convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? please raise your hand if you would. [ cheers and applause ] putin's revenge? u.s. officials, starting with the president, saying they are not surprised the man who challenged vladimir putin's leadership is presumed dead in a mysterious plane crash in russian airspace. ♪♪ good day. i'm andrea mitchell in new york. fulton county officials are bracing for donald trump's expected surrender tonight. as the former president arrived at the jail to be arrested for his alleged efforts to overturn georgia's 2020 election results. mr. trump is facing 13 separate criminal counts in atlanta, including conspiracy and racketeering charges. he has been ordered by the presiding judge against interfering in the legal process. we expect the former president to depart his new jersey resort later, arriving in atlanta this evening to turn himself in for a primetime booking. joining me now, blayne alexander, robert james, laura jarrett and frank figliuzzi. blayne, it was a chaotic scene there yesterday afternoon. we could see more of the same this evening? i'm sure there will be a lot of security. >> reporter: andrea, you are right, more security and likely more control over the situation today compared to what we saw yesterday. let me walk you through what we are expecting to see at the jail. this is the entrance right here behind me that we are expecting to see the former president use to enter the jail later this evening. we don't expect to see him on camera. that's different from what we saw yesterday as we saw rudy giuliani walking to his car. we don't expect any of that today. we think we will see his motorcade driving into the gates and then likely driving back out. we don't expect to see a shot of him going in. remember, this entire thing is under secret service control. we know this entire area is going to go under a hard lockdown at some point before the former president's arrival. that means nobody in or out. certainly going to be a different type of scene. what is different here, andrea, is that outside, we are seeing a more trump supporters. in fact, by my count, i would say there were nearly 50 or 60 people gathered at various entrances around the jail. the streets driving by with different branded cars. i spoke with a couple of them now. one family told me they drove from louisiana. we are talking about a nine-hour drive to come out here and stand in 90-plus degree heat to show their support for the former president. that's what we are expecting to see later tonight. as there is happening at the fulton county jail, we are seeing movement on a different front with some of the other co-defendants, namely mark meadows. that hearing is set for monday, the evidentiary hearing, to see whether this case can be removed from fulton county court to federal court, per his request. we know there's a hearing set. secretary of state brad raffensperger has been subpoenaed for that hearing. we are just obtaining those documents. i reached out to a spokesperson for his office and they said they are not commenting on that. all of this comes as we are watching that deadline, tomorrow at noon. the former president will turn himself in before then. the d.a. made it very clear, she plans to issue arrest warrants at 12:30 if people have notelve that includes mark meadows and anybody else who hasn't come. >> briefly, do you think there's going to be a mugshot? the sheriff said he would be treated like any other defendant. perhaps his lawyers might have worked something out when they figured out the bond. >> reporter: sure. i understand that that has not been confirmed at this hour. we do not know if there will be a mugshot for the former president. we have seen this parade of mugshots coming from all of the other co-defendants who turned themselves in. we don't know yet if that's going to happen for the former president. he will be fingerprinted once he is inside. his bond is $200,000. we know he is going to spend a small amount of time inside. when you look at the others, they have been expedited. we expect that to be the case for the former president as well. >> blayne alexander, thanks so much. to laura jarrett, let's talk about mark meadows and jeffrey clark. they are fighting to get their case moved out of the state system to the federal system. they lost first round, which was to prevent their arrest by that noon deadline tomorrow. talk to me about whether you think that they have a case to stand, both former officials, one was an assistant at the justice department for environment and very briefly acting ag, and then the other, of course, was chief of staff. >> right. their argument is as federal officials, this entire case should be removed to federal court. they made an argument the entire thing should be paused right now. they were seeking an emergency stay to make sure that they wouldn't have to turn themselves in. on that piece, that's what the judge said, no dice, there's no legal support for that. in fact, the law says the opposite, which is the state proceedings should continue on until the case is actually removed to federal court -- it hasn't been. they weren't going to win on that. they lost that piece. as for whether they will be able to succeed in the longer process, i think it's too early to tell. i think we will see a lot from what that judge does at the hearing on monday. the fact he moved so fast, asking for an evidentiary hearing, we will perhaps see the former secretary of state at the center of this, perhaps mark meadows might take the stand and defend himself. i think that hearing will signal a lot about the judge's thinking on this issue. >> of course, the counterargument would be, no other white house chief of staff has gone down to a state and argued about the election count, that it does not fit within the duties of the chief of staff. it was part of the politics. >> i think people can get their head around the idea that just because you happen to be a federal official doesn't mean that you get to move it to federal court. if you happen to be the former chief of staff and you rob a bank or you commit murder, that doesn't absolve you of everything to move the case to federal court. you have to be acting in a federal capacity under federal law. that's where the d.a. will say, by trying to pressure state officials, by soliciting a phone call to get someone to commit a crime, that's not acting in a federal capacity. that's the d.a.'s argument. >> how do you think willis has handled the legal hurdles and her warning, the warning he int witnesses, different from any other warning she attached to the other co-defendants? >> it's a bond condition. bond conditions are common. i don't blame her. if i were the proecuprosecutor, could be concerned he would go on social media or make phons and interfere with witnesses or co-defendants. i think the message that's clear that came from the judge, if the genesis -- the judge assigned the order, which is you have to behave. you cannot interfere with the administration of justice in this case. i think that that was a smart move on their part, because what they are -- what the prosecutor's office wants to do is preserve the integrity of their case. >> frank, i want to play a portion of what donald trump said in his conversation with tucker carlson. here is how he responded to one of the questions. >> do you think it's possible that there's open conflict? >> i don't know. i don't know what -- i can say this. there's a level of passion i have never seen, there's a level of hatred i have never seen. that's probably a bad combination. >> in fairness to mr. trump, he was responding to a question. it was tucker who posed the question of whether -- if there were a conviction, that there would be conflict. he did not push back against it. he is still suggesting that there could be violence. >> sadly, donald trump is right in his comments. there's an unprecedented level of hate and passion about the hatred. yes, we are seeing it manifest itself on known violent extremist websites and chat rooms. there's also a racist tone to this that moved from subtle to absolutely out there and brazen, particularly targeted against d.a. willis. law enforcement sources tell me they are worried about the lone actor that they can't find in time. the good news is that they don't see right now organized plans for larger level violence at the level of january 6. there's been a chilling affect from now over 1,000 arrests for january 6. something to watch for -- we have seen it in iowa last weekend with trump. the use of proxies. to the extent that trump doesn't want to violate any kind of protective order or get sideways with the judge, you will see his associates in his circle call out for force and violence. we saw it with matt gaetz saying, only through force do we make change happen. we saw trump nodding his head. >> laura, briefly, mark meadows, he is the mystery man as to, is he cooperating with one or the other? where does he stand, do you think? >> it's really one of the more fascinating parts of this story. the honest answer is, we don't know. i think more and more, including next week, when he will have to perhaps provide a little bit more color into what he was doing, we might get more of a preview of what his level of cooperation is. >> laura, it's great to see you and frank in person as well. robert, thanks for jumping in. thanks to blayne alexander in atlanta. joining us now, colorado republican congressman ken buck. congressman, thank you very much for being with us. >> thank you. >> i want to follow up on what we were talking about, your reaction to former president trump's expected surrender today with four criminal trials now looming, former freedom caucus colleague mark meadows facing possible prison time. that's a long way down the road. facing all of these legal complications. what does this say for the republican party? >> i think the debate last night was fascinating in a lot of ways, because he wasn't there, because today, obviously, is a really momentous day, surrendering to a local authority on a criminal charge like the rico charge that was brought. i think it is going to be interesting to watch. i think it's also a sad day for america, frankly. >> it certainly is, just historically it's a sad day just to see this happening. does the former president need to tell his supporters to try to avoid violence instead of saying there's a level of passion i have never seen, as he said last night, a level of hatred i have never seen, and that's a bad combination, to use his words? >> yeah, i think he does. i think he needs to tell all americans to stand down and allow the judicial system to take its course. we trust judges. we trust juries. we trust appellate counts. this isn't over until it's over. i think americans need to understand that the fact that a prosecutor -- i was a prosecutor for 25 years. i say this with knowledge of my own cases as well as other cases. the fact that a prosecutor brings charges doesn't mean there's going to be a conviction. it doesn't mean everything in the charges are going to be -- are going to come out at trial the way it has been charged. i think that sending a clear message and also having a surrogate send a clear message that violence will not be tolerated is appropriate. when you are asked by a journalist, what do you think is going to happen, it's really, as you said earlier, a difficult position to be put in. >> yeah. i put it on the questioner more than anything else. i wanted to make that very clear. talking about this debate last night, there was political chaos on the stage last night in milwaukee. one thing was clear, that no one emerged who will unseat donald trump as the frontrunner for the nomination. a question stood out, would you support him if he were convicted? should he be supported by the party as the nominee? >> first, andrea, i think that republican politics is not an organized political party. it's a disorganized political party. we saw an interesting food bite last night. i think that -- i have said previously that i will not support a convicted felon for the position of president. >> it was interesting that so many of your -- of the republicans on stage last night were willing to. >> it was interesting. it was equally interesting to me, andrea, that when asked if mike pence did the right thing on january 6, every republican said yes, he did the right thing, which indicates that donald trump did the wrong thing in their opinion. nobody -- they didn't point out, wait a second, there's a conflict here. on the one hand, you support donald trump, and on the other hand, you said mike pence did the right thing. i thought that was an interesting point in the debate. >> i'm curious about your reaction to ramaswamy's performance, he dominated despite his inexperience and maybe because of it. is that a lesson for so-called career politicians in both parties? >> i think there's an initial bump of his status as a millennial, his status as an outsider. ultimately, i think that nikki haley schooled mr. ramaswamy in telling the world, you have no experience in foreign policy and it shows. i think a lot of his statements that have been made on the campaign trail and in some interviews indicate that he is really appealing to or talking about some fringe issues that when he comes under scrutiny, as a serious candidate, i think those statements backfire. >> what about the person who places second, ron desantis, who really emerged unscathed last night? he was not attacked by the others and had a strong performance also by most accounts. what about the fact that he said that on day one as president he would send u.s. special forces across the border into mexico to arrest the cartels? technically, unless you are invited, that would be an invasion of the sovereign space of a close ally and neighbor, without going to congress. >> yeah. i'm assuming that ron desantis is making a statement for the opportunity to negotiate with the president of mexico, use economic means as other candidates said, and try to make sure that mexico and america are working together to deal with the cartels on the border. i don't think anybody -- certainly, he would need permission from congress. he knows that. i served with ron in the house. he knows that without a declaration of war or without the authorization to use military force, he can't just send troops across the border. it's a much more complicated situation than it appeared last night. it's a statement that at least shows his passion for what's going on on the border and how we need to deal with a very, very serious issue. >> aside from nikki haley, mike pence and a few others on the stage, there was not that much support for money for ukraine. there was little support for money for ukraine. i'm wondering whether you think that's a serious issue for house republicans. what do you think about prigozhin and his mysterious death? >> i don't think it's mysterious at all. i don't think anybody that has followed vladimir putin for more than a few hours understands exactly what happened in that situation. vladimir putin has had a lot of people flying out of windos over his political career. any russian dissident buy a condo on street level. it's going to hurt less going out the window. it's clear that vladimir putin is a murderer. it's clear that nikki haley and mike pence understand that. we had a vote not too long ago on the house floor concerning aid to ukraine in a national defense authorization act. it was overwhelming between the republicans and democrats to support ukraine. i suspect that ukraine aid will pass in the house, and i suspect that vladimir putin will be condemned once again for being a murderer. >> congressman ken buck, as always, thank you so much for being with us today. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. russia retaliating. vladimir putin breaking his silence amid growing speculation that he did order a hit on the wagner group mercenary chief who led the summer mutiny and is now presumed dead. that's next when we get back in just 60 seconds. stay with us on msnbc. 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. the head of the mercenary wagner group that led the military rebellion against putin two months ago is presumed dead after that plane crash in russia. russian aviation officials saying his corporate jet fell from the sky wednesday and putin's one-time ally, prigozhin, and the other leaders of the military group were among the ten passengers on the manifest and killed. nbc news has not independently confirmed he was on the flight or what the cause was. prigozhin was popular with the military. u.s. officials believed he would pay a price for challenging putin's power. i asked secretary of state blinken if the peace could last. >> if i were mr. prigozhin, i would remain concerned. nato has an open door policy. russia has an open window policy. he needs to be focused on that. >> joining me now is richard engel and john brennan who was cia director in the obama administration. richard, what's the latest theory? we understand vladimir putin issued condolences and has spoken about the death of prigozhin. >> reporter: putin has been silent until now. now he has issued this letter of condolences to the family of prigozhin. spoke specifically about prigozhin in the past tense, describing him as -- i have it in front of me. i have known prigozhin for a long time, since the early '90s. he was a man of a complicated fate. he made mistakes in his life. he was a talented man, a talented businessman. he worked not only in our country and with result but also abroad in africa in particular. he is clearly speaking about him as having died, sending out this condolence letter to family members, specifically talking about prigozhin. this is the closest we have seen to an official russian confirmation that he was on this plane thus far. all we have heard before this was the russian aviation authority saying that he was on a flight manifest and was presumed dead. what's interesting is not only does the statement from putin -- the fact that he felt compelled to make it, also that it was not -- it is relatively flattering. he complimented prigozhin's efforts to work with the russian military in carrying out operations. putin talked about how he was tasked with working for the nation and that he had done that. no mention in the transcripts i have seen so far of the mutiny itself, no mention that putin considered him a traitor. instead, talking about him being a talented businessman who had this operation abroad and a complicated past and complicated fate. what exactly -- the mystery is, how did he die? how did this plane go down? there are some conflicting reports. nothing confirmed. there are two opposing theories. one, there was a bomb that was put on the plane while it was on the ground in moscow. the plane took off and exploded or crashed or suddenly had a catastrophic incident and plummeted to the ground. i think that's the best way to describe it. about 30 minutes after takeoff. the other is that it was shot down by a surface to air missile. our own courtney kube is hearing from sources. it's not getting a lot of traction. it would have taken a large surface to air missile to reach 28,000 feet and that so far no heat signature or anything like that has been detected. >> director brennan, who would benefit most from prigozhin's death, other than vladimir putin? >> i think you put your finger on it, it's vladimir putin. he was going to exact revenge against an individual he considered a traitor in this very public and violent death. it's the handy work of vladimir putin. he waited to do this so he could maintain control. i think the actions he has taken over the past two months in terms of sacking generals and making changes within the russian military i think give him the assurance and confidence he had to be able to take care of this. the fact that he issued this flattering condolence letter shows how he is balancing a number of considerations as far as how he handles this. no mistake that putin's hand certainly is behind this death of prigozhin. >> i wanted to play what the cia director had to say in july when we were at the aspen security forum about putin. >> putin is someone who generally thinks that revenge is a dish best served cold. he will try to settle the situation to the extent he can. but again in my experience, putin is the ultimate apostle of payback. i wouldn't be surprised if he escaped further retribution. if i were prigozhin, i wouldn't fire my food taster. >> or perhaps take your own private plane from moscow to st. petersburg. john brennan? >> that's right. there was some catastrophic event on that plane that caused it to spiral downward like that. whether or not it was a bomb placed on board -- it could have been shot by a missile. i think there's going to be a fair amount of investigation, a natural -- analysis on the crash. >> john brennan, thank you very much, and richard engel, our friend with experience on this subject. the elephant in the room. the elephant not in the room, i should say. with donald trump absent from the debate stage, who was the big winner? you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." that's next on msnbc. tv: try tide power pods with 85% more tide in every pod. who needs that much more tide? 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[ cheers ] running up and down that field looks tough. it's a pitch. get way more into what you're into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. republican presidential candidates minus donald trump clashing nonstop for two hours last night in their first primary debate in milwaukee. vivek ramaswamy grabbing the spotlight. mike pence spoke the most, including vigorously defending his actions on january 6. one of the standout moments, the candidates were asked about backing donald trump if he were the nominee and convicted. >> if former president trump is convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? please raise your hand if you would. [ cheers and applause ] >> whether or not you believe that the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of president of the united states. [ cheers and applause ] >> president trump, i believe, was the best president of the 21st century. it's a fact. [ cheers and applause ] chris christie, honest to god, your claim that donald trump is motivated by vengeance and grievance would be a lot more credible if your entire campaign were not based on ven gengs ven grievance against one man. >> joining me are michael steele. let's talk about what happened last night. winners and losers. vivek ramaswamy pushed through and had a lot of air time. he dominated a lot of the conversation. >> he did. he took the trump playbook from 2016 and applied it to the 2024 campaign. let's be clear about what his role was, he was a trump stand-in. you would not have seen that if trump were on stage. what's he going to do? he claimed the guy is the greatest president. why are you running against him? what is your case now for the job over the guy you claim is the best president in recent history? we saw the performative nature of vivek. he did what he was supposed to do. he sucked the air out of the room as best he could. he got chop blocked a couple of times by nikki haley who i thought had, for me, the standout performance. the nikki haley i helped get elected in 2010 was the one on that stage. focused, disciplined, showing leadership. taking the risk i thought she did on a number of issues from the economy to abortion, certainly to the prosecution on behalf of ukraine, the war with russia. those two really kind of became the life in the moment. now you will see a reshuffing of the deck. watch where the money goes. they were watching their boy ron desantis fall flat on his face. they are having a heart wrenching moment this morning. >> you teed this up. i was going to say the former governor nikki haley, only woman on stage, one of the issues that's the toughest for republicans in a general election is abortion. that's how she took that on against former vice president pence. >> when you are talking about a federal ban, be honest with the american people. >> i am. >> we haven't had 45 pro-life senators in over 100 years. you can't ban abortions any more than a democrat could ban all the state laws. don't make women feel like they have to decide on this issue when you know we don't have 60 senate votes in the house. >> 70% of the american people support legislation to ban abortion after a baby is -- >> mike pence actually, tim miller, was not accurate. 70% do not support the federal ban. >> i think nikki haley was very successful if the audience was general election swing voters. there were tests last night of wisconsin swing voters who thought she did the best. i was telling you in the break, a conserative local people, they interviewed republican strategists. no offense, michael steele. they said she did the best. whether whether she -- how do you get over the 15%, 20% hump and start appealing to maga voters? she will run into a wall there. >> another moment was vivek ramaswamy on climate change. let's look at that. >> i'm the only person on the stage who isn't bought and paid for. the climate change agenda is a hoax. more people are dying of climate change policies than of actual climate change. >> tim miller? >> people asked me if the republican party changed or if i changed. it's a little bit of both. they have always had people that are climate denialists. when i worked for john mccain, the platform was for a carbon tax, for dealing with this issue, him and lindsey graham. this is a key issue. on that stage, no one -- not even the normal candidates said climate change is real. for vivek to say it was a hoax, it's a disaster for the party's brand on top of the trump stuff. >> ukraine was a major point of disagreement after vivek argued against more funding. nikki haley, part of the national security cabinet for donald trump, here is what happened. >> ukraine is a front line of defense. putin has said, if russia -- once russia takes ukraine, poland and the baltics are next. that's a world war. you are choosing a murderer over a -- >> i wish you well on the boards of lockheed and raytheon. >> you want to de-fund israel. you want to de-fund -- >> that's lies. there you have it. >> under your watch, you would make america less. you have no foreign policy experience. it shows. it shows. >> she wasn't the only person on that stage last night, michael steele, an amateur -- rookie was the word chris christie used. >> she owned that moment. she owned him in that moment. i think that speaks to the challenge that someone like vivek has. when you go up against people that have done the work, you better bring your game. he showed that the shoe salesman pitch was not going to be enough to get around nikki haley last night on foreign policy. >> michael steele, tim miller, thanks to both of you. power boost, the impact that the presumed death of wagner chief prigozhin is going to have on vladimir putin and the war in ukraine. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. ep rc (bobby) my store and my design business? 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prigozhin was popular with people in the military. there were divisions in the military. obviously, putin coming out quickly today with his condolences is trying to separate himself from a suspicious private plane crash in russian airspace. >> yes, strange, isn't it? we said yesterday putin assassinated prigozhin. this is a shot warning everybody. today he says, i have no idea how this happened. we need an investigation. he was an honorable man who i have known for many decades. that captures the dilemma how we need to think about this with putin and his war fighting machine occupying ukraine. on the one hand, of course, it's a warning to everybody, i will go after you if you try to run a mutiny like mr. prigozhin did. we said that. i think i said it many times on your show a couple months ago. everybody was predicting it. it happened. putin showed he will do these kinds of things. on the other hand, think about it for a moment. this is a guy that has been helping him project power in africa, in syria and most recent recently in ukraine. second, look at the outpouring of support for mr. prigozhin. you were showing flowers before his office space. you go on channels, there's people talking about him as a hero. what i want to know is not what the general thinks of prigozhin. i know what he thinks. he didn't like him. he is glad to see him gone. what i'm interested in is the soldiers occupying ukraine that fought next to the wagner fighters, what they are thinking. i have to believe this is demoralizing for those common soldiers. they lost a hero and they lost fighters that once were on their side. >> fighters doing things on the front lines almost as cannon fodder, where the russian soldiers were less well trained and not as willing to go in. they were able to recruit -- i put it in quotations, air quotes -- prisoners that joined the wagner group and were part of that operation. there is going to be an impact on the battlefield. >> i think so. remember, as we have talked about before, putin pulled the wagner group out several months ago. that's part of why there was the mutiny attempt. right? because prigozhin felt like the conventional armed forces of russia were trying to dismantle his group. they weren't there. their impact of not being there won't be felt, because they left before. i think psychologically, the idea that putin would just assassinate somebody that led soldiers to fight next to the conventional soldiers, that's got to be a demoralizing impact. it's hard to measure. we will not see it overnight. but i think in the long-term, it shows there's disarray. you don't kill the people that are fighting on your side if everything is in order, if everybody is liking what you are doing. the second thing is, yes, putin is stronger. but it's because people fear him, not because they revere him for what he did yesterday. >> ambassador mike mcfaul, thank you so much. this is a mystery that will perhaps never be solved. most people believe it's pretty obvious what happened. >> yeah. a pivotal moment. the optics of a former american president under arrest for alleged attempts to overturn a free and fair election. michael besh losh joins us next. michael besh losh joins us next. it's your business. it's your verizon. if you have moderate to severe crohn's disease skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor that can deliver clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. hi, i'm todd. i'm a veteran of 23 years. i served three overseas tours. i love to give back to the community. i offer what i can when i can. i started noticing my memory was slipping. i saw a prevagen commercial and i did some research on it. i started taking prevagen about three years ago. i feel clearer in my thoughts, my memory has improved and generally just more on point. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. when you smell the amazing scent of gain flings... time stops. ♪♪ your heart races. ♪♪ your eyes close. ♪♪ and you realize you're in love... steve? 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. . and we have breaking news from atlanta, the bond order for mark meadows has been set for $100,000, as we expect him to surrender in georgia soon, and former president trump, of course, will again make history after today when he surrenders in the fourth criminal case he is facing while a front runner in the presidential race. as we've learned last night, most of his 2024 competitors will support him if he wins the nomination, even if he is convicted. joining me now is nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss. it's great to see you. i've been wanting to ask you, as an historian, what are your thoughts about the confluence of events we are seeing this week? donald trump dominating the republican debate without even showing up, on the eve of turning himself in to be arrested on charges that he allegedly tried to overthrow the peaceful transfer of power. >> right, for most of american history, one tiny fraction of what trump has been accused of would have driven him out of the race. instead, here we are. he's overwhelmingly at the moment the republican front runner. you know, what has happened to our country, only 23 years ago, a moment that you and i remember very well, a couple of days before the 2000 election, george w. bush versus al gore, it was revealed that bush had had a dui offense in maine in his 20s about 25 years earlier, and i'm sure you've heard the same thing that i had from some of the people around george w. bush, they felt that just that one thing, that old dui revelation drove millions of voters away from bush, especially evangelicals in the republican party. that was 2000. yet, just as you're saying, here we are 2023, trump has been indicted in all sorts of different venues, state and federal, insurrection against the united states he has been accused of. interfering with voting rights in georgia, he'll be accused of today, keeping national defense secrets in mar-a-lago and perhaps showing them to people who should not have them. for the republican that's traditionally the party of rule of law and national security to look the other way for donald trump, this is why people are saying the republicans have turned into a cult. >> and you had them on the debate stage not just the audience, which was clearly all of maga trump people at least largely. but the other candidates afraid to separate themselves. >> they're terrified of him for reasons that we still do not quite know. what is the point of running for president if you're terrified of an ex-president doing something to you and taking you out of the race if you say anything that's faintly critical. i think we're safe to say we have never seen a situation like that ever before in american history. it's dangerous. it's totally contrary to what the founders of this country intended. >> now, it's not even clear that he will -- that these trials will take place before the election, but he could actually -- if he were convicted, if he were imprisoned, which is, you know, a real hypothetical, he could run from jail. eugene debs did in 1920. >> right. >> but debs was, as you well know, not remotely in contention for being elected president and was not a candidate of one of the two major parties. donald trump will be if nominated and, you know, can you imagine, andrea, how surreal this is that, you know, we've seen a lot of this stuff, you know, american presidential history for a while. look at what we've come to. this country has changed in a very big way. >> and we just have more breaking news because fani willis has requested that the trial begin on october 23rd, very fast schedule. october 23rd, now, of course this goes before the judge and the trump team will have their response, there will be a lot more with chris jansing. that does it for us for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports," "chris jansing reports" starts after a very quick break. break. 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