Because donald trump is going to surrender to Fulton County District Attorney fani willis tomorrow and be arrested and booked in his mugshot will be on the front page of possibly every newspaper in the world on friday. Donald trumps mugshot will be in the history books. It will become the most widely seen single photograph of Donald Trumps entire life possibly the most widely seen photograph of any american president in history. It will be the photograph that defines his life and his presidency for hundreds of years. That photograph of don trump tomorrow will be the greatest humiliation donald trump has suffered in these 77 years of his relentlessly humiliating life. Surrender is a legal word for what donald trump will do tomorrow. Today was a very busy day of surrender and losing for Donald Trumps codefendants in the georgia case. Seven of Donald Trumps codefendants surrendered today and two of them lost in pleadings they made to a federal judge about the case. And another codefendant surprised everyone with the request for a speedy trial while the other defendants seemed to be trying to delay a trial as much as possible. Here is todays timeline of the action in the state of georgia versus Donald J Trump and his 18 codefendants, 2 50 a. M. David schaffer and kathy latham surrender. 9 15 a. M. , Kenneth Chesebro and ray smith surrendered. 1 45 pm, Kenneth Chesebro files for a speedy trial. Two pm, Rudolph Giuliani reaches a Bond Agreement with District Attorney fani willis. 2 38 am funny willis files a brief in response to defendant Jeffrey Clarks Emergency Motion To federal judge steve jones asking the judge to infect block his arrest. 2 45 pm, District Attorney willis files a brief in response to defendant mark meadows Emergency Motion To federal judge steve jones, asking to, any fact, block easy rest. 2 50 pm, sydney powell surrenders. 306 pm, Rudolph Giuliani surrenders. For 38 pm, jenna ellis surrenders. Five people, judge jones denies Jeffrey Clarks emergency motion, 5 40 pm judge jones denies mark meadows emergency motion. 7 15 pm, just its Journey Willis files a brief in response to mark meadows request to remove his case to Federal Court in District Attorneys brief opposing moving the case to Federal Court, she raises an issue that i for 1 am embarrassed to say i had not thought of. The hatch act. The hatch act, sitting right there, didnt think of it, just returning willis quotes mark meadows in an interview while he was white house Chief Of Staff saying, quote, nobody outside the beltway cares about Trump Administration officials violating the hatch act. Which they did more than any other white house in history. Judge attorney willis points out, quote, the Defendant Unreservedly declares that all of the alleged conduct as to mr. Meadows relates to protected political activity that lies in the heartland of First Amendment and all of the substantive allegations in the indictment concern on unquestionably political activity and less if not covered by Supremacy Clause immunity, the charges would be barred by the First Amendment. However, the defendant does not cite or even acknowledge the hatch act, the federal statute that expressly forbid such political activity for Executive Branch employees acting or they need to act under their official authority. Having admitted that all of his pertinent identity is political, the defendant has acknowledged that all of the activity falls outside the scope of his duties and his color of office because he could never, as Chief Of Staff, engage in such political activity without violating a federal statute. We have a lot of legal ground to cover tonight, leading off our discussion, andrew weissmann, former fbi General Counsel and former chief of the Criminal Division of the eastman district of new york, a professor at nyu university, and cohost of the Podcast Prosecuting donald trump. Barr mcquade is with, us former u. S. Attorney and Law Professor at the university of michigan law school. They are both msnbc legal analysts. Also joining us tonight, amy lee copeland, a Criminal Defense Attorney and former georgia federal prosecutor. And andrew weissmann, let me go first to the hatch act, raised by fani willis, which is not something we have brought up in discussions on this program because mark meadows attempt to remove the case to Federal Court depends on his claim that everything he has done was exactly what a white house Chief Of Staff. Does this is the job. He was just doing the job. Fani willis is brief take serious issue with that. A lot happened today but i think you have your finger on the thing that is most important in terms of thinking about big picture. Its Mark Meadows Motion to remove this case and also if he were to win that or centrally battle immunity, that is important and keep an eye on. Fani willis is brief tonight i thought was a tour de force. I have to say i wasnt surprised in the sense that i thought that she would write the good brief but it was really superbly done. I would recommend people reading it. The issue really comes down to mark meadows taking action, was he taking action that was part of his office, under the color of office, or something he was authorized to do. By focusing initially on the hatch act, basically fani willis was able to say, you know what . He wasnt just, this was not something he was authorized to do, he was actually prohibited from doing this by the hatch act. And she used a finding by the agency. Theres an independent Executive Branch agency, which is the office of the special counsel, not to be confused with the special counsels office that jack smith, i was part, but the Office Of Special Counsel did an investigation and found that mark meadows violated the hatch act explicitly made that finding and there is a quote that you cited, where mark meadows said, no one really cares outside of the beltway. Well you know what . If i were to bet on this, the judge who is presiding over this, i think hes going to care. Barb mcquade, big surprise at 1 45 pm. Kenneth chesebro, the lawyer who may have originated the idea that to the Vice President of the United States gets to decide who the next president is, he is filing for a speedy trial. What does that do to this case . Its a really interesting move. It reminds me of the motion was filed by former alaska senators ted stephens. He demanded a speedy trial. Its very rare. So often defendants want to delay the case. Reasonably, i think, they need some time to digest all of discovery and to file appropriate motions. So prosecutors generally assume that finally have an indictment is going to mean many months before the case goes to trial. In the tenth stevens case, he demanded a speedy trail. He got one. As a result he was able to trip up the government in their case and with a lot of Discovery Miscues resulted in his case being dismissed. So it may be the chesebro is saying i would put the heat on fani willis. I dont know if she has the resources to try the case in a speedy fashion. My guess is fani willis would say game on, we took our time indicting this case because we wanted to be ready in case anybody wanted a speedy trial. But if he does get a speedy trial, it will be interesting. I imagine other defendants will be willing to sever their trials because they want more time to prepare. It seems like thats a more likely possibility. She might balk at that but, my guess is that most of the other defendants wanted to delay the trials, whereas chesebro says, i want to challenge the prosecutor to bring a trial within the speedy trial act. Amy lee copeland, the atlantic June Olkowski dissolution is reporting under georgia law the speedy trial demand demanded by cheese pro applies to all 19 defendants. How does that speedy Trial Law Work in georgia . Oh, lawrence, youre in for a lot less than tonight. So georgia has speedy trials, depending on the term of court. There are 49 judicial circuits in the state of georgia. 159 counties. Each judicial circuit has its own term of court. Fulton county is so large, it has a term of court that begins every odd month. So the august indictment was returned in the july term of court. The September Term of court begins the first monday and september. This trial, that the judge has demanded a speedy trial for, this will have to be trialed prior to the first monday in november, which is november 6th. It will have to be teed up and ready to go, no later than november the 3rd. What does it do to all the rest of the defendants . Probably will make them file a motion to sever, which the dea may or may not oppose. I think its an interesting gambit by chesbrough. You might want to be the canary in the coal mine. He might want to distance him self from trump. He may just want to challenge the d. A. To see if she is ready to go. But it was a bold and interesting move today. Andrew weissmann, what do you make of the Speedy Trial Request by kenneth chesbrough. Well, look, it is fani williss burden. She knows its her burden. She has to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. And i would assume that the reason for the delay, as barb mentioned, was that she knew this was a possibility because of this unique feature in georgia law, when someone demands a speedy trial. Its not that dissimilar than in Federal Court. But it is rare that somebody does this, as barb said. And sometimes it can play to an advantage. So barbaras right to point to ted stephens case. But what i have seen, when i have seen it rarely done, i think, even when both sides are bracing to prepare, the government usually wins on that. This is a really risky gambit for the defense to do. If fani willis has her ducks in a row, this is what trials are for. If the defendant is entitled to a speedy trial, then it really is, as barb said, game on. And the jury will decide and its fani williss burden to prove this matter. But it is risky on the part of the defense to do this. So this afternoon, Rudolph Giuliani became the, as far as i know, the very first former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york to be arrested, first in history. In the Bond Agreement that he reached, that he signed with District Attorney willis, has some interesting aspects to it. It says, this is similar language to what we have heard with others, the defendant shall perform no act to intimidate in a person or codefendant in this case or otherwise obstruct the administration of justice. It also says the defendant shall not communicate in any way, directly or indirectly, about the facts of this case with any person, with any codefendant. And Today Is The Day the donald trump announced that he is going to have a Fundraising Party for rid of giulianis defense in september. And so, barbara mcquade, i dont know how to square these conditions with those two codefendants getting together where they are pretending that they wont be talking about the facts in the case . Yeah, this stuff, you just cant make it up, can you . I suppose that within the parameters of this rule, of this order, they could have a fundraising dinner. But i didnt talk to them directly. I Just Announced it at a banquet with hundreds of people when i talked about what a sham this prosecutions. I imagine generalized terms like that about the prosecutor, about the prosecution in general, is probably within the boundaries that they can talk about. But i think with the judges looking for here is Witness Intimidation where somebody says remember the fact . Remember we all thought we won the election . Remember thats how it went down . Those are the kind of things are trying to avoid. But if he does this in broad daylight at a banquet or if he does it behind closed doors, it could still be a violation of this order. When it comes to fani willis, mess around and find out. I think she is going to enforce the terms of these conditions of bond. Amy lee copeland, this presumably is up to the judge in the case to enforce, judge mcafee, and he has to look at this and say, when they have this big fundraiser together, does this mean the forbidding of communicating in any way directly or indirectly about the facts of the case with a codefendant . Well, lawrence, it really skates the line. In the presence of council. Im wondering if everybodys attorneys will be sitting on the dais with them. That might be how they try to funnest this. Dont think that would make the judge happy, but thats what the order says. Andrew weissmann, this kind of thing is going to continue. These can didnt conditions are written as they are written. But it seems the boiler plate of these conditions dont anticipate people like donald trump and Rudolph Giuliani. They dont. But one of the things that happened today in your litany of events is something that we frankly havent seen as stringently in the other three jurisdictions. By the way, i still cant believe im saying that because were talking about four separate criminal cases against the former leader of the United States. But in georgia, one of the things that we are seeing is a real commitment to treating these defendants like the charged criminal defendants that they are and not thinking, well, because theyre whitecollar defendants, or they were political leaders, that they are somehow different and entitled to be treated differently. I think that is to be commended, that you are seeing them held to the exact same standard as everyone else. It will be very interesting with the bail conditions, which are fairly standard, except for the former president s, which, for very good reasons, because hes not similarly similarly situated or articulated, to see whether fani willis and the court continue to hold these people to account the way they would anyone else. So far i would say, so far so good. There isnt the same kind of pretense that these people are somehow different than other defendants in the system. Barb mcquade, Jeffrey Clark got denied his emergency in motion a fani willis is responds to his emergency motion. Made a little fun of him, suggesting the fly into atlanta was suddenly difficult thing to do. But the judge just denied it very quickly and simply, as i think we all expected the judge would do. And pointing out that there wasnt any legal theory at all advanced by Jeffrey Clark to support that he was asking for it. Which was fascinating, really, because its an echo of what Jeffrey Clarks indicted for, pushing things on the president and others at the time for which there is absolutely no legal basis. Thats absolutely correct. The federal statute explicitly says the opposite of the position that Jeffrey Clark was taking. Theres not silence. Its not arguable. It specifically says that while Removal Petition is pending, the state court case proceeds. It continues. Thats to prevent the defendant from disrupting things by filing a frivolous motion to remove a case to Federal Court. For good reason. He cited a civil statute. Thats a criminals not that criminal statute, to talk about how a trial could be paused. Shame on him. It doesnt seem like a good faith mistake to state the civil statute when youre operating in a criminal case. And so i dont know if he thought that the judge wouldnt read it or he just wanted to throw it out there and try to throw some sand in the gears to throw things down in hopes of getting this stay. I agree with you, lawrence. Its just another example of not just bad lawyering but bad faith lawyering. Judge dealt with these things very quickly. Were Gonna Squeeze in a commercial break and consider when we come back what the judges rulings tell us about how he might rule on that other question of removing the Mark Meadows Case to Federal Court. Donald trump will surely be making the same request in his case. 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Now you can stay reliably connected through Power Outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery backup to keep you online. Only from xfinity. Were back with our team of home of the xfinity 10g network. Former federal prosecutors, andrew weissmann, barbara mcquade, and amy lee copeland. Lets listen to what donald trump just said about just journey fani willis in an interview that was released tonight. A horrible District Attorney. From just a little while ago, from essentially atlanta, Fulton County, she said basically i dont have any right to challenge an election. The District Attorney, fani, fani willis, in atlanta, shes getting killed. Suddenly she is saying trump doesnt have the right to to criticize an election. Amy lee copeland, is that we just attorney willis is saying . Thats not what she saying. She saying i have a statutory duty to determine if there is probable cause. I think there is, i take him for a grand jury. If the jury, if the grand jury finds probable cause, then i seek an indictment. Thats what she has done here. She did this both at the regular granary stage, but even before them. She got a special purpose grand jury. So no one can claim that this was rushed. That special purpose grand jury, heard 75 witnesses and consider documents over the course of months. So mr. Trump has gotten twice as many procedural protections as most criminal defendants have. She doesnt decide whether or not he gets indicted. Thats in the hands of ordinary citizens who step up and perform their duties. Of all the states, only about 20 to actually require grand juries for felony indictments. Is different in the federal system. But the states, about half of them require grand juries. Georgia is one of those states. Mr. Trump was afforded the process that he is entitled to. Again, he got about twice as much process as most criminal defendants. Andrew weissmann, your reaction to what we just heard donald trump say . I think id like to step back and talk about the complicity of certain parts of the media with donald trump. The Alvin Bragg Case is really about the compliments of the National Enquirer and trump in terms of Keeping Information from the public. The Dominion Voting case wise where they won their suit, it was about fox news being complicit with, in order to increase their share of clicks and viewers with trump and his allies. I saw it in the mueller investigation. There was constant communication between Paul Manafort and sean hannity while he was out on bail, with the restriction to not have those communications. And this is, obviously what donald trump said, its just not true, it is factually false and its the kind of thing that should be challenged by somebody who is actually a member of the news media as opposed to some kind of Public Figure or news figure but not a journalist. And that is a real problem in terms of duly going out to republicans this idea that dont have is being prosecuted simply because he challenged an election. You know, he challenged an election in over 60 courts, he had his day in court, repeatedly, and he lost all of that, so no one has denied him that. It is that he then took the law into his own hands. That is what he is charged with. And you will also have his day in court as a criminal defendant to challenge the governments proof on those issues, like any other defendant. Barb mcquade, i know there are people in the audience wondering, where is the line, what is the limit of what donald trump can say about just attorney willis . And the conditions of his release include what he cannot say two or about witnesses, include what he cannot say to codefendants. But there is nothing in there about what he can say about the prosecutor. However, there is that condition the don trump and Rudolph Giuliani have in their release that says they cant do anything to otherwise obstruct the administration of justice, and so at what point does lying about the District Attorney become an effort to obstruct the administration of justice . Yeah, i think one of the things that both fani willis and the judge here are trying to navigate is, a persons genuine Free Speech Rights to criticize elected officials and those presiding over a trial and acting on behalf of the government would actually disrupting the trial and making things difficult, poisoning the jury pool, for example. I think on some of those vaguer kinds of things, theyre going to give him a fair amount of leash. Theres also a condition in there that he may not violate any state or federal laws. To the extent there is a threat, there is a call for harm, i think we could see a revocation of the bond there. But simply criticizing her, saying she is bad at her job, or that this is all about he is questioning of the trial, i think theyre going to give him a long leash on those kinds of statements. Amy lee copeland, a federal judge steve jones who very quickly just shut down, ruled against, denied the socalled Emergency Requests in this case by Donald Trumps codefendants about moving the cases to Federal Court, he hasnt yet decided that, but he decided against their emergency moves to get the Federal Court to intervene such that their arrests would be delayed or blocked. Is there anything in what we have seen from the judge today, in his two very fast moves, that gives you a sense of where the judge might be leaning eventually on the question of removing Mark Meadows Case, for example, to Federal Court . What his order gives me a sense of is that judge jones gets it. He knows this is an important prosecution that the federal part of it doesnt need to delay the state part of it if theres no good reason for it. And that he is going to move forward with all haste. There is a hearing scheduled on monday. Since its in Federal Court, it wont be televised. This is just town mr. Meadows motion. I understand secretary of state, brad raffensperger, has been subpoenaed by the the aids office to give testimony about the appropriate duties of the state elections. We have that to look forward to. Its hard to read the tea leaves with the judge, his order was forceful, was to the point, it was mighty fast, so we do have that. And he has a reputation of a judge that hears everyone out and here is the moat thoroughly. Andrew weissmann, denying the Emergency Requests dont necessarily, in any way, tell us what the judge might do with the basic request of route removing Mark Meadows Case to the Federal Court. I think thats right. I do agree with amy, it shows that he gets that its important to act quickly. His opinions were actually quite thorough, especially given the time constraints he was under. I think that it appears to me to be exactly the kind of judge that you want to be in front of if you are right legally and factually, because he seems to actually call it exactly as the law requires. I think one of the things that im interested in is something that fani willis wrote, which is that the burden here is on mark meadows, meaning that if he doesnt produce any evidence, then he loses. So this is a little bit of a point, but when the burden is on the movement, with mark meadows, he is the person that has to come forward with some facts. So it will be interesting to see how he does that, who he is a going to put on the Witness Stand . For instance, is he going to testify . I dont think he is. And so the question is, how is he going to go about proving this . I noted that fani willis, as aimee said has anticipated putting on her own witnesses, but she may not need to do that if you actually dont have anything to rebut that is prevented by mr. Meadows. Okay, everyones gonna stay with us across this commercial break. When we come back well have more on Rudolph Giuliani and his 24 hours of possessing the most famous mugshot in america until don trumps mugshot knocks that one out of the frame. Well be right back. Be right back. Guys, cmon mom, cmon mia [ Engine Revving ] my favorite color is. Because, its like a family thing [ Engine Revving ] made it mom leave running behind, behind. The new turbocharged volkswagen atlas. Does life beautifully. I brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. Those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks uuuhhhh. Here, ill take that woohoo ensure max protein, 30 grams of protein, 1 gram of sugar. Enter the 10,000 powered by protein max challenge. Woman why did we choose safelite . 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Expert andrew weissmann, barbara mcquade, and amy lee copelands. Today Rudolph Giulianis Criminal Defense Lawyer in georgia signed a Court Document saying the defendant shall not communicate in any way directly or indirectly about the facts of this case to any person known to him to be a codefendant in this case. And, after signing that, Rudolph Giuliani said this. I talked to the president today. I wish him well. I have every confidence in him. Amy lee copeland, isnt Rudolph Giuliani taunting the judge in this case with comments like that . Hes playing with fire. Its a bit of a surprise. I think most attorneys that i know, and im one of them, nothing but scared attorneys. We have a healthy fear in respective judges. That may not have been the wisest thing for him to say. Barb mcquade, i havent done full research on this, on what must be the hundred and 50 or more u. S. Attorneys in american history. But im not aware of u. S. Attorney, former u. S. Attorney ever having been indicted. Not aware of u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york, ever having been indicted. You have this job yourself. Reflecting on what this means, what this means that it could come to this for a former u. S. Attorney. It is quite a fall from grace to be charged. He is presumed innocent but i find it ironic that Rudolph Giuliani finds himself a defendant in a rico case. Remember, it was giuliani who made a name for himself by prosecuting mobsters and even the wall street financiers, route using the rico statute. And then for him to get his own comeuppance as a member of a rico enterprise i think is irony or karma. But its a very serious day. I think, as aimee said, all lawyers have a healthy respect for the law, for judges, and for staying on the right side of things. I think some people may take joy in seeing Rudy Giuliani fall from grace, but i think its a sad day to see any lawyer, at least allegedly so badly violate his ethical duties and the laws of the land. Andrew weissmann, your reflections on the indictment of a former u. S. Attorney in the Southern District of new york, considered the premier u. S. Attorneys office in the country. I mean, that is a great office. Its hardly, it hardly reflects the quality and caliber of the work thats done there, did you have somebody like mr. Giuliani disgracing that office and himself. But its also notable, Jeffrey Clark was an assistant attorney general. As, by the way, it was Rudy Giuliani and main justice. I think for all of us in this panel who were part of a really notable clause that we took very seriously, we took our oaths of office very seriously, it is both sad and disheartening, as barb said, and its also, though, appropriate, because when you are in law enforcement, the idea that somebody would not take their oath of office, their obligation to the public, seriously is something that i think is very hard to understand and grapple with, because it is so contrary to the day in and day out experience that you have and the loyalty and trust and patriotism of the people you work with, whether they are attorneys, or agents, investigating, so its really quite a betrayal of all of those people in the Department Of Justice and obviously the public at large. Andrew weissmann, barbara mcquade, and amy lee copeland, thank you all very much for joining us and continuing this discussion tonight. Really appreciate it. Youre welcome. Thank you. Coming up, mass murderer Vladimir Putin apparently murdered ten people today in order to assassinate just one. Thats how he does things. Russia says, you have jenny prigozhin, the man who led a mercenary uprising, threatening that amir putins control of russia, has died in a plane crash over russia. Just another day at the office for Vladimir Putin as a private plane mysteriously fell from the sky in russia, killing the man who led an Abortion Revolt against putin two months ago. Thats next. Thats next. New dove men bodywash gives you 24 hours of nourishing micromoisture. That means your skin still feels healthy and smooth now. Now. And now too. Get healthier, smoother feeling skin all day. Frustrated by skin tags . Dr. Scholls has the breakthrough youve been waiting for. The first fdacleared athome skin tag remover clinically proven to remove skin tags safely in as little as one treatment. Let Innovation Refunds help with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see fit. Rosie used part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. Clink dr. Marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. Emily used part of her refund to buy. I run a wax museum. Let Innovation Refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. Stop waiting. Go to innovationrefunds. Com you really got the brows. Voltaren. The joy of movement. I dont know for a fact what happened, but im not surprised. Do you believe putin is behind this, sir . I dont know enough to know the answer. Ive been working at all for the last hour and a half. The russian government says that a private jet that mysteriously fell from the sky, 100 miles from the moscow airport, where took off left all ten people on board dead, including Eugene Prigozhin who led an aborted coup against russian dictator Vladimir Putin two months ago. This evening, yale professor Timothy Snyder who was out of the country sent us his reaction. If you have to kill your rivals that means that you have arrivals. Putin has rivals he is not governing alone. He has to kill some of them. How is just going to look to the russian public . Well, prigozhin had a certain amount of popularity among the soldiers, it seems like as popularity among the russian people as well. Putin killed him in what can only be described as an extremely cowardly way, at a distance. Which reinforces the stereotype of putin as a distant figure. Sitting at the end of the tables killing people at no risk to himself. Prigozhin certainly one of the worst human beings on the planet, but he did go out to the field with his soldiers, and he was popular with them and with other people for that reason. He took risks, he was involved, had a personal stake in the war. Which is more than putin could say. So, i think it is possible that this assassination by one russian fascist of another russian fascist, could lead to some kind of political appeal in russia. Joining us now is ben rhodes a former Deputy National security adviser to president obama, an msnbc political analyst. Then, your thoughts on what we saw today . It is quite dramatic. Look its not uncommon for people who crossed Vladimir Putin to come up dead. But in the past, frankly, weve seen that take place with people being poisoned or people falling off of balconies. This is a highly militarized effort to take down a plane like this, with ten people on near moscow. Obviously, putin is sending a message to the rest of the russian elite to not cross him. He also decapitated the wagner group, because it wasnt just prigozhin there were some other senior wagner soldiers on that plane. Which has been across south africa. That is a problem he will have to solve. Prigozhin was the man who knew where all the accounts were, the relationships were in that effort. I think to echo professor snide about one thing here, lawrence, six months ago if i told you that we will be sitting here and there will be a mutiny, where prigozhin marched on moscow shut down helicopters, struck some strange deals and ended up being killed in this manner, i dont think that would suggest that Vladimir Putin is in maybe he is the strongman at the top of the rotten pyramid in russia, but he is certainly not the guy that coalesces support in ukraine cia director burns in july basically predicted this, it could not have been more expected, and out in the open. Prigozhin doesnt seem to have taken the kinds of precautions you would take when everyone out there is telling you this is going to happen. , the other couple of points to that ones prigozhin, he had been out in the field, he wasnt the worst fighting around it, at least, in bakhmut, in ukraine. Who knows what kind of that guy said, because for him to March On Moscow and to be hanging around russia, knowing, nobody knows better than prigozhin what happens to people who crossed Vladimir Putin. He used to be the kind of guy that might have been on the other end of these types of assassinations. But, i think you might have bet that he was somewhat indispensable to putin. Putin wanted the wagner guys who are loyal to prigozhin in the fight in ukraine. Certainly all these vast brawling networks that prigozhin runs from syria, to libya, all manner in parts of africa, disinformation campaigns. Mining interest. Prigozhin was the guy, again, whos at the center of the network. He might have thought that he was indispensable. Well, it comes to be the case every time, as he said, nobody is indispensable to Vladimir Putin. That is his message, you crossed me, you will die. The reality, if you are in the elite, things dont look too good right now. When russians watch that video of the plane falling out of the sky, why what is the cause, what is the thing that Vladimir Putin is fighting for . What is the cause that Vladimir Putin is leading the russian people in . Himself. Thats the only thing that Vladimir Putin cares about. Look, this is not the soviet union. This is not a communist party, this is one man, one rule. One strong man who has become delusional a mcmichael. Putin is appearing at a commemoration of battle, im sure he in his own mind sees himself as a continuing getting back to the russians are, empires, but it is a rotten kleptocracy. Founded upon Vladimir Putins own personal interest, and having all the all the guards who putin has kept against one another over the years. He is a Man In The High Castle sitting alone right now, afraid of who is going to be the next guy that comes after him. If you are an all guard you are thinking, i may have liked this deal when i had my yachts, and things were going well. I dont like much right now. So i think this is a rotten corrupt system, that maybe around tragically especially for the people of ukraine for a little while. But it is not going anywhere. Who knows how to destroy things, hes building nothing. Ben rhodes, thank you very much for joining us tonight. We will be right back. We will be right back. Inspiring music start your day with nature made. The 1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. Im saving with liberty mutual, mom. They customize your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. You could save 700 dollars just by switching. Ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. On the top of the pile oh. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. My father didnt know his dad. She knew that i always want to know more about my family history. With ancestry i dug and dug until i found some information. I was able to find out more than just a name. And then you add it to the tree. I found ship manifests. 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