Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704 : comparemela.com

Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704



destruction left by the wildfires in maui, what it is like on the ground for the people there needing most right now as the 11th hour gets underway on this friday night. good evening, i'm alicia menendez in for stephanie ruhle. we've reached the end of another week of high profile and historic legal troubles for former president, donald trump. he now faces 91 charges across four indictments. the latest in georgia, where he has yet to turn himself in. law enforcement there is planning for trump to surrender no earlier than thursday of next week. that's according to three sources familiar with the plan, they stress, nothing's official just yet. trump and the 18 codefendants in fani willis's case have exactly one week to voluntary surrender in fulton county. earlier today, georgia republican governor, brian kemp, spoke a lot about what he thought the georgia case might go to trial. >> in my opinion, this trial, despite what they're thinking for anybody else, it is not going to happen before the election. >> that comment poses trump's team is trying to push back the federal election in two nearly three years from. now today, we also learned that kenneth chesebro, the trump ally who allegedly thought up the fake electors scheme is with codefendants in georgia appears to have been on the capitol grounds on january 6th. that's according to publicly available video, and his former mentor. he previously invoked the fifth when asked by the january six committee where he was during the first week of january 2021. there's no indication that he went into the capital building, or was in any way violent. those lawyers declined to comment. speaking of january 6th, federal prosecutors are speaking attentions of 33 years in federal prison for -- the former proud boys -- his actions surrounding the insurrection of the capital. i mean, while it has been a busy day for the current president joe biden, he will come to leaders from japan and south korea to a summit at camp david, and announce agreements aimed at bringing the countries closer together. >> there's not much of anything i agree on with my predecessor, on foreign policy. his america first policy, walking away from the rest of the world breaks us weaker and not stronger. america is strong with our allies and our alliances. >> with, that let's bring in our lead off panel, jonathan allen, senior national politics reporter for nbc, amna nawaz, i'll anchor on cbs news hour and -- and former federal prosecutor, renato mariotto, who's also a legal affairs columnist for politico magazine. renato, we expect trump to turn himself into georgia authorities sometime late next week. what is that going to look like? then what happens after that? >> well, it's going to look a little different than it has in some of these other cases. the feds made some concessions, there wasn't a mugshot, for example. there wasn't a lot of the usual booking questions that you might expect. i think the reason given was that they knew who he was. he's easily recognizable. none of those corners are going to be done in fulton county. it's going to be circus. i think trump is going to revel in that circus. the challenge for him is that with all of the destructions he's trying to pull, at the end of the day, the this atlanta case, this fulton county case, it's ultimately going to be impacting the other cases he has. the january 6th case that jack smith has ultimately is a lot of overlap with this atlanta case. what i actually expect that ultimately he's going to find that a lot of the witnesses that testified are not going to be as enthusiastic about testifying. i think he's got a more difficult road ahead than him and his team -- >> let me ask you about that, renata, that governor kemp thinks this is going to be protected for into the future? >> i don't disagree with him in the sense that fani willis threw the book at donald trump. 19 defendants. every count imaginable. rico has been charged. that's a very complex sprawling case. jack smith had a totally different approach. fani willis is using a sledgehammer. jack smith used a scalpel. one defendant. very narrowly drawn charges. carved around some of the complications you might have with the first amendment on it incitement, things like that. didn't even include mark meadows in that indictment. not only could he have charged him, you won't find him referenced. i think he wants to use him as a witness. he is trying to get that to trial quickly. so, very different approaches. unfortunately for trump, he has to face both of them at the same time. that's the challenge for him and his team, to try to fight the war. >> john, the other piece of big trump news today, kenneth chesebro appears to have been outside the capitol on january 6th has also been indicted. but we need to know about him and the role he played? >> absolutely alicia, the important thing about chesebro has not only been indicted in georgia, but believed to be one of the unindicted coconspirators in the jacks mid-january 6th case. the reason he's so important in these trials is he was the guy who came up with the fake electors scheme, according to the january 6th committee. they had said that he basically gave step-by-step instructions to the fake electors on how to do their job. the new york times unearthed the memo in which he had originally suggested this idea to put together fake electors. even though he said it was likely unconstitutional, he believed it could create the kinds of delays and chaos that might help overturn some of the results. >> renato, the fact that he pled the fifth when he was talking to the january 6th committee about where he was in january of 2021, and the fact that now you have this video, i imagine investigators will be interested that chesebro appears to have been outside the capitol on january 6th. one of the questions it raises for investigators? >> well, look, it was just mentioned a moment ago, he was the architect of the scheme. a memo that was recently unearthed in which he basically told the trump team, i am not recommending this strategy. but here is a strategy you could employ. by the way, you know your lawyer is recommending something that's very questionable when he's not even willing to tell you that he recommends, or he would suggest or advise that you undertake what he has said in court, right? here, the fact that he's there in the capital suggests his allegiance to this plan. he's endorsing the plan, which by the way, you mentioned mr. -- a moment ago, a plan termed very violent. a plan that involved not only people being hurt, but some people dying, and actually plans for violence that day. i have to think that his legal team has to be very concerned. that's why i said that interplay, i don't think he's going to be a witness in that jack smith case for donald trump. >> for anyone who has lost count, this is trump's forced indictment. what has the reaction for leaders in both parties? >> alicia, i do think it's worth repeating the numbers you said at the top of the segment. 91 charges for indictments. i think we cannot say enough just how remarkable this moment is. because there is a little bit of a tendency to become the -- new indictment, new charges, we know the political arguments that come out of this. particularly on the republican side. this is really extraordinary. i do encourage folks to go out and read the full details, in particular, of the georgia indictment. it's a real portrait of an extraordinary concerted intentional effort to illegally overturn the results of a democratic election. but to your question, the political conversation has largely been the same. we've seen the biden administration remain at an arm's length, plus some, away from any of this. they knew don't answer any questions related to anything having to do with the department of justice or the special counsel's investigations. they want those to be seen, and continue to be seen as completely independent of any political motivations or this administration. on the republican side, we've also seen a pretty consistent response. while there have been a few outliers, particularly among the other republican presidential candidates, chris christie, most notably, a south hutchinson, to a bit, will hurd also to some extent. largely, their response has been to echo the response of mr. trump. which is to say all of these investigations are politically motivated. they are unjustified, this is the weaponization of government against the presidential nominee. i think we will continue to see that, just because they are not willing to speak up against mr. trump. to hammer him that hard, you said. also, let's remind those, this helps mr. trump. we've only seen in his laid among his presidential rivals hello with each indictment and overtime as each month has gone by. the fact that they would extend over several more months into another year or two, it works to his political benefit if history is a guide. >> john, that's certainly what we've been hearing from trump world. i know you've been reporting on that. i also want to ask you about trump, today continuing his baseless offense of on truth social calling the indictments bogus, calling president biden crooked. he also calls all the civil criminal cases saying, quote, election interference which is rich. is anyone in his circle telling him to tone it down? >> i don't think it really matters whether they tell him to tone it down. in fact, my experience with the people closest to him is that they tend to not do that, because they know it may tell him to tone it down, he's going to do the exact opposite. right now, he's in a political fight that is going in his favor. if anybody other than donald trump, if you're anybody who wasn't under four indictments, you would look at his lead in the polls right now and say that not only was he a prohibitive favorite, it's a wonder why anyone's competing. the answers to why people are competing is that they think it's possible he will fall under his own weight. i don't see trump peeling back. i do think that there is some level of his lawyers being able to encourage him to not make his case worse. we did see him call off a monday press conference, and they plan to go through some of what he says is the last evidence of fraud, of course there is no evidence that's come forward yet. he was going to do a press conference for that in new jersey, and he's backed off. it appears to be on the advice of his lawyers. so if anyone can get him, it's some of the lawyers. but as far as political advice goes, he's very quick to do the exact opposite of what he's told to do. >> where to see those listening ears employed. renato, it wasn't the most talked about legal news of this week, but i do want to go back to enrique -- you referenced him earlier. how significant is it that you have prosecutors seeking a 33-year-old sentence in a cut seditious conspiracy case. >> that is already an unprecedented case. it was an unprecedented indictment and verdict. that is a very, very serious sentence. that is not something that prosecutors asked for lightly. it really just shows you how seriously the department of justice takes that case. it has not received as much attention as perhaps it should, from a purely legal perspective it is truly an unprecedented indictment and conviction. i think what it says, the department of justice is trying to send a message. not just two mr. tarrio, and people who are associated with him, but to anyone who is encouraged or interested in committing violence or intimidating others on behalf of donald trump or other would-be tyrants, the department of justice is going to hit that hard. i really believe, alicia, that is one of the reasons we did not see the violence that trump was perhaps encouraging around the manhattan, florida, and others when he had indictments. you did not see groundswell of people that you saw on january 6th. i really do think that these sentences, these convictions are having a deterrent effect. >> on, that we saw president biden at camp david today announcing these agreements between the united states, japan, south korea. what else can you tell us about that? what is the white house looking to accomplish? >> one of the things to point out about this really historic meeting, which is the first time these three leaders have met independently of any larger international gathering where they've met on the sidelines. is it took place at camp david. which is an absolutely storied location. we're talking about the likes of winston churchill, -- who have been hosted there. this was intended to send a very clear message about a very strong partnership that the u.s. wants. the priority that this holds on the administration's agenda for action. that is a message really intended for china. and also to some degree to north korea. both south korea and japan are obviously within the danger zone, geographically, when it comes to north korea's rocket capabilities. but they are also very concerned, and if pushed back against china's growing geographic influence in the region. so mr. biden hailed this what he calls a new era of partnership, and a more formalized alliance working together not just on economic issues, but also on issues of national security. economically, that means they're going to share more economic data. they're going to serve as each other's early warning systems when it comes to supply chain disruptions, and the like. they will better coordinate on long term plans for military exercises, and this is really president biden squarely in his legal house. right on the foreign policy front at a time of international crisis. everyone has hailed his efforts to rally. all the nato allies in response to russia's active aggression and active war in ukraine. the pivot to asia, that's definitely u.s. administrations have tried to make hasn't really happened yet. it's a bit of a foreign policy goal. this is the biden administration's push to try to make that happen. >> that brings us back also to his original gambit for running for president, challenges abroad, challenges at home. a candidate who is able to take over on day one. john allen, amna nawaz, renato mariotto, thank you so much for getting us started. coming up, it looks like donald trump has decided not to shop at the first republican debate. we are going to discuss what that means for the front runner, and the rest of the 2024 field with carlos curbelo, and victoria defrancesco. later, president biden heads to maui on monday. where over 100 people have died from devastating wildfires. we are going to talk to the red cross about what they have seen on the ground, and what people need most. the 11th hour, just getting underway on friday night. meet three students all learning to save and spend their money with chase. freedom for kids. hungry? 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um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. >> after weeks of anticipation, donald trump has decided not to attend the first republican primary debate next week. instead, two sources familiar with the situation tell nbc news that trump is aiming for an interview with none other than tucker carlson. as a way of counter programming the fox news debate. as of now, nothing is formally set. back with us tonight, victoria defrancesco, the dean of the school of public service at the university of arkansas. and former florida republican, congressman carlos curbelo. victoria, for weeks now, we've been asking, will he, won't he. i haven't had a single person who said yes he's going to show up at this debate. ivan had a single person who said yes it i think it's a good idea for him to show up at this debate. but now that we're in the moment, where we know definitively he is not showing up, not only is he not going to show up, but he's going to counter program, what does that tell you about where this republican field finds itself? >> it finds itself with donald trump in the limelight, alicia. the fact that he definitively did decide not to go to the first debate just sets him apart, not just in terms of him being able to control his airtime, but alicia, remember, they are asking the candidates who are going to go on that debate stage to sign a pledge. one of the most important parts of that pledge is that the eventual nominee will have to support of all of the folks on that debate stage. and by default, this person will not run as an independent. donald trump is now explicitly signaling that hey, if he doesn't like how things go his way in the gop, he's going to carve out his own laid. in addition to again all of the media spotlight. this is just a win, win, win for donald trump. if it does end up being an interview with tucker carlson, and even bigger win for just that conservative base of media. >> carlos you know what the debate prep looks like for these things. you know there has been an asterisk on all of these republican candidates bait props. okay, if on the off chance, 0.001 chance that donald trump chose on, this is what we do. otherwise, we go with this plan. there's still reworking there tactics as we speak. trying to figure out, yes, he may not be in the room, but he is the biggest presence there. they cannot not talk about him. >> alicia, every single candidate among the many issues that people think about and prepare for for debate, immigration, taxes, health care, foreign policy, the biggest issue for these other republican candidates is donald trump. how to handle questions about donald trump, about everything donald trump has done in recent years about the many charges that donald trump is facing, the four different judicial cases. these candidates are taking donald trump 101, 201, 301, for a one, 501. because the answers to those questions could determine whether or not they can stay in the race. whether or not donald trump would consider one of them to be his running mate. donald trump won't be there, but in this republican primary, he's going to be the most important topic, and the dominant topic of the night. >> victoria, to be even more specific, you have a memo on the debate. allies of ron desantis laying out a strategy for the florida governor to defend donald trump from chris christie. here is what christie said about that earlier today. >> this campaign of his has gone from up here to down here. because people are really beginning to wonder what the hell he stands for. if what he stands for is defending donald trump, then just drop out of the race and endorsed him. look, the only way to beat someone is to beat them. if he thinks he's going to get on the stage and defend donald trump on wednesday night, then he should do donald trump a favor, and do a party favor. come to tallahassee, endorsed donald trump, get the hell out of the race. >> this is why chris christie's in the. race he wants to prosecute the case against donald trump. he also wants to call out the other republicans who are not doing the same. i think we all understand politically what it is desantis is trying to do. he's trying to stay in the trump lane, so that should trump's campaign for any reason fall apart, then he is ready to collect all of those trump fans, bring in perhaps some other voters, and speed ahead. that is predicated though, that he, on trump falling apart. otherwise, ron desantis doesn't have a lead. >> alicia, i would also argue that even if trump were to implode, both would go to desantis. what we've seen over the last couple of weeks, especially in the time that the candidates have been spending in iowa, the key is not connecting. in the meantime, all of the other candidates are standing to slowly but surely make votes. ron desantis is falling flat. he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. he wants to be trump, but at the same time, he wants to differentiate himself with trump. you know what, voters are smart. they, regardless of whether you like trump or not, they know who the original is. why are you going to buy a copy, if you can get the original? they are just really isn't any magic to ron desantis and that base that he thinks he has a shot. with >> i think that is part of what works rhetorically about what christie is doing their. he's saying, who are you? what do you stand for? if you use the lack of desantis's willingness to attack trump as a proxy for a bigger question about values, and about integrity, then it becomes more damning than is simply saying this guy does is defend donald trump. >> alicia, one of the reasons why donald trump has been so successful inside the republican party is because republican primary voters believe donald trump is authentic. they believe he's being his full self all the time. he probably is, to his credit, it doesn't mean it's good for the country. but he is being hooey is. ron desantis is trying to be the guy who wants to defeat donald trump, and the guy who wants to follow donald trump. it is impossible. following the donald trump playbook worked in 2018 when no one knew him in the state of florida, because he wasn't running against donald trump. now he's running against donald trump. you cannot defeat someone by following him. the other big problem that desantis has, even if donald trump falls apart, donald trump has two big goals. with this republican primary. number one is to win. it he wants to be the nominee. number two is to make sure that donald trump -- to make sure rhonda sentence is not the nominee. if donald trump does get out of this race for any reason, which i don't anticipate, certainly not anytime soon, he is going to keep that priority of making sure ron desantis doesn't advance. he considers ron desantis to be a traitor. he considers him to be loyal. desantis has a big problem. he really has to get out of the shadow of donald trump if he wants to have a shot at reviving his campaign. >> thus victoria defrancesco soto, carlos curbelo, as always, thank you both. coming up, many people in maui escaped the devastating wildfires with barely the clothes on their back. we'll talk to one of the helpers on the ground when the 11th hour continues. this isn't charmin! no wonder i don't feel as clean. here's charmin ultra strong. ahhh! my bottom's been saved! with its diamond weave texture, charmin ultra strong cleans better with fewer sheets and less effort. enjoy the go with charmin. i remember when i first started flying, and we would experience turbulence. i would watch the flight attendants. if they're not nervous, then i'm not going to be nervous. financially, i'm the flight attendant in that situation. the relief that comes over people once they know they've got a guide to help them through, i definitely feel privileged to be in that position. ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ if you have moderate to severe crohn's disease skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor that can deliver clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. >> president joe biden and first lady jill biden will head to maui on monday. the president will get a firsthand look at the devastation left behind by the wildfires that have killed more than 100 people and devastated the community. over a week after the fires, maui some urgency management chief has resigned. my colleague, miguel almaguer is on the ground with the latest. >> all right, we're going to have a follow spot down here. >> as the ground search for the missing approaches its 11th day, and the death toll continues to climb, tonight, maui's top emergency management official has resigned. citing health reasons, herman andaya, has stepped down amid withering criticism he literally failed to sound the alarm. >> do you regret not sounding the sirens? >> i do not. >> as the nation's deadliest fire in more than a century ripped through lahaina, andaya never activated the emergency sirens most often used for tsunami warnings. saying had he done so, he feared the public would have moved towards the fire in the hills. >> i will tell you that sirens have not been used for brush fires. >> maui counties website lists wildfires among the very hazard sirens can be used for. >> the siren is instant, immediate. it's going, off something's going on, i'm alert. it's sort of difficult to believe that you would be compelled to run towards flame. >> amid the growing frustration, a new nbc news review of public meeting records found andaya repeatedly downplayed the use of sirens, calling them a last resort. >> if i would have had access to that button, i would have pushed it. >> do you think the sirens going off would have saved lives? >> i do, yeah. >> the andaya's resignation comes as hawaiian electorate faces multiple lawsuits. alleging the utility is to blame for igniting the fires. the power company says it doesn't comment on pending litigation, stressing the causes of the fires have not been determined. it comes as the death toll balloons to well over 100, with more than half the burn zone searched. >> i'm heartbroken. i'm heartbroken. words cannot explain, because i keep hearing the of people i know that are still unattended. four >> is with the red cross and joins us from maui tonight. evan, what are you hearing from people who live there? >> we are hearing that they are dealing and living still with the trauma from the other week. that is one of our major points of assistance right now, is helping people, senior citizens, to young children, process the horrific things that they have gone through. just seeing these images, my heart breaks for these people who even days after are still struggling to find the words to express how they are feeling. we are doing our best with spiritual and mental, emotional care, to help them process this in a healthy way, and help them get back on their feet. >> it's hard to process what happened, why it happened, whether or not there was something that could be presented. as you heard in that package there, many people say they still have loved ones that are unaccounted for. in terms of physical goods, what are the biggest needs and demands in maui right now? >> right now, one of the biggest things we are expecting from people's connectivity. we've talked about this process of trying to connect people back with their family, their friends, their other loved ones. this fire didn't just destroyed peoples homes, businesses, community centers, but it has destroyed essential pieces of the infrastructure. so right now, as we are helping people come to our shelters who come and speak, and call our hotline trying to connect with friends, family, loved ones. we're helping with that connection process. but as you can see, the destruction is pretty massive. trying to reach people, some of whom might even still be in these areas, it's hard to get that connectivity through. >> evan, it's my understanding that one of the main things the red cross is working on is getting people from shelters to hotel rooms. why is that so important in this moment? >> while this is a process that we have worked with with the governor's office, county officials, local municipal leaders. as well as the residents who have been saying and spending the night in our emergency shelters. they want a more comfortable place to start their recovery process. we can certainly understand that the shelters with so many people is in for everybody. these hotels, motels, that people will be moving into are a temporary solution to this problem. we look forward to having the conversation with them once they are in a more comfortable place for them. we can continue the conversation about what next steps in healing looks. like >> a long road to recovery. evan peterson, thank you so much for your time. coming up, a former president of the united states has four, count them, four criminal indictments against him as he runs for office again. our good friend jon meacham helps us make sense of another history making week, the 11th hour continues. 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. >> a fulton county grand jury returned a trivial indictment, 19 individuals with violations of georgia law, arising from a criminal conspiracy to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in this state. >> it's a witch hunt, a continuation of a witch hunt. i have for them, if you look, this is not even possible, for, over the next couple of months, it's a disgraceful thing. republicans can't let them get away with it. >> our week began with another historical moment, former president trump indicted for the fourth time over attempts to interfere with the 2020 election in georgia. back with us tonight, historian jon meacham, who occasionally advises president biden. he was the author of and there was light, abraham lincoln -- out now. good to see, you have a significant was this for our nation? >> unprecedented, which is not a word that people use very much. the notion that the president of the united states would be charged criminally in a state for what is functionally a coup d'état is a remarkable moment in the life with the republican. and the question going forward for us is are we able to prove that we are a country that is governed by loss and not bipartisan feeling. that in large measure is on trial here. >> susan glasser pointed out that after a slow start, the american justice system seems determined to throw the book at the former president. how big of a moment is this specifically for our justice is, and how big of a task is this? >> to me, the big question is are we up to the task of democracy? thomas paine were even before the revolutionary war was well underway that in america, the law is king. we don't have kings, we have the law. as the drama unfolded, the constitution, the amendment at the constitution, an entire ethos and which we understood that not a single one of us was more important than the law itself. as it says in the bible, too much is given by what's expected. to the president at the united states, so much power is given, and it's expected that they will ultimately follow the law. even richard nixon towards the end of 1974, he broke the law but ultimately had a sense of shame and sense that he had to protect the ultimate constitutional system. former president trump, there is no evidence whatever that he is at risk of sharing that view. so the fundamental question we have here, and susan's piece got to it, is the justice system itself strong enough to adjudicate, to put these things to rights? that is going to require people putting partisan feelings aside in favor of the law. and that is, as they say, a very big ask. that is clearly what president trump is attempting to create. republicans can't stand for this. outside the most narrow kind of understanding of what american citizenship is, which is a narrow grasp that is seizing power and holding it, which is not what america is supposed to be about. america is not supposed to be that the rule of the storm always winds. the question is, can those who would follow donald trump to the edge of the cliff and a heck of a lot of folks who would fall off the cliff, are they willing to put an allegiance to the constitution ahead of their allegiance to him or a partisan victory? that is a big question. >> perhaps, to answer what is in some ways a rhetorical question, you have trump as the gop front runner. he's facing 91 criminal accounts and the four indictments, and the reaction from some republican voters is a shrug. the reaction from most republican leaders is a shrug. what does that tell you >> -- not just on the part of donald trump, but the idea that the shame would need to be shared, the idea that responsibility would need to be shared. >> it's a particularly gloomy moment. the way the constitution is set up, we need two functioning parties that are basically loyal to the constitution. we need two parties that will follow the rules that are commonly agreed upon, and we need two parties that see that politics can not always be a battle to the data. it has to be a mediation of conflicting interests to arrive to particular solutions to particular problems for a given period of time. that is what politics is. what has replace that on the republican side at the moment is the sense that every political dispute is in fact armageddon. it is good versus evil, us versus them, light versus dark. richard hostetter wrote to important essay's, in the columbia astoria, one called the pseudo-conservative and one called the paranoid style of american politics. his insight in the cold war years was that there was a right wing movement that saw that we were always a turning point, always forever about to win everything or lose everything. that is an inherent sense of drama that invest anything with great energy, invest money, gets ratings, clearly working in the polls for the former president, but that is not what politics is. politics properly understood is the way we conduct our public life, and the way that we have chosen to conduct our public life in the united states is according to the rule of law. and right now, a significant chunk of once noble party, the party of eisenhower, reagan and george w. bush, a party that did in fact put country above themselves. they are not doing that right now. you talk to republicans, i talked to republicans, they will say the quiet part in private, that we want to move on from trump, but you can't just say. this requires action. it requires a willingness to say, my team is wrong, and until we get it right, i will vote for the other guy. because let's be clear, as abraham lincoln said, human beings, he said man, man act on incentive. the only incentive, the only way to do this, and you mentioned president biden, he's my friend, i helped him when i can -- the only way to do this is to continue to have republicans lose at the polls, and i am not a democrat. i am not a republican. i have voted for people and both parties, but the only solution that i can come up with, and i am open to others is the only way to fix the republican party is to have it continue to use, and that is really, really hard. but i genuinely believe that it will be the ballot that convinces republicans in the and that they have to do something about this flight from reason, and this fly towards a one man, our man or the highway ethos. >> i appreciate that you reworked lincoln to be more gender inclusive. i have about 30 seconds left to ask you about what we watched at camp david today, inherently what it means for south korea, japan and the united states? this idea of putting america first behind us. >> well, president biden has argued for a kind of economic nationalism, a buy american who wants to rebuild the middle class here, a remarkably ambitious agenda that has not been discussed much but fascinating. he's been doing foreign policy a long, long time. chairman of the senate foreign relations committee, he understands a fundamental tenet of the policy, which is that the best way to have a friend's to be one. and the best way for the united states to lead is to be a staple for us to live up to our word, and for us to be as consistent and accurate as possible. foreign affairs is a little like the markets in that uncertainty and instability are a maze of good order and prosperity. >> jon meacham, i wish we were not living through so much history, but if i had to do it, i am glad to have you parse it all out. thank you for your time. coming up, it's a first for southern california, a tropical storm watch, if it dumped years of rain -- we are tracking hurricane hillary when the 11th hour continues. continues. about three or four years ago, i wasn't feeling as if i was as sharp as i used to be. i wanted to try something that was over-the-counter. i saw the prevagen commercials. after a short amount of time taking prevagen, i started noticing a difference-- that i'm remembering this, i'm remembering that. i stopped taking prevagen and i found myself slacking back so i jumped right back on it. i feel as if it's brought me back to the good 'ol days. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. meet the future. a chef. a designer. and, ooh, an engineer. all learning to save and spend their money with chase. the chef's cooking up firsts with her new debit card. hungry? 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um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. >> the last thing before we go tonight, hurricane hilary. they say it never rains in sunny southern california, well, the region is under its first ever tropical storm watch, category four hurricane makes its way north. storms are expected to bring significant impacts of the southwest this weekend and into early next week. antonia hilton has more on preparations. meteorologist bill karen as a closer look at the path. >> it's a once in a lifetime event that we are going to be experiencing. >> hurricane hillary is currently a category four storm with winds 135 miles per hour, though it's expected to significantly weaken, officials warned that there could be extensive rainfall, flash flooding and mudslides. >> fema has prepositioned personnel and supplies in the region are and are ready to respond as needed. >> a tropical storm watch has been issued for southern california for the first time. >> we have not seen hurricanes out here, and i've been calling my friends in florida to try to get advice on how to handle it. >> california as not the best track record with driving in the rain. >> some areas like death valley and palm springs could see 2 to 3 or two years worth of rain in 2 to 3 days. >> how will this impact on the west coast compared to what we see happen in the east coast, the southeast? >> in southern california, we have very dry desert-like surfaces that don't absorb that water, so as soon as the rain starts hitting, we will start to see flooding. >> it's been 84 years since a tropical storm hit here, a region accustomed to fires and earthquakes, now bracing for a different kind of natural disaster. >> we have tropical moisture from a major hurricane heading to 10,000 foot peaks in this are areas of the southwest. that's a recipe for a disaster, that's what they say that this could be catastrophic for some areas. the storm itself is at its peak intensity. it will weaken after this. it will move from what was really warm water, 90-degree water and handing over water in the 80s and 70s. that's when it gets cool enough for the storm to significantly weaken. again, sunday, the storm will be flying, 30 miles per hour when it goes to southern california. this will be in and out in a hurry but will leave its mark, especially in the mountains outside san diego, near palm springs. >> stay tuned to msnbc this weekend for the latest on the historic storm. and on that note, i want to wish you a good night. i am alicia menendez in for stephanie ruhle. you can catch my show, american voices, saturday and sunday six pm on msnbc. for all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late, i'll see you this weekend. ou this weekend. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. so, special counsel jack smith has ten business days left if he wants to beat fulton -- criminal charges but by then the eight on their, funny

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destruction left by the wildfires in maui, what it is like on the ground for the people there needing most right now as the 11th hour gets underway on this friday night. good evening, i'm alicia menendez in for stephanie ruhle. we've reached the end of another week of high profile and historic legal troubles for former president, donald trump. he now faces 91 charges across four indictments. the latest in georgia, where he has yet to turn himself in. law enforcement there is planning for trump to surrender no earlier than thursday of next week. that's according to three sources familiar with the plan, they stress, nothing's official just yet. trump and the 18 codefendants in fani willis's case have exactly one week to voluntary surrender in fulton county. earlier today, georgia republican governor, brian kemp, spoke a lot about what he thought the georgia case might go to trial. >> in my opinion, this trial, despite what they're thinking for anybody else, it is not going to happen before the election. >> that comment poses trump's team is trying to push back the federal election in two nearly three years from. now today, we also learned that kenneth chesebro, the trump ally who allegedly thought up the fake electors scheme is with codefendants in georgia appears to have been on the capitol grounds on january 6th. that's according to publicly available video, and his former mentor. he previously invoked the fifth when asked by the january six committee where he was during the first week of january 2021. there's no indication that he went into the capital building, or was in any way violent. those lawyers declined to comment. speaking of january 6th, federal prosecutors are speaking attentions of 33 years in federal prison for -- the former proud boys -- his actions surrounding the insurrection of the capital. i mean, while it has been a busy day for the current president joe biden, he will come to leaders from japan and south korea to a summit at camp david, and announce agreements aimed at bringing the countries closer together. >> there's not much of anything i agree on with my predecessor, on foreign policy. his america first policy, walking away from the rest of the world breaks us weaker and not stronger. america is strong with our allies and our alliances. >> with, that let's bring in our lead off panel, jonathan allen, senior national politics reporter for nbc, amna nawaz, i'll anchor on cbs news hour and -- and former federal prosecutor, renato mariotto, who's also a legal affairs columnist for politico magazine. renato, we expect trump to turn himself into georgia authorities sometime late next week. what is that going to look like? then what happens after that? >> well, it's going to look a little different than it has in some of these other cases. the feds made some concessions, there wasn't a mugshot, for example. there wasn't a lot of the usual booking questions that you might expect. i think the reason given was that they knew who he was. he's easily recognizable. none of those corners are going to be done in fulton county. it's going to be circus. i think trump is going to revel in that circus. the challenge for him is that with all of the destructions he's trying to pull, at the end of the day, the this atlanta case, this fulton county case, it's ultimately going to be impacting the other cases he has. the january 6th case that jack smith has ultimately is a lot of overlap with this atlanta case. what i actually expect that ultimately he's going to find that a lot of the witnesses that testified are not going to be as enthusiastic about testifying. i think he's got a more difficult road ahead than him and his team -- >> let me ask you about that, renata, that governor kemp thinks this is going to be protected for into the future? >> i don't disagree with him in the sense that fani willis threw the book at donald trump. 19 defendants. every count imaginable. rico has been charged. that's a very complex sprawling case. jack smith had a totally different approach. fani willis is using a sledgehammer. jack smith used a scalpel. one defendant. very narrowly drawn charges. carved around some of the complications you might have with the first amendment on it incitement, things like that. didn't even include mark meadows in that indictment. not only could he have charged him, you won't find him referenced. i think he wants to use him as a witness. he is trying to get that to trial quickly. so, very different approaches. unfortunately for trump, he has to face both of them at the same time. that's the challenge for him and his team, to try to fight the war. >> john, the other piece of big trump news today, kenneth chesebro appears to have been outside the capitol on january 6th has also been indicted. but we need to know about him and the role he played? >> absolutely alicia, the important thing about chesebro has not only been indicted in georgia, but believed to be one of the unindicted coconspirators in the jacks mid-january 6th case. the reason he's so important in these trials is he was the guy who came up with the fake electors scheme, according to the january 6th committee. they had said that he basically gave step-by-step instructions to the fake electors on how to do their job. the new york times unearthed the memo in which he had originally suggested this idea to put together fake electors. even though he said it was likely unconstitutional, he believed it could create the kinds of delays and chaos that might help overturn some of the results. >> renato, the fact that he pled the fifth when he was talking to the january 6th committee about where he was in january of 2021, and the fact that now you have this video, i imagine investigators will be interested that chesebro appears to have been outside the capitol on january 6th. one of the questions it raises for investigators? >> well, look, it was just mentioned a moment ago, he was the architect of the scheme. a memo that was recently unearthed in which he basically told the trump team, i am not recommending this strategy. but here is a strategy you could employ. by the way, you know your lawyer is recommending something that's very questionable when he's not even willing to tell you that he recommends, or he would suggest or advise that you undertake what he has said in court, right? here, the fact that he's there in the capital suggests his allegiance to this plan. he's endorsing the plan, which by the way, you mentioned mr. -- a moment ago, a plan termed very violent. a plan that involved not only people being hurt, but some people dying, and actually plans for violence that day. i have to think that his legal team has to be very concerned. that's why i said that interplay, i don't think he's going to be a witness in that jack smith case for donald trump. >> for anyone who has lost count, this is trump's forced indictment. what has the reaction for leaders in both parties? >> alicia, i do think it's worth repeating the numbers you said at the top of the segment. 91 charges for indictments. i think we cannot say enough just how remarkable this moment is. because there is a little bit of a tendency to become the -- new indictment, new charges, we know the political arguments that come out of this. particularly on the republican side. this is really extraordinary. i do encourage folks to go out and read the full details, in particular, of the georgia indictment. it's a real portrait of an extraordinary concerted intentional effort to illegally overturn the results of a democratic election. but to your question, the political conversation has largely been the same. we've seen the biden administration remain at an arm's length, plus some, away from any of this. they knew don't answer any questions related to anything having to do with the department of justice or the special counsel's investigations. they want those to be seen, and continue to be seen as completely independent of any political motivations or this administration. on the republican side, we've also seen a pretty consistent response. while there have been a few outliers, particularly among the other republican presidential candidates, chris christie, most notably, a south hutchinson, to a bit, will hurd also to some extent. largely, their response has been to echo the response of mr. trump. which is to say all of these investigations are politically motivated. they are unjustified, this is the weaponization of government against the presidential nominee. i think we will continue to see that, just because they are not willing to speak up against mr. trump. to hammer him that hard, you said. also, let's remind those, this helps mr. trump. we've only seen in his laid among his presidential rivals hello with each indictment and overtime as each month has gone by. the fact that they would extend over several more months into another year or two, it works to his political benefit if history is a guide. >> john, that's certainly what we've been hearing from trump world. i know you've been reporting on that. i also want to ask you about trump, today continuing his baseless offense of on truth social calling the indictments bogus, calling president biden crooked. he also calls all the civil criminal cases saying, quote, election interference which is rich. is anyone in his circle telling him to tone it down? >> i don't think it really matters whether they tell him to tone it down. in fact, my experience with the people closest to him is that they tend to not do that, because they know it may tell him to tone it down, he's going to do the exact opposite. right now, he's in a political fight that is going in his favor. if anybody other than donald trump, if you're anybody who wasn't under four indictments, you would look at his lead in the polls right now and say that not only was he a prohibitive favorite, it's a wonder why anyone's competing. the answers to why people are competing is that they think it's possible he will fall under his own weight. i don't see trump peeling back. i do think that there is some level of his lawyers being able to encourage him to not make his case worse. we did see him call off a monday press conference, and they plan to go through some of what he says is the last evidence of fraud, of course there is no evidence that's come forward yet. he was going to do a press conference for that in new jersey, and he's backed off. it appears to be on the advice of his lawyers. so if anyone can get him, it's some of the lawyers. but as far as political advice goes, he's very quick to do the exact opposite of what he's told to do. >> where to see those listening ears employed. renato, it wasn't the most talked about legal news of this week, but i do want to go back to enrique -- you referenced him earlier. how significant is it that you have prosecutors seeking a 33-year-old sentence in a cut seditious conspiracy case. >> that is already an unprecedented case. it was an unprecedented indictment and verdict. that is a very, very serious sentence. that is not something that prosecutors asked for lightly. it really just shows you how seriously the department of justice takes that case. it has not received as much attention as perhaps it should, from a purely legal perspective it is truly an unprecedented indictment and conviction. i think what it says, the department of justice is trying to send a message. not just two mr. tarrio, and people who are associated with him, but to anyone who is encouraged or interested in committing violence or intimidating others on behalf of donald trump or other would-be tyrants, the department of justice is going to hit that hard. i really believe, alicia, that is one of the reasons we did not see the violence that trump was perhaps encouraging around the manhattan, florida, and others when he had indictments. you did not see groundswell of people that you saw on january 6th. i really do think that these sentences, these convictions are having a deterrent effect. >> on, that we saw president biden at camp david today announcing these agreements between the united states, japan, south korea. what else can you tell us about that? what is the white house looking to accomplish? >> one of the things to point out about this really historic meeting, which is the first time these three leaders have met independently of any larger international gathering where they've met on the sidelines. is it took place at camp david. which is an absolutely storied location. we're talking about the likes of winston churchill, -- who have been hosted there. this was intended to send a very clear message about a very strong partnership that the u.s. wants. the priority that this holds on the administration's agenda for action. that is a message really intended for china. and also to some degree to north korea. both south korea and japan are obviously within the danger zone, geographically, when it comes to north korea's rocket capabilities. but they are also very concerned, and if pushed back against china's growing geographic influence in the region. so mr. biden hailed this what he calls a new era of partnership, and a more formalized alliance working together not just on economic issues, but also on issues of national security. economically, that means they're going to share more economic data. they're going to serve as each other's early warning systems when it comes to supply chain disruptions, and the like. they will better coordinate on long term plans for military exercises, and this is really president biden squarely in his legal house. right on the foreign policy front at a time of international crisis. everyone has hailed his efforts to rally. all the nato allies in response to russia's active aggression and active war in ukraine. the pivot to asia, that's definitely u.s. administrations have tried to make hasn't really happened yet. it's a bit of a foreign policy goal. this is the biden administration's push to try to make that happen. >> that brings us back also to his original gambit for running for president, challenges abroad, challenges at home. a candidate who is able to take over on day one. john allen, amna nawaz, renato mariotto, thank you so much for getting us started. coming up, it looks like donald trump has decided not to shop at the first republican debate. we are going to discuss what that means for the front runner, and the rest of the 2024 field with carlos curbelo, and victoria defrancesco. later, president biden heads to maui on monday. where over 100 people have died from devastating wildfires. we are going to talk to the red cross about what they have seen on the ground, and what people need most. the 11th hour, just getting underway on friday night. meet three students all learning to save and spend their money with chase. freedom for kids. hungry? 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um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. >> after weeks of anticipation, donald trump has decided not to attend the first republican primary debate next week. instead, two sources familiar with the situation tell nbc news that trump is aiming for an interview with none other than tucker carlson. as a way of counter programming the fox news debate. as of now, nothing is formally set. back with us tonight, victoria defrancesco, the dean of the school of public service at the university of arkansas. and former florida republican, congressman carlos curbelo. victoria, for weeks now, we've been asking, will he, won't he. i haven't had a single person who said yes he's going to show up at this debate. ivan had a single person who said yes it i think it's a good idea for him to show up at this debate. but now that we're in the moment, where we know definitively he is not showing up, not only is he not going to show up, but he's going to counter program, what does that tell you about where this republican field finds itself? >> it finds itself with donald trump in the limelight, alicia. the fact that he definitively did decide not to go to the first debate just sets him apart, not just in terms of him being able to control his airtime, but alicia, remember, they are asking the candidates who are going to go on that debate stage to sign a pledge. one of the most important parts of that pledge is that the eventual nominee will have to support of all of the folks on that debate stage. and by default, this person will not run as an independent. donald trump is now explicitly signaling that hey, if he doesn't like how things go his way in the gop, he's going to carve out his own laid. in addition to again all of the media spotlight. this is just a win, win, win for donald trump. if it does end up being an interview with tucker carlson, and even bigger win for just that conservative base of media. >> carlos you know what the debate prep looks like for these things. you know there has been an asterisk on all of these republican candidates bait props. okay, if on the off chance, 0.001 chance that donald trump chose on, this is what we do. otherwise, we go with this plan. there's still reworking there tactics as we speak. trying to figure out, yes, he may not be in the room, but he is the biggest presence there. they cannot not talk about him. >> alicia, every single candidate among the many issues that people think about and prepare for for debate, immigration, taxes, health care, foreign policy, the biggest issue for these other republican candidates is donald trump. how to handle questions about donald trump, about everything donald trump has done in recent years about the many charges that donald trump is facing, the four different judicial cases. these candidates are taking donald trump 101, 201, 301, for a one, 501. because the answers to those questions could determine whether or not they can stay in the race. whether or not donald trump would consider one of them to be his running mate. donald trump won't be there, but in this republican primary, he's going to be the most important topic, and the dominant topic of the night. >> victoria, to be even more specific, you have a memo on the debate. allies of ron desantis laying out a strategy for the florida governor to defend donald trump from chris christie. here is what christie said about that earlier today. >> this campaign of his has gone from up here to down here. because people are really beginning to wonder what the hell he stands for. if what he stands for is defending donald trump, then just drop out of the race and endorsed him. look, the only way to beat someone is to beat them. if he thinks he's going to get on the stage and defend donald trump on wednesday night, then he should do donald trump a favor, and do a party favor. come to tallahassee, endorsed donald trump, get the hell out of the race. >> this is why chris christie's in the. race he wants to prosecute the case against donald trump. he also wants to call out the other republicans who are not doing the same. i think we all understand politically what it is desantis is trying to do. he's trying to stay in the trump lane, so that should trump's campaign for any reason fall apart, then he is ready to collect all of those trump fans, bring in perhaps some other voters, and speed ahead. that is predicated though, that he, on trump falling apart. otherwise, ron desantis doesn't have a lead. >> alicia, i would also argue that even if trump were to implode, both would go to desantis. what we've seen over the last couple of weeks, especially in the time that the candidates have been spending in iowa, the key is not connecting. in the meantime, all of the other candidates are standing to slowly but surely make votes. ron desantis is falling flat. he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. he wants to be trump, but at the same time, he wants to differentiate himself with trump. you know what, voters are smart. they, regardless of whether you like trump or not, they know who the original is. why are you going to buy a copy, if you can get the original? they are just really isn't any magic to ron desantis and that base that he thinks he has a shot. with >> i think that is part of what works rhetorically about what christie is doing their. he's saying, who are you? what do you stand for? if you use the lack of desantis's willingness to attack trump as a proxy for a bigger question about values, and about integrity, then it becomes more damning than is simply saying this guy does is defend donald trump. >> alicia, one of the reasons why donald trump has been so successful inside the republican party is because republican primary voters believe donald trump is authentic. they believe he's being his full self all the time. he probably is, to his credit, it doesn't mean it's good for the country. but he is being hooey is. ron desantis is trying to be the guy who wants to defeat donald trump, and the guy who wants to follow donald trump. it is impossible. following the donald trump playbook worked in 2018 when no one knew him in the state of florida, because he wasn't running against donald trump. now he's running against donald trump. you cannot defeat someone by following him. the other big problem that desantis has, even if donald trump falls apart, donald trump has two big goals. with this republican primary. number one is to win. it he wants to be the nominee. number two is to make sure that donald trump -- to make sure rhonda sentence is not the nominee. if donald trump does get out of this race for any reason, which i don't anticipate, certainly not anytime soon, he is going to keep that priority of making sure ron desantis doesn't advance. he considers ron desantis to be a traitor. he considers him to be loyal. desantis has a big problem. he really has to get out of the shadow of donald trump if he wants to have a shot at reviving his campaign. >> thus victoria defrancesco soto, carlos curbelo, as always, thank you both. coming up, many people in maui escaped the devastating wildfires with barely the clothes on their back. we'll talk to one of the helpers on the ground when the 11th hour continues. this isn't charmin! no wonder i don't feel as clean. here's charmin ultra strong. ahhh! my bottom's been saved! with its diamond weave texture, charmin ultra strong cleans better with fewer sheets and less effort. enjoy the go with charmin. i remember when i first started flying, and we would experience turbulence. i would watch the flight attendants. if they're not nervous, then i'm not going to be nervous. financially, i'm the flight attendant in that situation. the relief that comes over people once they know they've got a guide to help them through, i definitely feel privileged to be in that position. ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ if you have moderate to severe crohn's disease skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor that can deliver clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. >> president joe biden and first lady jill biden will head to maui on monday. the president will get a firsthand look at the devastation left behind by the wildfires that have killed more than 100 people and devastated the community. over a week after the fires, maui some urgency management chief has resigned. my colleague, miguel almaguer is on the ground with the latest. >> all right, we're going to have a follow spot down here. >> as the ground search for the missing approaches its 11th day, and the death toll continues to climb, tonight, maui's top emergency management official has resigned. citing health reasons, herman andaya, has stepped down amid withering criticism he literally failed to sound the alarm. >> do you regret not sounding the sirens? >> i do not. >> as the nation's deadliest fire in more than a century ripped through lahaina, andaya never activated the emergency sirens most often used for tsunami warnings. saying had he done so, he feared the public would have moved towards the fire in the hills. >> i will tell you that sirens have not been used for brush fires. >> maui counties website lists wildfires among the very hazard sirens can be used for. >> the siren is instant, immediate. it's going, off something's going on, i'm alert. it's sort of difficult to believe that you would be compelled to run towards flame. >> amid the growing frustration, a new nbc news review of public meeting records found andaya repeatedly downplayed the use of sirens, calling them a last resort. >> if i would have had access to that button, i would have pushed it. >> do you think the sirens going off would have saved lives? >> i do, yeah. >> the andaya's resignation comes as hawaiian electorate faces multiple lawsuits. alleging the utility is to blame for igniting the fires. the power company says it doesn't comment on pending litigation, stressing the causes of the fires have not been determined. it comes as the death toll balloons to well over 100, with more than half the burn zone searched. >> i'm heartbroken. i'm heartbroken. words cannot explain, because i keep hearing the of people i know that are still unattended. four >> is with the red cross and joins us from maui tonight. evan, what are you hearing from people who live there? >> we are hearing that they are dealing and living still with the trauma from the other week. that is one of our major points of assistance right now, is helping people, senior citizens, to young children, process the horrific things that they have gone through. just seeing these images, my heart breaks for these people who even days after are still struggling to find the words to express how they are feeling. we are doing our best with spiritual and mental, emotional care, to help them process this in a healthy way, and help them get back on their feet. >> it's hard to process what happened, why it happened, whether or not there was something that could be presented. as you heard in that package there, many people say they still have loved ones that are unaccounted for. in terms of physical goods, what are the biggest needs and demands in maui right now? >> right now, one of the biggest things we are expecting from people's connectivity. we've talked about this process of trying to connect people back with their family, their friends, their other loved ones. this fire didn't just destroyed peoples homes, businesses, community centers, but it has destroyed essential pieces of the infrastructure. so right now, as we are helping people come to our shelters who come and speak, and call our hotline trying to connect with friends, family, loved ones. we're helping with that connection process. but as you can see, the destruction is pretty massive. trying to reach people, some of whom might even still be in these areas, it's hard to get that connectivity through. >> evan, it's my understanding that one of the main things the red cross is working on is getting people from shelters to hotel rooms. why is that so important in this moment? >> while this is a process that we have worked with with the governor's office, county officials, local municipal leaders. as well as the residents who have been saying and spending the night in our emergency shelters. they want a more comfortable place to start their recovery process. we can certainly understand that the shelters with so many people is in for everybody. these hotels, motels, that people will be moving into are a temporary solution to this problem. we look forward to having the conversation with them once they are in a more comfortable place for them. we can continue the conversation about what next steps in healing looks. like >> a long road to recovery. evan peterson, thank you so much for your time. coming up, a former president of the united states has four, count them, four criminal indictments against him as he runs for office again. our good friend jon meacham helps us make sense of another history making week, the 11th hour continues. 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. >> a fulton county grand jury returned a trivial indictment, 19 individuals with violations of georgia law, arising from a criminal conspiracy to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in this state. >> it's a witch hunt, a continuation of a witch hunt. i have for them, if you look, this is not even possible, for, over the next couple of months, it's a disgraceful thing. republicans can't let them get away with it. >> our week began with another historical moment, former president trump indicted for the fourth time over attempts to interfere with the 2020 election in georgia. back with us tonight, historian jon meacham, who occasionally advises president biden. he was the author of and there was light, abraham lincoln -- out now. good to see, you have a significant was this for our nation? >> unprecedented, which is not a word that people use very much. the notion that the president of the united states would be charged criminally in a state for what is functionally a coup d'état is a remarkable moment in the life with the republican. and the question going forward for us is are we able to prove that we are a country that is governed by loss and not bipartisan feeling. that in large measure is on trial here. >> susan glasser pointed out that after a slow start, the american justice system seems determined to throw the book at the former president. how big of a moment is this specifically for our justice is, and how big of a task is this? >> to me, the big question is are we up to the task of democracy? thomas paine were even before the revolutionary war was well underway that in america, the law is king. we don't have kings, we have the law. as the drama unfolded, the constitution, the amendment at the constitution, an entire ethos and which we understood that not a single one of us was more important than the law itself. as it says in the bible, too much is given by what's expected. to the president at the united states, so much power is given, and it's expected that they will ultimately follow the law. even richard nixon towards the end of 1974, he broke the law but ultimately had a sense of shame and sense that he had to protect the ultimate constitutional system. former president trump, there is no evidence whatever that he is at risk of sharing that view. so the fundamental question we have here, and susan's piece got to it, is the justice system itself strong enough to adjudicate, to put these things to rights? that is going to require people putting partisan feelings aside in favor of the law. and that is, as they say, a very big ask. that is clearly what president trump is attempting to create. republicans can't stand for this. outside the most narrow kind of understanding of what american citizenship is, which is a narrow grasp that is seizing power and holding it, which is not what america is supposed to be about. america is not supposed to be that the rule of the storm always winds. the question is, can those who would follow donald trump to the edge of the cliff and a heck of a lot of folks who would fall off the cliff, are they willing to put an allegiance to the constitution ahead of their allegiance to him or a partisan victory? that is a big question. >> perhaps, to answer what is in some ways a rhetorical question, you have trump as the gop front runner. he's facing 91 criminal accounts and the four indictments, and the reaction from some republican voters is a shrug. the reaction from most republican leaders is a shrug. what does that tell you >> -- not just on the part of donald trump, but the idea that the shame would need to be shared, the idea that responsibility would need to be shared. >> it's a particularly gloomy moment. the way the constitution is set up, we need two functioning parties that are basically loyal to the constitution. we need two parties that will follow the rules that are commonly agreed upon, and we need two parties that see that politics can not always be a battle to the data. it has to be a mediation of conflicting interests to arrive to particular solutions to particular problems for a given period of time. that is what politics is. what has replace that on the republican side at the moment is the sense that every political dispute is in fact armageddon. it is good versus evil, us versus them, light versus dark. richard hostetter wrote to important essay's, in the columbia astoria, one called the pseudo-conservative and one called the paranoid style of american politics. his insight in the cold war years was that there was a right wing movement that saw that we were always a turning point, always forever about to win everything or lose everything. that is an inherent sense of drama that invest anything with great energy, invest money, gets ratings, clearly working in the polls for the former president, but that is not what politics is. politics properly understood is the way we conduct our public life, and the way that we have chosen to conduct our public life in the united states is according to the rule of law. and right now, a significant chunk of once noble party, the party of eisenhower, reagan and george w. bush, a party that did in fact put country above themselves. they are not doing that right now. you talk to republicans, i talked to republicans, they will say the quiet part in private, that we want to move on from trump, but you can't just say. this requires action. it requires a willingness to say, my team is wrong, and until we get it right, i will vote for the other guy. because let's be clear, as abraham lincoln said, human beings, he said man, man act on incentive. the only incentive, the only way to do this, and you mentioned president biden, he's my friend, i helped him when i can -- the only way to do this is to continue to have republicans lose at the polls, and i am not a democrat. i am not a republican. i have voted for people and both parties, but the only solution that i can come up with, and i am open to others is the only way to fix the republican party is to have it continue to use, and that is really, really hard. but i genuinely believe that it will be the ballot that convinces republicans in the and that they have to do something about this flight from reason, and this fly towards a one man, our man or the highway ethos. >> i appreciate that you reworked lincoln to be more gender inclusive. i have about 30 seconds left to ask you about what we watched at camp david today, inherently what it means for south korea, japan and the united states? this idea of putting america first behind us. >> well, president biden has argued for a kind of economic nationalism, a buy american who wants to rebuild the middle class here, a remarkably ambitious agenda that has not been discussed much but fascinating. he's been doing foreign policy a long, long time. chairman of the senate foreign relations committee, he understands a fundamental tenet of the policy, which is that the best way to have a friend's to be one. and the best way for the united states to lead is to be a staple for us to live up to our word, and for us to be as consistent and accurate as possible. foreign affairs is a little like the markets in that uncertainty and instability are a maze of good order and prosperity. >> jon meacham, i wish we were not living through so much history, but if i had to do it, i am glad to have you parse it all out. thank you for your time. coming up, it's a first for southern california, a tropical storm watch, if it dumped years of rain -- we are tracking hurricane hillary when the 11th hour continues. continues. about three or four years ago, i wasn't feeling as if i was as sharp as i used to be. i wanted to try something that was over-the-counter. i saw the prevagen commercials. after a short amount of time taking prevagen, i started noticing a difference-- that i'm remembering this, i'm remembering that. i stopped taking prevagen and i found myself slacking back so i jumped right back on it. i feel as if it's brought me back to the good 'ol days. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. meet the future. a chef. a designer. and, ooh, an engineer. all learning to save and spend their money with chase. the chef's cooking up firsts with her new debit card. hungry? 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um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. >> the last thing before we go tonight, hurricane hilary. they say it never rains in sunny southern california, well, the region is under its first ever tropical storm watch, category four hurricane makes its way north. storms are expected to bring significant impacts of the southwest this weekend and into early next week. antonia hilton has more on preparations. meteorologist bill karen as a closer look at the path. >> it's a once in a lifetime event that we are going to be experiencing. >> hurricane hillary is currently a category four storm with winds 135 miles per hour, though it's expected to significantly weaken, officials warned that there could be extensive rainfall, flash flooding and mudslides. >> fema has prepositioned personnel and supplies in the region are and are ready to respond as needed. >> a tropical storm watch has been issued for southern california for the first time. >> we have not seen hurricanes out here, and i've been calling my friends in florida to try to get advice on how to handle it. >> california as not the best track record with driving in the rain. >> some areas like death valley and palm springs could see 2 to 3 or two years worth of rain in 2 to 3 days. >> how will this impact on the west coast compared to what we see happen in the east coast, the southeast? >> in southern california, we have very dry desert-like surfaces that don't absorb that water, so as soon as the rain starts hitting, we will start to see flooding. >> it's been 84 years since a tropical storm hit here, a region accustomed to fires and earthquakes, now bracing for a different kind of natural disaster. >> we have tropical moisture from a major hurricane heading to 10,000 foot peaks in this are areas of the southwest. that's a recipe for a disaster, that's what they say that this could be catastrophic for some areas. the storm itself is at its peak intensity. it will weaken after this. it will move from what was really warm water, 90-degree water and handing over water in the 80s and 70s. that's when it gets cool enough for the storm to significantly weaken. again, sunday, the storm will be flying, 30 miles per hour when it goes to southern california. this will be in and out in a hurry but will leave its mark, especially in the mountains outside san diego, near palm springs. >> stay tuned to msnbc this weekend for the latest on the historic storm. and on that note, i want to wish you a good night. i am alicia menendez in for stephanie ruhle. you can catch my show, american voices, saturday and sunday six pm on msnbc. for all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late, i'll see you this weekend. ou this weekend. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. so, special counsel jack smith has ten business days left if he wants to beat fulton -- criminal charges but by then the eight on their, funny

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