us this evening. law enforcement officials expect donald trump to turn himself in a fulton county jail in atlanta, georgia late next week, where he will be booked and processed on criminal charges brought by the d.a. down there, fani willis. this is all expected to happen sooner than next thursday, which is one day after the first republican presidential debate in milwaukee, wisconsin. and on that note, nbc news is also reporting that after quite a bit of back and forth, donald trump has officially decided not to attend that first debate which is being hosted by fox news. instead, trump is seeking a sit-down interview with the former fox news host, tucker carlson, as a means of counter programming the republican debate. this is not something that fox and the rnc can be happy about at all. and it is shaping up to be yet another chapter in the long running saga between donald trump and fox news. the network that helped make donald trump president in the first place. let me step back a bit here, do you remember the first time trump ever participated in a republican primary debate? it was august of 2015, and that debate, much like the coming one, was hosted by the republican national committee and fox news. meghan kelly was one of the moderators. when she asked trump about some of the absolutely via linguist that he had used to describe women in the past, trump was incensed. trump took his grievances to err on another cable news network. >> he gets out, and she starts asking me all sorts of ridiculous questions. you can see that there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever. >> after that, trump boycotted the fox news debate because the network refused to remove megyn kelly as a moderator. by the war with fox did not last long. when trump became the republican nominee, fox mary much went along for the ride. meghan kelly left the network citing donald trump as the reason for her exit. when that happened, the relationship between trump and fox was cemented. since then, the network has shown trump undying loyalty. we saw that in the dominion voting systems lawsuit which cost the network more than three quarters of a billion dollars. fox news hosts knew that trump's election lies were baseless, but they continued to promote them in order to preserve the relationship with trump and his supporters. even as fox hosts were complaining about trump behind the scenes. tucker carlson, while he was still a fox news star, told a colleague at one point of trump, i hate him passionately. i can't handle much more of this. then, referring to trump's presidency, carlson said we are all pretending we've got a lot to show for it because admitting what a disaster it has been is too tough to digest. so, fox has been at the mercy of donald trump four years. as a result, has defended and promoted trump in ways that would have previously been unthinkable. and fox is not alone in this. the same abusive relationship trump has with folks, he also has with the republican party. over the course of his presidency, trump turned the republican national committee of the rnc into his lapdog. trump forced the rnc to cover hundreds of thousands of dollars of his own personal legal bills. at one point, the rnc spent $100,000 just to boost the sales of a book written by trump's adult son, don junior. trump even managed to get the rnc involved in this plot to overturn the 2020 election using fake electors. the chair of the rnc, monica daniels, told the january 6th committee that trump and his lackeys called her up and demanded that the republican party assist with his plot. according to the federal indictment, that kept trump up to speed on all the fake elector-ing that was happening. so, a lot of work these guys have put in for donald trump. they weathered lawsuits and criminal probes and public humiliation. you name it, they've done it. and now the rnc and fox news is hosting a debate. a big ticket advent that they are desperate to have him attend. we know that because the night that donald trump received his third indictment, the new york times reports that trump was having a private dinner with fox news executives who are trying to convince trump to participate in next week's debates. and one of the control this? not just a sorry guys, not this time, you know. trump's counter programming their debate. he's actively trying to take audience away from fox and the rnc. is this what loyalty gets you in the republican party these days? if so, was all of the lying and prostrate-ing in front of donald trump, was it worth it? joining me now is former congressman and republican dave jolly. david jolly, i find this so utterly humiliating for these two institutions, fox news and the rnc. i wonder do you wonder if it was the loyalty pledge that all the candidates have to agree to that they will support the nominee no matter who it is? do you think that is the reason he's not doing this? when you look into the mind of someone like donald trump, a scary dark place though it may be, what do you see? >> i think it might be better. it is his wrong ego and also the stature of a former president. for your point, he not only humiliated but he crushed the hopes of the rnc. now it allows more americans to hear from the candidate supposed to hearing donald trump mop up the stage with his ego and his vanities. i do think that they revealed something about donald trump's ideas going to the next week and in some ways, informed how he is looking at the contrast in this race. donald trump has a couple options to counter program. he could lean into the chaos theory of surrender for arrest and only new cycle with the mugshot. and i am a victim in the deep state of weaponization in all of these arguments and drown out whatever is happening on the debate stage. but he didn't really do that. it appears that he is going for the i am going to sit down as a former president. i'm sure we will hear the election was stolen, and all of those things, but i'm thinking he's trying to set himself out as a candidate of one. there is one donald trump, he's sitting down with tucker carlson as a former president, and the leader in the race, and he will lead on the kids in the sandbox ever debate. and the next morning, -- it is telling that he doesn't really want to lean into the indictment and arrest says the counter programming would suggest, even donald trump knows that some themes of his candidacy just are too hot. >> in some ways, dave, he's having his cake and eating it to. we are hearing the arraignment is going to be no earlier than thursday. in theory, he can step on the afterglow if that is what you want to call it, of the debate, by getting arraigned. which seems like, again, a very odd thing to try to sell yourself with a criminal indictment. nonetheless, maybe that is part of the playbook. i am sort of confused by the fact that he's choosing to sit down with tucker carlson. a man who said, he's in a court filing, saying that i hate donald trump passionately. timmy, that seems like the sort of thing that would be unforgivable in the book of trump. but no? >> he's transactional. i'm surprised because how do you even watch tucker carlson these days? truly, how are the republican super voters able to watch the counter programming that donald trump is trying to achieve? i think that is a fair question. perhaps that is a misstep of the president. i think that you nailed it. there's a sequence here. he is waiting for the indictment and the arrest until the next day because then, who is going to remember anything that was said the night before? donald trump, what we do know, he knows how to own a cycle and he puts issues in front of the country that simply have to be covered, right? the former president is being arrested and arraigned in a significant criminal trial, in georgia, that has to be covered. whatever happens on the debate stage the night before really is an afterthought. >> i guess i wonder what you think that does to the debate itself. beyond the fact that there are certainly will not be the fireworks, presumably, that there would be if trump was there. does it really relegate the entire crop of presidential candidates to an afterthought? at this point, with 91 felony charges against him, the fact that he is the prohibited front runner so much so that he doesn't even need to attend the debate, really tells you something about the modern state of affairs in the republican party. >> it really does. i think that data released by ron desantis's super pac this week confirms that. that you are not going to see data supported attacks on donald trump. you will see that chris christie's, and others who go at donald trump, but we also know that they are out a step with today's republican party. even if they are in line with the right side of history. so i think what you will see is all of the other candidates defend donald trump, they are sympathetic, maybe he will take the position that he is too distracted, or he has not won, but that would be the hardest hit. the theme i am looking for, actually, it arose out of kathy barnett's senate race in pennsylvania when she was running against doctor oz and others. she started to make a move, and trump hit her, she said listen, monica does not belong to one person. it belongs to all of us. and just as you give donald trump the opportunity to be a vessel for a, i hope that you will consider me as a vessel as well. i think you will see variations on that theme from every republican. sympathies towards donald trump, allegiance towards donald trump by trying to present themselves as an alternative that perhaps could win, and ultimately advance the cause for a greater than trump, good. if he loses. >> wow. maga vessels everywhere. one last one, dave. in terms of fox news, do you think that we could force -- is there a chance that fox news actually -- i'm not going to say breaks with trump, because i know the answer to that question. but the adoration parade maybe lessons to some degree in the coming months? >> yes. i think there will be a hit on the debate stage. there are postures that will be different now because they got left at the altar after begging trump to join, trump flirted with the idea, but they know that this debate is simply not the same for the country or the party or their ratings without the trump -- being there. it is simply the undercard, if you, will of people trying to get in the second place. so fox is going to stick with trump for ratings and for profit and all of that but they are also not going to take it lying down. i don't know if that hit is going to be, is that something the moderator delivers, it is something that is done by the editorial board, you know, the editorial decisions with fox? i think there will be something. >> i mean, it's certainly an embarrassing turn of events, that's all i'll say. former congressman david jolly, thank you for your perspectives, i appreciate your time. we have a lot to get to tonight, including an up close look at a florida community whose history of racist violence is being whitewashed as part of governor ron desantis's war on woke. plus, startling new take showing one of the men accused of conspiring with donald trump to overturn the 2020 election at the capitol on january 6th. that is next. at is next listen, your deodorant just has to work. i use secret aluminum free. just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. and hours later, i still smell fresh. secret works! ohhh yesss. ♪♪ type 2 diabetes? 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at this because that building is where former president trump pleaded not guilty earlier this month to federal charges of attempting to overturn the 2020 election. and, it is also where members of the far-right extremist group, the proud boys, will soon be sentenced for their role in the january 6th attack. the justice department has just announced it is seeking a whopping 33 years in prison for the former leader of that group and -- that is a staggering sentence. one that is more notable given what we learned today. a review of public source video appears to show kenneth chesebro, the alleged architect of trump's fake electors plot, it appears to show him on the capitol grounds on january 6th. chesebro's presence was first reported by cnn. and the video, chesebro is identified as the one in a red trump maga hot, marching alongside ali jones. chesebro is one of trump's 18 codefendants and d a -- in georgia. chesebro also appears to be a coconspirator number five, and -- chesebro is sort of everywhere, literally speaking. and while there is no indication that mr. chesebro entered the capitol or acted violently on january 6th, this could greatly complicate his legal defense. as law professor notes, this evidence could be decided by prosecutors as further proof that chesebro was not operating as a bona fide legal advisor, but rather was an activist aligned in the cause to overturn the 2020 election. joining me now is christie greenberg, a former federal prosecutor for the southern district of new york, where she served as the deputy chief of the criminal division. thank you for being with me on this friday night. i wonder if you agree with ryan goodman's assessment that the presence of chesebro, on the january 6th insurrection, though not acting violently, could be a real problem for the defense he is trying to mount in a federal indictment? >> absolutely, it could. his lawyers are going to portray him as a lawyer sitting in his office, turning out memos, sending out legal theories, and just offering potential options to a client. but his presence at the capitol really shatters that image. this is no longer a theory, it is action. he's not this passionate lawyer, he has got the red trump path on. he's filming as the crowd is getting rowdier and rowdier. he is in the presence of a known conspiracy theorist, alex jones, and he actually went into a restricted area at the capitol, as well. so, you know, this shows somebody who is really personally invested in this corrupt plan to overturn the election. there is a reason why, when investigators asked him if he was in d.c. in december of 2020, and into january of 2021, he pled the fifth. he knows that it is damaging that his presence at the capitol that day is certainly damaging to any defense that he's trying to mount to the charges. >> he's all over this video. he's not exactly a secret presence here. he's very much in and around some of the big faces of the day, the boldface names, the allegations of january 6th. i've got to ask you, the notion that this defense, effectively lawyers be lawyering, they are just being creative, if you are john eastman. or you know, mr. chesebro was just, you know, putting forth some legal theories as lawyers do. it is that, in and of itself, it's all that explanation in the court of law as to how the fake electors plot, for example, came to be? does not hold as much water as we are led to believe that it does? the >> i don't think so, we've been looking at the substance of the memos evolved from one where he mentioned, okay, this is just about the wisconsin memo that is referenced in the january 6th indictment, this is just to preserve our legal options. in the event any of the lawsuits are successful. okay, that seems like a legal theory, one could support in a memo. but then, in a subsequent memo, it evolves. and it really starts to talk about it again, more action. not just for preserving our options, but how are we actually going to implement this fake electors scheme. you know, there is also an email that he sends in, december of 2022, john eastman, where he talks about the supreme court justices may be more inclined to act if they had reason to fear that there is going to be chaos on january 6th. maybe they will do something before him. all of that starts to take things into, again, not theory, but action. that this is a plan that he wanted to implement. and that it is an illegal plan. >> i do wonder, given that we are getting this chesebro news, or this video footage, and analysis, the same day that enrique tarrio, the doj is asking him to be sentenced to 33 years in jail, in prison for his role in the january 6th insurrection, i mean, what do you think, what does that portend as far as how aggressively the doj is going to go after the coconspirators named in the federal indictment against donald trump? >> it is interesting, if you look at the sentencing submission from the government, there is reference to the fact that a number of these proud boys leaders are really footsoldiers of the right. are they really footsoldiers on the right or are they footsoldiers of donald trump? it is a donald trump who is the general here? and if that is the case, it is hard not to call out donald trump's own violence. you know, now there have been three criminal cases and there are at least two of them where there has been a reference in a bill consideration to whether or not one presents a danger to the community. is it the person who is unleashing this kind of violence a danger to the community? no one argued that, no one argued that he should be, that donald trump should be detained, but certainly, a donald trump and any unindicted coconspirators not only thought about violence on january 6th but they knew about it. even though it is not charge that they incited it, many of their actions are laid out in the indictment, strongly suggesting that that is what they did. you know, donald trump is telling them his supporters to fight, and according to cassidy hutchinson, he knows that they are armed. many of them are armed and they don't have any metal detectors. leave them there, they are not going to hurt me. a lot of the speech that was done at that time, yes, is it protected by the first amendment? i think that it is a really tough question. i assume that is why the special counsel didn't charge it. but that doesn't mean that it should be considered as to whether or not there is any kind of treat pile detention that should be appropriate at the former president at some point in particular, if he continues with his intimidation tactics on social media of potential jurors, witnesses, and the judges and prosecutors in the cases. >> i do wonder if the legal peril is really starting to dawn on him. the washington post notes today that trump now adds my opinion or what i think to his claims about the stolen election. that is the one who's may be listening to the advice of his lawyers. >> he was supposed to have a press conference on monday where he was going to present the report of 100 page report of proof that he actually won the election. obviously, we know that doesn't exist. if there was such proof he would have put it forth. his attorneys would've put it forth. and many lawsuits where the courts found there was no such evidence in any of the select house select committee hearings where evidence were to come forth. the same with his lawyers, they met with the special counsel before charges came down. there was such evidence that would have been brought forth then. he also had an opportunity to go before the grand jury and present any evidence himself in the january 6th case. he declined to do so. so that evidence does not exist, and it seems like somebody has told him that this is going to be a landscaping two point oh and that he should declined to do it. >> it didn't stop trump from going to the actual four seasons this week but the question is, how long does this newly-unleashed trump last? thank you for your time, tonight i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> still to come this evening, we take a trip back to where this show began one year ago. to ron desantis's florida. and to a small town that has become a symbol of desantis's quest to rewrite and whitewash american history. that is next. that is next my name is caron and i'm from brooklyn. i work for the city of new york as a police administrator. i oversee approximately 20 people and my memory just has to be sharp. i always hear people say, you know, when you get older, you know, people lose memory. i didn't want to be that person. i decided to give prevagen a try. my memory became much sharper. i remembered more! i've been taking prevagen for four years now. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. looking for a bladder leak pad that keeps you dry? all of the things that you're looking for in a pad, that is always discreet. look at how it absorbs all of the liquid. and locking it right on in! you feel no wetness. - oh my gosh! - totally absorbed! i got to get some always discreet! 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(♪♪) >> when the show first started a year ago, ron desantis was in the middle of a successful reelection campaign for governor. he was just beginning his war on woke. as the extended his reach into public classrooms across florida, transforming them into anti-woke battlegrounds, we followed. reporting on the effect of his new policies. when governor desantis began policing language in florida schools, we talked with teachers attempting to plan lessons where they couldn't teach about racism if any group of students feel discomfort. when desantis initiated a hostile takeover of new college, a small public liberal arts school in the state, we went there. we spoke to students, and parents about the new trustees, and their mission to transform the school into a model of conservatism. one year later governor desantis is attempting to rescue his struggling presidential campaign by spotlighting his latest crusade against black history. first, florida rejected the curriculum from ap african american studies. then the board of education approved new standards for teaching black history, including mandating lessons on the personal benefit of slavery. and requiring that lessons on certain race massacres include acts of violence perpetrated against and by african americans. so, once again, we went back to florida, traveling to the small town of ocoee. 12 miles west of orlando, where the town's own history -- and the ability to learn about it. that is all under threat. >> basically, a whole bunch of black people were killed because they wanted to vote in the white people decided that they wanted to kill them and burn our homes and stuff. it was a really horrible night. i know a lot of students don't know about that, even though we are literally there. >> i learned about the massacre -- we were outside talking and they were like did you know that there is a scholarship? and we are like what scholarship? and they said the massacre. and she was like they killed all the black people. and i said they what? and i'm just like this is serious. how racism goes so far. >> it happens everywhere. >> we still don't know about it. >> i wasn't taught at any school. i think it may have been mentioning a pea u.s. history my junior year. even if it is at a slower pace it still needs to be taught throughout the years at school. because it is important and it is our history. especially living in florida. >> in november, 1920, the small town of ocoee was the site of the worst election day violence in election history. and weeks before the election, kkk members send threatening members -- who registered residents to vote. the klan promised we should always -- and he who interferes must face the consequences. >> this is sleepy hollow ground cemetery, which contains the bodies of at least 300 people, black people who died during the massacre. most of them burned to death beyond recognition. so they were put in mass graves in this spot. and until recently they were forgotten about. >> the massacre was scorched play to african american men who went to the post to vote. it was about voting rights. >> there was a good reason for white men to be afraid of black people voting because a change the balance of power. >> so, they were refused the right to vote. >> the mob comes to the home, surrounds his home, trying to find out what was going on and to bring him out to punish him for attempting to vote. they killed two of them through friendly fire. and it gets blamed on july perry. there were headlines all over the country. two wightman killed, blacks rioting out. >> it appears unclear who killed those men, but those headlines about the deaths of whites at july perry's home, diminishing racial terror in that community, those headlines would have repercussions both then, and now. >> he was arrested, and brought into orlando, where the county jail is. the mob followed him and took him out of the jail and hung him. and left his body hanging for days. as intimidation so that other african americans who would contemplate voting in orange county would see what would happen. >> a lot of what the kkk was trying to do was to suppress the vote without using violence. normally it worked. >> the black death toll from that day is now incalculable. the remaining black population plummeted after the massacre. and the events of november 1920 were largely forgotten. until now. >> since i have been governor we have added to which type of african american issues -- we have mandatory instruction on the election day riots in 1920. >> the new curriculum in florida schools championed by governor ron desantis mandates that students learn about what happened in ocoee. but only if that instruction includes acts of violence perpetrated against and by african americans. it is an apparent reference to the two wightman killed at perry's home, and it obscures the fact that the massacre targeted black citizens. >> there had been comments about the death of the standards. anyone who could read these standards, you could see the topics that are covered our in-depth and there is nothing that is left out. >> the slate of florida and desantis is officially blaming anti white violence on blacks in ocoee. it didn't happen. it is a lie. the two white men who died here died at the hands of other white people. so we are here to try to correct that lie. >> if you take a massacre where a whole town was destroyed, houses were set afire, schools were set a fire, lodges, churches, people who ran out of their homes were shot and killed. and those who did not run out of their homes, burned in the building. and if you can take something like that and have it focused on violence, perpetrating by, and against african americans, you missed the whole point. >> good morning. >> geraldine thompson or to the florida education system for more than 24 years before she became a state senator representing ocoee. >> i would like to welcome you and thank you for your participation in this speak out town hall meeting. >> thompson is now involving the entire community to protect the state's history standards. >> i want petitions that we are going to send the commissioner of education. saying that we want factual balance history pot in our classrooms. >> i love these students, every day i come to school, i come to work, i'm excited to talk to the kids. i'm excited to tell them what they need to know so that they can grow and make this country better. but they want me to lie to kids. they want us to ignore african history prior to the slave trade. they want us to try to hide florida's ugly legislative history. i will not, in my classroom -- it will not happen. >> while teachers and ocoee and across florida are struggling to teach students under these new standards, professor, marvin dunn, issuing educators ocoee's history firsthand. >> i am here because i wanted to bring active teachers to these places in florida where the state requires some to tell lies to students. like that there were anti white people in ocoee. teachers feel they have to teach alive because the state requires at. could someone tell me what is wrong with this marker? the problem with this marker is that it doesn't tell the truth of what happened here. it doesn't tell the truth of who is out there. this is hollow ground. this is not a cemetery. this is a mass grave. this is a mass grave. we will take questions, comments, reactions, anything from anybody. >> i am a teacher and i am telling all teachers, as you know, i was not hired to teach lies. and i will never teach flies. i am not a teacher who will teach lives. period. >> as for the students and school in ocoee, they are determined to learn the truth about what happened in their own backyard. regardless of what the state of florida says. >> even if our history is not being taught in schools it is our obligation to lead about our history on our own. >> we have to do what our teachers are unable to do. what are public school teachers are being prohibited for a teaching us by a law. their jobs are at stake, and they are risking their -- >> you can't pick and choose which ones you want saying that history was beautiful and we are such a generous people, no. you killed people, you massacred people, you took people from their homes. that is the hard truth. like it hurts. it really does. because people still have wounds. like you have the great grandchildren surviving, recalling the times of trauma. but we have to heal as a nation. we can't heal as a nation -- if you don't acknowledge the past history is going to keep repeating itself. >> it is not just happening in ocoee, and it is not just happening in florida. there is a national effort underway to erase black history, and daily black political power. that's next. power. that's next. when you can du more with less asthma. it's possible with dupixent. dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems. it's an add-on treatment for specific types of 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unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv >> we shouldn't have to find this hard to be in the same place that we were at that time. it's like, getting ridiculous, it's like, we are in 2023, we are still fighting over the same -- we are still having the same issues, like, you thought that we would've progressed more. but we have gone nowhere. >> students are back in school in florida where they are going to be taught that sleeves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit. and that certain race massacres like the racial terror in ocoee in 1920, included acts of violence perpetrated against, and by african americans. and florida state officials, if they have their way, those kinds of history lessons will be exported across the country. >> this is something that is going to affect the norm for standards in other states when it comes to african american history. >> joining us now is the dean of the journalism school at columbia university, and staff writer for the new yorker. thank you for being here to help put some needed perspective on all of this. i know that it is never a good thing to whitewash history, to rewrite history. what about the particular evil when you are rewriting the history of a community like ocoee that has been so historically, and systematically disenfranchised? >> you know, it compounds the original offense. so, you know, you have the atrocity that occurred a century ago, and then you add insult to that historical injury, by trying to diminish the scale of the horror that is entailed, and that history, and other histories in that state and beyond. and i think that the more troubling element of this is is the way history is framed is almost always connected to the way that the contemporary politics are being framed. when we see the attempts to copy it history, and try to prevent and even-handed view of lynchings and massacres, what do you rationalize for the current state of affairs when you see people who were killed attempting to cast the ballot, what are you attempting to lay a groundwork for in the contemporary context? >> i mean, to that end, what do you see as a potential line between the massacre at ocoee which was specifically to disenfranchise black voters to terrorize them and to not exercise their fundamental democratic right and the election of 2020 where the leading head of the republican party assisted by republicans are trying to disenfranchise those voters in atlanta, in philadelphia, in detroit, and elsewhere. what is the lesson that you draw? what is the parallel you see between the events of 1920 and the events of 2020? >> it is notable, by the way, that philadelphia was in there, and pennsylvania, and milwaukee was in there as well in wisconsin. and we just see these federal indictments being handed down for atlanta in georgia. in the states where there are millions of other voters, the center of attention was conveniently, or coincidentally in these population centers that were filled with african american voters. so the president is not hard to illuminate. not hard to connect. so we see what these things, you know, kind of, the ugly specter of disenfranchised -- the violin disenfranchisement in history rearing its head again in the contemporary context. >> i think that the other part of it that i find so distressing is the notion of systemic racism has effectively been erased and has been censored in the state of florida. but in a state like ocoee it bears mentioning that after this racial terror was inflicted upon black residents, as black property owners literally fled the town, their properties were resold white residents for pennies on the dollar. this is how, this is how we end up in a place with such perverted economic disenfranchisement and political disenfranchisement. i just wonder, we have this many documentary that we just played, the kids and ocoee want to learn about their history. i worry that so much of the connective threat is being lost when people are literally having to find out about events like the ocoee massacre on the internet. and they are not being shown the full spectrum of events that has led us to where we are today. do you worry about that as an academic? what resources people have to really paint a full picture of our american history? >> there are two things to your point. one, ocoee is not atypical. that kind of land loss, if you really want to get into the hard aspects of the history, you can just look at the scale of the land loss. in town, after town, after town, county, after county, state, after state, especially in those 50 years that followed emancipation, we have people that were just driven out and sometimes sold, on pennies on the dollar. what happens when you give this highly curated version of ishisu render them incapable of actually being a civic minded participant. you make it difficult for them to actually participate in the fundamental elements of democracy which is supposed to be our responsibility, it is the constitutional democratic state. so there are ripple effect, not only as an academic, but as someone who's concerned about the integrity of democracy. these are things i think about, and i'm pretty alarmed about. >> this is foundational to having a thriving and surviving democracy. we have to leave it there, professor dean cobb. it is always so wonderful to speak with, even when it is about very distressing developments in american society. thank you for your time this friday evening. when we come back, something violent and historic is said to happen in the state of california. the latest on our angry planet is next. et is next. 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