Night, stopping such a coward. As the indicted front runner backed down from the debate, guess which candidate has a bait plan to defend him onstage. California faces its first ever Tropical Storm watch in the history of the state, as a catastrophic effects of Climate Change range on. All in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. The Department Of Justice is requesting severe penalties for five members of the farright gang, the proud boys, convicted on some of the most serious charges weve seen in connection with the january 6th attack on the capitol. Not to be clear, this is the second group of Violent Conspirators in the Capitol Attack that the doj has successfully prosecuted. Over the past year, prosecutors secured convictions of six members of another group, the oath keepers. On the rare and serious crime of Seditious Conspiracy. The groups founder and leader, Elmer Stewart rhodes the third, the guy there, you see there. Hes now serving an 18year prison sentence. The longest yet in a january 6th case. But the request from federal prosecutors in the proud boys cases even harsher. The doj is seeking sentences of 20 to 30 years in prison for. Enrique tarrio, who they described as quote, Savvy Propagandist and Celebrity Chairman of the the government requests 33 years. Tarrio was the only of these five codefendants who is not actually present it to the Capitol On January 6th but prosecutors say the only reason he did not march alongside the others is because he was erected upon his arrival in washington d. C. And placed under a court order to leave the district. Tarrio orchestrated a conspiracy by provoking a desire for Political Violence among his followers. Creating a subgroup he called the ministry of selfdefense, and filling it with man he could trust. Inflaming the group with rage against line for smith and then turning it loose on the capitol. A jury convicted him of Seditious Conspiracy as well as five other counts. Prosecutors are asking the judge to increase his sentence for those crimes, with something called the terrorism enhancement. The doj is making the same ask for tarrios codefendant, a man by the name of joseph biggs, also convicted on the same six counts. They also want biggs to serve 33 years. For his role as a quote, vocal leader, and influential proponent of the groups shift towards political violent. Bigs they say, acted as the tip of the spear throughout the attack on january 6th. He was among the first wave across the first street barrier. He was among the first riders at the capital of breach for. He reentered a second time and travel directly to the seventh chamber. Prosecutors are requesting a 30 year sentence for proud boys, zachary rehl, government says that he led a march of approximately 200 through the Washington Monument to the Capitol On January 6th. He also encouraged riders that the initial breach, yelling, fm, storm the capital. And personally assaulted Law Enforcement officers with a chemical irritant spray while he was on the grounds of the capitol. Ethan nordean, another leader of the proud boys on january 6th, convicted of the same crimes. Prosecutors want to serve 27 years in prison. He also led that group of 200 men to the capitol. According to prosecutors he immediately moved to the forefront of the throng and took action by tearing down the fence. He later stopped the front of the line, marching back and forth, as though he was a general of the army. Finally, youve got one of the most infamous figures from january 6th, you may recognize from the video of that day. Proud boy, dominic pezzola, he was the first person to breach the capitol building. Smashing open a window with a riot shield hes stolen from an officer. [screaming] now, interestingly enough, pezzola, the guy you saw there smashing that window. He was acquitted to the charges of Seditious Conspiracy. He was convicted on several other accounts, that included assaulting, resisting, or impeding officers. Governor they say was one of the proud boys most violent members on january 6th. Now, doj knows they are asking for stiff penalties. They argue those penalties are warranted. They say, and i quote them here, the Justice Systems response to january 6th will impact whether that day becomes an outlier or a watershed moment. The atlantic pointing out that by nearly every measure, Political Violence is seen as more acceptable today than it was five years ago. The government concludes, quote, left unchecked, this impulse threatens our democracy. Now, the question that looms over each one of these january 6th cases, and there are over 1000, is how to produce a sufficient deterrent effect, so we never see this again. I mean, theres a bunch of reasons why we punish people fourth crimes, typically. We think of them in a few different buckets. We do it for retribution, we do it to remove very dangerous people from the general population, but at least to me, the most important reason, and particularly in this case, is to deter other people from doing the same thing. One of the key things that we know about deterrences best summed up by the great enlightenment thinker, cesar beccaria, who says, crimes are more effectively prevented by the certainty than they severity of the punishment. If the certainty of being punished, when youre calculating whether to commit a crime, that is going to deter people not the severity of the sentence, am i going to get knob to, not how long will i have to serve in person. The reason thats an important principle is that here in the u. S. , we tend to get this wrong. In fact, we tend to get it exactly backwards here. Punishment here is actually quite uncertain. For one example, we are among the worst countries in the industrialized world at solving murders. In some cities, more than half of people who commit murder or never found or apprehended. At the same time, our sentences are much much more severe than our peers. Not really even in the same category. A recent report found the u. S. Average sentence of 12. 2 years was double the next highest nation, hungary, which had an average sentence of six years. When it comes to january 6th, we need to be, i think, laser focused on this question of deterrence. Because it simply cannot be the case that if you try to overthrow the government, you fail, then you just go home, and you wait around for your next chance. Everyone has to know that. If you fail, you will be punished. So in my mind, what is so important about the sentences, particularly of these key figures, is not how long they are. Honestly, it doesnt really matter to me whether Enrique Tarrio serves 33 years or ten years. What does matter is that theyve been apprehended, theyve been tried, that they are now going to be punished. Same for the oath keepers. But we still have got a problem with certainty of punishment. It has been applied pretty well to everyone in the bottom 95 of the criminal pyramid on january 6th. The outstanding question, of course, is those at the top. It took two and a half years after the insurrection for charges to be brought against the leaders at the top. 19 of them in the georgia case, including donald trump, now have just seven days remaining to turn themselves in in the Fulton County jail. There are six more Unindicted Coconspirators in a federal case who we expect will face charges at some point. But to the biggest remaining open question, particularly as donald trump tries to sort of delay this trial long enough to get back into power, is whether we are going to apply the most basic bedrock principle of deterrence to the most dangerous malefactor of the entire operation. Donald trump. Charles blow hes an Opinion Columnist in the New York Times. Danya perry as well as deputy chief of the Criminal Division in the Southern District of new york. Who both join me now. Danya, im curious of what you think of the dojs Sentencing Request here. And how the process goes into making these requests, generally speaking across the board . There are specific factors that the government is supposed to consider in making their Sentencing Request. And that the judge is required to consider as well in issuing a sentence. They include, as you say, deterrence, both specific to the individual defendant, and also general, to the population. As you alluded to, they need to avoid sentencing disparities. The particular characteristics of the individual. There are a number of factors that go into it. Here, of course, in their sentencing submission, the government stressed deterrence. As you just did as well. Here, they felt the need to request the most severe, some might say, draconian sentences, that they have requested to date. They are trying to distinguish the sentencing that they are requesting here from sentencings that have been handed down before. Including for the oath keepers, which was about half what they are requesting here. They are doing that mostly based on deterrence, but also by noting that this was the worst group, essentially, they were the leaders. The first ones to breach. At several points, they have the most followers. So that is their justification for these outsized Sentencing Request. Sente charles, what do you tk of the disparity as of now . We now have charges against the ex president. But up until now, this disparity between the footsoldiers and the folks calling the shots at the top. And what that means for whether we see this as abhorrent, something that never happens again, or doesnt have been for a long time, or something that becomes normalized. It is in the same way that henchmen will always be punished more than the architects of a crime. People who are engaged in political wrongdoing are going to get more lenient train meant than people who are based in Political Violence. When youre deciding whether or not youre going to follow some wink wink, not not of a politician, to go out and commit violence, understand youre going to get the hammer brought down on you much more severely than the person who is winking and nodding. That said, deterrence only work if the punishment sticks. The big danger here is that donald trump is running for reelection. He has already said that he is going to look very question closely at pardoning all of the people, or many of the people who were engaged in january 6th. Because donald trump, in order to demonstrate what he wants to demonstrate, which is that he wants to say that hes innocent. He has to also make the people who were part of his kind of grander scheme, also innocent. The deterrent wont work if the ultimate outcome is that you see that you can get away with it on the right side of the strongest man. That is exactly right. Precisely the kind of existential stakes here. Which interestingly, really run through that Sentencing Document by the Department Of Justice. Danya, theyre really quite pointed about what we are dealing with here. Basically, the question of are we going to allow Political Violence like this to become normalized . Just an interesting note on that. One of the people, christopher worrell, who is a florida proud boy convicted of seven counts, whos scheduled to be convicted today in washington is missing. We dont know where he went. Again, theres a sense here that its important that these people be taught a lesson, and everyone be taught a lesson about the strength of the law. Yeah, i dont know if it was coincidence that he appears to have fled right around the same time the government filed its brief. But certainly the specter of a decades long sentence could have motivated him to flee. But yes, the government stressed that repeatedly, that this is the worst, one of the worst acts of domestic terrorism that this country has seen. And they really strike that note over and over, as you say, its a through line throughout the hundred and 55page submission. The dispensed defense, in response said, this is really not domestic terrorism. They compared it to other conduct by Timothy Mcvay and mass shooters weve seen. They said this is not that. It is a very large sentence. And to your point, it is there is plenty of Empirical Evidence that it is certainty, and not severity of punishment that really deters. So we will see what this judge does with that dichotomy. And the certainty, of course, is if it can all be undone. Charles, you are talking about it, i hadnt even remember. That of course he started running on this pledge that hes going to pardon people. Hes running on the pledge that january 6th was good, it was a noble effort, it hill finish the job this time. In terms of that distinction between the henchmen and the planners, whats interesting is there appears to be at least one individual who falls into both categories. Remember, trump says im going to march to the capitol with you, and he doesnt. Even though it appears he wanted to storm the capitol based on some of the. It likely. One of the unindicted Co Conspirators in the federal case, and is also named as a racketeer and a conspirator and charged in georgia. He was at the capitol, on the capitol grounds. Kenneth chesebro, the lawyer associated with Donald Trumps campaign. Who thought of the legal theory behind the socalled fake electors scheme. Appears to have been on the ground of the capitol in january 6th, 2021, according to a review of public source video at his own former mentor. We have an cheeseborough, at least one example, charles, of those two categories overlapping. Yes, we should say obviously that based on evidence that he was in big aged in violence. But he was there. It was remarkable about how many people were either at the speech before the violence happened, who were prominent people. Including there was so many people who were there in the midst of this atmosphere, when they were fermenting this, and urging people to get excited. And that is what led to the wave of people marching down the street to the capitol. People marchin g down the street to th those are th, however, who are going to get the brunt of this. That is how unbalanced the criminal Justice System is. Its always going to go for the lowest criminal, give them the most punishment. White criminals will get away with less. You have to think about that. When you are volunteering your body, and your liberty, and yourself, to be someone else is muscle. Charles blow and danya perry i, thank you both very much. Coming up, trump says he might not attend the republican debate. Where i heard that before . Donald, why dont you show up and debate like a man . But first, did the ex president s Chief Of Staff wrote him out to the feds . The mystery continues. Thats next. The manager. And the snack dad. All using chase to keep up with their finances. The coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. Anddd check this out. The manager deposited a check. Magic. And the snack dad . Hes getting paid back. Orange slicesss. Because this team all has chase. Smart bankers. Convenient tools. One bank with the power of both. Chase. Make more of whats yours. I have moderate to severe crohns disease. Chase. Now, theres skyrizi. Things are looking up ive got Symptom Relief Control of my crohns means everything to me. Control is everything to me. 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To help relieve your occasional digestive upsets. So you can enjoy life. when you feel the signs, its time to try align. The most mysterious figure around the attempted coup remains Donald Trumps former Chief Of Staff, mark meadows. We know that hes the guy who initially cooperated with the january Six Committees investigation, jim voluntarily handing over thousands of Text Messages between him and others in trumps inner circle in the days leading up to the sixth, on the sixth, and the days after. We also know that donald trump made a very large donation of 1 million to a Concerted Foundation Headed By Meadows just weeks after the january Six Committee was formed. Then we know that meadows suddenly stopped cooperating with the committee, in fact refusing to comply with a subpoena for more documents or to appear for a deposition. The committee already had most of his texts and emails, which revealed so much. They were crip critical to the investigation. It was meadows deputy who gave some of the most damning testimony before the january Six Committee. We were watching the tv, i could see that the rioters were getting closer and closer to the capital. Mark still hadnt popped out of his office or said anything about it. That was when i went into his office, i saw that he was sitting on his couch, on his cell phone. Same as the morning, he was just kind of scrolling and typing. I said, hey, are you watching the tv chief . You can see it, but i didnt know if he was paying attention. I just remember, i remember thinking in that moment, mark needs to snap out of this and i dont know how to snap him out of this but he needs to care. Cassidy hutchinson left us with this very vivid image of her former boss in this weird cipher in this days the whole time. Never definitively taking one side or the other. Well, meadows stopped cooperating with the committee and figure of 2023. He was then subpoenaed to testify before the d. C. Federal grand jury investing the attempted coup. He ultimately complied. After that, he went dark. Which fueled speculation that hes cooperating with special counsel, jack smiths investigation. Here is the end of july, being asked about the grand jury, and refusing to come. Have you testified before the grand jury . You know, i dont talk about anything they say. Do you feel like its appropriate, the investigation . Less than a week later, when jack smith charged trump over his efforts to steal the election, mark meadows was not among the six people described as Unindicted Coconspirators. Which, when some credence to the theater that he might be cooperating. This week, he is among the 19 people indicted for racketeering in georgia. A case hes fighting that moved to Federal Court. Now, after two and a half years after january 6th, after all these investigations, we still dont know exactly what meadows is up to. Nikki Mccann Ramirez is a politics reporter for rolling stone, she joins me now. This is one of the great mysteries, nikki, youve been reporting on it. Following this trajectory. What do we know about Meadows Status right now . Meadow status right chris, i think ta case is really setting up a confrontation between trumps legal team and meadows, that has been in the works for months. Rolling stone reported a couple months ago that several advisers in trumps inner circle viewed meadows as a potential fall guy for the investigations into the former president. Of course, as you said, he wasnt indicted by smith. Then in this georgia case, compared to his codefendants, some people think he got off a little lightly. When you compare the charges. Of course, for the trump team, this is just fueling suspicion that meadows is cooperating with prosecutors. As we reported earlier this week, not necessarily meadows, but others of the codefendants have started to point fingers at each other. Saying, this person was more involved than i was. I was acting under advice of attorney. I think meadowss efforts to move the case from georgia to a Federal Court is not only a ploy to have the charges dismissed, but also a way for him to avoid this kind of Finger Pointing that is going on. He knows that hes already in the trump teams crosshairs. Thats interesting. Its also interesting that he moved so quickly and first. And that basically the argument was, look, i was just doing this in my official duties. Which of course is this is im doing thing for donald trump. Hes the principal, and the agent. Which of course is laying out his faith, both in a moral and public. Sent right to the argument you are making, as well as the legal argument to have it moved to Federal Court. Yeah, of course. There is the sense among trumps advisers, and i think amongst other people potentially involved in this conspiracy, that mark meadows is a rat. Rolling stone reported earlier this year that several advisers, and people in trumps circle had started referring to meadows with a rat emoji, instead of his name, in Text Messages. I think at this point we know that former President Trump doesnt really make the distinction between a someone who is legally obligated to participate in an investigation, and someone who is voluntarily cooperating. At this point, meadows has done both. As you said, so much of the damning evidence, not only in these election cases, but also in the maralago case, the maralago case was also the maralago tapes, sorry. Was also related to meadows. I think trump sees meadows as someone who is providing ammunition to the prosecution. Whether it be voluntary or not. Trump of course is not the kind of person who forgives that kind of thing. In fact, hes the kind of person who will try to punish someone for it. I think if these other codefendants get that sense that trump is looking for fall guys, is looking for someone to offload this case on to, and be like, a, i was just filing legal challenges. These other people got out of hand. I think not only meadows, but other defendants are going to try to separate out their case, separate themselves out from this debacle. Yeah, the representation strikes me as a key thing to watch here. Kersley, with cassidy hutchinson, she had a lawyer that was provided to her by this trump world. She left that lawyer after she felt like that lawyer was counseling her not to be fully honest. She got a new lawyer, and gave this explicit testimony. My understanding of meadows legal counsel, and i dont have that name in front of me, that hes not in the trump world. Hes not a person whos got a trump lawyer with him right now, which also makes him seem like independent at least, or floating out there. Not in the kind of cover of trump world. Yeah, i think several of trumps other codefendants are finding themselves in that same situation. Look at whats happening with jenna ellis. I think a lot of these codefendants are about to find that trump is not going to hold on to everyone if it means saving himself. Hes willing to throw anyone else under the bus if it means getting himself out of this prosecution. And i think that is why so early on in this case, we are already seeing signs that these codefendants are turning on each other. But they are willing to point the finger, because they no longer have that guaranteed protection of trump world. I think its going to turn into an every man for himself situation. Yeah, theres going to be a question, we saw that Rudy Giuliani reporting, him begging for trump to pay for his legal services. Then there was someone agreeing maybe. Theres also this unless you pay for my lawyers, im going to cooperate. Which is going to be something that hangs over this whole thing. We will see how long people hold out and not cooperate. Nikki Mccann Ramirez, thank so much for making time tonight. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. Coming up, yes which candidate is planning to defend the front runner, who may or may not be even be onstage . I will talk with one of the candidates planning to be on that debate stage next. Voltaren. The joy of movement. Eat pretzels. Eat more pretzels. Watch movies. Watch more movies. Get airline miles. Get onekeycash. Book inapp to earn onekeycash on top of your airline miles. Moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. Despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. It disrupts my skin with rash. But now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. Rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. Its one pill, once a day. Many taking rinvoq saw clear or almostclear skin while some saw up to 100 clear skin. And, they felt dramatic and fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. Thats rinvoq relief. 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And to hammer vivek ramaswamy, who is rocketing up the polls that strategy, those details, those two lines perfectly encapsulates the bizarro world of republican president ial primary, where theres one commanding front runner, the guy who tried to undo the for sexual abuse, but none of the other candidates want to take him on. Except for Chris Christie, who will be at the debate, and former governor, Asa Hutchinson of arkansas. Who as of now has not met the Donor Requirements to make the debate stage. Governor Asa Hutchinson joins me now. He was governor of arkansas from 2015 until this year. Its good to have you on, sir. First, tell me about your status. I will admit that the metrics for making it got a little in the weeds for me to stay on top of. Where are you, in terms of the . Well, thanks chris. We are going to make the debate. We are not there yet. The rnc requires 40,000 unique donors to make the debate stage. We are getting close. Weve got till monday, close of business, to make that 40,000. They said 2024. Com is where you go to make sure i get on the debate stage. Im not going to defend donald trump, i will be a prosecutor. I will be telling the truth on donald trump, and whether hes there or not, he will be a focal point of issue. Both own what happened on january 6th, but also how he will not lead the Republican Party well into the future. So, this sort of encapsulates the issue here, right . The Bind Everyone is in. You and Chris Christie, at least, have a theory of the case. Donald trump, the front runner is unfit for office. He shouldnt be the president. Also hes a political liability. I think both you and kristie think that, hes actually not a strong nominee. Okay, fine. The problem is republicans dont seem to want to hear that. The vast majority of the base, right . So i mean, our viewers might like that. But they are probably not voting in the republican primary. The question is how do you make that case to the people that most need to hear it . Well, great question. Of course, im in iowa. A sense i get in iowa is that donald trump is in the default position right now, until they decide where they want to go as to the best alternative. The debate will play a key role in that. But let me assure you that the iowans that i talked to recognize, if we are going to win, weve got to go in a different direction. Theres too much smoke there. They are really discouraged by it. The debate is that opportunity for me to make sure that we showcase the alternative, a different direction for donald trump. And hold him accountable, as we should be. Let me ask you this. This is a question im obsessed with. I dont really have a dog in this fight. Who the republicans dominate, aside from my love of our country, and americas constitutional democracy. One thing that i feel like would keep me up at night, if i were anyone who worked in republican politics, is this Nightmare Scenario timingwise where trump roles to win the nomination, he secures it, just as he goes on trial for the greatest political crime since the session. And maybe is convicted. Then its like its the summer, maybe its before or after the rnc, the Republican Party has this nominee whos just been convicted. That seems like a nightmare. No one in the Republican Party seems nearly as freaked out about that as i am, when i think about that. Well, its a realistic possibility. Ive actually made the case that we are in a terrible position, in iowa, New Hampshire, because these federal cases and state cases are not going to be resolved with donald trump before they start voting, and the iowa caucus, and the New Hampshire primary, probably even super tuesday. So one of the voters supposed to do . Thats why i think you will see a gradual shift. How does that happen . By speaking the truth, by reality coming to the helm that we cant win with donald trump. And we have to go a different direction. What i think they are looking at is who is going to be that alternative. Of course thats what we are fighting for. That will be the focus of the debate coming up next wednesday. Thats the interesting question, right, who is going to be donald trump. I really think theres two categories. I think you and Chris Christie are making a case, the front runner is unfit to stand to serve and a political liability. Heres what ive done. Youre both ex governors, heres why id be a good president. Everyone else seems to be waiting around for the guy to end up in the clank. Or be beamed up tomorrow, or something. What how is that going to work . That is where i believe that you have to be clear of what happened on january 6th. You cant be intimidated by a teenager who asked you a question as to what happened on january 6th, and what you is your views. It was an attack on our democracy. So on the debate next wednesday, there is not just going to be a difference to donald trump. There will be a difference between the candidates. Some of the candidates will be defending donald trump. I will certainly be on the side of telling the truth. But that is a defining moment. Who is going to be promising pardons . I dont think thats appropriate during a campaign. Others do. This is a critical time for us. Okay, youre on the trail. Your chili talking. I imagine theres a little selection bias, folks talking to you tend to be interested in your message. But im sure you are what are you getting back . One of those back and forths like . Do they know who you are . Or theyre like, youre the guy who hates donald trump, get out of my face . One of those interactions been like . No, actually its not like that at all. There is the media intensity on this issue, but whenever you talk to iowans, theres a little bit of discouragement about what they see is unfairness, in some instances. But also that watching is not working. They are very interested in what is my view of energy policy. What is my view of agriculture . Whats my view of ukraine . They get in and ask those substantive questions. That, quite frankly, is one of the reasons the debate is gonna be exciting next week. We can talk about some real policy issues, if donald trump is not going to be there, even though he will still be there in spirit. And will be a subject that we will all be talking about. I do think it would be good to hear some sort of substantive contentions about how people plan to govern, and what they want to do. It would be a really good to put that on full display, and harsh that of. Governor, ho hutchinson, thanks for making some time with us tonight. Thank, you i appreciate you going to asa 2024. Com. 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Every day year we just had the maui fires last week, devastating. People are currently dealing with the immediate aftermath, trying to recover. Theyre trying to recover for a long time. Now, california is under its first Tropical Storm watch ever. With a category four hurricane headed towards los angeles, of all places. I think that in all honesty i had no idea could have been. In fact, until about 24 hours ago, as someone who covers this stuff from time to time, it was to my understanding that there were typhoons in the pacific that went from east to west and crashed into places like the philippines in japan. And there were hurricanes in the atlanta that also went from east to west, and would make landfall in florida or the gulf coast, or the eastern seaboard. I didnt know there was such a thing as a hurricane that could hit southern california. That appears to be about to happen. Right now, Hurricane Hilary is a category four storm. Its about 300 miles South Southwest of kabul san lucas. Winds topping out at 130 Miles Per Hour. This is the projected path it could help hit l. A. Sometime on sunday. The wind speed could hopefully drop below hurricane status, at least thats what we think as of now. Paul douglass is a senior meteorologist at, praedictix, as well as the weather columnist from the minnesota star tribune. He joins me now. First, i guess, paul, how is this happening . Im not wrong that this doesnt generally happen, shouldnt be happening . It is surreal, even for meteorologists. Usually the Water Temperatures in the pacific are too chilly to support tropical systems, hurricanes. The warm of the water, the greater the potential for intensification. But with up welling, tradewinds coming in, west winds coming in off the pacific, it usually brings the colder water to the surface, off the coast of l. A. Then that really prevents these storms from intensifying. But as you just mentioned, Water Temperatures worldwide off the scale, air temperatures this summer have been off the scale. Antarctic sea ice loss off the scale. All these things, and we have a developing el nino. So a lot of uncomfortably warm off the high mexico. This thing is a big deal. Its going to come ashore near tiawan or san diego as a strong Tropical Storm, winds 50, 60, 70 Miles Per Hour at least in gusts. The primary threat though, chris, is going to be biblical rain. Five, ten inches. Palm springs, east of san diego, Southeastern Suburbs now of los angeles under a high threat of extreme flooding. Including riverside, san bernardino, the inland empire. Three, three and a half Million People under the gun. And the primary concern is Midday Sunday, to midday monday. When the Flooding Threat is going to be off the scale. Some flooding in downtown l. A. , and san diego. I think the worst of it is staying just east. Las vegas could also see five, six, eight inches of rain. 1 to 2 years worth of rain, chris, in 1 to 2 days. That is going to cause problems. Again, one of the things ive been learning, covering all of this, learning every day because new stuff is happening. We saw this Hurricane Harvey in houston, and how brutal that it wasnt the win there. It was the amount of water dumped into that metro area, and what that did. We just see it in other places, where if enough rainfalls, right, it just cant be absorbed. Its got to go somewhere. Ive got to imagine, im not an expert on this, were in places like death valley, allowing the inland empire, east of l. A. , that whole strip of what is literal desert. The ground, i mean, how does that work . What happens to that environment if you jump six inches of water in 24 hours . It immediately, almost immediately runs off. Its not like the nice topsoil we get east of the rockies. It is very hard, compacted sand. It doesnt absorb water. So the water runs off, but i have friends in palm springs, the coachella valley, mountains they are in for some of the worst flooding that area has ever seen, and the storm is lifting northward towards las vegas. Eventually into wyoming and idaho, there could be significant flooding there. But i never thought in 1 million years that the first state to be impacted by a tropical system would not be florida, texas, louisiana, its california. Its just mindblowing. And i think a lot of meteorologists feel the same way. Yeah, lets go back to circle back to that original point you made. I just want to make sure im parsing it. The atlantic tends to be warmer than the pacific, my understanding is, and that band of warm water is where those Tropical Storms develop. They go east to west. Depending on what happens, theyll go into the gulf. The florida gulf, eastern seaboard. The way that Water Temperatures in the pacific work, and it works is its usually not hot enough to support the storm. The heat is whats bringing the energy. In this case, weve got a notion that is off the scale. Its the warmest the worlds oceans have ever been. That is really the root cause of why were getting this. Thats the gasoline being poured on the flames right now. Unusually warm water in the ecuadorian pacific. You really have a combination of factors. Its not just one thing. Its a developing el nino. Could be a super el nino. The biggest since 97, 98. That warm water in the echo trail pacific. You also have more access co2 and methane contributing to the warming. And all of these factors are enabling this storm to become a major hurricane, and it probably is going to strike as a Tropical Storm, not a hurricane. But this is going to be a big deal for southern california. Possibly right on up to las vegas. Again, Midday Sunday through midday monday. A lot of climate scientists, i have to tell you, youve been covering this chris, the way this year is turning out, they are concerned, many of them are scared. Things seem to be having faster than the Climate Models we are predicting ten years ago. Thats what im hearing. To paul douglas, thank you very much. That is all in on this friday night. Alex wagner tonight starts right now. Good evening alex. Good evening. Yeah. Everything is happening a lot faster than we thought it would. Thats terrifying. Thank you my friend. It is pretty scary