capitol grounds during the day of the insurrection. until now. today photos and videos emerging that appear to place an architect of the fake elector plot, kenneth chesebro, in a restricted area outside the capital on january 6th. cnn breaking this, "new york times" reporting on it. chesebro named an unindicted coconspirator by special counsel jack smith charged with seven counts of conspiracy. here it is, everybody. this video from outside the capitol on january 6th that appears to be chesebro on your screen in a red maga hat and dark jacket. he's captured in several clips along with infowars host and fake tan enthusiast alex jones. some of the photos and videos, quote, stop the steal organizer allie alexander. we have not seen any evidence to suggest he went inside the capitol building or that he committed any violent acts. you're looking at a freeze frame of one of the clips. chesebro in a grassy area in the red maga hat at the center of the frame. he's holding a phone up and appears to be filming. here he is again in a different area looking around, a thick crowd around him. the video briefly becomes grainy. he puts his hand up and wipes his mouth. no comment yet from chesebro's lawyer on the revelations. now, when chesebro was asked by the january 6th committee whether he had any direct communications with donald trump about the election or the january 6th joint session of congress, he asserted his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. chesebro also pleaded the fifth when asked whether he was in washington, d.c. during the first week of january leading up to the joint session. quote, i think just on that subject in terms of presidents and washington, d.c., i think i'll just take the fifth amendment and to the whole subject matter. weeks ago his december 6, 2020 memo, outlining a strategy to overturn biden's win. this newly surfaced video offering a key link between the plans to overturn the election of joe biden and the storming of the capitol. joining me is david corn, washington bureau chief for "mother jones." his book," american psychosis of the gop" coming out next month, and prosecutor joyce vance. this is huge to me, right? because what you had, a lot of these people working on the fake electors scheme, they could always kind of argue, hey, i was just talking, this was just -- i was just speculating, this is a bunch of friends and i throwing ideas up against the wall. we weren't connected to any of the violence. but when you have one of the people on the fake electors scheme actually at the capitol, that's a pretty strong link, that's the kind of thing that should put you in legal and possibly jail jeopardy, correct? >> it's utterly fascinating, because it's tough to say that you're a lawyer sitting in your office researching the law and providing people with legal advice when you're trailing alex jones around the capitol, videotaping comments that he's making. you know, jason, something that's interesting here is how much of this did doj know? presumably they're already in the loop on this and they know what to make of it. but it is absolutely a tantalizing piece of information, because as a prosecutor, it would lead you to follow up to find out how this happened and what the relationships were like. is there some sort of a link here between the organizers of the coup and folks who engaged in violence on january 6th? or is something else going on here? lots of unanswered but very interesting questions. >> it points out something that's always galled me about these wannabe and actual terrorists on january 6th. why did they have to film everything? it's the most ridiculous thing in the world that they filmed themselves, which is why we're able to sort of track some of these people down. david, this is the other part about this that i think is really important. kind of want your insight. we have the guy going from theorist to possible activist, possibly being on the ground for this actual violence. what do you think this also says about other people who may have been involved? here's the thing. you have a lot of people from fake electors to people coming up with a theory to people who just provided cars and everything else like that who were also at january 6th. do you think now that this video has come out, there may be other people checking their phones, checking their instagrams, checking rumble, to make sure that they're not caught too? i don't think this is the last guy is going to get caught on camera. >> i think it's important to keep in mind that everything was intertwined. interrelated. rudy giuliani wanted to take advantage of the violence on january 6th. donald trump wanted to. he was -- whether or not he woke up that morning with an actual plan to commit violence to forestall the certification of joe biden's election or not, when it started happening, he said, whoa, this looks pretty good to me. he was on the phone. he called rudy, he called other people during the day. we still don't know all the contents of those calls. he was obviously trying to use and exploit the moment this horrific moment, doing nothing to stop the violence, trying to take advantage of it. and we do know too that rudy and others are saying, january 6th is key. if we can bring pressure to bear which included the protests, that could delay the certification of biden's election. and so it all kind of emerged or materialized the way they wanted it. i find it incredibly interesting and intriguing that kenneth chesebro, the guy who was the intellectual author of the scheme, is spending his day, january 6th, trailing and filming alex jones, one of the biggest conspiracy theory nutballs we have, you know, who generated a lot of the energy that went into the january 6th event. i mean, why is this lawyer, a guy who used to work for lawrence tribe and who went to har vards, hanging out with alex jones, a known liar and propagandist? that indicates to me that whatever theories he may have come up with, they were coming from a pretty dark, spear torial place. >> well and also it's very difficult to claim, i had no interest in robbing a bank when i woke up this morning, but i just happened to be downtown at the first national bank with a gun in my pocket with three other guys and a getaway car. how did this end up happening, even though i had no intention of robbing the bank? joyce, i want to point out in the context of this, we're seeing more and more people from trump world, not that i give any of these people any excuses, finally coming forward and saying this looks bad, i don't think anybody can get out of it. we have a sound bite from bill barr, not a man who's been overly concerned about our sovereignty over the last six or seven years, talking about donald trump and these indictments. i want to play this sound and get your thoughts on the other side. >> you don't get immunity for two years and run up to an election just by saying, hey, i'm a candidate, you can't try me. these investigations have been going on for a while, everyone knew about them even before he announced his candidacy. so if there's a chance to get it resolved before the election, it should be. >> i mean, joyce, it seems pretty clear to me that even someone who really supported a lot of trump and his entire administration's attempts to undermine our sovereignty and undermine this election, basically saying, yeah, man, you're kind of done here? >> so i think any effort by bill barr to pretend that he's on the good side of history is a little bit galling at this point. but taking his comment at face value, this notion that if it's possible to try the cases before the election, they should be tried, seems to be almost self-proving. it's not remarkable coming from bill barr or anyone else. people are entitled to justice. americans are as entitled to a speedy trial as the defendant is. whether or not that's something that can be achieved in any of the four pending prosecutions remains to be seen. as a principle, though, it seems very unremarkable and something that we should all believe is something the criminal justice system should aspire to do. >> i want to add also, and i'm glad you made this point, i don't care if it's william barr, i don't care if it's chris christie, i don't care if it's rudy giuliani. any of these people who are involved in this administration cannot turn around today and say the most minimal of things and then expect us to believe that they're on the right side of history or that they're decent people. they are part of why we're in this situation to begin with. so no whitewashing here, we don't do that. i also want to take this to you, david. so we have a full screen here from june of 2022 from "the new york times." chesebro cited fears over january 6th as a way to instigate the supreme court to intervene. this is huge. i really want your thoughts on this. email exchange with eastman and chesebro, including a request when appears to have been denied that the trump campaign pay for an effort to get another case in front of the supreme court. "i think the odds of action before january 6th will become more favorable? the justices start to fear that there will be wild chaos on january 6th unless they rule by then either way." david, basically he's saying, we can scare these people into doing things our way. our theories aren't going to be strong enough to get the justices to rule in our favor, so we're going to use violence and the threat of violence. that to me is a textbook case of terrorism. what's your thought when you hear this? >> yeah, we have other parts of that memo and other memos in which chesebro said, i don't think the supreme court is going to go for our overall theory here. but what he was trying to do was gin up chaos. a lot of lawsuits. a lot of things back and forth. uncertainty. that's what they wanted to do. you see, they had no evidence. if they had evidence, they would have presented it. even donald trump canceled his big monday press conference where he was finally, finally, finally going to give us the evidence. if they had evidence, they would present it. instead what they did is try to create this chaos, this uncertainty that would somehow appeal to the conservative republican-appointed justices on the supreme court so they would somehow call a halt to things and say, state legislators go back and look at this, let's not have the decision made on january 6th. you know, so there was no reality here. gas all just trying to stir the pot and trump was doing that rhetorically. his allies are doing that on the ground with stop the steal. protests and rallies that happened before january 6th. then this is why, i think, fani willis in atlanta and joyce can speak to this better can i can, is coming up with the rico charge. because everybody had a piece of the pie. they all were working the same direction. not always on the same events, but they all had that same lodestar which was fraudulence and chaos to do something to keep trump in power. >> david corn, it is always a pleasure. thank you so much for starting us off on "the beat." bran a copy of his book," american psychosis." it comes out in paperback in september. definitely pick it up. joyce vance, we have more to get to as we learn about new details about a central player in the electors plot who was indicted in georgia, who worked for trump for years. later, the new move trump made that suggests he is nervous about prosecutors' evidence. what trump's criminal indictment reveals about swid spread voter suppression in 60 seconds. meet the team... behind the team. the coach. the manager. and the snack dad. all using chase to keep up with their finances. the coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. anddd check this out... the manager deposited a check. magic. and the snack dad? he's getting paid back. orange slicesss. because this team all has chase. smart bankers. convenient tools. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. 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(vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. now to a once-obscure trump figure coming into focus as a key player in the efforts to overturn the 20 election. new details on this man. >> michael a. roman. >> trump campaign staffers michael roman -- >> michael roman worked on the plan to name fraudulent trump electors. >> mike roman, that's the trump campaign official who was handling fake electors in that time period. >> mike roman may have actually the perfect resume for someone running a scheme to overturn an election. >> mike roman coming under scrutiny, one of the 18 trump allies indicted in georgia. you see him there, a former trump white house staffer turned campaign official accused of being a central player in the fake electors scheme. roman is charges with conspiracy to commit forgery and filing false documents among other charges. former federal prosecutor joyce vance writing, "roman had an interest in propagating false claims of voter fraud as far as the '90s." the georgia indictment accuses roman of, instructing an unindicted coconspirator to coordinate the effort to contact state legislators in georgia and elsewhere. he pled the fifth to questions about the elector plot. "rudy giuliani's team designated roman as the lead for executing the fake elector voting." the committee also concluding, "roman dispatched his deputy to deliver the fake elector certificates to congress on january 6th." although the committee does not know where the fake votes were delivered, tonight roman under a special type of pressure. a longtime political operative threatened with years of jail time, who may be tempted to flip on some of the biggest fish in the alleged scheme. joyce vance, former federal prosecute history drove a lot of that research, i want to start with this. it's kind of like, you know, you shine a light in a darkened corner, all of a sudden little critters start running away and roaches and vermin scatter. as we're putting light on these indictments in georgia, we're seeing all sorts of people we've never heard of who were intimately, deeply involved in this plot to overturn the 2020 election. and they've been working on this stuff for years. what makes roman stick out? what's unique or not unique about him in this particular case? >> so here's the most important thing about roman if you're a prosecutor. roman was in a position to have conversations directly with donald trump about the fake electors scheme. he was asked about those conversations by the january 6th committee. he took the fifth, presumably thinking his answers could have incriminated him. as a prosecutor, he would be high on my list of folks to try to flip, both in the federal investigation and here in georgia. interestingly, there was reporting before jack smith brought his own federal election fraud indictment that there was consideration that roman was talking with prosecutors. it doesn't look that way now. but things can change. >> here's the thing. roman, you wrote roman works for the koch brothers, made over $200,000 for voter suppression work before becoming an advisor. he ran a secretive in-house intelligence unit for the conservative koch brothers organization. what kind of voter suppression work was he doing? here's the thing. there is no greater voter suppression than fake electors, right? you're trying to suppress the votes of everybody in the majority who voted for joe biden. what was he doing at a local level for the koch brothers? >> so historically, when we talk about voter suspension, we talk about efforts to prevent certain populations from voting. and most often, in most parts of the country, that means black people and/or democrats. so roman is involved in some of these granular-level efforts in pennsylvania, this race in 1993, where they actually get the candidate that he's working for elected. because they allege that there's fraud involved in absentee ballots. this is the sort of thing that folks who did voting rights work in the south heard for decades. dead people are voting. people who aren't entitled to voter voting. it was trump who put that on steroids and took this notion to a new level. >> and this is the thing. i'm glad that you're pointing this out, that this goes all the way back to the 1990s, the days of bill clinton and friendship rings and swatch watches and stuff. because i want people to understand, this is not new. it's just gotten more sophisticated. everybody involved in voter suppression isn't stephen miller. it isn't karl rove. it isn't boris epstein. it is regular people, men and women who have been actively engaged in trying to keep america from functioning properly for a long time. now they just happen to be getting busted. i also think it's important, you point out that the indictment in georgia means roman probably didn't cooperate. if i'm facing real jail time and i'm facing real jail time in georgia, is there an opportunity for some of these people who have already been indicted to go in and plead and say, hey, look, i'm not trying to serve real time, do you think he's the kind of person who would flip? he's so far down the totem pole, i don't see a situation where trump world is going to be offering him a lot of money for his legal defense. >> you know, it's hard to say. you would think that he would be someone who would have wanted to cooperate and offer testimony, if it's true that he was approached before the federal indictment came down. it doesn't make a lot of sense. often the first cooperator in gets the best deal. >> right. >> he could really spare himself a lot of trouble if he was willing to do that. but the fact that willis has indicted him, it would be very unusual for someone to cooperate in one case and not the other. because the minute that you testify, which is the value that he would bring here that would get him a deal -- once he tells the truth in court, say in a federal case, then fani willis can use that against him to convict him in georgia. it's got to be a global plea and cooperation deal or none at all. >> joyce vance, thank you so much for bringing this to us this evening on "the beat." coming up, the move donald trump just made that has experts saying he must be truly shook about the evidence in georgia. living with hiv, i learned that i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: i stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about switching to dovato. 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as a lawyer, if you told your client, don't speak, what are you saying about the sort of reliability of that client? what are you saying about the chances of your case folding together if you're terrified of your client holding a press conference? >> its could be saying a couple of things, jason, in reality. one, you could be saying to your client, if you keep talking, it's only going to get worse for you. in other words, this court of public opinion you've been playing in is very different from the field you're about to play in, and that is the fulton county courtroom in front of fulton county jurors with a prosecutor who is known to be about that business. fani willis has a reputation of bringing the smoke. so drew fenling, trump's lead lawyer in fulton county, an experienced defense lawyer. former president of the national association of criminal defense lawyers, very savvy. i would be very surprised if drew ever let a client give a press conference alone ahead of an arraignment, ahead of surrender. that's one thing. he could be saying, listen, you're not going to make it worse for yourself. the other thing is, maybe there is some evidence that drew has and he's just not prepared to present it publicly. we don't know. we'll see. but i suspect it's the former, as opposed to the latter. >> you know, i have been highly critical of brian kemp, governor of georgia, for many reasons that he has completely earned. there's one thing in particular, i'm sort of fascinated by his reaction to these indictments. i want to play you some sound about his thoughts on these indictments and get your thoughts on the other side. >> so, you know, i'm sure i will be a witness in whatever goes forward, so i really can't say much about the indictment. one thing is certain about these indictments, in my mind, in my opinion -- this trial, despite what dates anybody's asking for, anything else, it is not going to happen before the election. >> tanya, i want to add, you've got the governor saying it's not going to happen before the election, despite the fact da willis has said, we're trying this for march. you have some state legislators in georgia saying, we want to review the indictment. you are in the statehouse. is there any mechanism by which local elected officials, republicans in georgia, could stymie this process? could stymie da willis' ability to bring justice and hold these people accountable? is there anything that kemp, other people, could do? >> no, this is political posturing. look, i think as a practical matter, governor kemp is probably right. i think bringing a case like this to trial that fast is pretty ambitious. i understand why madam da wants to do it, but you've got to bake in all the stuff that happens with high-profile defendants, high-profile clients, a complicated indictment. there will be lots of legal challenges, lots of motions. some of which may be appealed to the georgia supreme court and higher. so there's all this stuff that's baked in that really is probably going to make this case difficult to bring forward to trial by march. so that's number one. to your second question, absolutely not. the georgia general assembly and those folks that are talking about impeaching the district attorney and trying to meddle in the executive branch in doing what the executive branch does, they are pandering to their base. what they're doing is squealing. what they're doing is trying to send a signal that, hey, you know, we're still down with trump, and certainly we think there's something that can be done, but in reality there's nothing that can be done. this train has left the station. this case will be handled in a court of law. it will not be dealt with in the georgia general assembly. >> yeah, everybody shows up until the folding chairs appear. i figured a lot of this was political talk on their behalf. i want to find out very quickly, and we only have a couple of seconds, how safe do people feel down there in georgia? is there real fear on the ground about upridings and local political violence as these indictments have come out? >> absolutely, yes. we saw what happened in our nation's capital. if our nation's capitol isn't safe, certainly our fulton county courthouse feels some kind of way about the fact that all of that craziness associated with the former president might be coming to our county. so there is definitely a heightened sense of fear and a need for security. we want to protect our system, protect the folks who work in our system, and of course protect our jurors that are important and integral to the process that happens in every court across the country, and certainly in fulton county, georgia. >> representative tanya miller, thank you so much for joining me this evening on "the beat." >> a pleasure. ahead, what trump's georgia indictment means for voting rights and the fight ahead of 2024. after advil dual action back pain... yo! uh! ha! ha! 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[voice vibrating] it's been a bruising week for defendant donald trump, facing a new set of charges for election crimes in georgia. accountability for trump coming at the state level and the federal level. special counsel jack smith also alleging trump plotted to illegally discount legitimate votes, interfering with the sacred right to vote and to have your vote counted. that gets to the heart of what this is all about. yeah, trump was desperately trying to cling to power for his own personal gain, but his alleged actions amount to widespread voter suppression. but of broader republican push to make it harder to vote after record turnout in 2020. so far over 300 anti-voting bills have been introduced in 45 states. georgia is one of the most prominent battlegrounds. >> governor kemp has signed that controversial election bill. >> the new law limits ballot drop boxes, makes it a misdemeanor to hand out food and beverages in voting lines, and requires a photo i.d. to vote absentee. >> georgia will take another step toward ensuring our elections are secure. >> the aclu of georgia and other organizations are claiming the law restricts absentee voting and discriminates against black voters. >> president biden today called the georgia law an atrocity. >> it's anti-democratic. it's unamerican. >> and so here's the big question. though trump's moment of reckoning has finally come, will it curb the attacks on voting rights? joining me to discuss, a longtime voting activist isse, founder of the new superpac. thank you for joining us. i keep pointing out to people, he didn't get nearly as much smoke as abbott in texas or huckabee in arkansas or desantis in florida. but isn't brian kemp just as terrible, if not worse, than any of these other governors when it comes to suppressing the vote on the ground in georgia? and isn't that sort of highlighted again if his sort of ambivalence about the conspiracy happening in his state, under his nose, with donald trump? >> absolutely. and i will remind your audience that governor kemp was the secretary of state in 2018 when he ran for georgia. secretary of state, for all intents and purposes, is the chief elections officer. the person responsible for maintaining the integrity of the election. he was sued several times by my organization and others for continuing georgia's long history of voter suppression, particularly targeting african americans and young people. and he refused to resign as secretary of state while he was running for governor. in fact, he didn't resign until it was time for him to be inaugurated as governor of the election which he also oversaw, when he was playing on the field and the referee. so yes, absolutely. >> isse, one of the things also, i want people to understand this. again, sometimes we get -- we're looking at this from 3,000 feet away. oh, wow, this is part of trump, this is part of january 6th, this is part of what happened. but this conspiracy, the fake electors, you know, attacking voting machines, being abusive and threatening local election workers that had an impact on the ground. talk a little bit about how fani willis' indictments sort of highlight the challenges that you face on the ground in georgia and how this conspiracy was a lot bigger than i think some people realize. >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, not to invoke political phrasing from decades past, but it was a vast right-wing conspiracy to overturn the results of the election, to interfere with elections. not only in georgia, but also in wisconsin, in pennsylvania, in michigan, targeting cities in particular with large black voting blocs in their cities. when you think about the scope and the scale of the conspiracy, of the effort to interfere with the elections, identifying 535 alternative electors, having them sign affidavits, forging documents, impersonating officers, public officers. that there were elected officials, current office holders from the state of georgia, who were also participating in this. and it literally goes to the highest levels of both our federal and state government. so for people who think that this is just one man's bad behavior, and even if he was lying it wasn't criminal, or even if they're willing to expand it to his 18 named coconspirators or 30 unnamed, unindicted coconspirators, that it is so much larger than this. and that's why d.a. willis is bringing in the rico statute, that it is a tool that allows the state to sort of tell the full story. the breadth of staff and resources that were committed by the trump presidential campaign, the trump organization, is in fact, you know -- they are going to present evidence that they were functioning as a criminal enterprise. and so again, this is not one man's bad behavior, that this was, in fact -- it appears to be a conspiracy with dozens if not hundreds of people, including elected officials and donors. >> one thing i want to point out very quickly, this hasn't stopped, right? brian kemp has passed these kinds of laws. even if this particular plan to overturn the federal election may be stopped now because of d.a. willis' indictments, it doesn't mean there aren't still people in trump are trump world on the ground trying to guarantee his victory in georgia in 2024, right? >> yeah, no, i would tell you that between brian concern and the disgraced former president of the united states, donald trump, they are both in their ditty bags. they can't stop, they won't stop. they are going to continue on this path. we saw it. it didn't stop in 2020 when trump lost 50 lawsuits. it didn't stop in 2021 when the democrats got a governing trifecta with the house, the senate, and the white house. it didn't stop in the 2022 legislative session. in fact, it has spread. so there are trump types running for state government, trump types running for municipal government. the attacks on the vote. the attacks on absentee balloting. the misinformation. the disinformation. those things continue, as well as the threats of escalating violence. >> nse ufa, thank you for joining me on "the beat." check out "a word with jason johnson." nse is my special guest. we get into the mess in georgia and what you can do about it. new episodes drop every friday. coming up, a sports fairytale turned nightmare. why the former football star who inspired the oscar nominated movie "the blind side" is now crying foul. ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ my a1c was up here; now, it's down with rybelsus®. vhis a1c? 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don't you dare lie to me. >> i've seen that look many times. she's about to get her way. >> come on. come on. >> that's a scene from the oscar nominated movie "the blind side," a heartwarming tale about a white savior family adopting a black child with learning disabilities, michael oher, who went on to nfl stardom. except in real life, the story is not so simple. in real life michael oher just filed a lawsuit against the family saying he was lied to and exploited for the family's financial gain. he said the family tricked him into signing a document making them his conserve to have fors instead of adoptive parents and used their power as conservators to strike a deal that paid them millions of dollars in royalties from an oscar award winning film. oher says he didn't make any move from the movie. the family lawyer says oher knew about the arrangement, even though the kid was only 18 at the time. this week the family said it would dissolve the conservatorship. but this goes beyond just michael oher. this exploitation of poor, often black and brown kids for financial gain in sports case os athletic program. famed as a football powerhouse, the school now trying to leave its current ncaa conference so it can join a different one with higher paying tv deals. but here's the catch. florida state would have to pay $120 million to get out of its current conference. so it's looking to cut a deal with jpmorgan chase and a private equity firm. the bankers would help fund the move to a new conference, then take some of the profits from future sponsorships and tv rights. see, everybody wins. you know, except for the athletes themselves, the kids who break their bodies and arms and are trying to do all this athletic stuff while playing sports. i guess that's something michael oher can relate to. joining me to discuss is bomani jones, hip-hop enthusiast and former host of game theory. big fan of urwork. great to talk to you. i have to start with this. this situation with michael oher to me is just a microcosm of what we see happening in sports all the time. we always hear these stoies of the kid who had a broken home, ends up moving with the coach or some family and finds out he's getting kickbacks. has this story breaking made other athletes re-evaluate maybe, hey, maybe coach wasn't looking out for me when i went to school x, y, or z, or are people saying he should have known better? >> yeah, i think that this story is anomalous, that's part of why this could turn the to a book and movie. i don't think many people could look up and say i have to look at these white people who took me into my home and re-evaluate these decisions they made. not too many people have that in their history. to me, when you talk about the blind side and all the things that have come up with this lawsuit, this seems to be a little les to me than a straight sports exploitation story than it is just a look at the way we frame stories. the reason we're talking about this and this is a national discourse is really about the framing of the book, the blind side, which then leads into the movie. and the fact is, none of that stuff was about michael oher. like, we have to stop and do the math on this. the hero of that story, of overcoming all these trials and tribulations to get to the nfl, the hero of that is michael oher. the positioning of the stories makes the heroes the tewies. what that's meant is this is a cottage industry off being the family from the blind side that they have been able to make money off of. it's not about the script. i'm willing to bet they didn't get much money off that movie because hollywood ain't trying to pay anybody if they don't have to. that's the brand of who they are and they have been able to make more off that prand of who they are than michael oher ever has been able to do, and that starts with the framing of hollywood. >> i want to turn this a bit to this florida state situation. you have got a state school which is trying to find a way to pay $120 million so tay can make more money and are partnering with a private equity firm. all this hundreds of millions of cash spinning around. politicians getting kickbacks. we found out senator tommy tuberville makes residuals off the blind side. got a lot of local elected officials and federal officials who make money and are getting kickbacks from these schools changing conferences. is there a move or is anybody sort of ringing the bell, the clarion call about the fact if we're having this much money exchanges in and around the ncaa, we need to do something more than just name and likeness to compensate these players? when banks are getting involved and students get nothing, it seems like a problem. >> that's been a discussion at various levels for decades, and we did something on game theory specifically about this point because most athletes don't get anything off name, image, and likeness, but the alarm to be rung out is you have to hit people with the things they care about. for florida state, the move to another conference, i think part of that has to do with money, certainly, but a lot of that money part has to do with the fact they don't believe they'll be able to remain competitive with the schools they want to be competitive in. one thing about this thing with college sports, it's kind of profit maximizing but not really because they had to burn the cash so it doesn't look like an actual business. they really care about winning. there's identity politics and everything else that gets thrown into that. when that becomes important, when is the last time you heard about a private equity firm buying into an operation and the quality of the product got better? i can't think of the last time it happened. the strategy is typically to go in, strip it down to the screws, make it cheap, and then try to sell it again. that would be a terrifying notion if i was a florida state fan because nobody is getting paid dividends off this football program. it exists largely to make people feel good. private equity makes people feel bad. >> bomani jones, thank you for joining us tonight on "the beat." we'll be right back. big, we'll have you saying... am i a big deal? yeah you are, because it's a big deal, when you get a big deal. wayfair deals so big that you might get a big head. because with savings so real... you can get your dream sofa for half the price. wayfair. it's always a big deal. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ [city ambience sounds] [car screech] [car door slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. 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"the reidout" with joy reid is up next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> at the end of the day, at the core of this thing, he engaged in the case of the documents an outrageous behavior where anyone would be prosecuted. i don't know of any attorney general who could walk away from it. >> you might want to check the mirror, bill barr, because you're also saying that you would still consider voting for trump if he wins

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