Through friday. Ill take it. Lets be clear, i do not think that you are more important then the Inflation Reduction Act, but i do i do think that you are better, and i am more excited about your anniversary. I thank you for that. You have not known the Inflation Reduction Act for what is it my god, 25 years . And you have that. I will take it. Im just thrilled to have this kind of with you every four days a week chris. It is the thing that brings me joy, my friend. Happy anniversary. Thanks, buddy. Thanks for a great show, as always. Nks, buddy thanks to you at home for joining me this hour once again. We now have a date, march 4th, 2024. That is the day that Fulton County district attorney, fani willis, proposed her case against trump and his 18 codefendants that is the date that she would like to put it to trial. Just two months after the january 2nd date that Special Counsel jack smith proposed for the federal case against trumps attempts to overturn the 2020 election. And it would be just three weeks before trumps Hush Money Case is set to start in new york. It would be just two months before the start of jack smiths maralago classified documents case which is on may 20th and it would be just one day before super tuesday. That means just 200 days from tomorrow trump and his codefendants could be in a potentially televised courtroom battling this all out just one day before the biggest day on the republican primary calendar trump and the rest of the defendants will file whatever files they want. The decisions will be made by this case in particular but we will put that calendar back up for a second. Trumps 2024 calendar is already so jampacked with legal troubles where else on the calendar is there a window for this georgia case if not in march . We will get some expert legal help in just a second. But first, i want to talk about the other reason that trumps 2024 legal calendar is problematic for him. It is tearing a hole in his wallet. The New York Times reports that in the First Six Months of this year, trump raised about 67 million, which she has, is an eyepopping sign. But in the same period of time, trump spent 90 million. And 30 cents of every dollar that they spent was on legal fees, and other investigation related bills. 27 million to fight his legal troubles in just the First Six Months of the year. A period of time when he was only facing two criminal indictments instead of the current form. Those are big expenses. Seemingly unsustainable expenses. Now, in hearing for the federal 2020 election case in d. C. Last friday, one of trumps lawyers mentioned that they planned to use Volunteer Lawyers to help handle the case. Volunteer lawyers, presumably not the kind of lawyers who are paid, definitely cheap, and that could be the reason why they are talking about Volunteer Lawyers. But trump does not have that many paid lawyers representing him. There are only ten lawyers heading up trumps various Legal Defense teams in the for criminal cases against him. I know any amount of lawyers is a lot of lawyers to a normal person. But for a former president facing 91 felony charges, this seems like it small number of people. One lawyer is representing trump three times over. Todd blanche is on three different cases. And if former President Trump is already hemorrhaging cash with this small, shall we say, elite group of lawyers, then he might need to bring in Volunteer Staff to help manage the defense for 91 felony counts. And then, of course, there are legal bills from trumps codefendants. Bills at trump in his various packs are paying. People like trumps ballot and property manager, carlos de oliveira, those fellows from the maralago case. Those are just the people that we know trump and his packs are paying the legal bills for. Thanks to the georgia Indictment Trump has 18 more codefendants. That means 18 more people facing potentially serious jail time her needing to figure out how to pay their legal bills. And that might be problematic for more than just trumps involvement. Today, former trump attorney and Current Trump codefendant, jenna ellis, turned to a Christian Crowdfunding website to raise cash for her Legal Defense. You can send money or you can send digital prayers to help her defend herself in this case in georgia. And there are a lot of potential. Doesnt mean trump is not footing jenna elliss legal bills . What does that mean for the rest of the defendants in this case . The moment where trump needs to be doing everything that he can to keep all of his codefendants an alleged coconspirators on his side as these numerous and considerable legal troubles plowed his future, how long can trump afford to pay other peoples lawyers, and for that matter, his own . Joining me now are mary mccord, former activist and Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the Department Of Justice, and former fbi General Counsel and member of special Counsel Robert Mueller investigation. Mary and andrew are the cohost of the msnbc Podcast Prosecuting donald trump where i get all of my good ideas for things to talk about on television. Andrew, the burn rate in terms of trumps packs spending money on these legal problems is staggering. That was all the data we had from before these latest indictments landed. Does this seem problematic to you as it does to me, a person on the outside . I had a couple of thoughts, one, just to put it into perspective, there are many, many people in the federal and state system who cant afford counsel at all. And it is constitutional requirements that they can share that council paid for. Its a dual system of justice that we have here. But unfortunately, with money, comes power. And you see it whether it is an Organized Crime Prosecution that ive done in the past, where you have house counsel. Ive seen it in the corporate setting where corporations pay for council for individuals and some of these people do their job and they represent the person as they should independently. But there are subtle and not so subtle pressures and we have seen it in this very case. Cassidy hutchinson gave us explicit testimony about how she was given trump appointed counsel. And she actually said, she asked, who is paying for my counsel . And her counsel, if this is true, completely they said dont worry your head about it. Which is unreal. She was entitled to know that. So that is the way in which money can be used to keep everybody in line and inside the tent. And with the first thing i said when i saw that there were 18 codefendants here, as we saw, there are two in the documents case, is how do you keep these because in the georgia case, these are all potential cooperators, because there is no federal pardon with respect to those cases. Those people are really facing realtime and the proof on some of them looks really strong. So, he needs to be able to figure out how is he going to do that. And money, supporting that in terms of their counsel, is one way to do that. Hes learned his lesson from michael cohen, who when we were prosecuting him in the mueller investigation, the spigot was turned off, and he felt abandoned. So that is the downside. Paying for the lawyers as one of the main ways, it seems, that trump has influence, in terms of loyalty, when it comes to potential codefendants singing to the feds or not. Saying i have your back, or it could be a real issue for some of these people, this is having retained councils opposed to accountable counsel. It is really expensive. So in addition to being indicted, is not like you just wake up and say that this is a great day, i was just indicted, but then you have to spend, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not more for counsel in a case like this. Which is a big, sprawling case. So, having somebody who is going to be a benefactor is important. One would hope that benefactor actually has to cash in his pockets to do the thing that you are hoping the benefactor does. Donald trump does have a way of raising money. I wouldnt be surprised if there was more money that will come from somewhere. What is going on with Volunteer Lawyers . Is that a usual thing . And what does it signal to you about the council that he does have in some of these cases . Well, pro bono lawyering it is well known, particularly in the public interest, my day job is running a pro bono shop, The Institute For Constitutional Advocacy and protection, and we do all of our work pro bono. But that is usually not representing a candidate for president , who has been well financed and portrayed himself as a billionaire for decades and who is facing criminal charges in four different states and different federal cases as well. It is a very different type of thing to think about volunteer lawyering. And i have not had time to look into this yet. But i do think that any Volunteer Lawyers will have to also look into whether their contributions could be perceived to be political donations because that could put some restrictions on that. But i think that there are other things that are significant about what we are seeing with Donald Trumps legal problems. One, weve been talking now about how much he has spent on legal representation and how few lawyers he has on his team. I would know that we reported that he was left high and dry in many of his former lawyers who are now his Codependency Fani Willis Case and are unindicted coconspirators and the jacques midjanuary 6threlated case. I think that the lawyers, whether they want to be volunteering, or dont want to be volunteering, ought to go into this thinking, there is a good chance i am not going to get paid, and that could certainly dissuade lawyers who are expecting to be paid from representing mr. Trump. I think that it also is a deterrent for additional lawyers or others in the future to hitch their wagon to mr. Trump who has a habit, we now see, of dragging people into a situation where they face their own criminal liability like we are seeing in these indictments particularly the georgia indictment. And third, most of the legal bills, as i understand it now, are being paid by one of his pacts, the save america pact, and this is a pack that recruited and sought money based on false claims of Election Fraud. And at some point, the people making those, in many cases, small dollar gifts have got to think through. Do they want their money to be going to defending these multiple criminal cases . He shifting gears, as we just indicated, to explicitly fundraising on arguing he is the victim of political persecution and political prosecution. But still, for the people, the many people out there who do not have substantial means, and are contributing some of their income to these pacts, for these reasons, they may start thinking twice as so many more cases are piling up on him. They make a point about who is actually working for donald trump in terms of council. Maybe because he is such a difficult client, or notoriously tight fisted client who doesnt pay his bills, we are not talking about big law firms here. John lauro, who is defending trump in the federal cases, his website says that they have for lawyers and paralegals. Todd blanche, who is representing him in three of these cases, said that there are two lawyers. We are talking about cases where the discovery in the federal case, 11. 6 million documents, i know this is kind of one of the excuses that trumps team has said we cannot get through all of this in this time but there are two people in the shop and what can you tell me about the barebones nature of his counsel, given the mountain of evidence the feds have, the dea has and how they are going to plow through that two Assembly Defense . Well, it is interesting, because it is a two edged sword in the d. C. Case because you have jack smith who is saying i want a fast trial. We will see the same thing playing out in the georgia case. Where fani willis is now saying that he wants a march trial. And at the same time, the defense gets to say, there is a huge amount of resources needed to get through this. So one of the things that was argued before judge chutkan in the d. C. Case, was could you give sensitive material to Volunteer Lawyers as mary talked about . The judge was basically, like i really dont want Volunteer Lawyers. Because that opens a real pandoras box of exactly who is getting if they are employed lawyers, and that could be, by the way, discovery lawyers. People you can get who are there for but they have to be employed. She was clearly concerned about that issue. But if you are jacks mitt, that is a tough call. Because you want to get to trial. So you have to allow the defense to expand its team to get through all of this. That is where to marys point, this is somebody who has said that he is a billionaire. We are now not talking about how he can find many other people, we are just talking about his own defense. Leaving aside that he does not have big law firms for a whole variety of reasons. So, he has made zero showing that he does not have the financial wherewithal to get through all of this. Again, to repeat something that judge chutkan said, there will be a faster trial if you continue to interfere with the administration of justice. So, hes not helping himself with her ultimate decision on august 28, when she will decide when trump i wonder if he could get a big law firm because he is so toxic in the broader sense of american society. Do they really want to represent donald trump, or does the blanche law with the two lawyers, are they more inclined to . Look at their former president s. I keep on using the example of david candle. So you have somebody who is the cream of the crop where anybody in the Legal Profession is saying, okay, that is absolutely topnotch impeccable council. I am not knocking todd blanche, but they are not on the same caliber. There is a reason. Part of it is marys reason. It is a service, you should get paid for it. The other is, if you are at that stage in your career where you would have somebody, like the former president , they need to take your advice. So if you have somebody who is going to end up like mr. Corcoran, it lawyer and a witness, which is unbelievable, mary and i have talked about that, we just dont want to be in that position. It is unbelievable that Evan Corcoran is still a lawyer in this case. We have more to talk to you both about, mary and andrew, do not go anywhere. When we come back this evening, what might be going through Donald Trumps mind as he faces a trip to Fulton County lockup for the next few days . We will get insight from his niece, mary trump. Plus, Special Counsel jack smith, wanted access to Donald Trumps twitter account and he got it. The question is, why . That is next. 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