january 6th certification process. the electors plot is one of the schemes that spans from trump's early efforts in the states to wider national efforts to create confusion about the results, and it went all the way up to mike pence, all the way up to an attempted, ultimately thwarted pretext that was going to be presented by pence to help stage a coup on jan 6th. in essence it involved fraudulent electors or getting states to appoint trump electors in the states that biden won or was winning and try to send those to congress. unlike some of the other plots that we've covered, this one's already at the center of three different cases, including indictments by doj's jack smith, plus the probes in michigan and now georgia, where d.a. fani willis just charged several trump lawyers and aides for these types of plots as part of the larger rico conspiracy. that is why tonight's scoop, this video, may be of interest in the two big cases led by these tough prosecutors who mean business. >> the defendants engaged in a criminal racketeering enterprise to overturn georgia's presidential election result. >> conspireing to defraud the united states, conspireing to disenfranchise voters, and conspireing and attempting to obstruct an official proceeding. it was fueled by lies. >> we look at the facts. we look at the law, and we bring charges. >> now, jack smith's doj indictment charges one person, defendant trump, for the coup conspiracy, and then cites these other coconspirators. they might be charged later. they might not. willis' indictment charges trump and 18 others. it also names further coconspirators who might be charged later and might not. both of those cases, conspiracy and racketeering, treat these elector efforts as part of the larger criminal plot. we know trump aides were pushing versions of this out in the state as early as november 18th, 2020. ken cheseboro put the plot in writing in early december. rudy giuliani led a process to get trump fans to lie. the key point is the when many of those efforts that have been documented that we know about were picking up steam by early december, and the who, because top trump aides and lawyers have been identified in the elector fraud process, like giuliani, as mentioned, boris epshteyn who has not been charged, kenneth cheseboro, and there's another long time aide, machine who worked with trump longer than any of the people you see identified on your screen, and that brings us to the new tape i'm about to play for you. there's a clue here about involvement by another individual who, according to what we can glean from both those speaking indictments has not been as firmly linked to these plots, though he was notably seen in washington with trump allies and some militias on january 6th. the person that i'm talking about in this video a former nixon aide, a self-described dirty trickster and long time trump adviser roger stone. we identify him here for the first time in this plot tonight based on the hard evidence, not some tip or secondhand hearsay. so with the calendar and legal context in mind, we turn to the scoop. we're now going to play for you so you may listen to this new exclusive video, edited for clarity, as roger stone works with an associate to dictate his plans and arguments for how they had a plan as early as early november -- that's how early this was -- in states that biden won or was winning where republican politicians would try to, quote, as stone puts it, send in electors who reflect president trump's, quote, victory. >> although state officials in all 50 states must ultimately certify the results of the voting in their state, the final decision as to who the state legislatures -- authorize be sent to the electoral college is a decision made solely by the legislature. any legislative body may decide on the basis of overwhelming evidence of fraud to send electors to the electoral college who accurately reflect the president's legitimate victory in their state, which was illegally denied him through fraud. we must be prepared to lobby our republican legislalegislatures. my personal contact. and by demonstrating the overwhelming will of the people in their state -- in each state, that this may need to happen. >> that occurred and was caught on video november 5th, 2020. it is new to the world right now tonight. stone dictated that extreme plan, as you saw there, to his associate on the computer. and it was not only earlier than some of those other trump figures' plans, i mentioned, some of which are part of indictments and looming trials. let me make a clear point about this exclusive here on "the beat" tonight. that was before the presidential race had been called for biden. this is important, take a look. stone pushing the elector plot as you just saw with your own eyes all the way back on november 5th, 2020. that's a shot of the video on the left we have broken as news tonight. people had voted but the race had not been called. it was two full days later, november 7th, 2020, when the numbers and nonpartisan outlets called for biden the white house. that hurts that these officials were acting in a good faith they won. indeed, this particular piece of evidence, this video shows quite the opposite for stone. he was pushing the plot not because he believed trump won or was looking at the numbers or because the results were called. that hasn't happened yet. regardless of the results that weren't in, he was pushing this plot. stone's words on video were early -- a month before now indicted ken cheseboro penned the memo outlining the plot, long been rudy giuliani was recruiting those people. the video is by a danish documentarian christian gullbranson. it does not address if or how stone took actions beyond what he said there. in other words, was he just talking? was he just writing? or did he also join what jack smith calls a conspiracy? we know some other individuals who did more things along these lines are unindicted coconspirators or indicted racketeering conspirators in georgia this week. stone's representative declined to comment on this new video and story when reached by msnbc today. so this already is a lot. then you put it in the wider context that we know. because while it started wherever it started in early november, eventually we saw trump aides, during a period where the whole world was moving on, everyone was referring to president-elect biden and people didn't know there was an insurrection coming -- we saw signs trump aides were trying to do things in the states with elector plots, fraudulent elector plots, talk of alternate slates. that in hindsight looked worse, are part of indictments. take a look. >> we have more than enough time to right the wrong of this fraudulent election result and certify donald trump as the winner of the election. as we speak today, an alternate slate of electors in the contested states is going to vote, and we're going to send those results up the congress. >> what we seek here is verifiable ballots, certifiable ballots. until we do that, our assumption is the second trump term. >> a second trump term. that was the public push. we also know it came after the secret lawyering, some of which now is being treated by prosecutors, at least in georgia, as indicted racketeering, not valid lawyering. so, the timing matters. and again, i want to show thank you other context, because there was one other earlier message that the january 6th committee exposed as early as donald trump jr. reaching now indicted chief of staff meadows. that was on november 5th, where they talked about having states step in, put their own quote, reference to what you see there as a separate slate of trump electors. this was november 5th before it was called. film video evidence states the plot around that week. the trials will ultimately resolve that, and everyone accused is legally presumed innocent. what we see in this video airing for the first time is another piece, at least of the puzzle, whether that's a criminal puzzle or not is up to prosecutors, the law, and ultimately juries to decide. but it sure is bad, sure is incriminating for people trying to say, all they wanted to do was get to the real results or act on a good faith belief. if you are trying to steal or overthrow an election you hadn't even officially lost yet. now, this was a big scoop, and we are indebted to christopher gullbrandenson, the documentary filmmaker who obtained that footage. welcome to "the beat" tonight. >> thank you, thank you for having me. >> you were doing this work, documentary makers obviously gather all kinds of final over time, and much of it doesn't always make it very far into the films you make. some of these events look quite different after jan 6th, after this week's georgia indictment. given that we're quoting this video from you, walk us through what you think it shows and when you realized you had something, because in early november before the race was called, it might have just looked to some like one more email being dictated. >> well, i think we already realized when we were recording that this was something spectacular. i picked up roger stone at his home on november 5th, two days after the election, and i expected him to be somewhat downtrodden over the results, and biden had consolidated his lead by then. but as we drove to his workplace, he was completely -- with energy, on the phone restarting stop the steal, mobilizing people for the effort that we saw eventually culminating on january 6th. so i mean, you talk about journalism as the first draft of history, but this film and this opportunity to record this felt like -- i mean, it's history as it unfolds, so in that sense we had a strong feeling of witnessing something very wrong but also with a historic perspective. >> yeah, that's very well put. i want to you stay with me. we've plotted and plans some time here to get into this. we have a former federal prosecutor for the legal part of it, john flannery. welcome. i went through the context. let me play the short bite where we hear roger stone talk about his view, this is two days before the election was even called that any legislative body could overrule anything. take a look at the short excerpt from what we saw. >> any legislative body may decide to send electors to the electoral college who accurately reflect the president's legitimate victory in their state. >> john, others have been indicted for related efforts. what do you see in this video? do you think prosecutors would want it? do you think it's incriminating? >> oh, absolutely, and what christian just said, which nails it down, is they knew that he'd lost the election before it was announced, and that's why they began these initiatives then. in the weeks and months beforehand, they had to know what was going on. these guys are old hands at this, particular through stone. and so any prosecutor would take this to show knowledge and intent before the memos. and i think the memos are the lyrics for the songs these guys were already singing immediately after the election. two days later he's dictating this memo, and at one point i understood this went to fos, friends of stone. i don't know who's on that list, but that's important. there's a circulation of some sort, which is effective or infective. but judging by the conduct after that, by the people who are going out doing what is prescribed in that dictated memo, we know that they're already pulling together. and then to have the president's son basically breaking out the elements that conform with what stone is sending. so i think it's powerful. i think it would be powerful for any of the cases that are pending, certainly smith's, certainly georgia. >> interesting -- >> if i may add -- >> that raises questions about -- yeah, well let me do this. i wanted to say it raises questions about any contact you had with investigators. you're outside jurisdiction in a way, as well as who's on that stone's friends list. we're a quarter of the way into our hour. i'm going put our shortest break up, 60 seconds and ask you to respond when we're back in one minute. one minute the final decision as to who -- the state legislatures authorize be sent to the electoral college is a decision made solely by the legislature. you must be prepared to lobby or republican legislatures. >> trump ally roger stone there, a long time adviser to the former president now in newly obtained video -- this is an exclusive we obtained tonight, and you're hearing him say lobby the republican legislatures. that was two days before the race was called, which is significant for many reasons. our special coverage of this continues now. the documentary filmmaker behind this and john flannery. our coverage continues. we were curious if you had any knowledge about who that was being sent to and whether you have had contact with u.s. law enforcement of any kind about your work as well as anything else you wanted to share. >> yes, first off, i think it's very important who stone was communicating to, and as you just mentioned before, there was this encrypted chat group called friends of stone, or fos. there were 47 members of this group. it included ali alexander, enrique otero, stewart rhodes, and a number of other people who came to play a key part in the january 6th storm of the capitol. so he's communicating directly with the individuals who ends up being at the forefront of the attack at the capitol. but not only that -- >> let me slow you down on that point. i know i asked multiple questions, but i just want to slow you down. some of the individuals you named are convicted seditionists. some are serving long prison sentences. since you raise that and we're talking about this, that shows some of the coup efforts being shared with them, that is a trump ally telling them about this process with the states. did you see or observe anything that suggested the other flow of information, that they were telling him about violent plotting or storming the capitol in advance of the 6th? >> well, i think one of the interesting facts that was uncovered by the january 6th committee was some of this communication -- i believe that stewart rhodes actually used the friends of stone f.o.s. chat group during the attack on the capitol where he texted groups about an entrance that was open. so i think there's been some back and forth that has been documented. but the important -- there are two important points in this, i think. these individuals moved on immediately in the days after to pressure the state legislators in georgia and other states just as instructed or encouraged. that's the one point i think is important to make. then another thing for me that is very, very crucial is that in the day after january 6th, from january 6th and until inauguration day on the 20th of january, stone was horrified that he would be arrested. he was absolutely convinced that he would be one of the first to be arrested. of course that raises the question, why? >> interesting, wow. >> i was with him as he wrote president trump pleading for preemptive pardon, and that was his entire focus. and of course on the 20th when he realized that his friend trump wasn't going to pardon him, he had a complete meltdown. >> that's interesting you say he had a meltdown. he obviously had his reasons of what he was worried was going to come out. i'll add to your reporting to say of course he was seeking his second use of the pardon power. he had his prior sentence commuted. he'd be in now if trump hadn't pardoned him. quickly, have you heard from law enforcement? >> yes, we had the fbi visit us in copenhagen and had a number of meetings with them, but as a journalist and as a filmmake earthquake i'm reluctant to take part in it, in a criminal investigation. so i mean, that's basically why i'm here today. i think it's important to share that information, but i prefer by doing it, yeah, at your show, ari, to be honest. >> yeah, no, i understand the distinction, and there's a difference between when journalists open their files, notes or otherwise, there's a large body of law on that as we know. when was that contact with the fbi? >> that was in -- that was in the spring of '22. we also had a long -- a long conversation and discussions with the congressional committee, to the january 6th committee. >> yeah. john, i'm running over on time because we've done the video and gathered a lot of information here. but john your reaction to what else you think is important on this? >> well, christopher pointed out something important about the memo, and it's understated but once you know who's getting it, he makes a point of contacts and pressuring in the body of the memo. and so that fits perfectly who's on the fos list. and so that's pretty strong stuff. and then i think stone was also camped out at that hotel in washington over a period of time so that -- there's a picture here we have had in part and now we're filling in more of the details. the details are quite incriminating. christopher, i'd like to thank you. >> i'd like to, for the accuracy, i was at the hotel filming as well with roger stone, and he was not part of that war room group. i mean, he was surrounded by oath keepers. they were in his room. most of them are today in prison. but he wasn't part of the john eastman war room. >> understood. those were multiple hubs we have been tracking and you're making a factual distinction about where he was versus the other meetings. christopher, you did allude to a meltdown he had at the end of the tenure that trump really was leaving office and he wasn't getting pardoned. what did that consist of? what about it evinced a meltdown to you? >> well, he was -- well, basically he said that president trump had betrayed everybody, he had betrayed rudy giuliani and bernie carrick, the former police commissioner of new york, and he had betrayed roger stone. and trump deserved what he had coming, and a long sentence in prison would give him a chance to think about it all. that was the essence of what he said. >> striking. i take it that's not on video. >> it is on video. so, go see the film. >> all right, there you go. that's interesting. i'm way over on time in these two segments. christopher gullbranson, appreciate the work. understand the distinctions of the precision you approach it with, and we hope to have you back in the days ahead. john, always good to see you. we have a lot more coming up tonight. first of all, as we track georgia we have the former chief law enforcement official of the whole state, the former attorney general on "the beat" tonight. we're going to look at the criminal exposure. also, if you want to see that video, you saw some of it or want to see it again, we're going to be posting it on "the beat" with ari melber social accounts or youtube. go to msnbc.com/ari where you can see that newly obtained roger stone video in full. we'll be right back. nfl sunday ticket. 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(vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. i do think that the work in my office and other parts of the justice department has changed the definition of the problem of crime in america. we're going to have to attack it as a business, not just as individual crime. we have followed up with civil rico cases. there will be some point in the future where we'll destroy the power of the mafia. i was the first one to use the statute for public corruption. >> rudy giuliani this week indicted on the rico charges that he used to bring against others. we are joined now by the former republican attorney general of the state of georgia, sam olins. thanks for joining me. >> good evening, sir. >> we have spoken but not since these charges actually came down. how do you assess the strength of this case in an area of law that you know well of georgia law and the way specifically rico is deployed? >> well, clearly the case is much more favorable for the prosecutor when you add the rico count. it provides predicate acts, it provides a series of acts, of circumstances, which clearly most defense lawyers don't want. they'd prefer not to have a rico count as part of the prosecution. it's very detailed. they spent an awful lot of time. i think many of us did not expect so much energy on nevada, michigan, arizona, other states within the context, but it's a strong document. sam, there are people who might not know a lot about what the criminal exposure is. there are people who were sort of pulled into some of this. but i just showed giuliani, who is not only a lawyer, but a former prosecutor who used rico. we've seen other lawyers swept up in it. the people who do know about rico tend to be prosecutors and lawyers and people familiar with criminal activity, however they got familiar with it. you maybe know that there's a song called "rico", where drake says everyone's home for the summer, let's not do nothing illegal, we might just get hit are the rico. how is it in your view that it's a statute lawyers should know and frankly many people other familiar with this world know seems to have caught them by surprise if they exposed themselves? >> so, i don't think it was a surprise to many of us that it was initially predicated on the rico statute in georgia. i think the level of offenses, over 40, i think the number of coindictees -- 18 in addition to the president -- that was a surprise. choice of who was indicted and who were not, you clearly expected rudy giuliani, for instance. some of the other defendants are surprises. but clearly it was part of being able to show the pattern of the criminal enterprise. there's no surprise that there's a lot of attention to coffey county, where actions intentionally occurred to breach data on the voting machines. once again,you know, no surprise. >> final question given, again, your knowledge as the former attorney general of georgia. efforts by defendant trump or meadows to remove the case into federal court -- how do you view that? and do you think they would be likely to prevail? >> so, they tried this in the alvin bragg case, but of course it was much different facts and the former president lost that motion. i expect that in addition to mark meadows, the president and maybe one or two other defendants will similarly move to remove the case to federal court. the problem with that is the statute is based on not interfering with the acts of the federal government. the argument by the prosecutor in this case will be that the acts of the federal -- excuse me, the acts of the former president, his chief of staff, folks at doj were not in furtherance of the federal government but frankly in countervenntion -- state law and it would be improper to move the case to federal court. >> you put it so clearly i think people will understand it. makes me wonder how much of a lawyer are you? because a lot of our lawyer friends make it overly complicated but i think you make an important point. it's like in the military, you could have plenty of statutes that give deference to military activity. if you could show evidence someone was a deserter of had really abused whatever position or place they were in because of that, then they're not entitled to the same deference. we'll be following those motions as well. former attorney general for the state of georgia, sam olins, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, sir. >> absolutely. we have a lot more coming up, incluing these georgia plots. we'll be right back. orgia plots. we'll be right back. ow i feel.♪ ♪breeze driftin' on by...♪ ♪...you know how i feel.♪ you don't have to take... 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(vo) it's your vision, it's your verizon. d.a. willis alleges crimes in six different efforts of strands of the coup plot out of georgia. i want to show you this because it's new once we got the indictment news. you have three of the plots that overlap with trump's charges in the doj case. you see them there -- the electors plot, pence overturning the votes, and that thwarted effort to hijack doj. two of the plots are new and specific to georgia. harassment and that data breach. trump himselfs has been charged with all the crimes but his allies are charged in connections with those strands of the plots. all of it part of what d.a. willis says was a racket to steal the election. members of theenter price came from out of state to intimidate the election worker and get her to falsely confess to election crimes. it describes the lawyers unlawfully conspireing to tamp we are ballot markers and tampering with machines in georgia. trump charged with pressuring georgia officials to overturn votes, a strand we discussed tonight in a different context. it's the longest runningarrow. we've shown you the facts before because they track facts. when you've seen the indicted stamp, it the facts in georgia. the arrow runs to the right far longer than the other ones past january 6th. if you total it it's eight months past the insurrection, because late in 2021, trump was pushing in writing to try to get georgia officials to commit fraud or reverse the outcome in that state. it was a written command to deis sert desertfy the election and announce trump as the winner. some people look at what trump does as bizarre, bananas. when president biden is president biden and you say, well, gosh, seems silly, desperate. eight months later you're writing out efforts to still commit a crime u however farfetched you bet you can see it at trial. and that's what the d.a. is doing, treating this like any other racketeering case. donald trump put it in writing months later his efforts to still try to get president biden ejected from office by some magical fraud. well, now it's criminal evidence. i want to bring in john flannery who knows all about rico and these federal cases back for this piece of it. we'll talk about it after the break. it after the break. i'm also a library board trustee, a mother of two, and a grandmother of two. basically, i thought that my memory wasn't as good as it had been. i needed all the help i could get. i saw the commercials for prevagen. i started taking it. and it helped! i noticed my memory was better. there was definite improvement. i've been taking prevagen for a little over five years. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. with the freestyle libre 2 system, know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence. freestyle libre 2. try it for free at freestylelibre.us ♪ ♪ wake up, gotta go! try it for free at c'mon, c'mon. -gracie, c'mon. let's go! guys, c'mon! mom, c'mon! mia! 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[voice vibrating] my husband and i have never been more active. with the citi custom cash℠ card. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care but, shingrix protects. shingrix is now zero dollars for almost everyone. ask your doctor about shingrix today. we're back with john flannery, former federal prosecutor. i'm curious what you think of the significant of d.a. willis using evidence on trump all the way out to 2021. >> i think part of it is to show, and and also it shows how -- the question is whether at a joint trial how you use that, but i think that's the objective. >> hmm. really interesting. and as you say, it can fit into the larger trial strategy. we led tonight with the exclusive about roger stone before the election results were even in, pushing elector fraud. something you mentioned that many remember but some may not, we goes back to the richard nixon era. has a richard nixon tattoo on his back, which he's true to do. doesn't make him less guilty, but it does speak to his lore. so for viewers who may have seen the open i'm going to show more later of the highlight of that newly obtained video, but first, something we put together shows a little more back story about mr. stone, including some of my back in the day interviews with him. take a look. >> will you remain with the donald now throughout the campaign? >> i'll do whatever the donald asks me to do. >> i had no knowledge -- pardon me, i had no contacts with people who might have been a go between without my knowledge. >> so that's your denial for the record. >> it is better to be infamous than never be famous at all. >> that does not say i knew in advance julian assange was going to hack his email account. that's false. >> on the assange part when you how you knew it. >> yes. >> just a little refresher on roger stone. now, here is the exclusive we obtained. we'll play 15 seconds of it to keep our wear. before the results were in, he is talking about the president's, quote, victory, trump's victory was a result. the results weren't in yet. biden was ahead. take a look. >> any legislative body may decide to send electors to the electoral college who accurately reflect the president's legitimate victory in their state. >> how do you see, john, that video working as part of our understanding of these plots, many of which are now indicted and something we didn't get to earlier, which is his well known political persona, the negative is he's around a lot of problems. i can say that fairly. the defense argument from criminal defense counsel, if you got there, would be in fairness, this is a person who should be treated like an entertainer or a radio host. he makes content. he is constantly putting stuff out. that's why there's so much bluster rather than conduct. break it down for us. >> yes. he's exercising his free speech right to overthrow our government. oops. speech plus conduct is not acceptable. and it was interesting that he's so used to saying certain things on camera, he says, i don't have anything -- oh, i'm going to talk about something else. in other words, he was ready to make a denial of knowing anything and then he realized it didn't fit and he had another way to say it. so, but you have to say, is what he's saying two days after the election believable as an independent action when it conforms so perfectly in several ways, including the personnel doing what he suggested, his contact with the group that has an interest in the demonstration ultimately on january the 6th, and the coup memos that then follow to give a -- i guess a coloring of legitimacy to what they're doing, even as the content is false, namely that they claim there have been fraudulent acts during the elections and they have none. and they invoke a legal theory that is baseless. and so, you can't push him aside. and the harder you push him, the more you are involved with him. and stone -- stone himself -- the thing that's most amazing about these guys is how arrogant they are. they say these things that bite them in the hind quarters, including this -- he's talking to a journalist who is going to publish what he's saying. and he's saying that. and he did something earlier in the summer basically predicting that they might have to do something like this, that is we'll just say we won the election anyhow. it was stolen. so, trying to say separate yourself from roger stone, futile. >> yeah. it's striking. and the journalist documentary maker telling us that in the end of it there was kind of that meltdown and the concern that, like others we have heard about, there was a belief, oh, i need a pardon. well, mr. eastman sought a pardon. mr. stone sought what would have been his second use of the pardon power. that tells you about their state of mind and how much evidence there was of it. john, you have been our go-to, designated hitter tonight. thank you so much. it's always good to see you, sir. >> good to be with you. >> absolutely. a lot of news tonight on "the beat." we'll be right back. 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"the reidout" with joy reid starts now. ♪♪ tonight on "the reidout" -- >> this is ridiculous application, racketeering statute. probably no one that knows it better than i do. probably some that know it as well. i was the first one to use it in white collar cases. >> the irony. rudy julianmy who put dozens of mobsters behind bars using rico back in the day is now indicted

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