Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704

Indictment called donald trump S Criminal Enterprise are to varying degrees, donald trump has been given special treatment in each one of his previous arrests and arraignments. So far there has been no suggestion from the Fulton County sheriff, fani willis, that donald trump will receive special treatment this time in the booking and arraignment procedure. This is the one. This is the case that tells a story more clearly than any other Criminal Case against donald trump. The story of exactly who Donald Trumps and was when he was, according to this indictment, committing crimes in the oval office. This is the one that historians will use to tell the story of Donald Trumps conspiracy to overturn the 2020 president ial election. This is the one that screenwriters and perhaps playwrights will use to tell some that story. If you read only one indictment of donald trump, it really should be this indictments . Indictments. It tells a story the way well written history book would tell story, in clear, simple, chronological order, we beginning with Donald Trumps knee lying speech at two a. M. On Election Night, quote, falsely declaring victory in the 2020 president ial election. Those of us watching that speech that time knew that donald trump was lying. Neither candidate could honestly claim to have won the president ial election on Election Night, given the number of still uncounted votes in the key states. When we watch that speech, it appeared to be one of Donald Trumps standard issue lies, which are perfectly legal. But in this indictment, on page 20, we discover that a week before Election Night Donald John Trump discussed a draft speech with Unindicted Coconspirator individual one that falsely declared victory and falsely claimed voter fraud. The speech was an overt act in furtherance of a conspiracy. That speech at two a. M. Was, according to this indictment the public launching of Donald Trumps Criminal Enterprise. News the second action in the furtherance of a conspiracy involved Rudolph Giuliani and Unindicted Coconspirator individual 2, the third action involved Unindicted Coconspirator individual 3, the fourth action involved Unindicted Coconspirator individual 4. There are a total of 30 Unindicted Coconspirators, some of whom were in the oval office with donald trump. That means that the grand jury has evidence from 30 coconspirators who are cooperating with this prosecution of Donald Trumps Criminal Enterprise. Many of the fake electors in georgia are Unindicted Coconspirators who were cooperating with prosecutors, and the rest of the Unindicted Coconspirators are being indicted for forgery in the first degree, conspiracy to commit conspiracy in the first degree, and more. What mike pence called a gaggle of Crack Pot Lawyers have all been indicted in this case. Rudolph giuliani, john eastman, kenneth chesebro, jeffrey clark, jenna ellis, they are each facing multiple charges in the furtherance of the conspiracy. The conspiracy called Donald Trumps Criminal Enterprise. Rudolph giuliani is 79 years old. He is contemplating the possibility, tonight, of spending the final years of his life in prison in georgia, outside of the reach of a president ial pardon from the next republican president in United States. Litman, and his legal column in the Los Angeles Times calls this indictment the most far reaching and portentous response to trumps assault on democracy. Special Prosecutor Jack Smith is indicted on trump individually for much of the same conduct, described in the georgia indictment as a Criminal Enterprise. Donald trumps last white house Chief Of Staff, mark meadows, does not appear in jack smiths indictment. Mark meadows is the fourth listed defendant and the george indictment. Mark meadows is the first defended in the case to legally respond to the indictment by today Filing A Request in Federal Court to move the georgia case out of the Fulton County courthouse to the jurisdiction of a federal judge. The federal judge who will consider that request is steve c. Jones, appointed to the Federal Court by president obama. A georgia judge, who was randomly assign the case in Fulton County, is the newest judge in Fulton County, judge scott mcafee, appointed by republican Governor Brian Kemp to fill a vacancy and is now running for reelection to that judge ship in 2024 on the same schedule as the president ial election. Judge mcafee is a republican who was a member of the Federalist Society in law school. Judge mcafee served as a assistant District Attorney under the supervision of fani willis, who was then one of the Senior Assistant District Attorneys in Fulton County. We now have a four way race to a trial date in the for criminal prosecutions of donald trump. Y alvin bragg, the first to indict donald trump, has a currently scheduled trial date of march 25th. District attorney bragg has said publicly he would not use that date to stand in the way of one of the other prosecutions of donald trump, which he recognized as possibly more urgent cases. Today in florida, don trumps newest codefendant in the espionage an Obstruction Of Justice case was finally arraigned. The two defendants facing criminal charges with donald trump in florida probably believe that there is virtually no chance of them being sentenced to prison even if found guilty in that case, because the judge in the case was appointed by donald trump. And has in the past issued extraordinarily favorable rulings for don trump. And because there are no mandatory minimum sentences required in that case. It is fully within that federal judges discretion to give no prison time to any of those defendants, even if found guilty. The prospect of prison time is the strongest pressure in convincing coconspirators to cooperate with prosecutors. That pressure is virtually nonexistent, possibly in the florida case but that pressure is much much stronger in the georgia case tonight. With 18 codefendants of donald trump, each wondering how much prison time they could be facing in that case. None of Donald Trumps 18 accused coconspirators in georgia can just sit back and bet on donald trump winning the next president ial election and making that case go away because the president of the United States has absolutely no power to intervene in any way in the Georgia Criminal Prosecution of Donald Trumps Criminal Enterprise. Leading off our discussion tonight is glenn hes fleming, Andrew Weissmann, former fbi general counsel, a professor in practice it nyu law school, and an msnbc legal and analyst, also harry littman, former u. S. Attorney and former Deputy Assistant general, Senior Legal Affairs general for the Los Angeles Times. And gwen, let me begin with you on a point that we were working on last night and that is the question of mandatory minimums. In the georgia law, the rico law, there appears to be a mandatory minimum sentence of five years but there are indications that there is still discretion left to the judge to not necessarily impose prison time and that could be done through probation. What is the real mandatory minimum . Let me put it this way, is there a mandatory minimum of confinement of some kind in the georgia law that applies in this case . Last night you heard d. A. Willis say yes. There was. And the way i read that statement is, as a prosecutor, and again, this is very early in the stages. All defendants are it is until proven guilty. But if and when we get to the conviction of any one of the 19 for a rico charge my sense is that the dea herself will seek the mandatory minimum of five years in jail, not on probation. Now the way the statute is worded, it simply says no less than five and up to 20 years imprisonment. There are other statutes that indicate that can be, that term can be probated, and when there is no discretion, when imprisonment is mandatory such as in the georgia gang statute, the statute specifically says that. It will go on to say, and sentence cannot be suspended or probated. Because that language is absent from the rico statute i think theres a good argument that the five years could be served on probation but as a prosecutor would make a recommendation about sending thing after a conviction, i think we saw that at least d. A. Willis believes that this is a time sort of case, time to in jail would be appropriate. When, what we know about the judge who might be making this decision at the end of this case . This judge scott mcafee, he is the shockingly young 34 yearold judge in this case, the newest judge in that county and he was a former assistant District Attorney in fani williss office, but do we know much about how he might approach this . I dont know that we know much. He has been on the bench now for about eight months. He did starting january. He is a very lengthy Public Service career, so he has been a prosecutor both at the state and federal level. He has seen how various judges have organized their docket, how they have pushed council on both sides to resolve issues quickly so that you dont end up with bloated dockets or lengthy dockets. But this is one heck of a case to begin your judicial career on, i will admit that. Andrew weissmann, mark meadows is telling Federal Court that everything he did he did in his official capacity as the white house Chief Of Staff, and therefore no state court has jurisdiction over that conduct. What are the prospects of mark meadows pleading in Federal Court on that . I think its important for everyone to realize that what mark meadows did today is likely to be something that maybe all of the 19 defendants are going to do which is to seek to remove the case to Federal Court. What we saw today could repeat over and over again. Why is . That because the judge will change the jury poor pool would change, and the trial would not be televised, absent the Chief Justice of United States making an exception and theres no evidence so far to suggest that would happen. The jury pool would be much broader than Fulton County. What would not change is that the District Attorneys office stays with the case and the state law still applies. Its just moving the case to a different venue. Donald trump tried this in a manhattan case, a manhattan Criminal Case, and it was rejected. But here the charge is a very different. It could be outright rejected because someone could say was committing a crime in engaging in a coup, and its not part of your official capacity, for that it is sent back to state court. There is certainly allegations here with respect to mark meadows that say that he did something really on behalf of the campaign. So that is not really part of his chief staff duties. You could end up with a split decision, with certain things stay state and certain things go federal. That could be with respect to each of the defendants who make this motion. You could have a split decision. Its also a case that could go to a hearing where theres evidence taken, and the statute requires that unless its facially clear that it should be sent back to the state court. So this is going to be a very complicated issue. Theres going to be lots of litigation on it. I would say this is not a frivolous motion. I dont think i would rule in favor of it, but it is one that is going to be quite complicated for the federal judge. Lets just take a look at what the meadows filing says, for example, about one thing that he did. Its worth keeping in mind that in the history of the american presidency no white house Chief Of Staff, or no white house staffer at any level, has ever done what mark meadows counsel describes him doing here. Mr. Meadows went to a site in Fulton County where the Chief Investigator was conducting an audit of the results of the 2020 president ial election because, and only because, he was serving as Chief Of Staff. He wanted to report back to the president on how the audit was proceeding and told him the following day that the georgia officials were conducting their work in an exemplary fashion. Harry littman, thats one version of it. The Indictment Version of it is that he tried to intrude on a process of Vote Counting that does not allow anyone to enter that space and he had to be barred from entering, prevented from entering into the space where the audit was being conducted. The indictment says. And so when you are claiming youre just doing your job as the white house Chief Of Staff, and youre doing something in georgia, in a state where theyre auditing a vote, that no one in the history of president ial staff has ever done, how does that claim stand up in Federal Court, that you were just doing your job . Less well than a lot of other things that he is going to try to say. It goes to the point of some possibility of possibly dividing the charges against him. But look, contrast this with trump and claims that have already been rejected, where he has tried to argue the same thing, in effect you can remove, if you are within, if youre acting under the cover of your office, and judges have said i dont think so. Trying to foment a coup is not part of the office. It is a harder case with meadows. The points you raised, lawrence, seem Beyond The Pale anyway however you strike it, but a lot has to do with how you characterize his conduct and his lawyer terwilliger has somewhat adroitly tried to frame this as doing this Chief Of Staffy stuff, conducting calls here. And the circuit here has pretty liberal removal, that is to say it favors removal. So i agree with andrew, its not a straightforward motion. You could see his prevailing here. One interesting point to raise, you have 30 days to do a removal and you would think trump in his Delay Strategy would want to wait until the end, and meadows here jumps begun innocence and speeds up the clock. There are other people as well, but trump, if you were really in control, would have won, and none of this to occur for 29 days and instead we are already off to the races with the meadows motion. A good case. Do each one of these defendants get their own day in Federal Court if they want it, making the claim that their case should be removed to Federal Court . It would only apply to those who were federal officers at the time that these acts happened. And again, lets remember, im a former Chief Of Staff and you have to think about what is the authority of the principle that you are serving. Again, when we talk about Election Fraud or elections period, its very clear that all of that administration belongs to the state. It does not belong to the office of the presidency. And so when you start from that premise, then its very hard to be able to understand how a Chief Of Staff to the president would be able to do things that are not with in the president s own purview to do. Each federal officer would have the opportunity to file his or her own motion. Were Gonna Squeeze in a quick break here. Please all stay with us. When we come back i want to do a bit of a time clock calendar calculation about how much delay could be built into the georgia case on motions like removing the case to the Federal Court and other expected pretrial motions. We will be right back after this break. The thought of getting screened for colon cancer made me queasy. But now ive found a way thats right for me. Feels more easy. My doc and i agreed. I pick the time. Todays a good day. I screened with cologuard and did it my way cologuard is a oneofa kind way to screen for colon cancer thats effective and noninvasive. Its for people 45 plus at average risk, not high risk. False positive and negative results may occur. Ask your provider for cologuard. I did it my way rsv is in for a surprise. Meet arexvy. the first fdaapproved rsv vaccine. Arexvy is used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. 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Mister secretary, obviously there is, there are allegations where we believe that not every vote or fair vote and legal vote was counted, and thats at odds with the representation from the Secretary Of States office. What im hopeful for is, is there some way that we can find some kind of agreement to look at this a little bit more fully . You know, the president mentioned Fulton County. But in some of these areas where there seems to be a difference of where the facts seem to lead, and so, mister secretary, i was hopeful that, you know, in the spirit of cooperation and compromise, is there something that we can at least have a discussion to look at some of these allegations to find a path forward thats less litigious . Well, i listened to what president has just said. President trump, weve had several lawsuits, and weve had to respond in court to the lawsuits and the contentions. We dont agree that you have one. Andrew weissmann, thats in the middle of that hourlong conversation. The Secretary Of State says, we dont agree that you have won, and he makes statements like that throughout the phone call. And donald trump, everyone knows, famously pushes beyond that and asks for him to just find votes. But mark meadows pushes beyond that as well. Mark meadows is told, as a participant in that phone call repeatedly, that they are wrong about every single contention they make about incorrect counting in georgia, and mark meadows keeps pushing. This is not what has Mark Meadows Indicted in this case. What is your sense of how the evidence lines up with the georgia indictment . Just remember that in addition to the tape that you just played, with the portion with respect to mark meadows, we know that privately mark meadows was joking with one of his offspring about this need to find votes, that this was all just hogwash. Even his own council in the Removal Papers that you were just referencing in our first discussion, that his own lawyer is citing what mark meadows is saying that he came back from georgia saying the count was exemplary. The third point i would make is that at the time of this call, the litigation was over the, the vote had been counted, and it was done. This was not something that was ongoing. This is not a month before, where there were some ongoing process. This was really them seeking an extra judicial remedy, which is a fancy way of saying a criminal remedy. The way that you can challenge this is by going to court. Well, they lost in court. Thats it. Thats the remedy in an american system of justice. So this is going to be, obviously, much stronger with respect to the former president , but i can easily see why mark meadows was charged here. Gwen Keyes Fleming, repeatedly throughout the indictment, we saw pages that republicans are focusing on today, where the iphone taken alone is not a criminal act, but the, for example, donald trump lying on Election Night that he won the election. If thats as far as he went there would be no Criminal Enterprise. But it turns out in the flow of the Criminal Enterprise thats the beginning of the flow of the Criminal Enterprise publicly. There were several things like that that are mentioned in the indictment. Tweets that looked at alone dont have criminal import to them, but in this indictment they are described as public Building Blocks of the conspiracy, including, in one case, a private building block, simply obtaining a phone number for someone to make one of those calls that the indictment calls criminal to a state official. How do those elements, when they appear in the indictment in an isolated way, they appear to not be criminal, how do those elements play in front of a rico jury when you are assembling them into the flow of a criminal conspiracy . Youve got three prosecutors, former prosecutors here and one of the things prosecutors always do is we take tiny bits of evidence and use them as Building Blocks to tell the story that we will ultimately bring to the fore during our closing argument. So each block them becomes part of his larger picture. And so each of these 161 different acts that are listed in the indictment are those Building Blocks, and so you can already see where the d. A. Is starting to think ahead towards her closing argument. And the great thing here, with the georgia rico statute, is you dont have to have, well you have to have the predicate act. Those are the crimes listed in the statute. But you can also add these additional facts, these additional Building Blocks that fill in the whole story. And so that is what these other acts, the ones that say they are an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy, that is the d. A. Is doing. She is filling in that picture with more Building Blocks, more evidence that she intends to present at trial. Harry littman, i want to pull back to that broader perspective you took in your la times column today about the importance of this case and the scope of this case. Please expand on that. Sure. We were anticipating this in the couple of days before it came out. But first and foremost we have charges now against trump, plus 18 people. And if you think about an overall sort of National Effort at reconciliation and accountability, you just have to charge and get redress of the socalled gaggle of Crack Pot Lawyers, the six here including jenna ellis, that really did trumps conduct. Thats a big part of it. Second is the way in which the many different folks will potentially cooperate and provide both information and accountability. And third, are just different factors in the georgia scheme, not just rico but preventative detention. Andrew talked about this a couple of days ago. And speedy trial that when what we really have here is a possibility, it may be literally years down the line, as gwen has just said. But you think about a time where we all hope that, in fact, we have come out of the forest and we have seen general accountability, this broad gauge action, this blunder bus compared to jack smiths sort of single arrow at trump will be a huge part of the overall reckoning of the nation as against the arguably most treacherous conduct against the constitution by a president in our history. Gwen, we see in this indictment some of the specifics Of Georgia Law that are uniquely applied here that dont exist as federal options. This charge, for example, of impersonating an official, that the electors are all being charged with. Thats particular to georgia law. The Forgery Aspects of it are the georgia forgery law, and im not sure anybody writing the forgery law ever thought it would apply to fake electors in a president ial election, but here we are. We are seeing all the specifics Of Georgia Law, and some Georgia Election law, working into this indictment to strengthen it in a way that is unique to georgia. Thats absolutely true. And so again what you are seeing is this District Attorney recognizing and really educating the grand jurors about how the facts that she had through the various witnesses, through the Special Grand Jury report, really fit well into some lesser known areas Of Georgia Law, including segments of the election code, like you mentioned. But also impersonating an officer or the fake electors scheme in particular, where the document said we are signing this as the duly elected representatives of who won the election. When that in fact was not true. Gwen Keyes Fleming thank you very much for your guidance these last two nights. Very valuable to us. Andrew weissmann, harry littman, are gonna stay with that with us. When we come back were going to consider the codefendants of donald trump and who among them is in a position to actually make some sort of Cooperation Deal with fani willis at this point. Well be right back. Wake up, gotta go cmon, cmon. Gracie, cmon. Lets go guys, cmon mom, cmon mia [ Engine Revving ] my favorite color is. Because, its like a family thing [ Engine Revving ] made it mom leave running behind, behind. The new turbocharged volkswagen atlas. Does life beautifully. Choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more can be overwhelming. 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Narrator wellness centers, food pantries, and parental education. Jessie theyre already making a difference. David californias Community Schools reimagining public education. Along with Andrew Weissmann and harry litman, tanya miller, former Fulton County assistant District Attorney who served with fani willis. Like Andrew Weissmann and harry litman, she is a former federal prosecutor. Tanya miller, does it make sense to you now what this process has been, beginning on january 3rd, fani williss second day on the job, when the tape, the audio recording, became public, of Donald Trumps phone call to Secretary Of State Brad Raffensperger in georgia, asking for 11,000 votes and telling, we also know, an awful lot of lies to the Secretary Of State about the election that was conducted in his state. Here we are two and a half years later. Does that amount of time make sense to you in this investigation with a Special Grand Jury that was first empaneled to hear all of this evidence and now finally landing on indictments at this point . Absolutely, lawrence. I think you hit the nail right on the head. I mean, there were all these conversations about how long this investigation was taking, how all encompassing it was. Look, the District Attorney could have seen this case in multiple different ways. This could have just been a case about that call to Brad Raffensperger. But what you saw here is sort of par for the course with fani willis. When she sees cases like this that she believes will fit that rico statute, she has talked about how much she likes it. The reason why she likes it, and she has said this over and over again, is because it allows jurors, it allows the community to see the full picture and full scope of criminal conduct. If you have multiple people committing multiple crimes in multiple jurisdictions, rico is really the way to go. And to bring a comprehensive indictment like the one she brought required her to comb through every single piece of evidence, talk to every witness who had relevant information, come through tweets, emails, have battles in court about whos gonna comply with subpoenas. So i think absolutely this is the natural product of an investigation like that. And certainly i think it also assisted in how quickly she was able to present it to the regular grand jury. You dont get to present a case like this that quick unless you have spent a lot of time understanding of the peaks and valleys of the evidence of your case. Andrew weissmann, the big glaring difference where these cases overlap is the different treatment of mark meadows, who doesnt exist in jack smiths case. And here he is as a defendant in fani williss case. What is your theory of how this different treatment emerged in these two Different Cases . I think at the federal level my suspicion is it just did not think that they had enough to charge him, at least at this point. Even to name him as an Unindicted Coconspirator. There are those who think he may have been cooperating either fully or partially. I tend to not think thats the case. Obviously for the reasons we talked about, that here in the state thinks that they have enough in the indictment is quite powerful with respect to numerous allegations, but i want to follow up on something gwen and tanya said. In every Criminal Case the government Admiral Gates truth and talks about the whole picture and the defense disaggregates and they want you to look at each individual please without seeing it in context and they say this piece of proof is not criminal or this doesnt prove beyond a reasonable doubt. I used it in Rebuttal Summation to tell the jury when i go into a home when police go into a home and they find a man with a gun in his hand and its smoking and theres a dead body on the floor and its bleeding invisible it in it, and the defendants as i did it, i did it. And the defense is to you, theres nothing wrong with owning a gun. Theres nothing wrong with making a statement i did it. Disaggregates all of that to say that you dont see the whole picture. Thats what were seeing the republicans do now with what is a really to tanyas point a really comprehensive indictment and i have to say as somebody who is done large cases this is not a long time to put together something this massive with this number of people. This is a hard and a long process, and as tanya said, it requires a lot of litigation, as we all remember, to get people to actually comply with their grand jury duties. Harry litman, the different treatment of Mark Meadows In jack smiths case versus fani williss case is open to speculation. But the point andrew just made seems to indicate that, if jack smith didnt feel he had the evidence to bring Mark Meadows In, then fani willis was and is working with a stronger ammunition legal ammunition in her state statutes, apparently, then jack smith is. And it may get stronger still. Because, as we talked about, the dynamics she has now put into play may really result in peoples cooperation and really giving evidence against meadows. Now, it is the case that meadows testified in a federal grand jury. And we all took that as a sign, given the savvy and confidence of his lawyer, that he was cooperating at least in some fashion. But you are right and andrew is right that he is now the kind of man of mystery because it just seemed implausible that a lawyer of terwillgers skill would have permitted him to cut some kind of deal that didnt leave him that left him exposed in georgia, as he now is. So, that is going to be something that will really be revealed in the coming months. All right, we are going to squeeze in a break here. When we come back we are going to have Rudolph Giulianis first statement in his own defense, which he just did, on video. We will be right back with that after this break. Introducing the new swiffer powermop. An allinone cleaning tool with a 360degree swivel head that goes places a regular mop just cant. Mop smarter with the new swiffer powermop. My most important kitchen tool . My brain. So i choose neuriva plus. Unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. To help keep me sharp. Neuriva think bigger. And there he is. Chaz. 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This is a ridiculous application of the racketeering statute. Theres probably no one that knows it better than i do. Probably some that nowadays well i was the first one to use it in white collar cases. But in major cases, like the bosti case and the milken case, this is not meant for election disputes. This is ridiculous what she is doing. Andrew weissmann, your response to defendant giuliani. Giuliani of all of the defendants of the major names that we know about, i think is in the most legal peril. Not only is he on tape, and there are credible witnesses, and transcripts of his false statements to the georgia legislature. Not only is there his bad faith litigation in pennsylvania, as founded by the the Disciplinary Committee in d. C. Where they found that he did not have a basis to challenge the votes there. But you also have his conduct charged here with respect to ruby freeman and shaye moss. So, theres not only a highend what he was doing to democracy writ large, with the real consequences and in my view racist conduct on his part with respect to those two women and to make it a stronger case, in the civil lawsuit, in d. C. , before the Former Pharma chief judge, beryl howell, Rudy Giuliani has essentially admitted that and it is not challenging the allegations there. So, it will be an effort to use that in this case. So, he is facing incredibly strong charges. And he cannot be federally pardoned four these state charges. And i think, as you mentioned, he is relatively old. And he is going to be without a lot of money. Because he is being sued by dominion. He is being sued by ruby freeman and shaye moss, as well he should be. And he has already been sanctioned by beryl howell in that case. So, he is really facing significant legal peril. Tanya miller, woody Rudy Giuliani, in that same interview, also said this. They are not even crimes this is the first amendment. This is free speech. It is my acting as a lawyer. I have a right to argue for my client. I even have a right to exaggerate for my client. I have a basis for everything that i said. What is your reaction to that . I think that those are the expected defenses to hear. I think we have heard him hint at these defenses all along. Look, i think i agree. I think that Rudy Giulianis conduct is probably the most egregious. Its probably going to be the easiest to prove. And this notion that, somehow, rico is only meant for the mafia, i dont think he has been watching how the rico statute has been used in modern times. I certainly dont think he has paid attention to how its been used in Fulton County. And i dont think he realizes that this particular da is very skilled in using rico for things exactly like this, pioneering types of situations where there are these things that, when you look at them individually, they dont seem that terrible, but when you take them on the whole, they seem egregious. For example, the ap is aps cheating scandal. Many of the folks down here thought that really wasnt the kind of case that rico should be used for. Well, this District Attorney used it. And many of those educators were, unfortunately, for a lot of folks, convicted. So, i think he is in for a rude awakening in Fulton County. Georgia state representative tanya miller, Andrew Weissmann, harry litman, thank you all for joining our discussion tonight. I really appreciate it. We will be right back. Ht back. [sneeze] astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other Allergy Sprays take hours. 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What would that reality look like . Well i guess i wouldve gotten us xfinity. And wed have a better view. Do you need mulch . If criminal defendants what, we have a ton of mulch. Rudolph giuliani continues to be willing to do Television Interviews about his case, he is more than welcome to join us here any night, any time that he can possibly make it. Rudolph giuliani is welcome here to mount his defense at this table. That is tonights last word. The 11th hour with Stephanie Ruhle starts now. Tonight, indictment number four for donald trump. The sweeping charges for the former president and his allies, who now have ten days to turn themselves in, and the push for mark meadows to move this to Federal Court. And Rudy Giuliani led the way on racketeering cases in the 80s. Now, he is facing his own rico charge. Neal katyal here is here on what it means for donald trump s former lawyer. Then the legal consequences for the 2020 election seemingly not moving the needle for 2024. How this will all play out on the Campaign Trail as The 11th Hour gets underway on this tuesday night good evening once again, i am Stephanie Ruhle. Former president Donald J Trump now has ten days to