shortly in the georgia election interference case. never before has a former american president faced a criminal indictment. yet, now trump faces the possibility of defending himself in four separate cases. as he campaigns to reclaim the white house in 2024 trump supporters seem unfazed they showed up in fourth this weekend at the iowa state fair to cheer on their guy and to heckle the most popular opponent florida governor ron desantis. the fate of the nation will be decided by how the rest of america responds to this truly unprecedented state of affairs as vice president kamala harris put in an exclusive interview on this program, just last night, democracy is at stake now. joining me now to talk about it all it is congressman colin outspread of texas congressman allred is also running for the u.s. senate in the lone star state hoping to replace republican senator ted cruz. congressman, thank you for joining us. >> thank you brad, meet rev. let's start with possibly the luminous indictment of former president trump in georgia the state's former lieutenant governor says he's received a 48-hour notice to appear before the fulton county grand jury and signed the eight vandals could be proves that pressuring to present her case early this week. what is the significance of this case in georgia in your judgment? >> well, georgia really became the epicenter of the former presidents efforts to overturn the last election we all heard the audio of him asking for them to find 11,000 votes that he needed to overturn the election he was very honest within that conversation about what he was trying to do. he was very straightforward there has to be in our system accountability for things like that. before i came to congress i was a voting rights lawyer and one of the claims that we had often heard about trying to restrict the right to vote was that it was being done to protect voter fraud. we have an audiotape that of the former president engaging in that exactly. saying i need to try and find votes that don't exist, and there has to be accountability, and i think that's we're going to see with this case. >>, and aside from the accountability which is absolutely the priority of the criminal justice system, particularly for someone that sworn to vote, it disenfranchises people as vice president harris told me, democracy is at state because when you can steal elections, voting does not matter that's the way we have protected our interest, there are so many cases against trump it can be hard for americans to keep them all straight. what the georgia case really drives home for me is that these were black voters for joe biden that trump was seeking to throw out or a place to keep them in office in 2020. what is your thoughts on this particular angle? >> i think about the georgians who stood in line and waited and voted during a pandemic knowing that there is a risk associated with that. who would have a faith in their system that their vote would be fairly counted. the fact that georgia has passed some of the most restrictive voting laws in the country, unfortunately second to my home state of texas. these folks are trying to overcome all of that because they believe in the democracy, but they are really saying, certain voters don't count. certain votes don't count, that's what i often hear when i hear them talking about the last election, whatever happened around it. what they are really saying, we might have, last we lost because certain people voted. there are still count the same. and that's unacceptable in our democracy. it's unacceptable in our country. so, that's why we have to stand up to. it ted cruz is also a big part of this effort to overturn the last election. that's one of the reasons why i'm running to replace him in the united states senate. i need everybody is watching -- i hope you all go to colin allred.com. we can do. it we can hold these folks accountable. now, i'm glad you brought of the subject of voting rights. because i spoke exclusively with vice president kamala harris in the lead up to the 69th anniversary -- that i'll be joining, and leading as the head of the -- network, and joining martin to king the third and his -- -- of that awarded king. and i want to i bring some of what the vice president said had to say. take a listen. >> are you concerned about -- especially among blacks in the election year, these -- are you concerned about? that >> i'm worried about it, because i also know that there has been a lot of effort, and laws that have been passed, to try to make it more difficult for people to vote. i mean can you imagine rev, in the united states of america, we went through all of these fights, the march on washington, john lewis, all of that, and these so-called leaders who are so bold as to unapologetically propose and passed laws to make it more difficult for the american people to vote. the gall. >> >> so, i do worry that we have to do everything we can, to remind people of why it's important. and also, fight against those people who are trying to make it difficult. >> and when she's talking about people that make it difficult, it is trump. but it's also the republican party, that has backed him, and as you mentioned, senator coons and others in the u.s. senate. they have all had layer and giantess on the threat to voting rights, and they were all supported donald trump in his being on tape, as you pointed out, saying all i need is 11,000 something odd votes. i mean, this is almost unthinkable, if it wasn't so real and in our face, congressman. your thoughts? >> and when i think about, this is the home state of course, that john lewis represented. and you know, i served with mr. lewis in the congress, also in the congressional black caucus. he is one of the reasons why became a voting rights lawyer in the first place. the idea that, in our democracy, every person's voice voice counts. and that we have shed blood, to get to this point, two or we can have a pluralistic democracy, in which everyone can be involved. and you win some, reverent, and you lose some. but you don't question the results, you don't try to overturn the election. certainly in texas, there been elections we didn't agree with. you never see is trying to say well, it shouldn't count, because we don't like how the results came out. and that's why we have to move from a model, reds, of the supreme court being the -- of our rights. to doing this right legislatively. and that's why i've been leading the charge in congress, to have to protect the right to vote and, protect against election subversion, and do everything we can to strengthen our democracy. because i want to pass on a healthy democracy to my boys. and i know you has been a career working on this as well. and, it's something that we not take our eye off the ball here. because, january 6th and the last election, is the first time in our history we have not had a peaceful transfer of power. what we've seen since then is, stephen moore, a wave of voter suppression laws, trying to make sure that americans cannot make their voice heard in their election. >> now a congressman, this week, the white house will mark the one year anniversary of the signing of the inflation reduction act into law. since the bill's passage, not only has inflation moderated, but perhaps more importantly, the legislation has led to the investment of billions of dollars in clean and renewable energy for our kids, craig tens of thousands of good jobs in the process. despite the successes, many voters say they haven't personally felt the impact of bidenomics. now, you sit on the infrastructure committee. how can democrats better deliver the message, about the economic successes, heading into 2024? >> that's right. well, we have to talk about what we did in the last congress. because i think the legislation that was passed was historic. and the inflation reduction act is one the most important pieces of legislation i think in modern history, because it deals with climate change. and the summer that we've been having, with the wildfires in maui, and the record heat in phoenix, or the forest fires in canada. all over the world, we are seeing that we have to act on climate. and the inflation reduction act is the biggest crime bill we passed in modern history. it's been a 30% reduction in our emissions by 2030. it's creating thousands of jobs, in my district alone. we have a new solar company coming, and bringing in $250 million, a facility that have worked that much, and it can be building in dallas, particular 1500 jobs, based on the subsidies in the inflation reduction act. and, so we have to talk about. this we had to talk about the manufacturing base, that we are bringing back to the night. states we have to talk about the investment, for example in texas, that we're getting 35 billion dollars over the next five years, from the infrastructure bill. and that is bringing jobs and money back into our, stay to our communities. and it would not have happened, if it were up to folks like ted cruz, who voted against it. folks who have, tried and said that we're not going to make these investments in our own economy. ted cruz also voted against a high tech manufacturing legislation, bring someone in jobs to texas. we could talk about, that we're trying to -- and create good union jobs in this country, and have done it through legislation in the last congress, that we now have to implement and make sure folks know. about >> all right, thank you for being with us representative -- . let's now bring in my political panel. michael hardaway, democratic strategist and founder of hardaway. brian, wiggins chief of staff for the lincoln project. let me began, ryan, with you. with trump and the potential for criminal indictment on the horizon, trials in these cases, could compliment trump's already packed campaign schedule in 2024. his federal election interference trial is set to begin in january. but, the new york times is reporting trump also benefits from an indictment effect, in polling, fund raising, and with conservative media outlets, the former president has turned criminal charges into political assets. how do you see this playing out politically? >> i think we are seeing the same thing we have seen from trump since the very beginning. and that is a grift. trump is not somebody looking for ways to make money, he has made money off of his mugshot that has not even dropped yet in fulton county. i think you are going to see, and continue to pay money from his donors, and use it in ways that i don't think they intend for him to use it. and what's so sad is you know, these people, they don't see what really is happening. i mean, they believe what he is telling them, and it is just lies. i mean, this is the danger of continuing to allow for this to happen, without any consequence. so let's hope that these cases come to fruition, come quickly. and, that we get some justice. because this cannot happen. i mean, this is a terrible precedent to set for this country. >> -- the michael, the white house estate relatively quiet about trump's various indictments. and of course, the justice department has now opened the special counsel investigation into president biden's son, hunter biden. how should democrats talk about the trump indictments, as a campaign issue, especially if he becomes the republican nominee? >> in my view, donald trump -- following desantis and the, others are so far behind, they will have no chance to catch up with donald trump. and so, republican voters, on the cusp of nominating an individual, who has been indicted three times. and, he is about to be indicted for the fourth. time and so, that will be very interesting. democrats have to drive home this message, surrounding trump's cavalcade of corruption, and all of these other problematic issues surrounding them. because, if he gets elected again, it will be problematic, when he realizes that he got away with everything he did the first time around, and the american people i think, we'll see a crate of horrors that we've never seen before. and so i think it's important, the democrats simply drive home the message towards independents on both sides of the aisle, that this man cannot get elected. again >> ryan, let's talk about iowa. now, nearly all of the gop presidential hopefuls were when voters the iowa state fair this weekend. the two top polling candidates in the state, donald trump and ron desantis, held dueling events. trump swooped in, tracking thousands of people as he brought along a group of supporter lawmakers, from desantis's home state of florida. meanwhile, desantis was trying to make inroads with voters, with face to face politicking, as he looks to reset his campaign. well, what was your take away, from the candidates who are at the iowa state fair, when were they winners or losers, and did anyone do extremely well, or poorly so far? >> they are all losers. exactly what michael said is true, the primary is over. i mean, it is over. they are out there, and they're trying to go name idea, and they are trying to act all tough, but they are all going to fall in line behind trump, the way they always have. and he is up 30 points from ron desantis. i mean, the fact that ron desantis is currently in iowa, and not governing in florida, when we are having a housing crisis and insurance crisis, it's hurricane season, the water temperatures in key west around 100 degrees. the fact that he is in iowa, schmoozing and not governing, tells you what kind of president he would be if he ever got the opportunity, but he never will, because it's going to be donald trump again. he holds a huge, huge, huge number of -- in his own campaign. he is who they want. ron desantis is trying to to run to the right of, trump you can't run to the right of trump. so, what you are going to see is, you're going to see all of these guys going to spend all of their money, and you are going to see most of the money most of them not make it to south carolina, because donald trump is going to be the nominee of the republican calm party again this year. people need to get ready for, they need to be ready for biden versus trump. it is two choices, there is no third choice. any third choice gives vote to donald trump. you have two choices, you can have joe biden, and you have trump. >> michael, lest we last week -- decisively at rejected a ballot measure, that would have made it more difficult to protect abortion rights in the state. the washington post reports, that as the republican party runs into roadblocks trying to restrict abortion rights in some states, the gop base is warming up to the idea of a federal abortion ban. based on what we saw in the post-dobbs midterm elections, the idea of a national ban would seem to be very unpopular with american voters. how should democrats be fighting back, michael? >> it's an interesting question. i think that there are two important ways to look at this. this is clearly another case of government overreach, which i would presume many on the right would have an issue with, as it relates to government infringing on the rights of an individual to decide what to do with their body. to answer your question, the question of abortion rights did help democrats win in the midterms, and bring it up again on the republican side will be incredibly, incredibly stupid. and so, democrats should drive home the idea that women's rights are important, and we should not allow government figures in suits, in ohio or washington, or anywhere else, to tell him what to do with their bodies. and so, democrats, if they're smart, will write that into victory in the presidential election. >> michael hardaway and ryan wiggins, thank you both for joining us. just ahead, the takeaway message for my interview with vice president kamala harris this week, as we prepare to mark 60 years since the march on washington. but first, i do want to continue to hold maui in my heart, and sincere prayers, as the island now becomes home to the most -- wildfire in modern american history. early this, morning officials in maui county said, at least 93 people had been killed, the governor of hawaii says, this is likely the largest natural disaster in the state's history. three law firms have filed class action lawsuits against hawaii electric, claiming the damage could have been avoided, if the utility company had, quote, the energized, and of quote, and finalized ahead of -- we will be right back. l be right back. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. my name is tonya, i am 42. as mother of nine kids, i think i waited this long to get botox® cosmetic because i take like no time for myself. my kids are sports kids. we're always running from one activity to another. i'm still tonya and i got botox® 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day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. in less than two weeks, -- joining forces as president of the national action network, with martin luther king the third. and -- institute, to mark the 60th anniversary of the march on washington. our organizations will be anti-defamation league jonathon greene -- and other major civil rights group, we'll build a broad core coalition, as we all convene at the lincoln memorial, or martin luther king jr. day gave his historic, i have a dream speech, in 1963. this past week, i was able to speak with vice president harris, about the significance of how far we've come, where we are today, and what could happen next. take a listen. >> i think that, when we look at the 60th anniversary of the march on washington, it must be to commemorate and historic day, in an historic movement. but, it has to also compel us to understand, the movement is not over. and, we must be, we must recommit ourselves to what that was about, which again, was a fight for freedom, for equality, for justice for all people. >> i agree with the vice president. the movement is not over. a lot has changed over the past six decades, but we are starting to see some of the same rights, that were once fought and died for, slowly being unraveled. vice president harris symbolizes the progress made, from 1963. she's the first woman elected vice president, and the first woman of color to be elected. she represents the dream, and part of why they marched. but at the same time, as she said, we are still faced with challenges that have deferred that dreams. hate crimes are on the rise for blacks, jews, latinos, and gay is. we are seeing people try to and black history. we're seeing an erosion of people having access to voting. and for her to say, as a direct product of civil rights acts in the 60s, that we must remain on guard, marching, and voting, in the fight for freedom, equality, and justice for all people. it speaks volumes for her to say it, sitting in the white house, as a product of that move. and to say there is work left to be done. i've been in the fight a long time, it's not lost in me that i have been able to witness significant gains, in my lifetime, from shirley -- to kamala harris. from jesse jackson, to barack obama. but i say to that, never be satisfied, and never stop and let them undo what has been done. we must all rise up, and do our part to help america live up to its highest ideals. we cannot be discouraged, in the fight, because better days are ahead, dr. king once said, while we must accept finite disappointments, we should never lose infinite hope. that's why we are coming together, on august 26th, in washington, at lincoln memorial. not for a commemoration of the march of washington 60 years ago, but for a continuation of the fight he had a head. and a call to action, is there is more work left to be done. we will be right back. ht back. 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introducing the new swiffer powermop. an all-in-one cleaning tool with a 360-degree swivel head that goes places a regular mop just can't. mop smarter with the new swiffer powermop. welcome back to -- . this week, former president trump faces another criminal indictment. tomorrow's fulton county district attorney fani willis, is expected to present, to the grand jury, her case against trump, and his political allies, for allegedly interfering in georgia's 2020 presidential election. indictments could come, as early as tuesday. if approved, the charges would mark the fourth time trump has been indicted. joining us now, msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. danny, you know this area better than anyone. break down the potential charges for us, the potential charges, and what we can expect this week. why has it taken fani willis -- >> well, that question, why is it taking so long? fani willis is taking a very deliberate approach. she first sent it to, really what has ended up being an advisory grand jerry, a special purpose grand jury, that had no power to indict, but nearly had the power to make a recommendation back to the d.a.. a recommendation that the dea didn't need in the first place. she could've just proceeded to indicting grand cherry. so, no one can actually use a fani willis of not being not carefully. she's gone to a first grand jury, almost to get some guidance for them. and now, she is going to a grand jury with the power to indict. it seems that, for the record, fani willis wants the world to know, that ultimately, these were citizens of not one, but two grand juries that concluded that donald trump, or others, may be worthy of indictment, and not an individual choice by. her >> so, there will be two grand juries that have come to the same conclusion, if this grand jury does indict. and, when you look at the federal indictment on these areas, it would be hard for a layman like me to understand, how they could not indict, when the federal government, part of their indictment includes what happened in georgia. they'd almost be repudiating the federal indictment, if they didn't indict >> reverent, your so right. i think it's about page 11 on the most recent indictment all of the sea. a big heading, right, they are in cursive, georgia. and it lays out all of the bad behavior that led to the indictment, or that makes a part of this federal indictment. and i have to wonder, from a political standpoint, where does fani willis go from here? that is a proverbial shot across the bow. i mean, she almost has to go forward, and indict. now, you may have asked about different charges. people talked a lot about racketeering, and racketeering is basically an enterprise, plus a pattern of racketeering activity. really, it's, you could say at the campaign, or even the presidency is the enterprise. and then, all you need is two or more of the predicate crimes. and they are listed in georgia statutes. and so, as long as they can make up some of these predicate crimes, whether it be solicitation to make a false statement, there are think about 20 in the statute. and, there are some more amorphous definitions. so, this, georgia has statutes that are very favorable to someone who is seeking to bring a racketeering charge. it defines it broadly, more broadly then the federal law is defined. >> now, what is the defense strategy for trump's legal team, in your opinion? >> well, let's take a look at the phone call that trump made to brad raffensperger. a lot of folks have focused on the, find me 11,000 votes. almost immediately before and after that, he said something to the effect of, we won this election. now, that may go to his intent. you know, if he believes he won, then that might be part of his defense. we are already seeing hints of this, in his public statements, the idea that it was his opinion that he won, and that, therefore justifies it. i you know i have, often said that the 11,000 votes, is not the most -- think of that phone call. maybe a sentence or two later, he suggests that raffensperger and his attorney are committing federal crimes. now if you and i made that suggestion, it wouldn't mean month. but if you're the head of the executive, branch into the doj -- >> if you're the head of the federal government, accusing him of federal crimes. >> it's a little bit intimidating, in a way that if you and i had made, it wouldn't mean nearly the same thing. >> yet, if you've got the head of the federal government saying that you committed federal crimes, and he just told you to go find me 11,000 votes, that's a little different than just somebody calling up, with -- >> can you do me a favor? >> right, right. or a little complaint. but, how serious is this georgia case, in comparison to the other three indictments? this is not a case trump can make go away, if he is elected president. he can't pardon himself from state cases. so, how serious is this? case >> here is danny cevallos's top five. i'm gonna give it to you reverend, here exclusively at your show. i'm a serve number two. heat number two and three are the federal indictments, for no other reason than, federal cases statistically almost always end in a conviction. and i would start with the mar-a-lago documents case, and then the most recent d.c. indictment. and then third would be, excuse me fourth will be this fulton county case if, trump is indicted. and then, a distant fifth is new york. now that leaves number one rat, number one that people haven't talked about. i met put at the top the possibility that trump may get himself impossible for contempt, for violent a protective order or, saying something inappropriate to a witness. here's something that chuck todd and i were thrown around recently. for example he is on the debate stage, and he turns to mike pence and says, you are a right, you are a snitch. guess what, prosecutors, they go after people for saying that. if you are irregular nobody that no one's heard of, in criminal court and state court, prosecutors going to go after you if you start calling witnesses a snitch. and mike pence is a potential witness, at the trial. >> wow. finally, governor ron desantis has suspended orlando state attorney monique worrell, over claims that she was too lenient on gun crimes and drug trafficking. it's the second time he has removed a state attorney. laurel was elected to a position, overwhelmingly, and says she plans to run for reelection. danny, what is your analysis of desantis's decision, of just dismissing elected state attorneys? >> this is really an interesting constitutional issue. and one, that at least one federal judge authority ruled upon. and, this is an interesting finding. desantis tried to do this previously, with another elected state attorney. and, the court concluded that this was probably unconstitutional. because unlike the federal government, where all u.s. attorneys serve at the pleasure of the president. instead, florida's constitution, and many other states have a system, where if you are the county attorney, you win that election. it's totally foreseeable, that you may be of a different political party than the governor. and in florida, the court said the term in that the governor does not control those prosecuting attorneys. he may dismiss them for things like incompetence, but he does not get to wrecked the way they prosecute their cases. but, here is the catch. the federal district court that decided this, ultimately ruled that it did not have jurisdiction to intervene, even if this may have violated the florida constitution. because, of the prohibition against federal government infringing on state activity. >> danny cevallos, and time flies here exclusively on politicsnation. thank you for being here. anti affirmative action activists are taking their recent supreme court victory, and running with it, filing a lawsuits, targeting programs meant to give people of color a helping hand. i will speak with two women, at the center of a new lawsuit, after the break. stay with me. stay with me ...because t-mobile helps pano ai innovate, so they can stop the spread of wildfires. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. mr. clean magic eraser powers through tough messes. so it makes it look like i spent hours cleaning, and you know i didn't. it makes my running shoe look like new! it's amazing. it's so good. it makes it look like i have magical powers. magic eraser and sheets make cleaning look easy. i suffer with psoriatic arthritis and psoriasis. it makes it look like i have magical powers. i was on a journey for a really long time to find some relief. cosentyx works for me. cosentyx helps real people get real relief from the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis or psoriasis. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to or if ibd symptoms develop or worsen. i move so much better because of cosentyx. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. welcome back to politicsnation. long before the supreme court banned affirmative action in college admissions, many of us warren warned that the move would lay the groundwork for the criminalization of diversity efforts across the board. within days of the ruling, republican lawmakers started going after everything from state college scholarships, to inclusion efforts at the biggest companies in the private sector in this nation. this month, a venture capital firm, backed by several major corporations, to support for black women business owners, became the target of a discrimination lawsuit by a conservative group. joining me now is -- simone, and oh jana part foods. both are with me tonight, they are the cofounders of the fearless fund. thank you both for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you for having us. >> now, let me begin by asking you, they are saying that your venture capital fund, fearless fund, was sued at the atlantic district court by the american alliance for equal rights, founded by an anti affirmative action activist named edward bloom, whose work was instrumental in the supreme court decision earlier this summer that really gutted affirmative action. this group claims, a 20,000-dollar grant program, you administer four times a year, violates an 1866 civil rights act, banning racial discrimination in contracts. starting with you, miss simone, can you tell our audience about the purpose of your program? >> yes. at the fearless fund, we are the first venture capital fund that is built by women of color, for women of color. our thesis is, that if we invest in women of color cofounders, and the program you're referring to is a program with ourselves, and mastercard, that administers grants to african american business owners, that are female. >> now, miss parsons, this firm is designed to help, primarily black women, close the gap in terms of their presence in the venture capital world. the man behind a lawsuit against, you edward bloom, said this week that, quote, so far, all that has been asserted in defense of this racially exclusive and illegal program are meaningless clichés, unquote. meaningless clichés, how do you react to that? >> well reverend sharpton, i do want to make the distinction. so, we have our fearless thunk fund, which is our investment vehicle. so we've invested over 26 point $5 million, and more than 40 companies, founded by women of color. so, that is inclusive of black women, hispanic women, asian women, all women of color. we also have our fearless foundation, and that's where we do our grant programs, and do a lot of educational programs, quite frankly, for small businesses that aren't ready to be backed by a venture capital fund. what i would tell you is, there are tremendous disparities in the venture capital space. in 2022, more than 288 billion dollars was deployed in veasey funding, in less than 0.4% of that went to women of color. >> less than 0.4? >> less than 0.4. and, two black women, it was zero point 13. >> wow. >> and we had a game-changer, because when we started this work more than four years ago, black women were getting point 000 6% of these funds. >> so, you know, it always comes at me when people raise questions about programs like yours, and funds like yours, and even about affirmative action. because the reason is a drive for this, is to undo what was done. i mean, they act like this is some natural occurrence, that women of color were not getting support. i >> yeah, it's unfortunate, because women of color are the most bum -- demographic. they are just, we are just the least funded. >> now miss parsons, your primary corporate partner in the credit card company, mastercard, which was mentioned. i wonder what it says to you, that mr. blossoms group sued your firm, and not your much larger collaborator. they're going after your, not the companies that work with you. >> well here's what i would just tell you, reverend sharpton. while we can't comment on the case, this case is so much bigger than us. as you stated so eloquently earlier, vellum started with higher education, and is now attacking -- . but quite frankly, he is attacking all of our economic freedom, and that's going to include minority suppliers, it's going to include corporations. anything related to diversity, equity, and inclusion is under attack right now. >> well, let me make it clear. and i'm saying this as i've said at -- when i talked to you. this case, if it goes the way bloom, who did succeed in the supreme court, could and diversity programs, minority business programs. i mean, this case is much bigger than just you guys. this is to really make it a legal for the private sector government to try and make numbers become reflective of the population, or at least be competitive. and this is a real critical case. according to the atlanta general constitution, your firm has invested more than 40 companies found by women of color in the last four years. obviously, having black women at the forefront is central to what fearless fund does. how, do you as black women entrepreneurs, react to the suggestion that what you are trying to do is discriminatory, it's a civil rights violation, they are trying to say? miss simone, you first, and then miss parsons. >> the reaction is simple. there is clearly a reason why we are doing this work, it's because there is a need. and we would continue to do this work, the statistics are clear. my partner has already stated them. this would not even be up for discussion, unless the playing field was equal. so again, we will continue to do this work, and if the playing field was equal, the program with neeson even exist. >> miss parsons? >> well, what i would just say to that, and i've said that, i saw okay broken record. we've got to make the math makes sense. women of color make up 20.3% of the u.s. population, and we are talking about getting 0.4% of the funding. so this is again about equity, and it's about economic freedom. and there is no way, in 2023, when we comprise 20% of the u.s. population, that we should be getting 0.4% of the funding. it's abysmal. it's embarrassing. >> and my point is that, to say you are being discriminatory, you're fighting what has been discriminatory, because a lot of these companies could not get funds, could not get to see money to move forward. now, you are trying to in many ways, remedy bad history, and you are being blamed for what has instituted this in the first place. it's just like, in colleges when they talk about legacy is all right, but having race is not all right. when a lot of the legacy was built when we could not go to the schools. the legacy themselves, we're bigoted. well, i think this is important, will go straight on this, and we're going to watch this case. and, a lot of us are going to be standing there, dealing with this issue with you. -- and -- thank you both for joining us on politicsnation. up next, for my final thoughts, stay with us. stay with us rk. i use secret aluminum free. just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. and hours later, i still smell fresh. secret works! ohhh yesss. ♪♪ >> woman: why did we choose safelite? 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