It is sunday, august 13th. You are watching velshi on msnbc. Im Charles Coleman junior, filling in from my friend, ali velshi. Georgia, georgia, no piece did i find but that Fulton County indictment thats on my mind. Im paraphrasing from the great greg charles. Georgia on the might of a lot of people, including donald trump, were a fourth possible criminal indictment of the former president could be filed in a matter of days. The states former lieutenant governor, jeff duncan, said yesterday that hes received notice asking him to appear before the grand jury on tuesday. Additionally, independent journalists, george, posted on social media that he received a call from the office of Fulton County district attorney, fani willis, also asking him to come in on tuesday to give his testimony. These are still the clearest finds out that fani willis will present her case to the grand jury in the coming weeks and pursue a criminal indictment in the States Election interference case. Security measures and Law Enforcement presence have noticeably increased around and in Fulton County courthouse. In recent days. This also is fueling further speculation that an indictment is imminent. Willis has previously said that any Charging Decisions regarding this matter will be announced before september 1st, which is just about two weeks away. And then, on top of that, this morning, cnn is reporting that georgia prosecutors have evidence the former president s legal team was directly involved with a Voting System breach shortly after the 2020 election. This is really big news. According to cnn, prosecutors have emails and Text Messages that directly linked trumps team to the intent by local allies to access Voting Systems in georgia as early as january of 2021. Now, nbc news has not independently verified this information, nor have we seen the messages cited in the report. But this is still very explosive stuff that can make fani williss indictment a blockbuster. Joining me to unpack all of this is the great jill winebanks. She previously served as a Special Assistant to the Watergate Scandal as a prosecutor. She is my friend and also an msnbc legal analyst. Jill, so glad to join you. Youve also written the watergate girl, My Fight For Truth And Justice against the criminal president. We also have with us marks they, a Managing Partner of and an adjunct professor at Johns Hopkins university, as well as being the Executive Director and founder of the James Madison project. Its great to have you both. Jill, i would get started with you. Former prosecutor, you know this like anyone else, its not being reported that donald trump and possibly others could be charged under a in georgia. Im talking to how significant this is. Could you break this down for our viewers . Just in terms of, you know, when youre talking about a group of people being indicted under a rico statute, how significant is that . Why does it matter so much . One of the reasons, charles, that it matters so much is that it has a minimum mandatory sentence. That is scary. It is not a maximum, its a minimum and its mandatory. That means jail time for whoever is convicted under the statute. It also allows the prosecutor, i have to point out, d. A. Willis has been very successful in using these charges in other cases. Although it was originally created for Organized Crime, while i was in the Organized Crime section, it has been used well beyond the mafia. So, it could be that there will be a lot of in the ordinary case, you wanted to name all the conspirators in one place. That could lead to some of them flipping because of the mandatory minimum sentence. Its a very big danger for donald trump. Also allows proof of an overarching conspiracy with individual predicate acts, the underlying crimes that were part of the goal of overturning the election, of committing a coup. It can be very dramatic. It cannot be pardoned, except by a special committee within the state of georgia. Even the governor does not have individual power to pardon such a crime. It has a lot of components that make it very dangerous to donald trump and his conspirators. Thats exactly right. Ive been saying that this is not a civil case like e. Jean carroll or Laetitia James in new york. Its not a local case like alvin bragg. Most importantly, this is not a case like jack smith where there is a potential pardon at the end of the rainbow here. In terms of Fulton County and donald trump, of all of his legal troubles that are currently on the board, this is the one where there is likely no way out for him, which is why he needs to take this very seriously and he has to be extremely concerned about whatever fani willis is presenting in the grand jury this week. Mark, if hes charged under rico statute, this could be way more expensive than what were seeing from jack smith and special counsels Election Interference Case and involve a number of different people around or in trumps orbit. How might that complicate things for donald trump . Well, as jill said, its much more likely that somebody is going to flip, especially if its someone whos not necessarily the sink offend we see in all the other cases where hes paying their legal fees, i presume this might be some regular georgia residents who were part of the election process, who got roped in, similar to what were seeing in michigan. There is also, it appears, there could very well be a number of attorneys. That could be incredibly dangerous to donald trump because if the Attorney Client privilege is breached, that means, i know about the communications i have with clients for strategizing, with the assumption and understanding those will never be public. Im not conspiring to create criminal offenses, it gives State Of Mind of not only myself as the lawyer, but of the client as well. That obviously can be incredibly damning to the president , the former president. Jill, weve had so much conversation about Fulton County, everything thats going on in south florida, as well as jack smiths charges in d. C. But lets remember that there is still the grand jury in d. C. Thats also meeting. What does that tell us . What do you think that means in terms of any more potential federal indictments that could be filed against the former president . I obviously, it raises the question of whether there will be charges in d. C. We also have to look at the minister. He disclosed confidential documents, classified documents at his club in new jersey. So, its also possible there could be charges against him, brought their. Then, he was very important because wherever the crime is committed is where prosecutor must bring the charges. So, i think there are many more that could possibly be. We dont really know exactly what those other possibilities are, whether theyre checks fraud would be in d. C. , theres so many possibilities that it could be, at some point, there are enough cases that you can cover every possible criminal conduct. And were gonna have to get to trial on some of the ones that have already been brought. Joel, with that point, i want to ask you very quickly, if youre jack smith, given what you just said, which case, what case, whats the priority . You know, theyre all important violations of our laws. To me, i would have to say that the coup attempt is the most important. It was intended to take down the very fundamental pillars of our democracy. It was a deliberate and consistent, well orchestrated plan that involved many moving parts, laid out in the Election Interference indictment. It includes, of course, the fake electors, a dramatic thing. It could also involve the County Interference with the computer. It also involves every other thing that is alleged in that indictment. There are several conspiracies. The bottom line is it makes every american a victim because it is intended to deprive us of the right to have all of our votes counted and to have the person who won the election actually put into office. It interfered with the peaceful transfer of power. To me, thats the most important. Having served in the pentagon, thought with classified information, thats also important. We cannot have someone disclosing or wrongfully retaining and putting in danger any of our national secrets. Thats also important. Every one of these cases is important. Its important that state laws, indicated through state prosecutions. I think, you know, new york and georgia are important cases as well. Its really hard to pick, one sorry, charles, cannot help there. You did your best, i appreciate that as always. Msnbc legal analyst, jill winebanks, and marks i, thank you both. Still to come, as we gear up for an unprecedented election, will investigate why Republican Voters tend not to believe what they hear from the people they vote for and why they vote for them anyways. Plus, we marked 15 years of hiphop, threats history, hiphop in the criminal Justice System have put one another on trial. Ill talk about it with professor as well as legendary rapper, bundy. And the latest on the Rescue Efforts in hawaii. Now experiencing the deadliest wildfire in modern american history. What you can do to help. We will be right back after a short break. Im Charles Coleman junior, sitting in for ali velshi, youre watching velshi on msnbc. G velshi o msnbc. The titan turkey. Piled high with double the cheese and more meat. I proffer freshly sliced turkey. Its my favorite mouth guard flavor. Mmmm. Now available at subway. The sub, not the mouth guard. Tourists tourists that turn into scientists. 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Nbcs dana griffin reports on the humanitarian efforts underway. By air, by sea, and by road, supplies are being delivered throw maui to those cut off and displaced. When we first left, it was literally the clothes on her back. Giannis and say they barely escaped the flames and lahaina. Now, there among the estimated 4500 people in the island in desperate need of housing. Whats the state of your home . The complex have buildings that are burned, buildings that are standing. Ours is standing, but we cannot get in because of the downed power lines, no running water, no electricity. And she says even though Police Officer helped them get inside briefly to retrieve clothing, the apartment will never be inhabitable again. They now need a place to sleep, food, water, and a way to survive moving forward. Its a very Close Community and lahaina, like, my job, the building burned down. Some people are without jobs. We have trucks full of supplies, more trucks full of supplies. Across maui, residents have been doing what they can to help. Maui prep will be doing Food Distribution at 11 a. M. And with phone Service Still disrupted, Radio Stations like 93. 5 fm are broadcasting extra hours to get messages out about resources and trying to help families reconnect. We have our lahaina people, people in the west side who are cut off from communication. Its been really tough for them to communicate with the side and vice versa. Five days after the devastating fire broke out, so many people still are unaccounted for. Do you know if anyone made it or didnt make it, are still missing . Yes, so, we have a couple people that were still looking for from our congregation. Minister Historical Church and lahaina was destroyed. She shared this image of the church before the wildfire. This is what it looks like now. Our thanks to nbcs dana griffin for that report. If you want to help but with the effort, please reach out to any of the organizations you see here on the screen. Next, some Republican Voters are reluctant to take donald trump at his word. For example, when he said he would restrict abortion, didnt actually think it would happen. This is the mindset that is putting our democracy in peril. We will have more after a short break, right here on velshi on msnbc. Well be right back. ll be right back. You need sinex saline from vicks. Just sinex, breathe, ahhhh [sniffs] what is wow baby daddy. Sinex. Breathe. Ahhhhhh family is just very important. Shes my sister and, we depend on each other a lot. Shes the rock of the family. Shes the person who holds everything together. Its a battle, you know im going to be there. Keytruda and chemotherapy meant treating my cancer with two different types of medicine. In a clinical trial, keytruda and chemotherapy was proven to help people live longer than chemotherapy alone. 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