behavior and the stakes. it was a bracing message. he will be treated like any other defendant. trump did not attend the hearing in washington today, and that's fine. you can have these kind of hearings among lawyers. his defense team entered this morning. we saw that, tracked that. hearing about what, in other cases, might be a more routine matter. what are the rules of evidence before you go to trial? how can it be discussed? so this is basically the framework, ground rules, you may have heard the reference to a protective order. now judge chutkan rejected donald trump's request to speak in broader general terms about some of that evidence. he'll be restricted from publicly discussing the sensitive materials. the ruling came out late today. the judge says if defendant trump receives sensitive materials has part of this case, meaning stuff he might not otherwise get but for being a criminal defendant, his lawyers may not allow defendant trump to write down any personally identifying information. now that may sound like relatively bland or standard protocol, but what it means and what it also refers to is how donald trump has basically been accused of credibly abusing information in the past. jack smith's other case is about him stealing classified materials to use it in whatever way he wanted. there's a tape of him using it to try to settle political scores or discredit people. so this is trying to prevent donald trump from doing anything like that, including up to any new crime like witness tampering. sensitive is the key word, because it won't apply to every piece of evidence. in this morning's hearing, the judge also issued tough warnings for a defendant who, of course, has tried to lash out or intip deviate people inside the the justice system. now, i want to show you a piece of this. you may wonder what you're looking at here. i wanted to bring it up on the screen before i got to this. you're looking at the circus or carnivals, and sometimes words don't paint the picture of pictures with a thousand words. i wanted to show you this carnival and this carnival-like atmosphere to share with you part of what the judge says will not be allowed. so that's a carnival. that's something we all know. the judge went out of her way today, in this first clash hearing between jack smith's team and trump's lawyers, to say she simply will not tolerate any kind of "carnival atmosphere." "the more a party makes inflammatory statements about this case which could taint the jury pool, the greater the urgency will be to proceed to trial quickly." i want to make one more point about this. i want to be as precise and fair as possible. the judge is saying that in general. so as a general matter, was that shade against any which side? i think the judge would say or a reasonable view of the transcript would be, in general, she said no carnival atmosphere. then we add context. jack smith and his team have not done anything to foment a carnival atmosphere. as we were discussing last night, he barely speaks. he's spoken in public for 4 1/2 minutes total in two brief appearances in his entire tenure. it is quite clearly the inference that the judge was speaking to the other side. no one's allowed to make a carnival atmosphere, including the doj. but she's clearly directing that at defendant trump and the people around him who have made a carnival-like atmosphere, who have selectively quoted and taken things they've received like target letters and tried to turn that into fund-raising and merch and attacks on law enforcement, attacks on d.a. bragg, who was, along with the president, named in a threat this week that was dealt with. this is a carnival, and beyond. and this is the context for that today. the judge also said defendant trump's argument that the restrictions on what he would say would harm his campaign aren't really going to get a lot of look from her. "this is a criminal trial. i cannot and i will not factor into my decisions the effect it's going to have on a political campaign for either side." meaning, again, jack smith reports into the garland justice department which reports into the biden administration. this case has independence, but the judge is saying as fairly as possible, i'm not worried about either of your campaigns. she also went out of her way to say when it comes to the idea that there's a selective prosecution, that somehow trump has been targeted not for what he did but for who he is, which if you can show evidence of that, that would be wrong. well, donald trump coming up short. the judge, who again is the nonpartisan party here, i'm not just quoting jack submit. here's what the judge said. "i haven't seen any evidence this is politically motivated." that's a setback for any in-court selection process claim. that's what we've talked about, the difference between when you say out here, and this team have any right to make any claim they want. they have the freedom of speech to say, it's not that we got in trouble for what we did, it is that donald trump is being unfairly attacked, witch hunt, they have the freedom of speech to say that. what the judge is saying in court is, so far, that is a worthless, baseless, zero-type legal claim. which means it won't help them avoid trial, it won't be the kind of thing they'll likely be able to present to the jury, unless they find evidence of it. the judge rejecting the defense claim that the free speech rights are being challenged in court. he has all the free speech to talk out of court. the idea that free speech is a license to a coup or a conspiracy, that's never been true. it's not legally true. we've heard versions of that from trump's lawyers on air. >> what the position of the prosecutor is nonsensitive, ordinary evidence should not be disclosed to the press. that's shocking. not only do they want to violate president trump's first amendment rights, they want to violate freedom of the press. >> now, let's show you the quote. "mr. trump, like every american, has a first amendment right to free speech, but that right is not absolute. in a criminal case such as this one, the defendant's free speech is subject to the rules," adding that crump is a criminal defendant, "he's going to have restrictions like every other defendant." the judge saying today, "the defense is supposed to happen in this courtroom, not on the internet. to the extent your client wants to make statements on the internet, they always have to yield to witness security, witness safety. i see the possibility of a lot of problems here." what's really interesting is, there is a public clash any time you get the legal process involved. you could have the police stop someone outside a restaurant. if there's photos of it or discussion of it, people might think that person did something wrong and they didn't. donald trump legally is presumed innocent, and he can certainly go out in public and talk about that. the is being quite strict with defendant trump and his team. while those concerns might be generally real, and they're afforded a certain set of free speech rights in america, that's not a license to say anything any time, which is to say in trial, it's not a defense of fears, it's that you're allowed to talk. in pretrial, meaning in the ramp-up to this trial, it's not something that means trump can violate protective order rules or evidence rules or take sensitive information he only got because jack smith's team provided it for trial prep -- like grand jury interviews that are secret -- to go blabbing about it in public, he doesn't have that right as a defendant. he doesn't. as for the real-world concern these things should be handled in court and not in public, there is a strange overlap. jack smith, back to when he talked a little bit in the earlier days of his career, has shared the idea, the framework that you've got to be careful with this stuff because you don't want to be unfair. he talked about, that's why it is generally better within trials to let the evidence do the talking and not have a society that preconvicts people based on hype. here is a younger jack smith. >> we don't want to live in a society where someone is convicted based on what's in the newspapers. we don't want to live in a society of a form of mob rule where we just get a few allegations without any process and convict somebody. i think that's the role of the prosecutor is to take allegations like that when they're public and investigate and see if the facts actually back up what's there. is the allegation and the source of it credible? is there exculpatory information on the other side? is there corroborating information that makes it even stronger? >> information. evidence. facts. and discipline and restraint when it comes to the public side of all that. it's actually kind of what you want out of a model prosecutor. it why is, although i've explained before that this is an area of nuance, the doj doesn't have one rule about what you can say -- people in law enforcement can give longer remarks, they can give interviews -- but you'll notice that some of these really respected, by the book prosecutors -- the mueller types, the smith types, they err on the side of caution. which is actually fair to the defendant. the judge ended this hearing saying today, "i will take whatever measures are necessary to safeguard the integrity of these proceedings." that is also a warning if defendant trump goes so far to tempt being held in contempt of court. now, that's a lot. we just digested. i have thoughts and questions. former federal prosecutor and u.s. attorney joyce vance. i want to request about what we learned today. stay with me. one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. aleve. who do you take it for? with the freestyle libre 2 system, know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence. freestyle libre 2. try it for free at freestylelibre.us back with former prosecutor joyce vance. what were your key takeaways from this first matchup, this first pretrial hearing between jack smith's team, trump's team, and this judge? >> i think something we can take comfort in during today's proceeding was the fair way the judge handled herself. she is, after all, a former defense lawyer. she represents now neither party, and her job is to get things right. and she seemed intent on doing that. she was very critical of prosecutors earlier in the hearing asking why they wanted to enter this broad order. and she settled on the notion of including only sensitive information in the protective order. but that still is very broad. that will protect grand jury material, that will protect everything that has come over from the january 6th committee. although she gave the parties the ability to negotiate that a little bit if they wanted to lighten it up. ultimately, what this does is everything that a protective order is meant to do. it protects witnesses, and it protects the jury process. and she has made it clear that she will react swiftly if trump crosses the line. >> yeah, and i appreciate you mentioning the government position. again, people can think of this, if you want to be really simplistic, like being at the car dealership. you kind of know some of the prices aren't the final price. you go back and forth. and so the justice department, well within its rights and strategy, doesn't necessarily start where they think they're going to end. they definitely took -- we talked about this -- a larger swing on the evidence, basically like, well, maybe you can't talk about anything. let's loop it all in. the trump lawyers, who have a hard case and a hard client, i think everybody understands why, they did say something legally reasonable, which is, surely we can't let the opponent -- in their case jack smith -- decide what sensitive is and be so overly broad that it restricts that which otherwise doesn't have legal protection. so explain. you alluded to it a little more of where the judge, who is supposed to be more the arbiter here, where the judge came down on that distinction. >> right, so she does a good job of narrowing things a little bit. she does tell them in the courtroom, you all are free to go back and alter this. you can, by agreement, change the scope of what's covered. very importantly here, tapes are covered. transcripts are covered. materials that came from other federal agencies are covered. and there are a couple of risks here that she's trying to head off. and one of the big ones is this. not all of the evidence that the government produces in discovery will be admissible at trial. ari, as you know, there are some fairly stringent rules about what evidence the government gets to put in front of a jury. one of the risks here, if trump decides to seize on something in one of these transcripts, he could have, if she had not imposed this order, perhaps taken a single line in a recording and played it over and over. and if it was something that ultimately is not admissible in court, there's a real risk of jury taint. so what she's doing here is what every good trial judge does. she's trying to make sure that no matter what happens in her courtroom, it can be affirmed on appeal by the court of appeals. >> understood. with the 30 seconds i have left, beyond just this evidence clash, did you see anything from the judge today that gave you insight to what she'll be like overseeing the whole trial in the future? >> fair but not unduly deferential. the legal system has shown a lot of deference to president trump trump as a former president. the kid gloves look to be off, and now he's just like everyone else in this country. he is mr. trump, not president trump. >> there you have it. some concise words of wisdom heading into the weekend. joyce, always good to see you. >> good to see you too, ari. i'm about to show you something you need to see to believe. it relates to the kind of show we're cooking up. we've got a lot more on the news. by the end of the hour, something fun. take a listen to then president obama breaking down his governing theme music. >> allow me to close with a quick preview of the secret agenda you can expect in a second obama administration. in my first term i sang al vreens. in my second term, i'm going with young jeezy. >> president obama explaining you need that big jeezy energy. well, the actual jeezy is on "the beat" by the end of the hour tonight. coming up next, how donald trump played himself and brought on jack smith's indictment. ds, i think i waited this long to get botox® cosmetic because i take like no time for myself. my kids are sports kids. we're always running from one activity to another. i'm still tonya and i got botox® cosmetic... and this is like the first thing i've done for me in a really, really long time. my life is still crazy, it's just as full as it was before... just with less lines. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet, and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com. sometimes, the lows of bipolar depression feel darkest before dawn. with caplyta, there's a chance to let in the lyte. caplyta is proven to deliver significant relief across bipolar depression. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta treats both bipolar i and ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants may increase these risks in young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report fever, confusion, stiff or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be life threatening or permanent. these aren't all the serious side effects. caplyta can help you let in the lyte. ask your doctor about caplyta. find savings and support at caplyta.com. mr. senna's into nature. professor kot's into science. but together, we work! like our senokot laxatives. to relieve occasional constipation, senokot's made from the senna plant. refined by science to be reliable. perfect match! just like us! hmph! senokot. the citi custom cash℠ card automatically adjusts to earn you more cash back in your top eligible spend category. hi. ♪♪ you don't have to keep tabs on rotating categories... this is the only rotating i care about. ... or activate anything to earn. your cash back automatically adjusts for you. can i get a cucumber water? 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>> you're right in part. a big reason trump announced his run is he fears criminal prosecution. he's a desperate man, a threatened and rabid animal. >> in private conversations, pretty blunt that they see it as, he has to win the election, and that is how he guarantees that he does not face jail time. >> it's pretty amazing that when trump ran in 2016, his slogan was "lock her up." in 2024 it's going to be "vote for me or i'm going to go to jail." >> this is so widely understood that you can hear all the references to it, right? when i say that trump brought the special appointment on himself, i don't mean that as a kind of casual, general remark. i mean, we've done the reporting, and if you go look at the actual reason, because trump was a political figure, he was a former president. the trigger for naming the special counsel as explained in the announcement and in writing by attorney general garland was that trump has formally declared his candidacy. that, again, was only done super early for these reasons. because then, within three days, merrick garland announced, because trump declared, in this case very early, there would now be special counsel smith. >> i am tonight announcing my candidacy for president of the united states. >> based on recent developments, including the former president's announcement that he is a candidate for president in the next election, i have concluded that it is in the public interest to appoint a special counsel. >> the announcement was the trigger that changed everything. and up until that point in november, doj under garland and the fbi had been resistant to even starting a probe into trump, let alone indicting him, as smith did. and you can then see how we went from that glacial pace to warp speed. smith appointed november 2022. seven months later, he indicts donald trump in the documents case. i think if we can pull it up, we have an image. two months after that in the coup case. so all of this comes in the context of doj rules which prohibit prosecutors from bringing charges too close to an election. here, as you see, trump candidacy, then you have, once that's declared, the doj's smith appointment. then you get, as mentioned, those charges. docs indictment, seven months, then coup. the policy says prosecutors cannot indict or make other actions close to elections. if trump had announced later, like typical candidates, this is the reporting i want to show you. if you just move the timing, if he's used the typical announcement window, well, jack smith appointed, right? there's the announcement window. say if it went seven months out of the normal time, it would have been at december, running into the primaries. probably within the doj's 60-day rule. and it would never happen. we have a special guest for all of this. michael hirsch horn is here to discuss how donald trump played himself. welcome back, michael. >> always great to be here. and i don't want to be overly fulsome in my praise, but that's a great analysis. >> thank you, michael. let's put it back up on the screen. i mentioned this once this week, but there's been a lot going on. i wanted to bring you in. this is the first time we're talking about it live on a friday night. when you look at the hypothetical, the second one we showed, i'll put that back up and you can talk over it. we'll go to the next one. that's what happened, the hypothetical. the typical announcement window is literally what trump did the time before. you save a lot of money and legal headaches if you announce later. that's why candidates in both parties do it. had he just done that, under doj rules, the special counsel probably wouldn't even have been allowed to act within weeks of the primaries. what does it tell you about trump or human nature that, like these ancient tragic tales of thousands of years ago, how running your fate, trying to game things, sometimes brings it on yourself? >> well, i think there's an extraordinary arrogant power and a sense that he can get away with anything. and i think historically, again throughout literature, that is what seals your fate. he gets to a certain point, and then the arrogance, he flies too close to the sun, and suddenly that's it for him. and his wings melt, and he's done. the limitation, i think, of that metaphor, oedipus rex, that happens in the context when he discovers he slept with his mother, he blinds himself, his mother kills herself. that would require a level of shame that i think you'll never see from trump. >> yeah, well, you clearly know -- again, i can't summarize every piece of the story in the time we have. but we'll keep pictures on screen. those tears that are such a famous part of the end of the story, as you point out, are self-inflicted. that he -- we talk about justice as society's rules. you're reminding people that in this play, in this parallel of human values, that he punishes himself, as you say, out of a sense of propriety or shame that you don't see in this particular defendant? >> that's right. i think the proper metaphor, you know, after you guys were in touch, i looked at it. ian esco's "rhinoceros" from the '50s which dealt with the rise of fascism. it was about the triumph of brute force over reason and post-truth over truth. and i think trump lives in that world. and ultimately, what he's setting up, he's really gained in the ultimate bluff. which is that his assault on truth, his assault on facts, his assault on law, is ultimately going to win. and for trump to succeed at this, he has to be all-in. he cannot in any way show any doubt. he cannot concede anything. he must continue with the bluff, either until he wins and we live in a post-law, post-truth america, or he loses, and he goes to jail. >> yeah. first of all, i love you bringing enesco into it. have you got any friend horse deadheads, michael? >> a couple. but i try to stay away from them. >> ha. i'm getting a deadhead vibe, where someone's like, "oh, yeah, it was like red rocks '84." then, "well, no, it was actually more like this european tour if you go back to paris '72." then "well, if you want paris '72, there's the haight-ashbury b sideshow that you don't even have the tapes for." you're getting ian esco out of our sophocles, i appreciate that. brash, blatant crimes out there coups are not allowed, telling you each component piece was mundane or normal. "we already talked about that, why is everyone so upset?" we heard from john eastman's lawyer, and he does this mundane game. >> he looked at history, looked a the historical examples, presented the various options, recommended at the end what he thought was the best option consistent with his client's interest and the law which was -- >> that's not quite true. >> you brainstorm, you do research, you talk to other people. and eventually, perhaps your mind changes on question at the beginning you had a different opinion. this is utterly mundane for anybody engaged in the day-to-day law -- >> that was some of the back and forth. it wasn't university utterly minute dawn. we also gave him time and we learn from guests, as you know. i'm curious, not on the law, but why we come to you sometimes as a really insightful analyst of what some call the spectacle of politics. what do you see in what seems like a bad or weak argument? coups are mundane, or the component parts are mundane. what do you see them doing here as they head into an election? trying to say, this was just one more normal thing? >> i think it's part of a kind of standard post-truth toolkit, which is deflection, what-ery, belittlement. this is the case of sort of, if you continually say "this is mundane," perhaps enough people will believe you. you start feeling ridiculous. i have to say, as a progressive, i often feel ridiculous around trump people getting upset about things, worrying about the future of our democracy. what the lawyer was doing was creating a permission system for people to reject and sort of dismiss these charges as just not mattering. >> yeah, that's really striking. as you say, the structure is a psychological concept, to also give people a way to deflect or dismiss even if they don't endorse the underlying thing. they manual street or country club republicans who have shown no prior interest in insurrections or coups but they want this tax policy or something else -- i say that because again, we'll do these interviews, but it's important to understand what the truth is, what the law is. know there's nothing routine about using fraud to try to, even peacefully, even if you weren't doing it violently, overthrow the election on january 6th, or 19th, or 20th. michael, thank you for joining us in the middle of the hot summer august friday. we appreciate it. >> great being here. >> absolutely. we've got a lot more coming up. i mentioned it's a special show. andrew weissman has some thoughts on not only whether there should be cameras in the courtroom, but these court sketches we are required to use. plus more intrigue at the doj. we have a lot coming up. astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel- nothing beats it. new pronamel active shield actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a gamechanger for my patients- it really works. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. she runs and plays like a puppy again. his #2s are perfect! he's a brand new dog, all in less than a year. when people switch their dog's food from kibble to the farmer's dog, they often say that it feels like magic. but there's no magic involved. 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movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i didn't have to change my treatment. i just gave it a lift. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. we've had upaffidavits on defendant trump's trials, including two federal trials, which means we'll be getting a lot more court sketches. let's see if we have any, show you some of these sketches. one of the things that happens, there we go, is donald trump, like when he was arraigned, goes in there and it's kind of funny to remember that basically, the reason we have to rely on sketches in a time of endless video, social media, artificial intelligence, we're still in kind of a technology, if you will, that's many, many centuries old because the cameras are not allowed in federal courtrooms. this one you're looking at here, donald trump with what looks to be his lawyer next to him, maybe talking to him, maybe covering his mouth, drew all kinds of reaction because people were debating whether it looks like trump or what you kids might do. andrew weissman knows his way around federal courtrooms. that's where he spent is majority of his career. i want to show you a lighthearted moment where he's been on the program, we were in realtime looking at these sketches when they first broke, trying to figure out who was who, what was what. here was andrew taking some light shade at one of the artists. >> this is holding to account a political leader who tried to engage in a coup. the courtroom sketches are not the best. that's sort of my read of a poor drawing. >> wow, shots fired at the cartoonist. >> exactly. >> we went on to discuss where andrew checks out art, and he likes chelsea. i say all that by way of introduction, because andrew and mary mccourt, who you see on this great preview tease, are going to be our special guests on "prosecuting donald trump" which airs this sunday, 10:00 p.m. eastern. it is brand-new. it will be our special, a tease off some of their work and the "prosecuting donald trump" podcast. i am hosting it or you'll see i'm cohosting with andrew. it's brand-new, airing for the first time sunday night. it's a chance to go even deeper -- i know what you might say, we go deep on "the beat," we do. going even deeper into some of the arcane and detailed legal matters. join us sunday, 10:00 p.m. eastern. dvr it, set up a dvr recording, maybe catch it later when you feel like it. this sunday, 10:00 p.m. eastern, on msnbc. we're going to fit in a break. i mentioned we're going to end the week in style. that's by the end of the hour. before that we'll look at what it means when doj has so much intrigue that it has more than one special counsel. i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines 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(vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. many americans are marking the 50th anniversary of hip-hop. here on "the beat," we don't need a birthday or a news hook to honor a platform of the culture. we have been trying to do that since the show first launches. just like jazz and soul before it, hip-hop has endured by not only tapping into authentic, real american experiences no matter how rough or tough or sad, but leading in areas where mainstream figures sometimes fall behind. that could be police brutality or the drug war or harlem, compton, or atlanta. now an epicenter of culture, music, and political change, i think we have all been following that. well, a lot of young people in america first learned more about atlanta and the trap, as it's sometimes called, from atlanta's own narrators. andre 3,000, gucci, ludacris, t.i., the future, and then, well, learned a lot from jeezy, the rapper and entrepreneur who burst on the scene with hits like soul survivor, put on, and my president is black, which barack obama certainly heard. he famously said his first term energy was al green. but his second term, triumph theme music, was jeezy. that's a pretty high compliment from the highest office in the land. and jeezy is our special guest tonight. >> what's going on? >> here we are, after plenty of writing, poetry, across ten albums, i want to make sure everybody knows you have your first book, adversity for sale. you have to believe your story of struggle. hustle and success. congratulations. thanks for being here. there thank you, brother. a long time coming. >> absolutely. obama shout out, what i mentioned about atlanta. i mean that. i'm not just saying that. whether it's our viewers or some of our viewers, maybe their kids. you narrated atlanta. you put a spotlight on it, and a different light on it. where does that connect to the story you're telling in the book? >> i think it all connects. it started with my humble beginnings and how i learned about life was through music. i grew up on the eight-ball mjgs, outkast, tupac was the one who took me. one thing about atlanta, it's like a melting pot of creativity, leaders, and entrepreneurs. and the music is the root to all that. i was able to tie all that together with the streets and just the tempo of the streets and the grit of the streets in my music. >> that's something that matters when we look over the course of your career. in the book, you really share how you came up, which might be different from people learning about you when you were, as we might say, on, succeeding. we have put together some highlights. let's take a look. ♪♪ >> we got the legend here, man. >> what it do? what the business is? it's your boy. >> talk about a man that's grind after grind. staying relevant, staying everywhere, with a hit record, hit album, classic album. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> you see it runs the gauntlet. >> real, man. have you put my tour set list together. >> that what we do. and i was thinking about some of those high points that i remember, just growing up on it naturally. then you starting the book out by saying, let's be real. i started out as a thief. i started out doing things i wouldn't do now that i'm in the position that i don't feel the pressure i have to. walk us through that. >> basically, i lived abroad. and my parents got divorced, i had to move back with my grandmother into a small town in georgia. and most of my family is between atlanta and south georgia. and i was basically back in, you know, real life, like poverty. and i had to really figure it out. so i was ambitious and curious. and i wanted things. i didn't know how to get them. so i thought stealing at that point was success because if there's something there, and i am able to get it without you catching me, i felt successful. that was in the beginning until i found out that stealing wasn't a good thing. then after that, i wanted to get back to what i knew, because i did have a different life. so now, i don't want to work in the factory, i don't want to clean nobody's house. so now i'm looking at my older cousin and they're hustling. i'm going, i can do that. and then i started hustling. that's how that came about. >> led me read from that. culture is so influential. if people are allowed to grow up and mature, then we can mature along with them. we have a society here that's cut down so many people. you write, i always gravitated towards the bad kids because that's what i knew. in the hood, i didn't feel out of place. everybody was going through something, dysfunctional families were the norm. being bad was almost a good thing, a way to fit in. is it possible then to make it cool to be good? >> i'm trying. you know, not to be cool to be good, but cool to evolve. >> yeah. >> to become, you know, your best version of yourself. and i think that that's the message, because all the music has ever been to me is how to get out of poverty. what happens when you get out of it? do you still keep the same mind set and bring that into your life or do you pivot. >> if your lifestyle changes but your mind set doesn't, you're bringing it with you. >> which is happening in culture if you look at it. rap is the new streets. it's more dangerous than being in the streets at some point. you know what i'm saying, if you look at that and culture, 50 years of hip-hop, we're celebrating. i want to be the front runner, the trail blazer. if you're a lion, you're a lion. you're still who you are, but you're able to evolve. you're able to live out what you worked so hard for. when you look at all these kids who die young, pop smoke, nipsey hussle. they were great people. and they really had a vision. but what happened was, you know, when you bring that same energy with you to your new life, your new position, you're not exempt. so it's like, at what point do you evolve so you can be in the game 10, 15, 20 years like a jay-z, like a dr. dre. like a sean combs. this era doesn't look like what they're molding. >> we're not above dad jokes around here. you go by jeezy. >> yeah. >> we're going to take a look at young jeezy. by which i mean, not just your old rap name, but also a younger jeezy. it really works now that you have gotten on. let's take a look. this is running back a ways. young jeezy. >> younger generation coming up. doing my thing. >> streets ain't the same. i'm trying to restore that. >> they don't want to hear what i rap up. when i'm out, like hey, man, it's tight. >> okay. i haven't seen that in a long time. >> same guy? >> yeah, same guy. different mind set. >> yeah. so the final thing i do, these are like lightning round in a word or a sentence. in a word or a sentence, atlanta. >> music. >> culture. >> atlanta. >> i like that. the trap means -- >> the trap means that's where the cheese is at. >> hustling means. >> hustling means that that's the beginning point. the hustling must die, so the ceo can be born. >> success means. >> overcoming adversity. >> that brings me to the last one. i was going to say, adversity for sale means -- >> adversity for sale means that you learn from your failures. you don't fail. just know i had to fail my way here. i didn't succeed the whole way. so i'm giving you my playbook. >> i love that. >> got to believe. >> thank you for coming through. >> thank you for having me. >> and we wish all of hip-hop a happy 50th anniversary today. you can find me at arimelber.com, and joy reid takes over right now. tonight on "the reidout" -- we don't want you to speak about the case. the case. sir, we'd like to talk to you about your case. i'm sorry, i'm not allowed to talk about it. somehow, that's not good for votes. do you