The Special Counsel. This is the first signal that Delay Tactics will not stand in her honors courtroom. Plus, Congressman Colin is on the ballot in texas. Hes vying for senator ted cruzs seat. How he plans to impact his democratic rivals. I am symone sanderstownsend and i have something to say. By this time tomorrow, Donald Trumps attorneys will be up against a five pm deadline. The judge in this case could be setting the tone for what is ahead. This election interference trial. The first major decision of the case, judge Tanya Chutkan denied the trump legal teams request for an extension of the deadline to respond to the governments proposal for a protective order. Appointed by former president barack obama in 2014, judge chutkan has handed down at least 38 sentences stemming from the january 6th insurrection. 19 of those sentences were harsher than penalties requested by the Justice Department. The Protective Order Proposal Shelby considering would limit the Trial Information that donald trump and his attorneys could share publicly. That deadline is tomorrow at five pm. The clock is ticking, okay . Now, in case you think this is just a bunch of legally or some boring administrative move, i want you to consider the past week. This morning, trump insisted judge chutkan knows she is, quote, incapable of giving him a fair trial, called the Special Counsel deranged. Hes continued to lie about the results of the 2020 election and friday, threatened, in a truth social post, cited in the governments protective order, request, quote, if you go after me, im coming after you. Soon, donald trump and his legal team will have access to materials the prosecution intends to use in court. These are materials that will include personally identifying information, materials from government entities, steeled search warrants, grand jury subpoena returns, and even more. These would be interested to a man who is already been indicted for playing too fast and way too loose with our nations top secret documents. A man who once broadcast the personal phone number of a sitting United States senator who criticize him. Under the Special Counsels proposal, donald trump can request to modify the protective order anytime. Trumps lawyer, john lauro, hes painting this protective order as a Justice Department effort to conceal facts of the case from the american people. I am shocked that all the news Media Outlets arent protesting what the government is trying to do. They are trying to say that we have discovery that is not sensitive, but we dont want the press to hear about it. And mr. Trump, our team is saying, President Trump is saying that if there is evidence out there that the government has that is exculpatory or informative, then the press has a right to know. All of a sudden, donald trump and his attorneys are the champions of the free press. Okay. Yall, the Justice Department is arguing that the lack of a protective order could have a harmful Chilling Effect on witnesses or adversely affect their administration of justice in this particular case. Now, comments fired off on a former president Social Media Platform that could influence potential jurors. They could stoke threats and violence against witnesses. And they could further undermine accountability. As well as the public faith in the rule of law altogether. Now, before his twitter exodus in 2021, donald trump tweeted the phrase, Law And Order nearly 30 times. He invoked the slogan in his rallies, in his campaign materials, and on the social media. When it comes to Law And Order, that applies to him, oh, well a former president seems to prefer chaos. I want to bring in msnbc contributor, katie benner. She covers the Justice Department for the New York Times. She is an award winner, yall. Carolinas also here, former federal prosecutor and current and residency legal analyst, and independent journalist george teeny. Hes been subpoenaed in the grand jury investigation, led by fani willis, the district attorney, in Fulton County, georgia. Thank you all for being here. Carol, this exchange between trump attorney john lauro and my colleague, chuck todd that happened this morning on Meet The Press about what trump asked mike pence to do on january 6th, i want you to listen to this because i found this very striking. He said, the president asked him to violate the constitution, is another way of saying, he had he never said, no, that is wrong. That is wrong. A Technical Violation Of The Constitution is not a violation of criminal law. That is just plain wrong and to say that is contrary to decades of legal statutes. A Technical Violation Of The Constitution is not a violation of criminal law . I need help, carol. Technical . Well, i dont think that john lauro was really prepared for that question and he didnt really know quite how to answer it. I mean, there are criminal statutes, but if you dont follow the constitution and that is demonstrated and proved in a trial, that is a problem for, especially the former president. And so, or one who actually did these actions while he was president. So, no, there is no real substance to that statement,. But it does show you that whole exchange shows you the difference between trying a case in Criminal Court and trying a case in the media, which is what john lauro is trying to do right now. And, okay, you know, judge chutkan, she denied the trump teams request for more time to respond to the protective order that i laid out. Im wondering if you could just, carol, very quickly, walk us through what we can expect to happen by five pm on monday. What are we looking for . Right, whats happened here is that the prosecution, the government, jack smith, made a motion for a protective order. That is to say, when discovery or evidence is turned over to the defense by the prosecution, hes asking that they be prohibited from making that public, disclosing it publicly for lots of reasons, which you earlier articulated, including chilling witnesses from testifying and other Fair Administration of justice reasons. Now, protective orders are par for the course. They happen in many, many cases, both criminal and civil. And what the Justice Department said is, weve been trying to negotiate with them. The scope of the protective order. We cant come to an agreement, so this is what we are asking for. The judge gave them until monday, they gave trump until monday, to answer the department of justices motion for a protective order and john laurel has come forward and said, we need more time. He really does not need more time. This is not a complicated issue. This is not an issue that taken by surprise, as i said. It happens in almost every case. Again, i think what we are seeing is what we are going to see going forward. Its going to be an effort by the defense to delay the trial, delay the proceedings, and an effort by the prosecution to move it as quickly as possible. You know, katie, you cover the Justice Department. You know, i think, these issues very well, you know the players. I am wondering what maybe folks are saying privately about the fact that Donald Trumps legal team is saying, they need more time for all of these things. Delay tactics, that judge chutkan has now denied, but also they preemptively said, you know, they are going to need more time before trial here happens. Yet, trumps lawyer, john lauro, time to go on Meet The Press. Hes been on every other Major Network this weekend doing the full this morning. Hes been on fox, hes been on cnn earlier in the week. What are folks in the Justice Department feeling about the fact that they are actively kind of laying their case out on television, but saying they need more time in court . I think that inside of the Justice Department really surprised by this and at the end of the day, really is up to the judge and what the judge does with everybodys briefing materials. So, the Justice Department feels that its put out a strong argument why, for example, you know, Donald Trumps team needs to agree to the terms of protective order or have the judge assigned those terms. Theyre hopeful that theyre going to have a judge who will keep to a schedule, want to move the case forward, and, you know, whether or not theyre not going to probably argue about whether or not some of these lawyers on television. That is sort of beyond the scope of whether what theyre arguing on court or what they might care about. But only something thats noticed by them and notice by the judge as well. At the end of the day, though, they feel that their job is to make their best case in court and in their legal filings, and see what happens. Okay, what about Donald Trumps posing on his social media site about mike pence, about jack smith, even about judge chutkan and specifically this if you go after me, i will come after you post. The prosecution cited it in the protective order requests. You know, do you think this was a move by jack smiths team thats kind of the first warning to donald trump that you just cant say what he wants . Obviously, you know, the Justice Department has said, they will speak to their court filings. Certainly, the Justice Department wants trumps team and the judge to know that they have noticed these postings and theyve noticed what donald trump is saying in public. What we are going to see happen now are sort of two things. One, on a political front, already some of these comments are people contradicting what hes saying. So, mike pence came out and he in fact, the world should know that donald trump is asking me to put him over the constitution in my oath that is the fact of what happened. So, the sort of Public Opinion war that donald trump is waging, there are other players who will probably come out and say that he is wrong, and then when it comes to whats happening in court, if donald trump does Something Like say, violate protective order, not only by releasing information the Justice Department specifically calls out things like the names of witnesses, grand jury materials, et cetera. If he starts to put out, for example, the names of witnesses in an attempt to smear them or get his supporters to attack them, you know, he could be held in contempt. Now, usually what you might see is a warning. But if he continues to do it, he could be fined, he could be put in jail. What we know judge chutkan is that she wants this to go fairly, she wants this to go smoothly, and shes probably not going to put up with things like threats to witnesses. You know, george, let me bring you in here and i just dont know if yall caught my show yesterday, but my theory is the case here is that this is, the Justice Department has brought a case here that is about conduct, not about free speech. And i know that, you know, donald trump and his lawyers want to talk about free speech, but the indictment, very clearly, black and, white lays out this is about conduct. I want to talk about these charges of the fraudulent slates of electors, george. Can you just give us a bit more insight into what the Special Counsels alleging here . Based on what you witnessed in georgia, yourself, on the 2020, when the fake electors actually met . So, i think the question here is whether or not donald trump was acting in concert with others. And to what degree, it wasnt just Donald Trumps misconduct that we are looking at, but we are looking at the misconduct of dozens of people in many different states. In georgia, there is a question about whether or not fake electors had met at the behest of his campaign, in order to sow confusion in the process that they had hoped mike pence would take advantage of. Like, we live in a very strange moment in history, and i think that that requires a lot of judicial oversight. George, you are an interesting person here because while were focused on this process in washington, d. C. , and the federal governments case, the department of justice, there is something happening in georgia. We are all standing by to see what fani willis does. You actually were on call to appear before both of fani williss grand jury sometime between august 7th and august 31st. What can you tell us, if anything, about the timing of your potential appearance or even some potential charges against trump in Fulton County . Lets start with this. I would like to be less interesting right now. I would like to be a journalist who writes things and people read them, and then maybe they act on them. Im a talking baked potato whos out of his depth in a lot of ways, when it comes to, you know, having to be a witness in front of a court. Journalists should not be appearing in court, in front of grand juries. I think that creates, like, a very serious problem, in terms of its potential for abuse. And i would not be here if it was for anything other than that. That said, you know, its a job. This is a moment. I think we all have a responsibility to democracy, to act in its interest. I agree. I agree, george. We have more to discuss, so the three of yall are going to stick around because there is a lot to unpack here. Including what it means that jack smith charged trump with that fourth count, conspiracy against the right to vote and to have ones vote counted. We are also going to get into how racism and the kkk are a big reason that the statute is on the books today. We are also going to unpack the very big question, should the trial of donald trump be televised . All that is coming up next right here on simone. Right here on simone. Because tmobile helps pano ai innovate, so they can stop the spread of wildfires. Nows the time to see what americas largest 5g network can do for your business. Want a smarter way to mop . Introducing the new swiffer powermop. An allinone Cleaning Tool with hundreds of Scrubbing Strips that absorb and lock dirt away, for a mop and bucket clean in half the time. Mop smarter with the new swiffer powermop. As someone living with Type 2 Diabetes, i want to keep it real and talk about some risks. 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