He never said and no, that is wrong. That is wrong. A Technical Violation Of The Constitution is not a violation of criminal law. Later on this hour, im going to speak with congresswoman Elaine Elmore about trumps indictment, efforts by her house aop but i will talk to former Ohio Republican governor John Case Ick about the struggle trumps liables are having in taking on the front runner directly, including the just mentioned mike pence. You can say right here that you will rule out voting for donald trump again for president . I will tell you, i dont think we will have to make that decision. But you do. Im confident i will be able to support the republican omni, especially if it is me. We are also keeping an eye on that major flooding in juneau, alaska, that has produced scenes like this one. And then a story of triumph. Simone biles returning to competition in a very big way. That story is coming up later on this hour as. Well we begin, though, with an Election Interference Case against former president , trumps legal team has until 5 pm tomorrow to respond to a request for a protective order filed across after a judge Last Night Rig rejected a request for an extension by the former president s attorneys, and as Trump Lawyers took his case to The Sunday Show to say that from former president continues to make his own arguments publicly in his signature style we and an appearance in South Carolina last. Night we and we sees Julie Circuit isnt colombia, South Carolina with the very latest. Also joining the, nbc legal analyst renal Defense AttorneyDanny Cevallos as well. Julie, let me start with you on this one. Do we know it all how the trump team is planning to respond . Does there seem to be any plans by the former president to cool down the rhetoric . Lets start with the first part of your question. We heard with the former president s lawyer all day long today essentially defending his client, of course, about saying he did nothing wrong as, well saying this is all politically motivated, he did not break any laws, even if a constitutional violation was question will. There they certainly plan to keep pushing back, especially as we got this protective order request. You mentioned some of that. Of course, this comes after the former president used his truth social platform to win special counsel jack smiths word try to threaten or intimidate witnesses that could be involved in the case against him, in the 2020 election interference probe. By the, way that when the former president was just a rain, don i know you were out there on thursday, less than 24 hours later, he hit those backtoback rallies in alabama, South Carolina, talking to crowds of supporters who really just ate every single thing he said completely up. Here is what he said yesterday, he asked to cool his rhetoric, this was after that protective order came down. Heres what he had to say in comparing himself to president biden, saying hes beating the current president in the polls, which i should note is not true. They are actually neck and neck. Watch. If i wasnt, if i wasnt, we wouldnt be under investigation by deranged jack smith. He is a deranged human being. Take a look at that face, you say that guy is a sick man. There is something wrong with him. Of course hes talking about jack smith there. He is saying hes beating biden in the polls, which is the only reason hes going after him. Obviously, the president very careful to point a separate special counsel. He is not talking about this investigation, he isnt even talking about the documents case as well. The former president s 2nd federal indictment, but all this comes down to the former president and what he wants to hear. He also took shots of the former Vice President and his running mate, mike pence, posting on truth social as well again, calling him delusional. Pants of course a critical witness in this election interference probe, his contemporaneous notes leading jack smith to producing some of that evidence that they will begin to hopefully share with the trump Team Starting tomorrow night. Julie circuit for us. We appreciate it, julie. Thank you. Lets talk through some more of this stuff. I want to turn first and foremost to this media blitz weve been seeing with jon mauro specifically, the defense as weve been seeing that he is mounting, this trial gets up and going. First and foremost, this criminal intent and the fact the former president actually believed that the election had been stolen from him. And on top of that, relying on the advice of his counsel. I want to play a part of what we heard from laura today and then we will talk. In order to have a violation of law, you have to have criminal intent. In this case, corrupt intent, and what that means is you have to have some desire to do something unlawful. If your attorney is telling you that you have a right to Petition Congress, and then that completely eliminates any criminal intent. The 2 things i think, of danny, you know im not a lawyer, i always say this, the desire to do something unlawful, the conversation he had with the former president Vice President of the United States when he said you are too honest, so its likely he knew in his mind he was doing something that was dishonest, i. E. Unlawful. And then relying on the advice of your council. Which council is he talking about . The attorney general, the assistant attorney general, the odion i White House Council as well, all told him he lost this election. I dont like the advice of counsel defense for a few different reasons. The first of which is it is too focused. If you deploy advice of counsel, and then you are giving up privilege and in addition you may have to take the stand to testify this is what my counsel told me and why i believed it. I think the more prudent approach is to back out and really call this more of a generally people telling me counselor not council that this is something i could do. I know it sounds strange now. Does it matter who these people are . Doesnt it matter who these people are . Who are we talking about . Conspiracy theorists . Thats what they point out, right . That someone said to him at one point, no, sir, there was not over 10,000 votes cast by people who had died. There were 12. Right, so for example the indictment lists that senior members of d. O. T. Told him there was nothing nefarious about the election. And that is significant to. Me but it also lists Vice President mike pence told him that. That is less significant to me. You also mentioned that, for example, people like johnny smith may have been discredited. At the same time, he was an employee constitutional scholar at the time. I get now that these are people who are considered cracked pots, thats not my, where that is former Vice President mike pences word. And hes probably right. But at least at the time, could trump have relied on what they were saying so that he didnt form the Requisite Intent . There is quite a showing the government has to make of intent. If you are someone reading the indictment and you say, for example, if it is true donald trump called sydney powell crazy, does that mean he shouldve disbelieved everything she said . I think there are a lot of reasonable minds that will say yes. A member of a jury might, say that is not quite enough for me. While i think the government has gone a long way, i dont think their intent evidence in the indictment is airtight yet. Okay, but why does intent really even matter if he was looking to break the law . If you were doing incentives everything. It is everything and intent goes to whether his purpose was to break the law. And away, this is intent, it is more about corrupt purpose in a sense. But if you say i think laura brought this up a couple days ago, if you brought if you say bank stole my money, if you believe a banks all your money, it doesnt mean you are than justified to go break into that bank and steal your money back. Thats a good analogy. Here is one i think maybe a little closer. If, for example, it is the case that donald trump believed he had lost and still made efforts to overturn the election, that might meet that level of intent. But if instead the Envy Evidence shows that he believed democrats had stolen the election and he doesnt even need that reason to believe, it its not a reasonable if the statute appears to require what he actually thought, the statutes, what im saying is i think the government has enough and i am sure they have more than is in the indictment. But intent, in this case, is everything. And we cant really poohpooh the idea that there is zero chance donald trump would be able to mount a defense based on intent. What you are saying is a great you are a great Defense Attorney. Burrow as well as delaying, in canada lenient, one of our correspondents on this air, he wrote this piece about some of the defenses that could be mounted by the former president s defense team. Coming up with this theory that in fact a would require trump to testify if in fact he did believe this election was stolen. Do you think that is a bad idea . The first 2 on that list, if we put it right back, up free speech relied on the advice of counsel. We talked about. Those free speech i dont think is as compelling as people are making it out to be. Free speech has never been an absolute right to commit crimes. While there is Supreme Court precedent that says it is legal to lie, i think this free speech argument is kind of a red herring. All roads, ultimately, lead to intent. That is the only thing that is the burden of proof for the government, really on all of the charges. Yeah, free speech is interesting, you do have a right to Petition Congress for redress, but it all comes back to his intent and what trump believed. For that reason, the government has the burden, not just any burden, beyond a reasonable doubt, as to his intent and purpose. I think that is what they are going to seize on. Whether they package it as advice of counsel or whether he reasonably believed or actually believed, its all the same. When you put donald trump on the stand . No, never. I would never put him on the stand. But heres the thing, the client has an absolute constitutional right to take the stand. The Rule Of Thumb is you dont put your client on the stand unless he has evidence that you just cant get from anywhere else. And you may be able to get evidence about what trump thought from other sources, just as the government has been able to get evidence that they will introduce about what was in trumps mind from other people than trump. I hear that baby coffin that background. I heard a child cough in the background. You are living my, life i know. Viewers dont know, Danny Cevallos, my kids are sitting right off camera as well. I, know mine are Danny Cevallos, my friend, as always, thank you. Coming up in just 60 seconds, former President Trumps rivals are framing the latest indictment from the former vp, mike pence, straddling the fence to former governor as a warning to dopey voters. This is a preview of the election coming up if donald trump is the nominee. He will be talking about donald trump rather than joe biden, and what we should be focused on is talking about joe biden and his record. Thats why he cannot be the nominee. I see irritated gums and weak enamel. Sensodyne Sensitivity Gum enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. Im a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. Meet the team. Behind the team. The coach. The manager. And the snack dad. All using chase to keep up with their finances. The coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. Anddd check this out. The manager deposited a check. Magic. And the snack dad . Hes getting paid back. Orange slicesss. Because this team all has chase. Smart bankers. Convenient tools. One bank with the power of both. Chase. Make more of whats yours. vo Verizon Small Business days are coming. Chase. From august 7th to the 13th. Now is the time to partner with our experts. Get started today with verizon business. Its your business. Its your verizon. The former president is continuing to hold a significant lead over his republican challengers for the partys nomination, despite being handed three indictments in the possibility of a fourth to come. Trump is still well out in front of his closest challenger, Florida Governor ron desantis, according to the latest poll numbers out of iowa. Trumps rivals have been notably reluctant to say the least, to speak out against the former president. But it looks like that could be starting to change. Could, the key word here. With this latest indictment, bringing out some harsh words that we have been hearing so far. President trump was wrong. He was wrong then, hes wrong now. I had no right to overturn the election. I ideologically consistent about donald trump since 2015. I thought hes been a National Security threat to the country and was incapable of growing our brand. I want Republican Voters to know, this is a preview of the election coming up, if donald trump is the nominee. He will be talking about donald trump rather than joe biden. And what we should be focused on is talking about joe biden and his record, and that is why he cannot be the nominee. All right, we want to bring in now for the former Ohio Governor msnbc political analyst, john kasich. Thank you, sir, for joining us on this. Appreciate it. Let me kind of get your overall reaction, first, so what weve been hearing from members of your party, in reaction to, of course, the latest indictment of the former president of the United States, and what could be in the pipeline, of course, an indictment coming out of fulton county. Well, first of all jasmine, i just want to make clear, im an american before im a republican. You know, the republican party, a lot of these guys and ladies have been just too quiet. And what they are playing with here, i dont happen to agree with them, is they are trying to figure out how to thread the needle. How do i capture the never trumpers at the same time, i get those people who sort of, they are for trump, but they really dont like him. How do i get them to join the never trumpers, to have a sizable enough number of voters where, you know, maybe i can figure out a way to thread that needle . I dont agree with them. I mean, its pretty clear what the guy has done here, particularly the last charge, in terms of his efforts to, i mean, look, there are all charges, right . We want the process to go forward. But its very serious charges about trying to stop the transfer of power. That is what has to be litigated and i think they should be very clear about that. So, my question is, we just played some sound here, obviously, of folks in a bit more vocally trump, youve been one of them, but also a former new jersey governor, chris christie, now it seems, as former Vice President stepping up to the plate as well, considering, it seems, his involvement and the notes that he gave over to the special counsel, as well. But amidst all of that, why isnt there more unified front amongst the republican party, right . Looking at this primary race of challengers, why isnt there a movement to consolidate power and understand maybe if they do, they could actually beat the former president of the United States in this primary race . Or are they too scared of the trump base . I mean, consolidate behind one candidate, is that what youre saying . Possibly. Its sort of like or even messaging wise. Anybody but, right . Well, everybody has their own views, number one. Number two, when people say, well, they all ought to get out, who ought to get out . I mean, if youre running for president , youre running for president because you think youre the best person. So, why All Of A Sudden would you say, okay, im just going to quit . Anymore than somebody comes in, a few to give up your time slot. What . I dont want to do that. They believe, they believe in what they are doing and so to, ask them to drop out when they think they are on a mission to help improve the country is not realistic. Now, jasmine, there is something a read today that i thought was very, very interesting. There is pulling that begins to indicate that this message that somehow the republicans got onto and virtually all of them about being anti woke is not working. I have been suggesting, on the air now for months, that this message does not connect with people, its a sliver of people that you are affecting, and people are more concerned about other issues, you know . The economy, crime in the cities, you know . And so, i saw that desantis is now starting to say, well, let me talk about the economy, let me talk about how we would govern. And i think its really good for the republicans to figure out how to get off the anti woke message and begin to appeal to people on things they care about. That, combined with the notion of trying to join the never trumpers, along with the weak biden people, you know, that might be the route that can get you there. But look, 80 , 83 of the republican members of the party think that these charges are not very serious against trump. Now, that might change, but right now they dont even believe what are in the charging documents. Not only do they not believe theyre not serious, they dont even believe what are in the charging documents. I mean, they dont read them because they dont believe a word that the special counse