justice department is taking this language from defended trump very seriously. the special counsel team cited trump's truth social post in an immediate and pressing requests for the judge to impose a protective order to prevent the former president from making public any sensitive information turned over by the prosecutors. from that request quote, such a restriction is particularly important in this case, because the defendant has previously issued public statements on social media regarding witnesses, judges, attorneys, and others associated with legal matters pending against him. end quote. in response, trump's spokesperson put out a statement, claiming the post is quote, the definition of political speech. end quote. the implication that it is protected by the first amendment. the protective order that the quote is seeking, is in reference to trump's scheme to interfere with the 2020 election and that desperate temps to cling to power during the final weeks of his presidency. it's a case that is, perhaps, the most resident too many americans, because millions of people watch the events of january six unfold in realtime, and understand the violence of january six was an extension of trump's reckless lies. this indictment validates that and goes even further, laying out evidence that the efforts behind the scenes by trump and his coconspirators were worse than we thought. despite the foolish public spectacles put on by trump's so-called elite strikeforce team in the weeks after the election, there was actually seriously they were discussing ways to keep donald trump in place as president. and the indictment makes a strong and clear case that trump knew this effort was bogus and eat legal. you lost dozens of lawsuits challenging the legitimacy of the election results in multiple states, but he persisted in pushing lies about the election, lies he knew to be lies. its claims of a stolen election were also disputed by senior advisers, white house counsel, governor, secretary of state,, and other election administration officials. including his own cybersecurity expert, whom trump fired days after that experts proclaimed that the 2020 election was quote, the most secure and american history. and quote. in the words of one senior advisory, quote, it's all just conspiracy stuff being down from the membership. end quote. of the coup attempt went far beyond trump's disregard for facts. one trump advisor warns that the scheme would lead to riots, quote, coconspirator two confirmed, now to be the lawyer, john eastman, responded that there had been previously points in the nation's history where violence was necessary to protect the republic. end quote. when similar concerns were raised with coconspirator for, who is believed to be former department of justice official jeffrey clark, he responded, quote, well, that's why there's an insurrection act. that is a not to the idea the president could mobilize the military against american people in order to quash riots. the indictment even lays out how trump was prepared to oust the acting attorney general and install this man, jeffrey clark, who was willing and ready to carry out trump's bidding and use the office and the powers of the attorney general to advance the fake electors scheme. some coups that have actually succeeded elsewhere in the world were not this well planned. or sophisticated. donald trump and his coconspirators were one small step away from actually stealing the election and undermining democracy. while donald trump's scheme ultimately failed back in january 2021, he remains unapologetic, unrepentant, and he continues to undermine democracy. over the past two and a half years, he has proven he has prepared to do it all again, if given the chance. last december, he even went as far as to call for quote, the determination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the constitution. even those found in the constitution. words out of the mouth of the man who was the president of the united states, who is now the front runner for the republican nomination for the presidency of the united states. he has since been on a campaign of retribution, regularly claiming at his campaign rallies the federal government has been weaponized against him, claiming quote, they want to take away my freedom because i will never let them take away your freedom. they want to silence me because i will never let them silence you. and in the end, they're not after, me there after you, and i'm just standing in their way. end quote. or, in more blunt terms, if you go after me, i'm coming after you. joining me now is jennifer reuben. she is an opinion writer for the washington post, and msnbc political analyst, the host of the podcast, jen reuben screen room, and author of resistance, how women save democracy from donald trump with us as well. ruth ben-ghiat, a professor of history and wagyu, author of lucid, a newsletter about threats to democracy through our not subscribing through it, you must. she's the author of a very important book, strong men, from mussolini to the president. good morning to both of you. jen, in response to the special counsel's filing last night, i want to remind you you are trained as a lawyer, donald trump's campaign says his truth social post is quote, the definition of political speech. now, on the surface, a quote that says if you go after me, i'm coming after you,, gusher, that's political speech. but this is not in a vacuum. from a legal standpoint, tell me what you think of this? this is a guy who had just been a rain, to constantly says this is a witch hunts, he goes after the administration, he goes after judges, he goes after lawyers, and the judge magistrate told him the other day, don't threaten anybody. don't intimidate anybody. don't intimidate anyone. we don't know what his post means. what do you think it means? >> well, i think this is what donald trump believes. he has always been around threats of violence, he has always incited his crowd. so, i think he is in a poor position to argue free speech in this case. because he is not in the standing of a normal individual. and individual who is out there campaigning. he is free on bail. he is not being incarcerated under certain conditions. and those conditions are, he doesn't do things like this. so, we are going to have to see whether the magistrate or the judge, more likely, decides to impose a protective order, what kind of protective order, that is, and or tap and when he violates it? when you issue a protective order, you have to be willing to stand behind it, and there has to be some willing this to, i don't know, incarcerate him? demands other bond protections? so, this is typical trump. people push and push and go over the line, and then run back and playing the same protections that everyone does in a democracy. it's typical trump bluster, bluff, threatening, violence. >> ruth, kevin mccarthy had an interesting statement. he said it is everybody's right to contest an election, and hillary clinton did that and l courted that and stacey abrams did that, and none of them got arrested for it. but al gore, the case went to the supreme court, and the minute it was decided by the supreme court, hillary he conceded. hillary clinton, people forget, concede at the next day. stacey abrams fought it, and had recounts, and she lost. then, she conceded. but the indictment itself states very clearly, donald trump has every right to recounts, appeals, audits, all that kind of stuff. all of that happened, and he still lost. then, he created a scheme to overturn the election. they are not the same thing. >> no. and none of those -- instigated a violent coup to stay in office. illegally. what's interesting about the indictment is it's actually, it lays out elements of the authoritarian playbook that reviews from november onward. you have propaganda. his great effectiveness at convincing tens of millions of people. he's won the election. you have the rule of elite enabler's. we've talked before, ali, that for every person fashing heads that we see, that we saw in the capital, there's another person in an expensive suit or a uniform in a coup who is directing the action. then, you have the recourse to violence. and you know, we are reminded the plans to use the military and, of course, the new playbook also used by bolsonaro, if you can't get the military to play, you have your civilian army of thugs. that does it. so, it's very different than what anyone else has done in american history. >> and i really hope that message resonates. it's just not the same thing. you cannot bring alcorn and hillary clinton and stacey abrams into this to compare it. let's talk about the indictment, jen. in an op-ed for the washington post about this latest indictment, you wrote, quote, smith did not clutter overcharged, nor cluttered the indictment with repetitive charges. he appears intent on keeping the case relatively simple. simple does not mean unserious, however. choosing not to bring that icy charge of sedition or conspiracy to commit sedition, smith nevertheless captures the enormity of the crime, the assault on our democracy. end quote. i want to have you just talk about that a little bit, we have both seen, in our time covering these things, cases that are robust but too complicated. they fall apart in the details. this thing is repetitive, but it does say what donald trump did. but knowing lies that he undertook to undermine democracy. >> exactly. and he doesn't do something that frankly, i think the january six committee tried to do. and it might be possible, but would lead to many more complications and difficulties improve. also, the first amendment. he is not accused, in this indictment, of instigating the violence. with jack smith writes is that he opportunistically used the violence. now, you and i and ruth could make the argument, of course he instigated it, in common parlance, that is what he was trying to do. that's what he was hoping to do. but as a legal matter, smith doesn't go there. he doesn't go there for a couple of reasons. one, he has to make these charges stick beyond a reasonable doubt, and he can't make that connection. he will lose, and he will lose credibility with the jury. second is, and that's when you see him already, trump, as soon as he is accused of threatening, of inciting, claims first amendment. i've got a first amendment right to do this. frankly, there's a lot of legal analysis that whatever he said on the ellipse this it's not covered by the first amendment. but it becomes an issue. if there is a whole line of cases beginning with the brandenburg case, that basically says you have to really prove that someone is in that moment, instigating immediate violence in order to lose the first amendment protection. jack smith doesn't go that route. he says there's plenty of other evidence, and what we are showing is a very detailed plot well before january six involving the vice president, involving the justice department, involving these state officials, and violence trump very opportunistically used, of course, incited that -- one mike pence was in danger, and he also did nothing. he sat back in the oval office, waiting for the crowd to do its business. but it's a very carefully, very cleverly drawn indictment that is meant to get to trial quickly and have the best possible chance of success. >> ruth, on tuesday night, read this indictment into a podcast. it's an hour and a half long. it's 45 pages, 42 of them are count one, and then counts two, three, and four, our one page each. count four is actually just two paragraphs, and i actually thought of me while i was reading this into the microphone. it says, paragraph 130 in the case. it says, from honor about november 14th, 2020, honor about january, 2021, in the district of columbia and elsewhere, the defendant, donald j trump, did knowingly combine, conspire, and confederate and agree with coconspirators, known and unknown to the grand jury, to injure a press, threaten and intimidate one or more persons in the free exercise and enjoyment of eight right and privileged secure to them by the constitution and loss of the united states. that is, the right to vote and to have one's vote counted. those are the final words in this entire indictment. the right to vote in the point you always make to me, that the right to vote is not the only thing that matters and democracy. the right to have one's vote count it. and donald trump, jack smith alleges, undermined that. that is the meat of this thing. >> yeah, absolutely. is very moving. i was very moved when i read that, and even now, also because if we didn't live in a democracy, this could never happen. this indictments. and i also want to make a point about trump's you know, threats. if you come after me, i'll come after you. this is not just to the judge or the judiciary. this is a threat to other republicans who are running for office or anybody who might try to take him down, because he is at his most desperate now. that arraignment, you know, he could've done it on zoom. he needed to have the spectacle, the trump for son and that look presidential. but it was a humiliation. authoritarian personalities do not respond well to this, especially when it was, as you say, an entire you know, scheme to defraud not just the government, but to defraud ordinary americans from having a voice. >> thank you to both of you. there's a lot more to talk about here, into fortunately, of ottoman are today for us. jennifer reuben is an opinion writer for the washington post, the host of gentleman's green room podcast, and an msnbc political analyst. she's also the author of resistance, how women save democracy from donald trump. ruth ben-ghiat it's a professor of history and like you and the author of strongmen, from mussolini to the precedence. and as jack smith said, it's vitally important that we all read the second indictment against donald trump. of course, we may not have a time to literally read it. it takes about an hour and a half, but i have read it, and i've now made it available as a special podcast, msnbc's prosecuting donald trump podcast. you can scan these q r code on the corner of your screen if you want to listen that were after the show. hounding up next, a glossary of coconspirators. we've decoded the identities of most of the six people represented by coconspirator numbers in the indictment. i'm going to tell you who they are to be and what they are accused of doing. plus, like yesterday, it judge in texas issued a temporary exception to the states abortion ban. that will, for, now allow abortions for women with certain pregnancy complications and medical emergencies. this comes after three texas women who assumed the state, about having their own lifesaving care dangerously delayed by texas's draconian abortion ban. coming, up all talk to robbyn marty, part of another lawsuit in another state with dystopian level antiabortion laws on the books. marquee isn't on those doing the state of alabama for the freedom to talk about abortion, to be able to tell patients how to access legal abortion. outside the state of alabama. alabama i'm your overly competitive brother. check. psych! and i'm about to steal this game from you just like i stole kelly carter in high school. you got no game dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. game over. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well, you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, yeah, like me. thanks, bro. take a lap, rookie. real mature. at pnc bank, you can find us in big cities and small towns across the us, where our focus is to always support the people who live and work there. because you call these communities home, and we do too. pnc bank. oh stuffed up again? so 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that he elicited the health of six coconspirators to quote, assist him in his criminal efforts to overturn the legitimate results of the 2020 presidential election and retain power. these coconspirators are an indicted. they have not been charged, nor were they named to the indictment but throughout the document, there are details about each coconspirator that could be matched with publicly available information we already do have. so, we've got a pretty good idea of who, at least, five of them. our conspirators one is described in the indictment as quote, an attorney who was willing to spread knowingly false claims and pursue strategies that the defendants 2020 reelection campaign attorneys would not. based on a lot of specific detail in the indictment, he is believed to be trump's former personal attorney, rudy giuliani. we all saw the cable tv appearance of the press conference involved landscaping businesses and leaking hair dye, in which giuliani shamelessly pushed false claims. about election fraud. in addition to that, the indictments estes coconspirator, along with trump, followed rusty bowers, the former speaker of the arizona house, to ask him to quote, you still legislature to circumvent the process. and use fake electors to flip arizona for trump. when bowers asked for proof of illegal votes in his state, the indictment alleges that coconspirator number one responded by saying quote, we don't have the evidence. but we have a lot of theories. in his testimony to the house january six committee, bowers recounted that conversation and he named rudy giuliani, specifically. then, there's coconspirator to. the strived in the indictment as quote, an attorney who devised and attempted to overhaul a strategy to lower the vice president ceremonial role overseeing the proceeding to obstruct the certification of the presidential election. coconspirator too is believed to be john eastman. a conservative attorney who on january 5th, 2021, incorrectly suggested in a memo to then vice president mike pence, that's pence had the constitutional authority to block the certification of the electoral votes. we know that pence, with the legal advice from former judge michael luttig, refused to block the certification of the votes. the indictment described coconspirator three as quote, and attorney who's unfounded claims of election fraud, the defendant privately acknowledged to others, sounded crazy. nevertheless, the defendant embraced him publicly and five coconspirator three's disinformation. this is believed to be the former federal prosecutor, sydney powell. pebble publicly pushed baseless claims that trump voting machines had been hacked to rig the election for joe biden. she also filed several lawsuits claiming election fraud. then, there's coconspirator number four. described in the indictment as quote, a justice department official who worked on civil matters and who, with the defendant, attempted to use the justice department to open sham election crime investigations and influenced fake legislatures with knowingly false claims of election fraud. this is very likely jeffrey clark, who was a mid level trump appointed lawyer within the justice department. and just weeks before the 2020 election, clark was named the acting head of the civil division. clark back to trump's views on the election, so much so that trump considered installing clark as acting attorney general to do his bidding. the indictment illustrates how clark tried to use the doj to overturn the election. the indictment alleges that coconspirator forward, secretly met with trump several times before january six, and that he quote, tried to coerce the attacking attorney general and acting deputy attorney general decide a draft letter to georgia and other states falsely claiming that the justice department had quote, identified significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome of the election in multiple states. okay, so, let's move on to coconspirator. five listed in the indictment says quote, an attorney who assisted in devising and attempting to implement a plan to submit fraudulent claims of fraud presidential elections to obstruct the proceeding. this is believed to be kenneth chesebro, and apolitically. according to the indictment, this coconspirator was the first to suggest that fake electors could be used to reelect trump. the indictment includes emails from an unnamed attorney, which explained coconspirator five's plan to have electors send in their votes, quote even though the votes aren't legal. it continues kind of wild, creative, would be just sending in fake electoral votes to pence, so someone in congress could make an objection when they start counting votes against or arguing that the fake votes should be counted. finally, there's coconspirator number six, referenced in the indictment. it's quote, a political consultant who helped implement a plan to submit fraudulent slates of presidential electors to obstruct the certification proceeding. though nbc has not confirmed the identity of coconspirator number six, the indictment lists thisindividual as having a hand in the plot to submit fake electors among other schemes to overturn the 2020 election. so, those are trump's six coconspirators and what they are accused of doing. according to jack smith's federal indictment. i hope that figure some stuff up. we'll be right back. l be right back. o came to new york from puerto rico when he was 17. with ancestry, being able to put the pieces of the puzzle together... ...it's amazing. it's honestly amazing. meet the team... behind the team. the coach. the manager. and the snack dad. all using chase to keep up with their finances. the coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. anddd check this out... the manager deposited a check. magic. and the snack dad? he's getting paid back. orange slicesss. because this team all has chase. smart bankers. convenient tools. one bank with the 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(vo) subaru is the national park foundation's largest corporate donor, helping expand access for all. >> it is hard to find a place where the reality of postal america is more dangerous and punishing for women than alabama. i visited the state last year in the weeks after roe v. wade was overturned, not only was abortion immediately banned in alabama, but the antiabortion laws and the state officials to enforce them were so draconian and deliberately vague but health care professionals were not even sure it was safe to talk about abortion. i want to play you a piece of an interview i conducted in august of last year with robbyn marty, the operations director of the west alabama women center. by then, but west elleby among women's center was no longer providing abortions, but robin and the rest of the staff were dedicated to keeping the doors open and providing that legally limited but important health and health care they were legally allowed to offer. >> i walk in here and i see you and you're wearing a shirt that's as medication abortion is extremely safe and effective. >> yes. >> and i say, can i get some? >> no. i can't say anything. if i were a regular person, i would say something like eight person can go to aid access dot org and obtain medication abortion without needing a prescription and have that shipped to them, regardless of whether it is a legal state or an illegal state, but that person is running a lot of risk of surveillance, and she would be very careful. that would be something i could say if i were a regular person. i am not a regular person. so, i can't say that to our patient. i cannot say that to anyone. honestly, wearing the shirt is a risk, and i do it on purpose, because i know that this is one way to make a conversation happen, and make people think about this. but i can't provide that information that i just provided to you. everybody else can. >> so, that's what it's been like for health care providers in alabama since the fall of roe. now, after living and working and fighting and surviving in the atmosphere for more than a year, robin marti, along with a doctor from alabama, from another alabama clinic, are suing to fight this restriction. to protect alabamians to provide information about legal, out of state abortions. robbyn joins me now. she operations director at the west alabama women's center and the author of the new handbook for a post-roe america. robin, my friend, it's good to see you again. thank you for being with us. i was confused then and confuse that, right? i've got my pocket constitution with me. i know that first amendment. i didn't understand how it was possible that you giving somewhat advice about how they might get something or frankly, giving people advice who can't get an abortion in alabama, about what state they can go to and who to call, i couldn't understand how that could be used as a threat. but it really has been used as a threat against people like you and doctors and author who help women with abortions. >> it really has and honestly, i knew you were going to play that clip. watching it again now, now that we have filed our lawsuit, on its own terrifies me because that makes me wonder if that's something that it's something that we have actually started this action, that they are going to use that against me. so i'm feeling a little vulnerable at this moment. but also it's so important for people to understand that what i did there was talk to a reporter. and my staff, my doctors, medical assistance, all anybody wants to do is be able to say to someone who comes in and has a pregnancy, you are this far along. this is likely going to be the best state for you to go to in order to obtain legal abortion care. >> i certainly don't want to do any of those things to endanger you, though everything you and i did that weekend was dangerous. there was security around us. but doctors who help you with that, and you fall under surveillance. you were telling me you live and are surrounded by a community of people who are supportive, but the fact, is in post roe america, people in your line of work are endangered. >> that is true. i would say, i would like to say we are less endangered for what we do when it comes to people being able to access abortion, as it is what we do, as we try to make people access any of the reproductive health care rights. we are just as vulnerable for helping people access contraception. the stories i could tell about trying to help people. we provide free prenatal care and trying to get them into do a delivery is ridiculously impossible, because the state is, and the doctors are, against our providing care. so, this isn't just about abortion. it's about people being able to access all of their health care needs, especially reproductive health care needs. it's so imperative, because we just saw a study just this week that said alabama now has the highest maternal mortality rate, and for black women in alabama, that rate is now one in every 100 births. >> one in 100. that is higher than rates in undeveloped countries around the world. there are places like rwanda and kenya that do not have anywhere close to that maternal maternal -- mortality rate. help me understand the point you just made, though. about how this has imperiled health care for all pregnant people, not simply a portion. what are the instances in which you see where advice you give, guidance you give, or attempts you have to help people, it's not even about abortions! it's about reproductive health. >> for instance, right now, we are offering prenatal care, especially for patients who are uninsured or who are trying to navigate the process of getting medicaid, which is not expanded that here in the state. and as such, we continue to provide that prenatal care for them at every point in their pregnancy, knowing that prenatal care consistent and early is going to be the biggest lifesaver when it comes to changing these rights. unfortunately, now that we have been operating for about a year, we are hitting a point where our patients are starting to need to deliver. and we are having a very pitiful time getting anyone in our hospital system to work with us. what, ideally, we want to do is be able to transfer over that care so that when they do go into the hospital, that they are seeing a doctor they have met before, that already has the records, that is aware of their circumstance and and the complications that might be involved instead, we are being forced to tell them, here are your records. take them with you when you go. you're just going to have to give them to whatever doctor is there. you can't reschedule for inductions. they can't do anything like that. and our patients are poor. our patients aren't ones who have not had preventative health care. they are diabetic. they are older. they have heart issues. and we can't just provide the best care possible, especially as they head into delivery, is horrifying. and to have doctors who say to us well, maybe if you can't do delivery, you should not be doing prenatal care in a place where doctors are having prenatal care appointments booked three, four, five months out. that is horrifying to me! >> robin, your strong. stay strong, the what you're doing. thank you, as always, for making us understand this even though there is danger to you and your colleagues and the people in your state who are trying to fight this. you always said to me, don't give up on alabama, because you know, this is, alabama is the canary in the coal mine. we are seeing that to be true. robin marty it's the operations director at the west alabama women's center. she's got of several important books, including the new handbook for a post roe america. state where you are. we have more velshi, after the break. antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 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[coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. >> we have some breaking news out of pakistan, where the foreign minister, imran khan, has been arrested. this comes after a court convicted con in the case involving concealed assets, handed down a three-year prison sentence. con, you may know him as a cricket star, turned politician. he was ousted in april of 2022 but he remains very popular and is the leading opposition politician. importantly, the -- could bar khan from running or holding public office. elections are set to be held later this year. khan it's the seventh former pakistani prime minister to be arrested. turning down to the war in ukraine, or for the second time in as many days, a russian vessel in the black sea near crimea has been attacked by a ukrainian drone. take a look at this video. the ukrainian security service source tells nbc news that in the latest attack, ukraine used a naval drone to target a large oil tanker, which this video posted to telegram, appears to show. attacks f intensified in the black sea area, since russia decided not to renew the black sea grain deal. which allowed vitally needed grain to flow from ukraine to the rest of the world. since then, russia's intensified attacks on ukraine, ports, and great facilities in odessa and elsewhere along the southern coast. this comes as russia has also intensified a crackdown on dissent and opposition within the country. yesterday, this man, the russian opposition leader, alexei navalny, was given a new 19 year prison sentence for supporting quotes, extremism. by promoting terrorism, funding extremism, and rehabilitating nazism. navalny is already serving a nine year sentence in a maximum security penal colony. this is a new 19 year sentence. meanwhile, this man, the opposition politician, and my good friend, eleanor kara-murza, lost an appeal this week of his 25-year prison sentence on charges, including treason. all for speaking out against vladimir putin and his war in ukraine. kara-murza, who is suffering from multiple health issues, was on the chilly arrested last april, but day after appearing on this very show, where he was criticizing the war in defiance of russian loss. he has continued to defend his beliefs, and was defiant during his sentencing. we'll be right back. right back. th maximum otc strength lidocaine that contours to the body to relieve pain right where it hurts. and did we mention, it really, really sticks? salonpas, it's good medicine. with a majority of my patience with sensitivity, i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. you know, people always ask me, "kevin, what does being the ceo of cashbacking mean to you?" it means cashbacking every opportunity. 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house january six committee. however, this new indictment by jack smith details even more incriminating information that the public did not see. i want to walk you through what we knew was happening in public, versus what we know now what's happening behind closed doors on january 6th. at the time, we knew that the stop the steal rally was happening in washington, d.c.. blocks away from the capital building. donald trump was billed as the keynote speaker. the rally began at 11 again. we now know that in the morning, as crowds of trump supporters gathered for the rally, the indictment says quote, an agent of the defendant, that's trump, contacted the united states senator to ask them to hand deliver documents to the vice president when one of the senator staffers contacted a staffer for the vice president by text message to arrange for delivery of what the senator staffer had been told were alternate slates of electors for michigan and wisconsin. the vice presidents staffer rejected them. all right, we also now know, according to the indictment, that 11:15 a.m., shortly after the stop the steal rally began and rudy giuliani and john eastman took the stage, president trump called vice president mike pence and quote, again, pressured him to fraudulently reject returned biden's legitimate electoral votes. the vice president, again, refused. all right, at 11:56 a.m., we already knew that trump riled up the crowd with false statements about the election. he said, quote, all vice president pence has to do is send it back to the states to recertify, and we become president and you are the happiest people, end quote. he also encourage the crowd to march to the capital building, where congress was getting ready to certify the election, and they did. all right, shortly before one pm, vice president mike pence issued a statement saying he did not have the authority to reject the electoral votes. at 105 pm, the nation watched in horror as protesters breached the security barriers at the capitol. now, we knew between one and two pm, trump watched the chaos unfold on tv, and at 2:13 pm, rioters broke into the capital. we also know at 2:25 pm, vice president pence was evacuated from the capital to a safe location. at 2:44 pm, ashli babbitt's, a trump supporter, was shot by capitol lot enforcement as she tried to get where members of congress were being held protectively. she subsequently died. now, back below the line to some of the behind the scenes details we did not know before this indictment, at three pm, president trump spoke on the phone with the house minority leader, kevin mccarthy, and quote, told the minority leader that the crowd at the capitol was more upset about the election than the minority leader was, end quote. it wasn't, however, until 4:17 pm that trump told the angry mob of his own supporters to go home. in a video message posted to twitter, though he continued to push the false claim that the election was stolen. we didn't know what we now know, is that 60, and before the certification of the electoral vote, president trump attempted to reach two unnamed senators through white house aides, and between 6:59 and 7:18 pm, coconspirator one, whom we now know to be rudy giuliani, placed calls to five senators and one house representative. we also now know that at 701 pm, while giuliani was making those calls, the white house counsel called trump to ask him to withdraw any objections and allow the certification of the election. trump refused. between eight of six pm and 11:35 pm, the house of representatives and the senate were called back into session to begin counting the electoral votes. what we did not know before this is that at 11:44 pm, the coconspirator number two, whom we believe to be john eastman, emailed mike pence's counsel and quote, said, i implore you to consider one more relatively minor violation of the electoral count act. and adjourned for ten days to allow the legislatures to finish their investigations, end quote. as we know, that did not work. and at 3:41 a.m. on january 7th, vice president mike pence certify the 2020 election for joseph r. biden. this only covers about 24 hours. the indictment reveals so many more details that we did not know before. details that show a much more sophisticated effort to overturn the election than we originally understood. and after a quick break, i'm going to talk about all these new details with mark harris. he's a former senior investigative counsel for the house select committee on the january 6th attack. nuary 6th attack to this day i only paid what i had to pay for the device... when i go back everything is covered. there's so much you're missing by not having hearing aids. we'll find you a hearing aid that fits your lifestyle and budget at one of our over fifteen hundred locations. call miracle ear at 1-800-miracle and schedule your free, no obligation hearing evaluation today. 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>> there are a few tidbits. i would say, most of the timeline, you laid out was known to the committee. in fact, we had a hearing that we referred to as the hundred and 82 minutes hearing, which is about what happened between the time that trump left the stage and issue that 417 tweet. so, there's a lot of that tiktok there was no. there were portions of the indictment that rely on facts that we didn't have access to. for example, there's a lot of emphasis on the president, former presidents, interaction with vice president pence. that was something that we didn't have, because vice president pence was not willing to talk to the select committee. so, a lot of the details around that, i thought, pretty interesting. i would add one thing to the timeline you laid out. there was the a, couple of things. there was the 11:15 phone call that he referenced in the timeline. we knew about the call, but i thought the indictment did a nice job of pointing out that immediately after that call, immediately after he got off the call with vice president pence, in which there was testimony he called about a bad word or he use the word, apparently, according to a witness. to that call. immediately after that call, the former president revised his speech that he gave on the ellipse to put back in comments, critical of vice president pence that had been taken out of the speech. that is a fairly significant fact that shows his intent to really bring pressure to bear on the vice president. >> what's your sense of mike pence's role? we all know the public role he played. he had this council, you know, the council decided to call jay michael luttig, the judge, who told him in no uncertain terms you can't do this. the guy said, i need some cover. so, luttig decided to tweet out, we know how that happened. but once we know from pence's own contemporaneous notes, what was happening in his conversations with donald trump, what does that do to strengthen the argument, if at all? >> well, it's just sort of closes the loop. we have a lot of information from vice president pence's staff, his chief of staff, as general counsel, about the interactions. but the allegations in the indictment that described with, as you know, reference to vice president pence's contemporary notice, really sort of seal the deal in terms of the relentlessness of the pressure that former president trump was putting on as vice president, the fact that his vice president was telling him repeatedly, i cannot do this. this is inappropriate. your own lawyers are telling you it's inappropriate. and those sorts of details really add flavor to that sort of dynamic, and i think are incredibly damning. >> what's your sense of this idea that the recommendations that came out of your committee were different than the four counts in the indictment? tell me how that is relevant? obviously, a lot of attorneys and a lot of prosecutors say prosecutors want a case they can prosecute that is relatively easy to understand. i say having read this whole thing, it's relatively easy to understand. >> yeah, i agree. and i think there are differences. there are recommended charges by the select committee, regarding aiding and abetting an insurrection. but i think the tone, the tenor, the themes of the indictments are directly in line with what you saw on the hearings by the select committee last summer. they've adopted, frankly, i think a lot of the path that we've laid out, a lot of the evidence is in there, as i said, there's some nuggets that they are able to add that we didn't have access to. but i don't think, and i've seen members of the committee interviewed in the last several days, and i think the consensus seems to be that the members feel that this indictment is sort of a faithful to the work that they did. >> mark, it was a privilege to talk to you. thank you for being with us this morning. marc harris is a former senior investigative counsel for the house january six committee. straight ahead, the very latest on a big revelations broke in the special counsel's case against donald. trump plus, what a former top aide to mike pence makes of -- as the former vice president emerge this week as a key figure in the latest indictment of donald trump. and, i will call to order this week's meeting of the kelsey pant book club, on the agenda, margin so trapeze persepolis. another hour of velshi begins right now, let's begin.

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