Justice department is taking this language from defended trump very seriously. The Special Counsel team cited trumps truth social post in an immediate and pressing requests for the judge to impose a protective order to prevent the former president from making public any Sensitive Information turned over by the prosecutors. From that request quote, such a restriction is particularly important in this case, because the defendant has previously issued public statements on social media regarding witnesses, judges, attorneys, and others associated with legal matters pending against him. End quote. In response, trumps Spokesperson Put out a statement, claiming the post is quote, the definition of political speech. End quote. The implication that it is protected by the First Amendment. The protective order that the quote is seeking, is in reference to trumps scheme to interfere with the 2020 election and that desperate temps to cling to power during the final weeks of his presidency. Its a case that is, perhaps, the most resident too many americans, because millions of people watch the events of january six unfold in realtime, and understand the violence of january six was an extension of trumps reckless lies. This indictment validates that and goes even further, laying out evidence that the efforts behind the scenes by trump and his coconspirators were worse than we thought. Despite the foolish public spectacles put on by trumps socalled elite Strikeforce Team in the weeks after the election, there was actually seriously they were discussing ways to keep donald trump in place as president. And the indictment makes a strong and clear case that trump knew this effort was bogus and eat legal. You lost dozens of lawsuits challenging the legitimacy of the Election Results in multiple states, but he persisted in pushing lies about the election, lies he knew to be lies. Its claims of a stolen election were also disputed by senior advisers, white House Counsel, governor, secretary of state, and other Election Administration officials. Including his own cybersecurity expert, whom trump fired days after that experts proclaimed that the 2020 election was quote, the most secure and american history. And quote. In the words of one senior advisory, quote, its all just conspiracy stuff being down from the membership. End quote. Of the coup attempt went far beyond trumps disregard for facts. One trump advisor warns that the scheme would lead to riots, quote, Coconspirator Two confirmed, now to be the lawyer, john eastman, responded that there had been previously points in the nations history where violence was necessary to protect the republic. End quote. When similar concerns were raised with coconspirator for, who is believed to be former department of justice official jeffrey clark, he responded, quote, well, thats why theres an insurrection act. That is a not to the idea the president could mobilize the military against American People in order to quash riots. The indictment even lays out how trump was prepared to oust the acting Attorney General and install this man, jeffrey clark, who was willing and ready to carry out trumps bidding and use the office and the powers of the Attorney General to advance the fake electors scheme. Some coups that have actually succeeded elsewhere in the world were not this well planned. Or sophisticated. Donald trump and his coconspirators were One Small Step away from actually stealing the election and undermining democracy. While Donald Trumps scheme ultimately failed back in january 2021, he remains unapologetic, unrepentant, and he continues to undermine democracy. Over the past two and a half years, he has proven he has prepared to do it all again, if given the chance. Last december, he even went as far as to call for quote, the determination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the constitution. Even those found in the constitution. Words out of the mouth of the man who was the president of the United States, who is now the front runner for the republican nomination for the presidency of the United States. He has since been on a campaign of retribution, regularly claiming at his Campaign Rallies the federal government has been weaponized against him, claiming quote, they want to take away my freedom because i will never let them take away your freedom. They want to silence me because i will never let them silence you. And in the end, theyre not after, me there after you, and im just standing in their way. End quote. Or, in more blunt terms, if you go after me, im coming after you. Joining me now is jennifer reuben. She is an Opinion Writer for the Washington Post, and msnbc political analyst, the host of the podcast, jen reuben screen room, and author of resistance, how women save democracy from donald trump with us as well. Ruth benghiat, a professor of history and wagyu, author of lucid, a newsletter about threats to democracy through our not subscribing through it, you must. Shes the author of a very important book, strong men, from mussolini to the president. Good morning to both of you. Jen, in response to the Special Counsels filing last night, i want to remind you you are trained as a lawyer, Donald TrumpsCampaign Says his truth social post is quote, the definition of political speech. Now, on the surface, a quote that says if you go after me, im coming after you, gusher, thats political speech. But this is not in a vacuum. From a legal standpoint, tell me what you think of this . This is a guy who had just been a rain, to constantly says this is a witch hunts, he goes after the administration, he goes after judges, he goes after lawyers, and the judge magistrate told him the other day, dont threaten anybody. Dont intimidate anybody. Dont intimidate anyone. We dont know what his post means. What do you think it means . Well, i think this is what donald trump believes. He has always been around threats of violence, he has always incited his crowd. So, i think he is in a poor position to argue free speech in this case. Because he is not in the standing of a normal individual. And individual who is out there campaigning. He is free on bail. He is not being incarcerated under certain conditions. And those conditions are, he doesnt do things like this. So, we are going to have to see whether the magistrate or the judge, more likely, decides to impose a protective order, what kind of protective order, that is, and or tap and when he violates it . When you issue a protective order, you have to be willing to stand behind it, and there has to be some willing this to, i dont know, incarcerate him . Demands other Bond Protections . So, this is typical trump. People push and push and go over the line, and then run back and playing the same protections that everyone does in a democracy. Its typical trump bluster, bluff, threatening, violence. Ruth, Kevin Mccarthy had an interesting statement. He said it is everybodys right to contest an election, and Hillary Clinton did that and l courted that and Stacey Abrams did that, and none of them got arrested for it. But al gore, the case went to the supreme court, and the minute it was decided by the supreme court, hillary he conceded. Hillary clinton, people forget, concede at the next day. Stacey abrams fought it, and had recounts, and she lost. Then, she conceded. But the indictment itself states very clearly, donald trump has every right to recounts, appeals, audits, all that kind of stuff. All of that happened, and he still lost. Then, he created a scheme to overturn the election. They are not the same thing. No. And none of those instigated a violent coup to stay in office. Illegally. Whats interesting about the indictment is its actually, it lays out elements of the authoritarian playbook that reviews from november onward. You have propaganda. His great effectiveness at convincing tens of millions of people. Hes won the election. You have the rule of elite enablers. Weve talked before, ali, that for every Person Fashing Heads that we see, that we saw in the capital, theres another person in an expensive suit or a uniform in a coup who is directing the action. Then, you have the recourse to violence. And you know, we are reminded the plans to use the military and, of course, the new playbook also used by bolsonaro, if you cant get the military to play, you have your Civilian Army of thugs. That does it. So, its very different than what anyone else has done in american history. And i really hope that message resonates. Its just not the same thing. You cannot bring alcorn and Hillary Clinton and Stacey Abrams into this to compare it. Lets talk about the indictment, jen. In an oped for the Washington Post about this latest indictment, you wrote, quote, smith did not clutter overcharged, nor cluttered the indictment with repetitive charges. He appears intent on keeping the case relatively simple. Simple does not mean unserious, however. Choosing not to bring that icy charge of sedition or conspiracy to commit sedition, smith nevertheless captures the enormity of the crime, the assault on our democracy. End quote. I want to have you just talk about that a little bit, we have both seen, in our time covering these things, cases that are robust but too complicated. They fall apart in the details. This thing is repetitive, but it does say what donald trump did. But knowing lies that he undertook to undermine democracy. Exactly. And he doesnt do something that frankly, i think the january Six Committee tried to do. And it might be possible, but would lead to many more complications and difficulties improve. Also, the First Amendment. He is not accused, in this indictment, of instigating the violence. With jack smith writes is that He Opportunistically used the violence. Now, you and i and ruth could make the argument, of course he instigated it, in common parlance, that is what he was trying to do. Thats what he was hoping to do. But as a legal matter, smith doesnt go there. He doesnt go there for a couple of reasons. One, he has to make these charges stick beyond a reasonable doubt, and he cant make that connection. He will lose, and he will lose credibility with the jury. Second is, and thats when you see him already, trump, as soon as he is accused of threatening, of inciting, claims First Amendment. Ive got a First Amendment right to do this. Frankly, theres a lot of legal analysis that whatever he said on the ellipse this its not covered by the First Amendment. But it becomes an issue. If there is a whole line of cases beginning with the brandenburg case, that basically says you have to really prove that someone is in that moment, Instigating Immediate violence in order to lose the First Amendment protection. Jack smith doesnt go that route. He says theres plenty of other evidence, and what we are showing is a very detailed plot well before january six involving the Vice President , involving the Justice Department, involving these State Officials, and violence trump very opportunistically used, of course, incited that one mike pence was in danger, and he also did nothing. He sat back in the oval office, waiting for the crowd to do its business. But its a very carefully, very cleverly drawn indictment that is meant to get to trial quickly and have the best possible chance of success. Ruth, on tuesday night, read this indictment into a podcast. Its an hour and a half long. Its 45 pages, 42 of them are count one, and then counts two, three, and four, our one page each. Count four is actually just two paragraphs, and i actually thought of me while i was reading this into the microphone. It says, paragraph 130 in the case. It says, from honor about november 14th, 2020, honor about january, 2021, in the District Of Columbia and elsewhere, the defendant, donald j trump, did knowingly combine, conspire, and confederate and agree with coconspirators, known and unknown to the grand jury, to injure a press, threaten and intimidate one or more persons in the free exercise and enjoyment of eight right and privileged secure to them by the constitution and loss of the United States. That is, the right to vote and to have ones vote counted. Those are the final words in this entire indictment. The right to vote in the point you always make to me, that the right to vote is not the only thing that matters and democracy. The right to have ones vote count it. And donald trump, jack smith alleges, undermined that. That is the meat of this thing. Yeah, absolutely. Is very moving. I was very moved when i read that, and even now, also because if we didnt live in a democracy, this could never happen. This indictments. And i also want to make a point about trumps you know, threats. If you come after me, ill come after you. This is not just to the judge or the judiciary. This is a threat to other republicans who are running for office or anybody who might try to take him down, because he is at his most desperate now. That arraignment, you know, he couldve done it on zoom. He needed to have the spectacle, the trump for son and that look president ial. But it was a humiliation. Authoritarian personalities do not respond well to this, especially when it was, as you say, an entire you know, scheme to defraud not just the government, but to defraud ordinary americans from having a voice. Thank you to both of you. Theres a lot more to talk about here, into fortunately, of ottoman are today for us. Jennifer reuben is an Opinion Writer for the Washington Post, the host of gentlemans green room podcast, and an msnbc political analyst. Shes also the author of resistance, how women save democracy from donald trump. Ruth benghiat its a professor of history and like you and the author of strongmen, from mussolini to the precedence. And as jack smith said, its vitally important that we all read the second indictment against donald trump. Of course, we may not have a time to literally read it. It takes about an hour and a half, but i have read it, and ive now made it available as a special podcast, msnbcs prosecuting donald trump podcast. You can scan these q r code on the corner of your screen if you want to listen that were after the show. Hounding up next, a glossary of coconspirators. Weve decoded the identities of most of the six people represented by Coconspirator Numbers in the indictment. Im going to tell you who they are to be and what they are accused of doing. Plus, like yesterday, it judge in texas issued a temporary exception to the states abortion ban. That will, for, now allow abortions for women with certain Pregnancy Complications and medical emergencies. This comes after three texas women who assumed the state, about having their own lifesaving care dangerously delayed by texass draconian abortion ban. Coming, up all talk to robbyn marty, part of another lawsuit in another state with dystopian level antiabortion laws on the books. Marquee isnt on those doing the state of alabama for the freedom to talk about abortion, to be able to tell patients how to access legal abortion. Outside the state of alabama. Alabama im your overly competitive brother. Check. Psych and im about to steal this game from you just like i stole kelly carter in high school. You got no game dude, thats a foul and now youre ready to settle the score. Game over. And if you dont have the right Home Insurance coverage, well, you could end up paying for all this yourself. So get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, yeah, like me. Thanks, bro. 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Nows the time to see what americas largest 5g network can do for your business. Special counsel jack smiths latest indictment against donald trump presents a fact we sort of already knew. Donald trump had help in his attempt to dismantle democracy. In the newest criminal charges filed against trump, federal prosecutors allege that he elicited the health of six coconspirators to quote, assist him in his criminal efforts to overturn the legitimate