coconspirator best known for being detained without pants helped him do it. >> step on out. here >> come this way. >> can i put pence on? first >> sir, you've got to clear the house. >> and why the people who prosecuted the impeachment of donald trump agree with the attorneys defending donald trump that the federal trial of donald trump should be televised. >> let's have cameras in the courtroom so that all americans can see what is happening in our criminal justice system. >> when all in starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. well, for donald trump, the stakes at the next presidential election are clear. we all know them. he is running for his freedom. they put and even finer point on it, he's running for his life. the ex president now faces 78 criminal accounts across three jurisdictions and a combined 641 years in prison. at age 77, if he's convicted of any offenses, just one, he could spend the rest of his natural life behind bars. the stakes for the country are equally dire. donald trump tried to and america's constitutional republic. we've known that, have known that for a while. the facts there alleged in the most recent indictment. the facts as they are laid out in the 848-page select committee report, and the facts as we all witnessed them with our own two eyes in the run up to and on the day of january six, 2021. had donald trump convinced enough people to go along with the scheme, we could be living right now and a kind of presidential dictatorship. he has explicitly set and signaled multiple times that he is running again to finish the job. >> i will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of the united states of america, joe biden. [applause] and the entire biden crime family. name a special prosecutor, and all others involved with the destruction of our elections, our borders and our country itself. when i am reelected, and we will get reelected, will have no choice, we won't have a country anymore. i will totally obliterated the deep state. we will obliterate the deep state. >> the ex president now finds himself cornered. he's mostly alone, you notice that? none of his family members by his side, unable to cement the mobs with the official power of the presidency. he smaller, anyways, not getting any younger, and he is attempting to start his way through. this afternoon, heat there and, apparently, his prosecutors, writing, if you go after me, i'm coming after you. if elected next year, donald trump could very well escape accountability. that is the plan of him and his advisers. get elected and avoid facing trial over the doesn't of charges -- and then upon taking office, he would say about the task of completing the unfinished work of january six, which was the work of destroying american democracy. as the new york times reported last month, trump and his allies are planning a sweeping expansion of presidential power of the government. reshaping to structure of the executive branch to concentrate far greater authority in his hands. it includes bringing in independent agencies under direct presidential control, dividing the practices of impounding funds, refusing to spend money congress appropriated for the president does not like. making it easier to repay civil servants, removing state department intelligence agency officials that he described as the sikh political class of hatred and crime. let's be clear, a lot of this is tough talk from a guy who is in a lot of trouble. hitting up the caps a lock on his truth social post, but you've got to take it seriously. if you ever seen an image of what happened on january six, right? the guy is running for president, he can't win. imagine how our system of justice would run in that world? it's hard to think about, but it could have been. taking the oath, he's elected president, maybe he would pardon his unindicted coconspirator jeffrey clark and finally succeed installing that guy as attorney general. not a completely farfetched idea if donald trump wins the presidency again. he could not beat making it more clear that he intends to defeat american democracy once and for all if he is given the means. obviously, obviously, it goes without saying, i know i had to say, but a man like that should not be. -- that was clear to me and many of you eight years ago when he came down the escalator. >> there are mechanisms stopping short of putting him in person for the rest of his life. first of all, there's a good case to be made that he should be barred from holding office under the 14th amendment of the constitution. section three of which states, and i quote, no person should hold any office having previously taken an oath to support the constitution of the united states, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion or the same, and there's been a movement sprung up to try to bar his reelection on precisely these grounds. i gotta say, it has not gotten a ton of attention, but i think it has a lot of mayor. donald trump plainly engaged and an insurrection and should be ineligible for future office per the u.s. constitution. i think the original intent of the amendment would see it that way too. but, of course, there is another way that he could be a part of the future office, and that is impeachment. remember that one? after january six, donald trump was impeached by the house for the second time, the first president ever. he could have been convicted in the senate, and pursuant to the conviction, barred from holding future office. several members of his party voted for that conviction. it was the most bipartisan support for a impeachment conviction in the history at the nation. at one point, even senate majority leader mitch mcconnell was reportedly considering voting to convict. when it came down to it, mcconnell just washed his hands of the whole thing. shrugged, told the country, not my job to hold donald trump accountable, but maybe someone else to do it? >> our system of government gave a specific task. the constitution gives us a particular role. this body is not invited to act as the nation's overarching moral tribunal. president trump is still liable for everything he did while in office. as an ordinary citizen, unless the statute of limitations is run, still liable for everything he did while in office. it is not get away with anything yet, yet. we have a criminal justice system in this country. we have civil litigation, and former presidents are not immune from being accountable to either one. >> all of these guys, they're also tough, stern, hectoring, posting in caps lock, it's mcconnell, he's not at the woods yet. bravely standing on the senate floor to dump the problem of a sociopathic, maniacal hater of democracy on someone else. he should really do something about this guy. and thereby allowing the ex president to escape accountability and the of his punishment for his crimes which is to bar him from running for office again, where he cannot do so and threatened the republic. and mitch mcconnell voted to acquit donald trump. he told republicans to vote their conscience and all those that voted to acquit. so, now that someone else has actually done the thing that mitch mcconnell said they should do, hold him liable for his alleged crimes under a system of justice, gosh, have not heard a lot from mitch. he seemed silent on the matter. to be clear, we are where we are, with both accountability of donald trump and the fate of the american constitutional republic, i am not overstating things, hanging in the balance, a toss-up, because mitch mcconnell and all the senate republicans and the whole republican party just refused to do the obvious simple straightforward thing. they could have just convicted him. we would not be here, but they refused to convict him, for inciting a violent insurrection act, there earned a bunch of police officers, the life of the vice president, an insurrection that went on for hours, violently in front of us, where over 1000 people have been charged, that we all watched happen, the one that he incited, that we knew he incited, that they could have convicted him that, could have barred him from future office, but they did not. so now we have time to think. congresswoman madeleine dean is -- served as the manager in the second impeachment trial of donald trump. she joins me now. well, have you thought about that impeachment as much as i have been the last few days? >> i've thought about it an awful lot, chris, thank you for having me on. you're absolutely right, and we as managers, as we prepare the case with the able league of jamie raskin, so faithful to the constitution, we really believe that this evidence was so overwhelming that, of course, 100 senators should have voted guilty. . we knew what was going on politically, but what we wanted was for a guilty verdict and then the opportunity, as you say, to disqualify him by way of a separate vote for further office. you're absolutely right, there are other constitutional means, the 14th amendment, insurrection, the 25th amendment, and we have learned that some secretaries they begin to speak about disqualifying him, showing that he's unfit for office. the founders gave us these levers, the break the glass levers in the case at this level of corruption and criminality. i have to tell you the last day when each member of the senate, you know how they did, they started to cast their votes, i went running back in from the little war room where we prepared to see and watch and listen to their votes. and i watched as miss mcconnell stood and his place, said not guilty, sat down, and when we went back to the courtroom, within minutes at the conclusion a deficit, as you say, 57, 43, mitch mcconnell stood and gave a prepared speech that said that the president is practically and morally responsible. practically speaking of both sides of his mouth. i think about it a lot. >> it was a very stern speech after being voted not guilty. what is important to me that we face ourselves in this remarkable situation, the multiple indictments, the most important is jack smith's indictment, for the crimes that is laid out in the select committee's report. that criminal conviction is not the only means at our disposal. the constitution kahntah puts precisely the most appropriate sanction here, that we got to this point, which is disqualification. it is contemplated by the constitution, the notion that certain people should be barred from office. if ever such a person existed, it seems to be that this man is he. >> you know, i was thinking, as we were preparing the case, and one i would be off and not having a role, which is be observing and preparing, i was thinking and praying frankly that the members of the senate would have been called for the wisdom of solomon. you know what solomon asked for? he asked for an open heart. he asked for wisdom and an open heart. god said that i am very impressed with. that you did not ask for power, riches or long life. i prayed that those folks there would see with the wisdom of solomon, what this country needed, which was to disqualify this man, hold him accountable, to hold him guilty for incitement of insurrection and disqualify him. look at where we are now because they're not do their duty, because they did not after with them. they were instead praying for power, and i don't know what else. >> how do you think about all of this unfolding? how seriously do you take the threat? he's a front runner for the nomination, we're a polarized country, if you went one of the major party nominations, you are, you know, -- he probably start with 40% of the vote. >> it's extraordinarily frightening. you see the polls that have president biden and the former guy a dead heap. i believe that will shake out and become very, very different because the economy has moved in the right direction. we have past incredible resources that are going into american communities, into american homes and businesses. i think that will change, but you are right to sound an alarm. this is a very scary time. if this man gets the nomination, somehow delays these trials. i have a feeling that the judge in d.c. will not be played with. but if somehow he gets the nomination or, somehow, would win the election, the threat to our democracy is so grave, i don't even want to talk about it. you have raised some at those things. he says a out loud. i was thinking of his inaugural and dress. remember what he said, the stunning line, that this american carnage stops now. you know what i heard when he said that, this american carnage starts now. he is in the midst of american carnage. people have lost their lives, and we have people like mccarthy and mcconnell taking a backseat to all of this. mccarthy entertaining the idea of the resolutions to a race is impeachments as though that never happened. tell that to the officers who lost their lives, to the families who lost their lives, the officers so severely wounded. all of us in the capital terrorized, your colleagues terrorized, these staffers who cleaned up the mess, you can't arrest this part of history. and we must not let this former president, this criminal, former president who cares nothing for democracy get back into office. >> congresswoman madeleine dean of pennsylvania, one of the impeachment managers, very important and while presented a second impeachment of the former president. thank you so much. >> thank you, chris. >> coming up, the story of the unassuming, environmental lawyer with a plo american democracy. but first, they had a chance to do their job, and they blew it. the republican party responsibility for our current predicament next. predicament next [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... 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>> i have covered politics for will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. over 20 years, and i can safely say if the democratic party had a front runner right now for the presidential nomination, who was facing 78 felony counts in different jurisdictions, possibly for reelection, you'd be witness-ing the freedom from space. the amount of whaling and actually a teeth and whining and consternation and firing of op-eds would be epic. it seems the public -- internal word accusations. but now, as the republican party is faced with this reality, they seem bizarrely on bothered by the sheer political problem presented by the man who currently seems likely to be their nominee possibly getting convicted of multiple felonies in the middle of an election. donald trump is wrapping up enough delegates to win the primary -- or if you come during or just after the republican convention in july. he would think that republicans would be a little concerned about that. putting aside for a moment whatever principles are opposition some republican officials may feel towards trump's attempt to overthrow democracy, which don't seem that strong, frankly. forget about that, obviously, i am worked up about that. but purely electoral stuff and just, wouldn't you expect to see some sense of urgency over the political problem at the party now faces. adam serwer is a staff writer for atlantic magazine, where the latest piece is they are still with him. how conservative elites elected courage and will tease their influence to oppose trump, and that is why they are a winning force in american politics. >> jennifer horn is a -- former board member of the national committee. her podcast -- and both join me now. jennifer, if your job is getting republicans elected, and it want the party to be successful politically, which is generally the case of professional members of either political party, are people freaking out and i am not hearing it? i don't get. explain the psychology to me. here are the options, they think it won't matter, if trump is trump. they think that there is nothing that they can do, or they think 2024 is screwed, or just wait till 2028. what do they think? >> i wondered about that 2024, let's just wait till 2028 theory a few times. i do think that the republican party looked that donald trump, and he is their key for fund raising and for organizing and energizing the base. they need him to hang on to power. i do wonder it perhaps they decided to write off the white house for 2024 and focus on trying to hold on to the house and get into the senate and finding that much more politically advantageous for themselves. however, i would say is that the republican party has a long history of simply choosing cowardice over courage when it comes to doing what is right with regards to donald trump. twice, they could have voted to impeach him, won a does would have removed him from office. there is talk at the beginning of trump's administration about the 25th amendment, and there was nobody brave enough to discuss it publicly. i would also remind folks that it goes back to before trump became president. you know when the billy bush tape came out in 2016 between the two debates, just before the second debate, there were several of us on the rnc in touch with the chairman, begging him to at least put it to a vote to the rnc members to either a resolution against him or pulled the party support or something. and even then, there was simply no courage. >> you know, adam, one of my favorite forms of trump era whining is whining from conservatives who don't of donald trump but are willing to go along with it, be stuck with them. it's liberals fault that conservatives are stuck with donald trump, and the wall street journal, they have a real lock undoes. this is an editorial talking about democrats and the trump indictment spectacle saying, they want the election to be about the former president, all the time. >> we're not really choosing here. why do you think that there is not more freak out, a sort of base political level about what it means for electoral profits. >> it's like doctor frankenstein turning to everybody in the village saying, why did you do this? their audience will not listen to anyone outside the conservative media. neither you nor i could do that persuasive work in saying that this man is unfit for office, the new york times cannot do it, the washington post cannot do. only they can do it, and as he saw with the fox news dominion lawsuit, they lacked the moral fiber to do, even when they know that he is wrong. they are afraid of the monster that they have created. i think as you said earlier, chris, the fact is what you have one of the two major party nominations, you have a good chance of being president. they think he can win, and as long as there is political upside from their perspective to defending him then impending him, that the fentanyl matter what he does. >> that point about persuasion is in important one, what i focus on a lot, which is that persuasion, a, is possible, b is the lifeblood of democratic politics is some level, and see, it's also something that has to be sustained. we see these occasional one offs when someone says something about trump or a day, but the only way you persuade people is like a sustained rigorous repeated argument over and over. you had to put your shoulders on the will if you will pry people off. and that to adam's point, there is no appetite. >> absolutely, clearly, persuasion requires persistence, and it does exist in this case. you look at every single candidate in the race, even if they all stayed in the race but we're on the same persuasive message, to your point, that would have an impact. what if nikki haley, tim scott, all of these guys were on the same message that chris christie is on. dig about the impact that that would happen republican voters. again, they lacked courage, they are principal and in this case, i don't think that they particularly necessarily wanted someone other than donald trump. >> that is really the question and to your point, i think jennifer's insight there is an interesting one, that they think they can write's court tells our suffer his fate enough if you will perform politically, poorly, that they could get the base they need. they did all right andy houston 2020. maybe you can ride the tire for one more go? >> look, if they knew by january 2020, everybody knew that this ban would and american democracy if he had the ability to do so, and they did not convict him in the senate, which they could have done without having -- not like they were facing a primary election after the. they were either afraid of him or prefer a road in which they never had to worry about losing an election or political argument in the democratic party ever again. that is just the reality. they are not bothered by the prospect of democracy no longer being a thing, at least not enough to stop it. >> adam serwer and jennifer horn, thank you both. still ahead, this man in a driveway not wearing any pants, and the insidious role he played and donald trump's plot to steal the election. that is next. at is next ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ get it with gurus. cargurus. sometimes jonah wrestles with falling asleep... ...so he takes zzzquil. the world's #1 sleep aid brand for a better night sleep. 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[laughing] book a get-away-from-work trip. use onekeycash. order some sides. do not disturb. join one key to earn and use rewards across expedia, hotels.com, and vrbo. >> you remember this and mitch, remember this one? it's hard to forget, former trump justice department official, jack-seat bought -- jeffrey boxer clark is under last year, in the fbi subpoena search warrant of his home. you see -- of donald trump's attempt to steal the election. mr. clark, who we are pretty sure is a coconspirator number four and trump's indictment, played a pivotal role in that scheme. here in the body cam footage, he looks well, comical and a bit pathetic. >> can you step outside with me? we have a search warrant, and we need you to step outside for me. >> can i call my? lawyer >> come outside for us. >> let's step aside. >> real quick, we had to clear your house. >> can i put pence on. >> they got to clear the house. as soon as we cleared the house, you can talk to your lawyer and you can get pence. on >> the scene is somewhat -- because if you look at jeffrey clark's bio anytime before 2020, it would be entirely unremarkable. he went to law school, worked for a court appeal after lawsuit, work for a law firm, headed the justice department environmental division for george w. bush administration, served as an adviser for mitt romney's 2012 presidential campaign, a prominent member of the federal society, the conservative legal group that stocks at the judicial branch with conservative judges. he was before working for donald j trump before 2020, quintessential republican washington lawyer, but jeffrey clark is also a key figure who wanted to take over the department of justice in 2020, and he wanted to throw the way at the doj behind trump's coup by sending letters to swing states who thought then that the election was not trustworthy, and that the state should send their own electors electing donald trump. when justice department officials, his bosses, would not bend to trump's will, trump tried to install trump in a mini coup at the doj as the acting attorney general in a bid to power, so clark send the letter out and have the doj help with the coup. and clark's starting role to subvert american democracy is detailed in the indictment. clark is not named, but he sure does match the description of coconspirator for. when clark was confronted with the ramifications of trying to steal the election, things took a turn according to the indictment. on page 30, federal prosecutors described the moment three days before the attempted coup, quote, on the afternoon of january 3rd, clark spoke with the deputy white house counsel, tried to dissuade clark from assuming the role of acting attorney general. the deputy white house counsel related to collect that had there not been an outcome determined fraud in the election, and that if trump remain in office nonetheless, there would be rights in every major city in the u.s.. clark responded, well, that's why there's an insurrection act. that is what i submit to you as the most chilling mind in the entire indictment. jeffrey clark, wanted to use the military to use force, their guns, bullets in the streets on the american people so as to install a dictatorship under donald j trump according to prosecutors. to be clear, the insurrection act is an 18 a seven law that allows the military to stop an uprising. that's the big combination at the entire conspiracy, the fantasy that jeffrey clark has. clark and others wanted -- when i read that part in the indictment, i thought of the infamous line about the finality of evil. as i looked at this middle age lawyers, his boxes and glasses, fantasizing about what those big bad troops would do it with their guns, how they would shove a dictatorship down the throats of the american people, he would think that the revelations of his role in the conspiracy would have to shrink's career, but in fact, it's been the opposite. he's been a celebrated figure, because the 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what is your read on the timing of that? >> right, so if mr. trump would try to stick to rely on the advice of counsel and say that i need coconspirator one, who is widely known as rudy giuliani or coconspirator to, john eastman, to testify, because only if he testifies, will i be able to make my defense, then john eastman's lawyer may very well say that my client has a fifth amendment right against self -- he can testify. that may cause some jockeying, because trump lawyers may say something like, you need to -- you're going to try him so that he's available to testify on my behalf. sometimes these kinds of things happen. we see this jackie, and these are things that could -- that judge chutkan will have to deal with. >> that's interesting. i had not thought of that. finally, do you think that the fact that all lawyers affected the timeline for the arrival of the indictment given the kind of privilege review and processes that you should have to go through having seized the records, phones, things like that beating up to the indictment? >> there is no question that before they did the search warrant that issued in the intro to the segment of the former high-level justice department official, a search war in the morning that seemed pretty clear that he had no awareness of, that means several things. that means that they were so worried that he would try to obstruct justice five potentially getting rid of evidence, that they did not give notice, did not reach out to his counsel or try to arrange some type of search. they did it in the early morning hours when he was not aware that it would be happening. that shows how significant they already thought he was in terms of the co-conspiracy, and that is something that would have been discussed at length within the department, so would any the searches of lawyers. the other thing it means is that once you collected evidence from that lawyer, you have to push it through a filter team. remember the filter team used in mar-a-lago for classified, same thing here, but there are attorney-client privilege. >> mary mccord, who i have really been relying on in the podcast throughout these days, thanks so much, appreciate it. >> of course. >> still to come, a very well could be the most consequential trial in american history. as of now, almost nobody will see it. why the trial of trump must be televised next. televised next [sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... 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>> no, none at all. so, i rarely agree with donald trump about anything. maybe this is the only thing. but his lawyer said it. if i am jack smith, i think you go in next week and make a preliminary filing to the district court and say, this is what we are seeing. and evidently, trump agrees. and i think it is time to get this agreement right now and decide it. it may require going through and getting the permission of the chief justice, through the judicial conference, given the fact that donald trump's own lawyer agrees. i think there is a way to read through 53 to basically permitted anyway, even the absence of the judicial conference -- but, regardless, i think it is really notable that both sides agree that, look, this criminal trial is in the name of the people of the united states. this is our tax dollars at work. we have an absolute right to see. it we have an absolute right to make sure that the rumor mongers and disinformation specialists that will claim every day this trial that x happened, or y happened, that we have a way to see it for ourselves, to police that, and make our own decision by going to the primary source. and chris hayes, i am really -- a lot of us are thinking -- comes from my experience in the george floyd murder trial -- and in minnesota -- rule 53, never televised a criminal trial. and obviously that was such a major, momentous travel for the, city for the country, for the world. we were concerned about what cameras would do. and i think the upshot was, that was a remarkably good proceeding, and one in which, i think, it gave confidence to everyone. >> yeah. >> i don't care what side of the case you were on beforehand. you watch that trial and you build confidence in the legal system. i think a similar thing should be done. here >> stuart, what do you think? >> to me, there is an interesting precedent here. with tim mcvay, they moved the trial from oklahoma city to -- the judge allowed a closed circuit television system to broadcast so that the victims, who couldn't come to -- to see what was happening -- and in this case as you have just said, the american people of the victims. and i think that that should be the same sort of thinking should apply, that the crime here is a crime against all of us -- a crime that many, many of our forefathers dyed to protect. so, i think it is sort of a mandate for the good of the country, and there is some precedent. >> yeah, you said that there is two pathways towards televising it -- trump -- when is the judicial conference, which is the governing body run by chief justice roberts, to vote for an amendment to world 53. another mechanism is for congress to pass a law, possibly contemplating rule for 53. but neal, you think of both parties agree, there might be a way to shortcut? that >> i do. i think that -- senator grassley of iowa, third conservative republican, introduced a bill earlier this year, for cameras more generally, in criminal trials. it had four democratic cosponsors, including senator amy klobuchar, democrat of minnesota. and i think, look, here the republicans are out there saying that this is a made-up case, that this is just free speech, that trump is being prosecuted in order to prevent him from running for president, and blah blah blah, and if they believe those things, let the american public see the trial and see how those defenses aaron a court of law. >> yeah, and i'm curious, stuart, in terms of the persuasive possibilities here. it is polling is interesting to me. reuters ipsos -- we cited this yesterday. republican respondents. would you vote for donald trump if you were convicted of a felony crime by a jury? yes, 35%. no, 45%. don't know, 20%. and then -- i like this one. would you vote for him if he was currently serving time in prison? yes, 28%. no, 52%, don't know -- my question to you is, do you think this can have an effect? a televised trial? or just the trial -- a particularly televised one on republican voters and on the opinion they have of the man? >> so, what we look at as a national precedent -- wouldn't it be watergate? where -- >> yeah. >> -- these hearings -- a lot of people focused on it for the first time. and you know, what is different about this moment is, a major party in the united states is attacking the judicial system, and has attacked the judicial system, from the very beginning, windows trump -- so, that really has not happened before. and one of the processes that we are undergoing now under the -- administration is a attempt to restore fundamental safe faith in law enforcement and the pillars of society. a trial like this, i think, would help you that. >> yeah. yeah. i think that project, sort of institutional fortification, which is sort of, in many ways, a product -- the project writ large of the biden administration, i agree with that quite a bit. stuart stevens, neal katyal, thank you gentlemen both. appreciate it. that is "all in" for this week. "alex wagner tonight" starts right now. good, evening alex. >> this feels like it has been a week of institutional fortification, doesn't it? >> i think it has been. yeah. >> it has. and that's a good note to end. and have a great weekend. >> thank you. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this evening. so, right now, at this very moment, former president donald trump is giving his first extended -- extended -- public remarks since he was indicted on tuesday for trying to overturn the 2020 election. at this event tonight, trump has been railing against the department of justice and multiple federal -- multiple federal criminal indictment that have been brought against him by that department. he has called out marxist prosecor