Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704

Him convicted came out of his mouth. This is a very sad day for america. Donald trump has never respected this country. He said this country was trash and garbage. The filth and the decay. And now he wants to lead it again. None of this is normal. This is our life now. After that i think we need to start tonight with a deep breath. Good evening once again, im stephanie ruhle. Americas 45th president , Donald John Trump returned to washington, d. C. Today as a criminal defendant. Trump appeared in federal court for his third arraignment since april, this time pleading not guilty to seeming to over the 2020 president ial election. This afternoon, trump traveled from his bedminster, new jersey home to the d. C. Courthouse just blocks from the capitals few blocks from the scene of the january 6th riot. Some protesters gathered inside but, they were over numbered by the media. Jack smith was there and seated just ten feet away from the former president. After trump pleaded not guilty, the judge issued what some experts say is a very unusual warning. She reminded trump that it is a crime to try to influence jurors or tampered with witnesses while out on release. Trump then flew back to new jersey right after the hearing but before he left town, he spoke out against the case. This is a very sad day for america. This is a persecution of a political opponent. This was never supposed to happen in america, so if you cant beat him he persecuted or you prosecute them. For factss sake, for the 100th time here on the show, were repeating the truth. Of course, joe biden did beat donald trump fair and square in the last election. That is what this whole thing is about. Trumps next hearing is set for august 28th before a different judge. Hes not required to be there but that is when the judge will set a date for this trial. With that, lets get smart with the help of our Leadoff Panel tonight. Ryan riley, just a departee for nbc news, he was in the corners today. Its not a new book coming out sedition hunters how january 6th broke the justice system. Carol leonnigs here, Pulitzer Prize Investigative Reporter with the Washington Post. And Christie Greenberg a former federal prosecutor and sdny Division Deputy chief. Mr. Ali, you are in the room so i must start with you. This is the 1079th Doj Case Related To January 6th and its fair to say, very, very few have been acquitted. So how does donald trump fit into all of this . He is about the 100th man whos been charged in the january six. Ive covered a lot of those cases. Its very rare for the fans to be fully quoted. There have been a number of cases including the two biggest cases that involved the proud boys and the oath keepers where defendants were acquitted on individual charges. I think thats going to be a strong argument for the Justice Department to put forward from this point on, because basically its pretty inevitable youre gonna see a filing from the trump folks saying they need a change of venue. They gotta do this summer else, that d. C. s two democratic. What dojs gonna do in order to make any other arguments he made in the january six cases, point to a lot of the outcomes in this trial. They barely educated these cases, when you have jurors swear an oath and say they will follow the facts and they will do that, they can clear biases aside, even though they might not love donald trump or his political beliefs. So i think that will be a strong indicator moving forward. Its something we expect will probably be rejected but it could cause somewhat of a delay in the case. By all indications, it seems the judge really wants to move this forward, both the Magistrate Judge who was referencing what the judge will ultimately take is going to say. They coordinated very closely and we are going to have a date set at that next hearing at the end of the month. Its a pretty quick timeline and they have been very clear, the Justice Department needs to put their proposal within seven days and there needs to be another proposal seven days down the road from the defense. All signs are pointing that they really want to get something on the calendar as soon as possible. Republican senators Lindsey Graham and ted cruz were two of the many voices who are saying this particular judge cannot be fair. The trial must be moved out of d. C. Except of course when this judge was confirmed, she was confirmed unanimously, meaning crews and graham confirmed urine. Former new york prosecutors civil rights eternity irregular on the show, one of our favorite experts charles conan. Charles what is your reaction to the judge hearing the need to warn donald trump against influencing jurors and Witness Tampering . If you ever seen anything like this before . Stephanie, i have not i think thats one of the most unique things about what we are talking about with respect to this arraignment. If your ask me what jumped out of me the most, its literally that. And all of my years as a prosecutor and subsequently defending defendants, i have never heard that any explicit charge or in a diamond, referring to Witness Tampering. The judge actually warned a witness about contacting other witnesses outside of the routine warnings that he might receive from your attorney. That was something that was particularly interesting that i noticed jumped out today at the reporting coming out of the hearings. The notice that this judge would say listen, you should not be having any contact with other witnesses who may be part of this trial other than who your attorneys. I thought that was very telling and very clear that she was in touch with Donald Trumps approach, regarding how hes been trying to influence the public narrative around his various arrests and indictments. Karen, you are outside the courthouse. What we remain takeaways . How eloquently some of the people out side, the photos and the supporters were in describing why they came out that night why, they came to this arraignment. Theres no question about it, weve all said it 1 million times, this isnt an unprecedented event. A former president now charged three different times with various crimes. But this one the most serious. Supporters of his were there to say, hey this is a political attempt on the final 11th hour as he campaigns for reelection to derail his effort, to stop him from returning to the white house. Meanwhile, i spoke with several people who have a Field Democracy is on the line, that they have been essentially waiting for the state with baited breath, for donald trump to be held responsible for what he did in the weeks after basically the election, starting on november 4th, and continuing on until january 6th. He pulled every lever he could in his office to try and stay in that office, to cling to power, and those folks are looking for him to be held responsible for the way he abused that office. Kristie, earlier tonight trump lawyer john lauro took to trumps favorite place cable news, to talk about the case. Watch. This they are attacking other parts of the constitution because they want to take President Trump to trial in a few months. They want to deny him his Sixth Amendment Rights to council, to give me in my cocounsel up an opportunity to prepare. They want to deny President Trumps due process rights, to look at documents, to get witnesses, to use our subpoena power. Hes essentially arguing against the government thats asking for a speedy trial. But there is no proof or evidence that the prosecutors are not giving him anything is there . Nothing is happening. So how is he gonna do that . Hes going to get discover, hes going to have time to review the discovery, hes gonna have time to make his motions. He is trying to argue his case in the court of Public Opinion. Its just nonsense. Everything that he said there has no basis in fact for anything that happened today at this core proceeding. But in some bizarre row world charles, does not make sense . Because the court of Public Opinion is what matters the most to trumps voters. And what he needs more than anything is to get the republic nomination because his ultimate defenses i got to get elected. Youre absolutely right stephanie. There is a strategy here that is important for us to understand. When you look at judge Aileen Cannon and the way that she set him up with the may 20, 2024 day. What she basically said to him is i can get you part of the way, but you gotta do the rest yourself. You gotta make sure the year ultimately the republican nominee, because that will give you new life in terms of this Election Tampering Argument hes been trying to make. The same thing is possibly true here. If donald trump can put himself in the position more public the narrative becomes a front runner very clearly, he has a viable or possibly viable argument in front of the court to say, listen the more we continue to press this is im the republican nominee in the front runner, not just during primary season, but during the actual generally election, there may be an argument the he may appeal, after several delays his attorney already talked about the notion of a change of any and how that may be coming. I suspect there will be other legal maneuvers to try to push this thing as far out as they can, so that ultimately they can make the argument that listen, donald trump is the general election nominee for the Republican Party, and therefore they should not go forward at the time. Thats their strategy because legally thats all they have. So i suspect theyre trying to enforce the public narrative, because in a way donald trump has to do his part to try to get him a valuable defense inside the court. We are talking about Aileen Cannon and the maralago course dave ryan. The next hearing for this is august 28th. Our friend Glenn Kirschner who knows the judge, judge chutkan he was overseeing this, when he described as a serious woman who does not play around. What should we expect . Thats right well Luck Of The Draw is that ending up with a judge whose only purpose on Multiplications Granby On what the Justice Departments request on january six, there were multiple cases where the governments at Home Detention is fine, maybe some probation, she said no theres gonna be some incarceration time involved with this. Thats not to say that she hasnt gone in other cases, january six, cases she hasnt from the book at everyone, she just individually looked at these cases altogether. But she takes january 6th extremely seriously. Shes very vocal about that from the bench as our number of other judges who handle these more than 1000 cases a day work their way through the system. At this point basically 300 people have been sentenced to periods of incarceration. As i said over 1000 people have been arrested, but theres a lot more ahead in these cases as well, thats one thing its gonna be very interesting. There will be these other cases that continue to turn to the system, because ultimately the fbi could charge 3000 people. They probably wont get to that number once the statute of limitations expired, but they very well could likely get to 2000 number by 2026. And jan donald trump is another one of these generous six defendants, having their case go through the federal court system here in d. C. What number did you say . 3000 . More than 3000 people could be charged, either people who entered the Capital Building or people who assaulted Law Enforcement officers outside the building. And hundreds have already been arrested and more than 1000 have not yet been charged. They just sort of sitting there on the plate for the fbi to get around two and for prosecutors to end up prosecuting in the end. There are about 1000 who i dont actually cant identify, but the fbi has some of them in their system. Theres basically 1000 cases, double what we have right now, sitting out there. Even if its 1000, so for those of you have Friends And Family saying in a home, like to say january six was just another day, remind them of those big numbers. Carol, donald trump is still the gop front runner. Theyll be out campaigning this weekend. How closely will the prosecutors and the judge be paying attention to what he says and does . I think judge chutkan will actually be watching him very closely, moderating through clerks in other ways. Jack smith and his team will as well. Lets be clear, Donald Trumps mastery of the megaphone is well known. The way that he has convinced so many people including people i interview today outside the courthouse, the way his convince people that there was fraud in this election, that there were somehow mysterious dead people voting and they were flipping for biden instead of for trump, the way he has done is by constantly grabbing that megaphone and reminding them, heres how it really went down you guys. Youre on my side, im on your side. There was fraud. I know who you wanted. They did not give you your president. That is a risk now that he will take to the airwaves, take to his Rally Stage Intel and tell people in some way or some fashion again that they have to quote unquote fight like hell for the country and come to his rescue. In his effort to avoid what he calls a persecution. Fight like hell for our country but remember he is being charged with trying to defraud it, you and me. Kristy, i want to share with you something we heard from fani willis, because we could be seeing a fourth indictment from her out of georgia. Watch this. There are some people who say that they were already about three indictments against the former president. They argue that even if there were crimes committed here in Fulton County, a fourth indictment is not worth all the work that would come with it. To people that say that, what would you say . That i took an oath and the oath requires i follow the law, and that if someone broke the law in Fulton County georgia, that i have a duty to prosecute. Thats exactly what i plan to do. What do you think we will see in coming weeks . I think you are going to see a sprawling and i10 from fani willis. She has sent targets letters to over a dozen named individuals, not just donald trump can you remind our audience what that means . So, a Target Letter is simply her letting that individual knew that she has got the goods on them. That they have she had substantial evidence that they have committed a crime. You dont send those letters lightly, particularly to the former president of the United States and his close allies. So, she is a rico expert, she has hired a rico expert on her staff, shes been investigating this case for over two and a half years. Expect her to swing for the fences and hit home run with sprawling rico indictment of many individuals, not just donald trump. Does trumps actions in georgia played a role in jack smiths investigation . How much more can we learn from fani willis . I do think that fani willis s indictment when it does come down is going to be illuminating on a number of different aspects that we dont currently know about specifically what happened in georgia. I think theres gonna be a lot of overlap in terms of the information that weve seen what is ultimately presented, but i think theres also gonna be introduction of witnesses that we may not necessarily have heard from from jack smith s indictment as of yet. What i see expect we will see is a blending of a complete narrative that actually tells in a much more detailed story with respect to how donald trump violated the law specifically in georgia. Many of the facts will be repeated. We know about the call to Secretary Of State brad other players may have been involved in georgia that jack smith may not necessarily move forward on. We can hear a lot more on that its gonna give us a very, very robust picture on that that will paint a clear narrative about just how deep this rabbit whole goes in georgia. That, of course, is a investigation, because at this point, weve got three criminal trials and this former president is charged with 78 separate counts, ryan. Today, in the courthouse a whole group of federal judges showed up just to watch the hearing today. How unusual is that . Very strange. Actually, it was interesting, actually, just because this hearing itself took place in the chief judges courtroom, even though thats who wasnt overseeing, it was a federal Magistrate Judge who was overseeing this official proceeding. Any reason that was does, because of the Av Capabilities that they have their. They can live stream it to other parts of the courtroom. And that courtroom itself, you had several judges, he had judges go into from what i understand my colleague Glenn Kirchner individuals went into those Overflow Rooms themselves. But it was a definitely an interesting day in court. He had some of the these january hearings of the january six defendants durango, including a cop will be prosecuted next week with the sister, who uses the nword in some of his communications about that day or admitted in some of those Communications Going inside the capitol, photos of himself inside the capitol, and then ended up being identified along with his sister and the civil trial. A Status Conference or preparation for that trial went forward today. Theres another case that was put on pause, that there was not a hearing that went forward. That was involving an actor from Arrested Development that was arrested in california a little while back. These cases are going to continue to churn and obviously theres a lot of interest in this ongoing proceeding here. Interesting day in court. A story. Without a doubt ryan j. Reilly, carol leonnig, charles coleman, kristy greenberg, great to see you here for the first time on the 11th hour. I hope you come back soon. Thank you. When we come back, we are going to get a little serious, maybe solemn. Some of the officers who defended the capitol on january six, they showed up today. They were sitting there in the courthouse, because they wanted to witness firsthand Donald Trumps arraignment. We will be speaking to Sergeant Aquilino Gonell about what it was like for him in that hearing. And if he thinks we are any closer to real accountability. And later, after trumps latest indictment, some republicans are now accusing President Biden of wrongdoing. Weve got two allstar reporters to break through all of that noise and set the record straight. The 11th hour just getting underway on thursday night. N thursday Night Sleepovers just arent what they used to be. A house full of screens . Basically no hiccups . You guys have no idea how good youve got it. How old are you . Like, 80 . Back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. We dont get scared. Oh, really . Mom can see your search history. Thats what i thought. Introducing the next generation 10g network. Only from xfinity. Sleepovers just arent what they used to be. A house full of screens . Basically no hiccups . You guys have no idea how good youve got it. How old are you . Like, 80 . Back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. We dont get scared. Oh, really . Mom can see your search history. Thats what i thought. Introducing the next generation 10g network. Only from xfinity. Five. Its happening, isnt it . Four. Three. Two. One. Thinking, i need to survive this. If possible but i am willing to sacrifice myself to prevent this, the attackers from coming in. They were calling us traitors. Even though they were the ones who are committing the treasonous act that day. It was an attempted coup that was happening at the capitol that day. If it had been another country, the u. S. Would have sent help. Two years after that powerful testimony, Sergeant Gonell was in the courthouse today for Donald Trumps arraignment. He released a statement earlier that said in part, this. Our democracy is worth fighting for. Not prosecuting is far riskier and having no consequences for the alleged power grab attempts. Justice and the rule of law must win for our democracy to survive. Id like to welcome former police sgt aquilino gonell. He defended the Capitol On January 6th and resigned from the force because of the injuries he suffered on that day. Hes also the author of the book, american shield, the american sergeant who defended democracy. Sergeant, thank you so much for being here and staying up this late on a day that had to have been very emotional for you. What was it like to be in that courthouse . Thanks for having me. It was very emotional in the way of that it was a sad day for our country, as a solemn moment that it was expected, it needed to be done. We waited for more than two years and a half for this moment, in a way trying to hold those accountable who perpetrated or orchestrated the attack. With the alleged indictment, the indictment the alleged action of the former president its very damning. Most of the witnesses that had been corroborating all of these action or inaction that he did or didnt do had been republicans themselves, people who ease he surrounded himself with as he alleges he knows all the best people. These are the best people testifying against himself. When you resigned from the force, you said you needed time to heal mentally and physically. After seeing the wheels of justice slowly start to move on a day like this, how are you feeling inside . Mentally i have healed a lot. Its like nine days from the time the january six happened until now i have been able to focus on, to heal with the help and support and help of my family, Mental Health therapy, physical therapy. Most of my injuries have healed to the best they can. I still have some medications. Im able to do a lot of things with my left arm, to include now doing physical activities. Something that i was thinking i would never be able to do again. Exercising, which is something that i do in a regular basis. Normally, i am still distraught. I still have those moral injuries, because its some of the same people that i risked my life and for my colleagues, defending the indefensible. When you have people, officials, president from the republican side, down plain and minimizing and excusing the behavior, the alleged misconduct of the former president , and then tell us that they support us, the police officer, is where the rule of law, or law an order, we backed the blue, things like that. And then, yet, they call those people who assaulted us, in full uniform on january 6th, even with the american flag, and then they come back, and turn around, these were peaceful, it was political discourse. These were the patriots, as if we, the police officers, where the bad guys of that day. Last time i checked, we were the authority, we had the authority to be there, not the rioters, themselves. What is your message to those people, those republicans, who downplay january 6th, who will defend donald trump no matter what, even after these extraordinary charges against him . Well, the irony is that they themselves were the target of the mob. I risked my life trying to prevent them harm and i paid with my body, i put my life on the line. And i nearly did lose my life on multiple occasions to those people who continue to the former president and is alleged actions on january 6th, i asked them, would they be okay with joe biden, president joe biden, and Vice President kamala harris, doing the same thing in january 2025 . Would they be okay with the incumbent president right now trying to stay in power . I think that they wouldnt agree with that. I think they would try to impeach him. I think they would try to get the Justice Department to hold him accountable, and so do i. My understanding, growing up and been here for more than 30 years and risking my life defending this country, both overseas and here, on january 6th, is that nobody in this country is above the law. And today, we were witness to the beginning in hoping that the former president now will have his days in court. And today was a good start. Well, im glad you got to be there and i appreciate you joining us tonight, sergeant, thank. You thanks for having me. Were gonna take a quick commercial break. You can get a drink, hit the restroom, but come right back. Because you need to see this next segment. We are debunking the lies that the farright is trying to tell comparing President Biden and his son to the former president s criminal charges when the 11th hour continues. 11th hour continues if you ask a lot of Republican Leaders about donald trump indicted for trying to overturn the results of an election while he was in office, they will probably redirect the conversation to President Bidens son, hunter biden, who doesnt work in our government. We have seen it for months. And now this third Trump Indictment has started a new wave of whataboutism from the gop. For instance, here is what house gop Conference Chair at least to phonic had to say after the indictment. Quote, today chairman dimon of donald trump is yet another desperate attempt to distract attention away from the mounting evidence of joe bidens direct involvement in his familys illegal influence petit jean scream, one of the greatest political corruption scandals in history. Okay, i want to be crystal clear. There is absolutely no equivalency here. And if we do not clarify that, we will see the narrative to those who are lying about it. So were gonna set the record straight. Back with me tonight, peter baker, chief White House Correspondent for the New York Times and philip bump, Washington Post national columnist. Peter, at least to phonics as quote, there is mounting evidence that joe biden was directly involved in a legal meddling scheme. Can you factchecked foot that for us . Is there any evidence of that . No, there is not anything that would be convincing there. There are some wish here or there that people are trying to pursue, but the truth is, at this point, theres nothing like that. What we see in front of us, you know, can be a scandal, can be a thing that should be scrutinized, and it is in fact being investigated whether or not under biden traded on his family name. Its an important issue. But theres no evidence, even if he did, and we dont know its still unsettled in any court of law. But even if he did, there is no evidence that the Vice President , that is, his father, even when he was Vice President , use the power of his office to benefit his sons Business Clients or anything like that. Now, you know, we dont have a complete and full picture of exactly what involvement if any his father had with his business dealings. The Vice President , now president , said he never spoke with his son about his business dealings. Theres been some testimony that his son, you know, put his dad on the phone to try an impressive Business Clients, even if he didnt actually talk about business. Obviously, thats something that people would want to know about. Thats a reasonable thing to look at and make a judgment about. But it doesnt come any close to the things were talking about what were talking about president. Trump its really an apples and oranges comparison. Here President Trumps been confused of falsifying Business Records in new york in order to have a cover up the hush money to a porn star, hes been accused of jeopardizing National Security through classified documents and obstructing justice in florida, and hes now been accused of trying to overturn an election which no sitting president ever try to do. Close to talking about hunter biden. But its a useful political argument for the republicans to try to change the subject to try to shift attention, and try to make out the idea that theres a two tier justice system, that somehow victimizing former president and. Trump republicans are making a lot of claims based on what a man named david archer, a former associate of hunter biden, said in a closed tone or hearing on the hill. Philip, we had a chance to see the transcript, and we learned a lot. Walk us through this, because based on what weve read, none of what republicans are claiming this. True yeah, peter summary there was excellent. He articulated the distinction between what joe bidens been accused of and whats actually present in the wrecker. Devin archer went on the hill and in this closeddoor session was grilled in front of us to get it for congress. He revealed this issue about having, you know, joe biden being put on speakerphone in this meetings and stuff. The challenge that we have is immediately after that hearing, two prominent congressional republicans, jim jordan from ohio, and james comer from kentucky, when i get on hannitys Fox News Program and immediately made up fox false claims about what he said. Exaggerate what he said. Which is been a pattern with james comer. Introduce this whole bribery, thing for which theres been no evidence. They claim the david archer has essentially, given the game away. He had gotten joe biden Dead To Rights on the staff. Those arent the exact words. But thats the implication of the staff. Then we get david archers actual testimony. He says that yes, i had no knowledge of joe biden ever been involved in this. I saw hunter biden explicitly saying, hey look, my dads not vaulted this, but we need to fool people in the Think Hearing that he has good thats where a cloud come from. For those people to say, oh, this Phone Conversation Thing is prove that joe biden is involved, but then to ignore what david archer is saying. Actually, i didnt see him involved at all. Thats thoroughly dishonest, and thats a pattern we keep seeing. What do we do with that, peter . Theyre going on National News and absolutely line when what the transcript basically said was, its a couple of cheesy Business Guys trying to bait and switch. And the former Vice President , now president , didnt have anything to do with that. But youve got millions of people watching fox news in gop circles, who are out there going well, trumps a criminal, bidens or criminal. And none of the facts are bearing out, at least not at this point. Yeah, thats exactly what republicans would like to do with this by saying everybody does the same thing, the water is muddy here, and so dont pay much attention to this. Obviously, these are not the same issues. That shouldnt lead hunter biden off the hook. If he has been, you know, involved in any wrongdoing, investigators are looking at that. So far, the only thing hes actually been charged with our two misdemeanor tax charges, which hes gonna plead guilty to once they iron out some legal disputes over the plea agreement, and a gun charge, which is going to be dismissed if he goes to a diversion program. But we dont know if theres gonna be anything else. Again, that still an apples and oranges situations here. But its a useful Political Tool for republicans. Because they can say well, donald trump is being persecuted for his crimes. Somehow, hunter biden isnt. The differences are remarkable the hunter biden is being investigated by a trump appointed u. S. Joe bidens administration, the Justice Department, allowed him to keep in that job when they came and rather than look like they were trying to get favoritism to the president son. And david weiss is saying no, he hasnt been interfered with, even there are some grumbling among some of the investigators that he was. Thats a very different situation that were talking about with donald trump, where youve had three different prosecutions on three different rather serious and remarkably serious charges here. Remember, of course, as you said at the top, hunter bidens, not was not, and will not be the president United States. While President Trump was, and wants to be. Again he doesnt have security clearance. Not even close. Hes the president son. Philip, i want you to factcheck Something Else for us. Because, today i had several gop sources quick to send me New York Post articles. New york post reporting right wing is trying to make a big deal out of a letter, a letter that joe biden wrote it to an associative hunters can you give us the truth about this famed letter . Give us th right, so this letr apparently 2011 and so, 12 years ago. Immediately followed president obama chinese premier to the white house and apparently devin archer and hunter biden who were i guess, queens is at that point, and im not sure if they were business in business at that point in time thank how to joe biden and joe biden had not our trust at the subsequent letter to tied up with the chinese premier, right, sort of obviously tongueincheek. Thats it, right . But its on the front page of the New York Post. This is one of the fascinating things about this to me is the existence of anything that mentions devin archer is immediately see the font as evidence as some sort of wrong doing on the part of the violence bidens its this letter. Theres nothing about business. Its obviously to someone who son is acquainted with or sorry to happen so mentioned shine exactly. But you know this Tucker Carlson devon archer theres nothing of substance to it. If the same thing we keep hearing about people just elevate and say, oh, look this exists and therefore, its evidence to my point. So, its like, read it or watch the interview and see. But people just dont do. That thats part of why this gets distracted. Its also why youre reporting philip, your reporting peter, are so crucially important. Because the truth matters, but only if you hear it. And im so grateful that youre both covering it, because it matters. Coming up, we have seen the facts, but it seems many republicans are tuning out the truth. Is it going to come back to bite them . Well get into all of that when the 11th hour continues. Ntinues. [ Tires Screeching ] jordana, easy on the gas. I gotta wrap this commercial, i think im late on my payment. Its okay, the general gives you a break. Yeah, we let you pick your own due date. Good to know, because this next scene might take a while. For a great low rate, go with the general. We have spent the last hour laying out all the facts around the arraignment of donald trump. But we dont know how those facts will play out politically, or if anyone in the trump bubble is ever going to hear them. So lets get into it with symone sanderstownsend, former spokeswoman for Vice President harris and host of the symone on msnbc and peacock, and tim miller, former Communications Director for jeb bush. Tim, you know the republicans like to call themselves the party of law and order. At this point their front runner had to be told by a judge, do not commit anymore crimes. Republicans are making a choice by standing by this guy. If it backfires in the general election, wont that be on them, an indictment on republicans for choosing him . Yes. I think its line order for the but not for me kind of situation here. Were talking about certain times of criminals talking about law and order, wink wink, i dont think were talking about republican white collar white guys who are trying to do insurrections. Thats not what they mean when they talk about law and order. I think this definitely has ramifications, political consequences. Youre leading republicans talking about defunding the police now, the federal police, the doj, the fbi, wanting to dismantle them. This is the kind of stuff that is playing very well in the republican echo chambers. But it is certainly going to reverberate against them come next fall if they really nominee this guy. Symone, ivan if Republican Leadership knows in their hearts and minds that it is too risky to back this guy given the legal problems he has ahead of him, are they just trapped . Because donald trump is never going to back out of this race or at the very least, hes never gonna tell his supporters to back anyone but him. So hes got to either be the nominee or hell spoil it for anyone else. Stephanie ruhle, i think this is the analysis, not just a analysis, but the analysis. I think the problem here is that i have never had the privilege of advising republican president ial campaigns, and i defer to my good friend tim miller here, ive only had previously worked for the democrats. But i just want to note that look there was an opportunity long time ago prior to this president ial campaign of Donald Trumps where republicans couldve stood up and taken a stand. The Republican Party leadership, the apparatus, the elected officials, many of the donors, republicans of note, they did not do that. They instead decided to say look, were going to go with our nominee. You know what people say. Republicans fall in line. Cant complain. Well republicans did what they did. They fell in line. They did a lot of things frankly that they wanted out of a trump administration. There were a number of things that no one asked for nor anticipated that also came with it. And i think that was a fundamental issue here, and so now were in a place, collectively, where obviously republicans know that donald trump is not going to be a good general action candidate. Democrats know don trump isnt going to be a good general election candidate. And Everybody Knows that, you know, i think we can agree as americans, insurrection is a good, Thing Overturning the election is not a good thing. If you lost, you lost. But people didnt do that. There should be consequences. But the problem is the people, i many of the people in the republican base, or with President Trump and now the leadership of the apparatus, they cannot turn away. They miss the opportunity. Tim, for years we have been asking, when is the george bush wing of the party going to reclaim it . If they do not do it now and a guy charged with conspiring to defraud the country gets the nomination, is it fair to say your Republican Party aint never coming back . I think it already is not coming back. I think the time to do that was january 7th of 2021. So i have to agree with symone on this. The day they decided not to convict donald trump of the obvious times he committed crowd crimes that he committed, sticking the mob on the capitol. Mitch mcconnell marco rubio, Lindsey Graham and they all got together and said, guys who, made a bed on the sky and caused five deaths at the capitol, and its time to move on and get our party back. Had they done that, we would have to worry about all we will be talking about Donald Trumps today we wouldnt be talking about his politics, because he would be barred from running, the senate had that. Power they didnt do it. So, i think its over. The people that are gettable from the george w. Bush wing our Minority Party and many of the rest of us have left the party. Wasnt it january 6th or seventh when Lindsey Graham got in front of everybody. He may have been tear fills and said donald trump is to blame any pointing the finger at him, blaming him for january six, and then the next day a bunch of Trump Supporters yelled at him in an airport so he said forget it. I still love that guy. And i think thats what happened. Symone sanderstownsend, tim miller, thank you so much for closing out the show on this very important night. On that on that note, i wish you all a very good night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. Ill see you at the end of tomorrow. Mmm, popcorn. alternate voice denture disaster, darling we need poligrip before crispy popcorn. regular voice lets fix this. alternate voice poligrip power hold seal gives our strongest hold and 5x food seal. If your mouth could talk, it would ask for. Poligrip. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Well, as you see, they caught him. They got him. They finally got the guy. After over two and a half years, the man responsible for the attempted January 6th Coup was taken into federal custody in washington, d. C. Of course, weve known all along just who the Prime Suspect was who we should be on