plus, we're learning more about the failed plea agreement for hunter biden and the questions raised by the judge in that case. and also ahead we'll bring you new reporting on a private meeting between president biden and former president obama over concerns over the 2024 election. good morning and welcome to "way too early" on this thursday, august 3rd. i'm jonathan lemire. we've got a big day ahead. thanks for starting it with us. we'll begin in the nation's capitol where just down the street from where he was inaugurated back in 2017, the former president donald trump will be criminally charged today for allegedly trying to disrupt the same government he once swore an oath to protect. around 4:00 this afternoon, trump will be arraigned in d.c. federal court on four felony charges stemming from his alleged efforts to block the peaceful transition of power following his loss in the 2020 election. the charges are conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, and then conspiracy against rights. members of the washington, d.c. police department among those violently attacked by trump supporters on january 6, 2021, could be seen setting up security barriers outside the courthouse last night ahead of the former president's arrival. trump for his part is already calling for the case to be moved out of the district of columbia, claiming it will be impossible to get a fair trial in the nation's capitol. on his fledgling social media site last night, trump suggested moving the proceedings to the, quote, politically unbiased state of west virginia. west virginia, though, has absolutely no connection to the new charges against the former president, and we should note he won that state in a landslide twice. ahead of trump's first court appearance, his attorney is already offering a possible glimpse at what the former president's defense might be. speaking to nbc's savannah guthrie on the "today" show yesterday, john laura argued that trump was simply exercising his first amendment right by raising concerns about the 2020 election and was adjust following the advice of his lawyers when he falsely claimed that former vice president mike pence has the power to block the certification of the election result on january 6th. >> this is the first time that the first amendment has been criminalized. it's the first time that a sitting president is attacking a political opponent on first amendment grounds and basically making it criminal to state your position and to engage in political -- >> let me give a little time out on that one. well, the indictment specifically says that the president had a first amendment right to speech. he even had the first amendment right to lie. it says it right here. this indictment is criminalizing conduct, not speech. >> what president trump had was an actual opinion of counsel that his request to vice president pence was completely lawful and completely constitutional. >> he also had many -- in his own white house counsel that was not legal. >> you're entitled to believe and trust advice of counsel. >> well-done, savannah. during another interview on cnn last night trump's attorney general bill barr weighed in on this latest indictment as well as trump's possible defense. >> as the indictment says, you know, they're not attacking his first amendment right. he can say whatever he wants, he can even lie, he can even tell people that the election was stolen when he knew better, but that does not protect you from entering into a conspiracy. all conspiracies involve speech. and all fraud involve speech. so, you know, free speech doesn't give you the right to engage in a fraudulent conspiracy. >> is it a credible defense to say he was just listening to john eastman? >> i don't think that dog is going to hunt, as you say. first, as the people who had some knowledge whether or not there was fraud, everyone was telling him that the election was not stolen by fraud. and then as for the issue of what he could do legally at that point, he went through all the -- he wouldn't listen to all the lawyers in the department who -- in various departments or the white house who had the responsibilities or his campaign. he would search for a lawyer who would give him the advice he wanted, but i'm not even sure you would characterize what eastman said as advice. i don't think his defense of advice of counsel is going to go forward, but i think the president would have to get on the stand or subject himself to cross-examination in order to raise that, and he'd also have to waive attorney-client privilege. >> and what would happen if he got on the stand? >> i think -- look, it would not come out very well for him. >> you think it would hurt him? >> oh, yes. yes. >> not mincing words there. joining us now state attorney for paul beach county, dave, aaronburg. let's start with that opinion from bill barr. he weighed in on the charges. if this case does indeed go to trial we think some time next year, what are the chances we see someone like bill barr and other trump appointed former officials, could be former cabinet members sitting across the courtroom from their former boss testifying against him? >> good morning, jonathan. i think it's very likely the way to show trump's corrupt attempt is either through trump's own words or what he was told. there's not a lot in the indictment of trump's own words but there is a lot of what he was told. told by top officials, even republicans. john eastman said it's okay and sydney powell said it's okay and rudy giuliani said it's okay. well, two of those are considered part of team crazy and eastman even admitted in private meetings his theories were at best untested and at worst totally unconstitutional. he doesn't have as many great defenses. as bill barr said if trump want to go down that road and say it's a counsel defense or i have first amendment protection, he's got to testify and take the stand and that's walking into a perjury trap. i think jack smith has the former president into a bit of a trick bag here. >> yeah, no question trump's best defense would require him to be on the stand. we know how that's gone in the past. let's talk about trump's calender is obviously filling up quickly, and we should never lose sight of the fact all these legal proceedings come in the backdrop of the campaign as i'm sure he's going to be moving rally site to rally site next year. what's your best sequencing of these trials? we know about the one in new york. we can only speculate about the one in georgia. we have the two federal cases, classified documents and now this one on attempts to overturn the election. what do you think that counter is going to look like? >> in a recent interview alvin bragg, the d.a. in manhattan said he'd be willing to step aside for the fed. if the fed's want to take a case for us we let them. if they want to go first we let them. jack smith wants this case to be first. you know how i know that? it's because donald trump was the only one charged in this indictment. there are six other unindicted coconspirators. make no mistake their day of reckoning is coming. but jack smith wants this case to go first, and i think it will because it's in the d.c. circuit where you have an experienced judge, judge chutkan who will have zero-tolerance at trump's attempts at delay. meanwhile you've got judge cannon who i think will grant trump his many request for delays, and i think the documents case will go after the election. i think this case will go first and then i think you'll see the state cases and i think you'll see after the election the documents case. >> the documents case for now set for may, but as you said real chance that could slide. last one and quickly, we're already hearing from trump's team about pushing for a change of venue. they're suggesting the deep red state of west virginia. what do you think of this argument? are there chances we move out of d.c.? and if so, where? >> no i don't think it's funny trump says we should move it to a neutral site like west virginia, perhaps we should have a neutral judge like judge aileen. this judge has weighed in on trump before. she said that presidents are not kings. you can see why trump is very nervous right now. >> all right, well all eyes will be on that courthouse in washington, d.c. at 4:00 today. we of course will have much more on that here on "way too early" and all day long on msnbc. state attorney for palm beach county, thank you for joining us this morning. still ahead here the gunman convicted of killing 11 worshippers at a pennsylvania synagogue back in 2018 has now been sentenced to death. we'll go over what took place in the courtroom yesterday. plus the latest on the war in ukraine as russia steps up attacks on grain ports and other key infrastructure. those stories and a check on weather when we come right back. five... -it's happening, isn't it? 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basically no hiccups? you guys have no idea how good you've got it. how old are you? like, 80? back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. we don't get scared. oh, really? mom can see your search history. that's what i thought. introducing the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity. welcome back, and now to some other news making headlines. the man who killed 11 worshippers at a pits grg synagogue five years ago will be formally sentenced to death today. a jury yesterday returned a unanimous decision in favor of the death penalty. nbc news correspondent kathy park has more. >> reporter: jurors unanimously handing down a death sentence for robert bowers, who carried out the worst anti-semitic attack in u.s. history coming nearly two months after the jury found bower guilty for hate incrimes for the murders of 11 worshippers at the tree of life synagogue in 2018. bowers hardly reacted to the verdict while survivors and family members of the victims say this day brings a measure of peace. >> i feel like a weight has been lifted and i can breathe a sigh of relief. >> reporter: in the same room where they waited for updates for loved ones on the day of the shooting, the group reunited again and found comfort in each other. >> we're all members of a club we never chose to be members of, but we're all bonded for the rest of our lives. >> reporter: carol black survived the bloodshed by hiding behind a metal door but lost her brother in the attack. if you can sum up in one word your emotion when the verdict was read what would that be? >> relief. they came to the proper decision in my opinion. >> reporter: bower's defense team pointed to his troubled past, but prosecutors reminded jurors of the 11 lives violently stolen nearly five years ago, replaying chilling 911 calls from inside a synagogue that day, as he gunned down worshippers. >> the evidence in this trial proves that the defendant acted because of white supremacist, anti-semitic, and bigoted views. turning overseas now, ukraine says its capital of kyiv was targeted by drones for the eighth consecutive evening last night and that each drone was shot down without causing any real damage. meanwhile yesterday russia continued to target ukrainian port cities and vital infrastructure again striking the city of odesa. russia also shelled a ukrainian port on the river that borders romania. the ap reports there are three ukrainian ports in operation along that river. russia has intensified its attacks on ukrainian ports seized and infrastructure since it pulled out of the black sea grain deal last week. elsewhere, we're learning new details about that failed plea deal involving president biden's son, hunter biden. the judge in the criminal proceeding against hunter biden granted nbc news' request to have the plea agreement be made public. the documents provide detailed accounts of the cases surrounding the criminal charges with facts agreed to by hunter biden's lawyers and federal prosecutors in the state of delaware. the plea deal called for hunter biden to plead guilty to two counts of failing to pay his taxes in return for prosecutors recommending a sentence of probation. a separate gun charge would have been dropped in two years if hunter biden honored the terms of what's known as a diversion agreement. but the deal ended up being scrapped at least temporarily because of questions the judge raised last week in court about the proposed agreement. representatives for the delaware-u.s. attorneys office and hunter biden did not immediately respond to request for comment. it's not quite clear when they'll be back in court some time in the weeks ahead. still ahead we'll take a look at sports, a surge on the north side of chicago. we'll have the highlights for a historic win for the cubs at wriggly. plus, we'll show you what happens when you put a regular person up against olympic sprinters. it's a video that's getting a lot of attention on social media. we'll bring it to you straight ahead. media. we'll bring it to you straight ahead. he 13th. now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. (vo) verizon small business days are coming. from august 7th to the 13th. now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. center field and back some more. he'll turn, he'll look. it's out of here! oh, baby, on its way. out of here. >> we've got a total of 832 feet of home runs for ian last night. as chicago erased a pair of three run deficits in yet another lopsided win over the cincinnati reds, this one 16-6. the north siders with 145 runs, 36 of them scored over the last two games. the cubs are now 12 and 3 and now sit just two games back in the last column of the milwaukee brewers and cincinnati reds there in the national legal central. new york yankees say that pitcher domingo german has voluntarily entered in patient treatment for alcohol abuse. the team has placed german on the restricted list and the general manager said yesterday he won't pitch again this season. german who tossed the 28th perfect game in major league baseball this summer has had trouble on and off the field since his major league debut six years ago. he was suspended for ten games in may after an objection for using a sticky substance on the mound and also served an 81-game ban over his career over an alleged domestic violence incident. meanwhile his team finally got a win. a 7-2 victory over the tampa bay rays. cole notched his tenth of the season while anthony you'll see here over the wall in right. new york five run third inning. the rays maintain a 1 1/2 game deficit to the boston orioles. the orioles did lose last night to it toronto blue jays. we've been waiting all morning to bring you this, an embarrassing moment at a track competition in china this week has led to a suspension from a somali athletics official and an apology from that country's minister. an untrained and nonathlete runner was sent to take part in the women's 100 meter race on tuesday. oh, no, you're seeing it here. the sprinter in question lagged behind the rest of the field throughout the entire race and finished almost a full 10 seconds behind the last person to cross the finish line. watch it here. the race is over, everyone is celebrating. now the other participant can finish. angie lassman is having a hard time not laughing throughout this whole segment. there have been allegations the 20-year-old competitor was the relative of a now suspended official. you're going to have a hard time doing the report. what happened? >> listen, i don't want it to see like i'm laughing at her, but if we all go up against the world's greatest sprinters i think -- >> i was a bit of a high school college sprinter, but at this point in my life i know better than to get on the track right there. i'd like to keep 7 or 8 seconds behind. we keep watching it. oh, no, it's over early. >> all right, 50 million people included in these heat alerts this morning. no surprise this is the kind of rinse and repeat forecast we've seen for parts of the south. remains triple digit temperatures into the afternoon not just today but into tomorrow, too. el paso hits 106. 103 will potentially be a record high for this date in houston. and we'll round out our workweek with 108 in el paso, blowing the record out of the water if we make it there. 105 for dallas and 102 for houston. not much of a break from the heat there. parts of the north and north east kind of the low 80s for places like new york, 90s in cincinnati and low to mid-80s as we head into the weekend for chicago. nice conditions there, but we're also dealing with flood concerns and that stretches as drenching rains focus through missouri, illinois, kentucky, and indiana. after this batch of rain moves through we do have the flood watches and warnings in effect, and this is going to start to move slowly to the north east and impact with heavy rain and potentially causing flooding and north east remain unsettled, too. just watch and don't drive through those flooded roadways. we'll also have a chance to see the storms too as we get through today. >> angie lassman, thank you. i'll see you on the track later. still ahead here on "way too early," mike pence offers harsh criticism against his former boss. what pence is say about the latest indictment against former president trump when we come right back. against former president trump when we come right back ♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪ [coughing] ♪ ...by, you know how i feel. ♪ if you're tired of staring down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand, and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy, and save at trelegy.com (fisher investments) in this market, you'll find fisher investments is different than other money managers.-daily trelegy, (other money manager) different how? 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(fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. i did have hearing aids from another company... i was just frustrated... i almost gave up. with miracle ear it's all about service. they're personable... they're friendly. i'm very happy with them. we provide you with a free lifetime of aftercare. meaning free checkups, cleanings, and adjustments. i see someone new... someone happy... it's really made a difference. call miracle ear at 1-800-miracle and schedule your free, no obligation hearing evaluation today. welcome back to "way too early." it is 5:30 a.m. on the east coast, 2:30 out west. i'm jonathan lemire. thanks for being with us. former vice president mike pence yesterday gave one of his strongest criticisms yet of donald trump while he addressed the former president's latest indictment. in an interview with fox news pence was asked about an e-mail detailed in the indictment that was sent to his staff by trump attorney john eastman. in the message eastman asks pence to, quote, consider one more relatively minor violation of the electoral count act and adjourn the certification of the election for ten days. donald trump's attorney on tuesday claimed the former president only asked pence to, quote, simply pause the voting. here's what pence had to say about that. >> let's be clear on this point it wasn't just say asked for a pause. the president specifically asked me and his gaggle of crack pot lawyers asked me to literally reject votes, which would have resulted in the issue being turned over to the house of representatives and literally chaos would have ensued. >> mike pence continues to be very, very right about january 6th. we should note that. joining us now is national politics reporter for the hill, julia manchester. you've been covering all these 2024 gop hopefuls. give us a sampling how they've been reacting to indictment. >> good morning, jonathan. with ron desantis and tim scott we have heard them really echo the message they've said before about these indictments, talking ability how there's a double standard between now the justice department and/or how they see the justice department treating republicans versus democrats. now, of course, donald trump's legal problems are happening as president biden's son, hunter biden, also facing his own legal issues. you see some of these candidates like ron desantis very much trying to draw that parallel saying there's a double standard at play. and we've seen desantis release a plan saying he would eventually revamp or retool the justice department so there isn't a bias. for someone like nikki haley she's said very much in the past and warned trump's legal problems could come back to bite republicans if all we're talking about this election cycle especially in a general election are these indictments. but, jonathan, i think one thing that's really looming across all these republican candidates and the ones aren't as critical of president trump and his legal issues the base generally believes the justice department has wronged donald trump. they're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place because they don't want to tick off donald trump and his supporters, but at the same time they want to be able to leapfrog ahead of him in the polls. >> and we're seeing now trump's efforts paying dividends, years worth of trying to down-play of what happened on january 6th and make these accusations of doj bias, so many republican voters simply buy it. as you laid out nicely there the conundrum these republicans are in theirsemicly reluctant to criticize trump. is anyone trying to make the case of, hey, we love trump, yeah, he's being wronged here, it's all a witch hunt. that said, look, it's going to hurt him, you know, he can't get elected next fall? >> yeah, we've seen a number of candidates allude to that like nikki haley, for example, when she said, look, we can't keep talking about this, we need to talk about the so-called kitchen table issues. we also heard ron desantis talk about why he's the best choice without maybe mentioning donald trump by name. the problem with that, though, is that they're still being forced to confront this issue of donald trump and in a way talk about him and look what we're doing here, we're talking about donald trump. all day today we'll be talking about donald trump. donald trump will be getting lots of -- free earned media, if you will, on tv while these other candidates will have to fight for that same kind of coverage while he sucks up all the oxygen in the room. so very difficult position they've been put in especially when so many of them even ron desantis hares been in a consistent second place are so far behind donald trump in the polls. >> it's a great point. trump has indeed taken all the air in this race, maybe that gop debate in a few weeks will be time for someone else to break through. julia manchester, thank you as always. we'll speak to you again down the road. still ahead here cnbc will join us live with this morning's business headlines as well as an early look at the markets which are still as you can see in the red following a downgrade of the united states' credit rating. we'll get more insight on that next. that next ugh, this guy again... pops! ay son! ya got a little somethin' on yuh face. needed a quick shave. quick shave? 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you may pay as little as $10 per prescription. welcome back. time now for business, and for that let's bring in cnbc's arabile gumede who joins us live from london. arabile, good morning. traders are gearing up for more economic data today including weekly jobless claims. we just saw the red on the board. what's the sense of how the day's going to go? >> yeah, so it looks like another day of negativity, right? it's day two of that fitcheraltying downgrade which has unfortunately brought negative income sentiment into this picture. but overall there's been earnings news. qualcomm pointing to weaker demand for their chips there, which has unfortunately upset quite a few stocks in the market. nvidia taking a hit and amd taking a hit. this morning out in europe their results coming out and pointing toward demand as well as the smart phone chip market not necessarily coming online. so that has hampered a few of the chip stocks. that's why you even saw the likes of the nasdaq drop more than 2% yesterday. then losing out in 47 sessions of not losing more than 1% of gains there. so a clearly negative picture anticipated across today as well. >> so continues the earning season and nin tendy continues a surge. tell us more from the japanese video game giant. >> what a bumper, bumper quarter it certainly was, right? so 3.19 million switch consoles being sold by nintendo. that was on the back of the swrelda game which has done fair lewell. and the super mario movie has brought sales up. the big question are all these gains going to be sustainable for the longer term for this company again. it is about ensuring the entity gathers around this boom right now and how far they can actually go with all this. certainly the super mario movie has helped them quite significantly. will it help the consoles continue their uptick as we've seen as the zelda games has done with the switch and the like. for now, though, no change, however in its guidance is the picture for beating revenue estimates. >> last one for you, arabile, market expectations split over the bank of england's next monetary policy move. that's going to come later today. what should we be looking for? >> yeah, we're following this one quite significantly. a 25 basis point hike is all but priced in here. it is set for a 14th hike from the bank of england when it comes to their interest rate decisions bringing the rate plus or minus around 5.2%. the question is whether they'd be able to hike again by 50 basis points instead of just the 25 this time around. seams the peak rate for interest rates is set to be around 5.75%, which leaves them with at least two more hikes after this if they were to only hike by 25 basis points. so could they front load? let's remember that, inflation in the u.k. still sitting at 7.9%. that is four times what the backup would actually like the figure to be. wage growth has continued to spike and services inflation is still too high, is so too is food inflation. what are those aspects and even core cpi still at levels uncomfortable for the bank of england. another hike is anticipated. will it be 25 or another surprise 50 basis points? >> all right, we'll be watching for that. thank you as always. still ahead, we continue our coverage of donald trump and his expected arraignment later today in federal court in washington, d.c. how will history remember this moment? we'll ask presidential historian michael beschloss next on "way too early". ay too early" perience, but to advance how the game is played. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. so i didn't think i needed swiffer, until, i saw how easily it picked up my hair every time i dried it! only takes a minute. look at that! the heavy duty cloths are extra thick, for amazing trap & lock. even for his hair. wow. and for dust, i love my heavy duty duster. the fluffy fibers trap dust on contact, up high and all around without having to lift a thing. i'm so hooked. you'll love swiffer. or your money back! you've evolved. you've changed. so have we. that's why new dove body wash now has 24-hour renewing micro moisture for continuous care. new dove body wash. change is beautiful. my most important kitchen tool? 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>> well, what happened on the 6th of january donald trump tries to destroy our elections, the peaceful transfer of power and also destroy the rule of law. had he succeeded on the 6th of january,jonathan, this morning, may not be freely speaking what we think on the airwaves. that's how close it came. he is once again threatening some kind of a dictatorship in the second term. so my point is, you know, that's bad enough. but if we didn't have a system that addressed this threat to democracy and at least question whether it's a good idea or not, and as i say again, you know, we came really close to this trial not taking place before the 2024 election. what would that say about our system of rule of law if what donald trump did and was threatening to do had not come under this kind of a judgment? this is our system working. >> yeah. we heard earlier today from legal experts suggesting this trial might even be the one that comes first because it is the most important. >> indeed, indeed. >> we will have to see. of course, we'll all be watching what happens this afternoon in washington, d.c. michael, we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> have a good day. a private white house lunch and a pledge to do whatever it takes. the concerns former president obama is sharing with current president biden about donald trump's political strength as we head into 2024. then coming up on "morning joe," we will have live reporting from outside the courthouse in washington where, just hours from now, donald trump will be arraigned on 2020 election charges. plus, a potential conflict of interest? why the special counsel is raising concers about a mar-a-lago defense attorney. also, battleground states in the trump era. what some state republicans are blaming for their struggles. also ahead, democratic senator richard blumenthal will join us live in studio. we'll hear from him about his push to keep kids safe online, as well as we'll get his take on donald trump's indictment. "morning joe" just a few short moments away. ay now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. (vo) verizon small business days are coming. from august 7th to the 13th. now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. welcome back. former president barack obama is gearing up for a bruising election season, and he says he's committing to help in any way he can to secure president biden another term in office. that commitment came when obama made a trip to the white house to have lunch with biden back in june, according to three sources familiar with the meeting. "the washington post" first broke the news story. obama and biden had a private lunch during which they discussed the 2024 election. particularly, the surprising and resilient strength of former president trump's base. obama reportedly cited the increased political polarization of the country and stressed he was not concerned about biden or the strength of his candidacy but, rather, his worries about trump's continuing grip over the republican party. joining us now, pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," msnbc political analyst and our dear friend, eugene robinson. good to see you this morning. let's start with that meeting. it's been a source of, let's be candid, frustration among democrats, that president obama doesn't do more in election cycles. the obama team pushes back and says, look, he plays the role of the closer. in part, his appearances have so much power because he only shows up in the last couple weeks and drives home big events, turns out the vote, whips up enthusiasm. what do you make of obama distributing to efforts so far, and what do you contribute to his strength? >> the headline is obama isn't just going to pitch the ninth inning. he'll be more of a middle reliever and a closer. he is coming in early, and i think that's significant news for the biden campaign. obviously, barack obama is a major, major political force, especially in the democratic party but also with independents, with people who remember the obama years as normal and better than the trump years. so i think that's good news for president biden. you know, as far as his concerns about the polarization, the continuing strength of trump within the republican party, i don't think that's new. i think joe biden probably understands that certainly as well as or probably better than barack obama at this point. after all, he has run against trump and beaten him. but it is significant that this major, major figure in our politics is going to be involved early and often. >> yeah. obama, the nation's most popular democrat, perhaps rivalled only by his wife, michelle. i think it is interesting, a few months ago, there almost seemed to be overconfidence in biden land about their rematches with trump. it's changed a bit. they think, look, we like our chances, like our record, but trump could win, and this is going to be a lot of work. eugene, let's talk about what we'll see later today, not far from where you are standing. what stood out on this particular indictment for trump, but also what will you be looking for today? what does this mean for the nation? >> this whole indictment, i urge people to read it. it is just 45 pages long. the case it lays out is delaware stating. the story it narrates is incredible, and you think it couldn't have happened here in the united states. that a president defeated in an election would actually attempt to cling to power against the will of the voters. that happens in other places. it doesn't happen in the united states. yet it happened here. i think that is -- that's the takeaway, that this awful thing really happened and, in the end, it's down to donald trump. he inspired it. he led it in many ways, and he needs to be held accountable for it. >> at least to this point, donald trump is the only person being charged in this case. >> yeah. >> perhaps in an effort to accelerate the timetable and conduct this trial before trump stands before voters again. eugene robinson, stick around, please, for "morning joe." it is a historic day again. president donald trump, the former president of the united states, will be arraigned, this time for his efforts to overturn an election in this united states. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday morning. an important "morning joe" starts right now. do you think he knew that he lost the election? >> do i personally believe that? yeah, at first i wasn't sure, but i have come to believe that he knew well he had lost the election. and, now, what i think is important is, the government has assumed the burden of proving that. the government in their indictment takes the position that he had actual knowledge that he had lost the election and the election wasn't stolen through fraud. they're going to have to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. >> which is a high bar, of course. >> it's a high bar. now, that leads me to believe we're only seeing a tip of the iceberg on this. >> you think jack smith has more? >> oh, yes, i would believe he has a lot more, and that's one of the things that impressed me about the indictment. it was very spare. there were a lot of things he could have said in there, and there's more to

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