York city. Where we are just hours away from former president donald j trumps third criminal arraignment in just four months. Tomorrow afternoon, at four pm eastern he is expected to appear in person at a federal court in washington d. C. , where he will enter a plea to charges that he conspired to overturn the 2020 president ial election. Tonight dawn forsman is preparing, setting up barricades outside the courthouse. Of course, on tuesday a grand jury indicted trump on four separate felony counts, including conspiracy to defraud the United States of america. Today trumps lawyer gave another preview of what could be a possible defense that the Indictment Strikes at the former president right for free speech. This is the first time that the First Amendment has been criminalized. This indictment is criminalizing conduct not speech . Its criminalizing speech for this reason, what the president saw in the 2020 election was all these irregularities going on, he had the right to comment on that an act politically. In a criminal case they would have to show that all the speech was not entitled to First Amendment protection. Of course, reminder, it is not about what donald trump said as jack smith laid out in the indictment. It is what he did. Trumps lawyer also objected to the possibility of a trial during the 2024 election cycle. Suggested the Justice Department was moving too quickly. The biden Justice Department has had three years to investigate this, to take President Trump to trial in 90 days, of course is absurd. The question is why do they want to do that, if you want to see justice then you need to offer mister president president frump, an opportunity to get a hold of all the evidence and understand with the facts are. Meanwhile, the New York Times notes how former Vice President mike pence has gone from trumps righthand man to potential star witness and not political rival. This afternoon, pence responded to questions about trump and the indictment. Anyone who puts themself over the constitution should never be president of the United States. Anyone who asked someone else to put themselves over the constitution should never be president of the United States again. What the president maintained that day, and frankly, has said over and over again over the last two and a half years, completely false. And it is contrary to what our constitution and the laws of this country provide. Sadly, the president was surrounded by a group of crack pot lawyers that kept telling him what his itching years wanted to hear. Not long after that, the former president posted these outright lies about mike pence. Writing the following quote, he didnt fight against election fraud, which we will now be easily able to prove. The vp had power that mike didnt understand. This of course comes after the indictment made it clear pence did not have that power. And for fact sake, the Electoral Count act does not give the Vice President the ability to change the outcome of an election. Weve said it before, we will say it again. President former President Trumps woeful ignorance proves nothing. With that lets get smarter with the help of our Leadoff Panel and ice promise they have been working overtime. Luke broadwater, Pulitzer Prize winning congressional reporter for the New York Times. Kyle cheney, political Senior Legal Affairs reporter. Barbara mcquade, veteran federal prosecutor in former u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of michigan. Barbara, i want to start with you. What should we be paying attention to tomorrow, any surprises that the Trump Legal Team could throw into the mix . I would be surprised, stephanie. An arraignment is actually a pretty routine matter. The defendant has a right to have the indictment read to them which they almost always wave because they want to get the whole thing over with as quickly as possible. You know, they find out what the penalties are. They enter their preliminary plea, guilty, not guilty, stand, mute. Released on a bond of some sort. So i would be surprised if much happens tomorrow. What could happen, i think, is the spectacle outside the courthouse. There could be civil unrest of donald trump gives incendiary speech or comments. That could be the kind of civil unrest that we have been worried about here in new york, georgia, and elsewhere. Kyle, trumps lawyers saying hold your horses, this thing is moving too fast. Too fast for whom . The lion share of all of this evidence was laid out by the january Six Committee months ago. Is this really just about trump wanting to push this true and win an election and wipe this out . That being the most reasonable defense . I mean, look, this is going to take a while to bring to trial. For no other reason at least that the president had the crowded legal calendar over the next year plus, so, just to fit the trial into his schedule will be quite an ordeal. I think the question is how do you ensure that the president who has the right to present a defense will prepare that defense that will take time. Its not going to necessarily take two plus years that trumps Attorney Says it will, but it could take a significant amount of time to organize that kind of a defense, and make sure he is able to present it. And so, the earliest filings in this case that will be of high interest is what is the timeline, the specific timeline, that jack smith thinks this can be done in and is he prepared to say the documents case which is prepared to go in trial and may. Luke, donald trump posted a thank you to his supporters today. Here is the thing, core gop maga voters control of the base, there is nothing they can do . Yes youve described the Dynamic On Capitol Hill pretty well there. Look, there is a lot of evidence that the more january six is talked about, the worse it is for donald trump and republicans electoral chances. Specifically, in the general election. We saw that in the midterms. But what it doesnt seem to hurt him in is the primary. As long as those primary voters are locked in, so tightly, to donald trump and supporting him so much, you see that reflected with the republicans on capitol hill. The minute some of them start to break with trump or speak out against trump, they hear it from their voters at home, and those who have really broken up with trump have been ostracized from the party, almost completely. So, yes that is the dynamic, theres a lot of republicans who talked on the hill wish they would change that, wish that the hold he has over the base would break. But weve not seen any evidence that that is going to happen and, you know, perhaps it still could at some point. But, we havent seen evidence that it is trending towards that. We may start to see lawmakers start to campaign for the idea of open primaries. Luke, the other things that we are hearing republicans say today is fine, now, it is going to be donald trump versus joe biden, Criminal Versus criminal. And they are pushing this idea that joe biden is involved in illegal Business Dealings with his son. Please help us here. Has absolutely anything been proven, or shown, that ties the president , the current president of the United States to any illegal conduct . I mean, theres a huge difference between actual criminal charges, which we now see three indictments against donald trump where theyve gone to a grand jury, substantial evidence has been amassed. And then mere allegations. Which is what you see here from republicans on capitol hill against joe biden. You know, there is one investigation about the haven of classified documents, that is going on, by special counsel into joe biden, and we will see how that one ends up. We dont know how it will end up. But, there is no criminal case going atul against joe biden, alleging corrupt Business Practices that simply does not exist. Which is why we need to keep reminding our audience, however, if that would be the case we would cover it, but there is nothing to cover at this point, because there are no charges being launched against the current president. Barbara, i want to share with juul Rudy Giuliani said last night. I have a chapter of my book called stand up to bullies, here is what i say to jack smith. This will be your legacy, violating the rights of free speech of an american citizen. Never mind whether he was president or not. Okay, okay, okay, barb, Rudy Giuliani is telling us that jack smith should be worried about his legacy. Rudy giuliani who held a Press Conference at four seasons total landscaping in philadelphia, Rudy Giuliani who was prominently featured in the most recent borat movie. He is warning others about legacy . Yeah, first of all i dont think jack smith cares about his legacy i think what he cares about his justice. This seems to become a talking point, ive been hearing it in the past few days from Trump Supporters and apologize, this idea that donald trump was simply exercising his First Amendment right to free speech. We all have a right to free speech, but there are limits to those things. When it and up in illegal conduct. If you and i get together and plot to rob a bank, is that exercising free speech . No it is a criminal conspiracy if we enter into an agreement to violate the law. Pressuring State Officials to subvert the vote. Organizing fake slates of electors. Pressuring mike pence to overturn the election. All of these things are illegal conspiracies. Yes they involve speech, but it is not simply the exercise of free speech that we enjoy when we stand on the Street Corner and talk about which political candidate we support. Kyle, earlier today i heard Lindsey Graham on television attacking the judge presiding over this case, saying that she absolutely hates donald trump. Of course, this judge was confirmed, unanimously, which means Lindsey Graham himself voted yes to confirm her, but now he is changing his tune. Along with other republicans, including trumps lawyer who suggested moving this trial potentially to west virginia. Any chance of that happening . I highly doubt it. Look, in a lot of generous cases weve seen defendants make motions to transfer venue and they argue they say d. C. The jury pool is too biased against Trump Supporters, we can have a fair trial here, the judges have rejected that across the board. Theyve said look the constitution and the law favors you having a trial in the district where the crime is committed, allegedly committed. And on top of that, your assumptions about the d. C. Jury pool are not backed up by facts. Yes the politics are certainly there, but that is not a factor in juries. When they are deciding based on whether our crime has met the standard of reasonable doubt. There is a very thorough process for vetting jurors, that seems to work. Weve seen nuanced verdicts and a lot of january six cases that dont fit the stereotypes that a lot of these people claim. Luke, trump is also going back to some of his favorite sort of january six that mike pence, he would have been able to change the election. How can he possibly make this argument. Mike pence is now defending himself. But again, still not going for the jugular. Knowing that Trump Supporters are never going to support mike pence, many of them are the ones chanting hang mike pence. Yeah, i mean, you can understand what mike pence is trying to do here. But, he did stand up to donald trump on january six. And he did refused to throw out the votes of million of americans. But in that time, since then, he seems he wants to back off from really criticizing trump over it, or taking a firm stand about it. I heard him say today that although trump shouldnt hold office again, that he didnt agree with indicting him. And so, he is trying to walk this very, narrow middle rhoda which im not sure who it appeals to. Im not sure what the voter base is or what the electorate is. And he is not catching up in the polls from it. So, i dont know, is at some point he is willing to go hard against donald trump and speak out more forcefully or will he continue to pursue this middle ground that doesnt seem to be catching on the voters . The special counsel had access to january Six Committee s findings, they were massive. Kyle, does it seem like were going to see more people charged soon . This is a good question because the six coconspirators who we believe, at least five of them, maybe all six are attorneys, seem like they could be charged eminently. We have to see the grand jury continues to meet and push forward, but at the same time, a big part of that picking those six particular coconspirators could be about neutralizing donalds trumps counsel, because if he says i was relying on the advice on my lawyers they can say that is because you were in league with those lawyers to do these crimes. So, theres a strategic reason to pick these six coconspirators but they could be conceivably charged and soon. Barb, tonight former attorney general bill barr, trumps attorney general was asked if he spoke to jack smith or the investigators. I want to share what he said. Im not going to get into that. Could he eventually be a witness at this trial, much like mike pence . I think it is very likely he wont be a witness in the trial, we saw this testimony during the january Six Committee hearings, and in this indictment. He is cited as one example of the reasons donald trump william barr told him he had not seen any widespread fraud that could change the election. He said publicly and it was after that that he resigned from his position as attorney general. Just a few weeks before the end of the administration. I think it is very likely that we will see william barr. Of course you mentioned at the beginning, this concept of willful ignorance when you have william barr, and you have your cyber director, and you have your director of National Intelligence telling you that you have lost the election, you lose 61 at a 62 lawsuits, the lone victory being a procedural non substantive picture, and you hear again and again even from your own Campaign Advisers that youve lost the election, at some point this instruction about woeful ignorance will be given to the jury. That is you cant simply ignore and obvious fact by Turning A Blind Eye to it. And so, i think william barr will be part of the litany of witnesses who we will hear from who put donald trump on notice that he had indeed lost this election. That is a bumper sticker. Woeful ignorance is my defense, please elect me to be the president. Luke broadwater, kyle cheney, barbara mcquade, thank you so much, before we go to break i want to quickly check in on how fox news host are talking about this new indictment, because the truth matters, but only if you hear it. Here is Laura Ingraham earlier this evening. Now, not wanting to leave politics, apparently, is the basis for a federal crime. Are you listening to these people . The bottom line is this, trump was charged with two counts of conspiracy and two counts of obstruction of an official proceeding, for adopting and pressing an unconventional and controversial legal view, that the electors in this president ial race could be replaced with new electors. Well, the indictment . According to that analysis is a complete sham. If this is how low the bar is said Going Forward then smith and garland, and every prosecutor who push this fraud of a case, should all expect to face similar treatment to what they are putting trump through. For facts sakes, absolutely no one is saying that not wanting to leave office is the basis for a federal crime. Jack smith goes to Great Lengths in the indictment to show that this is not about what trump said, thought, or wanted. Again, it is about what he actually did. I want you to listen to the words, she herself Laura Ingraham used to describe one of the conspiracies that trump is accused of. Unconventional, and controversial. Sounds zany or cute. No. Heres a quick reminder of what she actually thinks, and how she talked about trump allies and unnamed coconspirators sydney powell, Rudy Giuliani, in a private text message from the dominion lawsuit. Earlier this year, quote, sydney is a complete nut. No one will work with her. Ditto with rudy. That is what Laura Ingraham really thinks when the cameras arent on. I said it before, i will say it again, the truth matters, but only if you hear it. Coming up, jack smith called Law Enforcement the defended the Capitol Patriots and the best of us. We will speak with former Capitol Police chief steven sons about trumps latest indictment and what that says about january six. Later, with the new charges with trump matter for Republican Voters, the 11th hour just getting underway on an important wednesday night. Ortant wednesday night eam. The coach. The manager.