Show up. Theyre underway. Good evening once again, im stephanie ruhle. Donald j trump is already facing serious legal trouble on multiple fronts. But he may soon be fighting a whole battle, other criminal investigations move closer to the possible indictment face. There are signs special counsel they could be closing in on charges related to efforts of the 2020 election. They posted this about smith. Quote, i assume an indictment will be coming out in the day now. And well campaigning this weekend, he estimated the false claim, also known as a lie that any potential charges against him we politically motivated. They waited two and a half almost three years its right the middle my president ial election. Its election interference. Its a great badge of honor. Because i am being indicted for you. Meanwhile, the classified Documents Case is moving forward. It is now been four days since that superseding indictment was filed. This morning they knows codefendant, the maralago Property Defendant at his First Court Appearance in miami. Carlos darrell bay go through tonight and 100,000 bond. No play during the first hearing in Federal Court in miami. Prosecutors say he was gonna delete as part of a classified document case. Telling the staff are quote, the boss one of the video deleted. Mr. Trump who now faces 40 counts said posting maralago tapes were not deleted and were handed over. Im told nobody to believe them. Fani will not survive Donald Trumps latest attempt to just make it go away. Today the judge flatly rejected trumps push to toss out the case. This weekend, she spoke out about the investigation and what the next steps could look like. I made a commitment to the american people, the most importantly of fulton county. We were gonna be making some Big Decisions regarding election investigation, that was gonna be before September 1st of 2023. I would hold true to that commitment. What was held, we are ready to go. With that lets get smarter with the help of our lead off panel. And since beyonce was in town this weekend, i had to stay with an allstar, all women panel to start the show off. My good friend caroline he is here, Pulitzer Prizewinning Investigative Reporter with the washington post. Former missouri senator and msnbc political panelist, clear mccaskill. And tally for haiti and weinstein. The former federal and State Prosecutor of new york. Clerk of Merrick Garland and Justice Sandra day oconnor. Academics gasquet, i turn to you first. Trumps codependent are facing major twice a major and underlined, and highlight it and put two exclamation points. Major documents, how big is a legal threat for them . How hard is it for prosecutors to work in the against trump . Well, the superseding indictment is pretty extraordinary. What we have for the first time is, we have clear evidence that jack smith has witnesses that tied the effort to delete security tapes, which by the way would be illegal. Just an effort to be subpoenaed. Its going directly to donald trump. Maybe 24 minute phone call with the Property Manager within a day of him getting his subpoena. We then have them going down there special to talk to the Property Manager. Skating it out like some kind of bizarre prime novel. And then the most important part, move the Property Manager talking to some of the i. T. Department, explaining to him that this is between us but the boss wants the Security Cape sullied it. This is the very first time. We can imagine theres other witnesses that would give us Direct Evidence of donald trump and what he was doing and saying at the time. But this is the first time that we have a clear indictment with a direct witness that clearly has implicated donald trump absolutely directly. Well, tally at this point it seems like Donald Trumps clearest or best offense is to just keep delaying this thing. And isnt actually working . The Property Manager somehow couldnt find himself a local lawyer . So, his arraignment has now been delayed until august 10th. To me, that seems crazy. Am i wrong . Well, you would think so stephanie. Except it happened and that he had trouble finding a local lawyer. Ultimately, there arent that many moves left for delay. And the things for the vera, the charges against him seem to not implicate they need to see the classified document, thats really what makes these cases take some time. We did the most slow down. He doesnt seem to need that. I dont expect him coming into this case will be catastrophic, in terms of the delay that its going to. Bring there will be some, but it seems manageable to me. All right carole, talk to us about this maralago i t manager. The other person in the indictment what you know about him . This part that breaks, mason looking at jack smith. And what he has revealed for. The key subject of our investigation [inaudible] its basically either we think they cooperate or we are giving you a [inaudible] to tell you where we charge you [inaudible] and both things [inaudible] and i. T. Person revealed and their conversation was it was once deleted he can point carlos powerful as a scheme that has been unveiled the situation in which prosecutors take a small guy and put it on the who then is next its a higher line and it is the individual providing information to very incriminating the people above him the intense fall believing that person can cooperate with talavera. Clare lets talk about how this with the election, we are now waiting for both fani willis. Shes not coordinating, does that surprise you . It did in some context, going to be in which case they are going to indict around fraud. Sure, theyll be some instances. So, at some point, operations will be overlapping. One person, thend they have gone. Go to giuliani, and all the others. I do think that the federal case will be tried first. Its possible, sometime still, much more quickly, in my experience none in this instance. If fani willis. And they both in the same witnesses the whats happening absolutely, stephanie. Theres been a statement from about not knowing the and actually kind of concerning, having been a State Prosecutor. If you have an instance that and contemplate an incident end up in where the defendant to the two to the east so, in effect there is going to court and some sharing arrangements about coordinating. Its as you said on the they dont give the defendants they themselves. Carol, what about fani willis theyre getting decision on trump not been shy on giving dates. You know, she basically ive never in the first three weeks of august we will make our announcement. Thats pretty specific. And i couldntag with what tali about it being concerning, that there is the allegation by Phony Madness that there is no coordination in discussion between the two teams. I find that striking for a number of reasons. One, the feds usually do in the desperately want to go first. And they usually do have quotations with other state investigators, either using their big federal shoulder to say hey, buddy, were in line first, are coordinating in some way, not how you prosecutor, not knowing what the information is that is at your back and call, and making sure there were witnesses dont have any discrepancies about what theyve said. That can really be problematic. But i think fani willis has been toiling at this since basically February Of 2021 and the Department Of Justice did not pick up this ball at this time. Did not pick it up in 2021. They rebuffed doing so in 2021, when a Senior Department of justice leader said, yeah, were not going to look at these trump allies right now. We dont see a link between batteries six and a crime here. They rebuffed it again, the fbi did, in november of 2021. So, fani willis has a very good justification for wanting to go first. Shes been toiling well the Department Of Justice was trying to decide whether or not there is evidence of a crime. Here the first time there is any prosecutor really digging into this issue was not until april of 2022. So, thats a pretty significant distance that she has on them. Shes lap them, and she, by just basic rights, has a reason to want to go ahead and proceed. Clare, lets do a compare and contrast and kind of stay on that. Fani willis, in some instances, feel like shes been giving us a play by play over the last few months. Carol just mentioned it, in the first few weeks i will do x. Over the weekend, i am getting close to potential charges. Meanwhile, jack smith, he wouldnt tell you what he ate for lunch yesterday. Why does it behoove her, or does it, to share so much . Why would she, when he certainly doesnt . Well, every first of, all you have to understand the difference between the culture at doj and the culture in the State Prosecutors offices. State Prosecutors Offices respond to 911 calls. They are dealing with the press day in and day out on Violent Crime. The vast majority of Violent Crime in this country is handled by local State Prosecutors, not by federal prosecutors. So, they are much more facile in terms of interacting with the press, because they have to. People want to know whats going on when someone is when theres a murder, or theres a shooting. So, i think she has been more open. I think the point that carroll made about how long shes been working at this certainly comes down her side of the ledger. The problem that were going to have, regardless of how much theyre talking to each other, whoever goes first, those witnesses are going to take the stand and theyre going to give their testimony. The next trial, all of that testimony is available to the next prosecutor for possible crossexamination on any slipup, any discrepancy, any misstatement that might be made. So, its really going to be whove fani willis if she does go first to make sure that her witnesses are very prepared, have gone over the previous statements theyve made, and our prep and comfortable on the stand, so they dont get nervous and make a mistake that in fact jack smith, that they have to own in the next trial. Tali, what do you think. Well, i agree with Everything Claire said. And i would also add that State Prosecutors are almost always elected. So, they are also more in the habit of selling themselves and interacting with the press to do that. So, that might explain some of the different approaches here as well. You know, were talking a lot about who starts first. But it seems to me that trump is almost sure to make a motion in the georgia case to remove that case to Federal Court. And hes tried this in other places. I think it might have a better chance of success in georgia. But whether or not it succeeds, it could have the effect of slowing her down, such that if shes tied up in that litigation, it would make sense for the federal trial to happen first. So, i dont think its just about who gets out of the gate. Well have to see how each of the litigations plays out. Clare, what do you think mark meadows is really doing right now . How does he fit into all of this . Well, thats what i am waiting for. What i want to see is the witness list for fani willis and jack smith. I think Chris Christie said the other day that mark meadows was behaving like a federal witness when he is declining to talk to anyone when he was caught out on the streets, i think, by an nbc reporter. It is hard for me to believe that mark meadows has not cooperated and given them what actually was going on, both with the fake electors, trying to fraudulently overturn the georgia election, with Everything Trump was doing and saying. And i think mark meadows, frankly, mark meadows and mike pence are the ones who have the most information about the culpability of donald trump. And if they were really threatened with potentially going to prison, especially mark meadows, i think he was really vulnerable, its not going to surprise me that he ends up being the star witness at all. I just want to know, what does mark meadows spend his days doing . He spent years as very powerful and influential republican in the public. I dont know where he makes his money now, and who he is spending his time with. Carl lennon, tali farhadian weinstein, unfortunately for you, claire, im not letting you leave yet. But ladies, i will see you soon. Thank you for joining. When we come back, were going to follow the money. There is a new Legal Defense fund for trumps allies legal bills, and the former president s pack has already spent millions of dollars to defend him and few others this year alone. Were just halfway through the year. And later, more bad news for ron desantis means the debate stage could make or break his campaign. Robert gibbs and mike murphy are here, the 11th hour just getting underway on the start of a big big week. Big w unresolved Depression Symptoms were in my way. I needed more from my antidepressant. Vraylar helped give it a lift. Adding vraylar to an antidepressant. Is clinically proven to help relieve overall Depression Symptoms. Better than an antidepressant alone. And in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. Elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. Report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. Antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. 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Lets welcome Pulitzer PrizeInvestigator Reporter and tax expert david cay johnston, hes also distinguished visiting spectator at syracuses college of law, and wrote three books on trump himself, and former missouri senator claire mccaskill. We would not let her leave, so she is sticking around. Senator, youre also a former prosecutor. Here is what i need you to help me understand, these trump allies, im guessing, these individuals are people that the prosecution would like to flip on trump. Is it not a massive Conflict Of Interest that hes basi