Trumps allies. What we are hearing from the Trump Campaign in the midst of cash flow problems. Were watching the d. C. Federal courthouse for any news in jackson smiths election interference probe. How close we could be to indictment there. And there was movement in georgia. And was hinted at over the weekend. Were on the ground at the courthouse. The security there ramps up. Lets begin in florida. Joining me now, katie, also, nbc news justice correspondent. Start us off, if you will. Take us inside that courtroom. What happened today . Reporter so good morning. This morning, Carlos De Oliveira arrived with his counsel john irving at the federal courthouse behind me. It is the same courthouse that walt nauta was arraigned a few weeks ago. It is not the courthouse that donald trump was arraigned at. However, there was no arraignment today because Carlos De Oliveira didnt have an attorney of law qualified. So it has been rescheduled. The biggest takeaways are the following. One, there are efforts currently being made by de oliveira to obtain local counsel which dove tails what youre talking about. Flerms where will the money come from. We also heard an attempt by de oliveira to reschedule his arraignment for august 25th. Why is that date important . It is the next deadline in the classified information deadlines that the judge set forth in her trial order. The judge said absolutely not. The judge made it clear that mr. De oliveira had to be arraigned prior to that august 25th date. So he was set to post a 100,000 bond. He has to abide by a special condition that both trump and nauta have to abide by. They cannot have communications about the facts of this case with witnesses that have been identified by the department of justice. So well be tuning in on august 10th to see who the counsel will be for Carlos De Oliveira. What is up with these individuals not being able to obtain local counsel . Walt nauta as well. I believe his arraignment was delayed. Is it this difficult to get local counsel in florida . Or is this a strategy to delay the whole process . Reporter i wouldnt read too much into it. Often, judges will allow a public defender to step in in an arraignment for a defendant who hasnt had a chance to procure local counsel. Usually people are surprised when they get indicted. They dont have much advance warning. At maralago, it may be difficult to secure the legal representation they think they need. In this case, the judge is deferring to them and allowing them to pick their own lawyers but i dont think it will delay things. Judge Aileen Cannon has said she wants to move this along. She wants it to happen before the first pretrial hearing. And his lawyer john irving is on the case and fully able to start getting ready and to try to understand the charges. We should not lose sight of the significance of this. It is not just the Property Manager at maralago being charged. These recharges against President Trump accusing him of an extraordinary conspiracy to destroy evidence that was under grand jury subpoena. Unprecedented in american history. Katie, you dug into this a little bit. I want to you draw new strings, that is this Legal Defense fund now created by the former president essentially called the save america pac. They spend 40 million or so since the beginning. Year. Some of this fund will in fact cover the former president s Legal Defense. But also, codefendants, right . Like walt nauta and de oliveira. Who else will be folded into this thing . Well, the pac is not going to be covering trumps bills moving forward. The Legal Defense fund, excuse me. Wont be covering it from what weve heard. It will cover associates, known associates being investigated that perhaps are looking the at cases that have already been filed like walt nauta as well as Carlos De Oliveira. A couple ways to look at this. One, ethically speaking, as an attorney, you can have your bills paid by another codefendants funds. It kind of raises some eyebrows. As we know, in august of 2022, a Search Warrant was executed at maralago. According to the superseding indictment, it says i will get you a lawyer. So it only took a couple weeks pledging that to de oliveira and the evidence would suggest that trump is trying to buy the cooperation or even the silence of Carlos De Oliveira. So cant that be seen, were going to get into this in just a bit with our legal panel. Can that not be seen as a Conflict Of Interest . The conflict only arises if the attorney cannot provide an adequate representation that is competent to that particular client. There are very specific rules that govern how lawyers are supposed to comport. They. If they run afoul of it, not only could they have problems with the existing case and the judges in the tribunal but they may be looking at action against their license by the Bar Association or the state bar or the federal bar that is governing their licenses. Were looking at this arraignment now. Obviously, as katie laid out. August 25th was what de oliveira wanted. It is august 10th now. What are the rules surrounding whether or not he could be in touch with the former president between now and then . He can be in touch with him. He just cant discuss the case, according to this order. But doesnt that seem unenforceable . How is that policed exactly . When walt nauta is the personal valet to the former president and Carlos De Oliveira is working at maralago. Thank you. Lets get into our legal panel with all this stuff. My guests are both msnbc legal analysts and we are very thankful for that. Mary, start things off for us. I think one of the things weve been talking about since thursday is whether or not the trial case for the maralago docs will be pushed back from may 20th. Of 2024. With all that has taken place so far, are you seeing that as more and more likely . I think it is certainly possible weve added new charges, there is been a new defendant added. That defendant has his own attorney. That attorney will want to file motions. That attorney will want to go through the discovery. But i dont think it is necessarily the first thing that judge cannon will do. She may wait to see how able mr. De oliveiras attorneys are able to get the discovery and get moving on this case before she entertains any kind of motion to extend the trial date. And motions also can be additional motions will likely be brought by the former president and mr. Nauta in light of these new charges as well. Now, one thing that makes me think this isnt so obvious that the trial date will get pushed is that mr. De oliveira is not charged with any mishandling of National Defense information or classified documents. So his need to have access to all that classified discovery and participate in the Classified Information Procedures Act hearings is much, much less than mr. Trumps. So his case is a straightforward obstruction case. The attempt to destroy the effort and conspiracy to destroy. So it could be streamlined. All of that said, im sure there will be an entreaty to change the trial date and push it out. So you actually see there is an upside to the delay in the maralago docs case. What is that . Yeah. I think if it gets delayed enough, there could potentially be room to squeeze in the January 6th Trial before the maralago trial. So i think in some ways, that could be a benefit to jack smith. As it is with this May 20th Trial date, if the January 6th Case were to be indicted this week or next week, i think they would be looking at a trial after that. Sometime no earlier than probably july or maybe even butting into the fall. At that point, the later it gets, the more trumps push to make it after the election might begin to make essential. If the maralago indictment gets pushed a month or two, now we see the alvin bragg indictment and the maralago case, perhaps the jigt case could be tried in that case. And that is the big one. That is the one about overturning democracy. So if jack smith plays his cards right, he might be able to adjourn the maralago case and squeeze in the January 6th Case before that. Why would they be able to make a case for the January 6th Case happening sooner than the maralago docs case . Why wouldnt that also be pushed back as well . Well, the maralago case has some complications that are not present in the January 6th Case. The Classified Information Procedures Act that governs all of these classified documents that are charged in the case. The president s argument that he has through Executive Power the ability to have these documents i think raises some novel questions of law that may not be present in the January 6th Case. So it could be that as this case gets pushed along, there is a sufficient window in between to try the January 6th Case. We talked a little bit, mary, about this Conflict Of Interest. I want to talk about what were getting in here about paying for de oliveiras bills as well as nautas legal bills. The unnamed employee, that de oliveira is quote, unquote, loyal. And on the same day, trump calling de oliveira that trump would get him an attorney. This from nbc news as well. Based on federal election filings, it appeared trump made good on that promise. Trumps pac paid more than 189,000 in 2022 to the law firm where de oliveiras lawyer, john irving, is a partner. Realistically, if the feds are looking to flip or get de oliveira to cooperate, how will they do that if the former president is paying his legal bills . Is this not some sort of an Ethics Violation . Not on its face. A lawyer has an ethical duty to the client, not the person paying the lawyer. So for example, in corporate cases, its not uncommon if there are multiple people employed by a corporation who are indicted, the corporation will often pay those legal bills. The problem would often arise if mr. De oliveiras attorney was not loyal to mr. De oliveira and in fact loyal to trump. We have no reason to believe thats the case. John irving is a wellrespected lawyer. I know him personally. That is the fear, right . Weve seen in the past, for example, when Cassidy Hutchinson was represented, being paid for by the trump organization, she was much more reluctant to speak with the house select committee. When she got other counsel, she then began to be cooperative. I think the concern here, frankly, and this would not be an issue of legal ethics. This would just be a feeling of coercion that mr. De oliveira may feel. He may himself feel loyalty to mr. Trump because hes worked for him for decades, as i understand it. That has been his source of income. Hes been elevated within maralago. So he may want to cooperate for those reasons. Thats not a legal ethical conflict. And it remain to be seen if there is. Im wondering how that conversation goes. If the attorney being paid for by the former president of the United States, and this defense fund find it is in the best interests of de oliveira to cooperate with the feds, how does that play out . Well, at some point, if he decides he wants to cooperate, he either or the government can file a motion with the court for the court to inquire about whether the defendant is satisfied with his legal representation. As a prosecutor, i was always very reluctant to get between a client and his lawyer. If there was some interest in pursuing some kind of inconsistent defense that someone wants to cooperate or any other inconsistency, the judge can make a finding that the lawyer has a Conflict Of Interest and that could give any of these witnesses an opportunity to hire new counsel. Because as mary says, the duty of loyalty is to the client. Not to the person paying for them. Thank you. Im going to ask to you stick around. Coming up next, with that, speaking of coordination, we are live in Fulton County after the break. What the d. A. Is saying about her plans to announce in the 2020 election investigation. Plus, an nbc news exclusive. Oneonone with israeli Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu. How he is defending his judicial overhaul in the face of massive protests in the country. And signaling the war in ukraine may be shifting its front lines. What this means for russia and the ongoing campaign. We are back in 60 seconds. dad we got our Subaru Forester wilderness to discover all of the places that make us feel something more. vo subaru is the National Park foundations largest corporate donor, helping expand access for all. Im not willing to put any of the employees or the constituents that come to the courthouse in harms way. I think that the sheriff is doing something smart and making sure the courthouse stays safe, that work is accomplished. Weve been working two and a half years. Were ready to go. We are ready to go. The fulton d. A. Foni saying a Charging Decision is coming. With friction on both sides, joining me now from outside the courthouse is nbc news, blaine, its always good to talk to you. More Courthouse Workers have been told to work from home for most of august. Weve known this for quite some time. The barricades have been erected. What else are we learning that could indicate how soon we might hear a Charging Decision . Reporter well, yes, were fully expecting to hear the decisions sometime within the next three weeks. Keep in mind we dont know who or if there will be indictments. This heightened security around the courthouse was raised in a red flag advance. The clearest indication that foni willis is preparing to seek indictments against some very high level people including potentially the former president himself. So when we talk about security here at the courthouse, yes, she laid it out in a letter back in may to local Law Enforcement saying she plans to ask 70 of her staff to work from home. She asked judges not to schedule any inperson trials or hearings during this time period. And she wanted Law Enforcement officials like the Fulton County sheriff, police chief, all the people in charge of securing this area to have ample time to do just that. To make sure they had enough time to shore up the courthouse and make sure everything is okay. What is at stake hear, we know several things. The table is set. Shes made it clear she plans to announce her decision before september. We know two grand juries are currently seated and one of those, she will be presenting her case before the grand jury. There are two. One that meets on mondays and tuesdays, the other that meets on thursdays and fridays. She has to convince half of them so were talking about 13 votes. Were focusing on this in the lens of frump being investigated for a long time. Shes also looking into a number of his allies investigating a lot of things we know that rudy giuliani, for example, is a target in this, including a number of georgias alternate electors. Some of them sought Immunity Deals so there could be a sprawling indictment. Read the tea leaves for us. Something else she said amidst all of this and the local interviews shes been given. Is that people might not be happy with her decision. What should we take from that . Shes been saying it a long time. Shes gotten threats. She has upped her security. She told me that last summer. Right at the very beginning of this investigation, that she increased her security. She sent a letter to the fbi and said she wants the fbi to take a look at the courthouse and making sure everything is where it needs to be in terms of security. It is clear she understands the gravity of this case. We know the Fulton County sheriff sent employees to both manhattan and miami to watch the proceedings there when we saw the former President Trump showing up there for arraignment there. So we know theyre looking to see what protests look like and preparing for the possibility of that and anything else that could come down the line. Thank you. With me now, the former acting National Security analyst. Weve been talking about the scope of these investigations and the looming time line of when well hear about a possible indictment here, looking at both the special counsel investigation with january 6th, as well as what is coming out of Fulton County and wondering whether or not there was coordination between the two. There was a question about that from wabe over the weekend. She said this. I dont know what jack smith is doing and jack smith doesnt know what im doing. If all honesty, if jack smith was standing next to me, im not sure i would know who he was. He probably cant even pronounce my name correctly. Is this surprising to you that there might not be conversations happening between the two . Its not really surprising to me. The time when you have the most conversations between federal prosecutors and the state or local prosecutors are often time when youve had sort of any joint investigations. Sometimes narcotics trafficking investigations. Human trafficking investigations. There could be decisions to bring charges federally or locally and theyll talk to each other about who will take it. We