Transcripts For MSNBC MSNBC Prime 20240708 : comparemela.com

Transcripts For MSNBC MSNBC Prime 20240708



to package an emotional punch. this is 1954, a mom and little girl sitting on the steps after the court rufled that it was unconstitutional to segregate schools. this week there were demonstrations in front of the high court although this time not to celebrate the protection of a right but to protest that one important one is about to be taken a way. in least the draft opinion that leaked from the court this week signaling that the court is poised to take away the enshrined right to obtain an abortion, protests outside the court have taken place every day. moms brought their daughters, even their little babies. these are affecting images. they may be the last ones we get from any future protests outside the court over this particular issue roe v. wade. now, the giant chain linked unclimbable fence that was put up outside the supreme court. shy note for the record that in the fight over abortion rights in this country, the side of in favor of maintaining that right, the side of maintaining that on the steps this week, that has not been the side that has been historically been violent. all of the gatherings in front of the court have been peaceful but after an angry mob of trump supporters tried to stage a coup on january 6th, 2020, this is what we get. for months it has been the expectation that this court too woo knock down roe v. wade, it did catch people off guard including the white house. the biden administration has been scrambling to figure out this week if and how there is a way to compensate for what the court appears to be prepared and ready to do. to protect the abortion rights on the federal level. quote, biden ficials spent much of tuesday panicked as they realized how few tools they had at their disposal. officials are fervently debating a number of executive and regulatory actions that the administration could take to make it easier for women in red state, particularly poor women to access abortion care. but in marathon meetings and phone calls among white house official, government lawyers, outside advisers, and federal agency officials, a sobering reality settled in. there is little that the white house can do that will fundamentally alter a post-roe landscape. end quote. without a large majority in the senate, that's true for democrats in congress, too. next week senate is expected to vote on the women's act which would codify the right to an abortion in this country. the bill passed the house but almost certainly dead on arifle in the senate. that's because democrats need 60 votes to pass the bill in the senate. that filibuster thing again. and that is far more votes than they've got. there's no way to spin this. a federal fix to restore abortion rights is essentially an impossibility. and that's gotten the gears going of some creative legal thinkers in the states. let's take a look at michigan which appears to be turning into kind of a test lab for states to get around the court's decision and protect the rights to obtain an abortion at the state level. michigan like most states has a lot of cookie laws that are still on the books, vestiges from a different time. for example, did you know that in the city of grand haven, michigan, it is illegal to throw an abandoned hoop skirt into any street or sidewalk? it is also apparently illegal to let your pig run free down the streets in detroit, if it does not have its nose pierced. but who even has a pig without its nose pierced. and according to michigan law, it is illegal to obtain an abortion under any circumstances still right now today. that law was passed in 1931. and it remains on the books. now, when you break the law, due get magically teleported to prin, you have to be charged with a crime, you have to be prosecuted, that is why if you decide to chuck your hoop skirt on your sidewalk in front of your house in michigan tomorrow, no one is coming to arrest you, no prosecutor in their right mind would try that case in 2022, the same reason that michigan has two dozen clinics that provide abortion all over the state even though it is technically against the law in michigan. roe v. wade made that michigan law unenforceable. but when roe gets knocked down as signaled by the draft opinion from the supreme court, that opens the door for prosecutors to enforce that michigan law. the second that the supreme court issues that opinion. but of course, just like with the pigs, who don't have nose peerings, or the hoop skirts littering michigan sidewalks, doing that, prosecuting that, is up to the prosecutors. the prosecutor in michigan's largest county, wayne county, which is home to detroit, says if and when roe is struck down, she will not prosecute anyone for providing or obtaining abortion care within her jurisdiction. which means wayne county, the detroit, will become a kind of a safe haven within michigan for abortion care. same for washtenaw county where ann arbor system the prosecutor there says he will never ever prosecute a patient or provider for breaking michigan's ban on abortion. in fact, a total of seven michigan county prosecutors signaled last month that they would do the same thing. even michigan's attorney general says no matter how the supreme court decides quote i am not going to enforce the law, nor will i defend the law which i believe is unconstitutional. end quote. when the court returns its official position, republican lawmakers in michigan can decide to leave that abortion ban on the books or pass some kind of new legislation, severely curtailing access. heck, they could ban people from saying the word outloud like voldemort if they wanted. but without those prosecutors on board willing to enforce it, the law is a waste of paper. one legal parachute discussed in michigan. here is another. earlier this year planned parenthood and the aclu started a campaign to add the right to obtain an abortion to the michigan state constitution. their pitch is to make it a ballot initiative in november so michigan voters can decide if they want to protect abortion rights in their state. now, they would need about 425,000 signatures to get it on the ballot. the group gathering signatures said in just 24 hours, after the draft opinion leaked, the number of volunteers signed up to help gather those 425,000 signatures increased by more than 900 people. like i said, creative thinking. but could any of this actually work? joining us now is nicole wells stallward, the executive director of planned parenthood advocates of michigan one of the groups collecting signatures for the ballots to amend michigan's constitution to guarantee abortion rights. thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> let's talk about this. you have until mid july to collect 425,000 signatures and you have a whole lot of people, more people, 900 more people than were involved in this last week. how far along in that effort? how difficult will it be to get 425,000 signatures? >> well, we're up to 17,000 sign-ups as of wednesday, when the news broke. so that is a signal to us that people are outraged. people believe overwhelming here in the state of michigan that abortion should be kept legal and they do not want roe v. wade to be overturned. so we are working digitally, there has been a groundswell of people stepping up to join our campaign, my reproductive freedom for all, and we are working around the clock to collect the 425,059 signatures that will be needed to qualify for the ballot in july. >> let's talk about that. let's say you get enough signatures. if this is still a ballot measure, it has to pass. what kind of insight do you have on whether it will, because the evidence cross-country, is that a whole lot of people do not want to see abortion criminalized. even if they have differing views on abortion. >> sure. i think, you know, you have to really go back to what you just said, a whole lot of people around the country don't believe that abortion should be criminalized, and here in michigan, we do have this 1931 law on the books that if roe v. wade is reversed, could make abortion a felony crime. and that would be one of the most severe and most strict laws in the state, in the country, so people in michigan don't believe that that should occur. people in michigan feel overwhelmingly that abortion should be legal to the degree of about 67%. so the decision to leak the draft opinion was a wakeup call for many people. and it provided a view for people to understand exactly where we are, right now, helping them to understand that this is not a dress rehearsal, that the supreme court is positioned and prepared to overturn roe v. wade. it also, this campaign, was a way that we believed we could save abortion in our state of michigan. >> so before this week, and it shouldn't have been an abstraction to anyone but it might have been, the overturning of roe v. wade, as of the leak of the draft opinion, it's no longer an abstraction, and by the time this becomes a valid initiative if you get the 425,000 signatures it may be a reality if roe v. wade is overturned because this is a november ballot initiative. what happens if it doesn't pass? >> you know, that is, that's a question mark, right now, you sort of talked a lot about all of the things that we're doing, in our state, to protect access to abortion for the 2.2 pregnant capable people who this law would ultimately impact. so for women, and people who can get pregnant, that would have devastating effects on them. what happens if this doesn't get passed, right now, we are exploring a, this ballot measure, as we have been talking about, but planned parenthood of michigan has also filed a lawsuit, where we're asking the court to step in and to strike down the law. worst case scenario, if none of those strategies work, we would be left without access to abortion with this 1931 law, which has been on our books, which in essence criminalizes providers for providing a vital and needed health care service that people have enjoyed for over 50 years. >> we appreciate you coming to tell us about this, and the work that's going on. the executive director of planned parenthood advocates of michigan. we're grateful for your time tonight. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. well, as i mentioned earlier, michigan's attorney general as well as numerous county prosecutors have said they will not enforce that 1931 abortion ban, should the supreme court follow through in overturning roe v. wade. in fact, in a joint statement last month, seven of michigan's county prosecutors wrote, quote, we are reassuring our communities that we support a woman's right to choose and every person's right to reproductive freedom. end quote. we believe those laws are in conflict, it goes on, with the oath we took to support the united states and michigan constitutions. we cannot and will not support criminalizing reproductive freedom. instead, we will continue to dedicate our limited resources toward the prosecution of serious crimes and the pursuit of justice for all. prosecutor in michigan's largest county, wayne county, where detroit is located signed on to that statement last month, wayne county prosecutor kim worthy reiterated her stance this week saying she will not enforce the state's 1931 abortion ban if roe is overturned. prosecutor worthy joins us right now. thank you for taking time to be with us tonight. let me ask you about this. you and your fellow prosecutors in michigan issued this statement last month. well before anybody thought there was a draft opinion that was going to be leaked. why did you feel it necessary to do it then as opposed to wait for a supreme court decision on roe v. wade? >> well, for many reasons but the main reason is because our governor is so invested in this issue and we want to make sure that she understood that the six of us would certainly support her position in every way in this matter. >> you have publicly declared your support for roe v. wade, you pled that you won't prosecute the doctors and people who work at clinics for performing abortions if the law comes back into play, if roe v. wade is struck down and your anti-abortion law in michigan now takes precedence. are you concerned that michiganders, even those within wayne county, could be investigated or arrested if that law, that 1931 law comes back to life in michigan? >> well, i hope not because i have the criminal jurisdiction in wayne county. and i can't speak about how other prosecutors, other counties that are not one of the six of us will do but again this is a very restrictive law as nicole said, and you can say a patient, a doctor, a nurse, a health provider, can face up to four years in prison, under the current law that's almost a century old, as you said. and also, it does not give any provision or exemption for victims of rape and incest. and as someone who has peered into the eyes of year, hundreds and hundreds of victims of rape and incest, i cannot believe that people want to enter into their trauma and try to dictate their lives as well. so in wayne county, that will not be the case. and i am going to do everything that i can to support the victims that will probably be here, but i support the attorney general, the governor and i want to make sure that this is, all of my resources, to make sure that this law is repealed. >> let me ask you, because i got you here and i think it would help our viewers understand, how would you handle the possibility for instance if people from counties where prosecutors are prepared to enforce this 90-year-old law, will come to wayne county, seeking the procedure, without repercussion or is there a way providers would face legal action in their home county or someone lives somewhere else, how does that work? >> no, if the procedure is done here in wayne county and we are the i believe 13 counties that have these abortion clinics, then we would have full jurisdiction of that because the action was taking place here in wayne county. so i can't imagine any scenario where when they go back to their respective counties if that is not the feeling of the prosecutor there that they would be in any trouble at all. i can't imagine any such scenario. >> the attorney general in your state, up for re-election this year. tell me what happens if her opponent, who is campaigning on this very strongly anti-abortion, decides that he will prosecutor those who have abortions, how does the state's position, how does that work, in wayne county, somebody gets an abortion in wayne county, that's your jurisdiction, but the state attorney general may not ultimately be on your side of this? >> well, at least one of the candidate, the candidates that the republicans have chose has said that he will enforce. that but i can't imagine anyone coming in this county would do that, but if he has jurisdiction across the entire state, that makes it even more of a clarion call for those citizens in the state of michigan, and again, our poll numbers are basically the same as the ones across this country, 70% of michigander does not agree that roe v. wade should be overturned so again, it is up to us to get out there, and not even want to face that possibility that that could happen, and make sure that dan nestle is re-elected because we can trust her and we know she will not support any kind of -- >> so to your point here, that is that you are a prosecutor, you have jurisdiction where you have jurisdiction, but ultimately, it's limited. the long-term solution for this problem is ultimately going to be political. >> politics is everything. and that's certainly the case in this state, it has been so politicized, that's really the only answer at this particular point in time. we simply can't have a situation where people have controls of parts of women's bodies, that they have controls over the reap duck tive rights and it is ridiculous, it is political. and if this doesn't get people to vote for candidates, to support the way that most michiganders feel, i don't know what will. i don't want to imagine that scenario, i want to remain optimistic that people want to see women to have right to bear control of their own bodies and reproductive rights. >> we appreciate your time tonight. thank you. a lot more to catch up on tonight. perhaps one of the more surprising things about the war in ukraine is how many russian generals have been killed in action and the u.s. is reportedly helping ukraine target those jns. the reporter who broke that story joining us next. the repor story joining us next. its invasion of ukraine, when this story broke, quote, the russian military has lost at least three generals in the fight, according to ukrainian, nato, and russian officials. two american military officials said that many russian generals are talking on unsecured phones, and radios. in at least one instance, they said the ukrainians intercepted a general's call, geo-located it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff. end quote. the details about ukrainian tracking russian military leaders through unsecured phones and radios was first reported in the very last paragraph of a "new york times" story by reporters helene cooper, julian barnes and eric schmitt. since then, we've seen an astounding number of reports about senior level russian military leaders killed in action in ukraine. now, nbc news cannot verify each and every one of these reports but at least a few of them have been verified by news outlets likele "new york times" and even by russian media itself and today we got this provocative headline from the "times," u.s. intelligence is helping ukraine kill russian generals, officials say. now, the story is written by the same three reporters who broke that story about the russian generals being targeted through their phones, just three weeks into the war. according to the new report, the united states has been providing ukraine with intelligence on russia's military units which quote has allowed ukrainians to target and kill many of the russian generals who died in action in the ukraine war. this new reporting from the times would help explain why so many russian commanders and generals have found themselves on the wrong end of ukrainian missiles. and it would be consistent with nbc's own reporting from last month which said that the u.s. is providing near realtime intelligence on russia's military movements, but after "the new york times" published today's story, saying u.s. intelligence was helping ukraine kill russian generals, jean oru.s. military intelligence officials started pushing back in very strong terms. a spokesperson from the national security council called the story's headline misleading and called the story itself irresponsible. they said, quote, the united states provides battlefield intelligence to help the ukrainians defend their country. we do not provide intelligence with the intent to kill russian generals. end quote. but a little bit later the pentagon spokesman john kirby also said that. >> we do not provide intelligence on the location of senior military leaders on the battlefield or participate in the targeting decisions of the ukrainian military. >> we do not provide intelligence on the location of senior military leaders on the battlefield or participate in the targeting decisions of the ukrainian military. end quote. full stop. now, here's the interesting part. neither the nsc statement or what kirby said actually contradicts "the new york times" reporting, the times does not say that the u.s. provided this intelligence with the intent to kill russian military leaders, or that they participated in the decision to target those leaders. but the pushback here says something about the, how the u.s. wants the world, or maybe it's russia, to understand its involvement in the war. nbc news has reported another story this evening u.s. intelligence playing a key role in ukrainian attack, according to official, u.s. intelligence sharing helped ukraine carry out the missile strike that targeted the russian black sea vessel the moskva, the attack happened after ukrainian forces asked the americans about a ship sailing in the black sea, and identified it as the moskva and helped confirm the location, after which the ukrainians targeted the ship. tonight "the new york times" has independently confirmed that report. so what does this reporting mean for the ongoing conflict in ukraine? and how should we interpret the response that it generated inside our own government? joining us now is the "new york times" national security reporter julian barnes, he is the lead by line on that story, about u.s. intelligence being used to target russian generals. julian, thank you for joining us tonight. i have to ask you, you've been doing this for a long time, you report on these things, sometimes the government doesn't like what the press reports on stuff, this has had an unusually strong feeling of pushback. why? >> look, i think the u.s. officials are very worried about the escalation situation. they're very worried about putin going out what they call the escalation ladder. and you're right there. was some very sort of strong language out of the nsc and the pentagon, but they weren't really disputing what was in our story. we weren't saying there was an intent to kill. we didn't use that language. what we're saying is that the u.s. provided intelligence about the locations of mobile headquarters. ukrainians combined that with their own intelligence, intelligence like those intercepted calls you mentioned, and then chose when and where to strike. we explained that in the story. that is what is happening. and look, like this administration has properly proceeded carefully, in trying to not escalate the ukraine war. and that's the right thing to do. but it's also important to be transparent about what the united states is doing. they've said they've been providing unprecedented amounts of intelligence, and it is the responsibility of a free and independent nation to explain that. >> so let's talk about that. how much of this is semantics. because the pushback was very specific about what they did or didn't say and the crux of your reporting and our reporting at nbc news is the same. it is, the government has not pushed back on the fundamental idea that u.s. intelligence is being used in some way that is sifting the ukrainians. so talk to me the smantsices. because vladimir putin has said from the beginning of this thing that the u.s. is escalating this and the u.s. is essentially involved but there seems to be some kind of line that the u.s. is unwilling to cross for fear of provoking vladimir putin into thinking otherwise. >> look, the word they clearly do not like today, that kirby made plain, the white house made plain is this word targeting. they're claiming they're not targeting russian generals. and you know, we didn't specifically say that. but why do you provide this intelligence to ukraine? this is so they can target and kill russian forces, including russian generals. it's, this is a war, that's what warring parties do. so it is a little bit dn disingenuous, it is a little double speak to say that's not what this intelligence is for. the intelligence is for fighting a war. >> the russian military, pack to the core of the story, puts a lot more of the high ranking officers on the battlefield compared to other nations. talk to me about this. are the ukrainians using that to their advantage? are the russians learning a lesson that maybe we ought to stop putting these generals in the line of fire? >> the ukrainians are clearly using it to their advantage. the russians, i think, would love to change, it but they can't. because this is how their military is structured. look, in the u.s. military, in nato militaries, there's a lot of responsibility pushed down as close to the front lines as possible. you know, in the u.s. army, a private has a lot of responsibility to make a decision on whether to shoot or not. you know, a lieutenant colonel commanding a battalion has a lot of responsibility to alter the battle plans in their area to be as effective as possible. that's not true in the russian military. in the russian military, a junior officer, an enlisted person, can't make their own decision, they can't alter the plan. only the general officers alter the plan. to be able to know how to alter the plan, you need to be at the front line so they're pushing their general officers really close to the front lines of the battle. and ukraine has been able to take advantage of that. >> let me go back to your reporting. obviously, without getting into your sources for the story, this information came from somewhere, somebody in the u.s. government wanted this information to become public. why? >> it's always hard for reporters to answer those, but there's a lot of misunderstanding about how national security reporting works. you know, sometimes there are platters with all of the information handed out. that's not usually how it happens. usually you got a little bit of information here, a little bit of information there, and you put it together, and you see, talk to other people, you see if it's right, and you put together, a story, and then you test that again. you test your theories. are you, you test your information is, it correct? it's not like somebody want the whole story to come out. it's not like somebody wants the whole story to come out but i think there are people who think this information is nonescalatory and will not push putin up the ladder and there is a, there is some benefit in completely knowing how much support the ukrainians are getting, how tough a fight we have on his hands, and he certainly knows, that and with $33 billion in aid coming, and a big flow of information, this is going to be a long tough fight if putin wants to continue and i think that's part of the message that some people want out. >> and late january, early february, when we were talking about this fight, and the way it was supposed to go a lot of people didn't think the ukrainian military would have what it would take to fight russia and the idea that they got more than what russia thought they would do and some of that with the help of the united states is relevant. thanks for your great reporting by you and your team, "the new york times" national security reporter julian barnes, we appreciate it. >> thank you. up next, as russia ups its attacks on civilian targets, including this bridge full of cars, we'll talk live with npr's tim mack covering the war in ukraine since it started. stay with us. ukraine since it started stay with us ! yes, from colonial penn. your 995 plan fits my budget just right. excuse me? aren't you jonathan from tv, that 995 plan? yes, from colonial penn. i love your lifetime rate lock. that's what sold me. she thinks you're 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>> well, its a a real ghost town. and the possession who are still in these areas, in this russian offensive, it is continuing, they're there because they are on a military mission, a humanitarian mission, or they have no choice but to stay. there are a lot of folks who just don't have the means to leave eastern ukraine. they've called their home their entire lives. i've spoken to some folks who said hey i've been saving up to purchase this apartment for most of my life. how can i possibly leave or i don't have the money to go somewhere else, and if i did arrive somewhere else in ukraine, at some point further west, where would i go? where would i live? how would i find food? and this is the real struggle. the issue in ukraine is to look out the window and just take a little listen, and you hear the sound of bombardment almost constantly. throughout the day. and even those sounds of bombardment are combined with flashes of light, and i spoke to the mayor of kramatorsk, and even as we were talking, in the underground bomb shelter, you could hear the sound of bombing outside. and becoming emotionally numb to it. and almost a part of the daily routine. and predicted in one or two months, he won't have any emotions about this war, fighting at all. >> there's a reporter we spoke with last night, from the "washington post," who said something similar, that the children have been living with their parents under ground, in a bunker, and at first they were crying and scared by the bombing and suddenly they seemed numb to it all, and that's when the mother said, we've got to go. because she was actually worried there would be no reaction. it is remarkable that you point out something important, that there have been millions of refugees, and millions more internally displaced in ukraine, it's a terrible experience. getting away from what seems obvious, getting away from shelling is one thing but going to some place where you don't know anybody or don't have a means to gain an income, it's a very, very, very profoundly big discussion, especially if you're leaving somebody behind. >> that's right. war is definitely about violence and there's certainly a lot of that in ukraine. there's certainly death. but it is also about crying children. it's also about women with worried faces, men not knowing where to go. it's about the people at train stations who have been sitting in train cars for 16 or 18 hours. because there are train delays. you've spoken about the attacks on infrastructure. and some of that infrastructure has been on bridges like you mentioned, but some also on rail stations and a number of rail stations were hit over the past week by apparent russian strikes. and so that delays the movement of civilians across this country. and that delays humanitarian aid. what does this all mean for people? that means difficulty, difficulty leaving the places where there is violence, and leaving ukraine to get to places that are safer, as you point out, even western ukraine has been hit, which means one of the places which has been relatively safe in ukraine, some folks may believe is no longer safe for them. >> let's talk about this monday victory day. there's a lot of speculation, and there has been thrust this entire war, particularly by ukrainian, about the fact that victory day is such an important thing, and in a country like russia, the ability of vladimir putin on convey and express power might be important. are you hearing about this, about people worrying about what happens either on monday or immediately leading up to monday? >> well, the idea of victory day and being an important strategic objective for the russian military and vladimir putin that is something on the minds of i think a lot of ukrainian military officials and government officials for a long time. and the question is, will they be able to deny the russian military some days in eastern ukraine. as you know, the russian military has started this offensive, continued this offensive, and is escalating this offensive, which strikes all across the country, in western, central, southern, eastern, all across the country, and it looks like the ukrainian military has been able to play a part in whether or not russia gets to celebrate its victory day the way vladimir putin and the russian generals might want to. they've been denying and slowing down the russian advance, which is really struggle told make progress in critical areas. in kramatorsk, still held by ukrainian military forces and there is fierce fighting just down the road there, and points north, but as you can see, by looking at various maps of the battlefield, the ukrainian lines are holding stalling. the russian forces as they try to push forward, there hasn't been any dramatic break throughs. >> thanks again for your excellent reporting on this. tim mack is an npr investigative reporting right now in kyiv. we appreciate you making time for us. it is not late, it is very early there for you so thank you, sir. well, two things that i learned today, the first is that 4 d, not 3 d movie theaters actually exist and the u.s. government is the proud owner of one of those theaters and it happens to be on a boat. the reason we all know own one is up next. the reason we all know own one is up next you know those 4 d movie theaters, the ones where the seats shake when the action happens in the movie? the u.s. government and i guess you now own one of those and believe it or not it is on this thing. this is the 348-foot-long, $300 million super yacht amadea. authorities in fiji where it is docked seized ship at the request of the united states as part of the clepto capture task force. the justice department hunted thu this ship down specifically because it longs to this man, the sanctioned russian oligarch who made his money in russian energy and banks. the impact of sanctions is lard to see but this is easy to see. the thing is to in your face, about how expensive it, it is insane. this super yacht, not a lot, the super yacht, it's got a 33-foot see through pool, a second pool that can be turned into a stage, a jacuzzi, a helicopter landing pad because you need one of those. it's got a spa with a finished sauna and a turkish bath a massage room. and a gym. the thing has a wine cellular. and enough rooms for 16 guests. and multiple formal dining room tables. two pianos. one of which is entirely detailed in 24-karat gold, and sue ba gear and a jet pack. i wouldn't have gone with the 4 d movie theater but this is hout russian oligarch chose to spend his fortune and to put pressure on russia to get this oligarch to feel some pain because of the russian war on ukraine, the u.s. has taken away its very expensive toy. russian oligarchs are not just rich russians, they are russians who are rich because of their ties to vladimir putin. he makes them rich. they make him powerful. and if it feels day ja sioux view, since the start of the -- deja vu, since the start of the war in ukraine, authorities have been cracking down on, this french authorities captured a $120 million yacht. italian authorities snagged three oligarch's yachts, one worth $65 million and another worth just $60 million. the third one worth $578 million. spanish authorities have seized four russian oligarchs' yachts coming in a total of $840 million. the u.k. caught two of them, about $125 million, between them, just little ones, and germany impounded this $600 million super yacht which despite the price tag someone decided to name dilbar. all of this is sanctions at work. at least for the u.s. president biden is proposing that all of the russian assets seized during this war would be given to ukraine. now that's yet to become law. but that is where it looks like the u.s. is headed. i know there are a plethora of larger macroeconomic sanctions the west is levying on russia, but these targeted sanction, the ones custom built to take away toys from russia's wealthiest most powerful individuals in hopes they throw a fit and make it harder for putin on wage his war, those sanctions are full steam ahead. 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(soft music) ♪ before we go tonight, a reminder, rachel is now here on monday, so don't forget if you dvr the rachel maddow show, you need to set your dvr to record msnbc prime too, rachel on monday, and msnbc prime tuesday through friday, all produced by rachel's great team. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. new reporting on the role u.s. intelligence is playing in ukraine, success on the battlefield including the sinking of russia's most lethal war ship. the concern by some u.s. officials about vladimir putin's response. live reports from on the ground in ukraine. as intense fighting rages on inside of that steel plant in mariupol. and senate democrats who don't have the numbers and are scheduled to vote anywhere to codify abortion rights into federal law. we will show you what key senators are saying about the legislation.

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to package an emotional punch. this is 1954, a mom and little girl sitting on the steps after the court rufled that it was unconstitutional to segregate schools. this week there were demonstrations in front of the high court although this time not to celebrate the protection of a right but to protest that one important one is about to be taken a way. in least the draft opinion that leaked from the court this week signaling that the court is poised to take away the enshrined right to obtain an abortion, protests outside the court have taken place every day. moms brought their daughters, even their little babies. these are affecting images. they may be the last ones we get from any future protests outside the court over this particular issue roe v. wade. now, the giant chain linked unclimbable fence that was put up outside the supreme court. shy note for the record that in the fight over abortion rights in this country, the side of in favor of maintaining that right, the side of maintaining that on the steps this week, that has not been the side that has been historically been violent. all of the gatherings in front of the court have been peaceful but after an angry mob of trump supporters tried to stage a coup on january 6th, 2020, this is what we get. for months it has been the expectation that this court too woo knock down roe v. wade, it did catch people off guard including the white house. the biden administration has been scrambling to figure out this week if and how there is a way to compensate for what the court appears to be prepared and ready to do. to protect the abortion rights on the federal level. quote, biden ficials spent much of tuesday panicked as they realized how few tools they had at their disposal. officials are fervently debating a number of executive and regulatory actions that the administration could take to make it easier for women in red state, particularly poor women to access abortion care. but in marathon meetings and phone calls among white house official, government lawyers, outside advisers, and federal agency officials, a sobering reality settled in. there is little that the white house can do that will fundamentally alter a post-roe landscape. end quote. without a large majority in the senate, that's true for democrats in congress, too. next week senate is expected to vote on the women's act which would codify the right to an abortion in this country. the bill passed the house but almost certainly dead on arifle in the senate. that's because democrats need 60 votes to pass the bill in the senate. that filibuster thing again. and that is far more votes than they've got. there's no way to spin this. a federal fix to restore abortion rights is essentially an impossibility. and that's gotten the gears going of some creative legal thinkers in the states. let's take a look at michigan which appears to be turning into kind of a test lab for states to get around the court's decision and protect the rights to obtain an abortion at the state level. michigan like most states has a lot of cookie laws that are still on the books, vestiges from a different time. for example, did you know that in the city of grand haven, michigan, it is illegal to throw an abandoned hoop skirt into any street or sidewalk? it is also apparently illegal to let your pig run free down the streets in detroit, if it does not have its nose pierced. but who even has a pig without its nose pierced. and according to michigan law, it is illegal to obtain an abortion under any circumstances still right now today. that law was passed in 1931. and it remains on the books. now, when you break the law, due get magically teleported to prin, you have to be charged with a crime, you have to be prosecuted, that is why if you decide to chuck your hoop skirt on your sidewalk in front of your house in michigan tomorrow, no one is coming to arrest you, no prosecutor in their right mind would try that case in 2022, the same reason that michigan has two dozen clinics that provide abortion all over the state even though it is technically against the law in michigan. roe v. wade made that michigan law unenforceable. but when roe gets knocked down as signaled by the draft opinion from the supreme court, that opens the door for prosecutors to enforce that michigan law. the second that the supreme court issues that opinion. but of course, just like with the pigs, who don't have nose peerings, or the hoop skirts littering michigan sidewalks, doing that, prosecuting that, is up to the prosecutors. the prosecutor in michigan's largest county, wayne county, which is home to detroit, says if and when roe is struck down, she will not prosecute anyone for providing or obtaining abortion care within her jurisdiction. which means wayne county, the detroit, will become a kind of a safe haven within michigan for abortion care. same for washtenaw county where ann arbor system the prosecutor there says he will never ever prosecute a patient or provider for breaking michigan's ban on abortion. in fact, a total of seven michigan county prosecutors signaled last month that they would do the same thing. even michigan's attorney general says no matter how the supreme court decides quote i am not going to enforce the law, nor will i defend the law which i believe is unconstitutional. end quote. when the court returns its official position, republican lawmakers in michigan can decide to leave that abortion ban on the books or pass some kind of new legislation, severely curtailing access. heck, they could ban people from saying the word outloud like voldemort if they wanted. but without those prosecutors on board willing to enforce it, the law is a waste of paper. one legal parachute discussed in michigan. here is another. earlier this year planned parenthood and the aclu started a campaign to add the right to obtain an abortion to the michigan state constitution. their pitch is to make it a ballot initiative in november so michigan voters can decide if they want to protect abortion rights in their state. now, they would need about 425,000 signatures to get it on the ballot. the group gathering signatures said in just 24 hours, after the draft opinion leaked, the number of volunteers signed up to help gather those 425,000 signatures increased by more than 900 people. like i said, creative thinking. but could any of this actually work? joining us now is nicole wells stallward, the executive director of planned parenthood advocates of michigan one of the groups collecting signatures for the ballots to amend michigan's constitution to guarantee abortion rights. thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> let's talk about this. you have until mid july to collect 425,000 signatures and you have a whole lot of people, more people, 900 more people than were involved in this last week. how far along in that effort? how difficult will it be to get 425,000 signatures? >> well, we're up to 17,000 sign-ups as of wednesday, when the news broke. so that is a signal to us that people are outraged. people believe overwhelming here in the state of michigan that abortion should be kept legal and they do not want roe v. wade to be overturned. so we are working digitally, there has been a groundswell of people stepping up to join our campaign, my reproductive freedom for all, and we are working around the clock to collect the 425,059 signatures that will be needed to qualify for the ballot in july. >> let's talk about that. let's say you get enough signatures. if this is still a ballot measure, it has to pass. what kind of insight do you have on whether it will, because the evidence cross-country, is that a whole lot of people do not want to see abortion criminalized. even if they have differing views on abortion. >> sure. i think, you know, you have to really go back to what you just said, a whole lot of people around the country don't believe that abortion should be criminalized, and here in michigan, we do have this 1931 law on the books that if roe v. wade is reversed, could make abortion a felony crime. and that would be one of the most severe and most strict laws in the state, in the country, so people in michigan don't believe that that should occur. people in michigan feel overwhelmingly that abortion should be legal to the degree of about 67%. so the decision to leak the draft opinion was a wakeup call for many people. and it provided a view for people to understand exactly where we are, right now, helping them to understand that this is not a dress rehearsal, that the supreme court is positioned and prepared to overturn roe v. wade. it also, this campaign, was a way that we believed we could save abortion in our state of michigan. >> so before this week, and it shouldn't have been an abstraction to anyone but it might have been, the overturning of roe v. wade, as of the leak of the draft opinion, it's no longer an abstraction, and by the time this becomes a valid initiative if you get the 425,000 signatures it may be a reality if roe v. wade is overturned because this is a november ballot initiative. what happens if it doesn't pass? >> you know, that is, that's a question mark, right now, you sort of talked a lot about all of the things that we're doing, in our state, to protect access to abortion for the 2.2 pregnant capable people who this law would ultimately impact. so for women, and people who can get pregnant, that would have devastating effects on them. what happens if this doesn't get passed, right now, we are exploring a, this ballot measure, as we have been talking about, but planned parenthood of michigan has also filed a lawsuit, where we're asking the court to step in and to strike down the law. worst case scenario, if none of those strategies work, we would be left without access to abortion with this 1931 law, which has been on our books, which in essence criminalizes providers for providing a vital and needed health care service that people have enjoyed for over 50 years. >> we appreciate you coming to tell us about this, and the work that's going on. the executive director of planned parenthood advocates of michigan. we're grateful for your time tonight. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. well, as i mentioned earlier, michigan's attorney general as well as numerous county prosecutors have said they will not enforce that 1931 abortion ban, should the supreme court follow through in overturning roe v. wade. in fact, in a joint statement last month, seven of michigan's county prosecutors wrote, quote, we are reassuring our communities that we support a woman's right to choose and every person's right to reproductive freedom. end quote. we believe those laws are in conflict, it goes on, with the oath we took to support the united states and michigan constitutions. we cannot and will not support criminalizing reproductive freedom. instead, we will continue to dedicate our limited resources toward the prosecution of serious crimes and the pursuit of justice for all. prosecutor in michigan's largest county, wayne county, where detroit is located signed on to that statement last month, wayne county prosecutor kim worthy reiterated her stance this week saying she will not enforce the state's 1931 abortion ban if roe is overturned. prosecutor worthy joins us right now. thank you for taking time to be with us tonight. let me ask you about this. you and your fellow prosecutors in michigan issued this statement last month. well before anybody thought there was a draft opinion that was going to be leaked. why did you feel it necessary to do it then as opposed to wait for a supreme court decision on roe v. wade? >> well, for many reasons but the main reason is because our governor is so invested in this issue and we want to make sure that she understood that the six of us would certainly support her position in every way in this matter. >> you have publicly declared your support for roe v. wade, you pled that you won't prosecute the doctors and people who work at clinics for performing abortions if the law comes back into play, if roe v. wade is struck down and your anti-abortion law in michigan now takes precedence. are you concerned that michiganders, even those within wayne county, could be investigated or arrested if that law, that 1931 law comes back to life in michigan? >> well, i hope not because i have the criminal jurisdiction in wayne county. and i can't speak about how other prosecutors, other counties that are not one of the six of us will do but again this is a very restrictive law as nicole said, and you can say a patient, a doctor, a nurse, a health provider, can face up to four years in prison, under the current law that's almost a century old, as you said. and also, it does not give any provision or exemption for victims of rape and incest. and as someone who has peered into the eyes of year, hundreds and hundreds of victims of rape and incest, i cannot believe that people want to enter into their trauma and try to dictate their lives as well. so in wayne county, that will not be the case. and i am going to do everything that i can to support the victims that will probably be here, but i support the attorney general, the governor and i want to make sure that this is, all of my resources, to make sure that this law is repealed. >> let me ask you, because i got you here and i think it would help our viewers understand, how would you handle the possibility for instance if people from counties where prosecutors are prepared to enforce this 90-year-old law, will come to wayne county, seeking the procedure, without repercussion or is there a way providers would face legal action in their home county or someone lives somewhere else, how does that work? >> no, if the procedure is done here in wayne county and we are the i believe 13 counties that have these abortion clinics, then we would have full jurisdiction of that because the action was taking place here in wayne county. so i can't imagine any scenario where when they go back to their respective counties if that is not the feeling of the prosecutor there that they would be in any trouble at all. i can't imagine any such scenario. >> the attorney general in your state, up for re-election this year. tell me what happens if her opponent, who is campaigning on this very strongly anti-abortion, decides that he will prosecutor those who have abortions, how does the state's position, how does that work, in wayne county, somebody gets an abortion in wayne county, that's your jurisdiction, but the state attorney general may not ultimately be on your side of this? >> well, at least one of the candidate, the candidates that the republicans have chose has said that he will enforce. that but i can't imagine anyone coming in this county would do that, but if he has jurisdiction across the entire state, that makes it even more of a clarion call for those citizens in the state of michigan, and again, our poll numbers are basically the same as the ones across this country, 70% of michigander does not agree that roe v. wade should be overturned so again, it is up to us to get out there, and not even want to face that possibility that that could happen, and make sure that dan nestle is re-elected because we can trust her and we know she will not support any kind of -- >> so to your point here, that is that you are a prosecutor, you have jurisdiction where you have jurisdiction, but ultimately, it's limited. the long-term solution for this problem is ultimately going to be political. >> politics is everything. and that's certainly the case in this state, it has been so politicized, that's really the only answer at this particular point in time. we simply can't have a situation where people have controls of parts of women's bodies, that they have controls over the reap duck tive rights and it is ridiculous, it is political. and if this doesn't get people to vote for candidates, to support the way that most michiganders feel, i don't know what will. i don't want to imagine that scenario, i want to remain optimistic that people want to see women to have right to bear control of their own bodies and reproductive rights. >> we appreciate your time tonight. thank you. a lot more to catch up on tonight. perhaps one of the more surprising things about the war in ukraine is how many russian generals have been killed in action and the u.s. is reportedly helping ukraine target those jns. the reporter who broke that story joining us next. the repor story joining us next. its invasion of ukraine, when this story broke, quote, the russian military has lost at least three generals in the fight, according to ukrainian, nato, and russian officials. two american military officials said that many russian generals are talking on unsecured phones, and radios. in at least one instance, they said the ukrainians intercepted a general's call, geo-located it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff. end quote. the details about ukrainian tracking russian military leaders through unsecured phones and radios was first reported in the very last paragraph of a "new york times" story by reporters helene cooper, julian barnes and eric schmitt. since then, we've seen an astounding number of reports about senior level russian military leaders killed in action in ukraine. now, nbc news cannot verify each and every one of these reports but at least a few of them have been verified by news outlets likele "new york times" and even by russian media itself and today we got this provocative headline from the "times," u.s. intelligence is helping ukraine kill russian generals, officials say. now, the story is written by the same three reporters who broke that story about the russian generals being targeted through their phones, just three weeks into the war. according to the new report, the united states has been providing ukraine with intelligence on russia's military units which quote has allowed ukrainians to target and kill many of the russian generals who died in action in the ukraine war. this new reporting from the times would help explain why so many russian commanders and generals have found themselves on the wrong end of ukrainian missiles. and it would be consistent with nbc's own reporting from last month which said that the u.s. is providing near realtime intelligence on russia's military movements, but after "the new york times" published today's story, saying u.s. intelligence was helping ukraine kill russian generals, jean oru.s. military intelligence officials started pushing back in very strong terms. a spokesperson from the national security council called the story's headline misleading and called the story itself irresponsible. they said, quote, the united states provides battlefield intelligence to help the ukrainians defend their country. we do not provide intelligence with the intent to kill russian generals. end quote. but a little bit later the pentagon spokesman john kirby also said that. >> we do not provide intelligence on the location of senior military leaders on the battlefield or participate in the targeting decisions of the ukrainian military. >> we do not provide intelligence on the location of senior military leaders on the battlefield or participate in the targeting decisions of the ukrainian military. end quote. full stop. now, here's the interesting part. neither the nsc statement or what kirby said actually contradicts "the new york times" reporting, the times does not say that the u.s. provided this intelligence with the intent to kill russian military leaders, or that they participated in the decision to target those leaders. but the pushback here says something about the, how the u.s. wants the world, or maybe it's russia, to understand its involvement in the war. nbc news has reported another story this evening u.s. intelligence playing a key role in ukrainian attack, according to official, u.s. intelligence sharing helped ukraine carry out the missile strike that targeted the russian black sea vessel the moskva, the attack happened after ukrainian forces asked the americans about a ship sailing in the black sea, and identified it as the moskva and helped confirm the location, after which the ukrainians targeted the ship. tonight "the new york times" has independently confirmed that report. so what does this reporting mean for the ongoing conflict in ukraine? and how should we interpret the response that it generated inside our own government? joining us now is the "new york times" national security reporter julian barnes, he is the lead by line on that story, about u.s. intelligence being used to target russian generals. julian, thank you for joining us tonight. i have to ask you, you've been doing this for a long time, you report on these things, sometimes the government doesn't like what the press reports on stuff, this has had an unusually strong feeling of pushback. why? >> look, i think the u.s. officials are very worried about the escalation situation. they're very worried about putin going out what they call the escalation ladder. and you're right there. was some very sort of strong language out of the nsc and the pentagon, but they weren't really disputing what was in our story. we weren't saying there was an intent to kill. we didn't use that language. what we're saying is that the u.s. provided intelligence about the locations of mobile headquarters. ukrainians combined that with their own intelligence, intelligence like those intercepted calls you mentioned, and then chose when and where to strike. we explained that in the story. that is what is happening. and look, like this administration has properly proceeded carefully, in trying to not escalate the ukraine war. and that's the right thing to do. but it's also important to be transparent about what the united states is doing. they've said they've been providing unprecedented amounts of intelligence, and it is the responsibility of a free and independent nation to explain that. >> so let's talk about that. how much of this is semantics. because the pushback was very specific about what they did or didn't say and the crux of your reporting and our reporting at nbc news is the same. it is, the government has not pushed back on the fundamental idea that u.s. intelligence is being used in some way that is sifting the ukrainians. so talk to me the smantsices. because vladimir putin has said from the beginning of this thing that the u.s. is escalating this and the u.s. is essentially involved but there seems to be some kind of line that the u.s. is unwilling to cross for fear of provoking vladimir putin into thinking otherwise. >> look, the word they clearly do not like today, that kirby made plain, the white house made plain is this word targeting. they're claiming they're not targeting russian generals. and you know, we didn't specifically say that. but why do you provide this intelligence to ukraine? this is so they can target and kill russian forces, including russian generals. it's, this is a war, that's what warring parties do. so it is a little bit dn disingenuous, it is a little double speak to say that's not what this intelligence is for. the intelligence is for fighting a war. >> the russian military, pack to the core of the story, puts a lot more of the high ranking officers on the battlefield compared to other nations. talk to me about this. are the ukrainians using that to their advantage? are the russians learning a lesson that maybe we ought to stop putting these generals in the line of fire? >> the ukrainians are clearly using it to their advantage. the russians, i think, would love to change, it but they can't. because this is how their military is structured. look, in the u.s. military, in nato militaries, there's a lot of responsibility pushed down as close to the front lines as possible. you know, in the u.s. army, a private has a lot of responsibility to make a decision on whether to shoot or not. you know, a lieutenant colonel commanding a battalion has a lot of responsibility to alter the battle plans in their area to be as effective as possible. that's not true in the russian military. in the russian military, a junior officer, an enlisted person, can't make their own decision, they can't alter the plan. only the general officers alter the plan. to be able to know how to alter the plan, you need to be at the front line so they're pushing their general officers really close to the front lines of the battle. and ukraine has been able to take advantage of that. >> let me go back to your reporting. obviously, without getting into your sources for the story, this information came from somewhere, somebody in the u.s. government wanted this information to become public. why? >> it's always hard for reporters to answer those, but there's a lot of misunderstanding about how national security reporting works. you know, sometimes there are platters with all of the information handed out. that's not usually how it happens. usually you got a little bit of information here, a little bit of information there, and you put it together, and you see, talk to other people, you see if it's right, and you put together, a story, and then you test that again. you test your theories. are you, you test your information is, it correct? it's not like somebody want the whole story to come out. it's not like somebody wants the whole story to come out but i think there are people who think this information is nonescalatory and will not push putin up the ladder and there is a, there is some benefit in completely knowing how much support the ukrainians are getting, how tough a fight we have on his hands, and he certainly knows, that and with $33 billion in aid coming, and a big flow of information, this is going to be a long tough fight if putin wants to continue and i think that's part of the message that some people want out. >> and late january, early february, when we were talking about this fight, and the way it was supposed to go a lot of people didn't think the ukrainian military would have what it would take to fight russia and the idea that they got more than what russia thought they would do and some of that with the help of the united states is relevant. thanks for your great reporting by you and your team, "the new york times" national security reporter julian barnes, we appreciate it. >> thank you. up next, as russia ups its attacks on civilian targets, including this bridge full of cars, we'll talk live with npr's tim mack covering the war in ukraine since it started. stay with us. ukraine since it started stay with us ! yes, from colonial penn. your 995 plan fits my budget just right. excuse me? aren't you jonathan from tv, that 995 plan? yes, from colonial penn. i love your lifetime rate lock. that's what sold me. she thinks you're 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(soft music) ♪ this? this is supersonic wifi from xfinity. it's fast. like, ready-for- major-gig-speeds fast. like riding-a-cheetah fast. isn't that right, girl? whoa! it can connect hundreds of devices at once. [ in unison ] that's powerful. couldn't have said it better myself. and with three times the bandwidth, the gaming never has to end. slaying is our business. and business is good. unbeatable internet from xfinity. made to do anything so you can do anything. thanks, paul. my fellow xfinity customers! the biggest week in entertainment is here! watchathon week presented by xfinity rewards! with free access to stranger things from netflix, the boys from prime video, starz, hbo max, and peacock. and we'll make this a national holiday. nay. holi-week. just say watchathon into your voice remote to watch now. the last pocket of resistance in the ukrainian city of mariupol is still holding out against russian troops that are bombarding them with around the clock shelling. take a look at this video which shows the fighting in the city's steel plant azovstal where the few hundred ukrainians are holed up in underground bunkers. heavy bloody fighting is hindering any ukrainians getting out of the path of the russian shelling. the last evacuees from mariupol arrived in zaporizhzhia overnight. president zelenskyy says the government is still negotiating for another evacuation from the city. just remember they have to negotiate. this is the red cross. they have to negotiate to get civilians out of the way of shelling. across ukraine, the fight is intensifying, just days before victory day. which is an important day on the russian calendar. it is a holiday celebrating the soviet union's victory over nazi germany. it's really the most patriotic day on the calendar. and there is growing speculation that vladimir putin wants to mark the holiday on monday with a win on the battlefield. today the kremlin claims the artillery has killed more than 600 ukrainian fighters overnight. during strikes on their positions and strong holds this. follows attacks on ukraine's infrastructure over the last few days like this strike, watch it, on a bridge, that carried both cars and trains, in the central ukrainian city of dnipro. the bridge hit as cars were crossing. missile strikes caused major damage at three electrical substations in lviv, delaying trains to a city that has become a critical hub for aid that flows into the country from eastern europe and knocked out power to hundreds thousands and no obvious strategicic value when russian rockets struck an amusement park, leaving a woman with shrapnel wounds and starting a fire. in kramatorsk, two dozen people were wounded and we were in kramatorsk earlier this week, a city that has seen 75% of the population flee the war. it is also the target of a deadly strike near its train station, you will remember this, that killed 59 people. joining us now, from kyiv, is tim mack, npr investigative correspondent. he has been reporting from ukraine since the start of the war. tim, thanks for being here. thank you for being with us. let's talk about your experience, please, in kramatorsk, which is due north of mariupol. it's in donetsk in the eastern part of russia that is being fought over, those who remain there, continue to face shelling. there are critical shortages of fuel and food. there's infrastructure and communications failures. how are people still coping, those who have not left? >> well, its a a real ghost town. and the possession who are still in these areas, in this russian offensive, it is continuing, they're there because they are on a military mission, a humanitarian mission, or they have no choice but to stay. there are a lot of folks who just don't have the means to leave eastern ukraine. they've called their home their entire lives. i've spoken to some folks who said hey i've been saving up to purchase this apartment for most of my life. how can i possibly leave or i don't have the money to go somewhere else, and if i did arrive somewhere else in ukraine, at some point further west, where would i go? where would i live? how would i find food? and this is the real struggle. the issue in ukraine is to look out the window and just take a little listen, and you hear the sound of bombardment almost constantly. throughout the day. and even those sounds of bombardment are combined with flashes of light, and i spoke to the mayor of kramatorsk, and even as we were talking, in the underground bomb shelter, you could hear the sound of bombing outside. and becoming emotionally numb to it. and almost a part of the daily routine. and predicted in one or two months, he won't have any emotions about this war, fighting at all. >> there's a reporter we spoke with last night, from the "washington post," who said something similar, that the children have been living with their parents under ground, in a bunker, and at first they were crying and scared by the bombing and suddenly they seemed numb to it all, and that's when the mother said, we've got to go. because she was actually worried there would be no reaction. it is remarkable that you point out something important, that there have been millions of refugees, and millions more internally displaced in ukraine, it's a terrible experience. getting away from what seems obvious, getting away from shelling is one thing but going to some place where you don't know anybody or don't have a means to gain an income, it's a very, very, very profoundly big discussion, especially if you're leaving somebody behind. >> that's right. war is definitely about violence and there's certainly a lot of that in ukraine. there's certainly death. but it is also about crying children. it's also about women with worried faces, men not knowing where to go. it's about the people at train stations who have been sitting in train cars for 16 or 18 hours. because there are train delays. you've spoken about the attacks on infrastructure. and some of that infrastructure has been on bridges like you mentioned, but some also on rail stations and a number of rail stations were hit over the past week by apparent russian strikes. and so that delays the movement of civilians across this country. and that delays humanitarian aid. what does this all mean for people? that means difficulty, difficulty leaving the places where there is violence, and leaving ukraine to get to places that are safer, as you point out, even western ukraine has been hit, which means one of the places which has been relatively safe in ukraine, some folks may believe is no longer safe for them. >> let's talk about this monday victory day. there's a lot of speculation, and there has been thrust this entire war, particularly by ukrainian, about the fact that victory day is such an important thing, and in a country like russia, the ability of vladimir putin on convey and express power might be important. are you hearing about this, about people worrying about what happens either on monday or immediately leading up to monday? >> well, the idea of victory day and being an important strategic objective for the russian military and vladimir putin that is something on the minds of i think a lot of ukrainian military officials and government officials for a long time. and the question is, will they be able to deny the russian military some days in eastern ukraine. as you know, the russian military has started this offensive, continued this offensive, and is escalating this offensive, which strikes all across the country, in western, central, southern, eastern, all across the country, and it looks like the ukrainian military has been able to play a part in whether or not russia gets to celebrate its victory day the way vladimir putin and the russian generals might want to. they've been denying and slowing down the russian advance, which is really struggle told make progress in critical areas. in kramatorsk, still held by ukrainian military forces and there is fierce fighting just down the road there, and points north, but as you can see, by looking at various maps of the battlefield, the ukrainian lines are holding stalling. the russian forces as they try to push forward, there hasn't been any dramatic break throughs. >> thanks again for your excellent reporting on this. tim mack is an npr investigative reporting right now in kyiv. we appreciate you making time for us. it is not late, it is very early there for you so thank you, sir. well, two things that i learned today, the first is that 4 d, not 3 d movie theaters actually exist and the u.s. government is the proud owner of one of those theaters and it happens to be on a boat. the reason we all know own one is up next. the reason we all know own one is up next you know those 4 d movie theaters, the ones where the seats shake when the action happens in the movie? the u.s. government and i guess you now own one of those and believe it or not it is on this thing. this is the 348-foot-long, $300 million super yacht amadea. authorities in fiji where it is docked seized ship at the request of the united states as part of the clepto capture task force. the justice department hunted thu this ship down specifically because it longs to this man, the sanctioned russian oligarch who made his money in russian energy and banks. the impact of sanctions is lard to see but this is easy to see. the thing is to in your face, about how expensive it, it is insane. this super yacht, not a lot, the super yacht, it's got a 33-foot see through pool, a second pool that can be turned into a stage, a jacuzzi, a helicopter landing pad because you need one of those. it's got a spa with a finished sauna and a turkish bath a massage room. and a gym. the thing has a wine cellular. and enough rooms for 16 guests. and multiple formal dining room tables. two pianos. one of which is entirely detailed in 24-karat gold, and sue ba gear and a jet pack. i wouldn't have gone with the 4 d movie theater but this is hout russian oligarch chose to spend his fortune and to put pressure on russia to get this oligarch to feel some pain because of the russian war on ukraine, the u.s. has taken away its very expensive toy. russian oligarchs are not just rich russians, they are russians who are rich because of their ties to vladimir putin. he makes them rich. they make him powerful. and if it feels day ja sioux view, since the start of the -- deja vu, since the start of the war in ukraine, authorities have been cracking down on, this french authorities captured a $120 million yacht. italian authorities snagged three oligarch's yachts, one worth $65 million and another worth just $60 million. the third one worth $578 million. spanish authorities have seized four russian oligarchs' yachts coming in a total of $840 million. the u.k. caught two of them, about $125 million, between them, just little ones, and germany impounded this $600 million super yacht which despite the price tag someone decided to name dilbar. all of this is sanctions at work. at least for the u.s. president biden is proposing that all of the russian assets seized during this war would be given to ukraine. now that's yet to become law. but that is where it looks like the u.s. is headed. i know there are a plethora of larger macroeconomic sanctions the west is levying on russia, but these targeted sanction, the ones custom built to take away toys from russia's wealthiest most powerful individuals in hopes they throw a fit and make it harder for putin on wage his war, those sanctions are full steam ahead. (woman) oh. oh! hi there. you're jonathan, right? the 995 plan! yes, from colonial penn. your 995 plan fits my budget just right. excuse me? aren't you jonathan from tv, that 995 plan? yes, from colonial penn. i love your lifetime rate lock. that's what sold me. she thinks you're jonathan, with the 995 plan. -are you? -yes, from colonial penn. we were concerned we couldn't get coverage, but it was easy with the 995 plan. -thank you. -you're welcome. i'm jonathan for colonial penn life insurance company. this guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance plan is our #1 most popular plan. it's loaded with guarantees. if you're age 50 to 85, $9.95 a month buys whole life insurance with guaranteed acceptance. you cannot be turned down for any health reason. there are no health questions and no medical exam. and here's another guarantee you can count on: guaranteed lifetime coverage. your insurance can never be cancelled. just pay your premiums. guaranteed lifetime rate lock. your rate can never increase. pardon me, i'm curious. how can i learn more about this popular 995 plan? it's easy. just call the toll-free number for free information. (soft music) ♪ before we go tonight, a reminder, rachel is now here on monday, so don't forget if you dvr the rachel maddow show, you need to set your dvr to record msnbc prime too, rachel on monday, and msnbc prime tuesday through friday, all produced by rachel's great team. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is up next. new reporting on the role u.s. intelligence is playing in ukraine, success on the battlefield including the sinking of russia's most lethal war ship. the concern by some u.s. officials about vladimir putin's response. live reports from on the ground in ukraine. as intense fighting rages on inside of that steel plant in mariupol. and senate democrats who don't have the numbers and are scheduled to vote anywhere to codify abortion rights into federal law. we will show you what key senators are saying about the legislation.

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