good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. most news development that we cover here impact the world incremental or even imperceptible ways. and then there are some that cleave the world into a before and after. that was the case with the covid-19 pandemic, january 6th, the election of donald trump. and now potentially, the overturning of roe v. wade. now, to be really clear as we start tonight's program, we do not know for certain that the supreme court will overturn roe. but we begin tonight's show processing the fallout from that leaked 98-page draft from the court author by far-right justice samuel alito and published by politico. which indicates that the court will overturn roe as well as planned parenthood versus casey. another key ruling that upholds abortion rights. quote, we hold that roe and casey must be overruled. the constitution makes no reference to abortion and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision. now, chief justice john roberts today has confirmed the leaks voracity, vowed to find the leaker. according to the draft, as of now there are five of the six conservative justices who appear to want to overturn roe. ready to do it, right now it's unclear how roberts, the chief justice plants and voting. if this opinion were to be issued by the supreme court, this draft decision would signal the end of reproductive rights for tens of millions of americans. about half the u.s. state. and that reality has sent a shockwave throughout the united states. already, we've seen a race to donate money to local entities abortion funds that provide reproductive health care. as well as national organizations fighting for reproductive rights. funds which helps pregnant people access abortions if they so choose. in the last hour, vice president kamala harris spoke to political action committee emily's list which works to elect women candidates who are pro abortion rights. and she spoke out forcefully against those who wish to legislate reproductive rights out of existence. >> if the court overturns roe v. wade, it will be a direct assault on freedom. on the fundamental right of self determination. to which all americans are entitled. those republican leaders, who are trying to weaponize the use of the law against women, well, we say how there are they? how dare they tell a woman what she can do and cannot do with her own body? how dare they? [applause] how dare they tried to stop her from determining her own future? how dare they? try to deny women their rights. and their freedoms. >> similar sentiments across the country today. activists have been demonstrating at the supreme court of the story first broke. a little under 24 hours ago. including a number of democratic senators who joined the protests in solidarity. today, senetor elizabeth warren of massachusetts will be joining us in just a moment. delivered an impassioned speech in defense of abortion rights and called on congress to enshrine access to abortion in federal law. >> well, i am here because i am angry, and i am here because the united states congress can change all of this. angry but committed. understand this. i have seen the world where abortion is illegal. and we are not going back. not ever. so say it with me. we are not going back. >> we are not going back! >> not ever. not ever!. never! >> there have been other impromptu protests across the country. here in new york city, protesters gathered foley square near a number of federal buildings including the u.s. court of appeals for the second circuit. for an event to, quote, channel regime to action. in boston protesters gathered outside city hall with chance insigne supporting abortion rights. dozens of demonstrators outside a federal courthouse in reno nevada. a large group took to the streets of richmond virginia in support of planned parenthood. protests in chicago, columbia, missouri, raleigh, north carolina, orlando, florida, austin, texas. texas right now is ground zero for the fight for reproductive justice. row is effectively already an operative there, it has been since october. after the supreme court refused to block the states frequently on constitutional law which effectively puts 10,000 dollar bounties on people seeking abortion. allow citizens to sue citizens or doctors. the reality in texas, unless you can afford to travel to a different state, you are right now effectively unable to obtain access to an abortion. which means tens of thousands potentially millions apart of people who are forced to give birth. that's even if their pregnancies are the result of rape or incest. and that will be the reality for millions of more americans if and when roe is overturned and more than a dozen states immediately ban abortion. and to be absolutely clear, that's the outcome republicans and conservatives want. that is where they've been fighting for for over the past half century. and yet, when faced with the prospect of their imminent culminating victory. what do they do? what they do best, they wine. they whine about the process. today, mitch mcconnell of kentucky, to republican of the senate did not even mention burrow or abortion in his initial remarks to reporters. instead lamenting the fact that the draft decision was leaked at all. again, this is been the desired results of mcconnell's decade plus campbell to stack the supreme court. this is one of the reasons why he took the holy unprecedented step of blocking president barack obama from filling justice antonin scalia seat and putting merrick garland on the court. it is why he abolish the filibuster for supreme court justices. one of the first things he did to push neil gorsuch on the courts in scalia's place. it is why he backed brett kavanaugh even after he was accused of sexual assault his accuser came to testify under oath before the united states senate. push for the confirmation of amy coney barrett just days before presidential election when ruth bader ginsburg body was hardly in the ground. an election that is -- lost. he did it, mitch mcconnell. and he face the consequence of the choices, what did he do justice mcconnell wind. like they always do, about process. today the national republican senatorial committee actually disputed three pages talking points on this to help its members craft a coherent response. axios published a copy of that document which advise republicans to do a mcconnell did and blame the leaker. quote, the leak of this document is troubling and it's indicative of the radical left mission to undermine the institution of the supreme court and ultimately pack the court with liberal judges who overstepped the democrats radical agenda. to be clear, we do not know who leaked this raft. i know nothing, none of us know anything about the problem. it may well have been someone working for a conservative justice. who wants to make sure that none of the five justices who had one point sign on to do this don't affect. don't go weaken the knees. we should know that the republican party is not entirely united front that's opposition abortion. there are actually two sitting republican senators who at least on paper, in a kind of technical check out my website sense. support abortion rights. senator lisa murkowski of alaska and senator susan collins of maine. both women support the nomination of new york will search and sarah collins voted for brett kavanaugh as well. now susan collins today said she would be quote, it would be completely inconsistent with what justice gorsuch and justice kavanaugh said in their hearings in our meetings in our office they voted to overturn roe which i got news for you a queen to the reporting they will. no word yet on senator collins plans to do anything about it. that said, the next four parties are a bit unclear right now. we are in a very strange moment. the draft opinion is leaked, it's there, we already. we don't know what's happening behind closed doors. so what to do about it is sort of a little up in the air. today's elizabeth warren without an angry very clear of how republicans have amassed reminding this for years. >> i am angry. angry and upset and determined. the united states congress can make roe versus wade the law land, they just need to do it. >> i've never seen you so angry -- >> this is what the republicans have been working toward this day for decades. they have been out here plotting, carefully cultivating. the supreme court justices so they can have a majority on the bench who would accomplish something that the majority of americans do not want. >> joining me now is senator elizabeth warren, a democrat of massachusetts. senator, i think a lot, usually the way a lot of people you've chanelled the feeling in response to this. it's why i was very excited to have you on the program tonight. it's 24 hours since the news broke, you're out for the steps. you are one of 100 people in this country that have the job as a united states senator. what is your thinking right now about, as you process the last 24 hours, with the meaning of this is and what is next to be done? >> well, let's start with what's the meaning of this is. this is the culmination of decades of work by the republicans. they've gotten what they want, not a little chip away a row by just blasting the whole thing apart. and i think we all need to think about who's going to be most affected by this. who's going to bear the brunt of this. it's not going to be well to do women who can afford to get on an airplane and fly to another state or shoot, could even fly to another country. to get the abortion services they need. no, who this is going to fall on, this is going to fall on poor women, this is going to fall on black women, this is going to fall on girls who have been molested by someone in their family. this is going to fall on women who have been raped. this is going to fall on women who already are working two jobs and, in order to try and support their children that they have. those are the ones that will pay the price. those are the ones who can forget to take off work. those are the ones that can tell someone that they're pregnant until this is already gone way too far. those are the ones who can bear the cost of the privilege in the state legislatures and the privilege who sit on the united states supreme court and the privileged in the united states congress who facilitate a rule that falls on them. a rule that says, your dignity, your life, your future just doesn't matter. >> roe was decided 1973 and parted that there was a patchwork of laws across the country. in some states it was illegal to obtain an abortion. you said today, that you had seen firsthand what that's like. and i wonder, i haven't, i was born after that date. a lot of people watching this probably haven't. it's been a fair amount of time. what does that mean when you say you've seen this firsthand? >> i grew up in oklahoma, i grew up at a time when abortion was unlawful. and that means there were women who bled to death from back alley abortions. it means there were women who ended their own lives rather than carry forward a pregnancy that they could not bear. yeah and that's the world that the republican extremists are trying to recreate. and make no mistake about this, this is not one on which america is closely divided. this is not one, just in the last few months or even a few years we've all come together. for a long time now, it has been the case that the overwhelming majority of americans, by a margin of more than 2 to 1. say that they want roe v. wade to continue to be the law of the land. and that's true, red state, blue state, young people, old people, republicans and democrats. that's why the plan of the extremists has always been, not a frontal assault on roe through the legislative process but to go to the supreme court and just keep pushing for a more and more and more extremist supreme court. and that is why the danger that the supreme court now poses is out in full view for everyone. they are willing, not to try to couch this in hidden language, not to say a little now and then a little next year and a little bit here after that. they are willing to come in and just the last roe v. wade. two pieces because because they have the power to do it. well i have news for them. they can take away a woman's constitutional right, at least for a while. but the united states congress can come roaring back and pass a law to protect and even do a better job of protecting anyone. who needs or wants access to abortion. >> let's talk about that. so there are 50 united states democrats, 50 democrats in the some -- two of those democrats i think i've said they are opposed to the law that shrine wrote. that's ball case in pennsylvania and joe manchin. so this 48 votes. there are two republicans who are of sensibly supporters of abortion rights, lisa murkowski and susan collins. susan collins at this today. if this leak threats decision -- it would completely inconsistent with towards courses and cabinets in their hearings are medium office. obviously we won't know he's just a decision reasonable supreme court officially announces its opinion in the case i guess the question is. yes congress does, could do it. and i've heard a lot of people, there's a lot of anger out there, lot of people think of the democrats, semi fundraising you know about this. i'm going to lose my mind. like you have power, i need you to wield it so what do you say to that? >> so, i say this. first of all, let's all acknowledge. we do have the power to get this done. and so, our first step is going to be next week. we're going to vote this in the united states senate. and 50 votes, plus the vice president, that should be enough to do with the people of the united states want us to do by a margin of more than 2 to 1. however, we're going to face the filibuster. head on. and this is going to put it to everybody who tries to protect the filibuster one more time. we're going to run right into that. and we're going to have to address this question, the filibuster is not in the constitution of the united states. the filibuster was used for decades and decades and decades to keep us from passing an anti lynching law, over 100 years. the filibuster was used to keep us from passing voting rights and the other civil rights laws. the filibuster has just been used this year to prevent us from protecting the vote all across this country. so i think part of this is going to be, we're going to have to have that fight or more time around filibuster. and look, i look at it this way. if we don't have enough democrats get that job done right now, then give us some more democrats. and i actually want to put in a pitch, right now for something everybody who's watching this can do today. not just on down the line but right now today. there is about to be a primary down in texas for a congressional seat. henry cuellar, sits in that seat he is someone who is supported the texas abortion ban. he's someone who has voted against federal efforts. to try to over, to protect roe v. wade at the federal level. and he's running against a young woman, justice cisneros. who's terrific and who has a real chance to be him and who will fight. who will fight for a woman's right to make our own decisions about her right. and so if you're mad when you listen to this, send jessica cisneros ten bucks. if you can afford it, send her 25 bucks. if you can afford more, send more. but don't talk to me about how frustrated you are because you don't like our particular constellation of democrats. help us get some democrats elected who will actually make a difference. i'm mad, i'm ready to take action, but we need this entire nation to speak out. if the vast majority of people in this country want to see roe v. wade protected, then it's going to take all of us working on this and he, it may take a who will fight for a woman's right to make our own decisions about her right. and so if you're mad when you listen to this, send jessica cisneros ten bucks. if you can afford it, send her 25 bucks. if you can afford more, send more. but don't talk to me about how frustrated you are because you don't like our particular constellation of democrats. help us get some democrats elected who will actually make a difference. i'm mad, i'm ready to take action, but we need this entire nation to speak out. if the vast majority of people in this country want to see roe v. wade protected, then it's going to take all of us working on this and he, it may take a little patience, it may take a little frustration. but that's how we get there. and believe me, this is a fight worth having. >> senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts, thank so much for the time tonight, appreciate it. >> thank you. >> as we were just discussing, the central looming question overall this is what can be done. in some states that's a really urgent intentional question because, striking down roe would mean automatically that the same day, returning to antiabortion laws that were in place before roe. laws that are merely 100 years old. how one governors fighting to keep that from happening in her state before roe is officially decided after this. the sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now. why choose proven quality sleep from sleep number? 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(soft music) ♪ xfinity mobile runs on america's most reliable 5g network, but for up to half the price of verizon, so you have more money for more stuff. this phone? fewer groceries. this phone? more groceries! this phone? fewer concert tickets. this phone? more concert tickets. and not just for my shows. get $400 off an eligible samsung device with xfinity mobile. take the savings challenge at xfinitymobile.com/mysavings for one rows overturned, and or visit your xfinity store and talk to our switch squad today. abortion will be banned and how the country, 23 states have laws that go into effect the minute roll is struck down, including nine states, alabama, arizona, arkansas, michigan, mississippi, north carolina, wisconsin. all of a bush and down the were on the books before roe would go back into effect if roe were to be overturned. in michigan, the law was passed in 1931 and abounds abortion to lay save the life of the one who was pregnant, and contains no -- rule made it obsolete, but it's still state law, still in the books. northern publicans in control, both michigan's house and senate, unlike were revealed to this point. now, michigan's democratic senator as asking the supreme court to strengthen the abortion ban law before it can be forced again in a post row world. and michigan governor gretchen whitmer joins me now. governor, you initiated this several weeks ago before, of course, this document was leaked. just explain the legal situation here, because i don't think this is sunk into enough people how immediate the effect of the court issuing this report -- ruling could be in a state like yours. >> yeah, i think you're right. michigan would revert overnight on 1931 law and would make us have one of the most extreme anti abortion laws on the books. that means it would be a felony to receive or perform an abortion. and he's there is no exception for rape or incest. so as governor of michigan, i'm a constitutional right to bring a lawsuit to protect the rights of the people of the state. i'll say they believe the task a state supreme court to take that issue of directly. so those are two things that i started about a month ago. i filed this lawsuit because we saw where this was going in the united states supreme court. and we know we had to act to protect women in michigan. i don't know if he's gonna be successful, but i want to use every tool i can and i will fight like hell to protect this right for michigan women. >> just to go back, we will be a phony to receive an abortion under this law? >> oh, yeah. it is a criminal. yeah. despite the fact that 70% of people in michigan and across the nation support a woman's right to make her own decisions over her health care, we see that michigan would revert to overnight to having some of the most extreme laws on the book in the nation. going from a pro-choice state right now, and that's why despite all people might feel personally by abortion, the vast majority of people support women having this right to be able to make this choice for herself. >> so, yeah republican majorities in both houses of the legislature. and they will not work with you to repeal this law. this is the outcome they want to see happen. herself. >> so, yeah republican majorities in both houses of the legislature. and they will not work with you to repeal this law. this is the outcome they want to see happen. what are the chances in this lawsuit? is this a flyer in like a last-ditch effort? it's the real case here? >> there's a real case here. my legal team worked incredibly hard to make sure that this lawsuit has merit. that we have got a legitimate effort here to ensure that our supreme court recognizes a michigan constitution under equal -- the right to make our own choices for our health care and our bodies. and that's precisely why we're doing this. but we need people to join the fighting. and with 70% of people supporting those, that means the republicans who are supporting reboot reduction choice. and our business owner and business leaders the do as well. religious leaders. we need you to join the fight. men as well. this is something that is crucial for women and four families on for our health care and our billet-y to participate as americans with agency over our body. >> i don't play something by somebody who is running to challenge you. he's one of ten republican candidates who is trying to win the republican primary. in june, it could be creates that rollover to, and that 1931 law is operative, legally. whether you have people in power in the states and the governor attorney general who want to prosecute cases under the. i want to pursue resources to track down women and charge them and arrest them and bring felony criminal cases against them, that's gonna be a life question for the voters of michigan. here is sold donald talking about rape exams and whether they should have access to abortion and why they should, take a listen. >> but we must start to focus on is not only defended the na when it's created, but how about we start inspiring women and the culture the love them understand and know how heroically are. and how unbelievable that they are. they got put them in this moment, and they don't know that little baby inside them maybe ex president. >> my apologies for previously misgendering the social daniel, but that was the rhetoric. and i think that's fairly common throughout the country. that is something they're gonna be hearing, i imagine, from whatever republican faces when this election 2018, -- sorry, 2022. >> i think it's important to be clear. the vast majority of republicans also support a woman's reproductive choice. 70% of the population does. you know there are people of all political stripes that understand this is a fundamental freedom that women and only women can make the decisions are on their health care and their bodies. so that rhetoric is dangerous, and it's ignorant. and frankly, as a survivor, it is repugnant. that man should have no business making health care decisions for the women of michigan, or any woman in this country or certainly in my state. and, that's precisely why i'm fighting to protect this in the courts because, it shouldn't be up to a politician, it should be up to the united states supreme court individual justices. this is a decision that is squarely and soundly should be that of the woman, and she chooses to consult and trust in a health care physician, that's the only people they should be informing this decision. >> all right, governor gretchen whitmer, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> still to come, signs that rose just the beginning, when illegals draft opinion signals about with the courthouse and store. plus, as reproductive rights are thrust black, voters are turning out in the first primary of the midterms. the first big, one steve kornacki has the latest results, right after this. your projects done right . with angi, you can connect with and see ratings and reviews. and when you book and pay throug you're covered by our happiness check out angi.com today. angi... and done. it is primary election day in ohio, with voters picking their candidates for november's general election. the republican senate primary is the most watched race there is. serving as the first big test of donald trump's endorsement 20 way to. polls close just about one hour ago, we don't have a call in that contest we do have other results. nbc news projected congressman tim ryan will win his race for the democratic nomination for u.s. senate. and income are hooking governor mike dewine is also projected to win his primary as well. nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki as at the big board with the latest, steve. >> so chris like a look here at the republican primary. we see j. d. vance get about 60% of the vote in is leading early on. josh mandel. and then matt dolan, states under here, the one candidate and notably who donald trump has condemned and says does not want dolan winning this nomination. i think there's two dynamics that are coming into focus here right now. number one is that dole and core areas of strength or going to be the metropolitan area. so for instance, he's from cuyahoga county this or cleveland's, his family owns the cleveland guardians baseball team. we are seeing is basically the early vote. this is the via male, this is the early in-person vote. you already see dolan leading up with this vote. you've got a lot of votes still to come in. in cuyahoga county. he's going to do very well it looks like in places, give you another example. the state capital, franklin county, columbus, you're looking at the early vote already doled is cleaning up a lot to come. we have no vote yet in all the -- hamilton county this is where cincinnati is. so the metro areas, it looks like dolan is going to do very well tonight. and it looks like there's a lot of vote to come still from the metro areas around the state. so opportunity as the new vote comes in for dolan to move up. for vance, the question is going to be this. basically the rule of thumb across the state in ohio is, the first vote second reported and that looks like basically will we're looking at here. the first folks think a reported or the early votes as i say and the mail votes. and remember, the key to vance's campaign is the endorsement he got from donald trump. the endorsement income until about ten days into that early voting window. so we're getting some indications, one thing we're looking at in these counties as the votes start to commit is. were matching up the early vote totals with the same day totals. and we are seeing so far, it's early, haven't got a loss and a vote. but we are seeing a bulb for -- where he's doing better on the same day vote. the vote that was cast today. and there's geographic opportunity for dolan to move up. just given the sheer number of votes that are still to come from the places where it looks like he's going to clean up. and there's an opportunity here for vance to do better. when the same day vote start to come in right now. so mandel may end up squeezed a little bit here. and there's a really interesting dynamic here where vance and middle both really tether themselves try to tell themselves to the trump wing of the party. dolan did not. vance right now seems to be getting the better of middle slightly. but are they going to chew of so much, vance amendable, so much of that hard-core trump vote that it does create a pathway for dole and. that's where we're going to be (woman) oh. oh! hi there. you're jonathan, right? the 995 plan! yes, from colonial penn. your 995 plan fits my budget just right. excuse me? aren't you jonathan from tv, that 995 plan? yes, from colonial penn. i love your lifetime rate lock. that's what sold me. she thinks you're jonathan, with the 995 plan. -are you? -yes, from colonial penn. we were concerned we couldn't get coverage, but it was easy 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(soft music) ♪ i've been at this for over 50 years. fighting and -- i cannot believe that we have to do this all over again. to win a right that sars that we've had. and how their day take this away? >> i got really concerned, not only for myself but for my friends and family. it just really scared me, i guess it move me. >> as a person should have bottle me autonomy and you have a right to your own body. >> we have the right to health care. and we have the right to decide what we want to do with our bodies. >> it's been 24 hours since political broke the seismic news of a supreme court draft majority opinion striking on roe v. wade. thousands of people across the country are taking to the streets in protest. major metropolitan hubs like washington d. c. and new york city. but also in smaller cities like reno, nevada, knoxville, tennessee. all united by the sheer -- losing the constitutional right to legal abortion have been guaranteed for five decades. melissa murray is a professor constitutional law and york university, she clerk for -- justice sotomayor with the federals appears for judge. and he's written a pensively on the arne section of racing abortion. she's also a host of the podcast scrutiny with full disclosure my white case shaw and neil whitman. a large trump's constitutional law scholar he cleared for supreme court justice stewart back in the 1960s. he's a professor emeritus for harvard law school where he talked for her two years. as great have you both tonight. melissa, let me start with you just on the opinion. because it really is, it's very rare, in it's an president we have an undrafted opinion that we're reading in public. and it's a very extreme document, i think. what is your take away about the tax of the opinion itself? >> well this is an opinion that really leaves nothing to chance. it covers all of its bases, its left everything on the dance floor. justice alito in writing this has not only for close and eviscerated the right to an abortion. he does so in a ways i think actually worn some deeper analysis. not quite as tight and analysis is offered. but he basically closes all doors going forward, he leaves a blueprint for the states to challenge other rights like the right to same sex marriage, the right to international american contraception and so on. and he also leaves no room in here for congress to step in to preserve reproductive rights. in fact, there is a blueprint here, i think, to allow congress to step in and nationalize the illegal-ization of abortion by coming in with a -- amendment or some other kind of nationalization that with her four closest right across the country. so the idea that this is a settlement that reserves this to the states for state-by-state deliberation, i think that's more gaslighting. it is something that he says here but i can be opportunity for that is going to be relatively fleeting. >> so there is the blanket sort of abortion, she has the sort of covering all the bases as you said. leaving a blueprint for further action, legislative level. you also mentioned the sort of other unemployed a rights. the tradition of jurisprudence that comes out of -- due process and closed down through the criswell decision. which finds the right to privacy and to the access to birth control. marriage equality. your projects done right . with angi, you can connect with and see ratings and reviews. and when you book and pay throug you're covered by our happiness check out angi.com today. angi... and done. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? 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>> well this is an opinion that really leaves nothing to chance. it covers all of its bases, its left everything on the dance floor. justice alito in writing this has not only for close and eviscerated the right to an abortion. he does so in a ways i think actually worn some deeper analysis. not quite as tight and analysis is offered. but he basically closes all doors going forward, he leaves a blueprint for the states to challenge other rights like the right to same sex marriage, the right to international american contraception and so on. and he also leaves no room in here for congress to step in to preserve reproductive rights. in fact, there is a blueprint here, i think, to allow congress to step in and nationalize the illegal-ization of abortion by coming in with a -- amendment or some other kind of nationalization that with her four closest right across the country. so the idea that this is a settlement that reserves this to the states for state-by-state deliberation, i think that's more gaslighting. it is something that he says here but i can be opportunity for that is going to be relatively fleeting. >> so there is the blanket sort of abortion, she has the sort of covering all the bases as you said. leaving a blueprint for further action, legislative level. you also mentioned the sort of other unemployed a rights. the tradition of jurisprudence that comes out of -- due process and closed down through the criswell decision. which finds the right to privacy and to the access to birth control. marriage equality. professor tribe, you said reading the draft, you quickly learn that all the rights people have taken for granted, the right to decide who to marry, east birth control, with whom to have sex, endless freedoms will no longer be protected unless you can point to languish in the constitution expressly guaranteeing those rights. or convince five per supreme court justices they are deeply rooted in nation's history and tradition and implicit in the concept of liberty. that is the new task that toledo is proposing this opinion. >> it's a new tests and it's a test that would turn the clock back. at least half a century. in fact, it's interesting to note that justice alito carefully says that the first eight amendments to the constitution are ones we can look at in order to figure out what are the substantive rights. he convene lee doesn't mention the ninth which specifically says that the fact that are right right is not as for solicitor cannot be used to denigrate it. it's also amazing that he just tosses a quality out the window. he says there is this argument that restrictions on abortion, especially extreme ones, deprive women of the equal protection of the laws. because guess what, it's women who get pregnant and it is women who are at greatest risk from these strict abortion laws. but he says, that doesn't mean that it's gender discrimination. really? the reason he says that it's not gender discrimination is, guess what, we have president saying that it's not gender discrimination. now that's really rich for a decision that tosses 50 years a president aside, casually. to rely on president to say that there is no gender discrimination when you ban abortion. that really is the height of irony. and it's not just ironic, women in particular but ultimately all of us are relegated to a society in which we are not genuinely free over our most intimate choices. by a decision that -- as marie points out, congress cannot easily overcome much as i admire people like elizabeth warren for saying we've got to do something in congress. do something in congress and this court may well come back and say, you are overreaching. have the power to reaffirm rights to abortion. but maybe have the power to ban all abortion. because it's all -- the glasses both half whole and half empty at the same time. >> yeah, i mean that is of course the maddening nature of the entire originalist and textualist khan. they love the text of the constitution in the ninth amendment just complete disappearance. it's not deeply rooted but also we got this loving virginia problem which clearly we don't want to say, you can ban people from interracial marriage. so we'll just sort of kick that away. and generally, melissa, i wonder what you think weather theory on the leak or about, i don't think again are the most boring thing. but i do think this idea of why, that the extremism of the opinion was the thing that propelled the leaker. whether someone rang the alarm bells or someone wanting to enshrinement. and make sure there was no climbing down from the maximalism on this play in this. >> i think it's really the latter and not the former, chris. i mean this really is a circumstance of a deceased lashing himself to the mass to resist the sirens call. they're likely was someone who was in the five justice majority after the vote. but who read this opinion, which again, is not just extreme it's absolute -- and decided i'm not ready to go that far yet. i'm not ready to leave the door open to overruling same-sex marriage or trimming back in a racial marriage or contraception. i'm not there yet. and maybe that person was going with the chief justice who is much more interested in whether someone rang the alarm bells or someone wanting to enshrinement. and make sure there was no climbing down from the maximalism on this play in this. >> i think it's really the latter and not the former, chris. i mean this really is a circumstance of a deceased lashing himself to the mass to resist the sirens call. they're likely was someone who was in the five justice majority after the vote. but who read this opinion, which again, is not just extreme it's absolute -- and decided i'm not ready to go that far yet. i'm not ready to leave the door open to overruling same-sex marriage or trimming back in a racial marriage or contraception. i'm not there yet. and maybe that person was going with the chief justice who is much more interested in oral argument and brokering from had a third way compromise that would uphold the mississippi law. but stopped short of overruling roe and casey. and together with the three liberals, that would have been a five just a majority. this league essentially shows that while we conservative. that there will be hell to pay if you don't hold the hard line on this and the hell to pay is basically the treatment of the chief justice has received over and over again whenever he has departed from the conservative orthodoxy and showing the liberals in the name of constitutionalism. >> yeah again we don't know the -- i think they're sort of plausible places on both sides. but i find that vision of things compelling. melissa murray and laura tribe. what a pleasure to have you both tonight. thank you very much. >> great to be here. >> that is all in on this night nbc prime source right now with ali velshi good evening ali. rachel's crack team and i will be hosting all this week what a week it's turning out t let me show you the scene outside the united states supreme court right now. this was new york city this evening. and ewphiladelphia, pennsylvani knoxville, tennessee, boston, massachusetts, wilmington, delaware, reno, nevada, st. paul, minnesota, kansas city, missouri, austin, texas.in americans turning out in city after city across the country, many of them kind of in shock. the country's digesting the bomb shell news that broke just over 24 hours ago that a majority on the supreme court