Assaulting a Police Officer, capitol riot. What were learning from new invitations to the january Six Committee, to Republican Congressman including members reportedly seeking pardons from trump in the wake of the coup, and the pelosi delegations to and touches down in a war torn kyiv, to support ukraine. Do not be bullied by beliefs, if theyre making threats, do not back down. Congressman Gregory Meeks was in a delegation, he joins me live, all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes, the first marquee primary race of the year takes place tomorrow, the unofficial start of the midterms season kicking off in the state of ohio. The race to replace retiring senator rob portman, he was the first elected in 2010, after worked in the george bush administration. He was cut from an older republican cloth hes often described as a moderate, though i think its a little contestable. He does sometimes rank with the party line. Most notably, and for our purposes here, he did not support Donald Trumps attempt of a coup, to overturn the results of the 2020 election. But the men vying to take his place, are a very different story. Hillbilly l elegy author j. D. Vance, former state treasurer mike mandel, and have tried to omega other for months. Theyve clearly been performing for an audience of one, doing everything to suck up to the ex president , in extremely cringe inducing fashion. Josh mandel was apparently so moved after seeing a trump sign amid the fury of president bidens vaccine requirement, that he felt compelled to pull over on the side of the road and fill in this video. Im dry freeing through western ohio, were driving through a cornfield, took town called loganville, ohio, my blood is boiling, enraged at what ive seen from the white house today. Trampling on our feet Freedom Trampling on our liberty trampling on when i took an oath to defend, joe biden, im not even gonna call him president biden, joe biden is creating a constitutional crisis. As i was driving through this cornfield, i literally came across so sign, this trump sign, he is my president. Yeah, moving in powerful stuff, one of the most memorably humiliating incidents was when josh mandel and given this had to be separated during a Campaign Form in march. My opponent mr. Gibbons was making billions of dollars, Bias Shipping ohio businesses, to china. He took perfect fit llc, and mike how do you explain how you folded to a Company Called shanghai shonda, that was in 2015, while President Trump was campaigning against china you made and understand, thats because youve met ribbon in the private sector in your life. [inaudible] you dont know squat. They are adorable. But it was j. D. Vance, and his embarrassing slew of public reversals, even describing his twitter feed, and apologizing for the many times he apology president s endorsement, and he was rewarded with his instantly iconic, legendary flood from over the weekend. By the way, 33 and oh in texas, i was three on endorsements, 33 and oh. You know, if i lost one race, theyd say trump was humiliated, theyre waiting for one race. You know, weve endorsed doctor oz, weve been jurist jp, right . J. D. Mandel, and hes doing great. It is, of course j. D. Vance, and josh mandel, he matched on together. It brought us right back to this truly awesome trump gaffe in the 2018 state of the union. Here tonight is one leader, in the effort to defend our country. Homeland security, investigations Special Agent, soliciting no martinez. He goes by didier, and c. J. He said call me either one. So we will call you c. J. Call me either one, Special Agent solace dino martinez, with a sea, never won by dj, i would make no sense whatsoever. But the way things are going in ohio, j. D. Vance will probably getting j. D. Mandela tattooed on his face, if that is what trump wants to column, maybe thats who will be. Now, there is one candidate in ohio has decided whether out of conviction or opportunities, to run in a non maga lane. State senator madeleine has refused to bow down to the ex president , hes accused him about perpetuating raw lies about the outcome of the election. Hes the only candidate in recent debate, to agree that trump should move on. Do you think, at some of highlevel republicans have suggested, that for the betterment of the Republican Party, its time for donald trump to stop talking about the 2020 election, and move on. If yes, if you think he should move on, raise your head. Now, that actually seems to be working for mental, and he is showing a late surge, coming just and second behind vance, in this five minute poll over the past few days. Its gonna be an interesting story to watch tomorrow night, watch matt dolan, theyll be a really striking story. Now, the bigger context here, is that while ohio is a red state, that has been trending more republican, it is not mississippi, or alabama, or wyoming. Donald trump won ohio comfortably, he won by eight points, not particularly close but not a blowout. Also, ohio has a democratic senator who is just reelected to his third term in 2018. Whoever wins this open seat this year will be serving with him. So to be clear, whoever wins this primary tomorrow, they are absolutely the favorite to win the general election in the fall. But nothing is guaranteed. You do not have to go back very far to find examples of republican primary voters elevating candidates who completely collapsed in the general election. In 2010 who is christine odonnell, of i am not of which fame, who came Out Of Nowhere in the public and Senate Primary of delaware, odonnell the Tea Party Favorite beat out former governor mike castle, who almost certainly wouldve won in the general easily. Instead, democrat chris coons beat odonnell for that seat, he will likely hold onto it for as long as he wants. Republicans probably lost four or five seeds this way in the obama years. And, so these primaries they matter, for a bunch of reasons. The matter, of course, in terms of shaping the texture and agenda of one of just two coalitions, major parties of american life, the Republican Party. Especially, their views on democracy. A lot of the primary races we are seeing this year are essentially being between big lie promoters, and big lie speck skeptics, or at least lest vociferous big liars. The outcome in those contested races, will help determine how much the Party Continues to just frankly pledge itself to enable Donald Trumps authoritarianism, and to be on board with future coups should the opportunity arise. There are also the broader political ramifications that we have seen in november. Of, course we know, they want a Party Controls both houses of congress in the presidency, they tend to lose seats and have a hard time in the midterms. Especially many of his situation right now where you have inflation. To quote sports, thats why they play the game, there are external, factors candidate qualities, and messaging matters. The world will not look in, may the way it did in november. Lord knows, we should have internalize this by now, we should have seen that happen than last years of the pandemic, now with a land war on the european content. Who knows what is in store for the next six months . Abortion rights in this country, roe v. Wade, 50 years ago of it, maybe got it in decimated, thrown out of the Supreme Court ruling expected next month. We. Have no idea what the state of the pandemic will be. 1 million Different Things can happen with the economy, we already have evidence that the world of today is not the same as just a month ago. New polling out today shows that republicans have caught up under generic ballot president violins Approval Rating has gone up, getting five points since february, in the same Washington Post in abc news polling. Thats one, pull up old tomorrow may say the Say Something different. Its true that oil prices come down significantly, so mcconnell believes that the inflation, which has clearly been kind of a thorn of the side for republicans, that can come coming down. Who can run in these senate races, statewide races, secretary state elections. What messages they you, how to speak to voters, but they can campaign on all that really matters. These primaries, amidst the maelstrom whatever comes, is going to determine use an extremely crucial outcome, because nothing is yet written in stone. Tim miller is a writer at large for bulwark, he was Communications Director for jeb bushs 2016 president ial bid. They both join me now. Trip gabriel, let me start with you now, theres two things that are interest to meet in ohio. It does seem clear that the maga faction has completely run this race at a certain level, in terms of how they dominated the race. It also seems like dolenz a time to distinguish himself by running in his own lane, has borne him for success, and itll be interesting to watch. Thats absolutely right, and one of the things that is working for, dolan there really no other republican candidates like that in the upcoming primaries, if you look to pennsylvania in california. The maga dominance of the Republican Party is so strong, theyve got three candidates in ohio who are all fighting hard to win those voters. They may end up canceling each other out to a certain degree, that there is an opportunity for a dark horse coming up on the outside lane to, perhaps, when a plurality. That would be madeleine. There are a lot of College Educated suburban voters in ohio, outside of columbus and cincinnati, who in 2018 in 2020 had been traditionally public voters but defected from the party under donald trump. We dont know exactly where theyre gonna do, trumps not running right now, but it has created an interesting dynamic there. Tim, the sort of broader question here that ive been puzzling around. If you look at 20 2020, 12, 2014 i think four or five seeds that republicans were for her candidate quality, because theyre candidates saying wildly offensive things like the womans body has a way of shutting down pregnancy its caused by rape. I guess i wonder, do you think the structural impediments or so over determine these days, the candidate quality doesnt essentially matter anymore, and you could just nominate whoever, in a state like ohio . Or is there still some dynamism there in terms of whats someone like josh mandel, if youre the candidate, or George Walker should look like as a candidate . Im not so far from your assessment in the intro there, i think Herschel Walker for example, is a big assessment for republicans. Obviously, this is a state where biden won, which is different from ohio where he lost seven players. This is a similar process going on as a bio more enthusiastic about the coup than the other. I think that will probably not read down to the democrats favor, unfortunately, its still alabama, despite the doctrines when theyre not too far ago. Ohio is a tougher call, eight points is a big bridge to overcome, bad environment is tough to come over to, hes running a good team, Working Class Type of campaign. He hasnt gone off to the left, i think hes focused on the issue like the economy. I think theres a potential opportunity, like if trump beings vans to who is going to be beholden to the former president , the chai a coup and tos Silicon Valley oligarchies running his campaign, who said that he doesnt care that much what happens to ukrainians. You know, those arent that popular things. Those certainly are the type of things that you say if youre trying to deal with gas prices and inflation prices. I do think theres an opening for him in ohio, its a tough nut to crack, but its not totally out of the question. Tim makes a good point, which is that the math means a lot, it means more more because what ends up happening is weve seen the sorting, just in the time ive been coming to politics, people used to switch theyd roast for republican gubernatorial, democrat three of the states where youve gotten competitive races, youve got georgia, arizona, nevada, all of which are places that biden won. Youve also got the georgia seat. So the map here is not the worst map democrats can envision even if the midterm environment is pretty tough. No, thats true, i think well have this conversation in 2024 when the map luecks bad for democrats than. But this year, democrats are gonna be defending a couple sees the way one. Georgia, arizona, and nevada, maybe even new hampshire. With law ago thats barack obama won ohio in 2012. The map of that state and is probably more typical of a place like iowa it has become such a Red Voting State we White Working Class post industrial part of the midwest used to be a pretty good democratic region and those voters have all gone to donald trump. Tim, you know politics is a dynamic undertaking. People try different, things they find out what works, if someone finds something that, works other people a bit. Its a sort of evolutionary process. One thing that struck me and just watching dolan, i dont think he represents the Republican Base at all, but it does strike me that if you go back to 2015 and you are there working that race, whatever you said about donald trump he didnt sound like everyone else in the race. Right . And it is now the case that everyone just sounds the same. They all some of the same, all of them sound like trump, trump even sounds like hes doing a trump impression. I do wonder like what that does, what opportunities that creates in republican politics approves a crashing same missed everyone these days. Yeah on the one hand i, think theres two sides to this. In this primary, i think maga pro coup candidates are gonna get 75 of the votes, so its not that encouraging of assigned, if dolan does surprisingly well, i think 25 is better than five or ten. But to your point, this is something that has frustrated me for a long time when i talk to my former friends, who are working campaigns. I think that rob portman for example, he was in a safe senate seat there in ohio. It wasnt really that threatened by a rightwing culture, so this idea that he had to stick with trump on everything in order to stay in the center, never made sense to me. I think theres a way for people to zag that is not liz cheney, and we just havent seen people try it. Thats a great point, tim miller, trip gabriel, appreciate that. Still to come, the january Six Committee wants to hear froms three more Republican Congress members and its investigation, an alleged effort to get a pardon from the president for oath keepers threatening to protect Ronny Jackson, while the events were unfolding, were gonna go over the new information we got for those letters, just ahead. Letters, just ahead. I have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Now, theres skyrizi. Things are getting clearer, i feel free to bare my skin yeah, thats all me nothing and me go hand in hand nothing on my skin, thats my new plan nothing is everything achieve clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90 clearer skin at 4 months. Of those, nearly 9 out 10 sustained it through 1 year. And skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. I see nothing in a different way its my moment so i just gotta say nothing is everything skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. 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Expanded access to education as a nonprofit leader. Had a successful career in business. And as burlingame mayor during the pandemic, raised the minimum wage, increased affordable housing, and preserved our bayfront open space. I am emily beach. Ill take my reallife experience to get things done for us. I approve this message, and all these shoes too. Marine corps veteran and retired and ypg out of sir Thomas Webster showed up to storm the capitol. He was wearing a Red And White jacket carried a metal flagpole, and your post officers at the metropolitan Police Department who are behind the barricades yearling at them using graphic language calling the Police Officers commies, and take off their protective gear. Were gonna Show You Body Cam Video of the entire interaction but for someone to walk through what happened because it all moves very quickly. According to complain from the department of webster shove the officer with the metal gates, and swung the pull in front of the officer. Im sure that struck the officer several times. The officer to pull from him, he tried some of his bare hands and knock them to the ground and then tried to rip his gas mask off his face. This is what that whole interaction looked like in realtime. [inaudible] pretty harrowing to watch a special from that first person perspective. Other images in the complaint show upstart on solving the officer trying to, again, ripped the gas mask from his face. The officer told investigators he was being told by his chin strap and was unable to breathe during this portion of the assault. If you think maybe webster had regrets after attack that Police Officer and was caught on video later that day, you will see him as the man in the blue code, e they put a 6 00 curfew in to effect in d. C. For today, for tomorrow. Right now, anything could happen, it is pretty sandler patriots. I dont know that these people are intending on leaving. If you need help, some more patriots. Of stores waiting for more insurrectionists to contest on the capitol. Today, nearly six months after that man attacked a Police Officer to help you don trump in power against the will of the american people, a jury found webster guilty on all charges, including five felonies. Webster is the fourth january 6th rioter to face a jury trial, and the fourth to be convicted on all charges. So far, every single time one of those january six attackers has gone before a jury, theyve been fun guilty. Im a source that was the first one to be found and guilty of assault. But again, what about the people above him . People in congress who plotted to help donald trump steal the election . Weve got the latest on those floaters next. E latest on thos floaters next. The lows of bipolar depression can leave you down and in the dark. But what if you could begin to see the signs of hope all around you . What if you could let in the lyte . Discover caplyta. 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Theyve waited a long awaited series of letters, the letters are from three sitting members of congress, they want to talk to congressman moe brooks of alabama, we may remember spoke at january six, trumps january 6th rally while wearing body armor. We are not going to let them continue to corrupt our elections. And steal from us our god given right to control our nations destiny. Today is the day american patriots start taking down names, and kicking butt. The committee wants to talk to him about conversations he claims to have had with the ex president , during which trump allegedly asked brooks to overturn the report results of the election. The committee cites a recent Press Release from brooks, where he says that President Trump asked me to rescind the 2020 elections, immediately remove joe biden from the white house, immediately put President Trump back in the white house, and hold a new Special Election for presidency. Again, according to books, this was recent. In response, to the letter, brooks said that i wouldnt help nancy pelosi and liz cheney across the street, im certainly not going to help them in their witch hunt committee. If they want to talk, they can send me a subpoena. The Committee Also wants to talk to andy biggs of arizona, about his relationship with the farright stop the steal organizer, we are aware that alexander, along with the into other House Members came up with the idea, of bringing protesters to Washington On January 6th to count electoral votes. He was an early and aggressive promotion of the stop the steal movement, called for violence on january 6th. We would like to understand precisely what you knew before the violence on january 6th about the purposes, planning, and expectations for the march on the capitol. Today, Congressman Biggs released a statement saying, i will not be participating in the illegitimate and democrat sympathizing house six january 6th committee panel. Then theres former white house doctor, really one of the stranger characters in American Political Life out last few years, who is now a congressman, Ronny Jackson of texas. A major proponent of the big lie according to the letter requestings testimony the farright gang known as the oath keepers, who brought weapons, discussed jackson in an encrypted group message, where they described him as relevant to their plans. When members said that Ronny Jackson, offset inside capital, he needs oath keeper help, anyone inside . I second oath keepers replied, hopefully they can help dr. Jackson. The first one answered, dr. Ronny jackson on the move, needs protection if anyone inside he has Critical Data to protect. The groups leader, Elmer Stewart rhodes the third, currently faces charges of Seditious Conspiracy for his role in the insurrection. He said, help with, would give him my cell. Congressman jackson said he would not cooperate with the committee, he said i will not participate in the illegitimate committees Ruthless Crusade against President Trump and his allies. Kyle cheney recently published an article against the Seditious Conspiracy charges against the oath keepers. Lets start with Ronny Jackson stuff, i dont have much context and i havent seen some other context other than whats quoted in the letter theres just a sort of a strange set of facts to introduce him to the record about what Ronny Jackson might have. It is, these messages appeared in the court case against the oath keepers, were one of them post a whole slew of text messages, and the Ronny Jackson ones were sort of buried in the middle. So i actually asked Ronny Jackson about it last week, he said ive never even heard of the oath keepers before january 6th, ive had nothing to do with these people. Why my name was in there now, or in their text messages, i couldnt tell you. And thats the position he has maintained. There may be some truth of that in the sense that the oath keepers, these are not people who are tethered to reality in many cases, and they may have thought they saw someone running around the capitol, who look like Ronny Jackson. We do know some of these people were on the tax chain, were inside the capital of this is going on. So that fact they mentioned, seen Roddie Jackson is pretty notable. Just a dive into that, so the oath keepers, we know there is a Seditious Conspiracy charges, theyre a big deal when they came out, because its a rarely prosecuted crime in the federal government. But theres a second oath keepers now pleaded guilty to Seditious Conspiracy, brian o rick when the 11th Oath Keepers facing the charges, he pleaded s guilty to seditious compute seriously last month. It could arm prosecutors have substantial evidence as they work can secure the conviction, it does seem like the government is making progress on that aspect of their case. They are, and i think some of the people who are involved in this more serious conspiracy case realize they are going to jail for a long time if theyre convicted, even if they plead guilty theyre going to jail for a long time. So some of them, we are starting to see are looking more likely to plead. Whats interesting about the oath keepers, though, is they have a nexus sort of between the people who stormed the capitol, and some of the people in the upper echelons of the planners here. Some of these members, and joshua james himself pleaded guilty with Roger Stone On January 5th and january 6th. So theres a connection between that higher level that is getting some scrutiny now from federal prosecutors, from the select committee, and the riders themselves in the people who breached the building. In terms of the members of congress, these are not the first members of congress to be requested by the committee, not subpoenaed by the committee, but requested to come. One of the points, i think we all expect now, knowing what we know, that all three Gentlemen Statements were precisely what you would imagine they would be. But one of the points that others have made, both congressional historians members of the committee, the members of congress been called before committees is not some new crazy thing. And 99 times out of 100 in the past they just come, because were all in congress, ill tell you. That has not been the case for anyone requested on the republican side. No, they seem to pretty reunify decided that theres no value for them, politically or otherwise, in helping the january 6th select committee gather information. And the committee, they dont really want to go down the road, it seems, of Issuing Subpoenas to members of congress, that itself would be not unprecedented, but it would set a rarely trotted path. I think theyre reluctant to go down at the moment, so they just want to leave it out there and say look, weve never had an attack like this on our democracy in history if youd want to be part of trying to stand in our way and in peter are learning the truth about that thats on you, and ready to let it hang out there and let you live with that rather than go through the legal fight that weve been having with numbers. All right, kyle cheney, thanks so much for time. When we return a show of support from the u. S. As Speaker Pelosi leaves a delegation in kyiv to meet with president zelenskyy, congressman Gregory Meeks just returned from that trip, he is here to fill us in on how that went right after this. Nt right after this. Lemons. Lemons. Lemons. Lemons. Look how nice they are. 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Over the weekend, the Speaker Of The House nancy pelosi second the life of the presidency, lead the congressional delegation. Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy release this video of this meeting with pelosi and four other democrats and q. She is the highest ranking u. S. Official to visit ukraine, just a week after secretary say that secretary of defense my wasilewski. After visiting ukraine, the delegation went to poland where pelosi awful this about the policy of backing ukraine, backing bidens requests for Three Billion Dollars of humanitarian aid. Do not be bullied by belize. And theyre making threats, you cannot back down. Thats my view of it. Were there for the fight. And you cannot fold globally. One of the members who traveled to kyiv is congressman Gregory Meeks, democrat of new york, and the share of Foreign Affairs committee, and he joins me now. Congressman, good to have you. First, im just curious about where your experience of key evils like. Your impressions of president zelenskyy. Number one, thank you for having me. And let me tell you that president zelenskyy was absolutely marvelous. You could see and tell that they were prepared for a war zone would you can also tell that theyve deter the russians pushing them back. But theyre saying ever alert. But being in the room sitting by the cross with president zelenskyy was very inspiring. I saw a real leader. A man who was focused on the hour of which his country is in the spotlight because of the aggression of vladimir putin. And he was there determined to make sure that he wins and that he does not lose any solvent property. I was in ukraine about two weeks before the incursion. Basically there to talk to him and tell him that we thought that russia would invade. And he said to me on the delegation that i lead at that particular time that if russia did in fact invade that the people of ukraine would fight. They would fight for their sovereignty they fight for their freedom. He said that the only thing he asked was that we provide him with the weapons that he needed and as much unity as we can get Around The World. But he did not meet any soldiers on the ground. And guess what . We are now over two months into this war and one of the things that i think nobody predicted because all predictions before was that it would not be able to withstand the onslaught of this evil man. Two months later they could not kentucky. They are regaining ground they are fighting like never before for their sovereignty. And we were there to stand right by him, and hes just as focused today as he was preparing if this invasion wouldve taken place when i first was there. Hes planning hes thinking, and he knows the will of his fighters will bring them to victory. He needs us to give him the tools that he needs. He needs us to be united. And this is something that the president has done excellently. Keeping all 30 nations of nato united. Just looking at the reflection of the vote at the un, 100 and 41 to 5 condemning putins invasion into ukraine. On the question of support for zelenskyy, theres a proposal for 33 Billion Dollars and both humanitarian and military aid to ukraine. Obviously, i think anyone was watch this play out understands what ukraine needs money. Theyve been devastated. You can look at any of the cities. But what about people who say, thats a lot of money . Its quite a bit of money, obviously there lots of needs in the United States. In fact its been hard to pass some of the agenda items the president s agenda largely due to the u. S. Senate. What about the people who say, wait a second, what about other parts and other things that need to be funded . Were gonna take of the other things that have been funded. We know how to do that. But, time is of the essence. We have the past, theres 33 Billion Dollars immediately. Look, as president zelenskyy said, hes not only fighting for the sovereignty of ukraine. We know, and we can see, that it is the intent of putin to move on to the baltic states. The moldovan, to georgia, and not to stop there. And others are watching what takes place. Let me tell you Something Else thats critical. And this is why its important to all of us Around The World. People will starve. The house Foreign Affairs committee which you say i chair, we are gonna do a briefing soon on the cause of this war. Why people and starvation that may be on the line . What putin is doing is blocking the black sea. Ukraine experts over 50 of the worlds they produce sweet, corn, the people Around The World are dependent upon. They cannot harvest their crops and get it all. And so you see already, prices have gone up all over the world, almost 14 in the last month alone. 20 from the beginning of the year. And folks will starve. Youre now David Beasley from the world food organization, for the un. Come to brief us on whats at stake. We talk about here at home, the prices are going up an inflation. There is a direct he could talked almost any economist. A direct connection between putin, this war, and this blockades that can have people starving in africa, in central and south america, and indeed even right here in the United States of america. Congressman Gregory Meeks just back from ukraine, thank you sir, appreciate it. Still to come, it is a defining issue in american politics about to be turned on its head. And i dont think anyone is ready for the kind of change it has. Ill explain, next. I has. Ill explain, next ill explain, next im so defensive, i got bongos thumping in my chest and something tells me they dont beat me hed better not take the ring from me. vo when it comes to safety, who has more iihs top safety pick plus awards the highest level of safety you can earn . Subaru. 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Now, political mentioned this in the piece. This has never happened before, as far as i know. A Draft Opinion of the court leaking, a. , this would be, if true, the most Seismic Court ruling in 50 years, most likely. And earthquake in the lives of americas women, in our culture, and our political culture. Rain carmen is a Senior Correspondent at new York Magazine where she covers gender lawn politics, among other topics. She joins me now. Erin, we booked you know tonight for a block that was going to be about how it seemed likely rolls gonna be overturned. That it seemed like maybe there was a failure to price and that reality in the political class. And then this literally crossed two minutes before you came on air. What is your reaction . Chris, im gobsmacked for the same reasons that you are in the sense that political has posted a 98page opinion and that is a draft. We do not know if it will change between now and when we expect the court to hand out its opinion in june. But nonetheless, it is a detailed, Seemingly Authenticated Draft Written By samuel alito that would make abortion illegal and at least half the country the day that it goes into effect. Whats shocking is, that we have. It was shocking as, the impact will have on real peoples lives. Unfortunately, anybody who listen to the justices deliberating in december is not going to be shocked by this outcome. What does seem still to be up in the air is, what will chief Justice Roberts do . Because, according to politicos reporting, at least, his vote is still up for grabs. We heard him in december clearly say that he was interested in undoing the viability line, which is a way of Overturning Roe without actually saying were Overturning Roe. Whats striking about what ive been able to read from Justice Alitos opinion, is that he says very clearly, we are Overturning Roe. Where overturning casey, which strengthen roe. And then pack that would be absolutely devastating on millions of people who can become pregnant, live in hostile jurisdictions, and will certainly open the door to what we were originally going to talk about today, which is a proposed national bun by republicans. So this would enormously change peoples lives, again, if this opinion can get to a majority. So, we know that people often will leak deliberations by the court after the fact. We dont usually hear or get to see the details. It is still possible, i dont know how likely it is, but its still possible that between now and the end of june, there will be some haggling, some change in the opinion, but we do know that the votes are apparently there from conference for Justice Alito cleanly, unmistakably overturned roe v. Wade. Just to be clear, the reporting from politico is that there are five votes for this majority opinion. So theres five looks there, then theres nothing three liberals, and then roberts in opposition. Or i marauding on that . I think he was assigned to a majority, which means that when they took their votes on friday, after the initial argument, there wouldve been votes for at least this outcome. Right. But when justice is circulated opinion, they still need to get the other justices to fully sign on. So there have been times that in the process of writing, justices change their minds. This was an example of this where in the court, there was negotiations. So, i would say that the fact that somebody is leaking this is telling us that that person hopes that they can sway, perhaps, chief Justice John Roberts this was the difference a little bit. Again, im totally speculating. But this leak needs to be read on its own us somebody really trying to draw attention to what the court is about to do to the lives of the american people. Yes, i mean, thats part of was so shocking about it, that it seems like a signaller, right . A complete moment of break glass desperation. In 50 years that is built up into this moment, which is a sustained attack on reproductive rights on this country by the Political Forces that lost in a row, and again in casey, to get it, toward a little, way to try to viscerally it. It everything but overturn it. This is the moment is here. The wolf is at the door, and theyre going to overturn roe. The sky has fallen. Thats the message. And again, whoever leaked, this and have zero insight. Im just responding in realtime to this. To your point, and, again this is gonna drive our news quite a bit, but this was the beginning of something and not the end. In 1 million different ways. Both, that this opinion is a law, we dont know the, but theres a lot of wrestle with this in the aftermath, and hopefully we can come back. Erin, thank you so much, also about that we had to. Thank you, chris. All right, again, im just sort of composing myself here as i process this. That is all in for this evening, the Rachel Maddow show starts right now, good evening rachel. I am absorbing this right now, as you are talking about it. Chris, as far as you know both need time to process this and then as reported by the fact that were live on television right now. Do we share the understanding that this is the first time, before ruling has been issued we have seen but purports to be the draft ruling ever lead to the press . That is my understanding, i think political more or less indicates i think thats correct, but i