Committee for his role in facing a false slate of electors for donald trump was so committed to the big lie that he said that he would completely purge the voter rules there. I get to appoint the Secretary Of State of state and that Secretary Of State will clean up the election logs. You have to reregister and well start all over again. What could go wrong . Earlier this week in michigan, republicans nominated a trumpendorsed Election Denier. Who has appeared in qanon rallies to be the states top election official and they nominated another 2020 Election Denier who sued to overturn michigans 2020 Election Results to be their candidate for attorney general. The seemingly relentless march of big lie republican candidates faces its biggest test perhaps in georgia where as we reported earlier this week, trump endorsed Election Fraud conspiracy theorists. David purdue is running on a platform of lies about the 2020 election in his bid to unseat sitting republican Governor Brian Kemp from the Washington Post, with less than a month to go, purdues laserlight focus Election Fraud seems to be falling flat. Kemp, who has avoided criticizing trump has logged doubledigit leads in recent public polls and enjoys a fast fundraising advantage. The race perhaps more than any other in the country represents a test. Both in the power of trumps endorsement and the potency of his false 2020 fraud claims as a motivating force among Republican Voters this year. A Purdue Defeat could help defy the limits to both. It is against the backdrop of the big lie and its animating force in the Republican Party in these 2022 primaries and the January 6th Select Committee is conducting its wideranging investigation and preparing to make all of the evidence they gathered and preparing their testimony public. In the last hour Bennie Thompson told nbc news that the committee is preparing to ask several republican lawmakers once again to appear before the committee. There will be at least eight Public Hearings beginning in june in which the committee will tell the full story, The True Story of the insurrection. What happened, why it happened and what could be done to make sure it doesnt ever happen again. It comes in the new reporting that those who spread the big lie and those who profited off of the big lie before it led to the Capitol Insurrection are also under scrutiny from the select committee. Politico reports this, quote, multiple current and former Republican National Committee Staffers have spoken with the January 6th Select Committee amid questions about the partys messaging and fundraising in the weeks after the 2020 election. The interviews underscore the select committees interest in how political messaging by the national gop apparatus which partnered with the Trump Campaign on digital Fundraising Efforts may have stoked falsehoods about the 2020 election. Committee investigators have said theyre interested in who authorized the rncs specific messaging about the election outcome and whether it played a role in stoking the violent mob that breached the capitol On January 6th. A Republican Party defined by the big lie is to start the hour. Politico national correspondent, also an msnbc contributor. Her byline is on that piece of reporting that we started with. Also Michael Steele is here. Former rnc chairman and now an msnbc political analyst. Amy stoddard is back, Associate Editor and columnist for Real Clear Politics and bacile sparkle is here with the Policy Program at hunter college. I want to start with you and i want to dig deeper into your reporteding. I remember that in the reporting in the New York Times about the select committee looking into the fraud, the comingling of the lie and fundraising. Is that the nexus with this part of the investigation from the 1 6 committee . What we know is the committee has specifically shown a lot of interest in people who worked on the rncs fundraising and digital operations in the days before and after the january 6th attack. So those are people who would potentially have knowledge and the way that the Republican Party was raising money off of these lies about the election outcome as well as the way that that strategy was shaping the partys messaging overall. Any time you have any Political Campaign going on, the most complicated legal issue is almost always these fundraising challenges is complex. You can get in trouble really quick. So thats something that were confident that the select committee is interested in. Theres just no question on that front. The other thing thats important to remember here is that the rnc leaned really hard into this notion that trump had had the election stolen from him and he was a victim of the dryby effect and they used fundraising email as containing those claims to raise tons and tons and tons of money, i believe one number was they raised upwards of 200 million in the time after election day. There are a lot of questions about whether or not the way they used that money and the way they raised it all lines up with the laws that govern the complex work and operating a Party Apparatus and theres no question that the select committee is keenly interested in and the fact that they had multiple current and former rnc staff cooperating is something thats a real asset to them. At the same time, we have to say it doesnt mean the rnc is opening their books and playing ball with the select committee. Far from it. In fact, the rnc has sued to try to block salesforce, which is the company that helped provide much of its messaging tools from complying with the subpoena from the select committee related to the work that salesforce did on and around january 6th. Salesforce released statements indicating we might have accidentally contributed to this violence. The judge is expected to rule at some point this week on whether or not salesforce can cooperate with the committee. Michael steele, we already know that one of the things that is likely of interest is whether they knew that the messages, and this is all about the rnc messages. The messages were a lie and we already know because its been reported already and the Trump Campaign manager authored a memo telling everybody that the stuff coming out of Sydney Powell and Rudy Giulianis mouth was hogwash, was wrong, was not true. Now we dont know the whole Chain Of Command of that memo, but bill steppian, the Trump Campaign manager was in possession of a memo that circulated among the Trump Campaign. You tell me, you ran the rnc, a president ial campaign and a general election in the rnc. Would they have access to the Campaign Managers memo saying that all of Rudy Giulianis claims were false . Might they be on the d. L. . Yeah let me see . Yeah. Not only would they have access. I wouldnt be surprised if the memo was directed to the chairman of the party. Look, of course, they have access to it. It is no secret in this town, no one should be running around acting surprised that there was a direct nexus between the white house political operation and the Republican National committee and in fact, it was largely embedded inside the white house on many occasions and vice versa. So absolutely they would know and theyre not going to step outside those bounds. The white house controls the political operations of the party when its in power whether thats democrat or republican and theres no secret with that part of it. What is important is how they operationalize the desire of the president to steal the election. The desire of the president to win an election he lost and that was operationalized legally. It was operationalized economically through fundraising and it was operationalized politically through the rnc and all of the ancillary organs of the Republican Party including the senatorial committees. So i think it will be very interesting to hear and find out what those staffers said about those operations and the Marching Orders they were given. Theres very clear evidence, there are emails and memos and a paper trail as long as, you know, whatever, but the reality of it is it is there and the commission has it, and i think that that says a lot about how we will further expose the entanglements of the political operation in the white house operations and how, together, they force out into the political landscape. Not just a narrative, but an operationalized effort to overturn the election On January 6th. Yeah. And i mean, i guess you and i are old enough to remember when it was a scandal if you were using a computer inside the white house even if it was a political computer to do political work during your work day. They were now taking that sort of norm, ethical question and using the white house to overturn the will of the American People and i want to ask you about these primary contests and i want to ask you about judge luttigs comments and you can explain who he is to The Republicans, the old republicans because even though he advised mike pence, clearly the David Perdues and the big lie advocates arent listening to him. He talked about trump trying to use the government to overturn the election like this. Trump invoking these Emergency Powers would have been unprecedented in all of american history. He said this in the New York Times at this moment theres no other way to say it. This is the clearest and most present danger to our democracy, trumps efforts to overturn his defeat. Theyre preparing now to lay the groundwork to overturn the election in 2024 where trump is designate to lose the vote for the presidency and when i try to explain who he is to my democratic friends and you take dick cheney as an ideological space on the spectrum and this is sort of his legal analog. Yes. That is how conservative he is in the legal world, right . Yeah. No. Explain what it means in the context of the primaries that are very much up in the air and up for grabs. Well, what the warnings are trying to get folks to understand is look closely at who is being put forward as the standard bearer for the Republican Party and to represent the party in general elections in november. These are individuals who are bought and paid for by the trump operation. How do we know that in because they sold themselves to the trump operation. It doesnt take Rocket Scientists to figure out whats going on where hes candidates are falling all over themselves. Witness the senate race among republicans. They couldnt be more trumpy. They couldnt say they were closer to trump and they could not make greater claims about how they were going to further undermine the constitutional normless of this country should they be given power. So you have this judge saying very clearly, look, this is what this is and this is a setup for whats going to be coming down the pike. Youve got to Pay Attention to this. We may not catch it all, and so it is incumbent to get that information and that notice out there. When you look at the trump judges, nicole, who in the 2020 cycle refuted the proposition, turned back the lawsuits and said no, this is not constitutionally nor legally appropriate, a lot of them were those appointed by donald trump. And so there there is this thread, though, for a lot of these judges that the constitution Still Matters and we should listen to what theyre saying in these rulings and take note of what that means when you look at it politically at the candidates who are lining up to become general election candidates and subsequently the next congressman, senator or whatever. And basil, the Focus On Republicans is because theyve been on the democracy question the whole time, but theyre not the thread. They dont stand on the intersection of the violent extremism and the belief that the 2020 election was stolen and if you look at it, its sort of an effort to counter extremists which is what theyve become in the 2020 election. They believe something that is not true. They believe something that chris krebs, a Life Long Republican was the opposite case that the 2020 Election Results was had in the most secure election in our countrys history. The reason i keep highlighting these messages from incredibly conservative voices is i wonder at what point or if ever would democrats try to chief apart the dangerous wing of the Republican Party, the people peddling the lie and benefiting from the lie and the people who at least see questions of democracy the same way . You know, one of the things that i think we could do to start down that path is change the narrative from the big lie to the big Criminal Conspiracy. Yes. And michael in running the National Party is the former Executive Director of the party and it is striking to me the level of coordination that is necessary to put out these messages at multiple levels of government. You know, at the state party if any candidate sends out a piece of mail we had to approve that. So the fact that you had all of this money, all of this messaging and whether its mail and whether its digital or whether its just speeches, there is a level of coordination that is almost unprecedented in perpetuating, and im going to continue to call it. This Criminal Conspiracy when you add in and potential tampering with the voting. The concerns that i have with respect to the democratic respond is two things, time and passion. Time because, unfortunately, historically in many ways we kind of respond to the very action oriented and we respond to these things with cycles and what is clear is that The Republicans did this over an extraordinarily long period of time, and multiple venues and if youre talking about judges and if youre talking about theyre contending and putting up candidates for Secretaries Of State. Those were the kind of things ordinary builders really want to make sure that the party is with the state or National Level is really contesting everywhere that it can. We saw that in jirja, that needs to be replicated across the country and then passion. I was driving Upstate New York a couple of days ago, all Rural Communities and im still seeing trump signs from 2016, from 2020 and a couple for 2024. It should not escape us that whether we like to call it this or not, and whether we acknowledge it or not, there is a significant, political and social movement occurring on the right and this is not something that democrats can do, can push back against by running a good candidate by talking about what we should and should not be doing and we have to match it with as much or more passion and Creative Movement on our own. We used to stand for american exceptionalism and 75 of the people that live in the world right now according to Research Live in countries where their Democratic Institutions are in danger of collapsing. The United States for the first time is part of that. I have to talk about that in my classes now. Yeah. And so if were going to be exceptional again, we maybe democrats can partner with some republicans to s. T. A. R. T. To call this Criminal Conspiracy what it really is. And a. B. , i know this is a topic of a piece you wrote this week and we covered it here. If i were a Democratic Campaign operative heres the point i would push back with. Mitch mcconnell referred donald trump for a investigation, bill barr described donald trump unfit for office and both men said theyll vote for him again in 2024 help while judge luttigs comments are a warm knife through ice, cold butter of the republican intransigence, but i think this idea that republicans are zealots in their antidemocrat conduct in the voting restrictions. Theyre passing Buddy Restrictions in states without allegations of fraud. Florida stood up and said our state is a model and they still went ahead and passed voting restrictions. Texas went for trump big time and trump asked them to and they recounted several counties in texas and the zealousness to carry the lie to drag out approximately sees and we found a great person to run for the district. How do you be in the moment to sabotage the right . I dont know if democrats can make their appeals as emotional as the ones that are so compelling on the right to voters on the right, but i know this will fall on the democrats. When you ask about conservatives warning about this kind of thing and how it will affect the primaries. It wont because Establishment Republicans and the primaries are not fighting back to any extent that we can see. Theyre not mobilizing to stop. These big candidates across the board are largely going to succeed and be able to create narratives of fraud at the state level where they have desertification at the state level so that the federal level by the time the Certification Process comes to congress, if theres protections against another insurrection at the capitol or an amended Electoral Count act where congress is not going to be able it to play games anymore, they intend to stop the count and the certification at the state level. That is the goal of these candidates as theyre not being shy about it. These are happening in primaries. The general election season this year democrats will be facing off against biglie candidates who are in positions to open the books and they must prepare for this. Its a reality and biden will have to talk about it at the federal level. Members of congress will have to address this even in their races if theyre not running against someone for Secretary Of State or attorney general. This has to be addressed head on. It cannot be side swept. Whether or not the passion will equal on the right is is irrelevant. They have to tell the voters that these people have run on campaigns in their primaries when swing voters were general election voters werent paying attention and they have to tell them what their intentions are and they have to be preparing for it now. There is an army, remember, not just of candidates. Steve bannon on his very, very, very podcast since january 6th that they need to control the elections and they need shock troops and they are volunteering everywhere to be Poll Watchers and election workers and volunteers. This is not just people who will win elections to get out the count and corrupt the count. It will be from the bottom up. If democrats dont wake up to this, they cant mitigate the damage and it has to be their singular focus this fall. We have some new reporting about the plan for Public Hearings where a lot of this will come up, and i want to ask all of you about it, and everyone is sticking around. On top of that we will cover the ongoing fallout among republicans in congress from that really shocking leaked audio of house leadership describing for a moment how they really felt about even other On January 6th. Will they need to grovel for forgiveness from one member who committed illegal acts and happens to be facing allegations of sex trafficking a minor. He got the apology. Plus signs that the Biden Administration is preparing for ukraine to remain in its fight against russia for the long haul. President biden asking congress for an additional 33 billion in foreign aid. Later in the show the January 6th Committee Bringing In Another member of Donald Trumps Innermost Circle and theyll speak to Rudy Giuliani soon. Congresswoman zoloft will be our guest and all of that and more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Stay with us. White house continues after a quick break. Stay with us we believe theres an innovator in all of us. Thats why we build technology that makes it possible for every business. And every person. To come to the table and do more incredible things. Xfinity mobile runs on americas most reliable 5g network, but for up to half the price of verizon, so you have more money for more stuff. This phone . Fewer groceries. This phone . More groceries this phone . Fewer concert tickets. This phone . More concert tickets. And not just for my shows. Get 400 off an eligible samsung device with xfinity mobile. Take the savings challenge at xfinitymobile. Com mysavings or visit your xfinity store and talk to our switch squad today. There are lots of choices when it comes to your internet and technology needs. 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Unbeatable internet from xfinity. Made to do anything so you can do anything. Theres a lot of information that were gathering, and i think when we put that all in front of the American People, some of the stuff is known, some of it is unknown, and when we put it in a narrative form. A i this is a danger and b, this is what happened. It goes to show that the American Public still needs to know about it. Whats most concerning to me is less about what happened that day. That was bad, but what were the conditions that led to this and how did we fix them because i dont think we have. That was january 6th select Committee Member Adam Kinzinger with Garrett Haake on the mission of the select committee as it gets ready to make this big pivot to share everything theyve got in their farranging probe with the public. Betsy, i want to just follow up with some nbc news reporting that eight Public Hearings starting in june are what they planned. They will reask the republican lawmakers, liz cheney who was in leadership have said what they have known for a very long time and its not just house members or people that were asked that will include the folks like leader Kevin Mccarthy. Will it include senators we asked . Perhaps cruz and lee whose texts have been part of the mark meadows text message dump. I wonder, betsy, if you will get them returned and the idea of the narrative to be not just written in the report, but told through the public for eight hearings and what sorts of lessons are a applying to hold donald trump accountable . The biggest takeaway that the members have gotten to do this work harkens back to special counsel Robert Muellers russia probe. Congressman schiff was a key player into trumps relationship with russian nationals and one reason that many Congressional Democrats think that that probe didnt have a larger impact on the Public Perception of trump was because they felt ultimately the hearings that resulted from that probe congressional featuring counsel mueller didnt tell the story in a way that was accessible to most americans and special counsel muellers team put out a multihundred page report and it was two volumes that was not super user friendly. The most typical americans who didnt have a lot of free time on their hands wanted to get home after a long day of working and that was something that was quite disappointing and the challenge for the January 6th Select Committee is how do they take all of the information that they have and just a massive, vast amount of information and process it for people who perhaps are newer to this story and you and i and folks watching this show might be. For us, the biggest question is what does the select committee know that we dont know . What scoop is the select committee sitting on, but the Target Audience for the committee is likely to be the much Broader Group of americans who know what happened On January 6th in broad brush terms, but who havent closely tracked the steps and the twists and the turns of this investigation. The fact that theyre having eight hearings is notable because thats a lot of hearings. Were talking an hbo mini seriesplus of content that the select committee will be putting out. Most people wont watch Congressional Hearings on anything, so how does the Committee Structure these hearings. How do they organize them . Do they have audio, visual Companion Content that could be shorter, more shareable ask accessible to typical people. These are all questions that the people will be processing for the next month as they gear out for the rollout of what theyve found over the course of this immense investigation. You know, Michael Steele, i spent time in the communications side and my time in politics and just what the committee has and Congressman Kinzinger says there is a lot that you dont know is the code red on every page. On every page. You have Kevin Mccarthy, damn right laws i thought were broken. You have donald trump, damn right i wanted to use the u. S. Pentagon, the State Department and dhs to seize Voting Machines and what the committee has an opportunity to do, is say, adam schiff this time, not even Robert Mueller who worked for republicans after 9 11 and all of you. I think Robert Mueller was in front of congress more times than any other Government Official ever in light of the fact that they led the fbi, but it didnt matter. They turned them into someone like you and me, Michael Steele, someone who goes on msnbc and tells the truth of what the Republican Party has become. All of them are inside the trump tent. The opportunity they have is to recede and let trumps people explain what they did. I absolutely agree and i love the idea of an hbo mini Series Starring the january 6th absolutely thats what you want to do. I mean, look, since republicans have this nexus and connections to hollywood and get them to write some of this script out if need be. Youve got to tell this story in a way that captures the attention, the imagination, the energy of the country. Take us into the summer, baby. Im at the beach with an ice, cold drink with my feet up, listening and watching what is going on with these hearings. Thats where they need this thing to go to. Look, you dont have any runway left here. There is nothing left to do at this point except sell, sell, sell. We are fix atsed on what, you know, elon musk is doing on twitter. We are fixated on whether donald trump will get back on twitter. Baby, you need to eclipse that level of attentiongrabbing nonsense to something thats substantive and real for the country. So they need to bring not just an a game. They need to redefine what the agame is with this. The only thing at stake here is democracy itself. Im not trying to scream and shout something that isnt true. Everybody knows it. And my hearing, outside of my hearing knows it because come november 4th, you get this part of the movie, the mini series wrong, the rest of the movie, baby, you dont want to watch. Basil, i never i never pick on you because i pick on the democrats and its all ive got on this experiment in democracy. Im coming back to you as aes is vessel and not a target of my exasperation. Democrats believe that there is a hard wiring and they can only talk about one thing, and i would just pause it that you walk around new york or frankly, all across the midwest and there are churches and schools with jars outside of ukraine. One, there is a democracy being attacked by Brutal Autocratic leader in Vshg Lad Mir Putin and two, eight weeks ago their lives were a lot like our lives. Americans care about democracy if they can be made to understand what happens if you lose it, and i wonder. I saw you nodding at Michael Steele, what is your advice . I think everything thats been said about getting that narrative right is incredibly important because we need to get people to buy into why whats happening here and the consequences if this is allowed to occur and metastasize into something larger that we probably cant comprehend at this moment, but in addition to the narrative, one thing that really is important for me and i think for so many people is the notion of accountability. Okay. So lets say that we find that all of these folks who were bringing to the table and who were bringing in front of us, we find that they did do something wrong. What then . Yeah. The one challenge that i think we had with the Impeachment Hearings and the russia probe is that there was this sense that trumps not going to get punished, that a lot of the other folks who were involved may not get published in the way that we think that we should be and theres again, this sense that a lot of people who should be in jail, who should be punished in other ways are not going to get punished and that, i think, is the important part of extending the narrative. Yes. This is mustsee tv, but at the end of the day there are people who are going to go to jail as a result of this, and we need to be able to talk that up a lot more, as well, and the fear that i have is that if there isnt accountability, the democrats wont have anything after the January 6th Hearing to be able to go after, and then were in a world of trouble at that point because that suggests to me and to probably some of the others that The Republicans will be able to get away with anything and at that point, how do we stop that . Yeah. You know, whats interesting, a. B. , is if you step back, donald trump waged a war against a rule of law, against jim comey personally, Andrew Mccabe personally, and pete strzok personally, Jeff Sessions he made cry, bill barr, you know, writes about being screamed at, but thats a little more of the tarantulas in a bowl if you ask me, and the people who no longer believe in the rule of law are arent The Republicans. Its the democrats. Democrats believe in the rule of law. Democrats dont believe that it applies evenly. The lack of thinking that these are potent, political issues is because democrats think that if Robert Mueller wrote a volume this big the second half there were six criminal acts that donald trump had engaged in and there were no consequences for him. The extortion of president zelenskyy was a clear abuse of power. They saw The Republicans just shrug their shoulders and say i dont think so and then they saw republicans participate in condemning donald trump and he wasnt convicted for that, so what the republican rule on the rule of law did to the country, basils been talking about 40 minutes about a Criminal Conspiracy and if if he took it to campaign operatives, maybe, maybe not, people dont really believe that theyre held accountable to the same rule of law that we are. People dont believe that the rule of law is for every american and no matter their standing and the proximity to power are by and large, democrats and independents. Not republicans. It is unfortunate that democrats are afraid of this subject because they think it doesnt poll well and that americans dont care about the threats to democracy and the erosion of the rule of law by the right in the last six years. Yes. They also know that voters are burnt out on the fact that people who who melt the rule of law in our institutions face no accountability and someone like donald trump has gotten away with everything. This is part of the reason why i wrote that piece. Look at what The Republicans have gotten away with. Dont you think its important that we discuss before they take control of the congress . Its really its tough for democrats to face this, but they dont really have a choice and theyre optimistic than anyone else about the January 6th Hearing. I do believe they know what happened. They know the democrats as a party did not respond that bill barr destroyed the mueller report, and the idea of it being amplified and digested by the American Public by lying about it and not releasing it until three weeks after he lied about it and the democrats did not fight back about that. I think they learned and they have been burned and i do believe that as betsy describes, they are trying to make this coverageling and if you dont dont sit down to ride the hearings. It will be shared, it will be talked about and parts of it will go quite viral and it would woshl through and they go with the Invest Dwagdz and the administration. I think so, too. I think Michael Steeles idea, take it to hbo. Michael steele, bacile smarkel, thank you for joining us. Ambassador Michael Mcfall is our guest. Stay with us. Ambassador Michael Mcfall is our guest. Stay with us overthecounter eye drops typically work by lubricating your eyes and may provide temporary relief. Thosell probably pass by me. Xiidra works differently, targeting inflammation that can cause dry eye disease. Xiidra . No it can provide lasting relief. Xiidra is approved to treat the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. Dont use if youre allergic to xiidra. Common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied to the eye, and unusual taste sensation. Got any room in your eye . Ask your doctor if a 90day prescription is right for you. And pay as little as 0. I prefer you didnt xiidra. Not today, dry eye. Wayday wayfairs biggest sale of the year is here. Right now for two days only, april 27th and 28th. Save on all the upgrades you need to refresh your space your way. Thats why we carry a large selection of kitchen faucets. So that your little update can make a big difference. Wayfair has all the easy upgrades. From Cabinet Hardware to peel and stick tile. And with the lowest prices of the year on everything from bathtubs to vanities. Even your big projects are no big deal. Wayfair, youve got just what i need i may be close to retirement, but im as busy as ever. And thanks to voya, im confident about my future. Voya provides guidance for the right investments. They make me feel like ive got it all under control. [crowd cheers] voya. Be confident to and through retirement. Bottom line, all of these actions weve been taking are about the truth, this truth, investing in ukraines freedom and security is a small price to pay to punish russian aggression to lessen the risk of future conflicts. Throughout our history weve learned that when dictators do not pay the price for their a dregz they cause more chaos and engage in more aggression. They keep moving. The cost, the threats to america and the world keep rising. We cant let this happen. President biden on the cost of allowing russia to continue the war against ukraine. Cost isnt cheap. The president asking congress for another 33 billion for military and humanitarian relief as they have the conflict to stretch for months and theyre seeking new legal powers to enforce sanctions on the creme line propose the authority to liquidate assets and pay the funds toward the ukrainian war effort. All of that comes as ukraine files the first criminal charges against russia. The ukrainian prosecutors investigating war crimes in bucha named ten individual russian soldiers accused of taking civilian hostages and they covered 400 dead civilians after Russian Forces retreated late last month. Joining us is former ambassador to russia Michael Mcfall. I believe you were the first person i heard say on tv on this show or another one that it was knowable which unit this was and that you could find out exactly the Chain Of Command for the russian soldiers responsible for the civilian massacre in bucha. What do you make of how quickly charges have been brought for war crimes . I think its fantastic and it sends a powerful signal to soldiers when they learn of this and it will be a deterrent, and i am deeply impressed with the speed with which the ukrainians do everything, nicole, and not just this, but they, i think this is really important what theyre doing and that theyre doing it quickly matters, as well. I want to read just for our viewers who they were because they were awarded by Vladimir Putin and this is what they face in the rest of the world. All ten were noncommissioned officers and privates from russias 64 separate guards, motor Rifle Brigade and one of the units that took part in the monthlong occupation of bucha. Putin granted the Rifle Brigade a guards honorific in a friday announcement in the telegrams channel. The Ministry Of Defense promoted an officer in the unit to colonel. So for russia, its not just a parallel reality. Its rewarding the most heinous acts of the war. Im not sure there is a moment that encapsulates the brutality and reward structure for it. More than this. I agree. Ive run out offage tifrs to describe how horrible this is, and i dont even like the war because killing children with Cruise Missiles is not war and the second part is what you just noted and these people are being rewarded. What happened in bucha is not a mistake. When we kill these people in afghanistan, yes, we killed people in iraq. Yes on occasion u. S. Forces have killed civilians and its been by accident and not on purpose and we dont reward soldiers when that happens and we investigate those kinds of killings. This is on purpose. Remember, we had talked about this before about bucha. Putin could have cleaned up bucha. He could have done that. No, he wanted this to be there as a deterrent to terrorize ukrainian people and thats why hes rewarding these soldiers and i hope some day they will seek there will be justice before them through the National Channels that the ukrainians are now using. Amal clooney, a human rights lawyer married to George Clooney tried to get the u. N. To not look away. I think that can be harder than people might think about a body like the u. N. Let me show you her blunt message about russias brutality today. Ukraine is today a slaughterhouse right in the heart of europe. I still read News Headlines not knowing quite how to process them. Could it be that thousands of children are being forcibly deported to russia . Could it be that teenage girls are being raped in the street in front of their family and their neighbors . Was a building that had the word children on it really bombed . And are civilians today in mariupol systematically being tortured and starved to death . Unfortunately, the answer is yes. You know this better than i do, but i think one of the ukrainians concerns and fears is that not only will we look away, but well get numb to it. She seemed to do a service to that end in making sure we do not and that the u. N. Does not. What do you think . What a great, very powerful, but two, we need more actions. Its not sufficient just to investigate whats already happened. We need new sanctions. Im part of a team, a Working Group of international experts, we just published a big paper last week where one of the things we call for is to label russia a State Sponsor of terrorism. There are four countries in the world that the State Department does that now. We think russia meets the criteria for that and we lay out many other things. It is not sufficient just to say this is horrific. We now have to act and we have to punish russia, russians, and the entire russian economy so that theyll begin to think about ending this war. And you know, i want to ask you about that. We have to sneak in a quick break but i asked congressman jim himes about that and he agreed with you and said Speaker Pelosi agreed too. I want to press you on where that debate is behind closed doors. Press you on where that debate is behind closed doors. This is vuity™, an fdaapproved eye drop that improves agerelated blurry near vision. Wait, what . It sounded like you just said an eye drop that may help you see up close. I did. Use vuity™ with caution in night driving and hazardous activities in poor light. Also, if your vision is not clear, do not drive or use machinery. Contact your doctor immediately if you have sudden vision loss. Most common sideeffects are headache and eye redness. Ask your eye doctor about vuity™. And see for yourself. Learn how to sign up and save at myvuitypoints. Com i got a call from some scammer who had the nerve to ask for my medicare number. I was not born yesterday. 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Does that make it easier for his opponents to say, hey, this is totally off the rails, this is hes such a reckless steward of our country, he must go . What do you think the effect would be inside russia . Well, inside russia, it would make things more financially difficult for russians because when youre on that list, its harder to transact with State Sponsors of terrorism and i want to remind your viewers, the list right now is north korea, iran, syria, and cuba, and i want people to make me an argument that cuba is sponsoring more terrorism in the world today than russia, and if theyre not, then i think we have a moral responsibility to put them on the list. And i do think it makes it much more difficult for transactions to happen, and remember, another really important thing about sanctions, that i think is not well appreciated, when you do a sanction like that, individual businesses also think twice about what they should or should not do with a country like russia. Already, several Hundred American and european businesses have pulled out because they dont want to be associated with the regime like this. And its a stain that lasts forever. Its an extraordinary step, but youre right, even ive asked state Department Spokesman ned price and nobody quibbles with the technical definition being met by what russia is doing in ukraine. Well stay on it. Thank you for raising that today, ambassador mcfaul. Thank you so much for your time. Pentagon Spokesman John Kirby will join us in the next hour on what we know about a pair of explosions just this afternoon in kyiv. Up next for us, zoe lofgren will be our guest. Theres a lot of information out today. Well talk about it all next. Lot today. Today. Well talk about it all next time for ache and burn overthecounter eye drops typically work by lubricating your eyes and may provide temporary relief. Thosell probably pass by me. Xiidra works diffe, targeting inflammation that can cause dry eye disease. Xiidra . 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Plus, get Bonus Savings with a wayfair credit card and Free Shipping on everything shop way day deals now for two days only at wayfair. Com. Wayfair youve got just what i need i was injured in a car crash. I had no idea how much my case was worth. I called the barnes firm. When a truck hit my son, i had so many questions about his case. I called the barnes firm. It was the best call i couldve made. Your case is often worth more than insuran call the barnes firm to find out i couldve made. What your case could be worth. We will help get you the best result possible. The barnes firm, Injury Attorneys call one eight hundred,est resul Eight Million its a fraud, an absolute fraud. I mean, you cant just submit these ballots and not have them checked. This election was stolen by mailin ballots. Those are the ballots that were stuck in the machine eight times, nine times, ten times. They elected donald trump. They didnt elect joe biden. Joe biden is in the lead because of the fraudulent ballots. Lets have trial by combat. Literally indecipherable from the snl caricature. Its 5 00 in new york. Subpoenaed by the 1 6 Committee Back in january, Donald Trumps former personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, is a central figure in the story of the expresident s effort to overturn the results of an election he lost in 2020. Rudy giuliani actively spread the big lie, going state to state to state, Spouting Bogus Claims of voter fraud, getting laughed out of court for doing so. He promoted lies about rigged voting systems, lies hes been sued to the tune of 1. 3 billion over telling the Committee Also points out in its subpoena of giuliani this, quote, On January 6th and in the days prior, you were in contact with then President Trump and members of Congress Regarding strategies for delaying or overturning the results of the 2020 election. Today, two sources familiar confirmed to nbc news that rudy is expected to appear before the 1 6 committee soon. No date has been set. Giuliani coming before the committee follows other notable appearances by some in Donald Trumps Innermost Circle, including his daughter, ivanka, and ivankas husband, jared. Donald trumps son, don junior, is also expected to meet with the 1 6 committee in the very near future. Since it began its work, the committee has conducted nearly 900 depositions and interviews and has received more than 102,000 documents. In addition to the mountains of evidence and testimony it has already gathered. The committee is also grappling with this weeks bombshell leaks of audio of Kevin Mccarthy and Republican Leaders talking amongst themselves in the aftermath of the deadly insurrection, saying, among other shocking things to the rest of us, that donald trump was responsible for the attack, at least partially, and that they were worried that the incendiary rhetoric from some of their own Caucus Members in the gop would result in more violence. The mccarthy tapes, along with the thousands of texts obtained by cnn, which we know mark meadows likely handed over to the committee before he stopped cooperating with it, turn up the heat even more on the panel to investigate the full scope of involvement by some Congressional Republicans in the coup attempt. This afternoon, we heard from Committee Chairman Bennie Thompson, who in the last hour, said that the first of at least eight Public Hearings will take place on june 9th. Chairman thompson weighed in on the committee preparing to ask several republican lawmakers to provide testimony. Take a listen. And then you said by the end of the week, you would decide whether to ask additional republican members to come in. Mccarthy was going to be asked. Can you give us an update on that in is yeah. We will do that. Before the weeks out. For mccarthy . And the others too. And the others too. So youre going to ask all three once again, voluntarily, to appear before the committee . Thats correct. Well, some other members will be sent letters, and we plan to provide the press copies of the letters. Folks, we dont already know about . Thats correct. Well, we will ask more than three people. This week . Who are members. Yes. All republicans . At this point. In the house . Yes. Any senators . Yes. Would i be wrong to say senator cruz, senator lee . You got to stand by. Fun reporting to showcase from my colleague, ali vitali. Our first guest joining us right now, congresswoman zoe lofgren of california. Always very generation with her time. We have to start by pressing you to see if theres any more you can tell us about The Republicans you will ask again to share their recollections, maybe those audiotapes refresh them, with the 1 6 committee. Let me just say that as the chairman said, we will be asking quite a few members to come in and speak to the committee and we will release the letters publicly, and heres why i think members may want to respond. We have detailed some of the questions we have based on some of the evidence that we have obtained, so its not just general, gosh, wed like to know whats on your mind, but specific areas of inquiry, and i would hope that the members that received these letters would respond, because this is serious stuff. Congresswoman, the first audiotape that leaked, in a its notable that Kevin Mccarthy is speaking as though hes certain that donald trump will be impeached, and hes talking about a pardon. Obviously, no one gets pardoned unless theyve committed crimes. Are you interested in knowing what crimes Kevin Mccarthy thinks donald trump committed . And is that important enough to subpoena him, if he doesnt come in . Well, ill let you just read the letter. Youll have it very soon. That we will be sending to mr. Mccarthy. And it outlines what we want to talk to him about. But for myself, he had conversations with the president. Wed like to know about that. When he said the president was to blame privately, he said that publicly right after the insurrection, as did Senator Mcconnell Say that the president did this. So, the fact that it was on tape and, you know, was a private conversation was not that different than what he had said publicly. Of course, now hes completely changed his position. We would like to have more information about his communications with the president , both on the day, and really, were very interested in the variety of activities that occurred leading up to the 6th, as ive said before. This wasnt just some random event. This there were a number of things that preceded it. This was a plot that involved many people, and we need to untangle every element of it. Youre always very you know, theres the sanctity of sort of the evidence that you protect on the part of the investigation that you and your committee and the investigators, many former u. S. Attorneys and assistant u. S. Attorneys are conducting and we dont get many glimpses of it, but we did in the filing for mr. Meadows, and we saw that one of the witnesses, ms. Hutchinson, was able to name almost a dozen republican members who were at the white house and made aware of the plans. Obviously, something you knew before we did, but does that make it an unacceptable outcome not to have their information or their testimony in some form as part of your probe . Well, we are certainly asking a variety of members to come in for a serious reason. We hope that they will. We expect that they will, because not only will they be obliged to do so, but it will be given that weve outlined what the concerns are in these letters. Im sure theyll want to tell the truth if they think they did a good thing, presumably, they would want to come in and tell the committee about the good that they have done. I do think that as we proceed, and weve the chairman has announced well be having hearings in june we have compiled a huge amount of the information, and as we do, sometimes additional questions are raised, and certainly the filings in the motion to dismiss on mr. Meadows lawsuit really called out a need for the committee to outline some of the evidence, which we did. I mean, it wasnt everything we have, obvious, but just let the court have some idea of what we were dealing with here. And were going back in time, but we we thought it was really striking in that filing, along with ms. Hutchinsons testimony, was the sworn testimony to all of you that mr. Meadows was made aware of the possibility of violence, which makes some premedicated knowledge of how violent things would become or could become, something that at the highest levels of the white house, they possessed. Does that change or alter any of your thoughts . I know its a deliberation, not a Decision Point thats been reached about a criminal referral. Well, obviously, we have to make that decision when weve finished the whole presentation. I dont think that what happened on the 6th was a minor matter. There was an effort to overturn the constitution, and as judge carter noted in his decision, in california, it was more likely than not that the president and his lawyer, mr. Eastman, engaged in Criminal Activity or fraud. So, the information about prior knowledge of violence is very serious. But its not the only significant information that we have that leads us to great concern about the actions of many people involved in this plot. Conservative judge ludig has been quoted in the New York Times and the Washington Post and hes authored his own post in cnn that shifts the conversation to 2024. He describes the republican efforts in the states and in congress as a Clear And Present Danger. Just a word that has, frankly, a cinematic connotation, but a very real constitutional connotation in the old Republican Party, the one that i used to work in. Do you have a an ability to sort of quantify how much of the committees work will be focus on the safeguarding our elections and our democracy for the next election . Well, obviously, telling the truth about what almost happened in the 2020 election is part of protecting ourselves in the future. People understand the truth, how close we came to eliminating our system of government, really. But were also working on a variety of legislative matters that we think will strengthen our democracy, whether or not we can get those all enacted, we dont know yet, but we do think, first, shining a light, having americans understand the truth is the first, most important thing that we can do to safeguard the democracy. Obviously, were not prosecutors. Were a legislative body. All of our information will be available to the public as well as the Department Of Justice to do whatever they think is right, and thats not our judgment, but were certainly not going to keep our evidence a secret. I want to ask you about Rudy Giuliani. Can you confirm reports that he is scheduled to come before the committee to share something . Well, as you know, we are the rules of the committee prohibit us from confirming whos coming in or not, but you do know that we have asked mr. Giuliani to come in for some time. We have a lot of questions for him. We have received a lot of evidence relative to his conduct that we would like to discuss with him. So, i hope that we can soon have that opportunity. I want to just ask you one last question about what you will deem a success. Public hearings are now, we have a start date, we know when theyll start. Theyll start june 8th. Its clear that the investigation is this churning, massive undertaking, so the timetable makes perfect sense when you get these little glimpses, as i said, a filing here or a revelation there, but i wonder what, in your view, will be deemed a successful phase of Public Hearings. Well, i guess ill leave that up to the public to some extent, but for me, its to tell the complete story about what happened in a way thats accessible to americans. I mean, we have to go to where people are, not expect them to check out a thousandpage report. We need to explain this in ways that are truthful, that are credible, understandable, and a result where all of us recommitted to our free democracy, our Free Democratic republic would be a success. Including the republican leader. You bet. Congresswoman zoe lofgren, thank you so much for being so generous with your time today. Were grateful. Thanks. Joining our conversation, barbara mcquade, a former u. S. Attorney, now University Of Michigan law professor, with us onset, former Top State Department official rick stengel. Both are msnbc contributors. Barb, i start with you. On this information, i wont call it evidence yet because that seems like a term of art, but this information and this audio that we now all know of because of the two New York Times reporters who have written a book and shared some of their audiotapes that they used for their reporting, we know that Kevin Mccarthy thought that donald trump hadnt just committed a crime but that he would certainly be impeached and he didnt want to Start Talking out loud about the pword, pardon. No one gets pardoned unless theyve committed crimes. What do you do with that in terms of a congressional investigation and if there is one, a doj investigation . Well, it really begs the question, nicole, about what it was that was on his mind that caused him to believe donald trump had committed crimes. You know, certainly, it may be some of the things were already aware of, but maybe theres more. Kevin mccarthy is a really critically important witness here. I think, you know, for the two Different Missions that the Department Of Justice have in terms of finding whether there was any kind of criminal conduct that was occurring and needs to be held accountable but also more broadly the congressional inquiry, which is really just figuring out what happened so that they can document it for history and enact any legislation thats necessary to shore up the gaps they were trying to take advantage of. And so, you know, so often, we see Congress Really reluctant to call its own, members of its own house, as witnesses, because what Goes Around Comes Around and nobody wants to find themselves on the other end of a subpoena down the road. But in this instance, its so different from normal situations, because the members of the house are the victims themselves. It was an attack on congress. So, i dont see how you get away without Talking To Mccarthy as a witness. And ive lost the plot, rick stengel, other than his political concerns, or his fear of donald trump, and im not sure how you win an election for anything if youre a scaredy cat. Of why he wouldnt want to share this. This is the best version of Kevin Mccarthy. Let me play some of these tapes that the New York Times reporters writing this shall not pass have obtained and shared. Let me be very clear to all of you and the president. He bears responsibilities for his words and actions,no if, ands or buts. I asked him personally today, does he hold responsibility for what happened . Does he feel bad about what happened . He told me he does have some responsibility for what happened. And he needed to acknowledge that. This isnt a mealymouth, squishy or undecided Kevin Mccarthy. This is he bears responsibility for his words and actions, no if, ands or buts, i asked him personally, he told me he does have responsibility for what happened. Well, if Kevin Mccarthy had a conversion on the road to damascus, then i would say, yes, ive seen the light. I knew what was the truth, you know, On January 6th and january 11th, but hes an incredible hypocrite, and so i think part of the task of the january 6th committee, as weve been saying, is to tell the story but to tell the story in a way that makes sense to people, that there was this conspiracy to overturn the constitution, this conspiracy to not have a peaceful transfer of power, and that there are people who knew it at the time and still know it and now deny it and then there were people that were conspiring, probably criminally, to overturn the constitution and obstruct justice. Thats the job of the committee. The job of the Justice Department, as barbara said, is to prosecute, but i think until the American People really know what happened, thats partially what will preserve our democracy. Well, i mean, i guess if i were to push back, i mean, barbara mcquade, the American People were given all of the information and a lot of people today have made the point that bill barr smeared the results of Robert Muellers investigation in the three weeks between its conclusion was announced and its substance was released to the public. But just giving people information seems to be, you know, half of it. I mean, we have this information. We have Kevin Mccarthy in his own words. We have the evidence that liz cheney, whos on all those recordings, was purged from leadership and Kevin Mccarthy is funding her primary challenger to try to get her out of the Republican Party and out of congress. If youre looking at this in terms of a potential whether any crimes were committed, does the conversion really matter . Or do you look at the conduct and the words when the incidents or alleged incidents or incidents under scrutiny occur . Absolutely. I dont think you worry about any sort of conversion that, well, hes seen the light and now everythings okay. I think it is important to separate the two things and the two functions. The Justice Departments role and congresss role. Just as we saw with the 9 11 commission report, they gathered all the evidence, they figured out what happened in congress, and then they enacted legislation to shore up some holes that existed in the law to prevent problems from occurring again. That needs to happen on the congressional side. On the Justice Department side, i think if they can put together enough evidence to find crimes that were committed and to me, the two i would be looking for here are conspiracy to defraud the United States, which is a fraud scheme to obstruct the proper functioning of government, or conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, and it seems like theres lots of good evidence to support those things. If they can find enough to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt, i think Holding People accountable is critically important to sending a strong message of deterrence and to protecting the institutions of our government. And i think thats why were watching. They have already charged some of the insurrectionists with those charges, right, obstructing an official proceeding and i think three jury trials that have been had, theyve all been found guilty. On all counts. So we keep an eye on that for that very reason. Barbara mcquade, thank you so much for spending time with us and making sense of it. Rick sticks around for the hour. When we come back, with republicans still pushing big lie candidates to oversee, of all things, elections, in swing states, all across this country, from one coast to the other, one democrat is launching a brandnew effort to take them on and fight back. Former Senate Candidate amy mcgrath is making a big announcement. She makes it right here with us next. Plus, on the ground in ukraine, where officials in kyiv report two new russian strikes against the ukrainian capital. Well have the live report from there. And later, Pentagon Press secretary john kirby will be our guest on how president bidens request for more military aid will help ukraine defeat the russian army. Deadline white house continues after a quick break. Deadline white house continues after a quick break. Tech when you have auto glass damage, trust safelite. This dad and daughter were driving when they got a crack in their windshield. [smash] dad its okay. Pull over. Tech he wouldnt take his car just anywhere. Pop rock music tech . So he brought it to safelite. We replaced the windshield and recalibrated their cars advanced safety system, so features like Automatic Emergency Braking will work properly. Tech alright, all finished. Dad wow, thats great. Thanks. Tech stay safe with safelite. Schedule now. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Under District Attorney gascon, i prosecuted car breakins. All Repeat Offenders, often in organized crime rings. But when chesa boudin took office, he dissolved the unit and stopped me from collaborating with the police on my cases. Now home and car breakins are on the rise because Repeat Offenders know they can get away with it. Chesa boudin is failing to do his job. Theres a better way to keep San Francisco safe. Recall chesa boudin now. Here in washington, they dont build monuments to Secretaries Of State, but maybe they should. Donald trump thinks this is the weakest link in the chain because its an office no one pays attention to. So, hes been recruiting Election Deniers to run for Secretary Of State in crucial swing states this year. People who will do whatever he asks when they count the ballots in the next president ial election. We have to stop this from happening. Its the story we led with the top of the last hour. Thats amy mcgrath there, about to join us with her brandnew announcement on this fight, her fight against the disgraced expresident s attempt to handpick Election Deniers for Secretaries Of State to replace those few who bravely walk the line and did their jobs and likely had more to do than anybody else in preventing his attempt to overturn the result of the 2020 election. Heres what shes talking about. In georgia, theres congressman jody hice, who, according to the january 6th committee testimony, participated in a white house meeting on overturning the 2020 election. Hes now campaigning for Secretary Of State on Donald Trumps lies about the election result. In arizona, state congressman mark finchum, a member of the oath keepers, yes, the oath keepers militia group, who participated in the Capitol Insurrection, is running for the office there. In michigan, the first Election Denier to officially receive a party endorsement, republicans overwhelmingly backed kristina karamo, who has repeatedly spread lies about Election Fraud and farright conspiracies. Again, all of them have already been endorsed and chosen by trump and his team in his effort to get who and what he wants from the individuals who oversee our elections at the state and local levels, loyalty that can do a lot more damage this time around, next time. Joining us onset to announce this new effort, against those efforts, amy mcgrath, former kentucky Senate Candidate, a retired u. S. Marine corps lieutenant colonel. Rick stengel, still here. Tell me about the effort and then tell me how its going to work. Well, look, we have a Clear And Present Danger to our country right now. In donald trump trying to subvert our very elections system, and its something that were not paying enough attention to, and it is happening right now. Its happening in states like arizona, michigan, minnesota. Georgia. Nevada. Georgia. All over. And what he is trying to do is to help support and then get elected these Election Deniers who are trump loyalists who are basically going to do his bidding in 2024. Okay . And if you look back at 2020, and the elections there, you know, he was thwarted in his attempt to overturn the election by people in these key positions of Secretaries Of State who were people of integrity. Democrats and republicans, right . Exactly. Its nonpartisan. People of integrity who just their job is to count the votes. Their job is to certify the election. And he has said, this is the weakest link, this is the path to the white house. If i can replace these people of integrity with people who will do my bidding, with these Election Deniers, then i can get there. Thats his path. Okay . And its happening its not just a theory. Its happening. As we saw, last weekend, in michigan, 70 of the convention, the Gop Convention in michigan, supported this one candidate who is an Election Denier, qanon conspiracy theorist, i mean, this is happening. And right now, there needs to be an effort, a coordinated effort, to push back on that. If you love this country, you love our democracy, youre going to stand up for our democracy, as i have in uniform, as those of us who have served, weve got to do something, and thats what this project is about. Its called the american s. O. S. Project, and its about fighting back and making sure we do not have these Election Deniers in these key positions. We bang the table every day and say, when is someone going to do something . Youre doing something. Tell me whos involved in the effort. Tell me how you support people of integrity, and youre right. I mean, these are not when he its so funny. Everything is opposite. So when he calls it the weakest link, theyre the strongest link, right, the people of integrity, democrats and republicans, who simply didnt cheat. Right. Thats what they did. How are you going to find the candidates . The candidates are already out there and our job is to make sure that the Election Denier candidates do not win. These are very important races. A lot of them are happening in Battleground States. Theyre going to be contested races. And quite frankly, the reason why this effort is so important is often these races are overlooked. In the past, weve been privileged here in america to have people of integrity in some of these key election positions, just count the votes properly. But now, were in an age, in the age of trump, where we have to patriots who love this country have to make sure that these Election Deniers do not get into these offices, and really, its a Grassroots Effort around the country to stand up. We got to do this. Its nonpartisan. They were, in their own words, the targets of threats of violence. Is it harder to recruit people for these jobs . I think it is. But there are enough people who have stood up and said, you know, im going to run, and im going to count the votes properly. Unfortunately, in all these states that we just talked about, the front runners, at least on the republican side, are all Election Deniers, and this is the problem. So we have to fight back. We have to come together. And support this effort because you know, it is our democracy. And your role is to coordinate the National Effort but to drop resources and absolutely. Were going to run a campaign in these states where theres an Election Denier. Were going to be watching each state very closely, and to make sure that we educate the voters in those states. Again, these are not races that are normally that we normally spend a lot of resources on. But boy, we have to. Heres why. We dont want to be, in 2023, 2024, looking back and saying, wow, weve got five Battleground States where the Secretaries Of State, in those states, are all Trump Supporters and Election Deniers. We dont want to be in that position. If were in that position in 2024, its too late. There are 27 states up for reelection for this particular job, this year, so we have to put the effort in this year. Its a sixmonth sprint right now and honestly, i didnt think i would have to do Something Like this. You know what changed my mind . When i started to really worry about this was when i listened to the tapes. That President Trump made when he called Secretary Of State raffensperger. Its incredible. If you had never listened to your tape. Its incredible. 90 minutes. Its incredible. Take a moment. Its a long tape, but take that moment of that one or two minutes to listen to donald trump berating the Secretary Of State. And what hes asking him to do. Just find 11,000 find me 11,780 votes and just do it. Not only that, but threatening him with criminal prosecution. Thats something where, you know, the bells should be going off in any americans mind right there. And thats when i was like, okay, this is a theory. This could happen. Now were seeing it being executed. And again, this is what The Republicans, what the trump what donald trump is trying to do to get back into office. He knows he cant get elected legitimately in the United States. So, he has to build the plot here to make sure that he can get in through these means. Is it illegal, what he does on that call . I think it is. I mean, i would hope it is. If you listen to the tape, its outrageous. Its unbelievable. I mean, for me, i never thought in my lifetime that i would be listening to an american president trying to rig an election like that. Trying to find the votes. After the fact. I mean, hes you know, i listened to i dont get our viewers have had enough and theyre steeped in every twist and turn of the trump story, but i listened to that tape. That was the sunday before the insurrection and i came on the air monday, and i said i know its long, but you have to listen to the whole thing. And now that we talked to the 1 6 committee and we have super opaque to us what, if anything, doj is doing, you listen to the tape, hes clearly asking a georgia official to go change a thrice counted once city counciled, once recounted and a second audit result in the state. Its amazing there have been no consequences for that call. Amazing, rick. So he knows this was the weak link in his plot in 2020 and he knows if he can change that and just have people that will do his bidding next time, that when its a close race, hes just going to call up his buddy and theyre going to throw the election to the legislature, by and large republicancontrolled legislatures in these states, or they could have endless investigations, decertify the vote and then what happens when you have a republican potentially house of representatives . You throw it into chaos. This is a problem and this could throw our democracy completely up in the air. Rick, how important do you put these Secretary Of State races . Super important. I mean, i applaud what youre doing. People dont Pay Attention to them. In fact, i mean, as steve bannon has been telling people, you have to run for all of these lower level electoral offices, not just Secretary Of State. Ladders up to Secretary Of State. Its not just who votes but who counts the vote and trump wants to make sure his own people count the vote and its the beginning of authoritarianism where the loyalty is to the person, not the system. As you said, traditionally, these were nonpartisan people who were loyal to the system so i think this is so important but all those other smaller races are important too. Thats right. Its interesting. If he thought he could win, he wouldnt need them. So it is, like, if you really back up, it is a sign of incredible weakness. Please keep us posted in terms of how it all goes. I appreciate it. Americansos. Org. Youre sticking around. And rick, youre stuck for the whole hour. Well have a live report from kyiv where two large explosions were heard in the city center. Ions were heard in e ions were heard in e city center. We believe theres an innovator in all of us. Thats why we build technology that makes it possible for every business. And every person. 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Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. Tell your doctor about your medicines and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. Way day, wayfairs biggest sale of the year is here. And if youre pregnant or planning to be. Right now for two days only, april 27th and 28th, get the lowest prices on thousands of items for your home. Shop Outdoor Furniture up to 65 off. Rugs up to 80 off. And lighting up to 65 off. Plus, get Bonus Savings with a wayfair credit card and Free Shipping on everything shop way day deals now for two days only at wayfair. Com. Wayfair youve got just what i need what i feel, i imagine my family in one of those houses. That is now destroyed, and black. The war is an absurdity in the 21st century. The war is evil. And when we see these situations, our hearts, of course, stay with the victims, our condolences to their families, but our emotions are, there is no way a war can be acceptable in the 21st century. The war is evil. That was u. N. Secretary general Antonio Guterres today in kyiv speaking firsthand about the horrors he has seen while on the ground touring the capital city. After his meeting with ukrainian president zelenskyy, two explosions were heard in kyiv as the russian attacks continue. All this comes as prosecutors today announced the very first criminal charges for those war crimes and that investigation into the atrocities in bucha. Ten russians have been charged for their actions during the occupation in the kyiv suburb. Lets bring in nbc news correspondent cal perry on the ground in kyiv. Cal, i know youve got reporting on all these fronts, so just take us through all of it. Start with the explosions and then just take us through your reporting today. Reporter okay, so, first on the explosions, about three and a half hours ago, not far from our location here, so, in central kyiv, a building, residential building, hit, at least ten people wounded in that strike. The president of ukraine saying at least five Cruise Missiles were fired at the capital. Not clear if some of them were knocked down by air defense. That doesnt really matter. Things knocked down by air defense still hit the ground and cause casualties. Erin mclaughlin making it to the scene and reporting one of those residential buildings was damaged. We were under an embargo for about three hours where we dont show the scene. It was a residential area. I explain that as a way of explaining to the viewers that the Ukrainian Government does not want to give away these locations because they dont want the russians to hit there again. We were on the ground in bucha as well. We can show some of this video of this main morgue in bucha. This is where death is counted from this war. We spent most of the morning there. Its an interNational Effort. These are two american volunteers you see on your screen now. At least 400 civilians were massacred, according to the United Nations in bucha. There, of course, is an investigation under way. You see there some of the french Forensic Experts who are trying to identify these bodies. Its an impossible scene in many ways. This video was shot by our photojournalist. Youre seeing videos of families waiting for sometimes weeks to identify their loved ones. There was a scene that we witnessed of a woman who identified her loved one who had been decapitated. She was only able to do so by looking at a sock. For the volunteers, it is an everyday impossible job. Take a listen to what one of the american volunteers told us. Its unlike anything ive ever experienced. Its probably the hardest thing ive ever had to do, not just with transporting and moving the bodies but just to see the Family Members in pain. It rips my heart out. I just its almost its just hard. Its hard. Very hard. Reporter sometimes i think we talk in a sanitized manner about this war, but when you look at this woman, this is the woman who identified her husband based on a sock, you get a better picture of what it is the Ukrainian Government is weighing when they look at these battlefield gains, when they look at continuing this war, when they look at rushing weapons to the front and then the human cost. We witnessed a child coming to the site today. There he is. With his mom. Looking for his father. And of course, the person he needed most was in one of those coolers and this is playing out across the country, nicole. This is the end of the line of war, and it is truly horrific. The horrors are rewarded. The unit that was charged today, all ten of those soldiers, were awarded by Vladimir Putin himself. One of them was promoted to colonel. How does that affect these victims, and how does that manifest in the proficiency and the determination on the battlefield . One doesnt erase the other. One doesnt avenge the other. These people are gone forever, but how does that ripple . I think it creates a momentum that you then cant stop. So, you know, i think about that child looking for his father, and hell find his father, probably, in one of those, again, one of those mortuary coolers. So, it perpetuates war. Because how do you stop fighting on the Eastern Front when this is playing out in the towns that youre from, if you are fighting on the Eastern Front . These explosions across the border in russia looks like, you know, a new front to this war, even the threats that Vladimir Putin made against the capital, which came true today. He did strike the capital. You talk to people here, look, our local producer who came with us to the morgue, i said, what do you want the world to know . I ask everybody that question. She said, send us more weapons. She cursed when she said it. Send us more weapons. The kneejerk reaction to burying loved ones is, lets go kill the people who did this. And again, when you travel to bucha and the secretary general would have seen this today, the city has been destroyed. Everywhere you go is destruction. People are still buried in gardens. You still have Family Members going to these morgues with just a piece of information. I heard my husband was killed on this road and that he was mutilated in this way, and you have french doctors trying to match that up. When thats going on, its impossible to have the conversation, i think, in many ways, about how do you stop this war, nicole. Well, you have that conversation, and you dont sanitize anything and im so, so grateful to you. Cal perry, your reportings in a league of its own. Thank you so much. Stay safe, my friend. How do you hear that . I mean, this isnt cant be sanitized for you either. I mean, Vladimir Putin is evil. And we have to call it out. We have to i give credit to the Biden Administration for their handling of this. I am just so thankful that we have a president who has surrounded himself with competent individuals in the cabinet to be able to care about our alliances, our partners, and to push back on Vladimir Putin and do whatever we can, use as many means, as many elements of national power, you know, that we can do right now. Certainly, in giving the ukrainians military aid, but also in helping with intelligence, in helping squeeze the russian oligarchs, using our department of treasury and commerce and these other elements of power that we have, and im just really thankful we have an administration that knows how to do that. That can call putin evil. Should putin be designated as a State Sponsor of terror . I think he should. Although you know, i defer to the diplomats on this hes already there. He said so last week. I say that because i know that that creates problems with trying to get somebody to the table to come up with a solution. Settlement. A settlement. I mean, we want to be we want this thing to stop. So, you know, thats why we need to have diplomats that know what theyre doing. Youre already there, right . Im already there. Compared to the other countries that are already designated State Sponsors of terror, syria, cuba, libya, iran, i mean, theyre small potatoes compared to what putin is doing. I heard mike mcfaul say earlier, which i agree with, the word war is a euphemism for what Vladimir Putin is doing. Its an atrocity. Its an obscenity. Its beyond any rules of law, which is why they are a State Sponsors of terrorism and by the way, the secretary general, fine to express all those sentiments, but the u. N. Has to do something. The u. N. Has been passive here, so its like russia has a seat on the security council. Expel them. Im with you. Im just happy we have nato. We want to bring our friend, Pentagon Press secretary john kirby, into all this on todays announcement by president biden. Well let him talk to us, explain how its going to help ukraine. Thats next. Explain how its going to help ukraine. Thats next. At vanguard, youre more than just an investor, youre an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. Vanguard. Become an owner. Im greg, im 68 years old. I do motivational speaking in addition to the substitute teaching. I honestly feel that thats my calling to give back to younger people. I think most adults will start realizing that they dont recall things as quickly as they used to or they dont remember things as vividly as they once did. Ive been taking prevagen for about three years now. People say to me periodically, man, youve got a memory like an elephant. Its really, really helped me tremendously. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. We need to reduce Plastic Waste in the environment. Thats why at americas beverage companies, our bottles are made to be remade. Not all plastic is the same. Were carefully designing our bottles to be 100 recyclable, including the caps. Theyre collected and separated from other plastics, so they can be turned back into material that we use to make new bottles. That completes the circle and reduces Plastic Waste. Please help us get every bottle back. President joe biden today asked for 33 billion in aid for military and humanitarian assistance for the ukrainian war effort, as well as increase sanction powers that will allow officials to liquidate the assets of russian oligarchs. Joining our conversation, Pentagon Protection john kirby. We were talking about whether or not to designate russias State Sponsored terror. I know that debate is playing out behind closed doors. Is there anything you can say about that . Thats the purview of the State Department. We want to respect their right to do that. I think theyre having the appropriate discussions about. That what were focused on, and as you just led into, were really focused on making sure ukraine can better defend itself. We just got back from germany. Secretary austin hosted 40some odd nations from all around the world, not just europe, on that task. 33 billion to ukraine. Tell us about this aid package. Just in size. And i know for americans, sometimes these numbers are too big to process. That is a lot of money. Tell us how that flows and when that flows. It is a lot, and i think its a very clear commitment that you can see from president biden, from the administration, about how seriously we take our support to ukraine, and its not just military Security Assistance. Now theres 16 billion dedicated to that. Security austin spoke to that today. Theres 8. 5 billion of effect assistance, another 3 billion for humanitarian assistance to help all the people flung into refuge inside and outside ukraine. Theres an awful lot here, a lot of goodness, and we Hope Congress will approve this speedily so we can get it on its way. Here at the pentagon, the Security Assistance it will help provide us, it will give us flexibility to contract and buy material we can send into ukraine as well as draw down from our own stocks, stuff we have on the shelves. So were eager to get start on the this. What can you tell us about the two blasts in the capital city of kyiv today . Do you have any reports on that . Weve seen reporting here at the pentagon on those two strikes. We dont exactly know what was hit, and were not sure at this early stage what it was hit with, but kyiv has not been immune to air strikes and missile strikes, even since the russians were treated out of kyiv. We have seen strikes in the past. Difficult to know exactly what theyre hitting. In the recent days and weeks weve seen them strike predominantly military targets, places they believe the ukrainians are storing weapons and ammunition. So again, not sure what was hit, but well monitor as best we can. How did you at the pentagon receive news of the five strikes on the day after secretaries blinken and austin were in the country . Was it coincidence . I think the general feeling was this was of a piece of their efforts to increase pressure on the ukrainians ability to rearm themselves, resupply themselves. We dont have perfect b. D. A. , Battle Damage assessment, but it looks like they were hitting of the ukrainians themselves. That was a first assessment. Havent seen anything that would cause us to change our minds on that. We talked right after the horrors of bucha were made known to the world. Today the first war crimes were charged against russian soldiers the, same ten Vladimir Putin elevated. What do you make, what is america to make of the criminals charged with war crimes being rewarded by Vice President . I think rick stengle said it best before the break. This is a representation of the atrocities, the brutality with which the russians are persecuting this war, this conflict inside ukraine. Sadly, nicole, i wish we could say its not going to expand beyond these ten, but i have a feeling it will. The situation in bucha is sadly not by exception here. And i think were going to find more and more atrocities, more criminal behavior by Russian Forces moving forward. Its a piece of the way mr. Putin continues to wage this completely unprovoked war. Secretary austin said that the aim of the not just america, but our allies efforts in ukraine, is to weaken russias military. How do we move toward that goal, and how far away frit are we . Well, look, i think hes already been weakened. He has suffered significant casualty to his ground forces. He has suffered significant losses to armor, aircraft, Missile Defense systems of his own. His military is absolutely weaker now than it was 63 days ago. And what the secretary was talking about is a longstanding Administration Policy here since the beginning of this war that we dont want to see russia able to do this again in the future, and that is why the economic sanctions and the export controls are also having an impact on his ability to wage war. We know for instance, some of the components he needs for precision guyed munitions, hes having trouble getting because of the export controls and sanctions. So we are already having an effect on his ability to not get stronger militarily because of this. There has to be consequences for what mr. Putin is doing. This cant be cost free. Now, it hasnt been, but its really up to the rest of the world, not just the west, not just nato, to make sure that the real that theres real implications, real effects, real consequences for mr. Putin going forward. Hang on, press secretary john kirby, who fields questions from all sorts of people. Were grateful to be among them. Thank you for answering our questions today. Thank you both so much for being with us on set. Feels like old times having people at the table. Thank you so much. Were so grateful. Quick break for us. Well be right back. Grateful. Quick break for us well be right back. Why do nearly one million businesses choose stamps. Com to mail and ship . No more trips to the post office no more paying full price for postage and great rates from usps and ups mail letters ship packages anytime anywhere for less a lot less get our special tv offer a 4week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com try and never go to the post office again and to all of you, thank you so much for letting us into your homes this thursday. Were so grateful. The beat with ari mel we are starts right now. The january 6th committee is holding at least eight Public Hearings this summer in june, beginning on the 9th. One member of that Top Committee says the hearings will, quote, blow the roof off of the house. The chairman tells nbc news theyll be reaching out to republican senators for meetings soon. That brings us to a special guest coming up shortly, congressman adam schiff is live here in this segment, as we say on the news. Hell be joining me live. Were going to get into it. Thats in a couple moments. Whats going