transfer power peacefully. >> and you will not believe the things she can't remember. >> would you advocate for president trump to impose martial law as a way to remain in power? >> i don't recall. >> so you're not denying you did, it you just don't remember? >> i don't remember. >> tonight, what is essentially the first public hearing on january the 6th. i will speak to one of the attorneys bringing the case. plus, new lies, and blockbuster new recordings of the leader of republicans in the house. >> i have had it with this guy. what he did is unacceptable. nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it. >> and why the people of florida will pay as ron desantis tries to council disney, when all in starts now. good evening from washington d.c., i am in for chris hayes. today for the first time, a member of congress had to face some level of accountability for the republican plot to overturn the 2020 presidential election, and especially the january 6th insurrection. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene spent most of the afternoon under oath, after free speech for people, an election campaign finance for -- filed a lawsuit seeking to disqualify her from reelection due to her role in inciting the january 6th insurrection. it is a big deal. historically, politically, and legally. there are all sorts of ramifications that can come out from all of this. as well as from greene's testimony. remember, the three republican members of congress, including minority leader kevin mccarthy, who the january six committee contacted for voluntary interviews have all declined. but today, a member of congress who was accused of playing a role in the insurrection was asked questions in person under oath, for the whole nation to watch. but before we get into marjorie taylor greene's denials, and evasions, let's just remind ourselves what she was posting on her own facebook feed before the insurrection took place. >> and this is an important time in our history. we can't allow this to just be, you know, just to let it go. you can't allow it to just transfer power. peacefully, like joe biden wants, and allow him to come president. because he did not win this election. it is being stolen. and the evidence is there. >> that is a call for votes. there is no other way to describe that other than incitement. i mean, what else is the alternative to it? a peaceful transfer of power? it is a tough clip to push back against, but greene sure tried. >> is it fair to say, representative green, that from election night of 2020, until january six of 2021, you were personal opinion, and your wish, was that congress not certify joe biden as the winner of the 2020 election. >> no. that is not accurate. >> sorry, not accurate? we just saw marjorie taylor greene say herself there should not be a peaceful transfer of power. she even voted against certifying biden's victory, on the night of the insurrection. maybe someone forgot to tell her she was under oath today? although, are right denial was not really her go to move in this hearing. mostly, she just could not remember. especially, weirdly, when it came to her long and shameful record of advocating for political violence. >> did you like a post that said it is quicker, that a bullet to the head would be a quicker way to remove nancy pelosi from her role? >> i have had many people manage my social media account over years. i have no idea who liked that. >> okay. are you testifying under oath it wasn't you? just want to be clear under that. >> i am testifying i have no idea who liked that comment. >> fair enough. it could have been you. right? >> i am telling you i do not -- >> it could have been anyone. anyone. and it could just be that marjorie taylor greene couldn't recall. and as we saw today, there was so much that she could not recall. >> when did you first become aware that they were going to be a demonstration on the sixth? >> i don't recall. >> and who put it on your calendar? >> i don't know. >> so your staff? >> i have no idea. i don't know. i do not recall. i don't recall. i don't remember, i don't think so. i don't recall the exact days. i don't think so. i don't recall that at all. i don't know. i don't recall that it was a video. i don't recall. >> i don't recall. i don't recall. there was a lot of that today. greens seeming inability to remember anything that happened in her only over the last few years reminded me of her mentor disgraced ex president, donald trump, because when he was deposed in december of 2015, he cited the memory lapses 59 times. greene did catch herself one time during today's hearing, when she tried to deny calling how speaker nancy pelosi a traitor before suddenly, oops, remembering she said that on video. >> in fact, do you think that speaker pelosi is a traitor to the country, right? >> i am not answering that question, it is speculation. >> you have said that, haven't you, miss greene? that she is a traitor to the country? >> i haven't said that. >> okay. >> wait. hold on now. i believe by not upholding the border, that that violates her oath of office. >> it could be tough to keep all your lives straight when so much of your life is on video. and sometimes there is not a lot of wiggle room. remember that clip we played earlier where greene said there should not be a peaceful transfer of power? well, she was forced to respond to that specific clip in court today under oath. >> and this is an important time in our history. we can't allow this to just be, you know, just to let it go. you cannot allow it to just transfer of power. peacefully, like joe biden wants. and allow him to become president. because he did not win this election. it is being stolen. and the evidence is there. >> okay. so, that is you, right miss greene? >> yes. that is me. >> and when you say we cannot allow it, we cannot just let it go, the it in that phrase is to have joe biden declared the winner of the 2020 presidential election? >> you are showing a video where there is no reference beforehand, or afterwards. so it is not really my complete, it is hard to get an understanding of what i was saying. >> so your answer is you do not know what you are referring to? >> i don't. you are watching a partial video, with a partial statement of clearly an interview i was doing. i don't know what date it was on, and it definitely is of someone else's twitter, or facebook. i cannot see it from here. >> it is only a partial statement. her exact words were, you can't transfer power peacefully, and allow joe biden to become the president, because he did not win this election. one added context would have made that more acceptable? unless she prefaced it with, a dangerous and crazy thing for me to say would be you can't just allow joe biden to transfer power peacefully. i mean, look, i don't think more context is going to help unless it is thought. after spending most of the hearing questioning green on her public statements and actions, the petitioning lawyers move to her private conversations, including her interactions with ex president trump. >> you have had a number of meetings with him, right? >> yes. >> and you had meetings with him between the election in 2020, and january 20th of 2021, right? >> yes. >> and in those meetings, you discuss with him your advocacy for the idea that there should be martial law declared in the united states? >> no. i do not recall ever saying this. >> well are you seeing it did not happen, or you do not recall? >> i do not recall ever saying that. >> did you discuss that topic? the idea that there should be martial law declared in the united states? prior to the inauguration of president biden? >> your honor, that is covered by executive privilege. >> executive privilege? she is not a member of the executive, and this council is here on her behalf, not on mr. trump's behalf, unless there is something i missed. >> it is not a proper objection, your honor. >> i am sorry. what was the question? >> the question was, weather prior to the inauguration of joe biden, miss greene, whether you advocated for marshall law to be imposed on a conversation with the chief of staff of then president of the united states mr. trump. >> you can answer the question. >> i don't recall. >> did you ever advocate for martial law prior to the inauguration of mr. biden with any member of the white house staff that was part of the trump administration? >> i don't recall. >> i don't know about you, but i personally feel like i would remember if i had advocated for imposing martial law in america with anyone. especially if that person was the president of the united states, or his chief of staff. greene's ridiculous refusal to answer anything truthfully it was hardly convincing. and in many ways, raised even more questions about the republicans attempt to overturn the 2020 election. ben clemens helped develop the strategy against marjorie taylor greene today. he joins me now. ben, thank you so much for coming on the show. how do you think about hearing this for marjorie taylor greene specifically? >> >> well, i think it went very well for the voters of georgia who are challenging her candidacy. i think that it did not go so well for marjorie taylor greene. but she does not have much to work with. she has a long history, as your intro just showed, as advocating for political violence. she has a clear record on twitter, on video, and otherwise in public documentation of calling for her supporters to come to washington on january 6th, and engage in what's she described as our 1776 moment which could only be understood, and certainly was understood as a call to armed resistance to the peaceful transfer of power, which as you noted, she publicly said we cannot allow to happen. so, with all of that, she was left with little to do than deny and a bag, which she did at great, great length. and i think that your coverage that you just provided was the number of refusals to even admit, or deny, but to simply say i do not remember. even to the question of whether she urged the president, the then president, to implement martial law. it cast serious doubt on her credibility. i think that she was trying to deny what she thought she could get away with denying, but not go so far as to not deny something that could be approved, and open her up to a possible perjury prosecution. >> i mean, a simple no would have been fine. did you advocate for martial law? no. it was wet, 16 months ago? not 16 years ago. the idea that she has forgotten whether she advocated for martialized the most ridiculous thing i have heard. from her and i heard a lot of ridiculous things from her. ben, what are you expecting a decision from the judge, and what happens after that under georgia law? >> so, the administrative law judge will make recommended findings that he then would submit to the secretary of state of georgia and then the secretary of state would act on those findings, and our hope, and expectation if the judge reads the testimony the way you have, and the way we have, is that he will conclude that she did engage in insurrection by promoting, and by urging this insurrection, and then the secretary of state will then be in the position to exclude her from the ballot based on those findings. >> so ben, congress woman was greene's lawyer made an argument in his closing that the 14th amendment, the amendment you are using to try to exclude her from office as an alleged insurrectionist was essentially and validated by the 1872 -- have a listen. >> the simple argument about this is the 1872 amnesty act, relieved the disability under section three, to quote, all persons whomsoever. representative green is an all persons whomsoever. >> so he is saying that this 1872 law covers anyone for the rest of the time, what do you make of that line of reasoning? >> it is crazy sane in a word. but more specifically, there is no textual support in the language of that statute. there is no historical support, and historical record for the idea that congress intended not long after section three of the 14th amendment was enacted, to essentially eliminated by giving amnesty to future insurrectionists for all time. insurrectionists who had not been born yet, yet along committed their insurrection, and nor could congress do that. congress could not effectively repeal a constitutional amendment, except by a new constitutional amendment which would have required a ratification by the state, which of course it did not do. and i am not alone in this view. it was the interpretation of judge amy thornton, bergh in federal court, when miss greene made the same argument in the effort to stop the proceedings, a federal district court judge rejected this on the amnesty act, largely on the grounds that i just described. and that is why we were able to go forward today with this hearing. >> well, whatever happens in this hearing been, i am glad we got to see what we saw today. i appreciate bought. i appreciate that it got to this point. ben clemens, thank you for your time today. >> thank you very much. good to be here. >> do not go anywhere. when we come back, the new secret recordings of house minority leaders kevin mccarthy talking about whether donald trump should resign in the days after january the 6th. that blockbuster reporting and mccarthy's brazen lie that made it all worse, right after this. right after this -dad, what's with your toenail? 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[ding] e*trade now from morgan stanley. is one mission, life. i get to keep her. we get to have her and enjoy her. and she gets to grow up, which is the best gift imagine you are one of the most anyone could ever give. powerful politicians in america. you served in congress for 15 years. you are on course to become potentially speaker of the house, third in line to the presidency. you wake up in the morning and the new york times is claiming that you said something in private that would be politically damaging to your base. you did say, but you put out a statement calling it false. did you not stop to think that there might be tapes? that is what exactly happened to republican lawmaker kevin mccarthy. the new york times reported that mccarthy told republicans in the days after january six that he would ask from about resigning. he called the times report, false and wrong. a spokesperson said mccarthy never said he'd call trump to say he should resign. but, as we reported exclusively last night, the two journalist behind a reporting had the receipts. >> liz, you on the phone? >> yeah, i'm here. thanks kevin, i guess there's a question. when we're talking about the 25th amendment resolution -- >> yeah. >> you ask what happens if it gets there after you're gone? is there any chance are you hearing that he might resign? is there any reason to think that may have been? >> i've had a few discussions. my gut tells me no. i'm seriously thinking of having that conversation with him tonight. i haven't talked to him in a couple days. again, the only discussion i would have with him is that i think this will pass, and it would be my recommendation you should resign. >> sounds like the new york times reporting was accurate to me, kevin. but it gets better. that phone call was from january 10th, 2021. there was another called house republicans the next day. a reporter asked mccarthy what he said about trump on that call. >> in the spirit of disclosing private conversations, did you tell republicans on january 11th that president trump told you that he would agree and bear some responsibility for january six? >> i am not sure we'll call you are talking about. >> really? really? i think you probably know where i'm going with this. roll the tape. >> well let me be very clear to all of you, and i have been very clear to the president. he bears responsibility for his words and actions, no ifs, and or buts. i asked him personally today, does he hold responsibility for what happened? the sea feel bad about what happened? he told me he does have some responsibility for what happened. and he needs to acknowledge the. >> you are zero for two, kevin. of course, we know republicans like kevin mccarthy lie all-time, it is reflexive for them. just imagine all the other conversations that mccarthy lied about that we do not have on tape, but might be coming soon. david jolly served alongside kevin mccarthy as a republican congressman from 2014 2017. he is no longer affiliated with the republican party, and he joins me now. david, thank you for coming on the show. how common was this form a brazen lie among the house republican conference during your time there? >> it was brazen, but i will say that kevin mccarthy is one of the most scurrilous, power hungry, hypocritical leaders to be elevated in the republican conference. i say that as one of the members that opposed him when he tried to become speaker in 2015, and, ultimately, stopped his ascension to this because ship. kevin mccarthy got to congress knowing that he wanted to be speaker of the house. what the nation learned once again today is that kevin mccarthy lied to his leadership team, he lied to the conference, he lied to the former president, he lighted the press and he lied to the american people. the only saving grace here, many, is that the entire republican conference already knew that. they have already supported him. understand that he actually said on that private call to the entire republican conference on the 11th of january that donald trump has accepted responsibility. he told the entire conference that. but then he went out and told the world a different story. republican saw him do that, and have yet to hold kevin mccarthy accountable. they are in this bed with him, all the way. >> it is a good point. the republican conference, we are here for the first time, but they heard it live. they knew he was lying for a year. he was lying to them, how do we know what to believe, even in private? how do we know trump took responsibility? he might have just said that. we have no idea what mccarthy says is true or not. what do you make of kevin mccarthy as a leader, as a congressman? in washington, there are plenty of indications that he is not the sharpest thinker in the house. someone once called him a moron. >> there are policy rocks and then tactician's. he's a tactician. he's somebody that knows every single congressional district in the country. he knows the ins and outs. as there is all, he knows how to influence members from those districts. he came of age alongside paul ryan, the young guns around 2010, they would reshape the congress. paul ryan is gone, air kanter is gone. each of them rose to leadership. this is how mccarthy's time. when he lost his speakership in 2015, he knew that every day he would have to wake up to regain it. the only pathway he has, mehdi, is to dramatically expand the house conference, so that he has more votes than needed, so that he does not have to worry about the marjorie taylor greene's and so forth. >> talking of matt gauge, when you made these comments at a rally, we will kind of laughed. have a listen. >> give us the ability to fire nancy pelosi, take back the majority, impeach joe biden, and i will nominate donald trump for speaker of the united states house of representatives! >> we may have all laughed, but did the idea of speaker of the house donald trump become a little bit more plausible over the last 24 hours? >> it absolutely did. any member can nominate anybody. they do not to be a member of the house. matt gates nominated donald trump. donald trump will likely say he does not want the job, but, of course, let's see how he plays the narrative here. here's what i tell not gates and others, i would say to us as we evaluate mccarthy through the lens of how close he is trying to get to donald trump, i would take them at gates, you already had your donald trump and kevin mccarthy. he is somebody that will say anything he needs to to address the passion of the moment, say something different when it serves his own political interests. he is rudderless when it comes to ideological convictions are personal convictions. he's only motivating behavior is his own elevating -- he is donald trump. kevin mccarthy and damage are the same person. >> what's a charming visual image. on that no, nbc news has confirmed that mccarthy is trying to atone for his lies with trump. quote, one person got the trump said mccarthy call the for president and apologize. he said he was placating liz and he was playing her lip service, said the person, who spoke much about the call. trump is really mad, these other things on his mind. he except kevin for who he is. it's like a really trust him. what do you make of that scraping for mccarthy, predictably unpredictable? >> kevin mccarthy is the republican leader that pick out beans to send to donald trump because he knew that was his favorite color. -- cyber is, i think oh starbucks. >> starbucks, yeah. look, donald trump holds a lot of cards here. will kevin mccarthy has to do, the way the rules work, he will get had the conference behind closed doors to agree that he should be the speaker. but when he goes to the floor, he needs 218 votes. the way we stopped him in 2015, where people like me said, even if you get a majority behind closed doors, that does not mean i will give you my vote on the floor. kevin mccarthy, tonight, this not had 218 republicans to make him speaker. he needs to get to 2:40, to 50, to 60 and a republican conference. that requires donald trump's help. but as soon as kevin gets there, he does not have to worry about the donald trump caucus. that is the perfect example of how kevin mccarthy will ultimately govern. he will abandon donald trump as soon as he has the votes he needs to become speaker. >> what a lovely man. david jolly, thank you for a time tonight, i appreciate it. between kevin mccarthy getting caught in a lie about those calls and marjorie taylor greene considerable memory gap but the weight of the generous six, it was quite a showing for house republicans today. how far world their denials get them? 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[sound of helicopter blades] ugh... they found me. ♪ ♪ nice suits, you guys blend right in. the world needs you back. i'm retired greg, you know this. people have their money just sitting around doing nothing... that's bad, they shouldn't do that. they're getting crushed by inflation. well, i feel for them. they're taking financial advice from memes. [baby spits out milk] i'll get my onesies®. ♪ “baby one more time” by britney spears ♪ good to have you back, old friend. yeah, eyes on the road, benny. welcome to a new chapter in investing. [ding] e*trade now from morgan stanley. when did you first become aware that there will be large demonstrations on january six? >> i do not recall. >> who put on your counter? >> i don't recall. >> somebody on your staff, i take it? >> i have no idea. >> are you denying under oath that you made that statement? >> i am not. i am not recalling saying specifically that. >> you, yourself, have used the term 1776 to describe the events of january six, 2021. >> i do not recall, but if you say. i do not recall making that we. but that is what this piece of paper says. >> marjorie taylor greene just flat out ran away from her own record today, just like kevin mccarthy did when he was questioned about what he said about trump or to trump. two congressional republicans following the same playbook, lie, lie, lie. when you get caught, run away. here is what they may not be able to run away from. the legal fallout from everything we learn from them over the past 24 hours. jill wine-banks it is a former prosecutor. harry lippman shirt as a -- they both join me now. thank you for joining me, harry, let me start with you, what does marjorie taylor greene's hearing add to what we know about the january six investigators already have? >> look, they knew most of what she would say. it adds a kind of complete disavow of what happened. no more trying to say it was okay, the violence. she had to run, that is for starters. second, it is a serious thing. it is likely in her case that she may be skates by, but the record has been made that this kind of conduct was absolutely outside the bounds of the constitution, and and her comfort is now have to back away from it. that is a little bit. you are right with all these i don't recall six that are up. she skates away from personal liability. nevertheless, she looks to the country as somebody who is really ducking the truth. >> to be fair, she was not seen but the country is a very truthful person before this. but i take your point, harry. jill, let me ask you about this, on the video we saw today. are you as bothered as i and that it took a random courtroom in georgia brought by a case by a small activist group, where is the 16 committee? is it all a careful master plan for the 16 committee? or are they just delaying hearings? i am frustrated, i did not know about you. >> i am frustrated. i look for to the public hearings because i know the impact that could have. it made a huge difference in watergate. i also want to add to something that harry said, i agree with him, but saying i do not recall, i do not remember hundreds of times, when in fact you do recall, you do remember, it is perjury. she was under oath in saying i do not recall when she do. it is perjury, it is hard to prove, but it does not mean that it is not a crime. she should be careful of the. it is hard to prove that then to prove that she denied certain things, that there might be a tape of something she said. but it is not evade criminal responsibility. >> it is a very good point. harry, just talking about the do not recall's from marjorie taylor greene and the i don't know's, there was one exchange that was particularly egregious. have a listen. >> is it fair to say representative green that of election night in 2020 until january six just 2021, your personal opinion and wish was that congress not certify joe biden as the winner of the 2020 election? >> no, that is not accurate. >> harry, how is that not a proof of false statement, that just because we have video of her single opposite, because of what you couldn't generous exceed to overturn the election? >> it is. i agree with jill, all the i do not recalls are also -- perjury would have all kinds of procedural sign offs, etc. look, everyone in the courtroom understands that when you get up and say they do not recall, what is happening here. it is the watch word of the perjurer that does not want to be actually painted into a corner. that is what happened today. i think it will be frustrating for the legal system. look, she is someone as you say, has this it down now, face charges under perjury and say something. i do think it had the overall effect of having her to back away from what she has so pointedly championed all these months, which is the notion of the patriots that we're fighting back. >> joe, there was also this bit of logic that was startling. have a listen. >> under the constitution, prior to january 3rd, she did not having done it. it is preposterous. she revered the united states constitution. >> jill, you see the judge even snapped up when he heard that, before the lawyer caught himself and backtracked. you have an idea that you can call for an insurrection as long as you want, you have not taken a congressional osha is bizarre and dangerous. >> it is, definitely. his argument, the lawyer for her, and making his arguments, he made so many absurd arguments. he argued that a statue overrode the constitution, and that she could not be punished for this, it was not a crime under the constitution because and 1872 amnesty act. he made a lot of first amendment arguments, when everyone knows the president has a line. you get free speech, but you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater. you cannot yell take violent action to a riled up crowd. i think there were a lot of things that the judge needs to take into account. >> harry, we are out of time. one quick last question, and pour one. in his phone call, mccarthy said that trump took responsibility. trump said today that he denied responsibility. we cannot trust other them. what's this mean about illegal culpability for the insurrection? >> that is a really good point. it could matter, but what's mccarthy could say it could matter. these are not just lies, normal politics as usual, this is about the most serious threat to democracy that we have had in 150 years. but they would put ambition over that is very troubling. >> well said. jill wine-banks harry litman, thank you for your analysis. coming up, those chief political points that ron desantis scored by picking a fight with disney but had a higher price tag than he expected. with florida voters will think of putting that billion dollar mistake, still to come. ake, still to come we hit the bike trails every weekend shinges doesn't care. i grow all my own vegetables shingles doesn't care. we've still got the best moves you've ever seen good for you, but shingles doesn't care. because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection. but, no matter how healthy you feel, your immune system declines as you age increasing your risk for getting shingles. so, what can protect you? 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but sending ballots are based on a voter roll, registration -- anytime you move, he did not injure drivers license, but he did not call up and say -- >> it is widespread voter fraud though. there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. >> there is no evidence that there is not either. that is the definition of fraud. >> donald trump's former chief of staff has been very concerned about voter fraud for years now. mark meadows was already talking about it in the months leading up to the 2020 election. as you just heard, he continued after november the 3rd, parroting trump's big lie that biden's win was fraudulent. he pressured the department of justice to investigate the false claims of fraud. after he left the white house, he joined the organization the conservative partnership institute, which they run an election integrity network, dedicated to securing a leak out of every american's vote. he was the keynote speaker at their election integrity summit earlier this year. in his speech, he made a very clear. he hates election fraud. >> it is more important that we continue to fight the fight on election integrity regardless of who the candidate is. it's very important that it becomes easy to vote but hard to cheat. >> but as it turns out, it is quite easy to cheat if you are mark meadows, a man bereft of any election integrity himself. we now learned that until last week, he was simultaneously registered to vote in three different states, north carolina, virginia and south carolina. the overlap lasted about three weeks, and meadows is still rejected in both virginia and south carolina. last month, the new yorker reported that meadows registered to vote in north carolina a couple months before the 2020 general lexington, listening there addressed ridiculously and laughably of this mobile home in the appalachian mountains. they never lived at the property. he requested enough the ballot to be sent to his town house and alexander, virginia. north carolina officials have now removed him from their roles and investigate a meadows for potential voter fraud. they noted that he voted in virginia in 2021, registered at his alexander address, where he actually lived. just weeks after that report came out, meadows registered to vote in his third state, south carolina, where he purchased a 1.3 million dollar waterfront home last summer. it is an improvement in that trailer that he's reportedly living in north carolina. we found the voter fraud, it is rich guy voter fraud by mark meadows, voter fraud expert. as i sit before, and i will say again, republicans the calls are coming from inside the house. house. migraine attacks? 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[ding] e*trade now from morgan stanley. re-entering data that employees could enter themselves? that's why i get up in the morning! i have a secret method for remembering all my hr passwords. my boss doesn't remember approving my time off. let's just... find that email. the old way of doing business slows everyone down. with paycom, employees enter and manage their own hr data in one easy-to-use software. visit paycom.com for a free demo. >> your corporation based in burbank, california. and you are going to marshal your economic mind to attack the parents of my state? we view that as a provocation. and we are going to fight back against that. >> today, florida governor ron desantis launched the latest salvo in his well-documented war against the wall dismay corporation, signing a bill that dissolves their special status, the status had been placed for 55 years and allowed disney to self govern, providing their own power, and utilities to their resort in florida. and the governor just dissolved that status, and retaliation against disney's opposition to his don't say gay bill, and the company suspension of political donations. now, desantis claims he is trying to stop the company quote, taking over the state, whatever that means. but here is what he is not telling you. disney is going to just be just fine and all of this. in fact, the hundred and $63 million they currently have to raise in taxes for their special status? that now goes away, according to a local tax collector. and the taxpayers of florida will have to pick up the tab instead. that is the part desantis and his republican cronies are not telling you about. that is the part that they are lying about. mark caputo is a national reporter for nbc news digital. thank you for coming on. that is 163 million, it is just for starters by some estimate taking on this means bond that's, the real cost to the taxpayers could amount to one billion dollars. does that hurt desantis's chances for reelection? massive tax increases don't tend to go well with voters, no matter how much cultural revenue you throw at them. >> two things, one voters would have to believe, it too it would have to happen. i am not sure if either is going to happen. it has been about a year 13 months of time to decide whether they are really with this. while it is true, the district we are talking about goes away, there is 100 and $63 million in there. but the reality is, disney -- doesn't have just liabilities, it also has assets, it has income producing capabilities. so, when lawmakers relate to law, if they do, i think that is a big, if they would find a way to call back on that money. in the end, it would probably be a, wash it would be my best guess, but i am just guessing. however, to be very clear and to disco, i never guessed disney would be in the situation for the first place. it is a lot of work for what might have been washed, or might be some sort of a bigger problem. it is going to be a lot of time spent, and a lot of time figuring out. in the end, i am not sure what kind of real financial payoff the states would get. >> on that note, i want to play to you what desantis himself said today about disney and taxes. have a listen. >> people say you have services, utilities, we will take care of, that don't worry, we have everything thought out, don't let anyone tell you that somehow disney is going to get a tax cut out of this, they are going to pay more taxes as a result of this. >> does that pass the smell test to you? how much of this whole fight is just performative on both sides, even? >> the idea that suddenly ron desantis is going yay! we will tax a corporation! it is like wow, if you are talking to rhonda santas of last month, he would be pretty shocked. that said, they have gotten a number of tax cuts along the years, half a billion dollars worth of tax cuts of this year's budget, or the budget they just approved. so, the legislator does like to cut taxes. i really have never heard a republican bragging like yes, we will tax this big employer in our state. no way. >> politics are changing fast. turning now to donald trump. you just confirmed today that house republican leader kevin mccarthy phoned trump to apologize for his leaked audio, what did you hear about that call? >> well i just heard that it was first reported by, i guess the new york times, from the sound clip, but kevin mccarthy called in and said basically i am sorry this happened, and then tried to assuage president trump like i was just playing along, i was giving lip service to liz cheney, this was not really me from what we understand from some people who have spoken to trump. trump just nodded along, but at the same time the word i heard was steak, it was used by a fellow republican, and that is the way in which donald trump views. him but we did not get to confirm that with donald trump. so i can't say that for certain. >> just this hour, the wall street journal interviewed trump, and he said this about mccarthy. quote, he made a call, i heard the call, i didn't like the call, said mr. trump. but almost immediately as you, know he came here and we took a picture right there, you know the support was very strong mr. trump said, pointing to it in the room where mccarthy had taken a picture of the former president. he also denied taking any responsibility for 16 and that call. i have to ask you on behalf of a lot of viewers, we look at the work that you and a lot of political correspondents, do what you do in a situation like this? you have donald trump say something, kevin mccarthy say something, they both have a long history of lying. how do you confirm anything? >> i think in this case, trump at least regards the call of what we have heard is more consistent. so i am more likely to believe the first that mccarthy kind of came up to him and was like i am sorry boss, i hope it never happens again. trump being like, i guess. >> i don't envy political reporters after passed different statements with people from no credibility. i appreciate your reporting mark, thank you. >> thank you. >> that is all in on this friday night. don't forget to tune in this sunday night as congresswoman ayanna pressley joins me on the ayanna pressley show. the rachel maddow show starts with ali velshi right now. good evening ali, before i hand over the show to you my friend, i have to say, what you did in hungary, poland, ukraine, over the past few weeks was a master class of journalism. i want to thank you on behalf of a lot of us. thank you and thanks for all the opportunity you gave me to report from there into your show. i'm looking for to see you on sunday. you have yourself as much of a good weekend as you can get. thank you to you at home for joining us this hour. i want to tell you the story of one american, like many americans, retired at the age of 65. he announced at the end of september 2015, by the end of the following month, he was gone. to say he took the retirement like a fish takes the water would be an understatement of historic proportions. >> this morning, i am formed my colleagues that i would resign from the speakership and resigned from congress