this is the northeastern city of kharkiv being bombarded by russian missiles. killed 5 people and injured 13 civilians. the southern city of mariupol has been levelled by the campaign. the devastation comes as karl sat down with vladimir putin this week, the first european leader to do so since the war began. here's the chancellor today earlier on nbc. >> i think he's in his stone wall. you know, he thinks the war is necessary for security guarantees for the russian federation. he doesn't trust the international community. he blames ukrainians to -- for genocide in the donbas region. so, well, he is now in his world, but i think he knows what is going on now in ukraine. >> so the chancellor believes he thinks vladimir putin thinks he's winning the war, that he's still living in the same alternate reality that led him thinking that invading ukraine was actually a good idea. so to put it in another way for you, putin's own human being ris and isolation led him to badly judge ukraine. and putin continues to misjudge the situation day after day, week after week. you had finland stand up to russian steps and signalled they're taking steps to join nato. of course, as the saying goes, when a rat is backed into a corner, he lashes out. so we saw vladimir arrested in moscow this week, one day after he spoke to msnbc about the importance of standing his ground. >> there are millions of people in russia. i think it would be demoralizing for us in the opposition movement would all just leave the country. russia is my country. russia is my home. and this is where i have to be. >> and one of the biggest threats to putin's hold on power is aleksi navalny. for the last year he has been held in a penal colony outside of moscow after surviving an attempt on his life in 2020. he was jailed on fraud charges that were trumped up by putin himself and sentenced to an additional nine years in prison on new charges that were widely seen as politically motivated. earlier today i spoke to the executive director of aleksi navalny's anticorruption foundation. >> thank you for joining us. i greatly appreciate your time. i would like to speak with your big picture assessment of vladimir putin's mounting setbacks and diplomatic blunders. because this week alone, you had the sweden and finish governments ignore his warnings and actually begin moving closer towards nato membership. you had the flag ship of the russian navy in the black sea sunk. does vladimir putin realize that he has misjudged the situation in ukraine, do you think? >> well, i think it is important to understand whether mr. putin is a sane person at this point. angela merkel, when she met him a few years ago, she said that this is a person not in touch with reality. he is out of this world. and some people say that putin has gone mentally insane and some are saying that just he's fed incorrect information. but i think it's a fact that he's not in touch with reality. and the recent setbacks that you listed, of course they irritate him very much, and we see by the that have been happening in the top echelon of russian power in the last weeks. >> i know that you are living in london, but your friend and colleague aleksi navalny has been jailed in russia since last year. late last year a russian court sentenced him to an additional nine years on a charge of embezzling donations from his supporters. i want to give you a chance to respond to those chargers. and can you give us an update on mr. navalny, how he is doing, what he is aware of what is happening inside of ukraine and russia at the moment? >> he was arrested in january 2021. the charges were that he was violating the terms of his suspended sentence, so he was not checking in every two weeks at the local police station because he was undergoing treatment in germany and recuperation. the latest charges that got him nine-year prison verdict a month ago, they were that he stole money from the foundation that he founded that became the most prominent russian political non-profit. so you can see that these allegations are politically motivated, and he over years became the most prominent putin's critic, and that's why putin wants to keep him in jail. we keep in touch with him through a lawyer that visits him daily for about an hour, and he handwrites his notes to our team, to his family, and he reads whatever message and materials was sent to him. >> you have said that it's unlikely aleksi navalny will ever be released as long as vladimir putin remains in power. you are talking about how much of a threat he has become to vladimir putin. do you feel that he is still a threat to vladimir putin from prison? why does vladimir putin fear him so much? >> well, i think in hindsight now, we understand that putin made a decision to make a full-scale invasion of ukraine some time ago. i think poisoning up navalny and all the stuff 2020 was preparation for that because navalny has millions of supporters in russia, he is -- has emerged as the most prominent opposition politician. he has a capable and well if he thinksing political organization. so it is natural that putin would like to get him behind bars. >> is it possible to even have an opposition, a credible opposition, in russia today? is there any semblance of a credible opposition in russia today? >> opposition in terms of a political party or political movement? no, i don't think that's possible. the last independent media outlets have been closed. people get detained even from going to the streets with posters that just say "no war," but all the letters are replaced with asterisks or with just a -- stories of war and peace, and people get penalties for that. so it's not possible to have, you know, no formal opposition now. but the dissent, the dissolutionment of russian people is growing, and it will result in a political crisis and a wave of mass protests sooner or later. >> you said that last year before russia invaded ukraine that sanctions against russia were not working because the west was not targeting the people with the money, saying, quote, it is not enough to sanction the operatives who just follow orders. we're obviously in a very different situation now. but do you believe that the sanctions the west have improved are, a, targeting the right people and, b, enough? >> we have been advocating for personal sanctions against people in corruption and human rights abuse for years. and we -- our words are falling upon deaf ears. over the last month and a half, we have seen an avalanche of sanctions, hundreds of people are sanctioned in the u.s., u.k. and eu. again, you cannot really answer the question of whether it is enough. sanctions is a blunt instrument. it is not a silver bullet that if you apply it correctly, if you have some ideal list of people to sanction, then the war will stop and putin will resign. sanctions do create a motivation for people who know how the system works, who have been beneficials of this regime to do something to change this regime, to -- to change this totalitarian structure and to bring an end to this atrocious war. so it's not a short-term solution but, rather, a medium-term measure. it is one of the instruments that has to be employed. >> i want to ask you -- yeah. i want to ask you just about you personally. do you at all worry that you as well could be targeted by putin's regime, even though you are in london? we have seen the russian government go after other russian figures abroad. do you have concerns about your own safety and well-being? >> well, it's no secret that russian security services can conduct operations throughout the world, and we see that in the u.k., in germany, in other countries. at the same time, you cannot really live your life if you constantly think about it. so it takes some reasonable cautions, but other than that i tend not to think about those dangers. >> sir, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your insights with us. i greatly appreciate your time. >> thank you. still ahead, democrats are considering whether to change how it chooses presidential nominees. but first richard lui is here with the headlines. >> good evening to you. police are investigating a mass shooting that happened overnight in south carolina. shots were fired inside a club in hampton county and left at least 9 people injured. this comes just a day after a another mass shooting in the same state. police arrested 22-year-old jawanm. price in connection with that shooting inside a busy mall that left 14 people injured. price was one of the people initially detained by law enforcement. and covid cases are on the rise again in most states after a two-month decline. the surge is driven by the ba.2 sub variant. hospitalizations remain at record lows. more ayman with ayman mohyeldin after this. h ayman mohyeldin after this money with farmers? 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here to answer that question is my elite panel. also an msnbc political analyst and a republican strategist. and former national deputy director of african american outreach for president obama. it is great to have all three of you with us. how could a more representative primary calendar actually change democratic presidential politics? >> well, it's really important because the primary is the opportunity for the electorate to get to know all the candidates, to test the messaging, to test their policy platform. it is an opportunity to forecast for the rest of the nation who is going to be the primary selection, who is going to be the pick. so you want to have those candidates have an opportunity to meet with and to get to know communities that are more reflective of the democratic party. i have long been a proponent of south carolina. but over 50% of the electorate in south carolina is african american. nevada had an incredible opportunity, arizona as well with a growing electorate that is latino in the democratic party. the latino electorate is growing all across the country. we want to ensure those primary voters have an opportunity to meet the candidates and forecast for other communities like them across the country where we stand as a party. >> yeah. and elise, i think of the 2020 race and, you know, the primary calendar. you know, this actually creates a narrative for these candidates that often influences the electorate and what comes after each vote. i think immediately of what happened in south carolina, how that changed for -- changed everything for joe biden. what if south carolina would have been first? would there ever have been a doubt about joe biden clinching the nomination? will there be better narratives if another state goes first for bernie sanders or pete buttigieg, actually looking back in 2020. >> exactly. how different would the democratic primary have been if south carolina had that early position? tonight i was talking to a dnc insider who said it is near certainty that one of the first states will represent the diversity of the democratic electorate. and this insider pointed to georgia as a possible new option for the early slate and also south carolina is also going to be in there, especially after how decisive it was the last round. and no one can remember the absolute boondoggle of what went down at the ie yeah caucuses last go around in saying, wow, let's just repeat that all over again. that makes a lot of sense. so i'm really glad that the dnc rules committee is looking at this. >> yeah, susan. let me switch gears for a moment and talk about the midterms. mitch mcconnell said he has high hopes about his party's prospects but fears, quote, unacceptable candidates coming out of primaries. is that a real concern, like the todd at kins and christine o'donnells of a decade ago? i'm thinking of what's taking place in ohio, some of the candidates in ohio, j.d. vance in ohio, just a list of characters that it is hard for me the gop wants to associate with in its party. >> yeah, herschel walker in georgia. >> herschel walker, yeah, absolutely. >> i think what mcconnell was also trying to channel there is saying if you get the most trumpest candidate out of a primary, you're probably going to lose because he remembers what happened in georgia very well and donald trump's influence and that if not were donald trump he probably would have been majority leader in 2020. so he knows how important it is to choose candidates wisely. the republicans are, in fact, the only people who can get in the way of republicans actually winning back the senate. i think the house is pretty much set. but there are some doossys out there in some of these congressional seats. and i have long said that the best chance that democrats have is to hope that republicans put up, you know, the most whacky whack doogle, trumpest candidates they can. >> i was going to say doossy is one way of describing it. i could think of a couple other words not suitable for television, even though it is late night. can democratic candidates take advantage of the crazies that might come out of republican candidates when kitchen table issues are dominating the conversation? what do democrats need to do to exploit these candidates who are on the other side of crazy? >> well, i think first and foremost, they are already showing their crazy. susan did a great job mentioning horschel walker. he has wrapped himself up in lies about his own standing and his own financing and that's becoming exposed. you can tell she's slow on the updates because he's only raised something like $5 million in the first three months of 2022, and that's compared to we have raphael warnock as a democratic front runner who has raised $13 million in the first three months. so money talks. we know that he's already lagging. but as a general matter, a blanket matter across the board, as the crazies come out, i know that's a technical term, the crazies, as the crazies come out with their culture war arguments, it is important that the democrats push back. there is no just letting -- letting the zingers come out and just saying i don't stand for that, saying i don't stand for defunding the police or just letting a republican say that democrats stand for defunding the police or another head herring. it is time for the democrats to say what they do stand for and go head to head about issues that are divisive. the republicans are letting those arguments just hang out there, and we can't do that. it will divide our state. >> elise, i want to ask you about the ohio senate race for a moment because this week donald trump endorsed j.d. vance in that senate primary. not only did vance once actually compare trumpism to opoid addiction, but josh mendell basically did everything to court trump's affection. i mean, he was trying to appeal to trump in every sense of the word. he was repeating qanon conspiracy theories or talking points. how embarrassing is it for mendell, for a die that kissed up to trump so much not getting trump's endorsement here? >> he's josh mendell, so he does a lot of stuff on the election cycle on a daily basis that are embarrassing. it is hilarious that j.d. vance is scoring elites. it's really hilarious. peter thiel who has a lot of money to donate, should he choose to run in 2024, tapped j.d. vance. at the end of the day, that's what got him the coveted trump endorsement and these primaries, pennsylvania first and then ohio and pennsylvania both coming up in early may are really the test in these really tight gop races. is it going to matter? does the trump effect still matter in the primaries? because it is not that any of these candidates in the primaries are trying to run away from donald trump. they aren't trying to do that at all. the national party might, mitch mcconnell might be trying to slowly move away and in whatever way he does that. but the candidates on the ground are as trumpy as ever and they're fighting for it. i'm watching to see if dr. oz is pushed over in pennsylvania. and let's see if j.d. vance overtakes everyone in that crowded ohio field, too. >> yeah. and there are also a handful of other house races as well where trump has endorsed candidates on the other side of crazy. panel, please stick around. we have a lot more to discuss. republican governor ron desantis is drawing democrats out of the equation in florida. panera chefs have crafted a masterpiece... succulent, seared chicken... a secret aioli... clean ingredients... in a buttery brioche roll. made fresh, to leave you... speechless. panera's new chef's chicken sandwiches. $1 delivery fee on our app. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ we believe there's an innovator in all of us. ♪ ♪ that's why we build technology that makes it possible for every business... and every person... to come to the table and do more incredible things. hi. we're zerowater. and we believe everyone deserves and every person... the purest tasting water. that's why we strive for zero. you see, to some it means nothing. but to us, it means everything. here, take a look. this meter showing triple zeros means our five-stage filter did its job, and that virtually all dissolved solids or tds have been removed. and all that's left is the purest tasting water. let's compare. a two-stage brita filter stops here. but our five-stage filter doesn't quit. zerowater. we strive for zero. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ and, we're back! it's time to see which chew provides the longest-lasting flea and tick protection. bravecto's the big winner. 12 weeks of powerful protection, nearly 3 times longer than any other chew. bravo, bravecto! bravo! this week the north carolina state board of elections announced it removed mark meadows from their voter roles, quote, after documentation indicating he lived in virginia and last voted in the 2021 election there. according to a report by the new yorker last month, voter actually filed his voter registration in september of 2020, listing his residential address as a mobile home in scaling mountain, north carolina. neither the home, nor the property with that address has belonged to him and he has never lived there. that leaves open the question of whether mark meadows misrepresented his domicile in 2020, a federal crime punishable by up to five years in prison and whether he committed voter fraud in the 2020 election. let's bring our sunday night panel. susan, i want to start with you. what does it say about the gop that mark meadows decries nonexistent voter fraud and then goes on to potentially commit voter fraud himself? >> it's disgraceful. it's an embarrassment. i do wonder if he is guilty of that and then you add the pending referral to doj about refusing to appear before congress and ignoring the subpoena. that's another criminal charge. it seems like mark meadows is just kind of racking them up right now. but most of all, it shows that there is no way that mark meadows or the donald trump administration felt the rules applied to them. and that's what -- that is the clear intent here. >> there are two florida men in the villages. i believe one who voted for trump or who was a trump supporter. he actually pleaded guilty this week to voting twice in the 2020 election. and, again, it is absolute crickets from the republicans who are always accusing democrats of voter fraud. but i am not seeing any republicans come out and denouncing this example of voter fraud that is reportedly in favor of donald trump. >> that's right. because the republicans have been in support both at the federal and at the state legislative level in support of legislation and litigation claiming that voter fraud exists and largely exists on the democratic side, right? so the center recently came out with a really stark report that explains the connection between these claims of voter fraud that did not exist on largely the democratic side, right, saying that voter fraud did not exist. but we saw a whole raft of litigation coming out of the election in 2020 based on those -- those failed voter fraud claims. and then all of those litigation -- all that litigation and all those claims were codified into legislation. so that's why we're seeing voter suppression proliferate across the country. so we have mark meadows and his potential voter fraud. we have the two gentlemen down in florida with their voter fraud. but voter fraud is not a ram ped issue. yet, it is the basis by which all these legislatures are codifying policy that are going to make it difficult and onerous for the average voter to cast a ballot and particularly voters of color. >> at least the brennan center found that the false fraud claims that the trump campaign made in 2020 and especially during the lawsuits, they didn't die with the litigation but rather became the foundations that propelled new state legislations in 2021 to restrict the vote and to increase partisan control over elections without any evidence. so regardless of what their intention was, they have succeeded in restricting voting capabilities, if you will, because of the state legislations that were passed. what is your reaction to that significant development? >> the bottom line is republicans want to not make it easier for people who are going to vote against their interests, vote against their candidates to vote. and so that's what you are seeing with all of this activism on the gop side. if you talk to what i categorize as a soft trump supporter, someone who is probably more loyal to the gop than to donald trump himself about what happened in 2020 and do you think the election was stolen, you might not hear the qanon, that kind of crazy theory. you will hear, you know, it was just too easy for people to vote because of the pandemic, and that's why joe biden won. so this is what across the country you see out. republicans have swept into action and they are making all of these changes that will probably make it a lot harder for democrats to get out the vote that they need to get out. >> florida republicans have actually advocated their responsibility to draw the state's congressional map, handing it over to ron desantis who wants to carve up a majority of black districts even more. what do you make of that? what's your reaction? >> well, certainly, as you mentioned, they're advocating their responsibility. the responsibility to draw those lines for redirecting lies squarely with the state legislature. but this is one more step in ron desantis' authoritarian regime over florida, right? so this is just one more thing that he is doing in order to secure his own power and the power of his party. but i think it's also important to note that the reason why he is able to make these changes without federal intervention and early level is because in 2013 the supreme court struck down or gutted significant provisions of the voting rights act that would have required this admission of this redirecting or this redirecting plan to the department of justice. now we're in a place where in large part he is going -- desantis is saying that he's going to redirect to crack majority african american district, the fifth district in florida, and we're going to see that i'm assuming that there will be litigation immediately following this because there is no way that he could do this withoutdiluting the african american vote, ensuring african-americans cannot elect their candidate of choice. at his core, his plan is to dilute the african american vote in favor of greater republican strength in his state, and i'm certain that there will be legal challenges to follow. >> yeah, i was going to say. in 2018 he only 14% of the black vote. it now appears to be the case that if he can't get their vote, he definitely wants to try and dilute. let's go to ohio for a second. saying the commission failed to comply with the state's new antigerrymandering rules. again, is this a case of republicans doing everything they can to get an advantage at the polls here? why are they not simply realizing after the fourth time of being shut down by a, you know, supreme court that they would learn their lesson and actually put up a fair legislative map? >> honestly, i tried to look at the districts in the ohio maps and understand. and it is just beyond me. it really -- like any coherent explanation for what they're trying to do. and of course they are going to keep going at it because republicans are playing for keeps. they want to win and they will be ruthless about it. republicans have to think about how they can match that level of ruthlessness on their side if they are going to keep votes from not being suppressed in the entire country, frankly, when you look at all of the actions that are happening in so many districts and so many states and counties around the country. so this is a full-on fight. >> susan, when you look at the way the maps have been gerrymandered in different areas, whether it will be florida or ohio, there was an initial assessment that it wasn't going to look add baz for democrats who also had states they engaged in map redrawings of their own in their favor. where do you think ultimately the issue of gerrymandering will be when the midterms are done? what role do you think the issue of gerrymandering will have as an impact on the 2022 midterms? >> well, one of those states, by the way, i think you were referring to was new york where the democrats created a district that has never been seen before to help add ler and hurt a republican. so the democrats in several states have also played that. but to answer your question, i think it goes to the courts. you will see lines set and still challenged after the midterm election. so you may have districts looking a little different. it's happening in a few states over the last decade or so. the lines get redrawn and, you know, we start anew at some places or sometimes they're modified. but at the end of the day, both sides really do try and get the best they can for their states. >> all right. thank you so much for joining us tonight. greatly appreciate it, all of your insights. still ahead, republicans want to celebrate black history one day and then ban schools from even talking about it the very next. i'll explain after the break. what happens when performance... meets power? 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[♪♪] did you know you can address one of the root causes of aging by targeting all the cells in your body? try tru niagen. life as we know it cannot exist without nad. as we age, nad can decrease by as much as 50%. tru niagen is proven to increase nad, to support heart and muscle health, and energy production that starts in your cells. address one of the root causes of aging with tru niagen, researched by the world's top scientific institutions. covid-19 moves fast, and now you can too by asking your healthcare provider if an oral treatment is right for you. oral treatments can be taken at home and must be taken within 5 days from when symptoms first appear. if you have symptoms of covid-19, even if they're mild don't wait, get tested quickly. if you test positive and are at high risk for severe disease, act fast ask if an oral treatment is right for you. covid-19 moves fast and now you can too. here's a bright spot in ukraine that i want to tell you about as we have been looking at so many images of destruction and carnage over the last nearl instillation by j.r. in lviv. the young girl has since become a symbol of ukrainian resiliency and earlier, i spoke with j.r. about this tribute to the children of ukraine. he's the subject of the film's documentary "paper and glue" on msnpc at 10:0 0 p.m. eastern. thank you for joining us. you made a 148-foot instillation happen in the middle of a massive war. walk me through how you pulled this off. >> well, you know, first of all, i was in paris, which so is my hometown and you can drive from there, which is kind of crazy to think it's so close you can take your car and go there. that's how it came together at first and then i've been in touch with some people there and they kept telling me, j.r., what could you do? i was like i don't know what to do, actually. i asked one guy at the border. see a little girl crossing the border. can you send me a photo and get her mom's information. he did. i got that photo of valaria and decided to print it 150 feet long and roll it into a top material and then i went there with my team and we arrive at the border in poland and in the forest by the border, we started putting rivets and crossed the border walking and got in contact with people there, young people who were following me on instagram and put their car and that's how we drove to lviv, the largest main city in the west side of ukraine. >> you touched on this story of valiria for a moment. she's the subject of this piece. she's become a symbol of ukrainian resilience throughout this war. tell me more about why you chose her to use in your art. what was the reaction from the family when you approached them for permission to use her in this art? >> well, you know, first of all, what is incredible is that photo, this photograph i took at the border is actually a ukrainian french film maker and he just photographed it very quickly, very simply. she was just playing. even ukraine when they have a moment, all they want to do is just play. so she was just playing so it's not like there was any photo shoots organized or anything like that so when he went and told the mom, she was like oh, sure but how you want to use it? let me put you in touch with j.r. and explain it's not just a simple upization, we want to bring this photo into a gigantic size so "time magazine" called her and interviewed her and so she realized what this image could become and it's in full, you know, knowledge of that that she said yes, please, i'd love for valiria to represent the kids trapped within this conflict so her father and brother are still in ukraine and have to stay as they are older men. >> yeah, as i mentioned, she's become a symbol of the rezil yen of the ukrainian people and certainly of children worldwide suffering in war. what do you hope people take away from this image and this particular piece of art that you did? >> you know, i did it in the middle of ukraine and left ukraine and came back the following week and i spoke with the people there, the people i met there and i said how can i help more? how can i do more? and they said well, you know, one thing that really help us is that you keep this alive, you keep us alive in your media so keep creating projects around you and i thought, oh, wait, i still have the big top with me. let's open it in big city around the world. and we started doing it in europe the last couple days and weeks and it's going to be presented and probably i'll do it in lots of other cities. >> absolutely incredible. i got to ask you, are you working on anything else in ukraine at the moment? >> yes. so when i went there, the first time when i came back, i know that there was a big need for any kind of help, you know, any food, any stuff that people need that they couldn't get access anymore in the country and so i told everyone on social media, my instagram, guys, i'll make an nft that i'll sell to people and 100% of the proceed will go directly on the ground. so now every single week in paris we organize trucks filled with food and goods that are traveling straight to ukraine. so we already send three trucks in the last three weeks and keep going every week to help with groups that we have localized in places there and that the border, the police border. >> j.r., i got a note. your documentary you and i spoke when it premiered on this network. it's set to re-air in a couple minutes. i've got to ask you quickly, how has that documentary been received since it first premiered? >> the documentary is incredible. i was just in the california where the inmates are featured in the dark and every one of them seen it aired in the prison so hearing how it impacted them to know that this project also happened around the world and not only in their prison and same people when i travel that have seen it, it's incredible. like for the first time people have the ability to travel with me and understand what i do. >> j.r. always good to see you my friend. keep all the brilliant work and shed light with your art. greatly appreciate your time. good to see you. j.r. >> thank you, ayman, see you soon. thank you for making time for us this evening. catch "ayman" saturdays at 8:00, sundays at 9:00 and friday on peacock and follow us on twitter and tiktok @ayman @msnbc. until we meet again, have a good night. until we meet again, have a good night. only two things are forever: love and liberty mutual customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. if anyone objects to this marriage... 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