fronts with president biden saying they are in nonstop talks to stop all-out war in europe saying the u.s. is ready no matter what happens between russia and ukraine. the new comments from the president following a faceoff at the united nations. with russia building up more troops and sending a critical supply to the front lines. the pentagon giving an update right now. also, the senate is back in session. it's for the first time since justice bricier announced his retirement. we're going to be learning more about which two senators will be meeting with president biden tomorrow as our team reports on the list of contend rs for that spot. plus a trump rally this weekend, and what else we heard from the former president ha that is some folks worried. i'm hallie jackson in washington with you on this monday afternoon. the team is here with us too. and here are some of the new developments just coming into us this afternoon. you have the white house confirming russia is surging 5,000 more troops to belarus. the pentagon confirming it's also worried about more naval activity from russia. a senior u.s. defense official says russia has begun moving in supplies of blood to troops along the ukraine border. and at the u.n., a were of words between the u.s. and russian ambassadors ahead of a phone call between tony blinken and his counterpart. russia will face severe consequences if it attacks ukraine. similar to what we heard from before. all of it leading up to a briefing thursday for senator who is are considering a vote on the mother of all sanctions against vladimir putin. josh, we just heard from the president, from the pentagon, from the state department in the past hour. >> that's right, we're seeing a flurry of activity and communication between these nato members, including the u.s. and both russia and ukraine with the kritish prime minister expected to visit kyiv. as you mentioned, planning to speak with the russian foreign minister. they had a chance to speak with vladimir putin, the russian leader today. the focus from the u.s. has been publicly on this diplomatic possibility because of the concerns they have about playing into president putin's hands with some of the concerns that are very out front right now about the prospect of an imminent encouragement. listen to what president biden had to say a little while ago at the white house. >> we continue to urge diplomacy as the best way forward, but with russia's continuing its build up of forces around ukraine, we are ready no matter what happens. >> so you hear the white house and president biden trying to walk this fine line because behind the scenes as we have reported, they are making very clear to the ukrainian counterparts what could happen and what they need to be ready for. we also saw at the u.n. security council this morning what has become a russian strategy here, which is to take the fact that the u.s. is talking about war in these kind of eminent, impending terms to make it seem like the u.s. is almost the ones trying to will this into exist tense. we heard the russian ambassador at the security council saying that the way the u.s. is talking about our actions as if they want us to invade ukraine. that's the opposite of the truth. the u.s. is trying to deter russia from taking an action, but it speaks to the way the u.s. is very concerned that the key element of the russian playbook here is misdirection. to make it look like the u.s., the west and ukraine are the aggressors instead of ukraine. so they are trying to avoid playing into russia's hands, even as they make very clear what the u.s. hopes the consequences will be for russia if president putin does invade. >> let me some of that back and forth between those ambassador ambassadors a at the u.n. today. watch. >> the discussions about a threat of war is provocative in and of itself. you are almost calling for this. >> actions on the border of ukraine are not responsible. the threats of aggression on the border of ukraine, yes, on its border s provocative. >> so that's what josh referenced as far as the back and forth we have heard. tell me what you're hearing on the ground in kiev there. >> with respect to that reporting that nbc has confirmed from a senior defense official that russia has begun to move blood supplies to the border of ukraine, possible indication that russia may be in the final stages of preparing a military option. using a scathing statement they posted on facebook. the defense minister saying this it information is not true, such news is an element of information and psychological warfare. the purpose of such information is to spread panic and fear in our society. and this is an illustration of how ukraine and the united states have been at odds with not only the intelligence assessment, but also some of the rhetoric used to characterize the situation. although, we did hear from the ukrainian ambassador following today's u.n. security council meeting acknowledge that he does believe that an invasion is eminent and he carefully defined the word to mean, approaching hanging over and only then unavoidable. that's important because there's no ukrainian equivalent for the word. the closest is inevitable. so what officials in washington came out and were proclaiming that a vugs invasion was imminent, many tishls were saying that an invasion was inevitable, which is not what washington officials were saying. but it the created uncertainty and panic, some panic here in kyiv, many questioning what was going on there in washington. and really panic is being seen as another threat here in ukraine. >> live for us there in kooef, thank youyiv, thank you. >> they are hoping an invasion would not be inevident pbl senators are getting a briefing on thursday. they are working on a sanctions bill. >> that's right. senators are currently discussing two buckets of sanctions that would apply here. one set of immediate sanctions because some senators believe russia has already taken provocative actions that deserve to be punished. those could be against individuals who conducted cyber attacks who participated in the troop buildup. and a much more aggressive set of sanctions this would be triggered if russia invades. if russia moves troops across the border. that's being called the mother of all sanctions. one source compared it to the crippling sanctions on iran that brought them to the table for the jcpoa, the nuclear deal in the obama administration. senators believe they are close to a deal. let's play with senator murphy told andrea mitchell earlier. >> i think we are very close to an agreement. we are considering some sanctions that might take effect immediately because, to tell you the truth, russia has already taken provideocassettetive action that caused damage to the economy. if they are divided and congress may in the pass in addition, it would have a deterrent value. but the biden administration and allies are less keen on that. if so on thursday, that's when senators are going to be asking questions about the official u.s. intel's read on russia, the chairman said they are on the 1 yard line. that briefing on thursday could be where they finally get this done. lastly, there's a wild card here, which is that some influential right wing commentators have been taking an openly russia stance that members of congress are hearing about from their constituents in trump country. some democrats fear that that could put pressure on republican members from the right and possibly complicate this. it doesn't lock like it's happening now, but it's out there as this debate it continues. >> i know you'll be watching that. thank you. coming up, we're going to be watching for mutt developments on the hill around something else. the supreme court nomination process. the floor just opening now. what we just learned about a meeting added to president biden's calendar. and spotify on damage control. and how joe rogan is reacting to all this backlash. also just why is a pennsylvania democratic party refusing to endorse in a senate primary one of the most closely watched in the country? we'll tell you what sources are saying, later in the show. you you saying, later in the show.e hig. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. what happens when we welcome nge? we can make emergency medicine possible at 40,000 feet. instead of burning our past for power, we can harness the energy of the tiny electron. we can create new ways to connect. rethinking how we communicate to be more inclusive than ever. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change. faster. vmware. welcome change. (vo) when you are shopping for a new vehicle, how do you know which brand you can trust? with subaru, you get kelley blue book's most trusted brand winner, seven years in a row. in fact, subaru has won most trusted brand for more consecutive years than any other brand. no wonder kelley blue book also picked subaru as their best overall brand. once again. it's easy to love a brand you can trust. it's easy to love a subaru. ever wonder what everyone's doing on their phones? they're banking, with bank of america. the groom's parents? they just found out they can redeem rewards for a second honeymoon. romance is in the air. like these two. he's realizing he's in love. and that his dating app just went up. must be fate. and phil. he forgot a gift, so he's sending the happy couple some money. digital tools so impressive, you just can't stop banking. what would you like the power to do? with senators back in town or getting on their way to get back in town, democrats are getting ready to move fast once they get a supreme court nomination from president biden. with the white house reiterating the goal for this to be a bipartisan confirmation. whoever the nominee ends up being. the press secretary confirming that the top senators on the ju dish area committee, will be coming to the white house tomorrow to meet with the president. we just heard from a key democrat a ab the pending process too. watch. >> i think they are all excellent names. i really do. there's an awful lot of qualifications. the time has come. it's great to have this many qualified people that can serve justice. >> leon caldwell is on capitol hill. kelly o'donnell is at the white house. the chair and the ranking member heading to the white house. the president doing some outreach. this is not totally atypical. this is something you'd presumably expect to see from a president with a supreme court opening on the line. talk through expectations on that tonight. >> reporter: it is important and it's important especially when you consider president biden was himself once the head of the judiciary committee. he knows the process in a way that many presidents would not. and so this is a gesture about the institutional sort of norms here. it's also direct outreach to senator dick durbin of illinois, the chairman of judiciary, chuck grassley, the most senior republican member of the senate and the ranking member, to just begin the conversation about how he will approach reviewing his list of potential nominees and then what his expectations are about going forward that will be just the beginning. we understand it is more than the three that were initially publicly talked about a lot in that first wave of enthusiasm and excitement about a new vacancy with the retirement of justice breyer. it is expanding to roughly a dozen names. the white house will not go that far publicly, but our own reporting say this is list of women who have strong credentials in the legal community, some in the academic realm, some currently as judges and so on that they are all legitimate candidates being considered and reviewed in the process. that includes at a staff level here at the white house and then vench yulely some group within that. and perhaps other names will also be added along the way. ultimately going to the president and part of what happens here is the senate has an advise and consent role written in the constitution. there are outside groups that will make their voices known. there will be a staff process, which includes all of the vetting of the background and the record and things like the financial history and the resume history of any candidates. all of the checking and vetting that goes on before that would ultimately reach the president's final consideration. so it is a lengthy, complicate ed and work intensive process, but tomorrow what is so important is it will also be a visual kickoff point on the first day of february. the month that the president says he will make his decision. >> it's a great point. so a lengthy, work-intensive process. then it flips over to the hill. once president biden does make the selection, which in and of itself will be a process this the president and his team will do. tell me what you're hearing this afternoon. i know we have been on recess. the senate has been out of town. they are coming back into town. we saw the floor open this hour. we watched it live for a second. and they have a lot on their plate. >> reporter: they do have a lot on their plate. the supreme court nomination is going to be key among them because democrats know this is good for democrats, good for the democratic base, especially since it's a black woman who is going to be nominated. also because this is something that unites the party and enables president biden to show that he is, in fact, a unified president, if he's able to get some republicans on board for this. but this is going to be a priority for democrats while they also have a lot of other things that they are trying to do. namely, you have a whole segment on it, dealing with the ukraine and russia crisis. they are trying to start negotiations on the build back better plan. a group of bipartisan senators are talking about fixing the welcometorial college act. and so there's a long list, but we can be sure the confirmation process is going to be high above it. and then especially since we're hearing that republicans are interested in some of the president's considerations, including senator lindsey graham said yesterday he just spoke so highly, had an enormous amount of praise for her. and indicated she is someone that he could support. fellow south carolina republican senator tim scott told me on friday that she is also someone that he might be able to support as well. so there's lots of republican opportunity out here for bipartisanship as far as this confirmation is concerned, but we have to get the nomination first. >> that's right. i know we'll be tracking that for the next month. thank you both so much. next up, what former president trump said setting off new alarm bells for prosecutors investigating him. and why it's led to this new security request to the fbi. plus how the white house is working to try to calm some nerves about the midterms with some low approval numbers for the president. our team is reporting on this messaging reset, lirt this hour. messinagg reset, lirt this hour. an independent organization that sets strict quality and purity standards. nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. when i get a migraine, i shut out the world. but with nurtec odt that's all behind me now. nurtec can treat and prevent migraines. don't take if allergic to nurtec. the most common side effects were nausea and stomach pain and indigestion. ask your doctor about nurtec today. ♪ ♪ and stomach pain and indigestion. ♪ ♪ voiceover: riders. wanderers on the road of life. the journey is why they ride. when the road is all you need, there is no destination. uh, i-i'm actually just going to get an iced coffee. well, she may have a destination this one time, but usually -- no, i-i usually have a destination. yeah, but most of the time, her destination is freedom. nope, just the coffee shop. announcer: no matter why you ride, progressive has you covered with protection starting at $79 a year. voiceover: 'cause she's a biker... please don't follow me in. former president trump is maing a lot of headlines over his speech this weekend starting with a thing he's still saying and still wrong about that former vice president mike pence could have stopped the investigatorification of the 2020 election on january 6th. mike pence could not have done that. but the former president is also using this rally to get his bis psyched about a 2024 run suggesting he would pardon the people being put behind bars for attacking the capitol during the insurrection. >> if i run and if i win, we will treat those people from january 6th fairly. we will treat them fairly. and if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons. >> he also told supporters to hold the biggest protests in front of the courthouse in georgia. that's not a random location. he picked that specifically because the da inside this building is investigating trump's alleged efforts to overturn the results. now that da is asking the fbi to conduct a risk assessment and to provide security for the courthouse if trump support rs were to storm it. i want to bring in ken delaney and national political reporter shane goldmaccer. we'll get to some of your reporting, which is fascinating. let me start with the da asking the fbi for help story. explain the process here of what's going on. >> sure. it wasn't just her. trump in the speech went after three of the prosecutors calling them radical, vicious, racist prosecutors and calling for protests around their courthouses. and the fullton county district attorney wrote a letter asking for a risk assessment of the county courthouse and government center. she also asked the fbi to provide protected resources. she said her office had already received communications, as she put it, from persons unhappy with our commitment to fulfill our duties. the fbi is not commented publicly, but we know they are watching closely any sort of threat to public officials. >> is this something the fbi would typically do for officials tasked with these high profile investigations? do we know of instances where they have done this before? >> the fbi doesn't provide security for local officials, but it investigates threat, crimes, domestic terrorism, so if this district attorney is getting threats, this is a matter for the fbi. and i have to say. intelligence officials have testified that this kind of rhetoric, the thing that donald trump has been saying and the big lie about the 2020 election is fueling domestic extremism and is a real risk to create violence. they have said that point-blank in hearings that we have covered in recent weeks. >> that's partly why we're not showing some of the more inflammatory things that he said in that rally for the point you note here. you heard what little we did play about the idea he may pardon, he's dangling a pardon for people behind bars from their actions on january 6th if he's reelected in 2024. you have new reporting in the times about how it seems like he wants to, but he's facing some new strains, as it relates to the grip on the republican party. that's really exemplified by a poll number we talked about two weeks ago with our political paem team. more than half of republican ares say they support the party first and then trump second. that is the inverse from what we had seen a year ago. it seems like those were some quantiiable indications for all president trump wants to be the front runner and in polling is at this moment, he might not have as hard core grip. >> the most specific examples right before the election in 2020, it was 54% people identified as trump first, rather than party first. with the erosion in that poll has been among the group that's been backing him most. white voters without college degrees has been the trump base. it's moving towards the party now. but the polling numbers are just one of the ways that this is showing up. he's endorsed nearly 100 candidates all across the country. in several of them, there has been blowback from the maga movement. it's the movement growing up and separating. saying we don't agree. we don't agree with that endorsement in texas. so there's daylight between him and the base and there's no issue that cap it is it more than vaccines. where trump did not mention the word vaccine at the rally on saturday after previously mentioning it at public events and getting cheers and boos from the crowd. he mentioned operation warp speed, but he didn't talk about vaccines. and that's a notable shift. >> you talked about what's happening at some of the of endorsements, and the example here of what happened with starbuck that comes to mind. >> so in tennessee, trump endorsed someone not running for congress yet, but may run for congress. a former administration official who worked for mike pompeo. there was blowback from the right wing of the party in favor of this. saying he had made a mistake. you had a prominent trump figure in media and online activists questioning him. you had republican members of congress going out endorsing against the president. this is the case where the movement is saying, hey, we remain the most popular republican, but we don't think you're infallible. and that is a shift. i don't want to say that donald trump is not still the most popular republican figure in the country. he's still the best fundraiser the republicans have. but these are new developments and sort of new signs of strain and support that haven't existed in recent years. >> thank you both so much if your reporting. appreciate it. turning to spotify on damage control with its most popular podcaster talking about some of the new backlash for the first time since it all started. spotify has said it's going to put advisories on any content that talks about covid. is and a pop-up will direct to trusted information. with its biggest star after backlash now promising to listen to the criticism about covid misinformation on his podcast and make some changes. watch. >> my pledge to you is that i will do my best to try to balance out these more controversial viewpoints with other people's perspective to find a better vau. i don't want to just show the contrary opinion to what the narrative is. i want to show all kinds of opinions. >> neil young jump started this whole thing after demanding spotify take down his music if it kept ledleting rogan on the podcast to spread covid misinformation. i want to bring in host of a podcast and friend of the show kara swisher. temperatures great to see you. thank you for being with us. >> backdrop is that rogan has $100 million contract with spotify. he's getting paid from spotify. so when he says he has a dog in this fight, this isn't just, that make it is different. you have been weeting a about this. s so talk about how you see this playing out. where do you see the tension points between rogan and spotify or can they get past this? >> lths start with the beginning. spotify is pretending it's a platform, and it's a media company. they have responsibilities. and what was sbrsting in the statement he said con tenlt sensor. that's called editing when you're part of a media company. everybody suffers these controversies. so they are responsible for him. they are not protected the same way a tech company might be, even though it seems loathsome, they are not protected because they have an editorial relationship with him. so i thought his statement went much further and was much more human and reflective and even apologetic for him. hi could have gone a whole different way. spotify was trying to play all sides. we'll see if the backlash continues because they have to make some significant changes to misinformation, particularly around health care. >> what would you like to see them do? >> one of the things, not joe rogan specific, but corrections, additions. i don't know why they are putting an a advisory on all covid information. what if it's accurate? why not just a correction? things like that i'm not talking an overwhelming amount of it. it's just joe rogan said he wants to do a better job of what he's doing. he's a very high-level person. he's very powerful. and it's hard to say we're going for the man when you kind of are the man. it's an interesting situation. and spotify hired the man. so they have to talk with him and deal with it like any other media cane. >> it's an important point you're making. the addition tings between a platform versus a content developer. because that's at the crux of this. because spotify is saying, no, we are a platform. people use our platform, even in some of the same ways we have seen facebook or some of the other social media companies you report on. >> facebook doesn't make content. they don't pay anyone $100 million. if they did, they would be responsible for them. this is a very different relationship. i don't like it on facebook either and they have responsibility, but in this case, it's a clear cut case of responsibility. or they can just take the backlash. fox news does. it's normal. this is part of the normal media environment. it's not old or new. they hire him, it's an editorial decision. it's not censorship to try to correct incorrect facts. or just don't do it. then deal with the criticism. >> real quick, do you think this is potential for a tipping point? we have seen neil young and a few others, but there hasn't been a big moment of collective action. do you think what spotify said put this is to bed and they move on? >> i have never seen this much response from them. they are usually quiet. that's a good thing. and joe rogan's response was a good thing. it could be a netflix situation. everybody moves in and it was a big thing and then it wasn't. i don't know. it depends on how this continue asks what joe rogan does. it might continue. who knows. >> great to see you. thank you so much. coming up after the break, the firstin our brand new series, whose idea was that any way president bush how the magic number for supreme court justices got to nine when it was originally six. rt justic gesot to nine when it was justic gesot to nine when it was originally six we could bringt right to your door. with 1 to 2 day delivery from your local cvs. or same day if you need it sooner. but aren't you g you can also just swing by to pick it up, and get your questions answered? because peace of mind is something you just can't get in a cardboard box. that's how healthier happens together with cvs. woman: i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 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we're taking a look at that question part of our new series called "whose idea of that any way." it was figured out when a bill set the number of justices at six. you're thinking six, there must have been 3-3 ties all over the place. not really. things were partisan. but back then it was all federalism. the system was working the way federalists wanted it to. it lasted about 12 years. if you know your history, you'll remember that's when anti-federalist got elected president. the federalists and outgoing president john adams saw which way the wind was blowing and used the last months in power to build a system of courts packed with federalist thinkers and shrink it down to five justices. point being, make it harder for jefferson to do things. that didn't last long. when the new congress came in, they changed the number back to six, but those moves created this dynamic of the court being almost a political tool, changing based opt whoever was in power. and the decades after that, it ballooned to ten justices on the bench before a bill signed by president grant in 1869 put the number at 9 and that has stuck since then. 8 associate justices and one chief justice, the same makeup you see tote. status quo for 150 years. there was that one time when fdr tried to bulk up to 15, but the senate shot that down. keep in mind president biden launched a special commission to look at potential court restrooms like adding more justices. that was a non-starter, but if any president wanted to change the number of justices and congress did too, it could happen. bottom line, there are many rights in this country. but having nine justices on the bench is just not one of them. coming up next, the democratic party is holding off on a primary endorsement in one of the biggest senate races in the country. who that move helps and who it hurts. plus the messaging reset push inside the white house with the biden administration want thes to shift focus on ahead of the mitt terms. that's coming up. on ahead of the mitt terms the mitt terms that's coming upversus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. what happens when we welc? 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>> yeah, lieutenant governor said that when he spoke to the room that day. he said, you know, how do you judge how a campaign is doing? is it polling? is it fundraising? and that was a direct statement on how his campaign is winning in those two lanes and endorsements are just a piece of this. but i think you see an interesting kind of front runner, outsider candidate. he's really not getting the kind of established democratic party support that you usually see following the front runners rl on. >> we set up the stakes of this race and i follow this closely, a, because i covered poitics, and also because i'm from pennsylvania. it's the marquee race of the midterms here. whatever happens from it. we explained it and you explained in your piece there, as goes this pennsylvania seat, perhaps so goes the senate majority come november here. talk about what you hear from sources and the folks you're talking to throughout the course of your reporting more broadly on this race. >> everybody sees the stakes as incredibly high. and i think you hear it in all the candidate pitches. congressman lamb more broadly has been i'm the person who can win. we have to win. state representative malcolm who has been running behind the other two, he's tried to tell those rooms you know, don't vote scared. so you're really seeing kind of the stakes play out in how the candidates are running. >> do you anticipate -- whoever democrats line up behind, the republican side, as well in pennsylvania. is it your sense -- sometimes people go these are primaries are but we'll be on the same page in the general. >> i think we're hearing a lot of that. on the senate side it still feels pretty wide open in terms of what's going to happen but you're hearing people say that come -- once there's a candidate it is going to be all hands on deck. you hear the unions say that. there's a split of union backing in this race but everybody says come the summer they will be in the same boat. >> julia, "the philadelphia enquirer," we hope to have you back. >> i'd love that. >> thank you. federal trial in the killers of ahmaud arbery, i want to bring in pete williams and danny cevelos. the judge rejected the plea deal. talk me to about what we know. >> there's a break in the hearing right now. travis mcmichael agreed to plead guilty of federal hate crimes. he agreed in this plea agreement to say that he killed ahmaud arbery because of his race. to say it was a hate crime flatly. the prosecutor said that was an important statement. and that it was -- that they defended the plea agreement but they also said that they understood that the family of ahmaud arbery accepted this plea deal and both the mother and father of ahmaud arbery said in court today that is not the case why the mother said it's -- let me look at the notes. it is not fair to take away the victory i prayed for and fought for granting the men the preferred conditions to defeat me and gives them another chance to spit in my face. under the terms of the plea agreement if it was accepted by the judge and became a final entry and still up in the air because at this point we don't know whether travis mcmichael is going to go through the deal. he is prepared to plead guilty and don't know if he will or not. it is not clear what he would gain. he would gain not having a trial but i think the main thing that interested them in pleading guilty here was that they would serve the first 30 years of a life sentence in state court and first 30 years in federal prison. the justice department has an investigation of georgia state prisons which have a notorious history but the mother said i want them in georgia state prison. i understand that. she and ahmaud arbery's father strongly urge the judge not to accept the deal. one other thing here. the prosecutor said that the two men initially approached the government and offered to plead and did government turned it down and then said the plea agreement came together and before it was signed she said the justice department lawyers were told by lawyers for the family that the family would not object to the plea deal. that information, the parents both say, is absolutely not true. the prosecutor said i am not blaming the family. the judge said i don't know where we stand here now. i want to hear from more people. >> right. >> called a recess. travis mcmichael has to decide whether he wants to go ahead with the plea or not. we'll know that shortly. >> okay. a couple questions to you and then danny. pete, i think you answered it in the last sentence. we are paused. the judge will come back. like today? >> yes. oh yes. oh yes. very much. >> we'll know if this is moving forward. >> within a short period of time. >> what is the explanation for the disconnect in this case and the family and the prosecutor saying we thought the family wanted this? do we know what's behind that disconnect? >> no. the government said they were told by the lawyers for the parents that the parents would not oppose this deal. >> got it. >> the parents say, no, we never agreed to such deal. >> got it. >> whether this was a breakdown in communication involving the lawyers or what it is not clear. >> danny, how unusual is it that something like this happens? wall to wall coverage on cable news with the state trial happening. >> a number of unusual things happening here. it is unusual for a judge to reject a plea agreement but it does happen and defendants are warned in advance that it is always a possibility even if it is not likely. victim's families are on board maybe not like this one but give the family or the victim certainty and not a risk to be found not guilty at trial. but it is important to remember that the victims do not dictate what the prosecutors do. in fact it is only because of a recent is that chute that victims can have a right to be heard at federal hearings or plea agreements or sentencings or i should say plea hearings. before that there was no right sort to speak. now there is a statutory right but at the end of the day it is the prosecutors who make the decision. they are not beholden to the victims. what the judge did here it seems is said it doesn't seem like everyone is on the same page. i can wait a minute and then we convene once i figure everything out. >> is it possible -- i hear you when you say the prosecutor doesn't have to take victim family statements into account but could the judge? if the judge is hearing as pete describes an anguished statement from wanda cooper jones, ahmaud arbery's mother about this, could the judge take into consideration? >> the crime victim right requires it. but more like a -- >> pete? >> i think pete was talking to the producer. danny, you keep doing with the thought. >> i apologize. i thought pete was telling me i was getting horribly wrong. it requires that the judge hear from the victims and for that reason the judge is likely taking into account the victims' opinions on the ultimate plea agreement even though the victim cannot force the prosecutor to do one thing or the other. the prosecutors make their own decisions. the victims and the families are not the clients of the federal prosecutor. >> what pete was saying is telling the producer to go to finish what happens tonight so we thank him for that as he considers the reporting. danny, what happens then if in however minutes -- we don't know when it will happen. travis mcmichael says i'll take my chances and go to trial? is that what would be the next step in this instance? >> this language is in every plea agreement and every defendant is warned of it. look, there is a small chance that the judge may reject the plea agreement. if the judge does that then you're not bound by the exact agreement and then rejected. so now the defendant can go back and decide maybe i don't want anymore discussions. let's go to trial. if they're interested in a plea maybe they go back to the drawing board. no side is forced to go to trial but might be something that the judge sees as unfair. >> if for example the defendants, mcmichaels, do see it to try to work out something to go to federal prison for a portion of the sentence. they could go back as you say to the drawing board and figure out plea deal and the family would have less of an issue with? >> yes. or could plead straight up. they could say what the heck? we have got -- in prison for the rest of our lives. we'll plead to the indictment. the prosecutor really would be happy to agree to that and not any conditions attached to it. more than likely they try to negotiate something different that the judge is likely to accept. the victim's family indicated in reports at least they're not interested in anything. they want a trial no matter who. the prosecutors will hear the voices but at the end of the day it is the doj or the u.s. attorney's decision to prosecute and to make major decisions about the case. not the victim's family. >> danny, thank you so much. thanks to pete williams, too. will have more on this. that does it for us. 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