a very good day to all of you. from msnbc news headquarters in new york, welcome to alex witt reports. new polling from nbc news shows overwhelming majorities believe the country is headed in the wrong direction, and there's a real threat to democracy. senator bernie sanders responding to the low marks democrats are receiving, saying the party needs to start taking a different, more aggressive approach. >> i think there's widespread understanding that what we've done in the last mix months has failed. we need to change course, and find the courage to take on the republicans, and let manchin and sinema decide what side they're on. >> today, bennie thompson says the january 6th panel has already spoken with william barr. >> do you intend to go to the attorney general, bill barr, to follow up on this? >> yes, we do, we have had conversations with the former attorney general already. we've talked to department of defense individuals. >> meantime, tensions between russia and ukraine are reaching a fever pitch. while the uk warns about a plot to install a pro-moscow leader in ukraine. >> we've been concerned and have been warning about exactly these kinds of tactics for weeks. that russia would try to topple and replace the government. just a few days ago, we sanctioned four russian agents in ukraine. this is very much part of the russian playbook. it's important that people look at the whole range of things that russia could and may be preparing to do in ukraine. >> guys, good to see you both. let's go to you, josh, at the white house. how is the biden administration responding to the report that russia is trying to topple the ukrainian government? >> reporter: this kind of a plot from russia would be deeply concerning. the secretary of state didn't want to get too much into the intelligence details. but what the white house and antony blinken want to do, they want to lay out the tools and tricks russia uses, people will be able to call it out in real time. when russia sent in the russian forces, who were not wearing russian uniforms, so as a result, it was really easy for russia at the time to falsely claim they were not involved in stirring up the violence that ultimately culminated in the invasion by russia. so now, the biden administration is trying to do everything they can to preempt that, by publicly laying out what they think russia may do to try to create a justification for the invasion u.s. officials have been warning for weeks could be coming. >> the russian government's track record in providing honest and accurate information about their activities in ukraine is suspect at best. what we're saying is that we're going to call those things out when we see them. that's what the uk did with this report, which we find concerning, and par for the course for the russians in the past. >> reporter: the fact of the matter, the international community is not quite as united as the biden administration would like to be. to be able to send that clear, unified signal to president putin. we know there have been disagreements between the u.s. and allies about some of the punitive measures they would like to take against russia. and even when it comes to the u.s. pushing back, president biden has taken off the table the notion the u.s. would put its own ground troops in ukraine. but we're now providing lethal weapons and equipment to ukraine, and they could arm and support an insurgency if russia does invade. >> things are moving very quickly on an intelligence, military, and diplomatic front. with the intelligence, overnight, the british government taking the unusual step of making public this intelligence, saying the kremlin is looking to mount a coup in ukraine, to replace the president with a former russian member of parliament, now an oligarch in ukraine. and talking about the kind of costs britain wants to see russia pay if it moves ahead with an invasion. >> ukraine is a free country, it should decide its own fate. we will support them in defending themselves. but also to the international community, the european nato allies, the u.s., we're standing shoulder to shoulder. saying there will be very serious consequences if russia invades, but also to install a puppet regime. >> reporter: russia is calling these allegations disinformation, they're denying them completely. and the ball is in the u.s.' court at this point. you remember, russia made this series of proposals, demands, really, calling for the deconstruction of nato in eastern europe. the u.s. saying those demands in their current form are a non-starter. but secretary of state blinken saying today, the u.s. will respond in writing to those proposals. his hope is there may be some areas of compromise that could lead to this situation being defused without bloodshed. but the number of russian troops on ukraine's border continuing to grow by the day. some estimates are that there are 120,000 soldiers poised at the border. >> let's bring in hayes brown, welcome to you, my friend. let's get your reaction to the russia/ukraine situation. where should it sit on the list of priorities? >> the thing is, vladimir putin wants this to be joe biden's number one priority. the reason why putin didn't do this while trump was president, trump didn't care about ukraine. biden cares. they know they can negotiate with the biden administration. so putin and his team, according to fiona hill, and i agree, said this is the time to move, so we can get as much as we can out of the u.s. they don't want to conquer ukraine as a whole. they want whatever they can get out of the leverage that threatening ukraine provides. threatening the province they first invaded back in 2013, or concessions about nato or demilitarization of eastern europe, they want whatever they can get out of the biden administration. the biden knows, we have to move forward, and all of the allies are not entirely on board about what the red line would be for russia for them to take action. they're doing the best they can, they're on the right course, trying to move diplomatically and trying to reinforce ukraine. if russia does invade, there's actually little the u.s. can do to stop it, and putin knows that, too. neither side wants a total invasion of ukraine, at least that's my thinking. they want to see what they can get out of the threat of that. >> interesting assessment. very interesting. what about the president right now, all this coinciding with kicking off his second year in office. there's a lot of domestic matters on his plate, omicron, inflation, voting rights. he's facing a slew of new challenges. what approach do you think he should take to tackle some of these things effectively? >> one of the problems he has, that democrats are going to have for a long time, when you come into office after years of government ignoring problems that are building up, affordable housing, taxes on the wealthy and the wealth gap, student loans, you come into office, you have all these things you want to do, but you need to pass new laws to get any of it done. and the focus is so much on congress. the report from nbc news last week that says the white house is planning a strategic reset, focusing more on talking to the american people, and not so much on negotiations with congress. but the problem is, so much of what he needs and wants is wrapped up in that legislative agenda. and republicans don't have this problem. they can do things, they can choose to enforce or not enforce, or re-interpret laws already on the books. democrats are hamstrung by that right now. and the fact that there are such slim majorities makes it hard for him to deliver on the many things that were promised. >> let's look at this new poll about what issues americans care about most. omicron, the economy, right there at the top. voting rights and the cost of living there as well. do the moves by the administration appropriately reflect the feelings of the country? >> i think, yes. part of the issue is, again, democrats have this problem, the limits on the presidency are the ones that most hurt democrats, to be honest. people blame the president for oil prices, for jobs, for things of that nature, they really don't flow through the white house. but because they're the point person, they expect it to, they expect it to be something that biden can do for inflation. so i think that the focus is correct. i think that the things like the build back better act are essentially jobs bills, they're for investing in the american economy and growing the economy. making sure that wages not only go up, but exceed inflation, making sure people have good, solid, well-paying jobs. but you can't push those things without this infrastructure in place, ironically enough, that new laws will provide. we'll see how, especially as the spring comes around, the money gets spent from the infrastructure bill. whether that almost trillion dollars of spending can make a dent in some of these concerns that people are having. but i think we're in for another few weeks of bad pools at least for the biden administration. there's not much they can pull the lever and sign an executive order and help fix. they can try with new messaging, but there's nothing i can see at least in the next few weeks. >> i appreciate the sunday chat with you, hayes brown. thank you. my next guest called the trump administration the greatest counterintelligence threat in the nation's history. he also says the threat hasn't gone away. that's next. that's next. , no, no, after you. wahoooo! 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>> reporter: he heard from from -- let's take a listen to what the chairman said today, and we'll talk about it on the other side. >> to be honest with you, we've had conversations with the former attorney general already. we've talked to the department of defense individuals, we have concerns that our military was part of this big lie on promoting that the election was false. so if you are using the military to potentially seize voting machines, even though it's a discussion, the public needs to know. >> reporter: so thompson there making a bit of news, a pretty stunning revelation that the panel already spoke to former attorney general bill barr, he resigned after publicly rebuking the false claims of election fraud. the executive order the committee has their hands on was never signed, but it names sidney powell, an attorney for the former president. she was named as somebody potentially to be special counsel to oversee this military operation, seizing voting machines in battleground states. we don't know who wrote the order, but chairman thompson says they don't know anything in terms of the operational plan, just the executive order and the existence of that draft. but we're sure to find more information as they go through the documents. >> joining me now, peter strzok, the lead agent on robert mueller's russia collusion investigation. his book comes out in paperback this week. congratulations on that, peter. it's a wonderful thing to have accomplished. when you hear about the fact that the former attorney general of the united states has been drawn into all of this, what goes through your mind? >> it's not surprising. and before we paint former attorney general barr as some sort of hero, the fact of the matter is, just the extraordinary damage that was done to the department of justice and the federal bureau of investigation by barr and trump, and the way they undid prosecutions of former president trump's allies. it's important to realize, it's not just a retrospective look at what happened in the past administration, it's about accountability going forward. it's not lost on former president trump and people like steve bannon, one of the critical things they needed and did not have were loyalists at the department of justice and the department of defense that would do what they needed them to do. the concern we have is what that means going forward, particularly as we look at the prospect of another trump run for office in 2024. >> let me ask you, though, and this has been discussed on the show just today. when you see the people that all of a sudden, you say you don't want to have bill barr looked at as a hero. what has changed, is it being out of the trump orbit for a while, and they wake up and see it's a new day, and regain a sense of their conscience or whatever? because a lot of these people knew what was going on at the time, and yet did nothing about it. they just went along with trump's bidding. >> right. and what is particularly concerning to me, which is aggravating and maddening, the facts that we've seen emerge after the trump administration, the late night oval office meetings, attempts to shift power within the department of defense, these come out through books written by journalists. i understand that attorney general barr has a book coming out. imagine what would have happened if during the second impeachment trial, all of these individuals, from the attorney general to the director of the cia, to any number of people who resigned, imagine if they came forward at the moment of the second impeachment, and said, here's what happened. here's what i saw. the inflection point, the moment where congress and the american political body might have done something was then. to hear it come out now, people attempting to recast themselves on the right side of history. but i don't think it's going to work. >> it's tragic it didn't come out at the point you're making there. and let's talk about the executive order, the u.s. military, to seize voting machines. do you see similarities to what happened at the doj through the duration of the trump administration? >> what is concerning about this, how far some accounts say that plan went. it may well be that trump told sidney powell that she would be appointed as special counsel, and she would have a security clearance, but it was only through the maneuverers of people like mark meadows that that was walked back. if there were not people to tell the president and the chief of staff that you cannot do this, what will happen in the future? my worry as we look at 2024, who are the people going to be, who will be willing to work for a potential second trump administration, who will offer any short of pushback whatsoever to these crazy schemes? >> how many on the list of trump close associates do you think may be indicted? which ones would you say are in the greatest jeopardy? >> i think every indication is that the investigation already that they're asking people about their connections to folks like roger stone and rudy giuliani. if you think about that, giuliani is trump's personal attorney. already, the reporting we've heard about the folks who have been charged and the investigations, they're asking about connections to that level. i think you see several folks who were involved certainly in the pre-planning and communication aspect of that. so, how closely were they not just communicating, but to what extent were they directing actions? and what did president trump know at the time? was he involved in planning, taking or giving cues on january 6th? i expect these are questions that will continue to be asked as investigators and prosecutors work their way up the chain of events on and around january 6th. >> i'm looking at the title of your book, given what it says, do you think that donald trump continues to pose a counterintelligence threat to this country? and if so, how? >> absolutely i do. one of the biggest questions that came out of the past administration was, whether or not there would be a comprehensive look at the vulnerabilities that donald trump posed to the united states. i'm not convinced that ever occurred. you were talking about the report by the british government, talking about this puppet government that russia had identified and was planning to install. four of the individuals in that have connections to paul manafort. as you look at the connections between somebody like russia and the united states, those links go directly to people who were intimately involved in getting president trump elected, and also in his administration. that hasn't been fully explored, and the american people don't have an understanding of the links there and the vulnerabiliies that continue to exist. >> ari melber talked to three former members of trump's team who outlined the plan for fake electors, they say it was legal. do you get the sense they're testing the letter of the law, as opposed to the spirit of the law? >> it's an extraordinarily audacious plan. anytime you look to undermine the will of millions of millions of people, it's an undemocratic thing to do. but it comes down to accountability. the type of person donald trump is, the type of people he has around him, are not swayed by civic duty or the institution of the united states. what they understand is, if they do something wrong, whether or not they're punished. and they tried to undermine the vote, pushing the boundaries. when they found they can get away with it, they just continued to push further. that's why it's important going forward that these actions have to be held to account. if they're not, you can bet the boundaries will continue to be pushed going forward, and are absolutely just a foreshadowing of what we'll see in the years to come. >> last quick question, you're a little bit of an expert on russia. do you think vladimir putin is pushing and testing president biden in a way he never did donald trump before, because he knows that president biden cares about this, and has the assumption that donald trump just didn't care about going up against russia? >> i don't know. i think we may overblow how much putin's actions have to do with president biden versus former president trump. it's clear that putin has a very limited hand that he's playing very, very well. the reality of the situation, in a short period of time, president biden may be faced with an armed conflict, a war in europe. and certainly that is something he's going to have to navigate. as far as what we face with putin, putin is a longstanding rival of the united states. he believes he can gain some advantage by portraying biden in one way, trump in a different way, sowing division in the united states. he's going to do that. but his plans towards ukraine has much more to do with putin than with the united states president. >> point well made. peter, thank you. as protesters in washington denounce covid vaccine mandates, employers are still deciding how to handle the issue with their employees. that's next. employees. that's next. that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. >> vo: my car is my after-work decompression zone. ♪ music ♪ >> vo: so when my windshield broke... i found the experts at safelite autoglass. they have exclusive technology and service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ with downy infusions, let the scent set the mood. feel the difference with downy. when i break a long run, i'm talking long, long. that's why i use old spice triple protection sweat defense. 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at&t and verizon say absolutely not. >> 40 countries have found a pathway to safe 5g. we can do it in america. we have the requirements in place to make it safe. >> reporter: the issue, 5g operates on a frequency range very close to that used by the altimeters. >> so as we can see, they can coexist, if they stay within their own lane. >> reporter: separating those frequency highways requires a buffer zone. europe has no reports of altimeter interference. verizon and at&t insist the u.s. buffer zone is even bigger. >> we want to enable 5g, c-band deployment, make no mistake about that. but we've got to do in a way so that aviation safety is not compromised. >> reporter: since tuesday, the faa has been methodically check to see whether airplanes are vulnerable to interference. once the review is complete, 5g sites at least two miles from airports could be allowed to go live. >> i would not be comfortable flying those aircraft with passengers onboard until we get results. but the good news is, we're going to get it resolved. >> reporter: people ask, how did it come to this, with a last-minute agreement just before they flipped on 5g for other sites? both sides are blaming each other for failing to act in good faith. in the end, it was the airline ceos threatening to cancel thousands of flights that forced verizon and at&t to postpone flipping these sites on at least until july. illegitimate slates of electors revealed by the january 6th committee. the new information we're learning about it, next. the new information we're learning about it, next. wondering what actually goes into your multi-vitamin. at new chapter. its innovation organic ingredients and fermentation. fermentation? yes, formulated to help your body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness well done. hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this. your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone. we gave new zzzquil pure zzzs restorative herbal sleep you can pick the best plan for each employee to people who were tired of being tired. i've never slept like this before. i've never woken up like this before. crafted with clinically studied plant-based ingredients that work naturally with your body. for restorative sleep like never before. search for justice for george floyd. opening statements begin tomorrow in the federal trial of three former police officers who were on scene when fellow officer derek chauvin kneeled on the neck of george floyd for more than nine minutes when ultimately killed him. the men are charges depriving flooid of his civil rights. i'm joined by chuck rosenberg, msnbc contributor and former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official. always good to see you, my friend. let's talk about what happens when this jury trial begins tomorrow. what should we be watching for? should derek chauvin's conviction on the state murder charges, does that factor into these proceedings? >> not really, alex. i mean, it's not admissible evidence. nor should the jury consider things that happened outside of the courtroom. the judge will instruct them to consider only the facts and the testimony and the documents that are adduced in the courtroom. what will happen, the government will start with its opening statement. the burden of proof is on the government and is always on the government throughout a trial. and then each of the counsel for each of the defendants will have an opportunity to make opening statements as well. and after that, whenever that concludes, the jury will start hearing evidence. >> okay. let's turn then to the new developments in the 1/6 investigation. we have bennie thompson, who chairs the house 1/6 committee who said this morning they have spoken with former attorney general bill barr, and individuals from the department of defense, and he said that he is concerned about that draft executive order that laid out a plan to use the national guard, the u.s. military, chuck, to seize voting machines. how significant is it in your mind that they are in conversation with bill barr about this, and what will be they investigating about the military's role in interference? >> yeah, let me take the second question first, alex, if i may. there is a federal statute that prohibits using the military to enforce federal domestic criminal law. there are some exceptions to it, none of which i imagine apply here. and so if the president or those around him, his minions, were really thinking about using the military to enforce federal domestic law, that's a problem. as for mr. barr, you know, alex, we spend a lot of time talking about the folks who don't cooperate with the committee or who don't tell the truth. and really, the committee has heard from hundreds and hundreds of people. i think 400 people or so, who had cooperated and who ostensibly did tell the truth. i'm glad mr. barr is speaking to hem. he should be speaking to them. i believe that's his obligation both as a citizen and as a former attorney general of the united states. and i hope he's telling them the truth. look, what he knows is important to the committee. but so is what all these other people know, too. and i'm glad that overwhelmingly, citizens, many of whom are former government officials, are stepping forward to do what they ought to do. that said, we ought not give all that much credit to people who do what they ought to do. this is what he ought to do. i'm glad he's doing it. >> good point. let's talk about the house 1/6 committee and law enforcement investigating the role fake slates of electors played in donald trump's attempt to try to overturn the election. i'm sure you're familiar with it, baimai colleague ari melber spoke to peter navarro and boris epstein, and also one of the organizers of the january 6th rally named justin stockton. let's take a look at this exchange. it's pretty extraordinary. >> the ellipse rally was supposed to be like the opening argument, if you will. they were supposed to present hard evidence that was kind of the hook, and then inside the capitol, when the split happened, the green bay sweep started and the objection started, there was supposed to be more evidence presented. >> that's what the green bay sweep was all about. all mike pence was sboezed to do on capitol hill that day was send the results back to the six battleground states for ten days. >> we have spoken about the pence piece. there's also reporting about the attempt to seat frauj lnlt electors. is that something you have worked on or would support in michigan? >> that's so funny. not fraudulent electors. it's alternate electors. yes, i was part of the process to make sure there were alternate eleathers for when as we hope the challenge to the electors would be heard. everything we did was done legally by the trump legal team according to the rules and under the leadership of rudy giuliani. >> so i'm curious, chuck, legally speaking, legal perspective here, what do you make of all that you just heard? >> yeah, i think the legal term for this, alex, is that it's nutty. there is really so much to unpack. but briefly, electors are chosen by the voters of each state. so pick a random state. when someone runs for president, right, there's a democrat, there's a republican. there's a slate of democratic electors, a slate of republican electors. if the republican wins stat state, then the slate of republican electors and their names are sent forward. and they vote for the president. and vice versa, if the democrat wins the state, the democratic slate of electors goes forward and the democrat gets those electoral votes. there is no alternate set of electoral votes once the state certifies. it's either the democratic slate or the republican slate. and trying to impose another slate of electors is a fraud. whether or not it's a crime is another matter. you would also have to prove intent, but if states or individuals are certifying as mr. epstein said, an alternate slate of electors, as being the real slate of electors, that's a problem. they are under investigation for it by the january 6th committee, whether or not states and authorities are looking at it as a potential crime, i don't yet know, but i imagine they are. >> okay, chuck rosenbug, always a pleasure. thank you so much for your insights. >> that's going to do it for me on this edition of alex witt reports. i'll see you next saturday at noon. up next, joe fryer continues our conversation with the latest on the threat of war in ukraine. when you really need to sleep. you reach for the really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. (naj) at fisher investments, our clients know we have their backs. (other money manager) how do your clients know that? (naj) because as a fiduciary, it's our responsibility to always put clients first. (other money manager) so you do it because you have to? (naj) no, we do it because it's the right thing to do. we help clients enjoy a comfortable retirement. (other money manager) sounds like a big responsibility. 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[copy machine printing] ♪ ♪ who would've thought printing... could lead to growing trees. ♪ once upon a time, at the magical everly estate, landscaper larry and his trusty crew... were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone. good afternoon. i'm joe fryer in for yasmin vossoughian today. we have got a lot to cover for you right now. a major new revelation from the chairman of the january 6th committee. representative bennie thompson says they have talked to former attorney general bill barr. we're going to have the latest on that. the putin plot. an explosive new report reveals the russian leader's alleged plan to take over the ukrainian government with a