Transcripts For MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240709 : comp

Transcripts For MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240709



raffensperger, a republican and his wife. -- joe biden's win. weeks after the first report, the justice department announced he was launching a special task force, dedicated to threats against election workers, saying, quote a threat to any election official, worker, or volunteer is a threat to democracy. well, it is been almost six months since that task force was bounced. today, if for charges. a texas man was indicted, today, for threatening election and government officials in georgia. indictment does not name the official, we're following them as officials a, b and c. -- on january the 5th, last, year titled, georgia patriot this time to kill official a, the chinese agent, $10,000. i guess the $10,000 was what he was offering to pay to have that official killed. he then goes on to talk about putting bullets in three georgia officials. calling them treasonous traitors. as i said, we do not know who the election officials are that this guy threatened, as for the weird stuff about one georgia election official being a chinese agent, obviously, there were all kinds of conspiracy theories, being pushed by -- tampering with the vote count. i will also mention, just a few days before this threat was posted, then president trump accused georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger, of hiding all the election fraud, because his brother works for china. a conspiracy theory that managed to gain traction, despite the fact that not only did brad raffensperger not have a brother who works for china, he doesn't even have a brother. this guy in texas has been charged for these threats, the first case from the justice department task force, to combat threats against election workers. it's a start. you know, is strangely fitting that the first charge for threatening election officials should come out of georgia. georgia really has been ground zero for harassment of election workers, because it's been ground zero for donald trump's campaign to overturn the 2020 election, and undermine the new administration of elections, for the next time around. this guy in texas didn't wake up one morning and decide he wanted to randomly threatened to kill election officials, in georgia. sorry, he did not think of it on his own. a pressure campaign against elections officials has consequences. consequences, that were warned about all the way back in december 2020, by georgia's top elections administrator, a republican. you may remember this moment. >> i'm going to do my best to keep it together, because it has all gone too far. all of it. the straw that broke the camel's back today, this 20-year-old contract for a voting system company, just trying to do his job. his family is getting harassed no, there's a news out there with his name on it. it's not right. this kid took a job, he just took a job -- i can begin to explain the level of anger i have about this. every american, every georgian, every republican, democrat, should have the same level of anger. mister president, it looks like you likely lost the -- war investigating, there's always a possibility, i get, it you have the right to go for the courts. would you don't have the ability to do, and you need to step up and say, this stop inspiring people to give potential acts of violence. somebody is going to get, hurts and he's going to get. shots and he's going to get killed. it's not right. >> it was clear. all the way back in december 2020, that the campaign of pressure and harassment against election officials by donald trump and his allies, was producing a campaign of threats and harassment against elections officials. elections workers ineffectual's in georgia, and across the country, are being terrorized. they're leaving their jobs in droves. we are reminded this week, it's not just those threats that are being investigated, trump's pressure campaign itself, is very much under criminal investigation. the district attorney in fulton county, georgia, this moved -- in her investigation into trump's attempts to mess with the election in georgia. that investigation sent us on that infamous phone call -- pressuring him to find more votes. if that special grand jury is approved, it will be able to issue subpoenas for testimony and evidence. it wasn't just that george a case, potentially taking that big lead forward, this week. this may have been the worst week of legal developments for donald trump, his family, and his allies, since he left office. this week also brought new allegations from new york's attorney general, of possible fraud at trump's business. a filing this week lays out the most detailed accusations yet, of potentially fraudulent business practices of the trump organization. as eternally general, letitia james, -- from trump, his son don jr., and his daughter ivanka, suggesting that early years long investigation, maybe nearing its end. the january six investigation, this week, asked for testimony from ivanka. trump in a letter that was laid out in stunning detail, how much the committee has learned about what was going on inside the oval office, as rioters ransacked the capitol. plus, how little trump did to stop the violence, even those around him, begged him to intervene. there were also damning developments on the fake electors scheme. this was a scheme in which republicans in states joe biden won, created inside certificates a certain that trump and won their state. they sent these fake slates of electors to congress. there were multiple reports, this week, that this plot was pushed by the trump campaign. specifically by, who else, rudy giuliani. that comes as officials in multiple states, this week, -- related to that scheme. suggesting that there could alternately beach criminal charges for those involved, for forgery or other related crimes. one democratic congressman for wisconsin asked merrick garland to look into the matter. speaking of rudy giuliani, there is news just tonight, that thousands of his communications have been turned over to federal prosecutors in new york, who are investigating giuliani's dealings in ukraine. i know, it's hard to keep up. all of that doesn't even cover what might be donald trump's biggest, lost the supreme court's refusal to block the national archives from handing over hundreds of pages from trump's records to the january six investigation. trump had been fighting it for months, but those -- oh boy. the first document that we've gotten a look at is a doozy. it is a draft executive order, turned over from the files of a white house lawyer, that would've ordered the defense secretary to seize voting machines. this never issued executive order says the defense undersecretary must sees all -- all of them, were infiltrated by foreign powers, who change on the vote totals, and made it just seem like trump lost. which is of course stunning, but also, can i just say, at the end of a week in which rico publicans have been hammering them -- calling it a federal takeover of elections, here is evidence from donald trump considering an actual federal takeover of elections, and election machines. look, to be clear, a lot of this draft executive order is labored in language -- like an actual presidential executive order. betsy woodruff swan points out, the opening of this document sites -- including, a classified document that is not previously been reported on, which may suggest that somebody involved in drafting the document had access to this to sensitive government information. that said, we do not know who drafted, nor how seriously it was considered. what has been previously reported, that some proposal like this was debated in the oval office on december the 18th, 2020. this document is dated the 16th of december. this is only the first trump white house record we've seen that has been turned over to the january six investigation. what on earth -- would also they going to turn up? joining us now, congressman pete aguilar, congressman from -- a member of the january six investigation. congressman, thank you for joining us this evening. much to discuss. this draft executive order obtained by politico, would've directed the secretary of defense in the united states to seize voting machines. this is in line with proposals -- presented to trump in 2020. when you make of this revelation, do they have any leads into who drafted this document? >> well, these type of things are absolutely dangerous and scary, to think that the former administration had actually gone to the steps, and these lengths. i'm not going to talk about specific documents that we've received, but i will say, we've received hundreds of pages of documents from the archives. they're responsive to the supreme court decision, in which the former president lost, so, we continue to go over that production. what i can tell you is that, these documents will prove fruitful and helpful to aid in our investigation. -- leading up to january 6th it, will give us more insight into what we have already learned, through depositions, interviews, as well as public reporting and sourcing. this is incredibly helpful to our efforts, but it is dangerous and scary with the prior administration was planning. scary with ti often fall back o, what would you say if you saw this in another country? nbc news congressman have confirmed that the committee hasn't possession, all 700 plus paces of documents that trump tried to shield from your committee. how does your committee plan to scrutinize those documents, and will the plug to see them in short order? chairman bennie thompson suggested this week, that we might get to see them. >> well, it's some point, we're going to want to cite some of these in public hearings, as well as in a final report, that we produce. upon the conclusion of that, additional items may be made plug. what i can tell you, we do plan on turning the page from the investigative side of all that two more public hearings. that's where we will continue to share with the public exactly what we have learned, with the prior administration was doing to thwart and undercut a free and fair election, all of the efforts, and where they originated. in the white house, how they tried to use the department of justice. all of these efforts that we know, and that have been out in the public, and these documents -- will serve as the connective tissue to all of that. >> i think i can speak for a lot of viewers of the show when i say that there's a lot of those of us waiting to hear these hearings. congressman, turning to the fraudulent electors, you have called the submission of a fraudulent elector document a quote, dangerous precedent. the committee is looking into that. a coordinated effort by trump allies in at least five states. has the committee reached out to any of these -- if not, other plans to do so? >> we've had conversations with different states. elections officials, and we've had conversations with some of these -- individuals within these contested states, but i'm not going to talk about who we've interviewed and had discussions with. we are just focusing on the washington d.c. -- we have gone out into the state, having conversations that will be helpful in fruitful to our efforts. >> is it bizarre that in a week where the republicans rejected all of your voting rights bills in the senate, claiming that this is a democratic party federal takeover of elections. we're seeing the republican party at the state level -- the federal government, allegedly, trying to direct republicans to overturn states -- slates of electors, and take over their election machines. the irony is pretty rich. >> and the silence is deafening, from some of my republican colleagues to me. while they continue to talk about the efforts to expand the voting rights act, which by the way was passed in unanimous way 15 years ago, in the senate. those types of ironies aren't lost in a lot of us, who continue to stand for free and fair elections and wanting to see that everybody can has the ability to vote. in each of the states, all of the efforts in the laws that they continue to put in the way of people exercising this congressman your committee -- colleague adam. schiff has said that the committee has not made a decision in possibly submitting a bunker trump to testimony. have you heard back from ivanka trump? and how long will the committee wait for her response before issuing the subpoena? >> i am not aware of response from ivan called trump, like schiff said, we have not made any decisions yet. what we do know about interviews and public reporting is that, i ivanka trump was there in the room with the former president. a lot of this is happening. as well as, during the conversations when the former president called vice president pence and continue to pressure him up until the morning of january 6th. so she heard at least one side of that conversation. so we feel that she has something to share. we feel that will help aid in our efforts. if someone was truly concerned about protecting democracy they would come before our committee willingly and voluntarily. we have not heard anything from her today yet. >> i can say quite confidently without hearing, she's not here interested in saving democracy. congressman, and committee member of the jenner six investigation. thanks for being here. we appreciate it >> thank you. >> up later tonight, listening to your spouse is important. but what if your spouse is a conspiracy theorist who has lies about the january 6th -- and you are supreme court justice. what do you do that? more on that next. what do you do that? more on that next. san francisco was a beacon of hope for my family to reach the middle class, and i've been helping others ever since. when the pandemic hit bilal was right there, helping restaurant workers make ends meet. in the obama administration, bilal worked tirelessly on innovative policies. all right, what i am about to the status quo isn't working. bilal is the best shot we have for meaningful change. i'm bilal mahmood, and i know our city can become a beacon of hope once again. show you right now is a social medias chat by a prominence social activists right before the -- it shows hillary clinton, vice president kamala harris and -- apparently they are members of -- we do not actually know who those people are. as you can see, a pretty classic example of the antisemitic jewish -- to service some sort of puppet master to democratic politicians. quote, who is really running the democratic party? the soros family. here is another social media post from that same conservative active this from the morning of the january 6th insurrection. watch the maga crowd today, that's with right side broadcasting, and then ceased fight with the congress does. and on january 6th, the same conservative activists posted again, god bless each of you for standing up or praying! you might say, well this is the bacchus conspiracy-ism that we have to get used to. it's the kind of thing that might have been posted by mike flynn or -- named the killer man shaman. but it wasn't. it was not any of those people, all of that maga world nonsense was posted by jimmy thomas. the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas. for decades now, jimmie thomas has been active in the fringe here parts of the conservative movement. during the trump era, she launched it up a notch about -- mocking victims of school shootings, and of course making baseless claims about democrat stealing elections. now you might be thinking, so white? that all sounds naughty. lots of people post things on social media. that doesn't mean that the endorse will believe that as well. but -- last year the washington post first warned that genie was active in an online forum for. she only -- alongside trump lawyer and big promoter john eastman. imagine that. you are one of the few people in the american -- who continue to get the prestigious job of cooking for the supreme court justice, and the justices wife is breeding you for losing the election. she is also part of the investigation. in order for republicans to a tally eight for -- sits on the court we decisions about that very investigation. which is why no one should have been surprised when the supreme court issued its 8 to 1 ruling to handle over the documents to the -- and the one person who sided with trump on that was, drumroll, clarence thomas. what would you say if you saw this in another country? a judge in high court try to shield at disgraced former leader of being investigated for q, while the wife of the judge in tax the investigators and -- the first place? and what, if anything can be done about it here? joining us now is new york chief correspondent jane mayer, who -- is chimney thomas a threat to the supreme court? thank you for being here jane, in your fascinating brief it's a stunning -- you quote allow professor who says the appearance created by jenny and -- it looked like a political hack group, where she does the political staff and he does the judging. now people would say yeah, she's awful, she does crazy things which he should not help be held responsible. and why should she stop her activism because of her husband's job? what would you say to them? >> well, i understand the argument and a certainly don't think that wives should not be able to have separate -- from her their husbands. there's something important going on, and something that struck me when doing this reporting, which is that she is involved in substantial ways where groups and activists have businesses in her husband's court. she is not just taking a separate role -- >> i think we just lost jane mayer in the very interesting talk about chain -- she has done fast-tastic reporting about this. and jimmy thomas -- i'm just hearing we're not getting her back right now. we are going to take a break and check with our technical team if we can get her back. stay with us for more on this 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it's time to ask your doctor about kesimpta. we were just speaking with the new yorker's chief washington correspondent, jane, they are about how fascinating you look into the -- clarence thomas, in that piece she recounts. also it's of interesting moments, including from around the time of brett kavanaugh's confirmation hearings at that time. johnny thomas of private panel discussion, word she told a conservative crowd, deep state is serious and it's resisting president trump. she declared twice that are adversaries were trying to kill people, and you applause by saying may we all have guns, and concealed carry for what's coming. charming. joining us now is jane mayer, who wrote that piece. jane, great to have you back, we had a bit of a technical issue. you are telling us about the conflicts of interest involving some of the conservative groups that she leads, or sits on the boards of, and the cases that come before the courts involving those conservative groups. one of the shocking examples of stood out to me from your piece, in terms of conflict, is the muslim ban decision in 2018. not just because i was on myself, clarence thomas was one of the justices who up hilled trump's muslim ban, without revealing that genie was a paid consultant to one of the far-right groups that had submitted an amateurs brief in favor of the ban, saying islam needs to be confronted. he never revealed that. >> absolutely. she was paid a lot. over two years, it was about $234, 000, in order to represent frank gaffe needs group. he's the anti-muslim activist. he's admitted an ambitious brief to the court on the issue, and clarence thomas heard the case, nobody ever mention that she was being paid by one side in the case. if you look at clarence thomas's disclosures, you see absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever. the only way i found it was by having to look at the irs filings from the group that francophonie runs. there are rules, and they do apply to almost every judge in this country, that say, if your spouse have an interest in a case, you need to recuse. if a reasonable person -- an image of partiality, if it looks like the judge might have a conflict it can't be fair. he supposed to step down. that applies to only the lower courts, not the supreme court, because it holds itself above the ethics code that applies to the rest of the judges in this country. >> as you point out in your piece, sonia sotomayor, brett kavanaugh, stephen braille have all recuse themselves when friends or family have been in a case that came before the court. but clarence thomas is never done that for a case that involved a group linked to jeanne, his wife. were you surprised to see clarence thomas as the only justice to oppose releasing trump's records. just weeks after his wife was attacking the committee? >> to me, the issue is that it suggests that he's not judging issues fairly. he may be -- it raises questions, at least, about whether he's favoring his wife's political activism. i think, that's dangerous, as he said for himself, for the court. you really need the country to look at that incredibly court and cord, and trust is doing its best, whatever direction it comes from ideological, eta arrive a justice, and a fair decision. the problem with johnny thomas's activism is that it's almost impossible to see all the things that she's involved with, that are in front of the court, and not have some questions whether it taints his point of view. >> a lot of us have questions about why jimmy thomas was saying on january the 6th. she saying she put the social media vile -- we were all wondering when her views were on january the 6th. let me ask you this, what if anything can be done to fix this issue? you can't force a justice to recuse themselves, you can't forcibly remove them from the court. you can impeach them, but it's only been tried once and it didn't succeed. are there any rules that can shape be changed or anything that can be done? >> there actually is quite a bit that can be done. there have been some efforts. there are been several bills that have been proposed, in congress, to try to get the court to abide by age shoe digital code, an ethics code, like the lower courts. it's an issue that has a certain amount of traction. there is a lot of interest, even some bipartisan interest. there's also a good chance that after people have taken a close look at this financial issue, involving general thomas, that they may close some loopholes that have to do with disclosure. if the supreme court justices wife can be paid an unlimited amount of money by a secret client, of some sort, and it's not visible, that's a problem. >> that's an understatement. it's certainly a problem. it's a huge problem. it goes to the very heart of our justice system. jane mayer, we appreciate your reporting. chief or spin -- please do check out her latest piece on johnny thomas. thank you. >> thanks. >> now, to the headlines you may have seen this week about board of elections in lincoln county georgia, trying to close all but one of the county seven polling places. this wednesday, a group of activists handle liver to petition with 600 signatures, from locals, opposed to the change to the county board of elections. the board had been scheduled to vote that night, the board argues that a single problem place would be -- lead to better run elections, and would be more accessible. the activists argue that a single polling place would mean some county residents would have to drive more than 20 miles out of the way, just to put a ballot. they were supposed to vote on that wednesday night, but because of these petitions, the vote never happened. this may sound like a lot of stories you've heard before. democrat dick fighting their local officials for the right to vote. check this out. lincoln county is about 70% wind, and cast 68% of its votes for donald trump in 2020. these activists spent months going door to door collecting signatures to make sure that it doesn't get harder for anyone to vote. they are not partisan, big d democrats. they're small d democrats, supporting democracy and everyone. nationally, more than 1688 polling places have been shuttered, since the supreme court decision, shall be v, holder in 2013. that's when the supreme court gutted the -- 1688 places close. before that, georgia was one in nine states that was not allowed to changes election laws, in ways that would negatively impact minority voters ability to cast a ballot without federal approval. in georgia specifically, 10% of all polling locations have been closed across the state, since that supreme court decision. just last year, -- past major new restrictive voting laws that made it harder to vote absentee, or would drop boxes. making physical polling places all the more important. which is part of why, with this group data so interested. they fought back in a way that worked. legally, in georgia, if you can get 20% of the registered voters in a voting district to sign a petition opposing the closing of a polling place, a must stay open. this group of activists gathered enough signatures to meet that threshold for three of lincoln county seven polling places. the board of elections is still verifying those signatures, but as for now, they have successfully deliver the vote on this issue. and may very well have saved them from being consolidated. joining us now, reverend denise freeman. lincoln county minister an activist who is key leader in the signature drive, that succeeded in putting the plan to rollback the number of polling sites on hold. reverend, thank you for being here. can you help us understand logistically, practically, would it would mean for the residents of lincoln county to go from seven polling places, to one? describe that challenge for us. >> we are a very long county. for instance, i live in the northern end of the county, which would be about 26 to 30 minutes just for the people on this and to go and vote into the new proposed precinct. that is unfair to all of our residents in the northern and, when we currently voted midway, which is about eight or nine minutes from where we live. i don't understand why they would put this kind of situation, when there is no legitimate reason to close any precincts, in 2022. we should be affording people more access to the voting process, not decreasing it. -- that's exactly would happened. with senate bill two 82, into 83, it's like the people who are empower want to secure their power and control, by making it harder for people to access the voting precincts. that is just not fair, nor is it right. we have to do everything we can to stop this. we have, and we hope this works. that's our prayer. >> in terms of trying to stop, it a lot of the media coverage around this made it out to be an issue for democrats. from the local level, less partisan than that. are the republicans in your community who don't want these polling places to close? >> yes. we've heard from citizens of both parties, even sums on the petitions. they-to-one access in their own communities. they want to keep their polling places open people in this community do not work in this community. or as people who work in athens, georgia, augusta georgia, and south carolina, because there's no jobs in lincoln tin, or lincoln county georgia. by the time to make it back to this county, to vote, they can get to their local polls. but, to drive one additional 12:15 miles just a vote in one precinct, in the city of lincoln ten, it is just unreal. it's an fear. it's not right. >> we spoke with the board of elections today, they believe this petition wasn't necessary. they said they held public hearings on it. they sent letters every household, and didn't hear opposition. it's on a partisan issue. there are democrats involved in closing down these polling places. what do you make of these responses? >> the first thing, they did not send notification to every voter in the county. what they did was send letters to every property owner in the county. we have people that own property in several other states across the united states. i myself did not get a letter. i have talked to many, many citizens of this county, black, white, republican, democrat, who say they didn't get letters either. you know, this is not a partisan issue, this is a human issue. this is a issue that everyone should be afforded the luxury of voting. >> well said. we appreciate you coming on the show to talk about this issue. reverend denise freeman, will have to leave it there. thank you for your time. >> thank you for having me. god bless you. >> more to come here. including a blatant display of the for a public in democracy, and some high stakes diplomacy from america's top diplomat today. trying to head off what could become the biggest land or in europe since world war ii. stay with us. world war ii. stay you can get a car from any company, but none will make a difference like subaru. you. (bonnie) thank you. (robert) thank you. subaru. more than a car company. ♪ got my hair ♪ ♪ got my head ♪ ♪ got my brains ♪ ♪ got my ears ♪ ♪ got my heart ♪ ♪ got my soul ♪ ♪ got my mouth ♪ ♪ i got life ♪ let's keep talking. you could be working with someone outside your company and wait for back and forth e-mail, or a call to be rescheduled for the third time. orrr... you could use slack. and work faster with everyone you work with, together in one place. slack. where the future works. that keeps to be the take care talk about the dip luck him magic talks between russia and ukraine at the border. secretary of state blinken, and -- held a 90 minute meeting in geneva, with no clear path forward. any invasion of ukraine would be met with a swift response, while they denied that the massive response on ukraine's border was invasion. okay then. they rollbacks between -- and not make ukraine a member of the alliance. blinken said today that russia will respond to the -- next week. but in the meantime they would keep talking. the claims from the ukrainians sir -- artillery units into rubble healthier tony's in eastern ukraine. the u.s. has responded to russia's buildup by making estonia, latvia, and -- for sending weapons to ukraine. and out night we're sending the first images of that lethal -- the shipment includes close to 200,000 of legal eight, from -- in the defenders of ukraine. efforts to reach a bit but magic breakthrough continued, but today we got a glimpse of what would happen if that fails. the foreign affairs is titled the day after the russia attacks. the war in ukraine would look like and how russia should respond -- this will become significantly more challenging for u.s. national security, washington seemed to issue the worst in leveraging all the power to protect u.s. interests the biden administration must maintain delicate balance in what is coming with russia, or punishing russia for this harsh new reality. right now what is more important? right now is the coal ed author of that, russian -- he is also a review of the bestseller, called here, right matters. and he is a board member of the new democracy initiative thank you for joining me tonight. a lot of people say that biden has unprecedented sanctions against putin and it won't work as a deterrent. sanctions are not good enough your latest piece says that that is not necessarily the case. please explain why. >> actually, i don't think the sanctions are necessarily going to be a sufficient journey. the matter is that the reactionary affects after russia's incursion, but even then there's probably deliberation, right now a diplomatic efforts underway with our allies is to make sure that we are on the same page and most of the sanctions will be consistent between the alliance structure. but by itself, it's not gonna be sufficient. the russian and the massive 600 million dollar -- it's going to take some diplomacy on the part of the u.s.. the posturing of the u.s. forces is going up to determine -- and the provision of additional lethal eight, and even then it's probably too late to have a significant effect. i think we are all locked in on this conflict. >> so on this piece, you also paint that dark and stormy picture of what's the effects of ukraine would look like. it would inflict thousands of casualties, and humane catastrophe. given that scenario, is the u.s. provisions good in that scenario what would you say from -- which let's be honest it won't. and getting putin to back off of a full blown war is it worth it to prevent, quote, a humanitary controversy. >> i think that there is -- but i don't think that even the fact that the u.s. says that you can cannot join nato is not gonna be sufficient. it does change the dynamic of what's going on between russia and ukraine. they continue to lose progress on you -- and continues to lose progress on integration. continues to -- on that basis, that is why vladimir putin's acting. i think there is something to be said about this idea of whether the u.s. can unilaterally make this decision. many really many many decades of idea that they can determine their own path. it's because of this self determination there have been numerous agreements including the charter that says that they should be able to -- weather nato joins a different story. i think that is just a symbol. if we say that they cannot join, it is a symbol that there is a -- in the ukraine. >> so you are saying the sanctions won't necessarily work. offering knoll -- of the ukraine won't work. joe biden says that there is no american troops. where does that leave us? >> it leaves us with very few options. i think that the notion is that this is not the opportunity that vladimir putin wants when he started to build up these forces. and those start off by really lacking in this idea of very very severe consequence. this is -- by senator menendez that is wide ranging. it covers sanctions, it covers provisions of the military, it even covers -- that the ukrainians can require. much more high-end acquirement. those types of things legislated bipartisan support, are helpful. there could be more regarding the u.s. ukrainians to protect themselves. those will change, and the margins will change russian calculus. there's something in regards to force pasture. -- by refugees. our allies are going to guarantee them some security, and clear indications of -- in all these things together, may have an effect. it's closing this idea of -- >> we are out of time, but one thing i would like to see happen, god forbid, is all the western countries who claims to care so much about their lives will be open their borders to these refugees? and retired army colonel, will leave it at that. thank you so much for your knowledge. >> we have just one more story to get to tonight and the sheer republican hypocrisy may shock you. or it may not. either way, you need to hear this. stay with us. either way, you need to hear was a bit of a buzz kill, right? so she ordered sunglasses with prime, one day delivery. ♪♪ clever girl. this stay with us once you get to know her. eugh. as if. ♪♪ well, he was asking for it. prime changes everything. it's been nearly two years since the pandemic started. our students and teachers tried their best, but as a parent, i can tell you that nearly 18 months of remote learning was really hard. i'm so angry that instead of helping our kids get back in the classroom, the school board we talk a lot about focused on renaming schools schools that weren't even open . please recall all three school board members now. for the sake of our kids, we can't wait one more day, never mind a whole year for a fresh start. unprecedented political times on the show. but sometimes -- a reliable and extremely says ever. here's a statement from republican, actually hint said. this landmark investment will be game changing for iowans -- she's talking about 829 million dollar federal investment from the partisan infrastructure package that passed late last year. that's why i helped lead a bipartisan group of my colleagues in urging the administration to prioritize it. there is only one problem with this statement, and you will be shocked to hear it. she voted against the bipartisan infrastructure package. and she was loudly, and -- against it. it calls the bill the biggest leap toward socialism this bill is ever saying. it takes the marxist ideology that only existed in textbooks and makes a lot of the united states. so which one is it? is it marxism come to live or a game changing -- for iowans. this woman, put out a statement pledging a 4 million-dollar statement because of the biden's bill. she calls it a great day for fort worth, and says it will make it stronger. but she also voted against the bill. and she put out a pressure release calling it a radical spending bill on republicans wish list. -- they voted against. alabama congressman gary palmer was in fact first, in credit for a chunk of the bill that would benefit his home's state the day biden's -- and now as we start to see the project in the bill go from lines of text to actually broken ground in construction, we see a lot more of this hypocrisy. so the next time you see a congress person taking credit for a big piece of infrastructure, especially if they are republican, it might be wise to just check how they voted. i'm just saying. that does it for us tonight. rachel, you will be delighted to hear, will be back on monday. and i hope to see you on sunday night for my show. the mehdi hasan show on -- at weeknights on 7 pm on peacock. now jonathan kaye pac is in for lawrence tonight, good evening jonathan. >> good evening. >> i'm just saying you did a great job for your debut at 9:00. >> it's very good jonathan. it's good to have some hypocrisy to point to on my way out. >> many, enjoy the rest of your friday night. >> thank you. >> tonight, the full scope of the republican efforts tonight, -- attempted to block the national archives from handing over. it's not c

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Transcripts For MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240709 : Comparemela.com

Transcripts For MSNBC The Rachel Maddow Show 20240709

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raffensperger, a republican and his wife. -- joe biden's win. weeks after the first report, the justice department announced he was launching a special task force, dedicated to threats against election workers, saying, quote a threat to any election official, worker, or volunteer is a threat to democracy. well, it is been almost six months since that task force was bounced. today, if for charges. a texas man was indicted, today, for threatening election and government officials in georgia. indictment does not name the official, we're following them as officials a, b and c. -- on january the 5th, last, year titled, georgia patriot this time to kill official a, the chinese agent, $10,000. i guess the $10,000 was what he was offering to pay to have that official killed. he then goes on to talk about putting bullets in three georgia officials. calling them treasonous traitors. as i said, we do not know who the election officials are that this guy threatened, as for the weird stuff about one georgia election official being a chinese agent, obviously, there were all kinds of conspiracy theories, being pushed by -- tampering with the vote count. i will also mention, just a few days before this threat was posted, then president trump accused georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger, of hiding all the election fraud, because his brother works for china. a conspiracy theory that managed to gain traction, despite the fact that not only did brad raffensperger not have a brother who works for china, he doesn't even have a brother. this guy in texas has been charged for these threats, the first case from the justice department task force, to combat threats against election workers. it's a start. you know, is strangely fitting that the first charge for threatening election officials should come out of georgia. georgia really has been ground zero for harassment of election workers, because it's been ground zero for donald trump's campaign to overturn the 2020 election, and undermine the new administration of elections, for the next time around. this guy in texas didn't wake up one morning and decide he wanted to randomly threatened to kill election officials, in georgia. sorry, he did not think of it on his own. a pressure campaign against elections officials has consequences. consequences, that were warned about all the way back in december 2020, by georgia's top elections administrator, a republican. you may remember this moment. >> i'm going to do my best to keep it together, because it has all gone too far. all of it. the straw that broke the camel's back today, this 20-year-old contract for a voting system company, just trying to do his job. his family is getting harassed no, there's a news out there with his name on it. it's not right. this kid took a job, he just took a job -- i can begin to explain the level of anger i have about this. every american, every georgian, every republican, democrat, should have the same level of anger. mister president, it looks like you likely lost the -- war investigating, there's always a possibility, i get, it you have the right to go for the courts. would you don't have the ability to do, and you need to step up and say, this stop inspiring people to give potential acts of violence. somebody is going to get, hurts and he's going to get. shots and he's going to get killed. it's not right. >> it was clear. all the way back in december 2020, that the campaign of pressure and harassment against election officials by donald trump and his allies, was producing a campaign of threats and harassment against elections officials. elections workers ineffectual's in georgia, and across the country, are being terrorized. they're leaving their jobs in droves. we are reminded this week, it's not just those threats that are being investigated, trump's pressure campaign itself, is very much under criminal investigation. the district attorney in fulton county, georgia, this moved -- in her investigation into trump's attempts to mess with the election in georgia. that investigation sent us on that infamous phone call -- pressuring him to find more votes. if that special grand jury is approved, it will be able to issue subpoenas for testimony and evidence. it wasn't just that george a case, potentially taking that big lead forward, this week. this may have been the worst week of legal developments for donald trump, his family, and his allies, since he left office. this week also brought new allegations from new york's attorney general, of possible fraud at trump's business. a filing this week lays out the most detailed accusations yet, of potentially fraudulent business practices of the trump organization. as eternally general, letitia james, -- from trump, his son don jr., and his daughter ivanka, suggesting that early years long investigation, maybe nearing its end. the january six investigation, this week, asked for testimony from ivanka. trump in a letter that was laid out in stunning detail, how much the committee has learned about what was going on inside the oval office, as rioters ransacked the capitol. plus, how little trump did to stop the violence, even those around him, begged him to intervene. there were also damning developments on the fake electors scheme. this was a scheme in which republicans in states joe biden won, created inside certificates a certain that trump and won their state. they sent these fake slates of electors to congress. there were multiple reports, this week, that this plot was pushed by the trump campaign. specifically by, who else, rudy giuliani. that comes as officials in multiple states, this week, -- related to that scheme. suggesting that there could alternately beach criminal charges for those involved, for forgery or other related crimes. one democratic congressman for wisconsin asked merrick garland to look into the matter. speaking of rudy giuliani, there is news just tonight, that thousands of his communications have been turned over to federal prosecutors in new york, who are investigating giuliani's dealings in ukraine. i know, it's hard to keep up. all of that doesn't even cover what might be donald trump's biggest, lost the supreme court's refusal to block the national archives from handing over hundreds of pages from trump's records to the january six investigation. trump had been fighting it for months, but those -- oh boy. the first document that we've gotten a look at is a doozy. it is a draft executive order, turned over from the files of a white house lawyer, that would've ordered the defense secretary to seize voting machines. this never issued executive order says the defense undersecretary must sees all -- all of them, were infiltrated by foreign powers, who change on the vote totals, and made it just seem like trump lost. which is of course stunning, but also, can i just say, at the end of a week in which rico publicans have been hammering them -- calling it a federal takeover of elections, here is evidence from donald trump considering an actual federal takeover of elections, and election machines. look, to be clear, a lot of this draft executive order is labored in language -- like an actual presidential executive order. betsy woodruff swan points out, the opening of this document sites -- including, a classified document that is not previously been reported on, which may suggest that somebody involved in drafting the document had access to this to sensitive government information. that said, we do not know who drafted, nor how seriously it was considered. what has been previously reported, that some proposal like this was debated in the oval office on december the 18th, 2020. this document is dated the 16th of december. this is only the first trump white house record we've seen that has been turned over to the january six investigation. what on earth -- would also they going to turn up? joining us now, congressman pete aguilar, congressman from -- a member of the january six investigation. congressman, thank you for joining us this evening. much to discuss. this draft executive order obtained by politico, would've directed the secretary of defense in the united states to seize voting machines. this is in line with proposals -- presented to trump in 2020. when you make of this revelation, do they have any leads into who drafted this document? >> well, these type of things are absolutely dangerous and scary, to think that the former administration had actually gone to the steps, and these lengths. i'm not going to talk about specific documents that we've received, but i will say, we've received hundreds of pages of documents from the archives. they're responsive to the supreme court decision, in which the former president lost, so, we continue to go over that production. what i can tell you is that, these documents will prove fruitful and helpful to aid in our investigation. -- leading up to january 6th it, will give us more insight into what we have already learned, through depositions, interviews, as well as public reporting and sourcing. this is incredibly helpful to our efforts, but it is dangerous and scary with the prior administration was planning. scary with ti often fall back o, what would you say if you saw this in another country? nbc news congressman have confirmed that the committee hasn't possession, all 700 plus paces of documents that trump tried to shield from your committee. how does your committee plan to scrutinize those documents, and will the plug to see them in short order? chairman bennie thompson suggested this week, that we might get to see them. >> well, it's some point, we're going to want to cite some of these in public hearings, as well as in a final report, that we produce. upon the conclusion of that, additional items may be made plug. what i can tell you, we do plan on turning the page from the investigative side of all that two more public hearings. that's where we will continue to share with the public exactly what we have learned, with the prior administration was doing to thwart and undercut a free and fair election, all of the efforts, and where they originated. in the white house, how they tried to use the department of justice. all of these efforts that we know, and that have been out in the public, and these documents -- will serve as the connective tissue to all of that. >> i think i can speak for a lot of viewers of the show when i say that there's a lot of those of us waiting to hear these hearings. congressman, turning to the fraudulent electors, you have called the submission of a fraudulent elector document a quote, dangerous precedent. the committee is looking into that. a coordinated effort by trump allies in at least five states. has the committee reached out to any of these -- if not, other plans to do so? >> we've had conversations with different states. elections officials, and we've had conversations with some of these -- individuals within these contested states, but i'm not going to talk about who we've interviewed and had discussions with. we are just focusing on the washington d.c. -- we have gone out into the state, having conversations that will be helpful in fruitful to our efforts. >> is it bizarre that in a week where the republicans rejected all of your voting rights bills in the senate, claiming that this is a democratic party federal takeover of elections. we're seeing the republican party at the state level -- the federal government, allegedly, trying to direct republicans to overturn states -- slates of electors, and take over their election machines. the irony is pretty rich. >> and the silence is deafening, from some of my republican colleagues to me. while they continue to talk about the efforts to expand the voting rights act, which by the way was passed in unanimous way 15 years ago, in the senate. those types of ironies aren't lost in a lot of us, who continue to stand for free and fair elections and wanting to see that everybody can has the ability to vote. in each of the states, all of the efforts in the laws that they continue to put in the way of people exercising this congressman your committee -- colleague adam. schiff has said that the committee has not made a decision in possibly submitting a bunker trump to testimony. have you heard back from ivanka trump? and how long will the committee wait for her response before issuing the subpoena? >> i am not aware of response from ivan called trump, like schiff said, we have not made any decisions yet. what we do know about interviews and public reporting is that, i ivanka trump was there in the room with the former president. a lot of this is happening. as well as, during the conversations when the former president called vice president pence and continue to pressure him up until the morning of january 6th. so she heard at least one side of that conversation. so we feel that she has something to share. we feel that will help aid in our efforts. if someone was truly concerned about protecting democracy they would come before our committee willingly and voluntarily. we have not heard anything from her today yet. >> i can say quite confidently without hearing, she's not here interested in saving democracy. congressman, and committee member of the jenner six investigation. thanks for being here. we appreciate it >> thank you. >> up later tonight, listening to your spouse is important. but what if your spouse is a conspiracy theorist who has lies about the january 6th -- and you are supreme court justice. what do you do that? more on that next. what do you do that? more on that next. san francisco was a beacon of hope for my family to reach the middle class, and i've been helping others ever since. when the pandemic hit bilal was right there, helping restaurant workers make ends meet. in the obama administration, bilal worked tirelessly on innovative policies. all right, what i am about to the status quo isn't working. bilal is the best shot we have for meaningful change. i'm bilal mahmood, and i know our city can become a beacon of hope once again. show you right now is a social medias chat by a prominence social activists right before the -- it shows hillary clinton, vice president kamala harris and -- apparently they are members of -- we do not actually know who those people are. as you can see, a pretty classic example of the antisemitic jewish -- to service some sort of puppet master to democratic politicians. quote, who is really running the democratic party? the soros family. here is another social media post from that same conservative active this from the morning of the january 6th insurrection. watch the maga crowd today, that's with right side broadcasting, and then ceased fight with the congress does. and on january 6th, the same conservative activists posted again, god bless each of you for standing up or praying! you might say, well this is the bacchus conspiracy-ism that we have to get used to. it's the kind of thing that might have been posted by mike flynn or -- named the killer man shaman. but it wasn't. it was not any of those people, all of that maga world nonsense was posted by jimmy thomas. the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas. for decades now, jimmie thomas has been active in the fringe here parts of the conservative movement. during the trump era, she launched it up a notch about -- mocking victims of school shootings, and of course making baseless claims about democrat stealing elections. now you might be thinking, so white? that all sounds naughty. lots of people post things on social media. that doesn't mean that the endorse will believe that as well. but -- last year the washington post first warned that genie was active in an online forum for. she only -- alongside trump lawyer and big promoter john eastman. imagine that. you are one of the few people in the american -- who continue to get the prestigious job of cooking for the supreme court justice, and the justices wife is breeding you for losing the election. she is also part of the investigation. in order for republicans to a tally eight for -- sits on the court we decisions about that very investigation. which is why no one should have been surprised when the supreme court issued its 8 to 1 ruling to handle over the documents to the -- and the one person who sided with trump on that was, drumroll, clarence thomas. what would you say if you saw this in another country? a judge in high court try to shield at disgraced former leader of being investigated for q, while the wife of the judge in tax the investigators and -- the first place? and what, if anything can be done about it here? joining us now is new york chief correspondent jane mayer, who -- is chimney thomas a threat to the supreme court? thank you for being here jane, in your fascinating brief it's a stunning -- you quote allow professor who says the appearance created by jenny and -- it looked like a political hack group, where she does the political staff and he does the judging. now people would say yeah, she's awful, she does crazy things which he should not help be held responsible. and why should she stop her activism because of her husband's job? what would you say to them? >> well, i understand the argument and a certainly don't think that wives should not be able to have separate -- from her their husbands. there's something important going on, and something that struck me when doing this reporting, which is that she is involved in substantial ways where groups and activists have businesses in her husband's court. she is not just taking a separate role -- >> i think we just lost jane mayer in the very interesting talk about chain -- she has done fast-tastic reporting about this. and jimmy thomas -- i'm just hearing we're not getting her back right now. we are going to take a break and check with our technical team if we can get her back. stay with us for more on this 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it's time to ask your doctor about kesimpta. we were just speaking with the new yorker's chief washington correspondent, jane, they are about how fascinating you look into the -- clarence thomas, in that piece she recounts. also it's of interesting moments, including from around the time of brett kavanaugh's confirmation hearings at that time. johnny thomas of private panel discussion, word she told a conservative crowd, deep state is serious and it's resisting president trump. she declared twice that are adversaries were trying to kill people, and you applause by saying may we all have guns, and concealed carry for what's coming. charming. joining us now is jane mayer, who wrote that piece. jane, great to have you back, we had a bit of a technical issue. you are telling us about the conflicts of interest involving some of the conservative groups that she leads, or sits on the boards of, and the cases that come before the courts involving those conservative groups. one of the shocking examples of stood out to me from your piece, in terms of conflict, is the muslim ban decision in 2018. not just because i was on myself, clarence thomas was one of the justices who up hilled trump's muslim ban, without revealing that genie was a paid consultant to one of the far-right groups that had submitted an amateurs brief in favor of the ban, saying islam needs to be confronted. he never revealed that. >> absolutely. she was paid a lot. over two years, it was about $234, 000, in order to represent frank gaffe needs group. he's the anti-muslim activist. he's admitted an ambitious brief to the court on the issue, and clarence thomas heard the case, nobody ever mention that she was being paid by one side in the case. if you look at clarence thomas's disclosures, you see absolutely no evidence of this whatsoever. the only way i found it was by having to look at the irs filings from the group that francophonie runs. there are rules, and they do apply to almost every judge in this country, that say, if your spouse have an interest in a case, you need to recuse. if a reasonable person -- an image of partiality, if it looks like the judge might have a conflict it can't be fair. he supposed to step down. that applies to only the lower courts, not the supreme court, because it holds itself above the ethics code that applies to the rest of the judges in this country. >> as you point out in your piece, sonia sotomayor, brett kavanaugh, stephen braille have all recuse themselves when friends or family have been in a case that came before the court. but clarence thomas is never done that for a case that involved a group linked to jeanne, his wife. were you surprised to see clarence thomas as the only justice to oppose releasing trump's records. just weeks after his wife was attacking the committee? >> to me, the issue is that it suggests that he's not judging issues fairly. he may be -- it raises questions, at least, about whether he's favoring his wife's political activism. i think, that's dangerous, as he said for himself, for the court. you really need the country to look at that incredibly court and cord, and trust is doing its best, whatever direction it comes from ideological, eta arrive a justice, and a fair decision. the problem with johnny thomas's activism is that it's almost impossible to see all the things that she's involved with, that are in front of the court, and not have some questions whether it taints his point of view. >> a lot of us have questions about why jimmy thomas was saying on january the 6th. she saying she put the social media vile -- we were all wondering when her views were on january the 6th. let me ask you this, what if anything can be done to fix this issue? you can't force a justice to recuse themselves, you can't forcibly remove them from the court. you can impeach them, but it's only been tried once and it didn't succeed. are there any rules that can shape be changed or anything that can be done? >> there actually is quite a bit that can be done. there have been some efforts. there are been several bills that have been proposed, in congress, to try to get the court to abide by age shoe digital code, an ethics code, like the lower courts. it's an issue that has a certain amount of traction. there is a lot of interest, even some bipartisan interest. there's also a good chance that after people have taken a close look at this financial issue, involving general thomas, that they may close some loopholes that have to do with disclosure. if the supreme court justices wife can be paid an unlimited amount of money by a secret client, of some sort, and it's not visible, that's a problem. >> that's an understatement. it's certainly a problem. it's a huge problem. it goes to the very heart of our justice system. jane mayer, we appreciate your reporting. chief or spin -- please do check out her latest piece on johnny thomas. thank you. >> thanks. >> now, to the headlines you may have seen this week about board of elections in lincoln county georgia, trying to close all but one of the county seven polling places. this wednesday, a group of activists handle liver to petition with 600 signatures, from locals, opposed to the change to the county board of elections. the board had been scheduled to vote that night, the board argues that a single problem place would be -- lead to better run elections, and would be more accessible. the activists argue that a single polling place would mean some county residents would have to drive more than 20 miles out of the way, just to put a ballot. they were supposed to vote on that wednesday night, but because of these petitions, the vote never happened. this may sound like a lot of stories you've heard before. democrat dick fighting their local officials for the right to vote. check this out. lincoln county is about 70% wind, and cast 68% of its votes for donald trump in 2020. these activists spent months going door to door collecting signatures to make sure that it doesn't get harder for anyone to vote. they are not partisan, big d democrats. they're small d democrats, supporting democracy and everyone. nationally, more than 1688 polling places have been shuttered, since the supreme court decision, shall be v, holder in 2013. that's when the supreme court gutted the -- 1688 places close. before that, georgia was one in nine states that was not allowed to changes election laws, in ways that would negatively impact minority voters ability to cast a ballot without federal approval. in georgia specifically, 10% of all polling locations have been closed across the state, since that supreme court decision. just last year, -- past major new restrictive voting laws that made it harder to vote absentee, or would drop boxes. making physical polling places all the more important. which is part of why, with this group data so interested. they fought back in a way that worked. legally, in georgia, if you can get 20% of the registered voters in a voting district to sign a petition opposing the closing of a polling place, a must stay open. this group of activists gathered enough signatures to meet that threshold for three of lincoln county seven polling places. the board of elections is still verifying those signatures, but as for now, they have successfully deliver the vote on this issue. and may very well have saved them from being consolidated. joining us now, reverend denise freeman. lincoln county minister an activist who is key leader in the signature drive, that succeeded in putting the plan to rollback the number of polling sites on hold. reverend, thank you for being here. can you help us understand logistically, practically, would it would mean for the residents of lincoln county to go from seven polling places, to one? describe that challenge for us. >> we are a very long county. for instance, i live in the northern end of the county, which would be about 26 to 30 minutes just for the people on this and to go and vote into the new proposed precinct. that is unfair to all of our residents in the northern and, when we currently voted midway, which is about eight or nine minutes from where we live. i don't understand why they would put this kind of situation, when there is no legitimate reason to close any precincts, in 2022. we should be affording people more access to the voting process, not decreasing it. -- that's exactly would happened. with senate bill two 82, into 83, it's like the people who are empower want to secure their power and control, by making it harder for people to access the voting precincts. that is just not fair, nor is it right. we have to do everything we can to stop this. we have, and we hope this works. that's our prayer. >> in terms of trying to stop, it a lot of the media coverage around this made it out to be an issue for democrats. from the local level, less partisan than that. are the republicans in your community who don't want these polling places to close? >> yes. we've heard from citizens of both parties, even sums on the petitions. they-to-one access in their own communities. they want to keep their polling places open people in this community do not work in this community. or as people who work in athens, georgia, augusta georgia, and south carolina, because there's no jobs in lincoln tin, or lincoln county georgia. by the time to make it back to this county, to vote, they can get to their local polls. but, to drive one additional 12:15 miles just a vote in one precinct, in the city of lincoln ten, it is just unreal. it's an fear. it's not right. >> we spoke with the board of elections today, they believe this petition wasn't necessary. they said they held public hearings on it. they sent letters every household, and didn't hear opposition. it's on a partisan issue. there are democrats involved in closing down these polling places. what do you make of these responses? >> the first thing, they did not send notification to every voter in the county. what they did was send letters to every property owner in the county. we have people that own property in several other states across the united states. i myself did not get a letter. i have talked to many, many citizens of this county, black, white, republican, democrat, who say they didn't get letters either. you know, this is not a partisan issue, this is a human issue. this is a issue that everyone should be afforded the luxury of voting. >> well said. we appreciate you coming on the show to talk about this issue. reverend denise freeman, will have to leave it there. thank you for your time. >> thank you for having me. god bless you. >> more to come here. including a blatant display of the for a public in democracy, and some high stakes diplomacy from america's top diplomat today. trying to head off what could become the biggest land or in europe since world war ii. stay with us. world war ii. stay you can get a car from any company, but none will make a difference like subaru. you. (bonnie) thank you. (robert) thank you. subaru. more than a car company. ♪ got my hair ♪ ♪ got my head ♪ ♪ got my brains ♪ ♪ got my ears ♪ ♪ got my heart ♪ ♪ got my soul ♪ ♪ got my mouth ♪ ♪ i got life ♪ let's keep talking. you could be working with someone outside your company and wait for back and forth e-mail, or a call to be rescheduled for the third time. orrr... you could use slack. and work faster with everyone you work with, together in one place. slack. where the future works. that keeps to be the take care talk about the dip luck him magic talks between russia and ukraine at the border. secretary of state blinken, and -- held a 90 minute meeting in geneva, with no clear path forward. any invasion of ukraine would be met with a swift response, while they denied that the massive response on ukraine's border was invasion. okay then. they rollbacks between -- and not make ukraine a member of the alliance. blinken said today that russia will respond to the -- next week. but in the meantime they would keep talking. the claims from the ukrainians sir -- artillery units into rubble healthier tony's in eastern ukraine. the u.s. has responded to russia's buildup by making estonia, latvia, and -- for sending weapons to ukraine. and out night we're sending the first images of that lethal -- the shipment includes close to 200,000 of legal eight, from -- in the defenders of ukraine. efforts to reach a bit but magic breakthrough continued, but today we got a glimpse of what would happen if that fails. the foreign affairs is titled the day after the russia attacks. the war in ukraine would look like and how russia should respond -- this will become significantly more challenging for u.s. national security, washington seemed to issue the worst in leveraging all the power to protect u.s. interests the biden administration must maintain delicate balance in what is coming with russia, or punishing russia for this harsh new reality. right now what is more important? right now is the coal ed author of that, russian -- he is also a review of the bestseller, called here, right matters. and he is a board member of the new democracy initiative thank you for joining me tonight. a lot of people say that biden has unprecedented sanctions against putin and it won't work as a deterrent. sanctions are not good enough your latest piece says that that is not necessarily the case. please explain why. >> actually, i don't think the sanctions are necessarily going to be a sufficient journey. the matter is that the reactionary affects after russia's incursion, but even then there's probably deliberation, right now a diplomatic efforts underway with our allies is to make sure that we are on the same page and most of the sanctions will be consistent between the alliance structure. but by itself, it's not gonna be sufficient. the russian and the massive 600 million dollar -- it's going to take some diplomacy on the part of the u.s.. the posturing of the u.s. forces is going up to determine -- and the provision of additional lethal eight, and even then it's probably too late to have a significant effect. i think we are all locked in on this conflict. >> so on this piece, you also paint that dark and stormy picture of what's the effects of ukraine would look like. it would inflict thousands of casualties, and humane catastrophe. given that scenario, is the u.s. provisions good in that scenario what would you say from -- which let's be honest it won't. and getting putin to back off of a full blown war is it worth it to prevent, quote, a humanitary controversy. >> i think that there is -- but i don't think that even the fact that the u.s. says that you can cannot join nato is not gonna be sufficient. it does change the dynamic of what's going on between russia and ukraine. they continue to lose progress on you -- and continues to lose progress on integration. continues to -- on that basis, that is why vladimir putin's acting. i think there is something to be said about this idea of whether the u.s. can unilaterally make this decision. many really many many decades of idea that they can determine their own path. it's because of this self determination there have been numerous agreements including the charter that says that they should be able to -- weather nato joins a different story. i think that is just a symbol. if we say that they cannot join, it is a symbol that there is a -- in the ukraine. >> so you are saying the sanctions won't necessarily work. offering knoll -- of the ukraine won't work. joe biden says that there is no american troops. where does that leave us? >> it leaves us with very few options. i think that the notion is that this is not the opportunity that vladimir putin wants when he started to build up these forces. and those start off by really lacking in this idea of very very severe consequence. this is -- by senator menendez that is wide ranging. it covers sanctions, it covers provisions of the military, it even covers -- that the ukrainians can require. much more high-end acquirement. those types of things legislated bipartisan support, are helpful. there could be more regarding the u.s. ukrainians to protect themselves. those will change, and the margins will change russian calculus. there's something in regards to force pasture. -- by refugees. our allies are going to guarantee them some security, and clear indications of -- in all these things together, may have an effect. it's closing this idea of -- >> we are out of time, but one thing i would like to see happen, god forbid, is all the western countries who claims to care so much about their lives will be open their borders to these refugees? and retired army colonel, will leave it at that. thank you so much for your knowledge. >> we have just one more story to get to tonight and the sheer republican hypocrisy may shock you. or it may not. either way, you need to hear this. stay with us. either way, you need to hear was a bit of a buzz kill, right? so she ordered sunglasses with prime, one day delivery. ♪♪ clever girl. this stay with us once you get to know her. eugh. as if. ♪♪ well, he was asking for it. prime changes everything. it's been nearly two years since the pandemic started. our students and teachers tried their best, but as a parent, i can tell you that nearly 18 months of remote learning was really hard. i'm so angry that instead of helping our kids get back in the classroom, the school board we talk a lot about focused on renaming schools schools that weren't even open . please recall all three school board members now. for the sake of our kids, we can't wait one more day, never mind a whole year for a fresh start. unprecedented political times on the show. but sometimes -- a reliable and extremely says ever. here's a statement from republican, actually hint said. this landmark investment will be game changing for iowans -- she's talking about 829 million dollar federal investment from the partisan infrastructure package that passed late last year. that's why i helped lead a bipartisan group of my colleagues in urging the administration to prioritize it. there is only one problem with this statement, and you will be shocked to hear it. she voted against the bipartisan infrastructure package. and she was loudly, and -- against it. it calls the bill the biggest leap toward socialism this bill is ever saying. it takes the marxist ideology that only existed in textbooks and makes a lot of the united states. so which one is it? is it marxism come to live or a game changing -- for iowans. this woman, put out a statement pledging a 4 million-dollar statement because of the biden's bill. she calls it a great day for fort worth, and says it will make it stronger. but she also voted against the bill. and she put out a pressure release calling it a radical spending bill on republicans wish list. -- they voted against. alabama congressman gary palmer was in fact first, in credit for a chunk of the bill that would benefit his home's state the day biden's -- and now as we start to see the project in the bill go from lines of text to actually broken ground in construction, we see a lot more of this hypocrisy. so the next time you see a congress person taking credit for a big piece of infrastructure, especially if they are republican, it might be wise to just check how they voted. i'm just saying. that does it for us tonight. rachel, you will be delighted to hear, will be back on monday. and i hope to see you on sunday night for my show. the mehdi hasan show on -- at weeknights on 7 pm on peacock. now jonathan kaye pac is in for lawrence tonight, good evening jonathan. >> good evening. >> i'm just saying you did a great job for your debut at 9:00. >> it's very good jonathan. it's good to have some hypocrisy to point to on my way out. >> many, enjoy the rest of your friday night. >> thank you. >> tonight, the full scope of the republican efforts tonight, -- attempted to block the national archives from handing over. it's not c

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