Transcripts For MSNBC Deadline White House 20240709 : compar

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(whistle blowing) did you just spike the footlong? sorry, i didn't want the delay of game. save big. order through the app. hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. happy friday. the sprawling investigation into the capitol insurrection now has in its possession hundreds of records, the twice impeached expresident tried really really hard to hide from them. he took that case of course all the way to the united states supreme court. these are documents that promise to reveal the inner workings of the trump administration in the run-up to the insurrection. we are now getting our first glimpse at some of those records thanks to some extraordinary reporting from our friend bets ewoodruff swan at politico. she obtained an executive order that was never issued but would amount to a dangerous power graph. it directs the defense diplomat to seize voting machines side -- it also appoints a special counsel to investigate the 2020 election. the date on this executive order is december 16th, 2020. it is more than two weeks after trump's own loyal attorney general bill barr said that d.o.j. had found zero evidence of election fraud. also from politico, quote, the draft order would have given the defense secretary 60 days to write an assessment of the 2020 election that suggests it could have been a gam bit to keep trump in power until at least mid february of 2021. cbs news has not reviewed the document. an aide for the 1/6 committee tells nbc the panel is not comment being the documents now in its possession. but the release of the president's records is giving fresh momentum to the january 6th even as the committee is focusing on an effort that actually took place in plain sight. on december 14th, 2020, that's the day that the electoral college actually voted to make joe biden the next president of the united states. it is the gathering of alternate slates of trump electors in several battle ground states that joe biden won that's under scrutiny. thanks in part to intrepid reporting from rachel maddow. several states secured fake certificates saying the trump election oorts were duly elected from qualified. when they were not. politico reports this. they are zeroing in on the involvement of trump's white house and campaign operations, quote, we want to look at the fraudulent activity that was contained in the preparation of those fake electoral college certificates. that's according to congressman jamie raskin, a member of the capitol riot committee. then he goes on to say this, we want the look to see to what extent that was part of a comprehensive plan to overthrow the 2020 election. daniel goldman is here, former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. former lead counsel for the democrats during donald trump's first impeachment trial, now an msnbc legal analyst. also joining us, luke broad water of the "new york times." and the aforementioned bets rewoodruff swan is here, national spoerndent for politico as well as an msnbc contribute. congratulations on this scoop. tell bus this document. >> thanks nicolle. this document document is a heck of a read. i want to be clear what we do and don't know about this draft executive order. we don't know who wrote it. there is not a name of the author on order. we don't know how widely it circulated within the white house. we do know it was in the trump white house during trump's time weeks in office. and the way that they are rock solid 100% positive about that is because the national archives sent this document to the january 6th select committee ask. the national archives of course was getting all these documents from the trump white house. there is so much to say about this draft executive order. one thing that i think is worth noting is that it cites a variety of legal justifications in the very first paragraph for how to try trump having his secretary of defense seize voting machines. some of those are unsupposing, the constitution, a well-known executive order, but it also cites two documents that are not well-known to the public. national security presidential memorandum 13 and national security presidential memorandum 21. the existence of national security presidential memorandum 21 had not been publicly reported anywhere until we got this executive order. both of those national security presidential memorandums are classified. they are not publicly available documents. i am told they both relate to the way that offensive u.s. cyber attacks get authorized ask. the fact that the author of this executive order knew that there was a national security presidential member mum numbered 21 indicates that the person who wrote this memo appears to likely have had access to sensitive information about how the united states government handles national security matters. >> well, i mean, alarms are ringing all over for me as you are saying this. i mean, we know that the person in charge of protecting the elections for cyber, chris krebs, i believe had been fired by this date for something publicly what was true, that the 2020 election was the most secure election in our country's history. we also know that the things -- and people should go onto your story and link to the actual document. the things in it are straight out of what we knew mike flynn and sidney powell and the craziest the crazy people were saying. so are you saying you have questions that what you understand sort of from their crazy theories to trumps willing mind, to the most classified kind of national security documents as they pertain to cyber defense? is that sort of where your questions are at this hour? >> the arguments made in this draft executive order are consistent with proposals that sidney powell and michael flynn were making to trump at the time. this draft executive order is dated december 16th. powell, flynn, and a few other people had meetings with trump, a meeting with trump in the white house oval office two days later on december 18th. our understanding is that they discussed some of the same subject matter as was in this executive order. of course, trump did not sign this executive order. it didn't happen. the defense secretary did not seize any voting machines. the big question for the select committee going forward is, what would have happened if he had signed it? and does the united states need to change its laws so that signing something like this couldn't sends our question into a chaos -- chaotic tailspin. >> i want to show youing? that chris krebs said on this network. then i want to ask you more about how the defense department ended up in this role in this draft. >> it actually is a very clear violation of the posi come at that timis act which you can't use federal troops for domestic law enforcement. by asking dodd to seize these machines is a clear violation of the law. so it's pretty crazy. now, all that said, had it cleared the process and been signed out by the president because we know the process didn't always work at the tail end of the last sad administration i assume it would have been immediately -- you know, several states, including michigan, which was likely a target of the lawsuit, would have immediately sought an injunction. and maybe the president may have actually seen his day at the supreme court. it's such an incredible read. it truly reads to me almost like an op ed in news max or the gateway pundit or something like that. it refers back to a number of reports that had been early discredited by any relevant expert by the time of the date stamp of november 16th. >> you know, obviously, chris krebs is right on every count. but i am thinking, when i saw the interview in the 2:00 hour, that all trump wanted was time. even this e.o. bought him time. it bought him those 60 days. what is your sense of how sort of thought through the agencies were who would have the different responsibilities, the pentagon seizing the machines and whatnot? >> in trump's final days and weeks in offices, the agencies, the national security agencies and offices outside of the white house, as far as the public is aware, behaved the way, for the most part, that people would want them to have bhachbed. of course the national guard it seems like could have been deployed more quickly on january 6th. but there is no indication that senior defense department officials were read in with what michael flynn and sidney powell were advocating. what some of this truly truly scary and crazy advocacy that was going on. it feels so weird even trying to game out the alternative history of what would have happened if trump had told defense secretary chris military seize these voting machines. and remember, there was some durability also at the justice department when trump and one senior d.o.j. official raised the prospect of firing the attorney general and trying to replace him with someone who would have been on board with trump's projects. most the senior lawyers at d.o.j. threatened to resign en masse, and that threat worked. one of the really interesting things about trump's last days in how many is how many things -- a lot of things went wrong. but what's interesting is how many things could have gone much worse that didn't. and this o.e. is very much a two-page encapsulation of a nightmare scenario that did not play out. the question for the select committee and for congress going forward is what would have happened if this nightmare scenario did play out? and do we need better laws in place given that all the norms have basically been chucked out the window. >> dan goldman it seems that the question for the committee may also be if he put an unconstitutional plot to have the defense department seize voting machines on paper, what else did he put on paper? to me, this raise as million more questions about what other bat bleep crazy plans ended up in writing. >> you used exactly the word i was trying to figure out a synonym for at 4:00. >> did you come up with one? >> that's -- no. but that's exactly right. and that's true with -- with this document. it's true with the phony sham slate of electors. i mean, what we are realizing now is that this scheme was sprawling, and it had many different tentacles. it had many different aspects. it was pursuing many different pathways towards one final goal, which was overturning the election. what we know is the very last gasp was january 6th. but these were all other significant efforts as part of what increasingly appears to be a clear conspiracy to overturn the election to try to achieve that goal. and obviously, this didn't go through as betsy pointed out, and it wasn't signed. but the fact that it was put in official draft format, that it wasn't just like, you know, notes on the back of an envelope, is truly remarkable. because in order to draft something like this, there is a process. and it has to go through a number of different people. we don't know how many it would have gone through. but it was on formal executive order format. and that is -- that's pretty remarkable that you would actually have sidney powell's wild and michael flynn's insane ideas put on a potential executive order signed by the president of the united states. >> yeah. i mean it also is this little sort of keyhole peek, luke, into what the committee now gets to pore over. i mean, what's your sense of their reaction to what is already in their possession and what they are expected to have their hands on in short order? >> as you say, they have now more than 700 pages of documents from the national archives that president trump had specifically identified as trying to withhold. now, remember, president trump and his lawyer agreed to not fight the release of hundreds of pages of documents when the committee requested, you know, more than 1,000 pages of documents. the national archives went through and they sent something like 10 million emails to idea ones. and trump specifically identified this executive order among hundreds of documents he did not want released. that's interesting because as we reported at the time there was a very heated meeting in the white house where sit me powell was arguing for these extreme measures and the rest of the white house counsel office was pushing back very strenuously, and at one point sidney powell brought out a bunch of affidavits which she said proved her point about the fake voting -- about the voting machines switching votes and she was laying them out. and each one was seends by the same discredited person. and that was pointed out to her. so if you didn't have the white house counsel's office pushing back so strenuously against her, as betsy brought up earlier, this happened with the justice department as well. if you the didn't have these people in government standing up to some of the craziest ideas, who knows who would have happened? so, yeah, this is one of the big documents the select committee was hoping to get. they now have it. and they are going to be poring over the rest of these hundreds of documents. and i'm told they may even consider releasing them publicly after their investigators go through all of them. >> that's amazing. we know we played those comments from jamie raskin. they are also looking at the crimes or alleged crimes, potential crimes that took place in plain sight, the questions about whether the alternate electors forged documents and sent fraudulent slates in on their day, on december 14th. i want to show you something that trump aide angela mccallum, who has been subpoenaed, said to one of the michigan state reps on december 1st, 2020. >> tomorrow, as you might be aware, mayor giuliani will be presenting experts and witnesses from michigan who will be able to show that the vote totals are fatally flawed and do not accurately represent the will of the voters, as well as your constituents. you do have the power to reclaim your authority and send a slate of election tours that will support president trump and vice president pence. there are state legislators across the country who are standing with the president to stop this voter fraud from happening under their watch. we want to know when there is a resolution in the house to appoint electors for trump if the president can count on you to join in support. >> luke, it seems to close the loop between rudy, the trump re-election campaign, and the conduct of state actors out in the field. i guess the open questions are about whether the eastman memo and the president himself put it in motion. is that where they are still probing? >> i think they are trying to gather every detail they can about the bigger question here is whether there were separate conspiracies or whether they were all part of one giant conspiracy to overturn the election. certainly, there were connections between the various groups that were all working on this on behalf of trump. but that -- that voice mail i think is very clear that it's the trump campaign, it's rudy giuliani, who are trying to get state-level actors to side with a fake slate of electors instead of with the will of the people. so you know, i don't know how much more clear you need to get. you have the secretary of the trump campaign reading what sounds like a telemarketing call to convince people to -- to, you know, overturn an election. but that's pretty clear evidence. >> right. dan, maybe you can answer that. the circumstance cell closed between rudy giuliani, the campaign at large, and the effort to have fraudulent slates of electors sent in for the loser of the election, donald trump. >> yeah, what do you know? rudy giuliani is right at the heart of more misconduct. that seems to be a pretty consistent theme over the last three or four years. but, yes, this was clearly one aspect. and luke raises a good point. was it multiple conspiracies? the way i view this, given the actors, given the fact that it was all in support of trump's allegations and he is right at hub of it, that this would be considered one conspiracy if you were to charge this criminally. but this -- i think it's important to pars out this fraudulent slate of electors a little bit because what is so critical here is that i think across the board by the time of december 14th there were no more court cases. and the -- each state had certified the results that biden won. so the slate of electors, biden's state of electors was then certified, authorized to be sent to washington. today these republican slate -- these trump slates of electors actually went out on their own in what was clearly a formulaic document probably prepared by the campaign, given the evidence that's coming out right now. and those were sent to the senate and to the archives. but they were presented as if they were the true slate of electors, not as in new mexico and one other state, where they said, if there is the need or if there is any uncertainty about the slate of electors, then these would be the trump electors. that is an absolute misrepresentation based on fraudulent premise. and that is you know also part of a potential criminal conspiracy. >> betsy, the year started, and it feels like the perception of momentum for this committee could have gone either way. there could have been attention on the few folks who have not cooperated fully. i don't even like to put mark meadows in that category because mark meadows turned over 9,000 documents, which included all the emails including from the president's own son and sean handity and whatnot. i guess it would be the steve bannons and mike pence, and people who look like they may not actually sit down in front of the committee and be responsive to the subpoenas. or it could have gone this way, the supreme court agreeing with the lower courts and unleashing all of this paper evidence of what was going on in the white house which is always worse, with the reporting that you and luke and others do, always worse than you can imagine. what is your sense of how the committee feels at this hour? >> what i can tell you is i am personally surprised by how quickly the process has moved for this committee. when had he first went after the national archives records a couple of months ago, my hunch is that it would take much longer for them to be able to get the documents that they want asked that the court fights would be more protracted. instead we have seen an extraordinarily short time line under which this committee has started getting really volume nows records. part of that of course due to the fact that the biden white house has been very cooperative, greenlighting, waiving executive privilege for a host of these materials. if they had asserted executive privilege it would be different ball game. but they haven't. they moved quickly. and through the courts, the legal process has also moved at rapid clip as well ask. the committee has been very much telegraphing they feel like they are getting a whole bunch of stuff. of course there are some people whose testimony they may not actually ever be able to secure. but there is so much to learn about january 6th, just the volume of information that we don't know about, the number of threads to pull is so large, that even if they only get a significant fraction of what they are hoping to get, it will still be a substantial, sizable amount of new information that we don't yet have this. kbrd, the draft executive order is a big deal. it's just one document. they have gotten hundreds. >> that's amazing. done goldman, luke broad waertd, and a special thank you to betsy woodruff swan today. thank you for starting us off. when we come back, once again, the supreme court has close tony allow the texas abortion ban to remain in effect. and on the eve of roe versus weighed's 49th anniversary activists are worried that the land mark ruling giving women the right to their own health will not make it to 50. that story is next. plus, president biden's approval rating has taken a bit of a dip from one of his most important blocks of voters, black americans, but heading into year two why many are comfort he can turn it around. and the u.s. pledging a severe response should vladimir putin make a move into ukraine. two of the smartest people on that topic will be our guests. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. and then two granddaughters. i noticed that memories were not there like they were when i was much younger. since taking prevagen, my mory has gotten better and it's like the puzzle pieces have all been [click] put together. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. oh hey there! i'm just reading wayfair reviews like it's my job. i love seeing people loving their home. my daughter and i never agree on anything. that's not true! but we did agree this rug was perfect. okay. stop being weird. mom and daughter agreeing on something. wayfair works miracles! ooh! 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that up stills terror in those who assist women exercising their rights. state officials knew that the fear and confusion would predict citizens from accessing constitutionally protected medical care, providers from offering it and federal courts from restoring it. this case is a disaster for the rule of law and a grave disservice to women in texas who have a right to control their own bodies. i will not stand by silently as the state continues to nullify this constitutional guarantee. it is not just the women of texas who are being forced to suffer in direct violation of their constitutional rights. remember the "new york times" editorial board reflecting on tomorrow's anniversary of the roe versus weighed decision rights this about the state of abortion care in america today. the week of its 49th birthday, roe v weighed is hobbled not only is it unlikely to make it to 50 in any recognizable form but for millions of women across the country who live in states where abortion is almost unobtainable even now, it might as well already be gone. joining us now, mini, and dr. block stock. you know, dr. black stock, we talk so much about the other crisis, the other pandemics, covid. but this has been going on with almost equal velocity, if you will, in this country, over the last two years. and i wonder your thoughts on this sort of weird juncture between these legal setbacks for the texas near total ban, 85% of abortions in texas took place after this six-week windows as we sit on this eve of what is now a sad anniversary. >> thank you so much, nicolle for having me. i think what these restrictive abortion laws will do is compound racial and economic inequities. we already know that women will be harmed by these laws. abortion care is health care. and we know that low income women, black women, hispanic women r disproportionately represented among people who seek abortion care. and so we are going the see those inequities become even wider. i think it's also important just to step back, and texas overall has some of the worst health outcomes overall, lack of access to health care. so what we are going to see is, you know, people who are seeking abortion are going to be essentially left out in the cold and will suffer potential physical and psychological harm. and it is -- we are taking many, many steps back, nicolle. you know, i will say that we are going to see the inequities that have been widened because of the covid pandemic, widened even more because of these restrictive laws. >> i want to -- hang on a second before we get to the politics of it, because that is the new reality. i want to understand from you, minnie, if you think americans understand, women and men, if you think americans understand what is about to happen. >> you know, we are doing our best to amplify the message. but i think there will be a significant population that will be in shock come what we expect a june decision on the dobbs case, the mississippi abortion ban case. but i completely degree with dr. black stock. i'm from texas. we have had challenges for access to abortion in texas for a very long time. 26 states in this country are poised with bans on the books, preexisting roe bans to bans on abortion in some way, shape or form subsequent to the supreme court making a decision. the lack of action by this court has compounded the problem legislatively. we have got at least nine states on track to file sb 8 copycat legislate. i was talking to advocates in florida about it. we have covid, as the doctor said, we have access to care that was already eroded across the country. now we could have 26 states in the country, the majority of the country, lacking access by this summer. >> i want to read something that cess seal richards writes today in the "new york times." she says this. this could well be the last anniversary of roe. if i have one regret from my time leading planned parenthood is that we believed that providing vital health care with public opinion on our side would be enough to avoid the political onslaught. i underestimated the colousness of the republican party and its willingness to trade off the rights of women for political expediency. i see i wasn't cynical enough to fully comprehend the extent of the republican party's willingness to trade away people's live for political power. the erosion of women's rights is the erosion of bare raw knuckle politics of a minority exercising their power over a majority. the millions of americans would are watching horrified as the supreme court prepares to roll back a right they have had near half a century need to be just as dog asked determined that it is going to take unprecedented levels of political activism to fight back. what is so amazing to me covering this is that i know from my time in republican politics that it is -- it is unpopular among republicans to ban abortion outright, which is essentially what the texas law does. a majority of americans support roe as it is. and all the sitting justices basically said during their confirmation hearings that they viewed it as settled law. minnie, what do you think happened? >> so, i used to work for cess eel. >> she's my former boss. she's 100% right. i think it is a clarion call, a important moment for the advocacy unit in the space. we can't underestimate the lengths the gop will go to attack women's health rights. also, we are in the same week where we have the voting rights battle. and we along with other groups within the reproductive rights base were active in making sure we were unequivocal about the threat that reproductive voting and voting rights in a democracy has, the interconnectedness of those issues. we are living in a world of minority rule and we know americans perot issues including reproductive freedom, access to abortion, yet we can't move the state legislatures. we know why. we have to take a deeper look behind gop extremism. as you pointed out we don't have pro-choice republicans anymore. we have maybe a couple in the senate we are hoping on for william's health protection act. overall, we have none in the house and parties are increasingly died divided and this is going to be the front of the battle. it is back to the states. and an increasingly hostile environment. you did a lot of work on your show about trump. i don't think that's the only reason this happened. but i think this has been a long, long, long term attack by the gop. >> 69% of americans say no, don't turn turn it. in the some poll, 39% of americans say if roe versus weighed is overturned they would like their state to set laws that are more permissive. to minnie's point, the fight, if you are lucky enough to live in a state committed to protecting women's right to health care choice, that is still available to you. but if you are not, and there are millions of wome who are not, it is a whole different story. >> absolutely, as you said, abortion care -- i said it earlier, abortion care is health care. i think people don't realize how important that is. unplanned pregnancies are associated with increased mortality, preterm deliveries and prematurity. we know that women may, pregnant people may try to use unsafe means to end the pregnancy. and so -- we also know abortion care is important for psychological and physical well-being. so, again, abortion care is health care. this is a reproductive issue, racial justice, and socioeconomic issue. we know which people are going to be affected and impacted detrimentally the most. that is low income women, black women, and hispanic women. they are more likely to be uninsured. more likely to be unemployed. and if they do have public insurance, there are restrictions on being able to use that insurance for abortion care. again, i think we are going to see more pregnant people becoming harmed and even dying as a result of this restrictive law. >> that's just amazing n january of 2022 n america. minnie, i'm sorry i botched your name the first time i said it. my apologies. and dr. black stock thank you for spending time with us. a top democratic coming the president biden's defense urging patience. we will talk about that next. feg feg patience ♪sure would help a lot ♪ ♪wouldn't you like to get away? ♪ ♪ we will talk about that next ♪ ♪where everybody knows your name ♪ ♪ ♪and they're always glad you came ♪ with relapsing forms of ms... ♪ there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. it can all add up. kesimpta is a once-monthly at-home injection... that may help you put these rms challenges in their place. kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions, and slowing disability progression vs aubagio. don't take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. kesimpta can cause serious side effects, including infections. while no cases of pml were reported in rms clinical trials, it could happen. 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congressman james clyburn is one of president biden's most important and influential supporters, speaking there to my colleague, nbc's kristen welker and in a sense coming to the president's defense after this week's major blow to federal voting lights legislation, and as black voters amplify some of their criticisms and calls for the president to do more in terms of delivering on promises made during the campaign. a new nbc poll shows the president's support among black voters has dropped some 19 points since april. it is now at 64%. kristen welker spoke with other black democrats in 10:00 and one long-time biden supporter and former state delegate tellser he still supports the president but is calling on him to do more direct outreach. >> we will continue to be with him, but he needs to be with us walking side by side, not behind us. not necessarily in front of us. but side by side, as martin luther king did. >> let's bring into our conversation reverend al sharpton. basil smikle is also here. these conversations can get flattened and be one dimensional. i feel like we have been having this conversation for many many months. i want to understand what youred a vis is to this president, rev, at a policy level and at a political level. >> well, i think the president has to really take a strong and direct initiative to really deal with the fallout from two democrats standing in the senate against him, a sitting democratic president and against the rest of their caucus, which was unanimous, the democrats. and more important, standing in the way of voting rights being practiced that will have a disproportionate impact on black voters and on voters of color around the country. i said the president ought to be meeting with civil rights leaders. i think there will be a formal request on his desk monday. he met with us leading up to it. we wanted him to speak out earlier on the phil buster. he didn't. he finally did. he did it aggressively, but it was not enough to get the whole caucus of democrats with him. so we need to know what the justice department will do about these states, the 19 states, that have come with 33 laws. can the justice department come in and question some of those laws that disproportionately gerrymandered black districts, has a disproportionate impact on black voters. we want to know if there are some things he can do with executive orders. there is a lot the president needs to talk about. he needs to be aggressive and public about it. we don't need to turn the page like oh, we tried our best let's move on. we cannot move on. we are talking about our very rights to vote in this country. >> basil, with all respect to pollsters and the polling industry, i never thought there was much use. i mean the president's support is down. i am not sure if it is anything specific with any piece of his coalition. but it is usually a policy prescription, not political prescription. i wonder if you see it that way. and i wonder if you can build on the rev's comments about the policy prescriptions. >> yeah, sure. i think from the political standpoint the numbers are important because that, in some cases, gives us a sense of, you know, with midterms coming, what is the outpouring of support with at the ballot box with respect to african american voters, particularly when you have so many race, stacey abrams and georgia and others. that helps us know how much work we need to do to get african american voters to come out. but to the rev's point he makes a great point because legislatively this is where the rubber meets the road. for example, on infrastructure there was so much political capital spent to pass infrastructure. but you know, have you gone out and talked about mwbes and how minority-owned businesses will be able to take advantage of this bill? how does that help our communities? and with the legislation that isn't done, the voting rights, when we see what is happening in georgia with these voting militias, if you will. you know, if i were to zoom out a little bit, yes, it is the legislation. but i think broadly, it is something that i say often, as a black man i cannot afford to have power and not use it. i think there are a lot of folks looking at the biden administration and saying w these two breakout members of the senate, manchin and sinema, with so much other disruptions, full, in the party, how do you have this power and you are not using it to effect the change that we elected you to effect? and so that, i think is the sort of stronger theme that i think has emerged in this first year. and i will say this other thing very quickly. >> please. >> i am all for sub standive representation, but -- one of the thing i don't see enough of is his partnership with kamala harris. you saw with obama a very strong partnership with the then vice president, joe biden. but what i don't see as strong -- yes, it is just the first year, but you know, it is a very important first year. i don't see enough the biden/harris relationship and the strength of that partnership. the substantive representation does matter. i think you have voters looking at that and saying, well, where are all of these things that we elected you to do? i know you have got your hands full, but you still need to show us a little more than you have. >> it is so interesting because politics is about what you get done, but it's also about how you talk to the people who mean the most to you and who does the talking. i want to keep this going. i have to squeeze in a quick break. i want to ask both of you to stick around. i want to address more of this on the other side. on the other side. they say durable is the new black. okay, no one says that. but, it's true. just ask sharon. after three years these barstools still look brand new. even with these crazy lovebirds. [ squak ] alright i'll take the barstools! you can keep the birds. okay. y'all gotta hear this next one. kevin holds all my shirts and shorts. he even stuck with me through a cross country move. yeah, i named my dresser kevin. wow! i need a kevin that holds all my clothes. alright. i am sold. (vo) this year, t-mobile for business is here to help you hit the ground running. when you switch to t-mobile and bring your own device, we'll pay off your phone up to $800. you can keep your phone. keep your number. and get your employees connected on the largest and fastest 5g network. plus, we give you $200 in facebook ads on us! so you can reach more customers, create more opportunities, and make this the best year for your business yet. visit your local t-mobile store today. here we go... remember, mom's a kayak denier, so please don't bring it up. bring what up, kayak? excuse me? do the research, todd. listen to me, kayak searches hundreds of travel sites to find you great deals on flights, cars and hotels. they're lying to you! who's they? kayak? arr! open your eyes! compare hundreds of travel sites at once. kayak. search one and done. we're back with bazzel, we talk about rates covered all the time but we spent hours and hours on television together in the weeks and months covering an outpouring, really, unrivalled in modern time over police brutality, and i wonder your thoughts about where that stands. >> i think that has been very frustrating, for voters and generalists, certainly for me and those of us who have been involved in that movement. let us remember that part of what drove the historic turnout last year, in 2020, really the year before last, was the george floyd movement and the reaction to what happened with george floyd and ahmed aubrey, and others, and nothing has happened. we saw the republicans able to, in many ways, flirt and play games and act as though they're going to do something with senators cory booker and karen bass and end up getting to the one yard line and back up on dealing with quantifying immunity on the george floyd bill. so nothing has happened, and all of this hurts the president, hurts the democrats, because the emotional charge that helped to bring out that historic vote was voting rights and police reform and we've seen nothing move forward. so though you can say well, it's not the president directly because he's not in the senate, he, and it's happening under his watch and people need to be concerned . how do we go back to voters and tell them to come back in record numbers again, we know we didn't get what we wanted, we were outflanked by republicans and two people who did not stand with the party. they will now say, well what guarantees do we have going forward? i've done any number of funerals since george floyd that were police related so, nicole, people expect if they are going to go out and stand in line sometimes, seven, eight hours, they will at least get some of what they voted for in terms of police reform and voting, we have not gotten anything and we need to really get some really solid answers, particularly in a midterm election year. >> you know, and bazzle, i don't think anybody questions what's in this president's heart, i think his commitment to both issues are laid bare when he does talk about them but i think it's something the rev just said, about being out flanked and outfoxed by the likes of mitch mcconnell and others who are able to bring along a couple democrats, enough democrats to kill this president's priority and see i wonder if you can speak to that point of political competence. >> yeah, you know, as much as we talk about democrats and republicans, as much as i have concerns, worries, fears about what republicans do, they're not stupid. the leadership is not stupid. they're brazen. they may, we may question their scruples, but they're not stupid. they understood that in donald trump, they could get everything they wanted. they have reshaped the courts across this country for generations. your earlier segment talked about the texas abortion law. when you think about the voting rights legislation on top of that, police reform, all of these pieces of legislation, so much of it going through the courts, the republicans have this plan in place for at least a decade or more and they got everything they wanted out of donald trump, they don't even need him anymore, quite frankly, to promote their policy agenda for another 10, 15, 20 years. the question for democratic voters, particularly where african american voters are looking at this is where is that plan for us? where is that plan for our party? what power do you have now that you can sort of start this process where we are reshaping the policy agenda and changing the narrative about policy making in this country and this, i think, on a national scale, is what is lacking. locally, you see, i think you see a lot more change. you see mayors and governors, you see it here in new york, state attorney general james doing extraordinary work to actually prosecute donald trump. so you see so much of this activity and that resist nsz, remember in early days of trump administration, that is still happening at the local level. the question is, nationally, is this administration capitalizing on that energy and pushing this agenda forward? and that's -- it's what appears, at times, to be the lack of political will that is so vexing for so many voters and will cost democrats the midterms, it will. >> so important to have this conversation this way with smart people who do it from a position of support. thank you so much, for your ca nder, reverend, basil, thank you so much. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after the break. don't go anywhere. s after the b. s after the b. don't go anywhere. and make sure everything's in it's place. so nothing is out of place. however you make it, make your home a place like no other. living with diabetes? glucerna protein smart has your number with 30 grams of protein. scientifically designed with carbsteady to help you manage your blood sugar. and more protein to keep you moving with diabetes. glucerna live every moment the discussion today was frank and substantive. i made the position of the united states and european allies that we stand firmly with ukraine in support of the sovereignty and territorial integrity. >> hi, again, everyone, a test of biden's foreign policy today as secretary of state anthony blinken met with his counter part, sergey lavrov in switzerland today to avert a global crisis. to stave off an invasion of ukraine, lavrov denied, but the amassed troops on the russian border give a different impression. as remarked on today's meeting it is actions, not the words that make a difference now. today's 90 minute meeting resulted in no breakthroughs but agreement that diplomacy would continue, from the washington post reporting, quote, following the discussion in geneva, would follow talks with lavrov after officials wrote a written response, expected next week, to proposals russia put forward on limiting the nato expansion and activities in eastern europe. today's meeting comes a day after president biden clarified his own comments about a response to russia's aggression after seeming to expect a minor incursion might only be met with limited response, biden made clear yesterday that putin will pay a severe price if russia invades, no matter how big the invasion. a message the secretary of state echoed today. >> we've been clear. if any military forces move across ukraine's border, that's a renewed invasion. it will be met with swift, severe and united response from the united states and our partisan allies happen. >> earlier this week, blinken stressed what is at stake as more reporting in the post details, described the escalating conflict in ukraine as a threat to the global rule of law and a signal to autocracies that borders can be redrawn by force. quote, it is bigger than russia and nato, it is a crisis with global consequences and requires global attention and action. in a new piece in foreign affairs, retired u.s. army lieutenant colonel and former director for european affairs at the national security counsel, alexander vinman writes how the u.s. should respond to this fraught situation, quote, the moment a war starts, the geopolitical landscape will become significantly more challenging for u.s. national security. washington should assume the worst and plan accordingly, leveraging all elements of its power to protect u.s. interests. the biden administration must maintain a delicate balance, avoiding a one-on-one military confrontation with russia while punishing russia for creating this harsh new reality. right now, no task is more important. the critical moment in u.s.-russian relations is how we begin this hour, joining us, retired army colonel alex vin current director for foreign affairs, author a great new book, and ambassador to russia, michael am mcfall, now msnbc analyst, i'm trying to figure out how to asking with as few questions as possible so i can speak with both of you, but could you expand on your piece colonel vinman and talk about what happened today? >> i think it's important to know that we're basically just on the cusp of war. i think it's all but certain in my mind that there's going to be a large european war on the border of magnitude of world war ii with air power, sea power, massive ground forces offensives and my concern now is making sure the united states is postured for that outcome. i think there's little to be done to avoid it at this point. i think the u.s. was overreliant on a deterrent based on reactionary policy, so if russia does this, these are the consequences it could bare out. in reality, the russians have significant reason to see doubt u.s. resolve in this space. i think at this point, we also need to start preparing for the day after, the day of the outcome, for the humanitarian catastrophe that's going to unfold in europe, for the contingencies of having to reassure u.s. allies in eastern europe, that are going to want some u.s. presidents there to insure russian's objectives are in fact, limited to ukraine, and come to the reality that there are going to be seismic effects on the geopolitical landscape, economic landscape, that american people should be aware of because they're going to be directly impacted on the u.s. economy, on u.s. national security, and we should just be doing everything we can to prepare for that and do whatever we think we can do at this point maybe to avert it, but the ball's in putin's court. he's the one going to make the ultimate call on this. he's the one that has the most flexibility because he's an authoritarian leader and he could look for evasive measures. i think the u.s. and eu, nato, and the ukrainians have, frankly, less flexibility. they've established a very firm position and something that they really can't easily change course on now. >> colonel vinman, i'll come back to this and underscore this, you believe it's a fore gone conclusion that war will take place and be on the scale of world war ii? >> i think the offensive, what we will see, will be on that -- that's going to be the biggest military offensive in europe since world war ii in europe. i mean, there have been major, major military confrontations since world war ii that the u.s. has been involved in, but within the european plain, this is going to be the biggest one and we should remember some lessons from history. the u.s. has been drawn into two other wars in europe and we need to handle the situation very carefully to make sure the u.s. is not drawn directly into this looming confrontation and the way we do that is by being prepared and by taking actions now, not waiting until the day that shots are fired. >> colonel vinman, you talked about vladimir putin, the approach, sort of the structural framework with which we deal with him as deterrence and reacting to his conduct being ineffective. is that a strategic error or just the dynamic of a democracy and alliance going up against a dictator? >> it's both, i think. frankly, we should be proud of what we accomplished with regards to trying to gain some coherence amongst our alliance, bringing our allies and partners together. their actions and their words and actions are going to be weighty in the coming days, but i think there is something to be said about this, the policy, maybe too slow of recognition of where we're headed, and not enough emphasis on preventive actions preempting what's about to unfold and relying on, really, a much more narrower set of diplomatic tools, tools of state craft, waiting until after the hostilities begin. i think we could have done more months, maybe even weeks ago with regard to signaling that ukraine does have more than just a rhetorical support. some of this has been occurring, frankly, that the administration could have done better about advertising the things it's doing behind the scenes but simply not enough. based on the consequences, based on the ramifications, everything, there should be no limiting factors on what we're prepared to do to avert this crisis. >> ambassador mcfall, we'll sort of start at the beginning with you, first, where do you see things now with russia and ukraine? >> well, i want to distinguish between capacity and see intentions. it's very clear that russia, vladimir putin, has amassed the capacities to do everything colonel vinman just described and particularly what they're doing in belarus right now i think is even escalating in terms of those capacities, but i don't know what putin wants. i don't know what his intentions are, and frankly not convinced that anybody does. i don't think sir gail of raff knows what he's going to do and he like it is that way, i negotiated with putin in my previous life in government, studied him for 20 years, he loves uncertainty. because you know what happens, nicole, when you have uncertainty? we start negotiating with ourselves we say hey, wait a minute, we don't want to go along with the american plan, here's european plan, what president macon just did, that's a victory for putin. we talk about what he wants all the time, nato expansion, we don't talk about all the things he did to undermine european security, that's a victory for him as well and third, to underscore a point alex just made, colonel vinman made, we worked together in moscow so apologies for the informality there, alex. between doing nothing and the scenario of a full scale invasion that puts russian soldiers in kiev, he has multiple different things he can do. cyber attacks, limited aircraft attacks, artillery attacks, seizing donvas, attacking and retreating without bringing soldiers in and i personally do not know what he's thinking the option he likes to do now, i think he likes the fact we're in a moment of uncertainty and therefore negotiating with ourselves. >> well, i mean ambassador mcfall, i know it was a different comment from president joe biden that got the attention but his analysis of putin was your analysis of putin, depending what side of the bed he gets up on, that is what vladimir putin will do, it sounds like that is the assessment and i can't imagine it's particularly classified at this point because people who watched him for many years describe him that way, but what is your sense of how this white house has played its cards so far and what they should do today and in the days ahead? >> well, to go back, because i've written about it well before the biden administration. i wrote, during the trump administration, and i wrote it as a government official. i agree completely with what colonel vinman said that we need a grand strategy of containment and engagement, multipronged, be on the offense, not just the defense, and we've been like this for many years, well before the biden administration. and we have experience with that. we should learn from history about what that means and the ideological dimension, more military assistance to ukraine, more support for nato. it's a multipronged strategy but that, we're not going to get there between when there's invasion or not. that's a correction for a bigger structural change. i do think there was a strategic mistake that when the biden administration came in, they said we're just going to focus on china, and we just want a stable relationship with russia, stable and predictable relationship with russia, because they just want to focus on china. well guess what? putin gets a vote, and what we have to do, now we have to a grand strategy for dealing with both autocracies if we're lucky enough to do so without war. >> talking today about the domestic political side inside ukraine, president zelensky was upset that president biden talked about, well, upset about his specific comments, but also upset the specter of invasion raised by an american president. what is happening, domestically, inside ukraine, and what is president zelensky's sort of popularity or political strength right now? >> first of all, let me say, ambassador, you're welcome to call me alex, we're well past that formality, having many years under our belt together. i'll do my best -- okay, well we'll try to work on that one. but nicole, i think the internal dynamics are a part of the opportunity that i think vladimir putin sees in executing this operation now. i think volodomy zelensky is in a weak position, his popularity is in dumps because he hasn't lived up to the expectations on reforms and anticorruption measures. i frankly don't get the strategy of saying don't worry about it, there's nothing to see here. i know he wants to present strength to his people and keep them calm, but that's just not the reality of the situation. i don't look at the rhetoric, i look at the facts on the ground. and i look at where we are right now, and i am very prepared to just flat out state that we are on the cusp of a war. we will more likely than not, will be a major war in ukraine. and the reason i say that is that even since these diplomatic negotiations have unfolded, the rhetoric and the actions have further progressed down that road. the russians are in the final stages of preparing their forces. they're doing, the precombat rehearsals you would see armies do before they cross the border. flying in a last bit of personnel, logistical support, troops from, you know, 11 time zones away, that's the size of russia, or at least eight time zones away from eastern military district into belarus to complicate the geometry for another vector of attack, and more importantly, we're now, we see that it's only going to get harder for russia. we have lithuanians, uk, estonians, the poles provider u.s. with more weapons, providing ukraine with more weapon and see this is exactly what we should be doing on the high confidence that a war is coming. but we should also recognize that also locks us into a kind of course of action, because it means that it's even harder for russia to achieve its military objectives. now, russia has overwhelming military power. it could really crush the ukrainian military, in spite of the advances it made, but it's getting harder, because the ukrainians are getting thousands of antitank rounds, thousands of, or, i'm not sure exactly what the numbers are but certainly in the hundreds for antiaircraft capability and that is going to be harder, get harder as time wears on. if he backs down now and chooses a different time, it's because he doesn't see the same opportunity he did when he launched this operation, when he started thinking about positioning the military forces in place at the beginning of 2021 and certainly in the fall of 2021, when he thought there was a much bigger divisions between the u.s. and europe, when they were, when the u.s. seemed a lot less resolved to respond. those are the things that might drive a change in calculus and this menendez's bill, senator's bill, which is broad ranging and quite impactful, that needs to get passed. congress does not need to be going into recess until this issue with ukraine has been addressed, because again, the day after, things get a lot more complex for national security. this bill needs to be passed with overwhelming bipartisan support, the rhetoric should not just be about diplomacy, but what war looks like, and i hope to god i'm wrong. i hope to god i'm wrong, but i'm willing to go ahead and raise this alarm, put my crediblity on the line to make sure people are paying attention. governments are paying attention to take the appropriate actions now. >> you both are almost bilingual in terms of understanding the region, understanding the players in a teeny, tiny category of the top 1% of the 1%, but you also have had 1 foot, for better or worse, into american domestic, political undulations, i ask both of you to answer this question. why does this matter? you first, ambassador mcfall. >> i thought secretary blinken yesterday gave a fantastic speech and i encourage your viewers to read it, it's not that long, and i think he made the case. by the way, i'm increasingly impressed with short term diplomacy, long-term, that's another day, but short term has been superb and i think we're more united today than six months ago, let alone during the trump administration. the key point he said which i think everybody needs to think about, that this is not just about ukraine, this is about the international order. if russia can annex and invade ukraine with no price, that means china can do the same with taiwan, other autocracies can do the same around the world and remember when saddam hussein did this against kuwait the world united, not because, people want to say it's about the oil, that's not true at all, it's about we cannot let the borders of countries be redrawn through the use of force because we know what that looks like. that's what happened in world war ii, that's why we have all these new norms since '45 to say you can't invade countries, you can't annex countries so the stakes are i think much, much bigger than just ukraine. >> colonel vinman, i think we all first learned about you through what i'm sure you and your family still view as the unfortunate act of you listening to this phone call or learning about a phone call from an american president to zelensky in which he thought to ex-tort him to withhold military aid until dirt was dug up on who is now our president. what does what america does now matter, in terms of the long-term relationship with russia? >> it's worse than that nicole, i actually organized that phone call. but i think the fact is that ambassador mcfall mentioned, or articulated this quite well, so i'm not sure if there's that much to that except for the fact that this is going to have ramifications for the entire globe. this is going to send signals to the chinese about what they can do in taiwan, about the iranians in the persian gulf, will have implications if we return to what has been referred to as the rules of the jungle, where might makes right and the powerful can go ahead and suppress the weak on their borders. this is going to be a reversal of all the gains that were made post world war ii and this is, that's what really is at stake here. i think in addition to that, we should not underestimate the impacts of this scale of war and what that could mean. there's a good -- there's a reasonable basis to assume that the eastern european allies are not going to sit this one out. they're going to provide the ukrainians with support. what does russia do with existence of safe havens. does it, does it let them exist or does it continue, or does it neutralize those. that means that there's an implication that our eastern european allies that are subject to the protections of article five can be drawn in. the humanitarian scale of this catastrophe is going to be enormous. those are not going to be images that are going to be easily swept aside. and implications for russia in the short term and the medium term are also fairly significant. i don't think this stops with ukraine. i think there's certainly an opportunity to also secure belarus, although frankly, in a lot of ways it's largely secured and russia's sphere of influence is not going anywhere, they're beholden to russia but something to say there, and then the issue of article 5, does that hold, mean anything, and it's all determined based on the western response. so there's an enormous amount at stake here. >> so until the two of you launch a podcast, lex and mike, i thank you with your titles, colonel vindman and ambassador mcfall, thank you for your time this afternoon we'll continue to call on you. thank you. when we come back, earlier this week we told you how one red state governor wants to create a special police force to investigate voter fraud that does not exist, critics panned it as patent voter intimidation, but that does not stop them. and then, how best to deal with the mental health toll so many americans tell us they are suffering from in the age of trump era politics. and later, it would be funny if it weren't true, health official in florida's largest county is put on leave after encouraging his staff, wait for it, to get vaccinated to get covid. that really happened. 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done. for my family to reach the middle class, and i've been helping others ever since. when the pandemic hit bilal was right there, helping restaurant workers make ends meet. in the obama administration, bilal worked tirelessly on innovative policies. the status quo isn't working. bilal is the best shot we have for meaningful change. i'm bilal mahmood, and i know our city can become a beacon of hope once again. earlier this week, we told you about how florida's governor rhonda santez is seeking to create a special police force to oversee state elections and investigate voter fraud, a crime virtually unexistent, despite democrats and voting rights activists calling out the proposals for what they are, intimidation tactics, the ideas are catching on for republicans in other key battle ground states, following florida's lead, georgia and arizona are pushing similar measures to police the state elections. georgia former senator turned candidate for governor, purdue, pledged yesterday to create a force of his own if elected. while in arizona, state senator and trump supporter wendy rogers filed a board to make a, quote, bureau of elections in the governor's office that would have the power to seize election equipment. we should say again, none of these states had any voter fraud. nothing systemic, nothing that would have overturned the results in those states. incredibly small number of election fraud cases in 2020 and this growing trend is just the latest attempt by republicans to repeat the disgraced ex-president's claims that the election was stolen from him and legislate based on that lie, joining our conversation, political strategist and founder of country over party and new york times editorial board member as well as msnbc contributor. you know, matt dowe, there was said something the last hour that stuck in my brain since he said it, republicans are not bad at -- add libbing now, not stupid, not bad at everything. and when you take a republican party whose sort of aims and policies are so malevolent, predicate said on a lie about fraud, santez out bragging about the integrity of the election system and you watch the machine operator based on it, there is no bottom and it seems that's what's happening now. >> well, this is what happens in a system where folks are not being held accountable. you know, it happens in any, if there's a crime wave and nobody's arrested, then the crime wave increases and gets worse and worse and worse if there's no police force arresting them and that's where we are today. i think each time this happens, we think it can't go a step further, it goes a step further, because, i think, ultimately, the one, the republicans think they can get away with it and will survive this not only legally, but survive an election challenge in the midst of this. as i was listening to your just earlier segment right before this about russia and ukraine, this kind of thing you just introduced on our panel with about a police force is something you would think was going to occur in a place like russia or a former soviet, you know, satellite state in the course of this and it's also a part of our history. after reconstruction ended, this is exactly what the southern states and the confederacy did, utilizing their police force and utilizing the kkk in order to keep people from the polls, to make sure the votes were crowded in their way, so until my view is and until we fundamentally as an american republic hold the republicans accountable for this, it's going to get worse and worse and worse, what we thought they stole from the cookie jar, then invaded the refrigerator, then grand theft auto is what's happening here, until someone is held accountable, it gets worse and worse. >> accountability in terms of losing at the ballot box? >> in my view, i said some criticism, i think the justice department needs to be a lot more creative in this and push the envelope in stopping this. i actually believe there's violations of the constitution throughout what's going on in these states. i think they are way too weak in their response. i think they need to go out of their way and be, every single day, be much more aggressive. but until that happens from the justice department, the only manner with which we have to hold them accountable is one, what you're doing, and speaking truth and trying to raise the issue so people are aware of it but the follow-up to that is the ballot box and the ballot box, if the justice department is not going to do this in an aggressive manner, ultimately we can speak the truth but the ballot box is going to determine whether or not republicans are held accountable. >> let's be really blunt here. no one that watches my program believes donald trump's lie about having won the election and a whole lot of people are watching the show on fox news right now, i think the highest rated hour until tucker carlsen on that network, and they're not going to hear the evidence that comes out in drips and drabs every single day about how the lie was stolen, the election was just that, a lie, to keep donald trump in power. and i press on, because holding republicans accountable used to be about using facts and rapid response to make sure the republican voters knew the truth about a candidate, matthew and i did it together sometimes when we were both republicans. the problem now is that the republican base is in a post-fact world. they're not exposed to the facts and when they are they don't believe them and don't care. with that stipulated, what do you do? >> yeah, i think what needs to happen is an equal countermeasure, not just democrats, but anyone who is invested in democracy at this point, a turning as faith groups, they need to come together and there needs to be an equal response to protect the right of the people have to vote in this country. we all know that the elections are going to be won or lost, you know, in a small number of states, in a small battleground. those county officials need to be watched like hawks. we don't have the same local news infrastructure in this country that we used to have, unfortunately, so there's got to be a lot of attention on those county positions who actually count the votes. you know, this did not used to be a partisan affair, but of course, now we can't necessarily count on those county party official to see do the right thing as we did see republican party officials do the right thing, for example, in georgia, in 2020. so right now, republicans are trying to pack those county positions. the democrats need to make sure that they have election officials, you know, watching as well. they need to be running for local seats. need to be concerned about down-ballot races in every single county, in every swing state in the country and i think there needs to be under pinning that if we don't act, and by we i mean the democratic party, anyone who cares about continuing on with democracy, if we don't act, we can assume people won't have the same access to the ballot they once had. this is really a five alarm fire and i don't really understand why we still assume the courts will save us. i mean jim crow was legal. it was legal. so i really think this needs to be, this is essentially going to be a street fight, unfortunately, county by county. so, you know, really, we need to actually make sure that those local officials are not partisan hacks no matter what party they're from, but they're going to do the right thing and count peoples' ballots. i just think this is going to be a very expensive effort and going to be an extremely honerous one, but this is about community organizing, about getting out the vote, this is about church groups, you know, and civil rights groups understand that. so, yes, the courts are important. but the courts are not going to save us, they're not going to protect our right to vote alone. so i think that would be a real mistake. democrats need to focus on those down ballot races. >> if it sounds exhausting, if it sounds like a fight you thought was behind you, and if it depresses you, you're going to want to stick around. when we come back, we'll talk about why so many americans are struggling mentally with the burdens of politics in the era of trump. we'll talk about what we can do about it together, next. togeth, who uncover new medicines to treat mental illness. it includes the compassionate healthcare professionals, the dedicated social workers, and the supportive peer counlors we work with to help improve - and even change - people's lives. moving from mental illness to mental wellness starts in our circle. this is intra-cellular therapies. to be a thriver with metastatic breast cancer means asking for what we want. and need. and we need more time. so, we want kisqali. women are living longer than ever before with kisqali when taken with an aromatase inhibitor or fulvestrant in postmenopausal women with hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer. 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that's why at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner so you can build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. you've been watching along with us the last hour and 38 minutes, this will not come as a shock to you, no need to be presumptuous, but odds are our deer viewers are already well aware of the on going mental health toll on our country in an era where nobody agrees on much of anything everybody agrees on this one thing, unprecedented confluence of challenges never before seen like this in the history of this country, can make everyday feel like, some days, like a 10 mile slog through knee-deep mud, it's no secret, anxiety, stress, addiction, depression, all of it on the rise university poll released this month showed nine in 10 registered voters believe there is a mental health crisis happening right now in this country. one of the primary drivers of this psychological epidemic is our politics. don't need a study to tell us that but we have one anyway, chair of the political science department at university nebraska lincoln sought to font quantify the effect of politics on americans through the trump years and beyond, after compiling the data here's the estimate, 94 million americans perceived politics as a primary source of stress, 44 million lost sleep because of it, 30 million noted politics harmed their physical health and 11 million had suicide thoughts because of politics. back with matt dowed and mara gay, you both inspired me and that's why i'm here and mara, you sharing your fight with covid at the very beginning, the first terrifying wave, i have felt like and i have endeavored here to sort of muddle through the hard things together but it feels like just the what of it, right, just the politics are too much for so many people. what do you think about this? >> you know, i mean as you said, nicole, on a personal note, having gotten sick from a preventable disease that i believe the united states was ill-prepared for because of the former president and was lied to about the way it spread, we were not told what the president knew at the time. there's a sense that it's not just that you got sick, right, it's that violence was inflicted upon your body and your personhood and the kind of trauma that comes with that is different, i think, than if you just get sick on your own which is also very devastating and difficult. but, so, you know, that collective experience has been certainly here in new york, i can speak for us. it's been a collective trauma that it's going to take us years to work through. the idea that we have millions of americans who come to this virus alone, you know, through such a political lens, so you have some people walking around angry, for example, that their stores might be impacted, their livelihood by closures because of covid while you have other americans walking around seeing others refusing to get vaccinated or wearing a mask as personal slights against them. so politics has become personal in a way that maybe, for us, it has always been, but for millions of americans maybe it had not -- maybe wasn't quite as personal. you know, i think the other reality is as we've seen the rise of white supremacy, the rise, again, of white supremacy, and of nationalism, white nationalism, and of extremism, it has become increasingly personal for those of us who are proud americans, who are not white and want to continue to be full citizens in this country. those of us who want to see this democracy move forward and expand into a true multiracial democracy for everybody. it has been devastating to see the losses, you know, culturally, at the ballot box, it's a very difficult time. and so, it's really hard to separate the personal from the political at this point. and i think we're kidding ourselves if it's not personal at this point. so the best that we can do is take good care of ourselves so that we can sort of stay in the fight and so you got to put your own mask on first, right, but you never want to get so burned out that you're not able to keep pushing forward. >> matt dowed, you're a seeker of peace through painful experiences, and i wonder what your thoughts are. >> well, as i was listening and you talked about this and you and i have talked about this before, i mean i think every individual goes through trauma and has to figure out how they make their way through that trauma that by the end of that trauma they're a more loving, more compassionate, better person as opposed to more bitter, closed and dark. our country is, has suffered a tremendous trauma, as a country. and not only because of our politics, just on its own and what's happened the last five years, but covid, and what that's changed in our lives. and the only thing i would suggest, and this comes from my own personal experiences, is we each have to figure out, in our own way, how do we find those moments of peace and connection in community that allow us, as mara said, to continue the fight and do what's right for the benefit of america? i do that through a daily practice of meditation and centering prayer, i have a church that supports me, i connect with my kids. i know you connect with your child, i know you have an animal. people can go outdoors. part of the problem, not only our politics today are so divisive is what it is and covid changed peoples' lives but our consumption of politics is so much more and i think part of this, we have to redefine what it means to be a strong person that wants to do things and sometimes, we think oh, that person needs to consume all this information all the time and therefore that's going to show that they're a person that cares or they have to stay in the fight 12 hours a day and be in the fight. that's not really what strength is. yes, it is in the fight, yes, it is in not being knowledgeable, but to know enough, we have to take care, as mara said, take care of ourselves and take moments away from it so we can rekindle that energy, and find a sense of community somewhere that allows us to connect. i'll add one more thing to this which is, i think we have to give up on the idea that there's some quick fix that will get us back to some mythic time ago, i think we have to give up on both of those. there's no quick fix and electing one person president isn't going to fix this, it's not going to be solved, and we have to let go of the past. longing for the past only puts us in a bad, vulnerable, traumatic state, because we know deep down that's never going to exist and we have to begin to create a new narrative about what does america look like, as mara says, in a multicultural, multiethnic, multiracial society and what does that mean for both our institutions, forms of democracy and how we interact? and until we turn that corner and don't long for something years ago what it used to be like and look for a quick if i can, a quick fix, we need to find what america looks like in the 21st century and get to that america i think all of us long for and want, let go of the past, and have a vision of the future we can walk for toward the horizon. >> lots of words for that, taking the leap and trusting there will be something on the other side but i think you guys put a voice to what i know i hear people really struggle with. matt dowd and mara gay, you are both treasures. thank you both for opening up with us here today. when we come back, you cannot make it up, a top health official in one of florida's largest counties put on leave this week for suggesting that his department get vaccinated. that story, and some very good news about the covid boosters after a quick break, don't go anywhere. id boosters after a quick break, don't go after a quick break, don't go anywhere♪♪ pedialyte powder packs. feel better fast. you could fret about that email you juent. ...with a typo. aaaand most of the info is totally outdated. orrrr... you could use slack. and edit your message after 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[sigh of relief.] slack. where the future works. well, would you look at that? jerry, you gotta see this. seen it. trust me, after 15 walks... gets a little old. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! ugh. unbelievable. living with metastatic breast cancer means being relentless. because every day matters. and having more of them is possible with verzenio. the only one of its kind proven to help you live significantly longer when taken with fulvestrant, regardless of menopause status. verzenio + fulvestrant is for hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer that has progressed after hormone therapy. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. at the first sign, call your doctor start an anti-diarrheal and drink fluids. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor about any fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. life-threatening lung inflammation can occur. tell your doctor about any new or worsening trouble breathing, cough, or chest pain. serious liver problems can happen. symptoms include fatigue, appetite loss, stomach pain and bleeding or bruising. blood clots that can lead to death have occurred. tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain, and rapid breathing or heart rate, or if you're nursing, pregnant or plan to be. every day matters. and i want more of them. ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. [bacon sizzles] [bacon sizzles] ♪ [electronic music plays] ♪ [bacon sizzles] ♪ [electronic music plays] ♪ woo! a massive new study from the cdc shows that pfizer and moderna's third shots are 90% effective against hospitalization due to omicron. it's a major boost from the 57% protection that you get from the first two shots and what it protected you from. it proves how instrumental those booster shots are right now, but things just can't be that simple if you live in florida, right? in orlando, the top health official emailed his staff this month in the middle of the worst covid encouraging them to get vaccinated and boosted. he's now on administrative leave and being investigated to determine if, quote, any laws were broken. in the email the doctor said that he had asked a staff member to pull out the vaccination rates for the office and that the figures were alarming. of the office's 568 employees, only 219, fewer than half, had completed a full vaccination series, and just 77 of them had received a booster shot. it is unclear whether dr. pino was urging them to get vaccinated for status or for both. let's bring in dr. kavita patel, former policy director for obama white house, now a professor with the brookings institute. the two shots with the booster having 90% effective rate at keeping you out of the hospital with omicron, that sounds like very good news. >> it's very good news, nicolle, and it kind of emphasizes boosters. if you're thinking why does that third shot make so much of a difference? it really has to do with the fact that it's activating much more than the antibodies. activating the cascade of cells that can fight different parts of the virus t omicron variant, and attack it from multiple strategies. think about your immune system as not just one response but multiple responses amplifyinging that in a better way. >> last time you were here, we talked about wastewater. what do you feel about omicron locally for you and nationally? >> locally in the d.c. area and new york and much of the northeast and mid-atlantic, feeling very good. cases continue to drop, decline day after day. however, watching some parts of the country, minnesota, missouri, and parts of the midwest are rising. even if they peak, nicolle, in the next couple of weeks, we're headed toward a hard side on the ascent and descent. the majority of people in the hospitals are either unvaccinated or unboosted. i think that's important because there's a lot of misinformation. these vaccines don't do anything and people are getting infection. but when people get infections with both the booster and the original series, the vaccine, we hardly see them. we don't see them. it's mild. so i think it's really critical now that we update our definition of fully vaccinated to include the booster because today's evidence really supports that. >> what's so interesting to me about sort of following the fight over vaccine mandates is it's in everyone's interest from a fellow human to human to keep you healthy and to keep you out of the hospital to keep you vaccinate and boosted and it's in the economy's interest to keep stores open, restaurants open you. have to have a work force able go to work and isn't breathing all over their co-workers and customers. i wonder where you see the debates now around the vaccine levels. 64.6% of the population's fully vaccinated. just 35.6% of the fully vaccinated are also boosted. >> it's going to be easy for me to keep talking about vaccines and how great they are. i really do think the mandates work. it's not because i feel like i'm some public health mouthpiece. i had three unvaccinated patients. all three of them said i'm not antivaccine, i'm not, i'm not, i'll have to eventually get it because i work in the district of columbia and i'll get it. i said let's get it today. they said, i'll wait until my boss says i have to. they're on the bubble. they've been okay now. i do support the mandate, but i do think we need to include those boosters, and it's not because i want people to get shots that are unnecessary. they're life-saving. was the other conversation. what am i trying to do when i'm trying to convince people dom back for a second shot when i need them to come back for the third shot. we're going to keep our relationship with these patients and hopefully convince them to come in. that was just today. who knows what next week will bring. >> i think you're very per persuavive. thank you. we'll be right back. woman: i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months situat persuavive thank you. we'll be right back. and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ woman: talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. my name is douglas. woi'm a writer/director talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. and i'm still working. in the kind of work that i do, you are surrounded by people who are all younger than you. i had to get help somewhere along the line to stay competitive. i discovered prevagen. i started taking it and after a period of time, my memory improved. it was a game-changer for me. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. at intra-cellular therapies, we're inspired by our circle. a circle that includes our researchers, driven by our award-winning science, who uncover new medicines to treat mental illness. it includes the compassionate healthcare professionals, the dedicated social workers, and the supportive peer counselors we work with to help improve - and even change - people's lives. moving from mental illness to mental wellness starts in our circle. this is intra-cellular therapies. at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. so guess what is two weeks from today? the opening ceremony ahead of the 2022 winter games in beijing, and this afternoon some 400 athletes, journalists, and government officials arrived. this is live tv. no delegation from the u.s. the biden administration is moving ahead with its diplomatic boycott. but our american athletes will complete all the same. here's the gear they'll be wearing. it's nice to have something exciting to look forward to, right, especially in the middle of january. thank you so much for letting us into your homes for another week of shows this week. we are so grateful. "the beat with ari melber" starts with right now. happy friday. >> thank you so much. i'm ari melber. have a significant program tonight. we're tracking breaking news on a white house trump plan that would have asked the pentagon to literally seize vote machines. this is after trump lost. we ooh v reporting to share with you. i'll give you more details on that. we begin with the fight of

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