team set to respond this hour. and questions grow about protections from prior infections versus the vaccine. we'll ask the doctor anything coming up. welcome to "meet the press daily". i'm chuck todd. rest in peace, mr. loaf. the president of the presidency can be summed up in one word, unclear. the path forward on his covid response is unclear. his political stand standing with the public has eroded, and china, iran, and north korea and russia remain mired in conflict and uncertainty with the scramble to head off a russian invasion with ukraine at the top of the list at the moment. the prediction putin will move into ukraine, diplomatic talks between blinken and lavrov were held this morning. they began with russian foreign -- with the russian foreign minister echoing the prediction from earlier in the week that the talks would yield no breakthroughs, and they did not. speaking with reporter after the meeting, blinken made clear the u.s. side did not view the talks as an actual negotiation. >> the discussions today with mr. lavrov was frank and substantive. i conveyed the position of the united states and our european allies and partners that we stand firmly with ukraine in north of the sovereignty and territorial integrity ri. we've been clear. if any russian military forces move across ukraine's border, that's a renewed invasion. it will be met with swift, severe, and a united response from the united states and our partners and allies. and certainly not helping the president's standing overseas is the standing at home. public polling and gridlock in congress point to a growing slice of the american electorate losing faith in the biden presidency. in a moment i'm going to speak with the chair of the senate foreign registrations committee. we're going to start with richard engel with the latest from kiev, and i yan brener, who clearly has his ear to the ground, particularly with our allies in the g-7. richard, let me start with you. is kiev a city that is preparing for war? you've covered other wars and seen other cities batting down. is this a city that is acting as if war is imminent? >> reporter: no, it is not. when you walk around the city, the restaurants are full. people are out. nobody is boarding up windows. you do not get a sense at all that they are preparing. businessmen are not taking their money out of the country or moving their families to remote spots or other areas. there is a sense here among the public, at least, from what i can tell, talking to people, talking to business leaders, that they're not quite sure what to believe. but since they've been in a low grade war with russia for many years now, for eight years, they think that this could be just more of the same. that this is a bluff by putin, that he's trying to extract concessions, but they don't think or many don't think, and you can see based on their actions, that they're not that worried, that there's going to be a full blown invasion. but they're starting to get more suspicious. i'm starting to hear people coming up and asking well, why is it that the foreign press is talking about this and it's not just one media outlet? it's not just nbc or cnn? why is it also the bbc and "the new york times" and it's nont front page of all the european newspapers? yet, here in ukraine, it's barely getting a mention. and when president zlin can i talks about the crisis, he says that people have nothing to worry about. that they should go about their business, that they should have family bbqs. and he said we will all get together in 2023, meaning that this crisis and potentially covid will all pass, and things will get back to normal. and he specifically said that he doesn't see more of a threat to ukraine now than there was a year ago. but people that i'm speaking to are starting to worry well, is the government revealing all that it knows? is the government trying to keep people calm while other discussions go on behind the scenes? but to answer your first question, is this a city that is battering down the hatches? absolutely not. >> richard, i think that's remarkable and fascinating reporting, and is why you have to be there sometimes to understand what's actually going on. let me ask you this. you've got a lot of sources in the ukrainian government and in the larger sort of ukrainian intelligence. it sounds -- the way you're presenting it, are they resigned of letting -- look, if putin wants to an exparts of the country that are not being governed by ukraine anyway, go for it? i don't want -- do they seem resigned to that outcome? is that why there's such calmness? >> reporter: no. i don't think so. it's that sometimes -- and by the way, i've seen this in other conflict or potential conflict areas before. when i was in kabul, by the way, i spoke with people, and many of my friends, and they didn't think the taliban were going to enter the city. they always thought the taliban was far away, and the government in kabul kept telling the people, the taliban are far away. they're never going to enter the city. the government is not going to fall, right up until the point that the president of the country fled the country. so sometimes when you're at the center of the storm and you have seen a conflict before, you're the last person to recognize that a potential conflict might be coming. in a similar way that people who live in areas that are always battered by storms think the last storm is not going to be so bad because they've been through many themselves. >> ian bremmer, react to richard's reporting and put it in context with what you're hearing from our european allies. >> well, first to the extent that there are people that believe that invasion is imminent, and that is increasingly the position of the intelligence community in the united states. they don't think it's coming next week. the americans and the russians are still engaged in diplomacy. the biden administration is going to provide a written response. probably next week, to the demands that were made by the russians a couple weeks ago. on europe and on ukraine and a bunch of security-related issues. as long as they're talking, i don't think anybody credibly thinks the bombs are about to start to fly. you have troops still being positioned for exercises in bell belarus that are scheduled to close on the beijing olympics timing. even if you are convinced that military activity was going to start, you don't think it's going to start in the next few days. but beyond that, i think the united states does have a problem, and it was -- it sort of came out of this press conference given by biden this week which is if there's a full invasion, and the russians are hell bent on removing zelensky from office and thousands of ukrainians die and tanks roll in and air strikes, nato is going to get stronger. the nato response is going to be incredibly aligned. it's going to be a military response in terms of positioning of forces, permanent bases in the baltics and the likes, and an enormous economic response. but if it's not that. if it's more cyber attacks, some of which we saw last week and there was no international response. if it's not that and it's annexing and sending troops and tanks in to defend russians that putin falsely says are being attacked by the ukrainian government, then i am not at all convinced that the europeans are standing closely with the americans in a response. i saw in the last 48 hours the french government, french president macron who is in his own election campaign right now, saying that europe needs its own security relationship and negotiations with the russians over the coming months. i saw the german chancellor just earlier today refuse an invitation from president biden, quite strangely, to talk about ukraine face to face. that doesn't give you -- that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence that nato is hanging together no matter what the russians do. and putin reads, too. >> was it a mistake by president biden and the administration to treat what he said as a gaffe? i say this because couldn't he have flipped it and said yeah, we want the europeans to toughen up here. we want to be tougher on them than they do. step it up. would that have been counter productive? >> i think he still both hopes and believes that the europeans are going to be in a stronger place and brought to a stronger place. the americans can unilaterally sanction all the companies that are involved in the big gas line to germany from russia that avoids ukraine. and i feel fairly confident if there's any military intervention, the americans would do that. i think that's when anthony blinken says that no matter what happens, there's going to be a tough response, i think he's reflecting that unilateralism from the united states which is quite capable. but let's remember that when biden was criticized, incluing by me in the execution on afghanistan j a lot of that criticism was we aren't engaging with our allies. we just surprise them with this. and on this front, biden is truly engaging. he wants a united front. he is reaching out to every nato ally and some of them are giving america what we need. and some of them are falling short. and that's a challenging position to be in. >> yes. especially when some of them are germany. richard, a terrific way to start off and to set up my next guest as i'm curious of his response to what we heard. report big the both of you. i'm joined by the chair of the foreign relations committee. senator, let's start with the issue of this idea, you've called it the mother of all sanctions bills. at the end of the day, if the europeans are not aligned with the united states, and how to deal with putin, are we stuck basically in a position of weakness comparatively? >> well, chuck, it's always better to have multilateral efforts, including multilateral sanctions. and i do believe that there is a difference between the posturing of what some think might provoke putin versus at the end of the day, the response if putin does make the mistake of invading ukraine. i think the response will be strong and swift. but ultimately, we have the wherewithal in the sanctions bill that i've authored, and in the negotiations we're having with republicans to come together on a different components to speak with one voice, and send a very clear message that, in fact, we stand with ukraine and there will be severe consequences to invoke those severe consequences unilaterally. and we have seen from the iran experience, that when we do that, other countries and their companies will shy away from engaging in this case it would be russia, because of the secondary nature of the sanctions. >> let me ask you this. if tony blinken says this will be resolved diplomatically, how is it resolved diplomatically without rewarding putin for his aggression at the border of ukraine? >> well, you can ultimately have a diplomatic solution that respects ukraine's territorial sovereignty and independence, as well as the neighbors in the baltic and others. and sure, their ultimate security and freedom. by the same time, if russia believes that there are actions being taken that they consider undermine their security, there are commitments that can be made as it relates to security. that's not about not extending nato. that's not about withdrawing from the baltic. that's not about deciding ukraine's future in nato. but there are other elements of agreements that can be arrived. if at the end of the day that is the true concern of putin. and only putin knows that. with 100,000 plus troops -- i was listening to the report of richard saying there isn't uneasiness in kiev. i know za len ski wants to keep the population calm, but he needs to keep them informed. there's a reason for 100,000 troops. it's. >> let me ask you about the timing of the sanctions bill. there's an extensive piece on foreign policy that talked about your bill. calls it a strong bill and said it needs strong bipartisan support in order to send the message putin thinks our divided politics is something he can take advantage of. is this bill going to be passed and signed into law basically ready to go before putin acts? or are you going to be stuck having to pass this in a reactionary stance? >> well, it is my hope that it's before putin acts. now, we're not in session this coming week. but we are working as we speak with various republican colleagues who have their ideas as to how to deter putin. we're taking to amalgamate them into the legislation that i sponsor which is being introduced today by chairman meeks in the house of representatives, so it will be bicameral as well. and we want a strong bipartisan effort. and it is my hope that what we'll do is have a negotiation that we can announce and then move toward a vote when we return. and hopefully a week is not the timeframe in which putin decides to invade. but in any event, he should understand that there is overwhelming bipartisan support for ukraine in the congress. it is strong. it's a question of whether or not you make it even stronger, whether or not you make sanctions even quicker. but at the end of the day, there is no lack of resolve. and that much putin should know. >> you're the ranking member. republican senator from idaho. how much of -- how much are you going to incorporate? he'd like some things added to your bill. how much things are you planning on incorporating? >> we're? discussions with ranking member risch. we're in discussions with senator cornyn who has an idea of lend/lease program. and very recently this week, authorized a transfer of american-made weapons from baltic states to ukraine including javelin missiles that can stop tanks and other efforts being taken by allies. but that can be a good effort. senator rubio has some ideas. senator graham has some ideas. i believe there are good ideas in all of them, and we can, i think, bring it together in a common cause. because there is a common spirit to stand behind ukraine and the message to putin. >> let me ask one last question to you and it has to do with the olympics. we have a diplomatic boycott of dhie china. what kind of protections -- what are we doing to make sure our athletes don't get stuck in china maybe because of draconian covid protocols? if there's a diplomatic boycott, what's the role of the u.s. government to make sure our citizens aren't -- as citizen athletes, they aren't harassed? >> well, a diplomatic boycott means we're not sending officials of the united states government to the olympics. but we still have a presence in china. we still have an embassy. we still have a full engagement. and we will work to protect any citizen who ultimately is either harassed or got forbid, detained by the chinese. the chinese know that, and the world's worst thing for the chinese in the midst of an already rather negative olympics in terms of their standing in the world, what they're doing to uyghurs in concentration camps and in hong kong, the threats to taiwan, the last thing they need is to detain american olympians. >> i hope -- i think we all hope you're right about that. senator menendez, appreciate you coming on. sharing your perspective with us. >> good to be with you. simplnchts well, we got a real pressure cooker going on here. and as i said, we'll have more on russia's aggression coming up with colonel alexander vinman who was on the phone with the ukraine call. the perfect call, so he claims. he'll join me ahead. later new troubles were trump over a different phone call. we'll talk to a legal expert about the charges the former president could face as the investigation into his effort to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia heats up with some potential serious consequences. you're watching "meet the press daily". s s daily" i have friends. [ chuckles ] well, he may have friends, but he rides alone. that's jeremy, right there! we're literally riding together. he gets touchy when you talk about his lack of friends. can you help me out here? no matter why you ride, progressive has you covered with protection starting at $79 a year. well, we're new friends. to be fair. eh, still. new year, new start. and now comcast business is making it easy to get going with the ready. set. save. sale. get started with fast and reliable internet and voice for $64.99 a month with a 2-year price guarantee. it's easy... with flexible installation and backing from an expert team, 24/7. and for even more value, ask how to get up to a $500 prepaid card. get a great deal for your business with the ready. set. save. sale today. comcast business. the pandemic made teaching and learning really hard. but instead of working to help students safely return to the classroom, the san francisco school board focused on renaming schools and playing politics. and they've even saddled our district with a $125 million deficit. our children can't wait for new leadership. here's our chance for a fresh start. on february 15th, please recall school board members collins, lópez and moliga before our kids fall even further behind. well, let me just say chunks is an interesting word. so what the president calls chunks, i would hope would be a major bill going forward. it may be more limited, but it is still significant. >> welcome back. that was house speaker nancy pelosi. gentle reaction pushback to president biden's plan to pursue chunks of his stalled build back better agenda in congress while pelosi wants something for substantial, joe manchin is tapping the brakes. the west virginia senator told senators from his perspective, it's time to start from scratch. leigh ann caldwell has the latest on capitol hill. let's put it in terms here. right now we have this debate this morning. well, what is going to get to the president's desk next? so i put it to you. it feels like there's a little bit of momentum for the electoral reform act. there's at least momentum to begin a new discussion about some sort of social safety yet bill. is it aimed at kids solely, et cetera? and maybe somebody takes up mitt romney on his idea to say hey, you really want the child tax care credit, try my way. what is coming next? what has movement? what do you know? >> reporter: there's lots of ideas. things are still very far away from reaching the pooth's desk. let's go issue by issue. let's start with build back better and where that is. as far as chunks are concerned, obviously speaker pelosi didn't like that. she must not be a ben and jerry's ice cream fan, but she knows the senate rules. even though she's speaker of the house, that you can't do this in many different parts if they want to do it with just democrats, a simple majority. they're trying to figure out what senator manchin will approve, and one of the difficult things is he doesn't support the child tax credit which so many moderate and progressive democrats really want in this legislation. so maybe it's something scaled back. they want climate change provisions. this is key to their agenda. but they're taking a break right now as far as recess is concerned. they'll be back in about a week and a half. and i anticipate that that is when these talks will really start to ramp up again. the electoral college act -- i'm told this bipartisan group is expanding actually getting bigger. they're going to have their second official meeting on this issue on monday. and also, the scope of the legislation is getting bigger. not just focusing on the electoral college count, but also vote counting in the states and threats and harassment against co-workers. this could be a more broad bill. but my sources caution me that that, too, has a long way to go. and you know, we'll see getting back to the child tax credit, i don't see much of a path of bipartisanship on this, especially in an election year. democrats seem like they want to do everything, at least this part, their economic agenda, alone, chuck. . >> leigh ann, i remember about four months ago, there was talk of hey, he could technically do two reconciliations before the end of the calendar year in 2022. well, we haven't seen one yet. is the idea of two still on the table? >> yeah. and they do have two, but that's two chunks, not five chunks. so that is still a possibility, chuck. >> fair enough. leigh ann on capitol hill for us. i can always tell when they're in recess. your echoes are more echoey when the members all leave. >> reporter: the only one here. >> all right. well, that's why you've got all the scoop. thanks very much. up next, not another moment to waste. the latest effort to combat covid. and how progressives feel about the pandemic and the president's response and what it means for the midterms. you're watching "meet the press daily". e press daily" and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ hi i'm joe montana. when you get to be 65, you have little patience for nonsense and inefficiency. you know what works and you become a pro at pretty much everything. ♪ ♪ that's why when i qualified for medicare, i went with wellcare. ♪ ♪ with no cost or low monthly premium plans, and no primary care or prescription copays. they're pros at helping you keep more money in your pocket. ♪ ♪ yeah! other benefits include an over-the-counter allowance for items like toothpaste, cold remedies, and mouthwash. a flex card to pay for extra dental, vision, and hearing expenses. even giveback plans that send money directly to your social security check. you heard it straight from joe the pro montana himself, legendary quarterback and actual wellcare member. wellcare is a no-nonsense medicare insurance provider that's committed to giving you great benefits like $0 or low monthly premiums, and $0 or low copays on prescriptions and primary care visits, just to name a few. and all of that comes without any of the hassles. so beat that! don't wait! be like joe the pro and make the right call. hey, how are you doing? appreciate it. ♪ ♪ yeah! wellcare gets it. they get rid of all the hassles and give us the great benefits that we want. dial the number on your screen now to request a free wellcare guide today. or visit our website at enrollwellcare.com. that's enrollwellcare.com. wellcare. it's medicare done well. this is the new world of work. each day looks different than the last. but whatever work becomes, the servicenow platform will make it just, flow. whether it's finding new ways to help you serve your customers, orchestrating a safe return to the office... wait. an office? what's an office? ...or solving a workplace challenge that's yet to come. wherever the new world of work takes your business, the world works with servicenow. welcome back. biden's first year in office has been defined by the progress the u.s. has made and hasn't made on covid. this week marked the first time americans were able to order free at-home covid tests from the government and was extraordinarily simple. after criticism that the online ordering process left lower income americans unable to access the test, they're setting up a phone hotline. it's on the screen right now. hoping to increase testing equity. look, if you haven't gone online, it's a simple process. if you get access online. if you can't, call this number. with omicron surging across the country, do americans feel the white house is doing enough. we talked to progressive voters in wisconsin about how they feel about the white house's covid response. >> reporter: chuck, look, these are not just any voters. these are true blue democrats. i talked to people who voted for president biden who most say they still support president biden and don't blame him for where we are, but are frustrated and fatigued by the status of this pandemic. and that's having a dampening effect of how they're viewing the federal response to to it. >> i think the biggest problem i have with the biden administration right now is that the last guy just lied. and now this guy is saying all these things that contradict each other like the cdc is not making clear recommendations to the american people about what they should be doing. >> play by the rules. i got my vaccine and booster as soon as i could. but i want my life back. so i'd be interested to see more of like a long-term plan for how we're going to get out of this. >> reporter: now, despite that frustration, there is somewhat of an opportunity based on my conversations for president biden. one thing that we saw in the nbc news poll is there was a 10% drop in support and approval among democratic voters. many of them telling me if this pandemic feels as if it's turning around, that could lead to an increase in enthusiasm right on time for the midterm elections. >> shaquille brewster on the ground for us in wisconsin. thank you. for more on where we are on covid in this country, i'm joined by dr. celine gunshot wounder, an epidemiologist and former member of the biden transition covid team. you wrote a piece about the new normal. so you've heard -- look, i got a poll that's going to show trust in the public health federal level is plummeting. and it's starting to look across the board. you just heard that report from there. what would your advice be to the public health folks you were working with during the transition to help us get to the new normal? >> i think this administration did a fabulous job in the first six months of 2021 with vaccine rollout, but then we started to see vaccination rates start to plateau in the spring, and we started to see breakthrough infections, particularly with the emergence of delta. it's not that the vaccines don't work. they work as they're intended to work. which is to prevent severe disease, hospitalization and death. but that should have been a wakeup call that we needed to have a strategy that was broader than vaccines, that there were limitations to what vaccines can and cannot do. and that those limitations are even amly if ied further by the fact that part of the population remains even today some one-third of the united states remains unvaccinated. and so if you want to return to a seblance of normalcy, it's going to require making use of other tools. >> were you surprised that the administration has been very reticent? they got two vaccine approvals on the mandate. it's almost like everybody whispered this one that did. it should have been a blueprint about how to go about getting more mandates, use what this court is going to see is constitutional. it seems as if they want no part of that. is that your sense? >> mandates continue to remain very controversial. so i think there is some skittishness about how to employ them. we do know that they work. we have seen, for example, with influenza, that without mandates in certain workplaces, for example, me as a doctor working in the hospital, without mandates, you never hit more than 50% of the adults vaccinated. mandates do work in terms of getting more people vaccinated. there are additional options that could -- that could be on the table whether that is school mandates which are really imposed at a local level. new york city, for example, as its own requirements. so other states and cities could go that route. but the federal government has increasingly fewer such options. >> let me ask you this. just a few sort of help people read some headlines and get some details of it. the vaccine for those under five, we heard the president asked about it. we know that dr. fauci said he hopes it will be improved in the next month or so. is that your understanding of the timeline? do we think maybe before the end of winter? >> i think probably end of winter, early spring we will finally see either pfizer or moderna vaccines being approved in younger age groups. so i certainly think that come the spring, kids under five will become eligible for vaccination as well. >> there was a study that's been out that says during delta, during the delta wave, and i'd like some clarification, that natural infection proved to be more resilient than the vaccine. explain. >> so i think we have to be very careful with that data. what i would say is natural infection, prior infection, is about equivalent to one dose of vaccine in terms of the immunity you get from that. it is not equivalent to two doses or full vaccination. we may see in the near future some changes in guidelines, though, to count prior infection as one dose of vaccine. you would still need an additional dose to be considered fully vaccinated. >> well, and the definition of fully vaccinated, you want to talk about to me the biggest problem the cdc has with credibility with the public, it's that. nobody can tell me even our own company is not -- what is the definition of fully vaccinated? >> as of right now, the definition of fully vaccinated remains having had one dose of j&j or two doses of the pfizer and moderna mrna vaccines. the cdc just released new di a today looking at boosters. so that would really be a third dose of pfizer and moderna or additional dose after j&j. for people over the age of 50, we are seeing a clear benefit in terms of preventing severe disease, hospitalization and death, but we're not seeing that in the under 50, so it's really not clear that it would make sense to say everyone under 50 also needs to get a booster. >> that's interesting. is that something we could see in age, an age definition fully vaccinated over 50 is booster. under 50 not so? >> i think that's certainly what the science would suggest we should do. >> all right. doctor, it's always great to have an expert onto answer questions. we see headlines, to getting context. thank you as always. well, it's cold and lonely in the deep, dark night. what charges could former president trump potentially be facing in the georgia investigation? that's next, you're watching "meet the press daily". "meet the press daily" i absolutely have to be sharp. let me tell ya, i was struggling with my memory. it was going downhill. my friend recommended that i try prevagen and over time, it made a very significant difference in my memory and in my cognitive ability. i started to feel a much better sense of well-being. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. inner voice (sneaker shop owner): i'm surprising my team with a preview of the latest sneaker drop. because i can answer any question about any shoe. but i'm stumped when it comes to payroll. intuit quickbooks helps you easily run payroll in less than 5 minutes... ...so you can stay... one step ahead. ♪ life can be a lot to handle. ♪ this magic moment ♪ but heinz knows there's plenty of magic in all that chaos. ♪ so different and so new ♪ ♪ was like any other... ♪ welcome back. an investigation to former president trump's conduct in office appears to be ramping up. it's not in washington. it's not in manhattan and not with the attorney general in new york. it's in georgia. there's a request for a special grand jury. they're looking in the call with the former governor where trump pressured him to find enough votes to carry the state. he has not yet testified but told me on "meet the press" in october he would request to a grand jury summons. >> if she wants to interview me, there's a process for that. i will gladly participate in that because i want to follow the law and constitution, and when you get a grand jury summons, you respond to it. >> joining me now is georgia state law professor clark cunningham. clark, look, a lot of people are very familiar with how new york or the federal government works when it comes to trump. why would she need a special grand jury? why wouldn't you use and panel any grand jury she may already have in place? >> well, in her letter requesting the special grand jury, the district attorney gave several reasons for this. one is that a special grand jury can have a longer term. she's asking for the grand jury to sit 12 months. a group that's dedicated specifically and only to this particular project. whereas a general grand jury would have to deal with all kinds of crimes that are coming up at any point along the way. so this group is able to focus entirely on the investigation of possible criminal interference with the georgia election. it's also a special group assigned to handle it and handle any legal issues in the term of office. it's a very powerful investigative tool. >> walk me through in the georgia criminal code, what the former president could be facing. >> well, the district attorney gave us kind of a preview last february. she sent letters around to a number of the georgia officials asking them to preserve evidence. at that point, she said that she was investigating solicitation of election fraud. which is a felony. and that making a false statements from a state and local government body. conspiracy, racketeering, violation of oath and office, and involvement in violence or threats related to the election and administration. and many of these are bundled together under that reference to racketeering. >> got you. >> it's pretty clear they are interested in using georgia's version of riko to investigate whether, i would say the so-called stop the steal campaign was a criminal enterprise. and perhaps arguably the office of the president under donald trump was a corrupt organization for purposes of that criminal statute. >> i'm going to play the infamous excerpt of the georgia phone call in a minute and ask you a question on the other side. let's play that. >> sure. >> the ballots are corrupt. and you're going to find that they are -- which is totally illegal. it's more illegal for you that be it is for them, because you know what they did, and you're not reporting it. that's a criminal -- that's a criminal offense. and you can't let that happen. that's a big risk to you and to ryan. your lawyer. that's a big risk. so look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,7 80 votes -- which is one more than we have, because we won the state. so what are we going to do? i only need 11,000 votes. fellas, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break. >> is there anything else she needs as evidence? i say there, there's a threat in there. it doesn't seem even very veiled, and it appears he's soliciting election fraud. obviously supporting evidence only can strengthen your case, but how strong of a piece of evidence is simply that? >> i gather former president trump yesterday referred to this phone call as perfect. it seems to me it was perfectly incriminating. i think it's very, very hard to listen to that recording and read that transcript and understand that anything is happening other than repeatedly president trump is asking the secretary of state to alter the election results just enough by one vote is all he needs so that he carries georgia. at one point he says, there's nothing wrong with saying, you know, that you've recalculated. that's solicitation of election fraud. >> very quickly, how long do you expect -- you said this special grand jury would be impanelled up to a year. is that how long you think this will be? >> i don't think anyone could tell you. i don't think the district attorney is going to tell you. but i suspect she's a very, very experienced attorney. prosecutor. and i think it's quite likely that they're going to kind of work up the chain of command. that's kind of the way you prosecute criminal enterprises. she may go after somebody like, say, mark meadows and indict him. and hope that he may cooperate and provide information that would allow her to prosecute people up the ladder to giuliani or to donald trump himself. >> it's going to be fascinating. he's tried to fight subpoenas from congress. now one from fulton county. anyway, really appreciate having you on there. georgia state law professor clark cunningham. thank you. still to come, is the time bomb ticking? i'm joined by alexander vinman on how he believes the u.s. should respond with russia invades ukraine. you're watching "meet the press daily". you're watching "meet the press you're watching "meet the press daily" [bacon sizzles] ♪ [electronic music plays] ♪ woo! allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from [bacon sizzles] ♪ [electronic music plays] ♪ overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. well, would you look at that? jerry, you gotta see this. seen it. trust me, after 15 walks... gets a little old. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! ugh. unbelievable. we've heard russian officials say that they have no intention of invading ukraine. in fact mr. lavrov repeated that to me today. but, again, we're looking at what is visible to all. and it is deeds and actions, not words, that make the difference. >> and parsing words is something you've always got to do when you hear the russians. what do they believe is the sovereign part of ukraine? as secretary blinken made clear today, russia may say they have no intention of invading but it may not be a question of if they enter ukraine but when and to what extent. alexander vindman is now a board member for the renew democracy initiative. colonel vindman, you wrote a compelling piece in "foreign affairs" and you imply the best leverage we have right now, it's too late. we could have done some things in the spring that might have put us in a better position. do you feel like putin is testing the defense and when lavrov says he has no intention of invading ukraine, that he doesn't consider the separatist part of ukraine as ukraine? >> that's part of it. the russians are lying. the activity of their forces on ukraiian territory, if president putin is willing to lie like he did in 2017 when he said russian troops weren't in ukraine, then of course the bar is that much lower for lavrov or any other subordinate leader. so their actions do speak louder than words, just like secretary blinken said. and at this point we're all but certainly locked in on this trajectory towards war. the respective parties, the ukraine, the u.s., and russia, have marked out positions that are extremely difficult to reverse course on. for ukraine, it would probably mean the end of zelenskiy's tenure. i think there's a good chance he could get recalled by his parliament. for the u.s., it would double down on perceptions of foreign policy failure after afghanistan, not saying that that was a bad decision, just the way it was executed. >> i understand. >> and it would make things difficult going into 2022. putin has the most flexibility because he is an authoritarian leader and he can reverse course. but instead he's positioning more forces for a massive military incursion into ukraine that's going to happen within days, days meaning the next couple of weeks, middle of february, end of february. >> what's your level of concern that if he just does, you know, basically the russian parliament passes a law that annexes separatist part of ukraine, the donbas region, that area, and that's what they do, how concerned are you that the europeans are not going to want to be as tough as the united states wants to be? >> first of all, that's a low probability scenario, because it doesn't achieve his objective of achieving a failed state in ukraine which is what he needs. that would be kicking the can down the road, a face-saving measure. i think there's a reasonable probability because of what exists between us and our allies, that the response would be relatively weak. but that's not what's going to drive this. he has a mission, he needs to really wreck ukraine and leave the possibility of pulling it back into his orbit and the only way he does that is with something far more robust. all the signals he's getting from the u.s. and europe right now suggest that there are going to be manageable consequences. even severe sanctions are manageable. a lot of these things are manageable. we have not sent strong signals to deter what's going to be a seismic geopolitical event and we probably haven't done everything we need to to deal with the consequences of a humanitarian crisis, tens of thousands of refugees flowing, cities being devastated. we need to start preparing for these contingencies and do everything we can. this is coming. >> colonel vindman, it's a pretty sobering piece that you wrote in "foreign affairs." i recommend anybody interested in this to read it thoroughly. really appreciate you coming on. i wish we had more time. president biden is speaking in front of the u.s. conference of mayors and we are very curious to hear what topics he talks about, other, of course, than infrastructure. take a listen. >> and so you think i'm kidding. it's not a joke. mayors carry the quality of the people's lives on your shoulders. everything you do every day affects their lives more than almost anybody else does. you can make or break a person's day. will the bus get me home on time. it sounds silly but will the garbage be picked up. will i be safe walking in the park. these are the biggest questions. can i afford to give my family a good life. will my kids have a chance to get a good job some day. how will i rebuild from the fire or the storm. all of these questions, they're not partisan. but they're practical. people you look to are you, they're the people you look to, are you, for real. you know there's no way to walk into the corner drugstore without being accosted immediately as to what's going on, right? well, so you know what it means to solve real problems, to be held accountable for the people you serve. that's why when i put together my cabinet, i called on former mayors, and i mean this sincerely. [ applause ] take a look. tom vilsack who was a governor, was also a mayor. marty walsh, a mayor of boston. pete buttigieg, a mayor. i picked mitch landrieu to oversee the administration of the law because he knows how mayors get things done. [ cheers and applause ] no, i mean it. not a joke. because mayors know the measure of success isn't scoring partisan points. it's did you fix the problem. did you -- seriously, think about it. did you fix the problem. infrastructure law is a perfect example of what we can achieve when we tackle problems the way mayors do. everybody in america, everybody in america knows we've fallen behind in infrastructure. so we came together, democrats and republicans, and did something about it. a number of really brave -- and i'm not being facetious, brave republicans stood up with us in a bipartisan effort to get it done. and by the way, i want to thank you all. more than 360 of you signed a letter sent to me, when we were trying to get this legislation passed, 360 of you. you lobbied congress to get it done. and it's the reason it got done. not a joke. it's the reason it got done, because of you. [ applause ] a lot of people wanted to vote for it but they had a lot of pressure not to vote for it for political reasons. but because of you, they voted for it, we got it done, because they know, they know how it goes in your cities, it will determine how their states go. now, after years of dead ends and broken promises, not only has infrastructure week finally arrived -- [ applause ] -- but we can literally look forward to an infrastructure decade. that's not hyperbole. back in 2009 when president obama asked me to lead the recovery effort, which was an $800 billion effort, and the first thing i did, i went to the mayors, not a joke. now, most of you are too young to have been around in 2008. but look, i spoke to over 200 mayors, putting that together. because of them, because of you, we came through that moment together. that's the same approach mitch has taken, having been a former mayor, with all of you. i know mitch has spoken to many of you already, and in just two months we've already seen this law start to make a real difference, creating better jobs, transforming our communities in tangible ways. we've announced billions of dollars for highways, ports, airports, water and sewage systems, high speed internet. funding to clean up the rivers in ohio, chemical plants and sites in florida, polluted lakes in michigan, and dozens of other sites. a new program to cap and plug orphan oil and gas wells, spewing contaminants in the air. good paying jobs. folks who dug those wells when we needed them, they got paid well. now they're getting paid to plug those wells. it matters. it matters. a new initiative to bolster our energy grid with stronger transmission lines and towers to keep it flowing. a more secure energy supply. you know, i've flown all over the country these last -- this last year, visiting sites that have been damaged by the consequences of environmental changes. you know, more forest, homes, buildings, businesses, have been turned to the ground in square miles than the entire state of new jersey, from new york all the way down to cape hope. that's how much has burned to the ground. a lot of it