rallying cry. quote, no celebration without legislation. king's eldest son calling for action. >> holiday should be a day on, not a day off. today we're not here to celebrate, we are here to be on. we're here to call on president biden and the senate to pass the freedom to vote john r. lewis act, and to warn that our democracy stands on the brink of serious trouble. history will be watching what happens tomorrow. black and brown americans will be watching what happens tomorrow. in 50 years, students will read about what happens tomorrow and know whether our leaders had the integrity to do the right thing. >> that is the larger call at the higher altitude. now, down in the weeds of governing, democratic leaders are rallying for action against an obstruction that's green-lit mostly by republicans in two democratic holdouts, which has this scene starting the week where democratic leaders claim they're continuing to try to apply pressure, but it already feels like they've hit a brick wall. >> voter suppression and election subversion. >> i want to honor dr. king. don't dishonor him by using a congressional custom as an excuse for protecting our democracy. >> where do we stand? whose side are we on? >> there's no me for me to restate my longstanding support for the 60-vote threshold to pass legislation. >> so i ask our colleagues in the senate respectfully for what they think the filibuster means, to compare that to weigh the equities against our democracy, because nothing less is at stake than our democracy. >> it's time for every american to stand up, speak out, be heard. >> and that's why today's push is a bit surreal. democrats do not have the votes to reform the filibuster obstruction of these voting bills, which means they won't get an updated voting rights bill to the senate floor unless something changes. that means this holiday steeped in history and progress is serving to mark one way that the history of antiobstruction is in a very real way repeating itself right here on this holiday. it was martin luther king himself who diagnosed the exact same antidemocratic forces over 50 years ago, how made up rules like the filibuster thwarted civil rights and majority rule itself. >> the tragedy is that we have a congress with a senate that has a minority of misguided senators who will use the filibuster to keep the majority of people from even voting. they won't let the majority senators vote. and certainly they wouldn't want the majority of people to vote because they know they do not represent the majority of the american people. in fact, they represent in their own states a very small minority. >> counselor maya wiley and congressman hakeem jeffries are both here. congressman, we listened to dr. king's words today. you heard him there say, because they know, they don't actually reflect the majority or the will of the people. where does that land with you right now? >> well, the more things change, the more they remain the same, certainly we're so appreciative and thankful for the life and legacy of dr. king for his struggle. his strugy did lead to tremendous progress. so though we confront obstacles right now that are in front of us, dr. king and our civil rights heroes, they overcame tremendous turbulence. bull connor in birmingham, that's turbulence. sheriff jim clark in selma, that's turbulence. george wallace in dixie, that's turbulence. so we have some obstacles that are in front of us. but i do think on this king day, we can draw inspiration for what dr. king and our civil rights heroes and foot soldiers fought through to make america a better place. >> maya? >> well, hakeem said it so well. i don't know if i can top that. but i think it's critical, because one of the things that dr. king wrote on a letter from the birmingham jail was the commitment to demonstration and protest, and even that commitment in the face of those, including eight white pastors who, frankly, took pen to paper to say that they would not support the activism that was actually changing unjust laws in the country. and dr. king said something very important. he said, it is not the opposition of our enemies that we will remember, it is the silence of our friends. and i think that's the moment we're in now, where there is a level of commitment in this country to voting rights, to equal rights, to justice for every single person in this country, and to so many of us the majority of this country who support these things, and we are not seeing that voice played out inside the halls of the senate. but this is the reality as we the people are still here, we're still demonstrating, and i think that's what we saw from the family. we aren't going away. and dr. king would have it no other way. >> yeah, and you both speak to the tension here between what hasn't changed and using democracy and people's rights to try to effect change, which brings us to the next piece i wanted to get into in depth that i know both of you have thought a lot about. so our panel stays here as we turn to a different part of accountability in our mlk holiday coverage right now, which is america's long complex relationship with dr. king himself. this is a time for factual history, not sugar coating. dr. king was a nonviolent activist. he advocated peace and universal human rights. yet, we should also bear in mind and recall that he was reviled by much of america, and specifically, by many white americans in his time. many viewed him as more criminal or agitator than someone meriting the national recognition he gets today. there are many examples, but here's one that is measurable. he had the extremely high disapproval rate of about 75% at his death. and the calls to create today's holiday remained controversial into the '70s. it took a campaign and national effort, among many other pushes to get today to become a holiday, which didn't happen until 1983. many americans now hear about king as a hero or an icon, and he definitely does poll above 25% these days. and that has created a world where -- and this is what i want to get into with our experts tonight -- where even the people opposing the very voting laws he passed say things like this. >> when i witness dr. martin luther king's march on washington speech as an intern back in 1963, i dreamed about doing big things to help my state and our country. >> voting rights activists noting the lip service to dr. king's legacy by people who are undermining not only voting rights in general but the work of these underlying laws that are literally still the most severe, serious, strong voting rights and civil rights legislation that we have of '64 and '65. i just showed you the republican senate leader. he struck a similar note as a newer senator republican josh hawley touts mlk for paving the way. he was the first senator to join the january 6th plot to decertify trump's loss. just as senator cruz now says he salutes king's sacrifices, he's among that list of election deniers. and this is not just about one party. manchin has touted mlk as a revolutionary leader, given that he is siding with the establishment to even minor tweaks to senate rules or take the democrats of the month, senator sinema who has touted king's ally in marching on those very issues, john lewis, calling him a hero, rest in power, my friend. but she is using her power right now to block king's call to end the filibuster against voting rights. that draw was something that i should say drew specifically from martin luther king iii himself. >> and we believe that as it relates to getting this -- these bills passed that senator sinema has been one of the challengers. >> and then, finally, before i bring our experts back, again, i'm trying to be heal here on an important day. there is also the celebration, the almost glorification of the peace part of dr. king's message, which, while inspiring and wonderful, can not always land well in a time of so much violence. consider the house republican leader who seeps to focus quite a bit on the idea that, well, king dealt love out even in the face of hate. >> in the face of those who beat him and whipped him and set up a system that allowed the continuation of slavery, he knew in his heart the words of dr. martin luther king before they were ever spoken. let no man pull you so low as to hate him. >> take it all together here, looking at leaders in both parties, and i see two implications. one, the efforts to enlighten american public understanding to honor king as a patriotic leader, not a criminal, that's been working over time. that's precisely what's created this pressure to so many politicians to honor king or pretend they walk with him. symbolism, patriotism, history, it all matters. and the fact that progressives and civil rights leaders have made strides. and then, number two, substance also matters, and today we see many republicans and some democrats offering lip service for what they will not deliver in law with their power. dr. king was very literally calling for voting rights, for majority votes, for an end to filibuster obstruction. you cannot accurately claim to march with him when you are walking the other way. our panelists come back as we continue to try to honor this holiday in a real way, a reality-based way. your thoughts, maya? >> get his name out your mouth. and i say that with heartfelt emotion. it is simply wrong to have watched the insurrection that we saw on january 6th, violent insurrection, perpetrated as we have now been seeing this most recent indictment from oath keepers who formed after barack obama was elected president, that we are seeing nothing short of the direct challenge, it isn't even only to democracy in the form of voting, it is to the very nature of a pluralist country that has people of different races, different creeds, from all over the world. it is fundamentally a threat to whether it is okay that the demographics of this country are changing. and, so, to be willing to use the symbolism of dr. king as you protect and as you give credence to both the lie and the fears that it is driving in a country that needs to be pulled together is nothing short of offensive. >> congressman? >> maya's exactly correct. my republican colleagues are talking out of both sides of their mouth. on the one hand, they want to elevate the life and legacy of dr. king, but, on the other hand, they are denigrating his mission by failing to support the effort to make sure that every single american has the right to vote. i'm hopeful that manchin and sinema will come together and do the right thing in the next few days. i know many of my senate democratic colleagues continue to talk to them. we'll see what happens. but it's important to understand that republicans have adopted voter suppression as an electoral technique because they've come to the conclusion that the only way the radical right can consistently win elections is not through the contest of ideas, it's by stopping certain communities, low-income communities, communities of color, young people from fully being able to participate in our democracy. that is what we're up against. but as dr. king said, the arc of the moral universe is long. >> what do you see happening in the senate and the rest of this week? we heard from the speaker there putting the pressure on. >> a variety of different proposals, as i understand it, in terms of reforming the filibuster with the end objective in making sure that the john robert lewis voting rights act and the freedom to vote act get an up or down vote to determine whether a majority in the senate exists. there are a few different pathways to deal with filibuster reform, which is an instrument, a senate rule that is dripping in a racist history trying to uplift jim crow and segregation. we do need to reform and get rid of it. that is something that i believe will eventually happen. but this week, i think the path has to be a voting rights exception, some opportunity to allow these critical pieces of voting rights legislation to get an up or down vote. >> congressman and maya, appreciate you both as we try to both reflect this day, which matters, and also look beyond history to what's happening right now. i appreciate both of you. coming up, we have the maga riot probe update. neal katyal is here. and later, why democrats say they're going to start the year going on offense. and by the end of the hour the rabbi in the texas synagogue hostage situation discussing that dramatic rescue. stay with us. stay with us my name is douglas. i'm a writer/director and i'm still working. in the kind of work that i do, you are surrounded by people who are all younger than you. i had to get help somewhere along the line to stay competitive. i discovered prevagen. i started taking it and after a period of time, my memory improved. it was a game-changer for me. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. my daughter has type 2 diabetes and 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[music: “you can get it if you really want” by jimmy cliff] on a day about democracy, an update on the probe into preserving american democracy, january 6th investigators are looking at whether to send a criminal referral to the justice department to deal with alleged criminal conduct by donald trump himself. he was out over the weekend in arizona discussing many things including election lies, floating the idea that someone else may have been responsible for the january 6th attack, which is false. all this in the wake of the justice department's charges of seditious conspiracy, which are the most serious to date. there's new questions about how high the charges might go. "the washington post" reporting fbi agents have not tried to interview or get materials from some of those trump figures who were headquartered at the willard hotel, the trump campaign has also not received any requests for documents or interviews. as we follow down the trail, we are joined by former acting solicitor general neal katyal. thanks for being here, sir. >> thank you. good to see you. >> good to see you. you have been heard from by some of our viewers in some forums. but it's your first time back on "the beat" since the seditious conspiracy charges were filed. your view of how serious those are, just as a first big development. >> they're really serious, ari. they're one of the most serious crimes in the united states code, seditious conspiracy overthrowing the government, it's great that the justice department has brought these charges and brought them against these oath keepers, these folks who were stoking the violence on january 6th. so that's great, and it's also great that the justice department has brought roughly 700 indictments against those who went and attacked the capitol. what's not so great in what you were just excerpting from "the washington post" is reporting that the investigation is limited to those folks and potentially not reaching higher-ups. now, the attorney general gave a speech, a very lauded speech on january 5th, which was great, which said he's going to pursue the evidence where it leads and the like. but we're now a year past january 6th, and we've seen no signs of an investigation into trump or the coup lotters around him like steve bannon, that whole cast of characters. >> so what do you think the attorney general's reasoning is at this point if he's overseeing this type of probe and that's where things are at? >> yeah. so there's three possibilities. one is the attorney general's actually looking into all this, and he's got a secret investigation we don't know about. the second possibility is he's hitting the pause button because congress has an investigation and he's waiting to see the fruits of that before going. and then the third is he's decided not to investigate all of this stuff. we don't know which one it is. i'm worried, honestly, ari, at this point a year in that it's the last one, that he has decided not to. investigations typically are secret, but a year in you would expect some information from the investigation, either some leaks or the target of an investigation, you know, bannon or someone or even trump or the trump kids who have gone to court in new york, for example, to stop subpoenas and requests for documents from investigators. we've seen none of that at the federal level. and, so, as a result, i think people like me are really worried that you've got a narrative developing that this is just some stray actors on january 6th and not, you know, potentially reaching all these other folks. if you're going to leave out the conspiracy and provocation that preceded the january 6th attack that was stoked by donald trump and his, you know, coup plotters, you might as well call january 6th the day that melania trump photographed all the white house rugs, which is literally what she was doing on january 6th. so i'm worried that the story the justice department has gotten so far isn't the full story, but i want to give them some more time. >> reading from new reporting from "the a.p.," it notes when biden was declared the winner they have this evidentiary document on this indicted conspiracy person here, rhodes, don't accept it, march on the nation's capitol, and that, according to some, is the view that there wasn't a need for trump's words of encouragement, the action was already planned. how do you legally analyze the idea that there may have been other independent threats, they may have congealed at some point, and become coordinated or not? walk us through the law on that. >> defense lawyers always do that kind of game where they just take a snapshot and say, okay, on january 6th, well, there's this independent force that's pushing for agitation and so on. therefore ignore everything in the proceeding. and this is what i think congress is looking at this committee is, you know, understanding the full narrative, which doesn't begin, of course, on january 6th. it begins earlier with trump, you know, saying stop the steal and all sorts of stuff, hiring john eastman, this law professor in quotes to write a memo saying, seven states can send a rival slate of electors. and then indeed it's come out just recently in the last week that there were actually seven fake slates of electors that were sent to washington. and then the justice department is part of this plot was supposed to come in and cast doubts on the election, all of this was just trying to create a house of cards that will last through january 6th and give cover for the vice president to try and invalidate the election results from november. now, it failed, of course, and despite all the violence and so on, but to just pretend it's, like, something that spontaneously arose on january 6th, i think you'd have to be a moron to think that, you know, all of this kind of, like, spinal tap spontaneously combusted with the drummer on that day. >> yeah, straight talk and a spinal tap reference, we will take it. neal katyal, always appreciate your insights. you can go to msnbc.com/openingarguments for this, and other legal breakdowns from neal. we have our shortest break now, just 60 seconds. and when we come back, a top obama adviser on the next challenge here in washington. we're back in one minute. n one e allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. ♪ ♪making your way in the world today♪ ♪takes everything you've got♪ ♪ ♪taking a break from all your worries ♪ ♪sure would help a lot ♪ ♪wouldn't you like to get away? ♪ ♪ ♪ sometimes you want to go ♪ ♪where everybody knows your name ♪ ♪ ♪and they're always glad you came ♪ hello, my fellow americans. as i keep saying every chance i get, we're in the middle of a cold, dark winter. this winter is so dark, republicans don't think you should vote. [ laughter ] >> "saturday night live" taking shots at republicans there, implicit racism and also at joe biden for a tough opening and a tough winter for this second year of his presidency. omicron surging, the agenda stalling, it's become something of a theme. and that has people giving out what they tend to offer in washington, which is advice for free, but some of it might make sense. some of saying biden has to just brag about his record more. "new york times" voting that there's a jobs boom that feels like the best-kept secret in washington and all the talk of supply chain crises reflects something good, which is strong demand. and then there's democratic strategist james carvil with some great advice. >> you promote. you run on what you got. you don't run on what you didn't get. don't talk about what you didn't get. that's what these -- democrats whine too much, chuck. stop being a whiney party and get out there and fight and tell people what you did. >> enough with the whiney party. is he talking about the democrats or is he just talking about all of us as we've gone through year three of omicron? because there's been some whining. carville is making a serious point, though, that there has been within the democratic party and thus within its activist community and then the wider community of people who care about politics, an obsession with roadblocks like senators manchin and sinema instead of some of the wins, as he puts it, from year one. that includes the job growth numbers, which are undeniable, which relates to a better economy, unemployment down to pre-pandemic levels. have you heard about that? we turn now to someone who is about as white house credentialed as james carville but with less of an accent. a senior adviser to president obama who many democrats have called on for advice, david plouffe. no offense, you just don't have his memorable accent. >> no one does. he's one of a kind, in many ways. >> no one does. what do you think of this folks who had even more zingers at biden including the idea that things aren't going well. and whether one wants to agree with that or think is fair or not, "snl's" not writing jokes and punch lines for one-half of the country. they think it's a punch line that people understand that it's not going well. do you see that as an issue? and what about carville's advice? >> well, first of all, the big thing is the political environment. and the thing that's going to improve the political environment both for the white house and democrats is covid being in the rear-view mirror. so, if this summer we are endemic and kids are going back to school next year without masks on, people are less worried about getting sick, there's less, you know, influx into hospitals, then some of the other economic statistics i think can breathe a bit. you've had midterms that i think surprised people. in 1998 when democrats picked up seats because the republicans became overobsessed with impeachment of bill clinton. in 2002 when republicans weaponized the terror on 9/11. there needs to be something unusual that kind of breaks the pattern. so, environment improving is one, and that would be a big piece. all the attention right now is on democrats. campaigns need to be about choices, not referendum. you're going to have a lot of republicans coming out of these primaries, for senate, governors, and house races who are out of the mainstream. and we have historically done a pretty good job of punishing particularly senate candidates. ten years ago they should've won back the senate easily. but they kept nominating people who defended rape and witches. so, like, that's the two things, a party that's out of the mainstream and the environment. yes, better messaging, focus on your wins. all that's important. but the big things i've learned in campaigns, messaging, organizing a matter of great deal on the margins. but the things that are best improved for democrats is the environment of proving. joe biden has got to lead us out of the pandemic when it's time to do so. >> right. and that goes to the trickiness of this, because the efforts to lead us out or to declare victory and move on to take a twist on a famous vietnam-era phrase, don't always work when you get your latest variant. take a listen to senator romney's take on all this. >> he's got to recognize that when he was elected, people were not looking for him to transform america. they were looking to get back to normal, to stop the crazy. and it seems like we're continuing to see the kinds of policy and promotions that are not accepted by the american people. >> that might be a little overheated, and our top story tonight was that we don't know what's accepted by the american people because senators like romney won't allow up or down votes. if they're so convinced they have the majority with them, why not just have a majority senate? i got to press you, david, and say is there a possible perception problem that asked for covid normalcy, which you just referred to, biden and the democrats are out on five other things. >> well, the biggest problem is things aren't back to normal. you're right about that. and i think that clouds people's view of what's happened. and some of these other issues. but, again, i think we will get back to some degree of normalcy. and i think you've got a better opportunity to explain what you've done. roads and bridges, all the support during the pandemic, leading us out of the pandemic. by the way, the republicans are genius at describing things like helping with the childcare tax cut or helping those taking care of an aging relative as somehow, like, extreme socialism. you've got to pound them for that and say this is what we've done, this is what we tried to do. you republican candidate or incumbent stayed in the way and made them pay a price for that. because i do think at the end of the day there is a huge book of business that democrats need to sell. but the republicans really haven't been swung into the picture yet. listen, this is less probably about national democrats than individual senate and house and gubernatorial candidates doing that in their races. and the notion that every republican that comes out of these primaries is going to be like glenn youngkin, i just don't buy it. i think you're going to see a bunch of maga weirdos and extremists, and i think you can make them pay a price. so that's what you have to do. it's two cohorts in every swing state and district, you've got a set of swing voters that i think right now aren't sure how they're going to go. i think democrats are at risk of losing them, unless they prosecute the case better. and then you've got turnout targets. and that's really where you have to go back and talk to the people who volunteered and tell them that it mattered. that's why i still think getting a big clunky piece of business done is essential. it's important for the planet, most importantly, but i also think it's good politics. >> maga weirdos. david plouffe tracking everything coming down the pike. always good to see you, sir. >> you too, ari. >> appreciate it it. >> we're going to fit in a break. our special report coming up is about how the democrats can learn from applying hardball on a very special day. and later we will give you an update on the texas synagogue standoff. stay with us. with us try new vazalore. aspirin made amazing! >> woman: what's my safelite story? 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[ marcia ] clearchoice dental implants gave me the ability to take on the world. i feel so much better, and i think that that is the key. wondering what actually goes into your multivitamin? the at new chapter, on the world. its' innovation, organic ingredients, and fermentation. fermentation? yes. formulated to help you body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness, well done. the united states senate was supposed to vote today on reforming filibuster obstruction of voting rights. but there is no vote today. about two weeks back, democratic leader schumer laid out the case to adapt to what he called historic challenges to secure free and fair elections. and a high-stakes vote to change senate rules on or before january 17th, martin luther king jr. day. schumer and biden have never made such a big push before, and it was greeted then as big news to pressure those last democratic holdouts. >> here we are on the cusp of recognizing the life and legacy of martin luther king jr., and we're still grappling with the issues of nullification and voter suppression. i hope senator manchin and senator sinema understand the seriousness of this. >> on or before mlk day, that's within two weeks, and the connection is deliberate. >> i think chuck is going to put the bill on the floor, and he's going to put extreme pressure on joe and kirsten. >> schumer, by going public that way, was supposed to invoke today's holiday to put that, s. they could take this hard vote on a day when more people and their own democratic constituents might notice. that was the political threat. and yet here we are. there is no vote today with schumer backing off and signaling debate starting tomorrow on these voting rights bills and arguing that a vote today turned out to be too difficult with one democrat out under covid and also the bad weather. but here's the thing. senator sinema loudly reiterated she's against reforming the filibuster so schumer doesn't have 50 votes anyway. the whole issue for today was whether this was a real threat to do the vote today for real or a kind of an empty threat with a moving deadline. it's not just about chuck schumer, it's about something that anyone who follows democratic politics is familiar with, the gap between top democrats claiming filibuster reform is key to democracy itself and the future of the entire biden presidency, and then not really acting like it. and not executing on a fairly standard piece of political hardball, which they claim they would deploy two weeks ago. now, people can debate the efficacy of this schumer/mlk plan, but it was his plan, and he did back off. for democrats concerned that party leaders don't fight as hard as the other side time and time again who feel like they've seen this movie before, well, another president did once talk about this kind of dynamic. >> there's an old saying in tennessee that says fool me once, shame on you, if you fool me, you can't get fooled again. >> close. it's actually fool me twice, shame on me, and that's how some are feeling watching this routine. now, proportion matters. it is still overwhelmingly republicans, not chuck schumer, that are responsible for the actual filibustering of these civil rights bills. and it's republicans who won't consider even treating the voting rights carveout like they do nominations or spending policies, which are not magically subject to this filibuster obstruction. and when it comes to democrats vowing more hardball than they are willing to actually enact, some activists may start to feel like j. cole's famous call for retribution, fool me one time, shame on you. fool me twice, can't put the blame on you. fool me three times, forget the peace signs, let it rain on you. there may be no easy answers given how the senate works, but many are demanding a level of change that goes beyond rescheduling the supposed tough votes. let's get into it now with political strategist, a veteran of the obama campaign and other democratic presidential campaigns. welcome back. >> it's good to be back, ari. >> what do you think about this plan which has now been delayed? >> well, i would say that the delay is probably the least surprising news of this new year. i mean, everybody knew that there was to not be a vote, manchin and sinema did not back down, and the republican opposition did not change. the problem here is that democrats clearly knew the battlefield here. they knew the republican opposition, they knew why mitch mcconnell would never allow this. they knew how even supposedly nonmaga republicans like john roberts, mitt romney, really have as a core belief the idea that states should make it harder for minorities to vote, and it should be harder for all u.s. citizens to vote and the history of jim crow simply isn't applicable here. that is a core republican belief that is something that republicans have believed for many years, and democrats knew this, and the problem is, is that we quite frankly as a party have failed to have an effective message and combat all of the disinformation about this legislation in a way that is remotely effective. >> when you see chuck schumer say in writing, look, we're going to do this on mlk day, and you might be in a more moderate or red state, but you're still a democrat and you're still going to get caught up in the intensity of today of the civil rights movement and substance of it, and whether it's at the level of democratic donors who align with some of these issues or civil rights supporting democratic voters, then that just evaporates. what message is it sending politics to someone like senator sinema that even when chuck schumer says you're going to have a tough vote, she doesn't have a tough vote today? >> well, it basically says that senator sinema and senator manchin simply do not fear chuck schumer, joe biden, or the democratic grassroots. machiavellian said in politics it is better to be feared than loved. now that's terrible advice for somebody in a personal relationship, somebody who's worried about their mental health, but in politics, unfortunately, that is very much true. the reality is, is that senators manchin and senator sinema, they just simply do not fear joe biden, the biden white house, the administration, the democratic grassroots the way that they should. probably they fear them much more a year ago when biden was doing very well in the polls. i think, unfortunately, because of his polling drop, it has made him more susceptible for these sorts of maneuvers. and i think one of the things that has become very clear to me is that this has become extremely personal for these two senators and president biden. i mean, that speech that kyrsten sinema gave about a week ago when joe biden was coming to the senate. there's a lot of discussions as to why she gave the speech, but to me it was clear that the one thing she was trying to do was stick it to biden. and that is something that she would not -- if she felt that he was stronger. >> let's take a look at that and get your reaction on the other side. here's sinema on the floor. >> these bills help treat the symptoms of the disease. but they do not fully address the disease itself. and while i continue to support these bills, i will not support separate actions that worsen the underlying disease of division infecting our country. eliminating the 60-vote threshold will simply guarantee that we lose a critical tool that we need to safeguard our democracy from threats in the years to come. >> of all the days she could have given that speech to reiterate what she is entitled to do, she chose to do it to blow up the incumbent president of her own party's visit to her caucus, in a different era or against a different president, that would be seen as a kind of a political suicide. >> absolutely. it's something that i could not imagine happening to president obama, it's something i could not imagine even happening to president clinton. it is a really shocking thing that she had done, and it feels to me like a very personal thing that she had done, which i think is very unfortunate because this should not be about personal politics. i also think the substance of the speech was highly questionable. all the things that she said, i don't think really add up. i mean, the reality is, if she wants this to be bipartisan, she can reach out, she can actually go over and talk to mitt romney and susan collins. she already has lisa murkowski, et cetera, and try to do that on her own. she doesn't need democratic leadership's position to do that. she certainly didn't ask the leadership's permission to go and intern at that winery last year. so i don't know why she needs the permission of the democratic leadership to try to forge a bipartisan agreement. she did that on the infrastructure bill. so i don't think that any of what her arguments, the substance of arguments actually added up. >> yeah, the substance was bizarre because nobody in america actually really thinks that these super majority rules relate to anything that matters. people generally want government to try to do good things and they debate what's good. but the idea that certain financial policies and certain nominees to random parts of the judiciary are 51 votes, and then a bunch of other important urgent emergency stuff have to be held to 60 votes, which means they never get an up or down vote which means they don't ever actually pass. she made the argument that somehow that defends comity or bipartisanship. they don't have to take the other tough votes they'd have to take on these nail-biting 50-vote issues. >> exactly. i think that's a real agenda here. the real agenda is to avoid some of these difficult votes. i think that also we talk about mlk day, the filibuster has a terrible racist history, and it was quite disparaging to see her sort of celebrate this as bipartisanship. i mean, the mlk holiday itself was filibustered by jesse helms for 16 days. he basically has that history, yeah. >> yeah. i mean, if this were a plot or a movie, you'd say, oh, it's interesting how everything ties together. when things tie together that are antidemocracy and anticivil rights, it's not such a neat narrative trick, it's more of something that we should monitor to try to fix. but, as you've drawn the connections, they're all there. good to see you, sir. >> good to be with you, ari. >> absolutely. we're going to fit in a break. but, as promised, before the end of the hour, we have the update on the rabbi held hostage in texas, revealing a story from inside. stay with us. with us you need, and we gotta do it fast. 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"the reidout" with joy reid starts now. >> how are you doing, ari? is araa -- ari on tiktok are yo doing the dance challenges? >> i'll work on it. >> that's our resolution. happy 2022. good evening, everyone, we begin "the