including an evening vigil and testimonials. the day began in statuary hall. president biden laced with direct and scathing attack on donald trump. >> former president of the united states of america has created and spread a web of lies about the 2020 election. because his bruised ego matters more to him than our democracy or our constitution. he's not just the former president, he's a defeated former president. defeated by a margin of over 7 million of your votes. and a full and free and fair election. those who storm this capitol and those who instigated and incited and those who called on them to do so held a dagger at the throat of america. at american democracy. i will stand in this breach. i will defend this nation. i'll allow no one to place a dagger at the throat of democracy. >> moments after biden finished trump responded with a series of statements calling the president's speech, quote, political theater among other things. most republican lawmakers stayed away from the events at the capitol. senate republican leader mitch mcconnell issued a statement that acknowledged the gravity of this day while also criticizing efforts to use the january 6th anniversary to push for voting rights legislation and filibuster reform. quote, the united states capitol was stormed by criminals who brutalized police officers and used force to try to stop congress from doing its job. it has been stunning to see some washington democrats try to exploit this anniversary to advance partisan policy goals that long predated this event. senators should not be trying to exploit this anniversary to damage the senate in a different way from within. end quote. just two republicans who did take part in today's events, january 6th committee vice chair liz cheney and her father, the former vice president, dick cheney, who also served in the house of representatives. they were in the chamber to join democrats for a moment of silence. aside from the cheneys, every seat on the republican side of the house was empty. earlier, the former vice president was asked about his party. >> give him some room. [ inaudible question ] >> well -- i'm -- it's not a leadership that resembles any of the folks i knew when i was here for ten years. >> are you disappointed with the way that they've treated your daughter? >> my daughter can take care of herself. >> meanwhile, a group of former trump administration officials is behind an effort to block their former boss from winning office again. one member of this group is the former white house press secretary stephanie grisham who says that about 15 former officials are involved. she's cooperating with the house select committee investigating january 6th and she met with them on wednesday. >> all i know about that day was that he was in the dining room gleefully watching on his tv as he often did look at all of the people fighting for me, hitting rewind, watching it again. that's what i know. >> with that, let's bring in our leadoff guests on this thursday night, peter baker, the chief white house correspondent for "the new york times." carol leonnig, a pulitzer prize winning investigative reporter with the washington post. coauthor with philip rucker of the new york times best seller "i alone can fix it." wa neat ta, a veteran progressive candidates and causes and daniel goldman, former assistant united states attorney for the southern district of attorney. he also served as general counsel for the house intelligence committee during the first trump impeachment. good evening to all of you. thank you for being with us tonight. carol leonnig, joe biden started his campaign when he first declared he was running with the idea that it was a fight for the soul of this nation, but generally speaking he doesn't speak about donald trump and generally speaking when he does he doesn't speak negatively about donald trump. today that all changed. >> it absolutely did, ali. i don't think i've ever heard him say anything so forceful and aggressive about the, quote unquote, former guy or former president, depending on who is speaking. i think what was striking about this moment was joe biden grabbed the bully pulpit with both hands and he said, here is the deal, folks. here is the guy who spread the big lie. here is the guy who is a sore loser. he all but called donald trump a big baby. you know, the guy can't get over the fact that he lost. and it's interesting i think to a lot of partisans on both sides. i've been listening to them myself today, democrats are furious that he hadn't really made this use of the bully pulpit sooner to communicate to voters whether they be democrats, republicans or undecideds exactly what the truth is about the election. 8 million voters, 7 to 8 million voters decided this election in favor of biden. and it isn't any other way. >> peter baker, we just heard this earlier today from benny thompson, the chairman of the january 6th committee. let's listen. >> we are learning that individuals conspired to change the outcome of the election. that they used assets of the fellow government to try to promote the big lie, that they intimidated state officials toward the big lie. i'm concerned that even the replacement of certain people to accomplish this big lie was under consideration. >> you said individuals conspired conspiracy and obviously being a crime individuals including people in the inner circle of the trump white house? >> oh, no question about it. >> peter, what are people who are watching that supposed to make of it? is there some sense that this committee has the momentum and the ability to get to the bottom of all that chairman thompson said they're looking to get to the bottom of? >> well, that's the question, of course. look, we already know that people around the president and the president himself tried to use the power of his office to pressure other entities of government to declare the election somehow corrupt. he told the acting attorney general just, you know, just call it corrupt and we'll -- the republican congressman and i will take the rest. he called the secretary of state in georgia to try to get him to find 11,000 more votes for him. he called and met with michigan lawmakers. he called the governor of arizona. he repeatedly tried to use any influence he can to taint the election and find a way to justify denying president biden the election he had won, up to the point where he pressured his own vice president to take an action that the vice president, mike pence, thought was unconstitutional on that day on january 6th. so what this committee has to do, of course, is lay out a narrative that will be compelling to voters who haven't already made up their mind about this, right? many americans already have pretty strong views of january 6th. the question is this committee coming up with something that they don't know will change some minds. they've already done more than 300 interviews and have 30 some thousand documents and they've obviously uncovered these text messages involving mark meadows, the white house chief of staff and others. so we know they've been producing things that we hadn't seen so far. the question is whether there's more to get, what they haven't told us yet and how they present in hearings they plan to come in the coming months. >> daniel, you and i talked a lot during the mueller investigation. you were then general counsel to the first impeachment of donald trump. how is this different? what can this committee do that either an impeachment or a special counsel can't do? and/or the other way around? what disadvantages does it have? >> well, there is no clear outcome here, as there was with impeachment as there potentially was with a special counsel in terms of a criminal indictment. but what i think we are seeing is, as peter said, real momentum. and what happens when you get some momentum and you start getting the damn to break, is you get witnesses, like stephanie grisham who all of a sudden had a front row seat and now is cooperating. and then she tells the committee about others who may be less well known to those of us watching but who may be central to what was going on in the white house. and you start to build a narrative and others start to cooperate and then it gets to the point where someone like mark meadows has to say, all right, am i going to rebuff this committee and allow the committee and the other witnesses to paint the picture of me that will go down in history? or do i want to go in there and give my side of the story? and that's why the momentum matters is that it starts putting pressure on everyone around the president to get in there to tell their side of the story. but when you have documents like they do and you have numerous witnesses as they do, you can't make up a story as easily as you might be able to if everything were being played out in public. so, there's so much we don't know. over 300 witnesses. a lot of documents still to come. and that's why i think those public hearings will be so important is that they'll be able to sort of package the case once they know the facts and present it in the most persuasive way possible, which can move the hearts and minds of americans and frankly may have an impact on the department of justice and whether the department decides that it's going to invest in a full-fledge investigation of the efforts to overturn the election. all of those facts that peter laid out, that's pretty good evidence that donald trump tried to overturn an election, which is a violation of the federal conspiracy laws to impair and interfere with the lawful functioning of the government. and if he did that knowing that it was a fraudulent scheme, then you can charge him. and the question is, was this just getting advice from john eastman? or did he know that it was a big lie that he was peddling in order to pressure officials and overturn the government, in which case it would potentially be a crime. >> peter, that's high praise for a reporter coming from daniel goldman. he knows of what he speaks. wanetta, let me ask you about something carol said, shi doesn't remember joe biden speak as forcefully or aggressively about donald trump. joe biden got into this whole thing to be a conciliator. he said the country was splitting down the middle, and he has been criticized for his conciliatory approach. the gloves seemed to have come off today. let's talk about election prospects and winning. approval ratings are low for joe biden and for democrats, for whatever reason that is. what does joe biden have to do to finish his mission of unifying this country? >> look, i think joe biden laid out a playing field today with his speech for the path that democrats should pursue throughout the rest of this mid term election, right? like his speech today was about accountability. his speech today was about naming exactly how bad this wound is for this country and the need to clean it out in order to be able to heal. this energy that he put on display today that we have not seen throughout this presidency, especially related to the january 6th attack, is something that democrats in congress need to carry forward. they need to keep that same energy when trying to undo a lot of the harm that we saw come from trump's lies, the lies perpetuated by republicans. every time they try to minimize what happened on january 6th and the impact it has on our democracy. so this energy we saw today should be the energy that democrats carry in the senate when they figure out a way around the filibuster, whether that's a carve-out or other options. when they pass voting rights laws, when they pass the freedom to vote act, when they pass the john lewis voting rights act because there's a lot to undo because that lie that trump perpetuated doesn't stop on january 6th. it spread to state houses across the country where republicans in 19 states passed voter suppression laws we know are targeted to black and brown communities that have been disenfranchised historically and marginalized. the energy biden put on display today is the energy that democrats need to carry in order to flip the script. the country is asking democrats what are you going to do about everything that has gone wrong, talking about january 6th and the voter suppression laws. republicans absolved themselves to protect our democracy, it falls to democrats at this point. >> the fact is, it's not been for lack of trying on the parts of either democrats or the president. what changes? if there's another gear that joe biden has right now, what does that do for voting rights? what does that do for build back better? what does it do for covid? what does it do for americans who say how are you making my life better? >> i think the next gear is emphasizing the impact because let's be real, ali, the election in ten months could be the last election that we recognize under our current democracy. right? it is so fractured at this point. so naming that threat, naming that with this energy to the general public is absolutely going to increase pressure on democrats in congress to act because saying our own stop, saying manchin wanted nonpartisan support will be insufficient and it will be a welcome mat for trump to expand his power and expand his authoritarian mission that we have seen on display thus far. i say when because i'm hopeful they keep this energy, i'm hopeful they will use every tool available to pass these rights because it falls exclusively to them. no one else can step in here. and so when i see biden use this energy today, that's a signal to his entire party to get it done. >> daniel, there's one piece of criticism that's still out there that juanita isn't out there, would like merrick garland to work faster and get in there and do something about donald trump and his cronies. what's your sense of the speed at which the attorney general's office and the department of justice are working? >> well, the speed they're working on the january 6th prosecutions and investigation is remarkable. those numbers that he outlined in his speech yesterday are pretty astonishing for one year of an investigation. i think everyone needs to recognize that just because, you know, peter or carol may have reported on what an anonymous source says that is not admissible evidence that can be used in a criminal case. it's harder to find admissible evidence to support what we believe to be the facts. and that's incredibly important to remember when you're talking about the speed. i can't put peter on the stand and say, hey, peter, what did your anonymous source say and use that as evidence. you actually have to find out who the source is and put the source on the stand and have that source be cross-examined, you know, it's much more complex, complicated and difficult to find admissible evidence. so we cannot expect the investigations to move as quickly as we might want them to or we might think they can because we read it in the media. the issue i think that everybody is wondering and the speech left open the question i think yesterday is there's no question that the doj is going to get to the bottom of january 6th. but are they going to broaden the aperture and include some of those facts of donald trump and others trying to overturn the election. ? that's the open question. that will take a lot of time. it's not going to happen overnight and it's not going to happen in the next weeks or months. and we shouldn't want it to. i mean, our country founded on the rule of law, we cannot say that donald trump abused the rule of law by giving favors to his friends and by trying to interfere in the criminal justice system, but yet when the switch is flipped all of a sudden we want, you know, to politicize the criminal justice system. we have to maintain the rule of law and do it properly and give due process to everyone whether we like them, like their politics or not. so i would caution patience. but you know, we would like to see, i think -- i think many people are wondering whether or not there is an investigation into donald trump's efforts to overturn the election because to me, based on what we've seen, that is where he has the most criminal liability. >> stand by to all of you, all four of our guests agreed to stay with us. coming up, we know the election was not stolen, so is the big lie peddled by the former president and his supporters a cause of the deep political division in this country or is it a symptom? later, some say the biggest threat to american democracy is america itself. a look at the danger within and what happens if social instability spreads. one of our guest says the history of that is not pretty. 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poison. that is what donald trump is doing. as even his response to president biden's speech today showed. and once that happens, the unthinkable could become real. democracy erodes and could, god forbid, god forbid, horrors of horrors vanish. >> earlier today "the new york times" described january 6th as, quote, just another wedge in a divided nation. in that article, one of our guests peter baker writes, quote, while mr. biden and the democrats describe the dangers to the constitutional order from what amounted to an anti-democratic insurrection, mr. trump and his allies rail against a congressional investigating committee and seek to re-write history by repeating wild and false claims about a supposedly stolen election and asserting that the riot was born out of justified anger, end quote. still with us, the aforementioned peter baker, carol leonnig, juanita and daniel goldman. peter, tell me more about this. you write that this has become another partisan wedge. to juanita's point, if it continues down that road, we will have elections that could become less democratic as we go along if americans presented the premise that you presented today. >> yeah. there was this feeling for about a day, maybe a week after january 6th, something might have changed as a result of it. but the shock to the system that was so extraordinary what had happened that even republicans, many republicans, not all, would have finally decided to break with trumpism, realize there was something going on here that was bigger than party. you heard that time mitch mcconnell, heard lindsey graham say enough. i'm done with this. you saw kevin mccarthy say it was the former president who beared responsibility of what happened and within very short amount of time everybody headed back to their corners. what we saw today was not a 9/11-style commemoration to bring the country together, not a moment where the country unified to defend its democracy and its system. what you saw was a very party line exercise in washington. democrats conducted commemoration, speeches, historians panel, candle light vigil and no republicans other than liz cheney and her father dick cheney showed up. that's an extraordinary situation that is corrosive one to the democracy, two sides can't agree on the starting rules and then compete for who wins on a basis that they all agree on, it just is a dangerous situation. >> carol, what we also saw today was the former president of the united states continuing to perpetuate the very lie that got this thing all under way. to what degree, to peter's point, to what degree does donald trump still control the levers of party within the republican party and do you see that changing in any way in the coming months? >> i really don't, ali. i mean, when donald trump says this is all a bunch of political theater, i kind of have to chortle because donald trump was a genius at political theater and he is perpetrating it now. he's engaging it in full bore and he controlled the levers of power in the oval office and used almost every one he could in the waning days of his administration to try to block a peaceful transfer of power. now he's using every level at his disposal no longer in the oval to continue to remind people of something that's not true. i think that's why i've heard from so many democrats, at least, complaining that they wish biden was using this pulpit to remind people what is true. if, as my great colleague phil rucker and i often say, if and it's still true today as it was on january 21st of last year, if the primary was held for the nominee for the republican nominee for president, donald trump would be the nominee. i think what a lot of us are starting to watch for is journalists to schumer's point about the god forbid what happens if people don't believe in our democracy, we are looking to see are there going to be essentially dozens of miniature trumps in the mid term elections say oh heavens to betsy, this election was rigged. i won the dogcatcher election and it was unfairly robbed from me. and if dozens of people start to do that, that's an erosion that you can't imagine finding enough sandbags to repair. >> juanita, democrats are seeming to understand for those who didn't understand that everybody seems to understand that this issue about the legitimacy of elections around voting rights is the primary issue. and probably needs to come ahead of other issues as desirable as those other matters are because as you pointed out if this continues through the next election, elections may just not be fair in this country after that. >> that's exactly right. and to carol's point, i just keep coming back to the reality that this is why accountability matters so much so that the person who does take a page from trump's book doesn't try it because they know they'll be held accountable. they know they'll be prosecuted for trying to undermine an election in the future. and so it comes back to democrats having that exclusively on their shoulders. at this point, since republicans have said they're going to try to minimize january 6th or continue to spread trump's lies because they're fully happy being fully aligned with trump at this point. but on voting rights, that's exactly right. when you think about the fact that if black and brown voters can't access the polls, young people can't access the polls, people living with disabilities can't access the polls, then no, it doesn't matter what inflation issues our country is facing. it doesn't matter how much the gas prices. it doesn't matter all these other things that impact our reality because our voices, our basic rights is being denied to us. and i think that underlying issue, that underlying reality is something that should prompt democrats to, again, act like the threat to our democracy is clear an present because it is. and failure to react to this moment will only allow for further snowballing and further harm to be done to our democracy because we know republicans aren't going to do anything. if anything, they're going to obstruct in the name of trump because they truly think they have the midterms sewn up because they have trump on their side because they have the lies on their side. and with 70% of republicans at present do not believe that biden was legitimately elected or 56% of republicans believe that what happened on january 6th was about protecting freedom and defending freedom, then it shows how deep seeded this is. and so protecting our basic rights is one of the most critical things democrats can do in this very moment. >> this is an important night to reflect upon our democracy. i wish i could spend the rest of it with the four of you. i learned so much. thanks to all of you. coming up, one year after the capitol riot, we'll have an in-depth discussion about the current assault on our democracy and the obstacles standing in the way of solving the problem. when "the 11th hour" continues. s you could be 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lisa blunt rochester. jo ann freeman, history professor at yale university. her latest book is "the field of blood." also joining us jonathan green blat the ceo and national corrector of anti-defamation league. his brand new book is titled "it could happen here, why america is tipping from hate to the unthinkable and how we can stop it." welcome to both of you. thank you for being with us. jo ann, you said we underestimated the power and meaning of this kind of rhetoric. this violent rhetoric coming from a president or coming from members of congress that has real power and in a sense we've been normalized to a degree that we just dismiss it as more of the same, more of the same. we have heard a lot of violence and lot of rhetoric in the last year. where do you think we are today? >> well, that's an understatement, isn't it? we heard a lot of rhetoric, we certainly have. i think part of where we are today is in a way in a state of denial. you know, when a year ago i was stunned at what i was seeing, now i'm stunned at the lack of a response. and some of that lack of a response has to do with what i'm not hearing. in part what i'm not hearing from republicans as to what was obviously wrong. we had sort of a flash of a moment where there was recognition on the right that the events of january 6th were unacceptable and then silence. and on the other side, on the left, we now are getting some language from the president of the united states about the real danger inherent in what happened on january 6th. but, the woshd that we use matter a year ago. if you call it a insurrection or riot or a protest, and it was not merely a protest, that that matters. now i think it matters very much how we talk about what happened in relation to democracy. because i think fundamentally even at this moment, even with all of the coverage of these events and so many pundits and commentators talking about the fact that this is a threat to our democracy, i don't think a lot of people fundamental understand what that means and i don't think they believe it. >> jonathan, you at the adl have done research on those charged. of the 727 people who have been arrested for their actions on january 6th, 21% have ties to right wing extremist groups and idealogies, which is alarming. 79% have no overt ties to extremist movements or idealogies. and i'm wondering which one of these numbers bothers you more. >> well, it's a good question, to be honest, ali. both these numbers are frightening for two different reasons. first of all, the idea that 20% of these people have outright white supremacist or ties to armed militia groups should tear terify us. these people were on the margins and now they're in the mainstream and they found a way even since the insurrection since that terror attack to go local. the localization of extremism deeply worries me because we have proud boys, oath keepers, 3 percenters, first amendment running for school boards and pushing to get involved in local elections, to undermine the system from within. so that's pretty terrifying because they used to be again in the shadows. now they're out of the limelight. yet at the same time, to think that you could radicalize 4 out of 5 people that literally a vast majority would feel so impassioned and enraged that they would storm the capitol building, assault police officers with american flags and as we see on the screen, carry the flags of the confederacy, right, into our most hallowed building in this democracy is absolutely stunning. look, this is why i wrote the book it could happen here, ali. it could happen here. i think we forget how fragile this democracy is. there are lots of examples in recent times that i as a jewish person, you with your own personal background, many of us know, this can all unravel faster than we think if we don't hold tight into the social fabric of this country. >> you both made this point and i want to explore it a little bit more with you on the other side of the break. our guests are staying with us. they both have important history on this issue that we are facing right now. coming up, how to deploy the lessons learned on january 6th in this mission to preserve democracy, despite continued resistance from one political party. ♪ ♪ just two pills for all day pain relief. aleve it, and see what's possible. and also try alevex topical pain relief. >> vo: my car is my after-work decompression zone. ♪ music ♪ >> vo: so when my windshield broke... i found the experts at safelite autoglass. they have exclusive technology and service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ medusa lived with a hideous curse. uhh, i mean the whole turning people to stone thing was a bit of a buzz kill, right? so she ordered sunglasses with prime, one day delivery. ♪♪ clever girl. people realized she's actually hilarious once you get to know her. eugh. as if. ♪♪ well, he was asking for it. prime changes everything. we hit the bike 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doctor about shingrix. shingles doesn't care. but you should. are you taking a statin drug to reduce cholesterol? it can also deplete your coq10 levels. i recommend considering qunol coq10 along with your statin medication. the brand i trust is qunol. former president trump continues to make the same claims that he knows caused violence on january 6th. unfortunately too many in my own party are embracing that former president, are looking the other way or minimizing the danger. that's how democracies die. the american people have the ability to ensure that we protect our constitution, we protect our constitutions with their votes with their voices and we certainly are not going to be part on our committee of allowing those institutions to be unravelled. >> that's how democracies die. a critical reminder from one of the lone republican voices demanding truth and accountability for january 6th. still with us, jo ann freeman and jonathan green blat. i want to quote something from your brand new book on page 115 of the book called "it could happen here." you reference a famous speech from president lincoln in which -- scanning the horizon for potential threats lincoln dismissed the idea that a foreign power could stamp out american democracy, but there was another danger worth ruminating over, americans themselves. we kind of think that once we passed the civil war americans themselves was not going to be our threat, but here we are in 2021 and now in 2022 and americans themselves still seem to be our most prominent threat. >> i think it's true, ali. this is the greatest democracy the world has ever noun. many ways the most robust and resilient nation seen in history. and yet is indeed i think the threat within which worries me the most. i mean, in the last five years we've seen a rise of hate a normalization of extremism that really has no parallel in our 250-year history. we saw nearly doubles of anti-semitic hate crimes in the past few years all triggered after the presidency of donald trump. let's be honest, anti-semitism, you and i discussed before, it's the canary in the coal mine. starts with the jews, never ends with the jews. it's a sign of decay. there's bookends and through line from charlottesville, to pittsburgh to el paso to capitol hill. and to think that, to think that it requires moral courage for liz cheney to do what she's doing and i deeply admire her and i respect her leadership, but where are her peers? ali, there is nothing partisan calling out prejudice. there's nothing patriotic in assaulting police officers. again, in banging down the doors and breaking the windows of our capitol. when did this become okay? where in the world do we find these people who had rationalized the images you are seeing on your screen or somehow dismiss them as if they were just a, quote unquote, peaceful protest. you know, everyone should read the karl rove op-ed in today's "wall street journal." i don't agree on mr. rove on many things but to find someone with the courage of his convictions to call out hate when it happens originating from his own tribe, that's the profile in courage and we need more of that ali. >> yeah, from the first time ever i tweeted karl rove article today because of that. that op-ed. professor freeman, you always say something that stays with me for a long time and again you've done it tonight where you say that americans don't really register the fact that democracy itself may be imperilled. why not and how does that change? >> well, i think the idea of american exceptionalism is so engrained in us. we are taught from the earliest point that the united states is different from all other countries. that what happens to other countries won't happen here in the united states. that we're a special kind of democracy. that i think people end up thinking that somehow we are invincible and that, you know, people are saying in one way or another it can happen here is kind of a shorthand version of that. which is we aren't so exceptional that we can with stand this kind of erosion from within. so, i think americans are almost trained to not be able to believe this sort of thing and along the lines of what we talked about before the last break, rhetoric is often dismissed as just rhetoric. right? it's just rhetoric. it's just performance. it's just words. but as we've seen and as we're discussing now, the words lead to normalization which leads to action. and that's where we are right now. >> how do you change that? what does that look like to you, jonathan? what do you have to do to change people's minds when they don't think that the problem that you're articulating is really as serious as it may be? >> well, i deeply agree with my other guest. i mean, as someone from the holocaust said last year, it starts with words. right? this is how it begins. and we need to take people seriously. they will do what they say. they say what they mean. everyone from again president trump to the white supremacists to other extremists. as the other guest just said, we just dismiss it. it's just rhetoric. no, no, no, rhetoric has consequences. i'll give you three thoughts on what i think needs to happen, this is again what i write about, the book is all about strategies and tips for how to deal with hate. number one, we've got to call out hate when it happens. we've got to liz cheney, not when it comes from the other side but from our own side. we have to have the courage and strength of character, ali, to say yes, even when it originates from someone on my team, it is a problem. okay? that's number one. and we got to interrupt intolerance immediately at the water cooler in the locker room and the kitchen table. that's number one. number two, i really think we and we as citizens, our government, has to do something about social media. one of the big reasons why we believe this happened has been social media. facebook. literally intraveens youly feeding these poisons into our body politic without any filters or editorial guidelines. i've got to be very clear about this, they don't have the kind of editorial process you do at msnbc. their algorithms are engineered to enflame, not inform. to drive clicks not to communicate truth. and that is deeply damaging. and thirdly and finally, we need to reinvest, reinvest in our civil society. volunteering, voting, showing up for school board meetings. not just scream lunatic anti-vaxxer theories or spread wild conspiracies but to participate and recognize the humanity in our fellow human beings. that sounds glib, but we too often retreat into our filter bubbles, ali. we need to break out and get back into rebuilding our communities block by block, vote by vote, day by day. >> you have both left me feeling a little more positive than when we started the conversation. i'm so grateful to you both for the work you've done, the words you've written and the efforts you go to to try to preserve this democracy is fragile and important to us. i'm grateful to you. jonathan's new book is out this week it's called "it could happen here" why america is tipping from hate to the unthinkable and how we can stop it. coming up, lighting the way forward with a little help from those who study the past when "the 11th hour" continues. ♪ ♪ just two pills for all day pain relief. aleve it, and see what's possible. and also try alevex topical pain relief. meet ron. that man is always on. and he's on it with jardiance for type 2 diabetes. his underhand sky serve? on fire. his grilling game? on point. and his a1c? ron is on it. with the once-daily pill, jardiance. jardiance not only lowers a1c... it goes beyond to reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease. and jardiance may help you lose some weight. jardiance may cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital yeast or 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the revolution was won. we know george washington became a president, not a military leader. we know the civil war ended with emancipation skurd and union restored and the allies won world war ii. the people living through that time did not know that. they're living with the same anxiety we're living with today. how will this fragile democracycome is under attack today resolve itself. i guess the hope that that brings is that we've come through these really tough times before and the hope is also that we're going to get to write the chapter of our story, just like our ancestors wrote the chapters of those stories. >> the thoughts of our dear friend doris kearns goodwin, one of the two favorite historians led today's january 6th discussion with members of congress. we'll hear from the other one when "the 11th hour" continues. ♪ ♪ just two pills for all day pain relief. aleve it, and see what's possible. and also try alevex topical pain relief. ♪♪ this... is the planning effect. this is 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president biden, yet as he pointed out today, he's not a democrat. he says he voted for both democrats and republicans. meachum wrote the seminole biography of former president george h.w. bush. with all in mind, here is jon meacham's view of where we might go from here. >> we don't know. this is a chapter. it's not the end of the story. and if it is the end of the story, then we have failed in a way as a people that the world will forever condemn. to lose this, as this song says, to lose this gift through selfishness and greed for power, for an autocratic impulse, would be beyond tragic. i don't believe that's going to happen. but i believe we're as close to that as we have been since sumter. january 6th is not a wakeup call. that's not quite the right way to put it. it is, as the president says, it's an inflection point. and it's either a step on the way to the abyss or it is a call to arms, figuratively, for citizens to engage and say no. we are more important. the work we are about is more important than the will and the whim of a single man or a single party or a single interest. churchill once said that the future is unknowable but the past should give us hope. it's just the present we have to get through. >> wise words from our friend jon meacham and prime minister church hill to take us off the hair tonight. that's our broadcast for this thursday night. with our thanks for being with us and my gratitude that america remains tonight a democracy, imperfect though it is. on behalf pof all of my colleagues at the networks of nbc news, good night. ♪♪ thanks for joining, us this hour. the chief federal judge in the district court in washington d.c., made a ruling, tonight. concerning one of the defendants who is facing felony criminal charges in his alleged role and the january 6th attack, on the u.s. capitol, a year ago today. the judge handed down her ruling, tonight, in the formal was calling mid-order, which means it's short. in this case, a short like poetry is short. it's short like, i think i might commit this to memory, and saying to myself in the shower,

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