provisions in the build back better plan, like childcare investment, paid family leave and clean energy initiatives. even the group united mine workers of american, which represents coal miners in west virginia, wants him to rethink his position. it would help coal workers. we urge senator manchin to re-visit his opposition to this legislation and work with his colleagues to pass something that will help keep coal workers working. he isn't listening. that might be because fossil fuel dollars speak louder. i talked about how his stakes in the coal industry could be in opposition to the build back better act. he received more campaign donations from the oil, coal and gas sectors than any other senator. this leaves the party in a precarious position as it tries to appease the one democrat holding the bill hostage. despite his opposition, chuck schumer is vowing to hold a full floor vote on the bill early next year. however, without manchin's support, the bill is doomed to fail given that all 50 republicans unanimously oppose it. at the moment, democrats don't appear to have a plan b. they don't seem like they will likely take no for an answer. joining me to discuss this is steve bullock, the former democratic governor of montana and a former 2020 presidential candidate. the co-chair of american bridge, a democratic political organization. good to see you this morning. i appreciate you getting up early for us. you got an interesting take on manchin. i almost feel that you have a bit of empathy for him. >> yeah. first it's great to see you this morning. you know the old adage, laws are like sausages. it's better not to see either of them being made. democrats, we're good at taking the animal parts off the butcher table and stringing it all over cable tv and twitter. that's not good for our country. it's not good for american democrats. we have to remember two things. first of all, even senator manchin has said, he is ready to address childcare, pre-k issues, to address health care and to address areas of climate change. we do have -- even though we have been negotiating this bill for eight months, probably, we do have a lot of consensus in the direction that we need to go. secondary, remember that not one republican is ready to join in this effort to actually do things that will impact people's lives. >> and yet the provisions in the bill are popular amongst americans beyond just democrats. in fact, a lot of republicans do like what's in there. talk to me about how -- what's going through manchin's mind. put aside the oil and gas stuff which i think is influential in his case. he is a democrat in a red state. an overwhelmingly red state. you, too, a democrat in what is thought of as a red state. what's the calculus there? how do you move forward with some of the things that republicans are calling democratic priorities but that are good for americans across the political spectrum? >> i think senator manchin approaches it almost more as a governor than just someone from a red state. he wants to make sure things are paid for. also, he wants to make sure the benefits going to the folks that really need it. with the child tax credit, it's critical. it lifts people out of poverty. folks like me don't necessarily need to be getting that along the way. i think what we need to do is step back a little bit and say, here are the priorities of build back better. it is significant, because this is more than just talking points. this impacts people, as you know, urban and rural. here are the things senator manchin has said he is willing to go for. hopefully, everybody has taken a breath. we realize that you don't litigate it all over twitter. getting back to the table and getting constructive paths forward, because not only in midterms but people's lives they need to see democrats delivering. even though some republicans say it's good things, they won't stand up to do it. democrats need to deliver going into 2022. >> you talk about twitter and not having this debate on twitter. i will warn you. i will read from an op-ed you published. you say the core problem is familiar. democrats are out of touch with the needs of the ordinary voter. to anyone outside the beltway, it hasn't done a lick to help their needs. you had democrats fighting democrats. it's no wonder rural voters think democrats are not focused on helping them. talk to me about that last sentence. you know rural voters well. so does joe manchin. what is it you feel that we don't understand about rural voters? >> i was talking to your producers. you will film the show from montana and we will see it all. that op-ed started after the virginia elections when democrats lost almost half of the counties in virginia by over 70%. there are rural areas in states across this country. but what i think we don't understand necessarily is that we have to address the issues that democrats and all americans are talking about around their kitchen table. i truly believe most folks want the same thing. decent job, safe community, roof over their head, good schools, clean air, clean water, better for your kids and grandkids. those kitchen table issues, half of america hasn't had a pay increase in 40 years. in rural america, there are nine infants and toddler for every day care slot out there. quarter of rural americans pay half of their income or more in rent. those are the issues we need to talk about. those are looked at, the infrastructure bill the democrats got through, the republicans have supported are nowting scolded by the party, the build back better, addressing health care, addressing childcare, addressing some of the climate provisions are the sort of things that if democrats do it right, we can go out and say, we delivered for you urban and rural and what did the republicans do? they hung on to tax cuts where large corporations aren't paying a thing and we're all getting more devastated. >> you continue in that op-ed to talk about eliminating student loans isn't the top of mind for those lacking a college degree. somebody just tweeted as we were talking right now, having heard the beginning of the conversation. the democrats have failed in making it clear their beliefs and policies benefit the ordinary voter. i would argue that your rural constituents in montana and joe manchin's in west virginia should believe that climate change is crucial, even if they are having trouble making it to the end of the month. these shouldn't be either/or things. >> i would agree with you on that. that's why -- i phrased it as climate opportunity. create good jobs, invest in our country and our future. not leave communities behind. too often -- when we tell someone, look, 80% of americans from 2005 to 2015, their income stayed flat or dropped. when you turn around and say to folks, the most important issue facing you is climate change, look, we can all agree we need to address if and we better be addressing it. senator manchin has said, as with the build back better provision, that this next bill will have climate provisions in it. if we tell people that's the most important issue when they say, right now, i don't flow how -- know how i'm going to buy my kids christmas presents or pay for childcare this month or pay for health care and prescription drugs, we need to make sure that what we're talking about will ring in people's lives and they can see it and will improve their lives. >> good to talk to you. we have talked about coming to montana and covid hit. one of these days i will make it out there. we will talk about this in person. good to see you. steve bullock -- >> i'm counting on it. the good and some bad of president biden's economy. still a lot of good. partisan gerrymandering is in full force. could be happening in your district. redistricting will play a role in the races. after the break, a new national initiative to combat alzheimer's and dementia. ♪♪ just like the men and women who wear it on their uniforms and the country it represents. they're all only meant to move one direction which is why we fly it this way on the flanks of the all-new grand wagoneer. moving boldly and unstoppably forward. are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? what if your clothes could stay fresh for weeks? now they can. downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh waaaay longer than detergent alone. pour a cap of downy unstopables into your washing machine before each load. and enjoy fresher smelling laundry. if you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks make sure you have downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters. shop online for downy unstopables, including our new, lighter scent. the airport can be a real challenge for new homeowners who have become their parents... okay, everybody, let's do a ticket check. paper tickets. we're off to a horrible start. ...but we can overcome it. we're not gonna point out our houses, landmarks, or major highways during takeoff. don't buy anything. i packed so many delicious snacks. -they're -- -nope. would you say, ballpark, when group two is gonna get boarded? 2 hours and 58 minutes. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. someone should've left home earlier. so much attention being paid to the scientific achievements in the realm of covid-19, it's easy to glaze over the advancements happening in the wider medical field. with the new year comes a new national plan to fight alzheimer'sdementia. 5.8 million americans were living with alzheimer's last year. we discussed it with the u.s. secretary of health and human services. >> there was a lot happening. when we were at hhs to film this, front and center, the government's plan to battle alzheimer's. we got a sneak peek at the update to the plan. the secretary discussed new details why revealing why alzheimer's and caregiving is personal to him. this holiday season, an important reminder for families takes center stage. >> the best way to discuss this issue, dementia, alzheimer's, is to talk about family members who are right now alone because of covid. >> alzheimer's costs america more than $355 billion annually. 70% of that cost is paid for by families. >> everyone should be able to care for their loved one, if they are willing to. my mother-in-law who suffered from dementia, never was a day without a family member at her side. my mother, who passed on new year's day 2020, and we the family became his caregivers, his hospice caregivers -- he lived with me his last four years of life. >> he moved his parents next door to help. he became one of 53 million americans taking care of a loved one living with a disability. >> when he started to decline, we would sleep in his bedroom with him. those are tough days. you don't get a lot of sleep. you do things for your aged parent that your parent did for you when you were an infant. >> i go through that battle now. i'm fighting with my siblings about how to pay to keep my mother under the care he needs. how does the plan address that? >> the plan is updated every year. >> the government plan tracks five goals. this year, a sixth new goal was added. funding new research on what behaviors might cause alzheimer's or ddementia. >> can i make sure the diet they have is healthier? absolutely. can that help us when it comes to something like dementia? that could help reduce the risk. >> that risk is higher for certain groups. in black and latino communities, the rate of alzheimer's can be twice of others. you and i grew up in poverty, essentially. when you think about health equity and this plan, bring those two together for me briefly. >> in racial and ethnic minority communities, dementia hits hard and more often in some cases. >> most ambitious of the plan, to prevent and treat alzheimer's disease within three years. what is inspiring one thing that your father said to you in your years growing up? >> if you get up and go to work, it's a good day. there was a man who really impacted my life who makes it possible for me to jump high, to get up in the morning and have a good day. so i am -- i won't forget my dad. >> one side note. each new year marks the anniversary of his father's passing. the secretary telling me he takes solace that he can now care for his mother and be there for her as they share the bittersweetness of the holidays. the new updated plan which addresses the mental health of people living with alzheimer's and their caregivers does come out on monday. >> we appreciate this. this is a national problem that we have to deal with. we appreciate the time you bring in to bring that to us. manipulating the map. we are breaking down the potentially severe consequences of partisan gerrymandering on our democracy. there's extra dirt you can't see. watch this. that was in these clothes... ugh. but the clothes washed in tide- so much cleaner. if it's got to be clean it's got to be tide hygienic clean. no surprises in these clothes! couple more surprises. why choose proven quality sleep from sleep number? because every great play starts the night before. my sleep number 360 smart bed tracks my circadian rhythm, average heart rate, and breathing rate so i know how well i'm sleeping. it's also temperature balancing so i stay cool. and it senses my movement and automatically adjusts to help keep me comfortable all night. sleep number takes care of the science so i can focus on other things. the sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now. only from sleep number. the march toward midterm elections is here. while official voting hasn't started, states are preparing for the 2022 elections through redistricting. you might care about your district, even your state and its voting maps, but there's a reason you should care about partisan gerrymandering wherever it happens in america, even if it's got no connection to you. that reason is quite simply, democracy. every ten years, states receive new data on population and demographics from the u.s. census. legislators use that to map out the boundaries for new congressional districts. also known as redistricting. the process itself is meant to keep things fair. accounting for demographic and population growth and shifts and create an even playing field for future elections. except, it is an imperfect system. boundaries are drown not along rivers or roads but with the intention of influencing who gets elected. generally more members of the party which controls the state legislature. lawmakers in some states manipulate the map, redrawing process to give their party an unfair advantage. after redistricting in texas, the state now has ten additional republican majority districts. it lost 11 competitive districts and gained only three democratic majority districts. north carolina lost a blue district and gained three red districts, giving republicans control of 11 out of 14 congressional districts. california's new congressional map bolsters the democratic party. a decline in population means the state lost one house seat. democrats are poised to absorb the overall loss of that seat and will likely pick up more seats in the next election. this may seem like just a bunch of politics. the implications reach every american. rather than voters choosing their representatives, gerrymandering empowers politicians to choose their voters. that is undemocratic at its core. the next step is to figure out what can be done about it. i want to bring in maryna jenkins. she helps states fight gerrymandering and achieve fairness in drawing maps. i want to start -- i want folks to understand why this matters if it's not around them. chances are your representative has chosen for you before election day comes. you might be fine with that. perhaps you are happy to live in a place dominated by your party and are comfortable choosing which member of that party should win the primary. for millions, it means their neighborhood will be shoehorned into a district the other party controls and they will feel they have no representation and no chance to ever win it. that's the end of the quote. the problem is that if you feel like you live in a district where you cannot have impact, your livelihood of participating in the political process and democracy is reduced. >> thank you so much for having me and for talking about this really important topic. it's really distressing. there are a number of issues that we deal with as a result of this gerrymandering. that quote and what you described touch on a number of them. if you are in a district where the relevant election is the primary and not the general election, then that district is going to start to skew to the more radical elements. we see on the right, this sort of stranglehold that these far right anti-democratic forces are having. if you are living in these districts where ultimately it's who can be the most extreme and that's who gets to congress, that's a real problem. another real problem is, you live in the suburbs, greensboro, north carolina, but you are represented with people who live in rural areas that stretch to the western border of the state. those people have very different interests from you. they live in a different media market. they have different issues that they vote on. both your representation is diminished, but also your interest in the election, your interest in being engaged in communing with your fellow voters around the issues that you care about and sort of getting out and knocking on doors and doing whatever it is you might do to be engaged in the political process is diminished. it hurts the overall system at the end of the day. >> is this a matter that every state has to -- you and i talked about this last time. is it a matter every state has to figure out for itself and some do a better job than others? is there a fashion in which everybody can take this seriously and get behind federal legislation to prevent partisan gerrymandering from occurring? >> absolutely, everybody should care about partisan gerrymandering. the way districts are drawn impacts how congress is constituted. whether we have a congress that represents people appropriately, where you have -- if one party wins a majority of seats or votes, they get a majority of seats. right now we have the republican party who are looking for a system where they don't have to win a majority of votes to get a majority of seats. that's really problematic. everybody should care about that, no matter what state you are in. we are fighting hard for the freedom to vote act to pass. it's in the senate right now. strongly, strongly encouraging and hoping it will pass soon. i think that that should be a number one priority for democrats. >> what does my viewer do about this? what impact can you have on this? most people become victims of this. it happens to you. you are shoehorned into a district or your district is affected or redistricted. what role can people have in this? >> it's a great question. in a number of states, there are processes. but in a number of states, they are still drawing maps. you can be vocal in florida. you can be vocal in new york, in north carolina. there are a number of states where it's yet to be completed. if you live in a state where your map has not been drawn yet, your new map has not been drawn yet, go get engaged. talk to your neighbors, friends. on freedom to vote, call your senator. make sure that they prioritize this as the number one priority for january. this is a long road. right? redistricting happens every ten years. but there's a lot of really hard work for us to get to where we need to go. there's been an incredible amount of progress over the past ten years. after the terrible gerrymandering we saw in 2011, a number of states passed really great redistricting reforms, implemented commissions. those commissions are only as good as the specific rules and people who run them. we hope that maybe in the next ten years, even more states will implement good policies. >> thank you for joining us, as always. we appreciate it. the litigation and policy director at the national democratic redistricting committee. i got good news and i've got bad news. inflation, it's here. a lot of people are upset with president biden because of inflation, which is illogical because inflation is up globally. last i checked, joe biden wasn't the president of the world. inflation is tricky to fight. one common way is to raise interest rates. if people and companies have to pay more to borrow money, they spend less, slowing down demand for goods and services and bringing prices down. central banks and major economies are taking action. the bank of england became the first major central bank to raise its benchmark interest rate. the decision was not widely anticipated. policymakers are less concerned in asia. they are not concerned about supply chain issues. russia's central bank raised rates. it was announced by armenia, mexico, pakistan. households in developing nations spend more money in food and energy. last week, the united states federal reserve chair set the stage for three interest rate increases in 2022, probably a quarter of a percentage point each. right after the break, good economic news. we are seeing strong numbers from gdp to the s&p 500. to the. . our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. 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[ everyone agreeing ] if you're washing with the bargain brand, how about we get back to the savings? even when your clothes look clean, there's extra dirt you can't see. watch this. that was in these clothes... ugh. but the clothes washed in tide- so much cleaner. if it's got to be clean it's got to be tide hygienic clean. no surprises in these clothes! couple more surprises. do you think democracy in america is in if you do or if don't. it seems like a lot of americans do not worry about this. the guy who worked for years to undermine democracy, who perpetuated the big lie and who went out in an insurrectional flourish is gone. it's behind us. biden is doing well or okay or fine, depending on your perspective. now you can worry about normalish things. or can you? the country is better off with joe biden than a guy who literally incited an insurrection. the conservative bill christel who worked in the george h.w. bush argues that the forces of democracy remain beleaguered even as we move into 2022 under joe biden. according to him, the anti-democratic forces seem stronger at the end of 2021 than they were at the beginning. the republican party seems to be more captive to demagoguery today than it was a year ago following trump's defeat. i put this idea that -- his idea to john mechum this week. he calls this moment we are in democracy's hour of maximum danger. his concern is that thanks to trump and his band of liars, about a third of americans don't believe joe biden is the lawfully elected president of the united states. >> the problem is so many people who at some level must know better think he is not -- think somehow the election was stolen. they think is or they say they think it because an authoritarian has told them to think that. that's the beginning of the end. to play one more churchill card, he said, we're not at the beginning of the end, but we are at the end of the beginning. i think that what we face right now is a genuine crisis of citizenship. >> a genuine crisis of citizenship. i'm joined by reena shaw, capitol hill staffer and strategist. an advisor for the renew democracy group. and jennifer rubin, msnbc contributor. welcome to both of you. jennifer, i think john puts things into words very interestingly. the beginning of the sentence about the citizenship was polls we take about how what your approval rating is for joe biden and what his performance has been and how many people like him and how many don't. he says the real issue here is that we as citizens need to embrace the idea that democracy is imperiled and behave as such. not compare him to other presidents, whether a democrat or republican. >> right. the polls that i am concerned are about the ones that show a very high percentage of americans who say that they would resort to violence if need be. the high percentage of people who, as you say, do not believe that the election was fairly won. the high number of people who believe that democracy is not important in their lives. i think it's these factors, coupled with the fact that the right has created this alternative reality. you alluded to it a moment ago, that they do not believe things that are indisputably true, whether it's covid vaccine or the outcome of the election. that's the predicate for many authoritarian regimes. the moment of peril john describes is when the first coup fails. we remember that hitler was put in jail before he came back. donald trump is not hitler, but the point remains that authoritarians who make an effort to overtake a democratic society fail but are not deterred, not punished, will come back stronger. contrary to our belief that january 6th would burst the bubble, people would get a clue this guy was a disaster, that they weren't going to gain power this way, it has only reinforced this cult-like worship of the authoritarian -- they consider -- citizens get frustrated with normal political process, pull and tug in congress, slow pace of legislation, with the need to really shore up our democracy and ensure these people do not return to power. >> yeah. before people jump down your throat, those who study authoritarian rule point to germany in the 1930s as instructive for us to understand how a fully functioning country became the most dysfunctional nation in the history of the world inside of a decade. it is actually instructive to read that history about germany. reena, i want to point out that part in which john talked about how we evaluate joe biden within the construct of what jennifer just said. a republican party and a bunch of people who are working against democracy. listen to what else he said. >> when we talk about biden's bad week or biden's rough year, you know, it's not really a vocabulary that's similar to what we are facing. this is democracy's hour of maximum danger. we are as close to losing the constitutional republic that a lot of us have taken for granted for a long time as we have since fort sumpter. that's not hyperbolic. it's self-evidently true. >> reena, you are a conservative. i'm not sure. i think you are still a republican. do you believe john's warning? >> i'm a recovering republican. i will say i've struggled with who i am in this moment, because since 2016, as far back as 2015, i felt homeless in this country in terms of my politics. i don't know who i scare up with anymore. there was an era in which i came in which i thought i fit in this box or this box. i know as i have grown older, the world is gray. in my era, in coming up in american life, i can say as the daughter of immigrants, one big thing sort of has become clear to me. this trend that ties democracy to action. there's this question always in my generation i feel that's stronger, is that what is democracy doing for me? it's almost tied to government and politicians and the results they produce for us to have some feelings about this system of government, about whether it's working for us or not. let's fast forward to this era, especially in the past 2 1/2 years. the lack of gathering, coupled with apathy, has led people in my generation, particularly millennials between 18 and 34, to look at the world around us and say, gee, is everything what it seems, is it what i was told? is the dream there i was raised up on? inequality has shown this. we see evidence. we see my generation also has lost trust in democracy. there are stats that are alarming about just the level of mistrust that people have in what the system does for us. i think the greatest challenge for me and my peers who are in the know who stay in the know and have made careers around the beltway, is to communicate to each other and say, just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it won't happen to you. for example, my experience of unseated as an rnc delegate, when it becomes something i can communicate to others in a way that makes it real for them, makes it tangible, makes them think, that's somebody i know and her life was impacted in this way, suddenly they are more likely to take action. that is the greatest challenge we have right now, because the lack of citizenship we engage in. john touches on that crisis so well, because what we know righy is also down. the way we engage in society and what we think our responsibility is in american public life, this all opens the door and as jen just said to authoritarianism, to us welcoming ideas that are rasher, bolder and have nothing to do with american foundation and valvalues. this is something we all need to take seriously. and not just democracy is in the streets. it takes each one of us taking an active goal, everyday life, whether you're a political person or not, you need to communicate to your neighbor how important the moment is for each and every policy challenge we're faced with. >> from your lips to the voters' ears. well said. let me take a quick break. i want to talk about the senator that everybody talks about probably more than their own senator. i want to talk about senator joe manchin. i know you both have views on this. mahincn. i know you both have views on this - i like him! nooooo... nooooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent, so you can use less. bounty, the quicker picker upper. want your clothes to smell freshly washed all day without heavy perfumes? try new downy light in-wash scent beads. it has long-lasting light scent, no heavy perfumes, and no dyes. finally, a light scent that lasts all day. new downy light! at intra-cellular therapies, we're inspired by our circle. a circle that includes our researchers, driven by our award-winning science, who uncover new medicines to treat mental illness. it includes the compassionate healthcare professionals, the dedicated social workers, and the supportive peer counselors we work with to help improve - and even change - people's lives. moving from mental illness to mental wellness starts in our circle. this is 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watch the full story at www.xfinity.com/sing2 i admire what joe manchin did. i don't expect him to give up. i think they'll keep coming back to him. i suggested a good solution to his problem would be to come across the aisle and join us where he would be treated with respect. you recall the white house basically called him a liar sunday, treated with respect and find himself in agreement with the party he was caucusing with most of the time. >> senate minority leader mitch mcconnell urging senator joe manchin to join the republican party as he has been a constant impediment to democrats in passing tough legislation this year, most recently the build back better framework. joining me, riina shaw, she has known senator manchin for years and jennifer rubin. you and riina are both conservative in your thought and your writings, how do you deal with an issue like joe manchin and how does the democratic party, which at least is attempting to be a bigger tent than the republican party attempts to be right now deal with joe manchin? >> well, carefully is the way they deal with him. listen, not surprisingly mitch mcconnell is spinning because 97% of the time joe manchin has voted with the white house. he is to the right of most of the democratic caucus. but he's probably the only democrat who could hold that seat in west virginia. and therefore he's the 50th vote and he makes a difference in his party. i think the issue now is to listen to him and to try to get a sense from him of what he really would accept. and i don't think after this past blowup this is someone who wants to destroy this presidency. i don't think this is someone who wants to be estranged from his presidency or his party, and so i think it is a question of working a deal with this fellow. and, listen, i think the progressives in the house have been extremely but sure throughout this understanding what they would like and what is possible are two different things. and contrary to the normal conventional wisdom that progressives are always rigid and inflexible, they have been exceptionally flexible and so i think the president simply has to get joe manchin to a place he feels comfortable with, get something of what they want on build back better and much more important is voting rights reform and democracy reform. and i think we're going to quickly see in 2022 that move to the forefront because that's essential, so long as the democrats have both the house and the senate, a situation that may not last after the midterm elections. >> riina, you have known joe manchin for a long time. talk to me about what might be missing from the discourse what the rest of us might not be getting about joe manchin. >> well, born and raised in the southern coal fields, my parents emigrated there in the early '70s. i've known joe manchin from the time he was not even in the governor's mansion. i've seen him come up and what i know is this the same person over two decades i witnessed that is committed to frankly principle. i think more so in this age of his life than any other portion. and, look, i get nothing out of speaking well of him or ill of him. i'm telling you what i know that he's doing in this moment. i think he's really thinking about legacy. but moreover to me this is a scenario, what i witnessed this past week and some, in how joe manchin has been treated and the larger media mainstream is -- and by people who have a lot to say about how he's treating the moment. this is about policy, process and, again, principle, for joe manchin. and i think one thing people really ought to know is not just is he dedicated to a legacy where he's perhaps doing something we saw john mccain do, remember when john mccain voted no on obamacare four and a half years ago, that was stepping out, that was intellectual diversity. i wanted to follow the beat of his own drum. i see joe manchin doing that here i see his concers haven't been properly validated. he's had concern about timing of programs versus cutting programs and that has been overshadowed here. i'm certainly concerned about democracy here and that is the second part of all this because it feels like -- and this is the part i sense joe manchin has the biggest problem with -- is the sort of normalization and trend of brandings they massive spending bills through. so one thing we know about our democracy is you cannot subvert the process to get the results you want. that's my fear about this moment. so i think joe manchin, doing what he's doing, it all speaks to what i just mentioned. there is a few things going on here. his legacy, his feeling about the massive spending bills and the minutia, what are people willing to negotiate with him. so is this all on one man undermining democracy? i don't think so. i don't think we can cry that out here. i think we need to wait and watch. >> all right, you went there with the comparison to john mccain. we'll have to come back on that. as people are looking at the clock has just turned 10:00 in the east and my time is up. thank you, rina, we'll continue this discussion with you and jen rubi rina shah and jennifer rubin, the author of "resistance: how women saved democracy from donald trump ." thank you for watching. "the sunday show" is up next. r g "the sunday show" is up next good morning. i'm jonathan capehart. welcome to "the sunday show." and a special look back at 2021 and a glimpse of what 2022 could bring. this sunday, it's boxing day. and the past year certainly pulled no punches. this time last year donald trump was actively trying to steal the election, strong arming elected officials to back up the big

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