6th but condoning his Conduct Voting to acquit and opposing and working to rally more sort for the January 6th Commission to investigate. We want to play for you his comments about the investigation and the work it sit out to do back in may so we can note together the change in tone we saw right there today . As everybody surely knows i repeatedly made my views about the events of january 6th very clear. It is not at all clear what new facts or official investigation yet another commission could actually lay on top of existing efforts by Law Enforcement and congress. Hmm. So he said there its not at all clear what new facts or Additional Investigation yet another commission could lay on top of existing efforts by Law Enforcement and congress. That was mcconnell back in may. Yet today, maybe coincidentally on the heels of those dramatic revelations revealed this week from the select Committee Thanks to documents, especially those Text Messages turned over by Exwhite House Chief Of Staff Mark Meadows Mccanals is saying Something Different quote, it was a horrendous event, and i think what they are seeking to find out is something the public needs to know. This stands in stark contrast to his counterpart in the house, top return Kevin Mccarthy working to undermine the investigation including by threatening companies that comply with the probe. But the committeeswork is proceeding undeterred. Today roger stone appeared for a deposition. He attended the rallies on january 5th and 6th and used members of the oath keepers as his security guards. At least one has been charged in connection with the january 6th attack. Stone tell reporters today He Invoked The 5th Amendment for every question asked of him by the January 6th Committee. The progress of the January 6th Investigation despite repeated attempts by the expresident s ally is obstruct its work is where we start today with some of sour most favorite reporters and friends. Donna edwards is here. Also joining us, matt miller is back. Tim miller, no relation, is here. All three, msnbc contributors. I want to start with you, tim miller, on Mitch Mcconnell. And i think you and i have had this conversation. I welcome anyones enthusiasm for the investigation into the deadly insurrection on january 6th, but mcconnell, who is so stingy with his public pronouncements about anything, and who is so deliberate and who is so studied and who really doesnt care at all what the press says about it surely knows what he said to spectrum is a complete reversal to his public pronouncements before about investigating january 6th. I think so. You know, hes started to lean into comments like that a little bit more recently, not being as direct as he was in spectrum. Heres what i bit on, i think everyone in washington knows i think it is the worstkept secret in washington that if Mitch Mcconnell had access to magic beans that would make donald trump disappear he would take them. I think Mitch Mcconnell is sick of donald trump. I think that Mitch Mcconnell wishes this he could get rid of donald trump. He just knows that he cant be responsible for getting rid of donald trump and stay in power. And the thing that Mitch Mcconnell cares about most is power. That is the crux of this situation. Its why he voted to acquit donald trump and then gave a speech about how bad he was the next day. It is why that speech you just showed where he said he opposed this commission, because he knew he had to vote, he had to make an active statement whether he was for or against it and he didnt want to be responsible for this commission. Now that the commission is happening i think he would be happy for this commission to come up with something that would get rid of his donald trump problem once and for all. Now thats not going to happen for him because donald trump has control over his voters. You know, i think that he continues to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. Hes not stuck, he could, you know, do the right thing, what jeff flake and others have done, come out and say what is true. Not stuck. But hes stuck if you accept his calculation, which is that hes stuck in the sense that if i want to stay as republican leader in the senate, i cannot be the one thats responsible for shiving donald trump. And he wants to stay as republican leader in the senate more than he cares about the morals or ethics of deal with trump. So that is the calculation thats happening, that explains his change in tone. And you know, its certainly not a profile encouraged, to say the least. Tim, this ib might be a little too much psycho babble but i think that in our former party liz cheney has been the variable, the x factor. Because Mitch Mcconnell sees the world the way liz cheney does, not the way donald trump does, doesnt see the world the way ted cruz does. He sees the world exactly the way liz cheney has bigger whatever the word is we can use for them on television. Guts. Than the other guys combined and whoever can see the world and donald trump clearly, it is the most excruciating. The other thing about liz cheney, she doesnt shoot for a target that she cant nail in the center, bulls eye. I think they may have doubted liz cheneys tenacity. They may have doubted liz cheneys ability, they may have doubted liz cheneys power on the committee. But democrats arent republicans. So democrats of course opened the doors wide and said come on in. Republicans cant fathom she is a full partner to bennie thompson, they couldnt fathom she could be in the committee and out donald trump and his accomplices in congress. I think they know thats whats about to happen. This whole egg is about to crack open on all of theiris pass. And Mitch Mcconnell needs to scoot over to the other side, at least to the middle. I dont think this is psycho babble at all. I think it is key to understanding their actions and their enabling of him over the past half decade now. All not all of them. Some of these people are soio pathic trumpers. Mitch mcconnell, say what you want about him, he knows that Donald Trumps actions between the election and january 6th were completely out of bounds. He know has the antivaxx stuff with his party as somebody who the vaccine saved were out of bounds. He knew Donald Trumps five years were out of bounds. We always talk about brave republicans who would whisper how concerned they were about trump and then would never do anything about it. They had jimny crickets on their shoulder they would need to nudge trump out of the light. But liz cheney is laying their cowardice bear, speaking the truth, releasing the truth, and Holding Donald trump to account just like they know they should be. And i do think the fact that she exists and kinzinger, and the others who are participating on that committee having them there, i think, puts the pressure on people like Mitch Mcconnell a little bit more. Because he doesnt have the opportunity to be privately concerned about this. All of this stuff is coming out into public now. I will caution at the end, again, if it comes down to the choice between the truth and keeping his spot as majority leader, hes going to keep his spot as majority leader. So, you know, we will see what all comes out. But if i was a betting man, i would bet on Mitch Mcconnell nudging back away from liz cheney once he realizes thats where the politics are going. But we will see. We will send him some tap shoes to make it an easier move for him. Matt miller, we have talked about something all week that i have been dieing to ask you about. Politico writes twice this Week Committee vice chair liz cheney has raised the possibility that trumps conducted while a mob of supporters overtook the capitol could qualifies an effort to obstruct the certification of joe bidens victory. Cheney described that as a key topic facing the panel. It is not just a topic. Its a crime. I wonder if you can speak to the pressure shes placing on he or she who would make a determination as to whether or not to open a Criminal Investigation donald trump . Shes putting pressure on the Justice Department. But shes also asking the question that really i mean not just alumni of the Justice Department but everyone who works in American Politics has been asking, which is what is the Justice Department doing about the January 6th Investigation . I dont mean the people who went into the capitol, the people who were there at the capitol as part of the active insurrection. We know very much what they are doing there. But i think there is this open question about are they investigating the former president . Are they investigating those close around him . I will say i both finds it hard to imagine they are not. And find it hard to imagine they are. Hard to imagine they wouldnt be because i dont know how you look at what happened and not look at the generals who were organizing them. On the same token you cant have an investigation against donald trump without subpoenaing the people at the white house he was talking to. I think it is fair to say thats not happening. Because if they were getting requests from the fbi they would be complaining about it. They will be leaking, in some cases they would be litigating executive privilege claims. I am not sure the department is at all cutting that kinds of investigation. I will say i am also surprised congress hasnt been demanding more explanations from justice. You know, typically the congress and the Justice Department do a dance where Congress Asks about answers about ongoing investigations and d. O. J. Says no, we cant really tell you. Usually thats appropriate but this one is appropriate because congress itself is the actual victim of this crime, both this the physical sense and that they were the guardians that day, they had a job to do that was threatened and in a literal accepts, they were chased out of the office, their offices were ransacked their lives were victims. The department has an obligation to tell victims of crime what it is doing in the investigation of those crimes. I am surprised that congress isnt demanding that the amount of g. Come up and tell them publicly or privately just what he is doing to hold everyone accountable. Not just those who came into the white house but those who inspired and incited the attacks as well. You make a good point. Hard to imagine they are, hard to imagine they are not. Their silence now puts them on an island. The comments and the commentary from federal judges appointed by democratic and republican president s is stunning. Every single day there is an installment and a rebuke for the expresident in culpability being laid by federal judges at the feet of the expresident. George walton called out trump saying this, quotes, words are the reason, unfortunately, the events of january 6th occurred, because of someone who wasnt willing to be a gracious loser. And as a result of him falsely claiming that the election had been stolen we ended up with january 6th. There is no shortage of in fact, there is a plethora of public pronouncements from federal judges who had said in their opinions, in their rulings about other defendants in this case that without donald trump, there is no criminal conduct on january 6th by his supporters. What happens to that body of opinions from federal judges inside d. O. J. , matt . Well, they certainly they take them very seriously and they look at them. But a federal judge cant make the Department Investigate or bring a case if they dont want to. I think there are a couple of possibilities here. One is that the department looked at this and they did a legal analysis before conducting a factual investigation and just said lets imagine the worst case scenario. We think that loolly you couldnt sustain this type of a charge, either the charge that liz cheney brought up in her remarks the other day or other possible charges of obstruction of an Act Of Congress that have been written about and discussed repeatedly each on this show. They might have said we couldnt sustain that type of charge so we are not going to conduct this type of factual investigation because it will be noisy, difficult, and ultimately wont lead to anything. I would say that is not how a department would usually approach this kind of thing. Usually, you would cutting a factual investigation and take those faction, apply them to the law and see what they bring. We just content know that they are doing that. All that said, i will say, there were many times i was at the Justice Department where people outside the walls of the building were looking at us and saying, why arent they doing anything . And we were there were a number of things that we were doing quietly. You know, investigations we were conducting aggressively, and we couldnt tell the public about it. Its possible thats happening here. I just have a hard time imagining how it is without subpoenaing any of the witnesses are the white house. What about we dont spend enough time on it here, but we should. Sort the fog of war, the chaos of the day. We now do have a definitive time line on the National Guard response. There are more questions than answers. Do you think d. O. J. Is investigating whether or not donald trump told the National Guard to stand down that day . I kind of put this in the same category with everything else. I think it is very hard to know. Although, i will say, that, again, if they were asking witnesses in the white house that i think we would know about it. Because i think if d. O. J. Subpoenaed mark medicine owes to the grand he would go to court to try to block that subpoena. If they were conducting an investigation talking to former to people inside the pentagon who are not political appointees but who are still there, you might be able to conduct that type of investigation quietly. Because agents could go over and interview them and there is no way they would object to that type of investigation. Thats why i said it is possible they are doing thing we havent seen. That is the kinds of thing they could be doing quietly that we dont know. I think when you get to anyone close to the president , anyone that talked to the president that day it is hard to imagine that thats going on or else i think we would see public signs of it. We havent done that yet. And i will say, we are now almost a year from the event. D. O. J. Usually likes to do things quickly, before peoples memories fade, before witnesses can coordinate their stories. If they are going to do it it would be odd to start now and not to have started doing it months and months ago. So, donna, you have very public invocation from liz cheney of the Criminal Code this week. Very deliberate. Very intentional. You also have public support for accountability for anyone who isnt responsive to this committee and by extension a lot of support for a fulsome investigation into these events, the other sides of it being a year ago is that a year later we have no answers and no one has been held accountable, except liz cheney who was purged from her leadership post inside the republican republican caucus. Objection yoes reports. Some swing voters strongly support the work of the committee and that witnesses who refuse to cooperate should face consequences including prison. So anyone who thinks that and no one on the committee seems to be thin skinned or weak kneed about this at all. But anyone this klattering class that thinks there is a political price to being harsh on unwilling witnesses these are people who voted for trump in 16. I studied the opposite voter, the obamatrump voters in 16. But those are voters who sort of swing with the events. They are for the harshest consequences for anyone who doesnt cooperate, including prison time. Well, i think its testament of the strength of what happened on january 6th that the public, in fact, has not forgotten about this and does want accountability. I think i found matts comments both disheartening and discouraging because it almost feels as though the only way that you could get an investigation is if there was actually an overthrow of the government, if there were actually a successful insurrection. And that is really disturbing. And its definitely not what the public wants. Look, we heard pronouncements from the bench about the behavior of the former president and those around him. We have the January 6th Committee that is robust and aggressive in its investigation. And what is missing is what should come were the executive branch, from the department of justice, in terms of investigating the criminality that happened on january 6th. And im not just talking about these lower level people who stormed into the capitol and will be held accountable. I am talking about the people who orchestrated, to egged it on, who are responsible, ultimately for what happened on january 6th. We may be almost a year away, but i know members of congress are reliving this every single day that they feel it when they walk into the capitol, and that there has to be account, and that the public expects accountability. So does Mitch Mcconnell, it would appear. Donna, you raise a fascinating scenario, what would it take . Did it have to be successful . If it had been successful, Jeff Lee Clark would be the attorney general, not merrick garld. To your point, donna, how much closer to being a successful coup could it have to be for the Justice Department to look at this. I understand it is probably complicated to contemplate the donald trump question. Certainly Jeff Lee Clark should be scrutinized whether it is legal or illegal on a d. O. J. Letterhead where your job is paid by the u. S. Taxpayer to want a letter sent to georgia to overturn an election they recounted three times as republicans top to bottom in that state. Surely there are questions about the other people around the expresident. Where do you think the line should be drawn . Well, look, i think if anybody read i know we all did that stunning piece in the atlantic last week that this was really maybe just a dress rehearsal. I dont want to get to the point where it works. And therefore, that means that, from top to bottom, there has to be accountability. And i again, i think the pattern people expect it. And i just dont see how we go through another Election Cycle with the prospect that others are planning over the course of the next couple of years to figure out a way to completely undermine the election, whether thats in the states or it is again storming the capital. So, you know, i worry that there is going to be a message sent that you just can go a next step further or maybe you dont have to be in the director or the president , but it can be all planned from the outside. We are in a really dangerous place here. If somebody doesnt stand up for our pep lick, that has to be both criminal and civil accountability then we are in danger of losing it. Perfect place to stop. Tim miller thank you for starting us off this hour. Donna and matt stick around. When we come back, the expresident s fixation on the size of stu including his wealth, apparently part of the Criminal Investigation into donald trump by the moip d. A. What we are learning about that probe and how this obsession with his image is playing a part in it. Plus, President Joe Biden calling it an unrelenting assault on the right to vote pressing for action and promising to make passing Voting Rights legislation a priority. We will look at the challenges ahead. Later in the program a judge saying that fox news was very, very aware that it was allowing dangerous conspiracies and lies to spread during its election coverage, ruling that demonstrate ons billion dollar plus Defamation Suit can go on. All those stories and more when deadline white house continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Nywhere. Must be carried across all roads and all bridges. Its not magic that makes more Holiday Deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, its the hardworking people of the United States postal service. As i observe investors balance risk and reward, its the hardworking people i see one element securing portfolios, time after time. Gold. 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It depends upon the situation. There were times that i was asked again with allen weisselberg, the cfo. Uhhuh. To go back and to speak with an individual from forbes because mr. Trump wanted each year to have his net worth rise on the forbes wealthiest individuals list. Ab on session. That was Donald Trumps former fixer, Michael Cohen, testifying to congress about the lengths trump would go to in order to secure the best possible spot on the forbes list of billionaires. It turns out that obsession of trumps is now a focus of the Criminal Investigation into the former guy and his businesses by the manhattan district attorney. Randle lane this week testified before a new york grand jury about an article published in his magazine in 2014. Lane says he was asked to confirm, quote, that trump told me i look better if i am worth 10 billion than if i am worth 4 billion as reported in the article. More specifically, that trump told me that a higher Net Worth Number Quote was good for financing. He was also on with our colleagues at morning joe. Heres what he said about his testimony. They were really focused on him saying that he is worth that more than 10 billion and we said he is worth 4 billion. Trump towers is worth 2 or 3 billion and we said his stake in it is 500 million. A lot of questions mostly focused on shall we say our differences of opinion on his net worth. Joining our conversation, my friends donny deutsche, matt miller is also still here. I have watched chunks of Michael Cohens testimony. Almost everything that he testifies to has ended up being under investigation by design or by those investigators turning to him because of some of the things he testified to. Matt miller, take us through the potential criminality thats being examined through this examination at forbes. I think they are just looking for basic fraud that he overstated the value of his assets to get a bigger loan or lower interest rates. I think when you piece all this together this revelation that they subpoenaed the editor of forbes, the news earlier in the week that they have gone theyre they have interviewed his former bankers and his accountants. I think they are trying to show intent. It is not enough just to show that the value was overstated. I suspect they have already done that. We have seen public report being that. We have to show that he intended to overstate them, intended to defraud the banks from whom he was seeking a loan. When you look at all of this together that seems to be the piece they are narrowing in on, trying to talk to people to show that trump knew his assets were only worth 500 million or whatever trump tower was worth but he was stating it to be 1 billion or 2 billion so he could use it as collar for a bigger loan. Thats going to be the make or break point for whether they can sustain criminal charges or not. Donnie, what matts saying, Michael Cohen also provided sworn testimony on this as well. Lets watch. So these Financial Statements were used by me for two purposes. One was discussing with media, whether forbes or other magazines, to demonstrate mr. Trumps significant net worth. That was one function. Another was when we were dealing later on with insurance companies. We would provide them with these copies so that they would understand that the premium, which is based sometimes upon the individuals capabilities to pay, would be reduced. And of course, inflating assets to win a Newspaper Poll to boost your ego is not a crime. To your knowledge, did the president ever provide inflated assets to a bank in order to help him obtain a loan . These documents and others were provided to doichl bank on one occasion where i was with them Deutsche Bank on one occasion where i was with them to obtain money so we could put a bid on the buffalo bills. Ding, ding, ding, ding. It appears what is public facing obviously investigators have to meet far greater standards than that but it feels like this is something that donald trump was almost proud of doing . Yeah. Matt laid it out perfectly. I dont know that i can add much to that. Basically, they are trying to bridge and show the intent. It is not illegal to lie to forbes. It is when you are telling forbes my business is better, and i can borrow better if i am 10 billion instead of 4 billion, and he can inflate those numbers and gets a bigger loan, thats where the rubber hits the road. Now we are back to more of his oh, Childlike Type things. Ironically, this is the stuff that really is going to take him down it is still going to be very, very hard on january 6th to draw that very Straight Line unless we have him saying, lets get a noose for mike sens this will be the stuff that will end him. People are very kind of why isnt anything happening . Things are happening. I met with Michael Cohen a couple weeks ago. He is doing well, out of house arrest and he thinks things are moving along. He speaks to them. I think although this forbes thing is not a major piece of news, et cetera a major precursor, i think, to whats to come. I wouldnt rule out there is some smoking gun about Donald Trumps enthusiasm for what was being chanted at the insurrection on your first point, donny. But i want to follow up on your second, im glad Michael Cohen i wont say his best life, but a better life. A better life. Who does he talk to . Cy vances people, both, the both the attorney general and the district attorney. He has met over a dozen times. He spent 50, 60, 70 hours, going back to when he was in prison. You know, they are not you know Public Officials and you know guys they are not doing this for the sake of doing this. They are doing this with an end game. And i believe as we get closer to maybe, you know, Midterm Elections or sometime thats politically timely i am not saying there are politics involved in this trump is going to be indicted. I believe that with every bone in my body. Matt miller, do you agree . I wouldnt go a that far but one place where i agree with donny. We talked about in the last segment whether there is a Criminal Investigation to trump with regards to january 6th. I always thought that the way he would be ultimately indicted and prosecuted wouldnt be on an exotic crime. Somehow you have to show he committed a crime no one else has been prosecuted for. When do you that you leave wiggle room for the judgment to throw out the charges. But the more possible way the is to get him for a plain vanilla crime where there is precedent for prosecuting people who arent named donald trump. To that vain, i thought those types of investigations posed the greatest risk for him. There is no way they can say they are just going after him because he is donald trump. No. They have a history going back decades and decades and decades of pursuing these types of cases. Donnie, sit your sense that there is we use this Iceberg Analogy forever around the mueller probe. If i could borrow it and lay it over one more investigation, is it his sense that there is a lot more we dont know . Are there people i know we had the news earlier this week that trumps longtime accountant testified, some of his bankers have been in. What is Michael Cohens sense of the pace and breadth of the new york probes . I dont think that there is going to be any what i will call things we havent talked about or analyzed or picked apart. I dont think all of a sudden there is going to be new things in there. I think there is going to be indepth proof of the things we talked about. Michael used the word to me, imminent, the last time i spoke to him. I dont know exactly what that means but i do think that the charges are the things that we just see are things that send people to jail. Al capone did not go to jail for murder. He went to jail for tax evasion. Donald trump i dont believe will go to jail for insurrection for sedition against the government. He will go to jail for bank fraud, mail fraud, and Insurance Fraud not go to jail. Be indicted, certainly. Donny deutsche, matt myth miller, thank you. With the republicanled state houses around the country putting in place new laws making it much harder for people to vote, President Joe Biden today reminded everyone that the battle is not yet over. We will talk about that next. Ray loves vacations. But his diabetes never seemed to take one. Everything felt like a no. 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The varietys great, i love how easy and flexible it is. Head to bespokepost. Com and get a free gift with your first box when you enter code free. Magic in a stick boomstick trio. Glo, glimmer and color. Wonderful stick of moisture. The boomstick color, this stuff is super creamy. Boom glimmer, bling for your face. I look like me, but ive got a glow. I have never seen anything like the unrelenting assault on the right to vote. Never. And, folks, you know, as john lewis said, it is the only without the vote, there is no democracy. This new sinister combination of Voter Suppression and election subversion, its unamerican. Its undemocratic. And sadly, it is unprecedented since reconstruction. This battle is not over. We must pass the freedom to vote act and the john lewis Voting Rights act. We must. [ applause ] we are going to keep up the fight until we get it done. And you are going to keep up the fight. And we need your help badly. President joe biden earlier today sounding the alarm on Voting Rights as his Administration Promises there to make this a priority in the new year. The president speaking at South Carolina State University, the first sitting president to give a Commencement Address at the historically black school. He was introduced by congressman jim clyburn who played a huge part in securing the democratic nomination for joe biden. President biden did not address whether he backs changes Filibuster Rules but met with senators yesterday with a short yet powerful message, get it done, and get it done quickly, he said. Any bill regarding Voting Rights faces high odds of Passing A Dwighted senate where two senators still oppose changing senate procedures, the ones that would allow Voting Lights Legislation to actually cross the finish line. Joining our conversation, reverend al sharpton, and donna is still her. Rev i love your comments to politico. I am going to read them back to you. You said this. The time is now. The urgency could not be more palpable than it is as the rev sharpton president of the National Action network and a biden confidante who like others argues that Voting Rights should have been the administrations top priority in the wake of the move of state State Legislatures to tighten Voting Rights laws. People are saying if they dont do this, i am not voting, the Civil Rights Leader said. People are saying they feel betrayed. That is not a good political position for this president to be in. And its not a good substance position. Since january 6th and there is some reporting that the white house may tie their push to the anniversary of january 6th. But what the anniversary of january 6th really symbolizes isnt just a chargic anniversary it is the deep hole that democracy finds itself in. More than 33 bills have been passed. You have this Calcified Number of i think 56 of republicans dont believe joe bidens a legitimatelyelected president. No. And i think that when you say the first part of what you said, that it is not a good place for the president to be. Not a good place for the citizens to be. When we are seeing the state of georgia, state of texas, and moving on to ohio and North Carolina changing voting laws that will impede peoples right to vote. In georgia, where they are actually now having where the State Legislature can appoint local board elections so you can nullify the vote, you will decide who certifies the vote, which goes right into your second point, is if january 6th was about stopping certification, this is as bad or worse when you dont even have to storm the capitol, all you have to do is change who are the local board of Election Commissioners or whatever title you use in your county. Whoever is over the county vote. And they will not certify victors of elections based on politics. Thats whats at stake here. That is why people are feeling betrayed with the white house and the senate. I am happy to hear what the president said today. I am happy he got on the phone with senators yesterday. But we need to get this done, not only for the black community who is disproportionately impacted, but to save democracy in america. If we are going to now have a country where you have people who are hand pick who counts the vote you are not going to have a democracy at all. And january 6th was in many ways an appetizer for the meal of having an autocracy in this country. Rev, in your view, where is the debate over a carve carveout for the filibuster. This doesnt happen with republicans. Republicans are not for preserving the right to vote at a federal level. They are not for it. Phenomenon, if they are not for it, then the democrats must get all 50, and the president has to help get manchin who was on the call with the president yesterday and sinema who says shes for the Voting Rights bill but shes against the filibuster shes got to find a way to bargain, whatever he needs to do with them, and then have a rules vote to change the rules on what a filibuster is. Bring it back down to 53, go back to speaking all night. I dont care what they have to do. You cannot have the country move from democracy to autocracy. Whether or not they want to move on the filibuster, the question is whether they want to preserve democracy. Thats whats at stake here. Because this is not an hypothesis, nicolle. They are outright appointing Local County Boards On who is going to count the vote. So we are not talking about what might happen. We are talking about what is happening. Yeah, donna, what has happened. I mean, there are stories in the local papers in michigan n pennsylvania, in arizona, in texas, in georgia, every single solitary day, people who believe that the lie that the election was stolen from donald trump are moving in, and they are in some places displacing longtime election officials. In some cases they scared the bejesus out of the people who have done this their whole lives so they created vacuums they go and fill. In other cases they strong arm them. In other cases donald trump is involved in placing people who adhere with him on these boards. I wonder what you make of where this stands and whether it is achievable. I want to be precise, two senators representing 9 Million People of 333 Million People across this country are standing in the way of Voting Rights. The fill buster is a rule. Its not a right. I would just say that if these senators were willing to alter the filibuster in order to pass the debt ceiling it is a moral and political imperative for democrats to pass Voting Rights. The fact is, because these rules are changing all around the country and republican legislators are aggressive about what you have described in terms of, you know, removing or changing elections officials, changing the rules around voting, that it is a political imperative for democrats if they want to stand a chance of winning another election where their voters are able to show up and expect that their votes are going to be counted properly. And so i would say to Senators Manchin and sinema, you know, you represent a very, very tiny fraction of the american people, and you are standing in the way of the rights of americans to have their votes cast and counted. Donna and the rev stick around. We switch gears. There has been a small victory for reproductive choice in america coming as the Supreme Court considers whether to roll back Abortion Rights. We will tell you about it next. T as i observe investors balance risk and reward, i see one element securing portfolios, time after time. Gold. Your strategic advantage. Hey businesses you all deserve something epic so were giving every business, our best deals on every iphone including the Iphone 13 Pro with 5g. Thats the one with the amazing camera . Yep every business deserves it. Like ones that reopened hi, we have an appointment. And every new business that just opened like Aromatherapy Rugs ill take one in blue please its not complicated. At t is giving new and existing customers our best deals on every iphone, including up to 1000 off the epic Iphone 13 Pro. First psoriasis, then Psoriatic Arthritis. It was really holding me back. Standing up. Even walking was tough. My joints hurt. I was afraid things were going to get worse. 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In what amounts to a rare win these days for womens reproductive rights in america, the fda has eliminated a rule preventing Abortion Bills being sent through the mail, opening up more access to Critical Health care. In large swaths of the nation though, strict rules will dampen the impact of that change. Some already banned Birth Control pills through mail. Texas, for example, just banned the use of Abortion Pills after seven weeks. Legislatures have the right to help secure the rights in virginia, some pesky vacations, Democratic Leaders in the state senate have dismissed the idea of Codifying Abortion Rights in stay law on policy changes. Several of the Chamber Members dont want to change their vacation plans. So donna, i dont know what to say or feel about that. Over to you. Yeah, i dont even know what to say about it. I mean, i will say that again, just as we talked about Voting Rights, Abortion Rights are really important to women, especially younger women and i think in whatever state is possible, whether its virginia or colorado, new jersey, democrats control those legislatures and the governors mansions. They should enact protections from women that are going to make a difference to them, and again, if this is not done, women voters take this to heart. Women voters are going to be remembering this as the Spring Primaries go through and in the fall with the november election. And to, you know, say that for Virginia Voters and virginia women to say my vacation to hawaii is much more important than your right to an abortion is offensive. So, you know, democrats got to get with it here. I mean, i think they said that and then omicron laughed. Donna, i want to ask if you think, i feel like justice mayore reframed the work in america around rights, the right of states and whether they give or take fundamental Constitutional Rights and i wonder if you feel that was heated to, obviously, at some peril, perhaps, to comedy, among the other justices to describe the stench that would this day forward attach itself to the United States Supreme Court. What do you make of the reaction to her comments . You know, i dont know yet. Because i do think that if the Supreme Court is not going to stand in the gap to protect Constitutional Rights and just saying your rights can be one thing in one state and another in another state, its going to leave at jeopardy, an awful lot out there, that will have the states defending various Constitutional Rights. I think its a very dangerous place for the court to leave us. So i do hope that they heed justice senator mayor because that is a dire warning for the Constitutional Rights. This is again, something that large bipartisan swaths of americans support and believe in. Roe v wade, they believe in, certainly, in abortions in all cases of rape and incest, and yet, appointees from the expresident seem hellbent on overturning that right. What do you think of this extraordinary burden on democrats to support not just the right to vote but the right to Reproductive Healthcare . Its a burden, but its a burden that the democrats are going to have to carry, which is why they were elected in the first place. We must remember that the democrats promised they would save us from going over this cliff, whether it was womens rights or Voting Rights or police reform. That is why you have the Record Number of voters in the history of this country vote for President Biden last year. That is why you have a 5050 senate now with the tiebreaker being a vicepresident kamala harris. Having said that, what we are seeing here is whether it is womens rights and fda ruled today, or whether its Voting Rights, we are fighting people who believe in States Rights, saying were back to the union of jim crow law, States Rights versus federal government, so we dont care what fda says, were going to block it anyway. And democrats that say in light of that were going on vacation, we need to tell them get a Longterm Hotel because you need to stay there and put somebody in office who will not go on vacation when the rights of voters and of women are at stake from States Rights advocates. Call them what they are, States Rights advocates. Wow. Reverend, donna, thank you so much for sharing your time with us. Right back after a quick break, dont go anywhere. Were just getting started. St gd ray loves vacations. But his diabetes never seemed to take one. Everything felt like a no. Everything. But then ray went from no to know. 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My vision was not as good as it used to be, got a change in prescription. But the thing missing was my memory. I saw a prevagen commercial and i thought, that makes sense. I just didnt have to work so hard to remember things. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. This is the story of how a woman from my own hometown was radicalized. American radical, a new msnbc podcast, available now. Listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. We have evidence of how they flipped the votes, how it was designed to flip the votes. We have, across almost every state, whether its dominion, whatever the company, Voting Machine Company is, nobody knowns their ownership, what is going on inside those servers. It is the most rancid system imaginable. Nevada, pennsylvania, wisconsin, and i have a graphic showing the states where they stopped counting, which i thought was also strange, to stop counting in the middle of election night. They were founded as a company to fix elections. They have a terrible record, and they are extremely happable. Hey, everyone, sorry to do that for you, but it will be worth it. 5 00 in new york, fox news just dealt a major blow, though, in its effort to dismiss the 1. 6 billion ddefamation lawsui, like Rudy Giuliani and Sydney Powell pushed the conspiracy that dominion and other Voting Machine Companies messed with the vote turnout. Judge davis, yesterday, denied the foxs attempt to dismiss that case. Quote, Fox Possessed Counterveiling evidence of Election Fraud from the dmarmt of justice, Election Experts and dominion at the time it had been making statements. The fact that despite this evidence, fox continued to publish allegations against dominion suggested fox knew the allegations were false. When fox spread or reiterated information about dominion, fox did not use the information dominion provided to correct its guess, or to reorient its viewers. Instead, fox and its personnel pressed their view that considerable evidence connected dominion to an illegal Election Fraud conspiracy, fox says it will continue to fight, writing in a statement, as we have maintained, fox news along with every News Organization across the country vigorously covered the breaking news around the unprecedented 2020 election with clearcut analysis. We remain committed to defending against this baseless lawsuit and its all out assault on the First Amendment. This ruling though adds to a week already chuck full of really bad news for the network, after the select 6 committee reveals the news anchors and their text to mark meadows on the day of the election, anchors pleading he get the expresident to stop the riot. While the statement on the dominion lawsuit is in the wrong direction, and those carrying lies with the election result, the expresident s big lie still runs rampant on the gop base, like in the latest efforts in wisconsin to reexamine trumps loss, quote, a legislativebacked investigation into the 2020 results headed by a former state Supreme Court justice picked up steam in recent weeks. The inquiry, latest gambit by republicans to reexamine the 2020 election nationally makes little show of neutrality and those in allegiance to trump embrace claims of fraud. That is where we start, nbc friends, john howman is here for the hour, Executive Editor of the recount. Joining us also, matthew dow, former chief strategist to bushs reelection campaign, plus former deputy assistant, former u. S. Attorney harry litman is here. Mr. Dow i start with you, whenever im covering the lawsuits im always struck how backward it seems that a company has a greater claim against lies that damage democracy than a country does. Yeah, i mean look, im not a lawyer and you probably got to ask kerry about this, how standing works in courts, and this is, as you said nicole, its like theres, as a staunch defender of First Amendment, staunch defender of the press, i like the fact its hard to Sue Media Organizations for libel and defamation, have to prove the defile of proof, let the free press make mistakes. We make honest mistakes all the time, and like you say, i think its good that in this case, this case will go forward. This is not a verdict in the case, this is just a case where theyre not allowing this case to be thrown out of court and theres enough evidence to suggest those high standards for winning a case like this might be there because of the recklessness on behalf of fox news in this moment. But for sure, its the case that, you know, that the big lie, the one that is damaging, and damaging our democracy everyday and threatening to destroy it is one where there is no Legal Recourse on that. There is only political recourse and that is a subject that requires a lot more words than i have right now, but it is the case that, you know, traditionally, there has been political recourse. The question now for america Going Forward is whether there will still be political recourse and whether the way our country is normally punished big lies, which is with electoral losses, not success, in the past, is the way we still work as a country. Right, harry, i think that is the right frame to put around this question. Im acutely aware, of how we all benefit from the First Amendment and the latitude frankly it affords us to make honest mistakes but these were not those. This was, and is, a campaign of lies. They know theyre lies. Text messages reveal they knew there were lies and this lawsuit makes abundantly clear and singles out one of the folks i just played maria barteromo, the judge writes, continued promoting lies even though she verified independent fact checkers, election officials, and experts debunked the lies on dominion, more over, barteromo demanded a recount of every paper ballot. How much trouble could fox be in, harry . Quite a bit. So you think in general, johs right, of course, its a procedural interim ruling but in a big case like this, this is really the main event. Now that theyre past the motion to dismiss, fox people have to sit down and not just barteromo, you got the whole gang here, Tucker Carlson and also as individual defendants, Sydney Powell, Rudy Giuliani, they will be show pieces of paper that proved they knew it was a lie, proved they werent acting as a News Organization, but just as a lying cheerleader for a false narrative that trump was putting forward and thats killer for foxs reputation, its killer for money damages, and if it went to trial, and it wont, wed be talking about stratospheric damages so this is the kind of big victory that is going to have to make fox come to the table and write a big check and, you know, its as you say, there is no remedy except the ballot box for the injury we all have suffered by the big lie. But individuals, or individual companies who have been so unjustly demeaned, they got a real grievance to ply in the courts. Theyve done it, and little by little, as things come to the courts, the truth is out, more and more. So in that sense, is another good chapter in the courts resilience as against all the claims of the big lie. You know, harry, you could almost sort of observe on live tv the legal jeopardy they knew they were in and other newscasts. I should have had it for this conversation but theres a clip of someone, not on fox, but another rightwing network getting so uncomfortable when he walked away when i think the pillow guy was going on about fraud. A decision to fire lou dobbs. Their reclimation lawsuit in The Ball Park of a billion dollars. How does that apparent marriage of wrong doing apply to what will ultimately happen in these lawsuits. Its a very difference happen of the line john was talking about where we justifiably for good policy reasons, give the press plenty of room, plenty of wide birth. These cases almost always fail, to make honest mistakes, and the difference between that and fox news, which wasnt honest mistakes. It was dishonest, knowing lies, in the service of a, you know, lying campaign by the president of the United States as they knew. I mean, really, this was clear to everyone who was looking at the time, they ceased to be any kind of news reporting agency. Thats what they say to the court, were just explaining, but a, thats not the law, but b, in general, they were political agents and propagandaestic ones sooud. Thats why these depositions will be murdererous if they go forward and i predict they wont. Say look, they gave you these talking points, you never mentioned them. Why not . Theres no answer there except the true one which is they were lying for Entertainment Value and politics. Matt dow, frank brunie in the New York Times writes this, what matters in the end is fox news helped to sell the fiction that the 2020 election was stolen from trump and theres a direct line from there to the rioting, to the various attempts to overturn vote counts should they dislike the result. That lie is the root of the terrible danger were in with Trump Supporters being encouraged to distrust and undermine the democratic process and that lie has often found a welcome mat at fox news. Yeah, well id like to take the direct lie and broaden this just a hair, im thankful that maybe fox news will be held accountable for the damage theyre doing to democracy, but think about the genesis of fox news. Fox news started 25 years ago and in my view theres a direct line from the start of fox news to where we are today. Fox news was once considered a conservative rational actor in this. Once considered, but over the last decade, what theyve done, and how theyve conducted themselves, in my view has poisoned the soul of democracy and poisoned the soil of democracy in such a way it gave rise to somebody like donald trump doing the things hes done, given rise to people like ted kruz, senator holly, Lauren Bobert and Marjorie Taylor green, i mean i dont take accountability away from voters, but voters, if theyve been lied to for two decades which just happened with fox news and this is the latest damaging example of it, thats, to me, the crisis of america today. Because if you cant depend on a common set of facts and truth, you no longer have a democracy, if you dont have a population that can get to the truth or can get to what the facts are in this instance and we have not half, but a third of the country now which occupies a majority of one of our Major Political parties who has no avenue to the truth today because of the genesis of fox news. And fox news spawned, you know, owens, fox news spawned breitbart but fundamentally if you think of the crisis were in in america and i think the world today, fox news is more damaging a player in that than donald trump is. Because talks news gave rise because of the poison in the soil they put in our country, to donald trump and all the players in this system that put us in this situation and i would say not just damaging our democracy what fox news has done, the lies they put out on public health, on the pandemic were in the middle of. The lies, that has not allowed us to deal with it, that is tied to fox news lies, the lies they put out about Climate Change which is a global threat to the planet including our country which we see every single day manifesting itself in Weather Crises and weather events, thats tied to the lies fox news told in this so i would say fox news, yes, theyre specifically responsible for this and i hope theyre held accountable in the midst of this, but we dont spend enough time on who put the poison in the soul of our democracy, in the soil of our democracy, and the soul, i might add, that put us in a position were in in the last five years and i would say the number one person accountable for that, our entity, is fox news. You know, john howman if you sit back and try to explain that structurally as an exrepublican it bears explaining and some voters might feel whats the big deal . The republicans have fox, the democrats maybe have this network. Its totally different relationship structurally. What fox is to the republicans is a mediarun state and donald trump formalized that, but it was certainly moving in that direction. What fox news did is he trained the Policy Makers in the Trump Administration to watch fox news to figure out what trump would be attracted to at a policy level and tactical level and what were dealing with in terms of matthews assessment of all this poison isnt just what comes out of the anchors mouths and in this narrow instance, a company may have a winning claim that the damage done to their company, and perhaps smartmatic will go the same direction, the damage they do, the country started, the takeover, we talk about trump taking over the Republican Party, trump didnt take over the Republican Party, fox started running the Republican Party and trump just formalized that. I wonder if you have any thoughts on how much farther that could go or where that ends . Well, man, theres a lot in that question, nicole. Ill say a few things. First of all, you know, you can stand back and make an Idealogical Critique on msnbc and cnn and conservatives do, they say those are liberal networks and id say a number of things to that. One is that, obviously, these other networks i like to think of Mainstream News Networks are to the left of the crazy right that fox news and others to its right as matthew named a couple of them, you talk about oann, you talk about the rightwing quadrants now existing on facebook which may be more powerful than anything on cable in terms of the reach they have, those are not just idealogically to the right, but first of all premised on these lies, we saw this week courtesy of liz cheney reading the Text Messages and i know you covered this yesterday, its an incredible thing that you have these anchors who tried to lie their way out of their lies this week, but their deceptions of their own audiences. Its not just that theyre idealogically biassed, its that theyre also premised on deceiving their own viewers about their views about what theyre seeing out in the world, but heres the biggest difference. One of the biggest differences is that people who watch this network will remember quite clearly that in august, in the middle of the afghanistan situation, there was lots of Critical Coverage of joe biden on msnbc and liberal voters, liberal viewers, democratic viewers, yelled at all of us for being too tough on joe biden. It is the case that you would never see that when there is a republican president. Thats what theyve created, this engemity on the right, in that echo system where they, democrats in office, they attack, make up conspiracy theories, they lie, they poison the soil and soul as matthew said but when a republican is in office, they tow the party line and that is one of the great differences is that you might claim that theres some idealogical tilt in, at cnn or msnbc, but it doesnt prevent msnbc or cnn from criticizing democratic president s whether its joe biden, obama or clinton, and i think thats one of the grade a symmetries and why the fox news and all of its spawn, its progeny have so much power in the republican world and conservative world is that they are not just a conservative network. They are a propaganda network. They are State Television, and they are nothing different than what the old soviet, what pravda and State Television was in the soviet union and other places like that. That is an incredibly powerful thing, incredibly pernicious thing and something we have never seen, never seen, in the history of american democracy until the last ten years or so i think matthew pointed out as the accurate time frame for that transformation and its pivotal to the problems we face now in sustaining our democracy. And, in this conversation, a symptom of our democracys state, its frowned upon in a healthy democracy. Nobody wants statesanctioned media, news read by baghdad bob, they want the real thing. So what does it say about our democracy, the power fox has, is as grave a symptom of it as anything. Howman and matt, stick around. Harry, thur. Thank you. The depths the expresident went to smear joe biden and his kids. Plus the covid testing, the disruption of holiday plans, and now nfl games canceled on the inevitable breakthrough of infections. Why experts are still saying the omicron variant shouldnt be cause for panic, at least for the vaccinated. The biden administrations new strategy to keep School Children safe and keep schools open. Dont go anywhere. Open dont go anywhere. Hey google. I may have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. Or Psoriatic Arthritis. But we are so much more. Were team players and artists. Designers and doityourselfers. Parents and friends. If joint pain is getting in the way of who you are, its time to talk to your doctor about enbrel. Enbrel helps relieve joint pain, and helps stop permanent joint damage. Plus enbrel helps skin get clearer in Psoriatic Arthritis. Ask your doctor about enbrel, so you can get back to your true self. Play ball enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. Serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, Nervous System and Blood Disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. Tell your doctor if youve been someplace where fungal infections are common. Or if youre prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. Dont start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. Visit enbrel. Com to see how your joint damage could progress. Enbrel. Eligible patients may pay as little as 5 per month. If you could give me some Dance Lessons you would be saving my life. How do i know that youre legit . Yeah, thats more like it. Our friend and colleague Rachel Maddow called this a absolute freakshow of a story. Under central investigation and a resulting new low in our never ending search for the rock bottom in American Politics, youll of course remember the way donald trump tried and many ways, failed, to use hunter biden as a political weapon in the dying days of his 2020 president ial election campaign. Now we know fbi and prosecutors with the Central District of new york are looking into how a diary owned and kept by the president s daughter, ashley biden, found its way to conservative Group Project veritas, from Michael Shmidt in the New York Times, federal prosecutors and fbi agents are investigating whether there was a conspiracy, those being scrutinized include current and former operatives for the conservative group, Project Veritas, donor mr. Trump in his final days, money into a Laundering Scheme and a financially struggling mother of two, those familiar with federal grand jury subpoenas, and warrant, spoke anonymously on on going investigation. Project veritas denies all wrongdoing, to be fair, never actually published Ashley Bidens diaries, but still questions of extorsion and serious questions of how they got ahold of ashleys diary in the first place. Washington correspondent joining us now, also Msnbc National Security contributor, matt howe here as well. Take us through what you and goldman are reporting. I think what were trying to do here is tell a story on whats going on behind the scenes on the 2020 election. Its those final weeks before election day and Project Veritas has went to the Biden Campaign and said they had this diary. They wanted to interview joe biden about the diary. The biden folks called this an extortion attempt, saying Project Veritas was threatening them, implying they were going to be publishing the diary, and here we are a year later, deep into a federal investigation. Subpoenas issued, Federal Authority executed a Search Warrant at the homes james okeife, incredibly aggressive move, on part of the Justice Department, related to members of the media and who they were, you know, having a warrant on the judge, putting james okeif in handcuffs as they took his phone, he demands he is a journalist like the rest of us and has protections because of that. Its a question on all of us, how far the First Amendment extends and what that means in federal investigations especially with the issues over the past years, seizing Phone Records of reporters and such so a lot of dynamics here, but at the center of it is a woman who is the daughter of the president of the United States who, in the final days of the 2020 campaign, had to live with the thought, and ultimate dumping of her personal diary into the public, in an effort to undercut joe biden, her father, and keep donald trump in office and thats just a remarkable, personal human story. Mike, can you sort of address two intersections of Project Veritas and the group you describe in the reporting as being under investigation for potential criminal conspiracy . How close did that group or effort come to the expresident . And the other, this point youre making about the tactics and the sort of, you know, donald trump did it from the podium on the debate stage with joe biden but there was certainly an effort, say less profile with Rudy Giuliani and Project Veritas to drag his Adult Children into the campaign. Talk about, at the end of the day, also some stunning reporting about donald trump and his sort of access of supporters and joe biden and his family being dragged through the mud. Yeah, so to understand what happened here, you have to understand how the diary ends up in Project Veritass hands and thats what we tried to trace, and it includes these individuals as you were laying out who, you know, the government is looking at whether they, someone went in, stole the diary, gave it to someone else, then came to Project Veritas, sold it to Project Veritas, then Project Veritas, you know, was going to public it, decided not to publish it, and it was leaked through another outlet, conservative news site we had not heard of, but the most important thing in terms of questions on what is going out here in the extent of the federal investigation and i caution, we are early here, been reporting on this for the past six weeks or so. This is, you know, the first we had learned about it, is that of the people do are being scrutinized is a trump donor who was in the west wing of the final months of the presidency and was at the white house for a Christmas Party in december of 2020, a common thing for donors to go to, to be at, and was nominated to a post by trump in late december, in National Cancer association the president has the ability to appoint to. Joe biden since rescinded that nomination of her, that is Elizabeth Faugo but you put her name in Law Enforcement documents as they sought materials for subpoenas and Search Warrants, we do not know the full extent of her role here, but its certainly a thread that were trying to figure out. You know matt howe, whether its questions of coordination with the russians, whether its the 1 6 investigation to how high up the storm the capitol went, whether its the decision to publish and steal ashleys journal, the question is always did trump know . Maybe thats the wrong question. Maybe the frame should be this is the culture trump ushered in, whether he knew or not about the tactics. This is all what they believe he wanted. Well, i think thats what the most appropriate question is, because donald trump has gone through life like pig pen, creating an ecosystem where people live and grow in the dirt like mushrooms. Youve been involved in campaigns. John has covered campaigns. Ive been involved in over 200 campaigns. You get despicable people that show up with stuff like this and my response was always get out of the headquarters, i dont care, thats not what this is about, which any person with ethics would do, but the other part of this is pure lack of humanity in the trump operation. They dont care, its all ends justify the means approach. This was a woman who struggled with addiction, who left her diary at a Friends House according to the reporting then picked up by a trump supporter, according to the reporting in this, who sought to sell it and already have people available who wanted to support donald trump to get in the middle of this. And i think thats really the question. Like any person, on whether theyre on the opposite side of me or been on the opposite side of me in politics, i would first, will they use ethics, and this of course was completely unethical, and maybe illegal, which well know in the court thing, and just a pure lack of humanity in this, to do this to the daughter of a president ial candidate for purely seeking power. But i think your response is appropriate. Donald trump, as Michael Cohen often has said, often doesnt say it directly, but Everybody Knows what he wants, and what he usually wants is something despicable, deplorable, dirty, that serves his purpose. And this, to me, is another example of it. I wish it didnt occur, i wish there were people who had road guards in this to keep this stuff from happening but were in a time when theres an entire Political Party and infrastructure which completely believes in keeping power by however means necessary even by trashing somebody who has nothing to do with it who is struggling with her own stuff in her life. Matt dow, thank you for spending so much of this hour with us. Grateful to both of you. When we come back, the sharp rise in covid cases heading into the holidays already upending plans, canceling nfl games, and in general, causing a whole lot of anxiety. Our medical expert joins us after a quick break to help us make sense of all of it and how to stay safe in the coming weeks. Stay with us. N the coming weeks. Stay with us experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list event. With relapsing forms of ms. Theres a lot to deal with. Not just unpredictable relapses. 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So i called the barnes firm. When that car hit my motorcycle, insurance wasnt fair. So i called the barnes firm. It was the best call i couldve made. Atat t bararnefirmrm, our r inry a Attneysys Wk Hahard i couldve made. Atat t bararnefirmrm, to get you the best result possible. Call us now and find out what your case could be worth. You u Mit Bebe Sprisised the Barnes Firm Injury Attorneys call one eight hundred, Eight Million for the unvaccinated, youre looking at a winter of severe illness and death. For yourselves, your families, and the hospitals you may soon overwhelm. This is not a moment to panic, because we know how to protect people, and we have the tools to do it. President biden bidens covid team today on the bottom line ahead of the massive surge in omicron cases expected in the next few weeks here in america. Already, there are long lines at testing sites across the country, they reflect the numbers. Our cases up 31 in just the last two weeks, average 119,000 new covid cases reported every single day. In the world of sports, nfl announced it postponed several games this weekend, same with National Hockey league due to a surge in cases. That does not happen often, if youre a football or hockey fan. Urging us not to panic, but not to ignore it either. The goal, he says is saving lives but keeping hospitals functioning. We do that through boosters, rapid tests, masks, and preparation for a complicate january. Joining us, dc school of public health, dr. Shau, i wake up and search your twitter feed to see what will keep me calm as the covid news seems to get more and more ominous and i have to tell you, understand this audience and believe them to be vaccinated, boosted and putting their masks on when walking into the Grocery Store and there is a real sense of anxiety, and that we cant escape this one. Is that rooted in National Science . Yes, so first of all nicole, thanks for having me back. I have two kind of big picture messages. One is there is a big group of americans who are done with the pandemic, want to move on, unfortunately thats not a strategy that will work well for us. At the same time, there are people who really worry we are back in march of 2020, nfl is shutting down, we are starting to see closures and somehow back to square one and its important to be clear, we are not back to square one. If you are vaccinated and boosted and around people who are vaccinated and boosted, there is going to be a large omicron wave, you will do okay. You might get infected but youll do okay, we will not see serious illness in that population. What are we headed into then, can you take us through what you would predict what the ominous lines will look like and how long it will take for it to come back down . So yeah, obviously some of this is guess work as we look at data from africa, the uk, and a little from the United States. My best guess is well see a sharp acceleration of infections in the next couple of weeks, and by midjanuary well probably peak, obviously could be off by a week or two, nobody knows for sure, then see a pretty rapid decline and by midfebruary i expect case numbers to be way, way down. What im hoping for, nicole, and this is probably the most important part, is im hoping those case numbers rising very rapidly is not going to be followed by a sort of comparable increase in hospitalizations and deaths. Im hoping that we finally break the link between infections and hospitalizations and deaths because we have so many people vaccinated. Last point, i remain worried, a lot of americans are still not vaccinated, a lot of older, high risk people still not boosted. They remain at risk. Thats the group to Pay Attention to and figure out how we help them get through this. John. Dr. Jha let me ask you a question here, i live in new york city and people are freaking out here, you know, in a way that i dont even remember people being as freaked out by when delta hit as they are over this. You see the Testing Infrastructure here is under strain, people are lined up at Testing Facilities all over the city, and i think there is this question that people have with one of these things obviously is, this notion of neverending covid and are we ever going to get past it, but in the practical, immediate terms, a lot of people thinking should i cancel my trip, not go where i was planning to go during the holidays . Not leave the country . Not have my grandparents or parents travel to a city like new york getting hit by a decent sized wave. What would you tell people to do as we just try to get through the holiday with bodies, minds, spirits and hopefully hearts intact . Yeah, so heres what im doing and what i think is reasonable. We had a large Holiday Party scheduled for our school and decided to cancel it. 300 people indoors, eating, drinking, thought that is probably not a good idea. Im still getting together with my extended family, motherinlaw coming from florida, i think thats safe, everybody eligible to be boosted s some kids are not, but vaccinated. We can use testing to add one more layer of safety. I think families can absolutely get together if you have vaccinated people, especially boosted people among high risk individuals. Add in some testing, it will make a big difference. Rapid tests are widely available, not a as cheap as id like them to be but are getting cheaper. We have tools to do this. You dont have to cancel your christmas plans. To pull the curtain further, john was going to be in here but i think it became unclear if we are avoiding human contact. You have any thoughts about the mounting Mental Health toll and the important of getting vaccinated people back to places like school or workplaces . Yeah. You know, look, we are going to see a big wave here, theres no reason for me to think that we will never see another wave of infections. We have to come up with a different mental model. In the past, we had the Covid Deniers who said its just infections, they dont matter, but what we knew is Infections Led to hospitalizations, led to deaths, and thats why infections were such an important indicator. That is becoming less of a case now. Yes, were going to see infections among vaccinated people, among boosted people, thats okay. Theyre mostly going to do fine. The people who are going to get into trouble are the highrisk people who are not boosted or not vaccinated. We got to work on helping protect them, but were not going to get away from, you know, suppressing infections. Were not going to be able to do that without shutting down our economy. I dont think thats necessary at this point, we can protect people, keep things open, we can move forward in a very different way than we could a year ago or two years ago. John, you took my anxiety from an 8. 3 down to a 4 so thank you for spending time with us today. A quick break for us, and when we return, the biden administrations new plan to keep children safe and healthy and avoid a new round of school shutdowns. Reporting next, dont go anywhere. Utdowns. Reporting next, dont go anywhere ray loves vacations. But his diabetes never seemed to take one. Everything felt like a no. Everything. But then ray went from no to know. With freestyle libre 2, now he knows his Glucose Levels when he needs to. And. When he wants to. So ray. Can be ray. Take the mystery out of your Glucose Levels, and lower your a1c. Now you know. Try it for free. Visit freestylelibre. Us i thought i was managing my moderate to severe Crohns Disease. Then i realized something was missing. Me. My symptoms were keeping me from being there for her. So, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is the 1 prescribed biologic for people with Crohns Disease. Humira helps people achieve remission that can last. And the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief in as little as 4 weeks. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections. Serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and Nervous System problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Be there for you, and them. Ask your gastroenterologist about humira. With humira, remission is possible. Learn how abbvie could help you save on humira. Music i got you babe by etta james get groceries, gifts, more fast and easy so last minute guests are the only thing youll be waiting on joy. Fully. At vanguard, youre more than just an investor, youre an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. Vanguard. Become an owner. Today, were releasing cdc science on tests to stay, that allows unvaccinated children to stay in school, even if theyve been exposed to the virus, so they dont have to miss school while theyre quarantining at home. Biden administration endorsing a new approach for how schools can use some of the tools weve been talking about here to avoid another round of school shutdowns, keep kids in the classrooms learning safety. Cdc recommending tests to stay where unvaccinated students exposed to covid can stay in school as long as they have no symptoms, test negative at least twice in the following week and everyone wears masks. That announcement backed by studies from two districts, suggesting the tests to stay, helped thousands at school. Heidi, i know for vaccinated kids, its an even better picture. If you dont have symptoms and have contact, most schools are letting kids stay in as long as they dont feel sick. Talk about this step and this commitment from the administration to keeping kids in school this year. Reporter yeah, nicole, i want to help with your anxiety too, so lets start with the good news first is we have this new data and guidance showing tests to stay can be very effective. Its a Pretty Simple principle which is that you use rapid antigen tests at least twice a week to test all children, and that way, even if a child tests positive, even several children, as long as the other children are testing negative, they can stay in school. This has been a success in several places, including massachusetts, they got some in Washington State for example, and we have these new studies now, including late county illinois showing they prevented 8,000 missed8,000 missed days. Thats the good news. The bad news is a lot of schools dont have the resources, or have the resources but arent aware of it. A lot of schools are not doing this and you cant put up a shingle overnight and set up these programs. They are very laborintensive. You have to procure all of the tests. Can you imagine schools with thousands of students getting rapid antigen tests for two times a week for these children and then having the staff to administer them and read the results . So given how hard omicron is coming at us, nicolle, this is a concern that the majority of schools may not be able to get this in place by the new year. But like you say, the saving factor here are those vaccinations. However, again, vaccination rates vary very widely based on state. Nicolle . John heilemann, as heidi just said, one of the sort of side gigs of helming this hour is managing the anxiety of the host and her viewers. Youll be helming some of these hours for me next week. There is an atlantic piece in august that i read four times, sent it to every parent i know. It was basically about mommies and daddies are broken. It was about sending our kids black to school in september amid the surging delta wave. And what i think kids, most importantly, cant take, and you see them, theyre devastated. The u. S. Surgeon general put out a warning, an alert about kids Mental Health, a 55 increase in young girls going to the emergency room with Mental Health crises, 5 increase in young boys. We cannot go through this again. Kids cannot stay home, john. Yeah, and look, i mean, what dr. Jha said, on the other side, im reading through the epidemiologists who are still trying to sort out whats going on with omicron and looking at some of the data coming out of south africa, some of the data coming out of denmark and london that suggest there might be a little higher hospitalization rate with kids with this variant. Im no expert but ive read enough to understand why the people with kids, as you just said, nicolle, are worried, that if that turns out to be true, that this could be a variant that could cause a disruption that goes to the very issues you just raised so rightly. Heidi przybyla, john heilemann, thank you both for staying with us for this part of the story. Quick break for us. 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Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. No one can deliver your moms homemade short ribs. Thats why instacart helps deliver the ingredients. And you add the love. Earlier in the program we showed you some of President Bidens speech today at South Carolina State University on the topic of Voting Rights. There was another highlight this morning very much worth sharing with you. House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn graduated from that school in 1961. But having completed all of his credits early, he graduated in december that year and never got the opportunity to march alongside his classmates. Now, today, 60 years later, another december graduation, and this time clyburn got his wish and his diploma presented to him by the leader of the free world. Not too shabby. Well be right back. Well b. The penas are saving big, Holiday Shopping at amazon. So now, theyre free to become. The party penas. They see your ugly sweaters, and raise you some mittens. As a dj, i know all about customization. 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Its the hardworking dont worry, sweetie. E she promised shed be here for it. Ooh nice shot thanks glad we have xfinity, with wifi speed faster than a gig me too woah, look mom is on tv shes amazing cheers xfinity brought us together, after all power your whole home this holiday with wifi speeds faster than a gig. Click, call, or visit a store today. Sing 2 thank you so much for letting us in your homes during these extraordinary times. Were so grateful. The beat starts right now. Hi, jason. Thanks, nicolle. Long time trump adviser is pleading the fifth today in a closed door hearing before the January 6th Committee