Crowd. Plus new reporting on unnamed lawmakers working with the white house. Why a judge tossed trumps lawsuit to keep his taxes away from congress. And a closer look at the ongoing Human Victims of the big lie. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Right now as we speak the House Of Representatives are preparing to vote on Holding Donald trumps former Chief Of Staff mark meadows in contempt of congress, a body in which he once served, for refusing to comply with subpoena from the January 6th Committee. The debate on this resolution started this afternoon around 4 15. There was a bit of a holdup by republicans over accusations that House Majority leader steny hoyer disparnged republican congressman jim banks. Once they sorted through all that they picked up the debate around 5 30 p. M. The debate is done now. Theres some other house business happening. Were waiting for them to vote on whether to refer mark meadows to the Department Of Justice for contempt of congress. As they have previously done with steve bannon. If he is held in contempt, the case goes to the doj, where they will decide whether or not to prosecute. The actual vote is expected soon. Well continue to bring you the latest on whats happening on the floor. Of course this all comes a day after the House Committee investigating the insurrection voted unanimously in favor of the Contempt Resolution the house takes up tonight. And part of the reason that happened, a big part of the reason, is because mark meadows, former Chief Of Staff, his defense that he didnt have to comply with the subpoena because of Executive Privilege has basically been invalidated. I mean, meadows has been claiming he cannot talk about certain interactions with former President Trump because of Executive Privilege. But then he published a 300page book discussing those interactions in detail and also provided the schmidt with more than 6,000 pages of emails and 2,000 Text Messages. Yesterday we got a tantalizing peek at some of those documents when the republican vice chair of the January 6th Committee, Congresswoman Liz Cheney, read them into the record. Quote, mark, the president needs to tell people in the capitol to go home. This is hurting all of us. He is destroying his legacy. Laura ingraham wrote. Please get him on tv. Destroying everything you have accomplished, Brian Kilmeade texted. Quote, can he make a statement . Ask people to leave the capitol, sean hannity urged. As the violence continued, one of the president s sons texted mr. Meadows, quote, hes got to condemn this shit asap. The Capitol Police tweet is not enough, donald trump jr. Texted. Quote, we need an oval office address. He has to lead now. It has gone too far and gotten out of hand. The unifying theme from those messages sent to mark meadows from three fox news hosts and Donald Trumps own son when the mob was attacking the capitol and trying to undo our democracy is that everyone watching what happened that day was horrified in the moment. They were desperate for donald trump to condemn the insurrection and call off the mob. Everyone, even these prominent figures on the right, understood the mob would listen to one person and one person only, that they were, to use a metaphor here, The Dogs Trump had sicced on the capitol and everyone wanted trump to call them to heel. The only exception was donald trump himself. Thats why those texts are coming in to meadows, whos with trump. Everyone agrees, not trump. Maybe not meadows, we dont know. Trump delayed. He delayed. And he delayed saying anything on january 6th. Hence the barrage of mengz. And he finally released a video calling the insurrectionists very special and saying he loved them. Now, after these texts came out the right has a hilarious morally backwards scandal on its hands because this new evidence revealed by liz cheney last night shows that i a bunch of them had the correct moral not to mention pr instinct in the moment that the insurrection was bad and dangerous and must be stopped. But of course that deviates from the official party line that they have been repeating for almost a year. So not only does this humiliating episode reveal they have been lying directly to their viewers, which is not that surprising but still amazing to see so concretely, but they also cannot even talk about this good thing they did. Its hard to figure out how to take a victory lap. Im sure theyll try to do it tonight. Or even pat themselves on the back for momentarily doing the right thing, for using their connection to mark meadows to try to get limb to do something, otry to get donald trump to act and stop the insurrection. But the first instinct they had wasnt to do that because to do that would only further enrage donald trump, the man they all still bow before. In the 24 hours since Congresswoman Liz Cheney read those Text Messages out for the whole world to hear there has been barely any mention of them on fox news. And when fox news really want to pump a story, they can. In fact, get this. Sean hannity actually interviewed The One And Only mark meadows for seven minutes last night just after that bombshell and somehow managed not to mention the news. Never to mention that he reached out to Meadows On January 6th trying to get the president to stop the violent insurrection he had fomented. That whole thing in that interview never came up. Hannity did, however, manage to give meadows a platform to praise donald trump for his admirable actions on january 6th. President trump wanted to make sure that the people that came, that there was a safe environment for that kind of assembly. And ive said that publicly before. The 10,000 National Guard troops that he wanted to make sure that everything was safe and secure. And yet the way that some of the democrats are spinning this, trying to spin some nefarious purpose, i think at the end of the day theyre going to find that not only did the president act but he acted quickly. Dude, theres nothing to find. We know the timeline. It is public. We watched it. I remember where i was. It was less than a year ago. You might too. This is the whole badfaced scandal in a nutshell. Mark meadows a guy in the process of being referred to the doj for contempt lying on Sean Hannitys show claiming donald trump, quote, acted quickly on january 6th. Sean hannity knows thats a lie because, well, oh, right, he himself texted meadows in the middle of the attack as the insurrection was happening saying the president needed to hurry up and say something. Quote, can he make a statement . Ask people to leave the capitol . He is asking that question because the president was not acting quickly as we all know because we were watching it in real time. But of course sean hannity cant say anything about that because if he does he topps his hand and he topps all their hands at fox news, because they have been lying through their teeth to their audience for a year now. I mean, not just about this. About a lot of things. About what they say with their own eyes, what they saw with their own eyes, and recognized in the im. In fact, they started lying that very night claiming it wasnt their people mobbing the capitol. Earlier today the capitol was under siege by people who can only be described as antithetical to the maga movement. Now, they were likely not all Trump Supporters and there are some reports that Antifa Sympathizers may have been sprinkled throughout the crowd. Theres always bad actors that will infiltrate large crowds. I dont care if theyre radical left, radical right. I dont know who they are. Theyre not people i would support. I just thought the tone, the attitude of of defiance played out in the capitol, the lack of security stunned me. I do not know Trump Supporters that have ever demonstrated violence that i know of in a big situation. Can i just take a second to hold that ingraham statement up to the light . There are reports antifa supporters may have been sprinkled throughout the crowd. There are reports that i may be able to dunk a basketball. There are reports that i may have just broken the record for the nba threepoint title. There are reports, may. So heres the raw truth that is exposed in just those few Text Messages. Everyone except for the actual mob and donald trump watching was on the same page as they watched the horrifying insurrection transpire. Everyone except for those entities, the mob cracking the skulls of cops, stealing their guns, and donald trump, everyone else immediately recognized it was wrong, it was horribly dangerous and destructive, a horrible line had been crossed and that the president alone was controlling it and could stop it. Eric boller is the founder and editor of Press Run Media where he monitors fox news and other rightwing propaganda. Jennifer williams is an Opinion Columnist at Washington Post. Also the author of resistance how women saved democracy from donald trump. And they both join me now. Eric, i think its so striking, the awkwardness here, and the fact that fox wouldnt talk about it today. And i think theyre going to address it tonight because at a certain point it just becomes untenable. But i saw a few conservatives being like look, this shows they were on the right side of things. Thats one interpretation. But they cant say that. And they cant brag about it precisely because of the fact theyve been telling the opposite story to their viewers for a year. Well, i think Chris Wallace picked a good week to quit fox news. You know, whats so interesting about these texts is it provides us a rare unfiltered look. Fox news is a closed society. They do not have anyone on fox who disagrees with them. None of these People Venture into the Public Square to have actual debates. So they lie without consequence. And theyve done it for years. And its just gotten more and more extreme. So this is the one time we get an unfiltered view into fox, and what do we find out . Theyre all raging hypocrites. And trust me, this is the tip of the iceberg. If anyone thinks hannity, ingraham and kilmeade only texted mark Meadows On January 6th, thats just not true. They all know trump doesnt read emails or texts. So they got out their white house contacts. They were texting everybody at the white house, i guarantee you. Fox is a cancer on this country. It has been for years. And this is really one of the most despicable examples that weve ever seen. And to your point, theyre absolutely boxed in. But they dont care. They know they can lie to their viewers. Their viewers expect to be lied to. And so this is their cushion that theyve always had. But they hate being exposed like this. Fox news hates being on the defensive like this. And its so blatant to everybody. And again, i think this is the tip of the iceberg, the 16 hearings are going to be amazing. I mean, you know, jennifer, theres different levels. There are people you can have an argument with, someone who believes differently than you. Sometimes you can argue with people who i think in a kind of maybe slightly bad faith way have convinced themselves to believe a thing they dont really for partisan purposes. But then theres just like outright like realizing whats happening and lying about it on air and having this sort of private set of views and public set of views. And i think weve seen some of this with the vaccine which has led i think has been part of the many causes that have led to tens if not hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths. A very similar dynamic, which is like they know, they know. And to erics point its enough of a closed society they could try to keep it all hermetically sealed but that was punctured here. Yes. This is such deep, deep cynicism. Whether its encouraging their own viewers to put themselves in harms way by not getting vaccinated or whether its continuing to shill for a president who Laura Ingraham said this is bad for all of us. Notice the us. Team trump there. These people are just deeply cynical. And you could think, well, maybe they had some philosophical issue, maybe they were doing it because they really believed in trump. No. This is about money. This is about fame. This is about keeping an audience. And the extreme bad faith is so cringeworthy. And its not just these people. Its the people who put them on air. Its the Board Of Directors including oh, by the way, paul ryan, who used to be speaker of the house. And it really is the whole kit and caboodle thats become so corrupted. I will note that liz cheney keeps repeating a number which i really love, and thats 183. That was the number of minutes trump waited before he did anything. She keeps repeating it because of of this lie that now mark meadows is telling that the president responded somehow expeditiously or appropriately. Which we know not to be the case. And of course there are a bunch of congressmen who have a problem too because some of these texts came from members of congress. And we heard last night, we heard today on the floor that there are a whole bunch of texts from members of congress, i can guarantee you theyre republicans, both before january 6th and on january 6th about the attempt to overthrow the election. And that is going to get really interesting. Yeah. Your point there. When Laura Ingraham says this is hurting all of us, which the charitable interpretation is like the republic, the whole country. The uncharitable is like all the people that got on this bandwagon that are associated with this sociopath that youre enabling. And he is destroying his legacy. Kilmeade says destroying everything you have accomplished. Eric, the irony here is they didnt give themselves enough credit because in the moment they thought that was happening. They thought this was like he had finally gone too far but in fact fox and trump together have thrown the car in reverse in the past year to basically paper over what people saw with their own eyes such that in the eyes of the people they talk to every day that legacys not destroyed. Last week Brian Kilmeade was making fun of News Organizations that are spending too much time covering the insurrection. News organizations that literally cant look left or right without new revelations about the coup tumbling into their laps. I mean, it is a torrent at this point thanks again to i think the 16 committee. Tucker carlson in september said these arent terrorists, they were tourists. Look, their job now, they are paid to show up to work every day to whitewash this coup and to whitewash this insurrection. Everybody knows they lie to their audience. Theyve been lying to their audience about climate change, about covid, about taxes, about immigrants, you name it. This is unique because this was a uniquely grotesque event on january 6th. There was this momentary flash of morality in this window for maybe 20 minutes on the afternoon of january 6th. And that window has slammed shut and as you say it has been thrown into reverse and now were just in orwellian speak over there. And i think, jennifer, you cited liz cheney, its clear to me her goal in all of this is to essentially try to use this platform to remind everyone and perhaps regain the in the moment consensus feeling of horror that i think was shared essentially across the country and across the political spectrum with the exception of donald trump and the mob. That is the project shes engaged in as far as i can tell. Absolutely. And shes doing it brilliantly. The white house isnt doing it. The democrats in general arent doing it. Of course fox isnt doing it. But she has figured out how to get peoples attention, by specifically reading out these very incriminating texts, by making sure people understand the timeline, and by making sure people understand particularly on the floor of the house today, that there were republican congressmen involved in this. And shes doing something else. And she is explaining the legal predicate for whats going on. What theyre going to get trump on if they ever get him on, is not inciting the mob. It is corruptly attempting to obstruct the congressional vote. Thats the crime. Thats obstruction of justice. And if you listened to her last night and you listened to her today again, she keeps repeating that phrase. Yep. Corruptly interfering with the house count. Thats the law. Yeah. Were going to actually play a little of that sound today. Eric boehlert and jennifer rubin, thank you. You at home stay with us. As the house prepares to vote on Holding Donald trumps former Chief Of Staff mark meadows in contempt, how much has the January 6th Select Committee learned from the documents hes already turned over to the investigation . Sure seems like a lot. What we know so far. Mr. Meadows received numerous Text Messages which he has produced without any privilege claim. Indeed, some of those Text Messages, madam speaker, came from members in the chamber right now. And years ahead. With fidelity income planning, well look at what youve saved, what youll need, and help you build a flexible plan for cash flow designed to last. So you can go from saving. To living. Xfinity rewards are our way of thanking you a flexible plan for cash flow designed to last. Just for being with us. Enjoy rewards like sing family fun nights rent sing for 1, then belt out all your favorite tunes from the movie with sing karaoke. Plus, see sing 2 in theaters with buyonegetone free fandango tickets. Join over a million members by signing up for free on the xfinity app. Our thanks. Your rewards. We are keeping an eye on the House Of Representatives this evening. They are scheduled to vote tonight on whether to refer former trump Chief Of Staff mark meadows to the Department Of Justice to be charged with Criminal Contempt Of Congress for his refusal to cooperate with subpoena from the Committee Investigating the insurrection. Earlier this evening one by one members of the house took to the floor to make their case and share new damning information that shows just how involved mark meadows was in the plot to steal the election. Youre making excuses as part of a coverup, and if you echo these excuses, if you base your arguments on these excuses, if you adopt these excuses as your own to explain why you wont take action, then youre a part of that coverup too. Mr. Meadows received numerous text meadows which he has produced without any privilege claim. Indeed, some of those Text Messages, madam speaker, came from members in the chamber right now. One of the texts to Meadows On January 3rd came from an unknown caller and referred to efforts to replace the leadership of the Department Of Justice and said the following i heard jeff clark is getting put in on monday. Thats amazing. It will make a lot of patriots happy. And im personally so proud that you are at the tip of the spear and i could call you a friend. Theyre referring to those Text Messages sent to mark meadows released last night by the Committee Investigating the insurrection. Fox news hosts and the president s son, don jr. , but also from members of congress. Yesterday the chair of the Committee Said that they were going to name names. Unnamed lawmakers were in talked about Text Messages to mark meadows saying they were sorry that it didnt work out. Who were they . Well, they were revealed to us in the information that we received from mr. Meadows, but i cant give you the names. Are those names going to come out yet and they will come out. All right. Now the committee remains tightlipped about which of their colleagues were in contact with the white house during the attack on the capitol. The committee knows a lot of details and communication, but at this point i dont think that thats relevant to where we are. But i dont think at this point its important to know the names of the individuals. But when the chairman feels compelled to relay that information, im sure youll be the first to know. So now as we wait to find out exactly who those members are, republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney, vice chair of the committees dropping another bombshell. Today she implied the committee is also looking into potential Criminal Activity by donald trump. Mr. Meadows testimony will bear on another fundamental question before this committee, and that is whether donald j. Trump through action or inaction corruptly sought to obstruct or impede congresss official proceeding to count electoral votes. This committee is entitled to mr. Meadows testimony and it will inform our legislative judgments. Congresswoman elaine lore is a democrat representing virginias 2nd congressional district. She sits on the bipartisan Committee Investigating the insurrection. And she joins me now. Congresswoman, let me follow up just starting there with your coCommittee Members, your fellow Committee Members language there which echoes a part of the federal criminal code around obstructing official proceedings. In fact, those charges have been brought against many of the members who entered the capitol unlawfully. And i wonder what we should take away from that language and whether that the contours of some sort of criminal referral are front of mind for members of the committee. Well, chris, thanks for having me again. What i would say is that as a committee were trying to paint the full picture of what happened before, leading up to, and during january 6th. And certainly any elements of that that reflect Criminal Activity are something the committee is very interested in. And all of the pieces were putting together, especially this testimony were trying to seek from mr. Meadows is part of that. Because mr. Meadows was the closest to the president. He was with him that day, during the 187 minutes, over three hours of inaction. And you know, i think its he very important to what my colleague liz cheney said, either through his action or inaction he sought to impede the proceedings of congress. I think all of that picture is becoming more clear and if there are criminal elements to this certainly those things will be made clear to the public and provided to the Department Of Justice as we move forward. Theres been talk about members of congress who were texting with mark meadows, which again at one level members of congress, republicans texting with the white house Chief Of Staff is not surprising. Presumably that happens all the time. Its in the context of this that those are quite striking. Including the one yesterday that sort of mournfully talked about it didnt work out yesterday, what a sad day. Theres a question about who those members are and whether the public has a right to know who they are and when we would find that out. I certainly think the public has a right to know. I would say that the Committee Chair is being very deliberate about when we release that information because we dont want to impede or interfere with the investigation and other witnesses were speaking to at this point. But you can certainly expect to hear those names and probably very soon. But i think that maintaining that within the committee until were ready to release it publicly is very important to the progress of our investigation right now. The referral, i imagine you anticipate will be voted out tonight, will pass probably a near Party Line Vote although i imagine kinzinger and cheney will vote with the democrats on this. What is the goal here . The goal is i imagine to actually get meadows testimony because it seems to me that unlike some of the other people, all of whom testimony seems relevant, meadows testimony is probably the single most germane witness in all of this because of the reason you cited, hes side by side with the president for those three hours. I think the goal in all of this, the goal is not to go after these people. We want these people to come speak to congress. There are over 300 people that have already come voluntarily and provided very valuable information. The ultimate goal in all of this is to get this testimony because its key and very important to this investigation. Its striking too that all of these people including the president s own son are texting with the Chief Of Staff. I dont know if theyre texting or emailing with the president. But in some ways those texts demonstrate his proximity, that he essentially is acting during that period of time, the crucial three hours, as a sort of communicative adjunct to the president if youve got his own son texting him. Thats very interesting to me. I would think gosh, the president s own son should have a line of communication to him. And to know hes going through someone else or perhaps hes not responding to anyone during this time. So perhaps his own son has to desperately try to contact someone who he thinks might be near to him standing next to him. It is very interesting that so many people used mr. Meadows as a way to communicate with the president. And obviously, thats exactly why we need to hear from him. Sort of sad and poignant in its own small way. Congresswoman elaine luria, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Next, two key organizers of the January 6th Rally are coming forward to testify. Theyre ready to name names. What we might learn from their communications with white house staffers and members of congress and what they said at a deposition, or at least one of them today. After this. After this first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. Even walking was tough. I had to do something. I started cosentyx®. Cosentyx can help you move, look, and feel better. By treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. Dont use if youre allergic to cosentyx. Before starting. Get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections some serious. And the lowered ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms. Or if youve had a vaccine or plan to. 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[ coughing and sneezing ] if youre living with hiv, keep loving who you are. Cold season is back. Bounce back fast with alka seltzer plus. With 25 more concentrated power. Alkaseltzer plus. Oh, what a relief it is so fast also try for cough, mucus congestion. Emergency planning for kids. We cant predict when an emergency will happen. So thats why its important to make a plan with your parents. Here are a few tips to stay safe. Know how to get in touch with your family. Write down Phone Numbers for your parents, siblings and neighbors. Pick a place to meet your family if you are not together and cant go home. Remind your parents to pack an emergency supply kit. Making a plan might feel like homework, but it will help you and your family stay safe during an emergency. Were you in contact with mark meadows that day and other white house officials to urge trump to do more . I was not. But i do think were all watching, as you are, what is unfolding on the house side. And it will be interesting to reveal all the participants who were involved. Thats one of the Big Questions in the january 6th investigation, what lawmakers were involved and to what extent. Back in october Hunter Walker reported in Rolling Stone that People Planning Events on january 6th, quote, communicated with members of congress throughout this process and that members who participated in these conversations or had top staffers join in included republican congressman paul gosar of arizona. At the time walker had sourced that to peopletwo people who were involved in planning a number of protests around the country including on january 6th. Those two sources told him that Congressman Gosar dangled the possibility of a blanket pardon in an unrelated Ongoing Investigation to encourage them to plan the protest. That is something Congressman Gosar denies calling the article categorically false and defamatory in a statement. But were now learning who those two people are. Their names are Dustin Stockton and Jennifer Lynn lawrence. They are conservative activists who helped organize the January 6th Rally on the ellipse. Back in november they were subpoenaed by the Committee Investigating the insurrection, and they have been cooperating. Today stockton, the man on the right side of your screen, gave his deposition to the committee as his lawyer characterized the documents he provided. There are people that are very senior in the former president s orbit and there are also even lawmakers among them who i believe have good reason to be quivering in their boots today. Are we talking Text Messages . Emails . Phone records . What are we talking about . Were talking about an allencompassing slew of documents that include all sorts of communications. That means email correspondences, Text Messages, and the like. That was today. Tomorrow Jennifer Lynn lawrence appears before the same committee. Hunter walker interviewed that couple. Hes been covering the investigation into connections between Rally Organizers and Government Officials on january 6th extensively for Rolling Stone, and he joins me now. Hunter, first lets just start with a little sort of Context Setting of who these people are. So Dustin Stockton and Jennifer Lynn lawrence are this couple that are really veterans of the republican activist world. They bonded first in the 2012 rnc. At the time jen was working for herman cain. Dustin was working for newt gingrich. They later began a lengthy association with steve bannon. And they worked on the Quote Unquote special projects desk for breitbart. They tell me they report directly to him. And these special projects included sort of somewhere between Mischief Making and dirty tricks, including embedding with Bernie Sanders protesters and spurring the antihillary clinton protests at the dnc in 2016. So theyve had this Long Association with highlevel figures on the right, including amy kramer. Dustin stockton met her in the Tea Party World and she went on to lead women for america first, which as you know was the Main Organization that got the permit for the ellipse rally. So they have a long history in republican circles. So one of the things here, so theres the ellipse rally, and theres no we know that was organized. We know members of congress were involved. Mo brooks spoke at it. We saw john eastman spoke. The president of the United States spoke there. We saw the trump crew like in the tent, right . They were involved in that ellipse rally. They were some of the chief organizers of that, right . So you made such an important point earlier in the broadcast, which is that so much of this played out right in front of our eyes. There were members of Congress Speaking on stage at that ellipse rally. There were even members of Congress Speaking or scheduled to speak at the more Rogue Wild Protest which was the name of the event that took place right on the side of the capitol. So we know there was this involvement. But you know, what dustin and jen have told me and the documents that theyre providing to the committee shed a little more light on what exactly that involvement may have looked like. So lets talk about the allegation against gosar here. They say that they spoke to paul gosar at some point, that he dangled a president ial pardon, which by the way it was due to the fact of their involvement with we build the wall, the organization that steve bannon had been involved with and he was indicted for, essentially bilking diehard maga people who were giving money to this essentially fictitious entity and using the money for lining their own personal pockets. They were involved with that as well. And gosar tells them what . Maybe that goes away if you keep it up. Well, to be clear, it wasnt a fictitious entity. They brought in about 25 million and they did erect about three miles of wall along the border. The issue with steve bannon is that you know, he represented it as a situation where he wasnt being paid and allegedly ascored according to the doj he and other members of the group took a lot of money while saying they were doing this sort of pro bono. Dustin and jen had this dramatic raid on their rv in august 2020 out at the Casablanca Resort and casino in mesquite, nevada. But they were never charged. So they felt like this was hanging over their heads. Ah. And according to them paul gosar and his Chief Of Staff Tom Van Fline called them in December Of 2020 as they had begun this antielection bus tour with amy kramer and it was basically represented to them, they say, that the pair had just left the oval office, they talked with trump, and according to them gosar said something along the lines of everybody sees what youre doing, keep it up. And the strong implication was that trump was more likely to consider a pardon for them based on the work they were doing protesting the election. We should say that bannon was part of its not a crazy notion when you think of the fact that bannon was indicted over his involvement with the exact same organization. He was then pardoned by trump after he tried very hard to essentially pull off the insurrection on trumps behalf. So its not like a crazy fact pattern to dismiss out of hand. We dont know if its true. Gosar denies it. I want to read here what they told you about why they are cooperating with the committee. Behind those noble sentiments about why theyre cooperating with the committee is a hard reality. Stockton and lawrence are running out of option. Weve seen what happened with bannon. We dont have the Resources Steve Bannon has stockton said reference bannons multimilliondollar fortune. Our options are in many ways limited. And indeed we saw stockton there today and lawrence there tomorrow. Theyre facing subpoenas from the committee. That raises the possibility of intense legal bills. And they feel abandoned by trump. Ive reported on how matt and Mercy Schlapp and matt whitaker, the former acting attorney general, have this legal fund that theyve set up for some of the trump aides caught up in this investigation. Stockton and lawrence have gotten no such aid. And they also claim to be feeling really abandoned when they watch the Rank And File Trump Supporters who heeded the president s call, went to the capitol that day, and also received no support. One thing i just want to say about paul gosar denying this. When i did the first story where dustin and jen were anonymous he claimed he never met them even though they hadnt been identified. They did in fact meet, and we published the photo of them together on the ellipse on january 6th. And gosar admits he did pursue a pardon for bannon. Thats also a very useful context. The final thing here is there does seem to be a little bit of a breakdown among some of the Rally Organizers and were seeing this with Ali Alexander as well, who was partly behind that, quote, wild protest. People trying to position themselves as yes, we were there for the Peaceable Assembly at the ellipse which yes, we were trying to get an election thrown out but we werent the ones storming the capitol. That seems the line that youre hearing from some of the people that are demonstrably associated with the organization of that rally. Yeah. As we pointed out earlier, all of this played out on live tv, essentially. But what various people among these groups are saying is we were responsible for the demonstration, you know, democrats objected to the election in 2016, we were doing something similar but we had nothing to do with the violence. In the case of dustin and jen they point a lot of the blame at ali. Ali points the blame at other people. So theres a lot of infighting going on here. I will say that one thing dustin and jen told me is that the initial plan was for everyone to remain on the ellipse while, you know, evidence was presented of alleged voter fraud. We know thats baseless, but this was the plan. They claim it was trump himself who changed that plan by, you know, making the call to march to the capitol in the final 120 words of his speech. We all saw it on tv. Now were going to go down together, he told them. Hunter walker, thank you very much. I should tell you you tomorrow night Dustin Stockton and Jennifer Lawrence will join me here on all in. Ill have lots more questions. Im sure you do too. Be sure to tune in. Still to come, dnld trumps longtime accountant reportedly testifies before a new york grand jury. The latest on that investigation. Plus what to make of the federal judge dismissing trumps bid to Block Congress from getting his tax returns. Those stories next. X tareturns. Those stories next hey google. Frequent heartburn . Not anymore. The prilosec otc twoweek challenge is helping people love what they love again. Just one pill a day. 24 hours. Zero heartburn. Because life starts when heartburn stops. Take the challenge at prilosecotc dot com. Wow. Thats so nice is that a photo of tepechitlan . Yeah the gift of ancestry®, is a walk through your history. Do you remember who this is . 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It includes the compassionate healthcare professionals, the dedicated social workers, and the supportive Peer Counselors we work with to help improve and even change peoples lives. Moving from Mental Illness to Mental Wellness starts in our circle. This is intracellular therapies. Even though the January 6th Committee voted to hold Donald Trumps former Chief Of Staff in contempt, it seemed clear from the words of the committees vice chair liz cheney that trump himself is one of the other targets of their investigation. Mr. Meadows testimony will bear on another fundamental question before this committee, and that is whether donald j. Trump through action or inaction corruptly sought to obstruct or impede congresss official proceeding to count electoral votes. This committee is entitled to mr. Meadows testimony, and it will inform our legislative judgments. Interestingly, a federal judge appointped by trump himself ruled last week that an effort to interrupt the cant youing of votes can be a crime. Thats what congresswoman cheney is referring to there. But as has been true of Donald Trumps political career he never has just one looming threat. Just a few hours ago another federal judge, another trump appointee, tossed out trumps lawsuit trying to stop a House Committee from getting his tax returns. Remember that . Even if the former president is right on the facts hes wrong on the law, wrote judge trevor mcfadden. Although hes doing that 2 1 2 years into this lawsuit. A long line of Supreme Court cases requires great deference to facially valid congressional inquiries. Even the special slis tooud accorded former president s does not alter the outcome. Now, the judge did stay his ruling for two weeks to give trump time to file an appeal. But while Congressional Democrats are still trying to get access to trumps taxes Manhattan District Attorney cy vance already has them and new reports indicate his investigation or the investigation soon to be of a successor is moving forward. The Washington Post reports, a long time accountant for former President Donald Trump who helped prepare trumps taxes and the Financial Statements his company used to woo lenders testified recently before a new york grand jury investigating trumps financial practices, according to two people familiar with that investigation. It doesnt stop there. According to the post, in addition in recent weeks prosecutors have interviewed a former Managing Director at Deutsche Bank who arranged hundreds of millions of dollars in loans to trump. The bankers interview was not before the grand jury. Instead, one person said, prosecutors pressed her about trumps role in daegz with the bank. That comes less than a week after the post reported new York Attorney general Letitia James has requested trump himself give a Deposition On January 7th as part of a civil fraud investigation. Between all that and the revelations his friends on fox and his own son were texting his Chief Of Staff behind his back, its been not a great week for mr. Trump. Its only tuesday. Unlimited cashback match. Only from discover. New vicks vapostick. Strong soothing vapors. Help comfort your loved ones. For chest, neck, and back. It goes on clear. No mess just soothing comfort. Try new vicks vapostick. If you smell gas, youre too close. Leave the structure, call 911, keep people away, and call pg e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. And call pg e right after so we can both respond out soft music hey dad, im about to leave. Dont forget your hat. Good morning. How can i help . I need help connecting with my students. Behind every last minute save, ok, that works. And holiday surprise, thank you a Customer Service rep is working unseen, making it happen. And at genesys, were proud to help them help you everyday. One of the most important things you can do is to make sure you call 811 before you dig. Calling 811 to get your lines marked its free, its easy, we come out and mark your lines, we provide you the information so you will dig safely. Over 158 Million People voted in the 2020 president ial election. The highest Voter Turnout in a century. And the central premise of Donald Trumps big lie is that millions of those ballots, millions, were illegally cast. When in reality all Data Available across the board shows that voter fraud is extremely vanishingly rare and widespread voter fraud just simply does not exist at all. That simple fact was just borne out again by the latest analysis by the Associated Press of the six Battleground States repeatedly disputed by trump, arizona, georgia, michigan, nevada, pennsylvania, wisconsin. It found fewer than 475 potential cases of voter fraud, a number that would have obviously made no difference in the 2020 president ial election. And some of the few cases of voter fraud we do know about involve republicans, not democrats. One example, in florida three residents of the villages in Sumter County were just charged with voting twice, once in florida and once out of state. According to wkmg in orlando, all three registered as republicans during the election. Its unclear if they voted in two different places by accident or on purpose though im willing to think it might just be on accident. Wkmg says this is the first time in 20 years that anyone in Sumter County has been prosecuted for anything like this. Which is not surprising because again, voter fraud is incredibly rare. Yet the myth of voter fraud is key to trumps big lie. And it was key before trump. Key to republican efforts to disenfranchise voters across the country before donald trump. In an expansive new piece in the atlantic Senior Editor van new kirk leads out those extraordinary efforts by the Republican Party to demonstrate that fraud is being com mipted by minority voters on a massive scale. And van new kirk joins me now. This is a great piece. Theres an interview with a woman named Crystal Mason whos one of the most infamous cases of this. Tell us about Crystal Masons story. So Crystal Mason, she is a black grandmother, mother, just hub of a Family Living outside of dallas, texas. And in 2016 she was coming out of a federal prison sentence and was doing supervised release. And she went out. Her mother told her to go vote. Donald trump was doing some things in 2016 and put the fire to a lot of folks. And she decided to go out and vote. She did not know that in texas she had to complete the terms of her release in order to get out and vote. So she filed a provisional ballot. It was actually denied. Yet a couple months later she was actually prosecuted for illegal voting. Despite the fact that her vote did not count. Over the course of that part of it, just to be clear here, the provisional ballot and this is one things the a. P. Found in their analysis. Provisional ballot was not even it was caught. It didnt even go into the system. Yeah. Did not count. She did not by the actual definition of anything vote. But she was convicted of illegal voting. And sentenced to five years in prison. Five years in prison. Five years. And what role did this prosecution play in the sort of Mythology Building that republicans in the state of texas and other places have undertaken . Again, even before donald trump. About the sort of scourge of these vast armies of nonwhite voters in the cities who are stealing elections through voter fraud. Well, you have to remember that texas has been at the center of a lot of of these efforts to advance voter i. D. Laws, to create this National Case that these Voter Suppression laws are necessary. Texass voter i. D. Law has been in the courts over and over again. Its been held up by the justice department. And what they needed, actually, was cases to prove that such a law might be necessary. And so over the course of the years cases like Crystal Masons and other women of color in texas who were prosecuted for, Quote Unquote, illegal voting, they became the bedrock for this narrative that built this law. And then that law after Shelby County became kind of the leading edge of a lot of these other laws in especially southern and Battleground States that have expanded Voter Suppression quite a bit. And also at the same time have created a narrative that there are more fraudulent voters. I mean, its really striking. This is the best they could come up with, someone who accidentally thought because she was on supervised release and not completed the terms of her release that she could vote, cast a provisional ballot, which was caught and not actually entered in. This was the big case. This was like oh, look, weve got our tangible evidence. And you sat down with Crystal Mason. What is her view of this, now that she is out in the world watching all of the big lie, watching the cases roll through the federal courts of people that did things like invaded the capitol in an attempt to overthrow an election . What does she make of her case and where things stand . Well, she keeps up with the prosecutions of the people involved in the january 6th insurrection. And obviously she is fascinated to say the least by the fact that so many of them are getting might be getting no jail or prison time at all or many of them are getting very lenient sentences. And when you compare that to what she got, to what she had to deal with, shes already had to go back and do eight months in prison because of this and shes facing five years now. So you look at what shes already given to this and look at how some of these folks are going to walk away with their lives relatively unchanged, youve really got to wonder, whats the point . And she does. Vann newkirk righting for the atlantic about the case of crystal maceupon i want to read one more quote where you say they gin up fear about fraud and then use the fear to prosecute Voting Infractions and then use that to examples to gin up more fear. Potential impact on turnout is bad enough but the cumulative effect on voter laws corrodes the democratic process itself. You can read more in the atlantic. Vann, thanks so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. That is all in on this tuesday night. The Rachel Maddow show starts right now. Good evening, rachel. Are you really having Dustin Stockton and Jennifer Lawrence on your show tomorrow . We are. That will be interesting. How are you going to approach this . Do you want to tell me off air or do you want to tell me in front much everybody . We had a conversation about this. I dont ill just say it honestly here, like its hard to know what to make of these individuals who i think whose record is you know, puts them in cahoots with people seeking to overturn a free and Fair Election and drumming up of some of the most insidious democratically corrosive lies that weve seen in our livelihood but who appear to be at least from what we can tell cooperating with the committee and perhaps cooperating in ways that are effective and maybe telling some