that scandal has finally broken open, and in one sense resolve today. fascinating story. unbelievable story. equally bizarre story of the governor of oklahoma, republican governor of that state, picking a fight with the pentagon that he was never going to win. but nevertheless, the governor of that state telling members of the national guard in that state that they should listen to him. trust him. they should not listen to u.s. military orders. they should instead follow him and the oklahoma state government. and they should not worry about having to get vaccinated against covid. even though there is a military rule that says all troops need to do that. that was a bizarre fight for the republican governor of oklahoma to pick that story. if national guard troops are mad at the republican governor right now there is a very good reason for that. we've got that story ahead for you again tonight as well. now, we've also got an update for you tonight on a public health official, who we've had on the show several times. someone who has been a real asset in the fight against covid-19, among other health challenges. he's been blunt, unafraid. to keep putting public health first. to not sugarcoat it. to not excuse political actions. he has been kind of a beacon. especially in his part of the country. he has now been removed from his job. told to resign. he says, for political reasons and he will be joining us tonight to explain. so that story is ahead as well. like i said, there's a lot going on, a lot of stuff that we've been covering for a long time. all of a sudden, it has come to an act of furtherance or resolved all at once. in fact, today is the first day that i have ever seen in a government document, a day described as day zero. today was apparently days hero. one of the things that we've been reporting for the last few weeks is that, this week, it's the big summit for democracy. no one president biden promised very early on after he was elected. in the face of rising authoritarianism, attacks on democracy is a system of government, president biden announced very early on that he would convene a summit of democracy. it would be 110 countries from around the world to join forces and to trade best practices and talk about defending against this rising tide of authoritarianism. and to talk about sticking up for democracy as a form of governance. as we've been reporting, the summit of president biden, is due to start tomorrow. it is listed on the schedule. tomorrow's day one, friday's day to. but apparently, they had so much that they wanted to get to that they decided that they would start a day early. they would start today and called today, day zero. because they still wanted tomorrow to be day one. and they needed a day before that. anyway, today was day zero, tomorrow's day one. they are streaming the whole thing online so you can watch the session as it happens. you can watch the session on media freedom and women's political and civic participation and leadership us the blood of democracy. so a whole bunch of stuff. it's interesting, it's really constructive if you care about democracy versus authoritarianism. i watch this stuff on and off all day today. tomorrow, president biden will be there himself, he will convene other heads of state on countering authoritarianism. standing up for the free press and for the rule of law. secretary of state, tony blinken, took the lead in the summit today and he also wrote in the newspaper usa today, it said, quote, president joe biden is bringing more than 100 governments together for the summit for democracy. and whether you live in a country where democracy is strong or where the chance of a free and fair election is nonexistent, this matters to you. democracy and authoritarianism our global phenomena. they don't stay contained within borders. ideas spread. news travels. autocrats see how misinformation campaigns or sham trials worked in other countries and then they tried them at home. they point to divisions within democracies to make the case to their citizens that democracy is an inferior system that could never deliver for them. but likewise, when democracies do foster strong and inclusive economies, when they handle political disagreements without bloodshed, when they provide public safety without denying civil liberty, they maintain peaceful transitions of power, when they do all those things, others around the globe see both results and want them for themselves. in other words, what we do in our own countries shapes what other countries do in theirs. secretary of state, tony blinken, right in the paper usa today, making a good point, frankly. authoritarianism does have a way of spreading. but democracy does to, particularly when it works and when it delivers results for its people. that being said, the sort of complementary counter point to secretary blinken today is one that you could find here, projected on the outside of the east building of the national gallery of art tonight in downtown washington d.c.. it says, biden, our democracy is crumbling. what are you going to do? this projection on pennsylvania avenue tonight is timed to coincide with the international democracy summit, and of course, they put it up in just the right place for anybody to say who lives on pennsylvania avenue. and thereby might see it. this is put up tonight by a group called the declaration for american democracy, which is a very large coalition of good government and activist groups trying to get the freedom to vote act passed. so we stop crumbling our own democracy at home. i mean it is heartening in some ways that the u.s. is trying to take the whole leader of the free world seriously again. but we do have our own set of problems. an unusually acute series of problems right now with the political right really fragrantly turning away from democracy. really turning away from the idea of a free world at all alone one that we lead. both through diplomatic leadership and also through our example. i mean, president biden invited these countries to the summit this week right after he had his big one-on-one meeting with vladimir putin. purpose of that meeting, yesterday, was to pursue him to not invade his neighbor. to not invade his neighboring country of ukraine again, like he did a few years ago. russia is a dictatorship. russia is an authoritarians country where the permanent leader has outlawed all the political oppositions. not just outlawed, but assassinated and imprisoned all the opposition leaders that might have posed a threat to him. he is running a criminal gangster state where his government is merged with organized crime groups. among other things, to run ransomware and criminal hacking where that target countries and companies. what also individual, hospitals, all over the globe, but especially in the u.s.. with protection from the russian government while they do it. russia is not the good guy here. ukraine, on the other hand, is our ally. a democratic country, technically the largest country in europe. they have been independent for 30 years, as they followed the soviet union, 30 years ago this month. not for nothing we the united states literally made binding signed security pledges to ukraine, 30 years ago. when we persuaded them that they should give up the thousands of nuclear weapons that had been stationed in ukraine when they were part of the soviet union. we told them, in writing, in a binding document, you give up those nuclear weapons and we will accept some responsibility for your security. it is a good thing, that he gave up those nuclear weapons, as did the former soviet states. we help that have been in part by promising that we will take care of you, we will be your ally, we will help watch out for your security. now, for putin's part, he appears to be bored with just having russia to play with. he apparently is feeling expansionist, he thinks that we know for sure that the soviet union should not have never broken up. he calls that the biggest political catastrophe of the 21st century. he apparently thinks that he should have control of ukraine, even though ukraine is a separate country. he kind of likes the idea of a little renewed russian empire of his own. and so, he did send troops to invade ukraine and he sees part of their country and now says that is part of russia, that was several years ago. what these -- he is now threatening to do it again. we have an ally in this fight and in antagonist in this fight. ukraine is our ally. and here's president biden this week trying to convene the democracies of the world, which among other things, means no, not russia, you're not invited. he is doing that, i think not coincidentally at the same time, that he is brushing back putin and warning him not to invade our ally, ukraine, again. but again, look at what is going on inside our own country. look at what is going on in the political right right now. here is biden trying to say that we lead the free world, right? and we want democracy to once again fill its sails and be the rising form of government on this globe. we want to lead that both as a democratic leader and to lead by example. and here is the cover right now of news magazine on the political right of this country. vlad the great. post trump putin becomes master of the world. cheers. champing. that is the news on the magazine this month. look at the lower third half on the screen right here. why should we be responsible for ukraine safety? or this one. nato only exist to torment putin. oh, poor putin. or this one. putin just wants to keep this western borders secure listen, i know you're calling it an invasion but look at it from his perspective. he just needs a little slice. russia wants to keep invading neighboring countries and taking over pieces of them. the guys hungry. look at how big and strong he is. strong like bull. he needs protein. he is so great, let's see if any of our other allies might seem like tasty snacks to him. i'm sure that would appease him, just let him have little bits of other countries, it's fine. it's understandable he wants them. all those pictures of putin shirtless, we got from the fox news channel, because they have them on a loop. well that's weird. there is a weirdness around this on the political right right now. this aggressive expansionist dictatorship is threatening to invade one of their neighboring countries, it's a country we happen to be allied with, and the conservative media in this country is all for it. they want us to root for the invader if and when it happens. that side of american politics right now is hard to swear with the whole concept of a sticking up for democracy. defending democracy against authoritarianism. on the political right right now, particularly in the conservative media they are on the opposite side of that. but then you look internally, domestically, and it's the same problem. the center for the justice of nyu today, put out a new practical guide. and it is very down to earth, very nuts and bolts, very how to. therefore, it shouldn't really land with an emotional punch. it's say how to guide. but the reason for this guide, the practical problem that they are now giving advice about is enough to send your stomach plunging into other parts of your body. the title of the new report is, addressing insider threats in elections. there is an act of action of to recruit rogue election officials to sabotage elections across the country. election officials were some of the biggest heroes of the 2020 election. after a grueling year that saw a pandemic unprecedented efforts, and the highest turnout in over century, election officials stood up to pressure the political actors seeking to overturn or cast doubt on the election results in key states. this collective bipartisan effort helped avoid a constitutional crisis last year. following the threats, harassment, intimidation, political pressure, disinformation, and general exhaustion that elections officials face in 2020, many are choosing to leave the administration feel altogether. in many cases, the people seeking to fill these open positions now are those who have been most activated by the conspiracy surrounding the 2020 election. on the most determined to abuse their authority to ensure a different outcome in 2024. at least ten candidates running for secretary of state, and eight running for attorney general, have received the backing of former president trump's endorsement. because they backed his false claims of the 2020 election was illegitimate. what happens of such people are interested with administering our elections? lawmakers an election official should act now to prevent such attempts to sabotage election administration in 2022 and 2024. and then, they give out a big long list of practical steps that we ought to take now. things we never thought we had to do before because there is this active in growing insider threat. inside the machinery of our democracy. people who they have put into election administration jobs specifically so they can sabotage future elections. it is all this practical advice. election officials should receive funding to install key card access a facility that holds voting systems. to store records of who enters the area. voting ballots should have a 24-hour camera, and log access. an individual should only have access to critical systems both physical and digital if the access is necessary for the individual to perform the official responsibility of that job. people should go through background checks before receiving access to critical systems. officials and workers undermine -- integrity. should be removed. in some cases, the entity that appointed an official, they simply far that person and other state officials may hold power to remove election administrators or stripped them of their responsibilities. officials may also seek permission from the court to do so. state and local officials as, well as their attorneys should be familiar with the removal options available and be prepared to take steps necessary to protect our election infrastructure, from insider threat. where appropriate, law enforcement officials should also pursue prosecution against election workers who temper with or allow unauthorized access to voting systems and election materials. state law may require updating to adjust this conduct. again, it's a laundry list of really practical security stuff that can be put in place now. it's all very practical, and symbolic stuff. but the fact that this is needed, the fact that we need to do this now, because of the systematic effort by the former president and his party to stuff people into elections administrations specifically because they are alleging they will overturn election results for him, unlike the people who wouldn't do it for him in 2020. that moment is upon us. addressing the insider threats in elections. i mean, take one high profile for example, there's been a lot of political coverage this week over former president trump endorsing david perdue to run for governor in georgia. the reason you want somebody else to run for governor in georgia even though the republican governor there standing for reelection, it's because brian kemp certified the georgia election results. which were that joe biden beat donald trump there in 2020. so donald trump wants somebody to unseat brian kemp as georgia governor because governor kemp certify the election results. david perdue reportedly didn't want to run for governor, he apparently doesn't want to be governor georgia, but trump wants him for that job. trump forced him into that race, and endorsed him in that race. and of course, naturally, today, david perdue proclaimed out loud that if he were elected governor, he will be an insider threat in that state elections. he told it flat out today that had he been governor last year he would not have certified the election results in georgia where biden beat trump. he would not have certified those results. which means, presumably, the reason trump is promoting purdue for governor in georgia is that if he gets the job this time around, he really truly, won't certify the election results in georgia if and when joe biden beats trump there again in 2024. so yeah, we are the leaders of the free world, and we are hosting a summit for democracy, and we have our own challenges on that front. both in terms of whether or not you know, half the governing -- one of the two governing parties and it's supportive media in this country actually supports democracies around the world against authoritarian's that want to invite invade them. but also in terms of whether or not the same governor party and the conservative media that supports it believes that u.s. elections are something that should continue the way we understood them to be carried out over the centuries, right? whether or not u.s. elections, you are small d democracy should be a democratic one partisan thing. today in the january 6th investigation, the investigation to the violent attack of trump supporters on the capitol in january to try and stop the election being certified. today former president trump's white house chief of staff mark meadows declined to appear for testimony that he had been subpoenaed to give this morning. the investigation says that mark meadows is therefore likely to be found in contempt, he is potentially going to be criminally prosecuted for contempt. mr. meadows ended the day today by suing at the committee that is conducting the investigation and what appears to be an effort to track this thing out, to slow it down. and on top of that, another surprise today we also learned that the for mr. meadows decided to bill on his subpoenas and -- he did hand over some materials to the committee that they find useful for their investigation. in a letter to mark meadows's attorney from the -- investigation beyond thompson today, thompson writes this, he says, quote, despite your very broad claims of privilege, mr. meadows has produced documents that you currently agree are relevant to not protected by any privilege at all. those documents include, an email from november 7th 2020 discussing the appointment of alternate slates of electors as part of a direct and collateral tack after the election. also, an email to the january 5th 2021, the day before the attack on the capital, regarding a 38-page powerpoint briefing titled, election fraud foreign interference and options for the 6th of january. that was to be provided quote, on the hill. also among others, and email jaded january 6th about having the national guard on standby. the condition to those documents -- wait there is more. chairman also describes quote, the text messages you didn't produce to the investigation. including a november six 2020 tax message exchange with a member of congress apparently about appointing alternate electors in certain states, as part of a plan that the member of congress acknowledge should be highly controversial, and to which mr. meadows apparently said quote, i love it. so a text message with a member of congress three days after the election about a plan to appoint alternate electors in certain states. alternate electors meaning -- that is having states declare that trump won when in fact biden run. meadows the white house chief of staff at the time says i love it, as in i love that plan. also an email exchange the following day on the same topic, calling that sort of plan a direct and collateral attack after the election. directing capitol attack on the election results. having republican controlled states that trump won in states that he didn't win, this is just a few days after the election. we already know that he made a surprise visit to georgia in december to look and personally on that state auditing and counting its votes. we know he also hosted the january 2nd conference call in which trump repeatedly battered and pressured georgia secretary of state that he needed to find exactly enough votes to declare trump the winner in georgia, even though georgia is a state that he had lost. meadows also repeatedly pressured justice department officials that they needed to open an investigation into bogus and truly bizarre conspiracy theories about supposed fraud. he did that in late december and january. now today these new revelations showing that meadows was knee deep in the deepest end of the stuff, trying to get states to send alternate electors declaring trump the winner when biden had won. he was knee-deep in the staff and the immediate aftermath of the election. joining us now is a leading member of the january 6th investigate -- adam schiff. congressman schiff, as most with you. >> good to be with you. >> what do you make of the fact that mr. meadows is not only, not cooperating with the investigation defying subpoenas from the investigation, but now suing members of the investigation including each of you individually in addition to the whole committee? >> well it's a frivolous effort to try and delay matters, or to appease the former president. as a former member of congress himself, he knows he can't bring lawsuits against members of congress -- and that his lawsuit will be dismissed as well -- but i guess this is part of his decision to try and go back to being in the good graces of donald trump who is apparently upset about his book, or he is cooperating, or who knows why. but as you point oh, this no way to sustain the argument that i can't come and testify because that would be privileged. but here are all these documents on this very subject which i admit are not privileged. i can't comment on the -- for congress but i can read about it in my book. you can't have it both ways. so we will proceed and i believe hold him in contempt and refer him to the justice department as we did with mr. bannon. >> do you have any sense of what the timing would be on that? time is of the essence here, it seems like a lot of these tactics are delay tactics of various kinds hoping to search that as long as possible, hoping to run off the clock on the investigation. if there is going to be a contempt vote for mr. meadows, potentially contempt referral for him to be prosecuted. how soon with that happen? >> i think it will happen very soon. we are mapping out how quickly we can produce the committee report recommending the course of action, when we can take that -- we are in the last days of this year and there is still some vital work that has to be done on raising the debt ceiling, so we know we will be here for part of next week. we want to get this done right away, because as you say, they are trying to delay, we are trying to get to the truth. we had one violent attack on our capital, we don't want another. getting to the full truth of who was involved, the president, members of congress, the chief of staff, whoever was involved trying to overturn our election, we need to get to the bottom of it and make recommendations to protect the country. >> congressman, one thing we have covered recently on the show is an assertion in a recent deposition by investigative counselor working for the committee that this document that justice department official jeff clark sent trying to get georgia to essentially overturn the election results there, is very controversial document from jeff clark something that obviously the committee has shown great interest in talking to mr. clark about it would put the justice department -- its gravitas authority behind an effort to tell state officials that they need to change the results. it appears from a discussion in that deposition that there was white house metadata on that letter to georgia officials, suggesting that the letter to those georgia officials might have originated in the white house, that this might not just be a jeff clark problem, it might be a trump white house problem. is that your understanding of that situation, are those in the implications of that metadata, do we have this the right way around? >> i think that you do, on the basis of what the committee has disclosed about questions we posed to mr. clark, that there was metadata indicating a white house role of some kind, or communications with the white house of some kind. this is exactly why we need -- these witnesses to testify so we can understand what part to overturn the election was white house involved, what part was the president personally involved in, one expectation was there that the last-ditch effort might involve islands against the capitol to delay or obstruct the certification of the electors. and -- preview the segment with our analysis of our democracy efforts abroad. because when the stuff comes to light, and we see at the highest levels of the justice department and the potential involvement of the white house and trying to overturn the election in georgia as you say, electors don't -- you see how much backside there is that home even as we try and champion democracy abroad. >> california congressman, member of the january 6th investigation, congressman adam schiff, again so i know it's a busy night, thanks for joining, us i really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> all right we have much more ahead tonight. it's one of those shows that's like -- ten pounds in a five pound bag. that's here stay with us. with us so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. ♪ ♪ cases of anxiety in young adults are rising as experts warn of the effects on well-being caused by the pandemic. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [uplifting music playing] ♪ i had a dream that someday ♪ ♪ i would just fly, fly away ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ our retirement plan with voya, keeps us moving forward. hey, kevin! hey, guys! they have customized solutions to help our family's special needs... giving us confidence in our future... ...and in kevin's. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. do you struggle with occasional nerve aches in your hands or feet? try nervivenerve relief from the world's #1 selling nerve care company. nervive contains alpha lipoic acid to relieve occasional nerve aches, weakness and discomfort. try nervivenerve relief. want to save on your home internet? xfinity is proud to support the emergency broadband benefit program. for a limited time, you may be eligible to qualify for a credit of up to $50 a month toward your internet service through this program. that's right! you could qualify for a credit of up to $50 a month toward your internet service and equipment. for even more value, switch to xfinity mobile, and you could pay as little as $15 a month for wireless. click, call, or visit a store to learn more. all right, i want to bring you an update on the story that we reported here a few weeks ago. it was infuriating. and it resonated with a lot of you watching at home. we heard from a lot of you after we did this story. this is a story that started january 2020, january of last year. the u.s. launched a drone strike that killed a very famous general in iran's revolutionary guards. and a few days after that, iran retaliated against us. they launched a missile attack against u.s. troops. they were stationed in iraq, a base called -- iran launched 13 missiles that were huge. each of them had an explosive pay load of 1000 to 2000 pounds. these were missiles the size of trucks. and they landed more than a dozen of them on this one base. this is the largest missile strike in world history. and it was clear from looking at the aftermath, how much damage the base had sustained. the u.s. soldiers that were at the base of the time of the attack, sheltered in bunkers. dozens of soldiers at the base were wounded. many of them were diagnosed with serious traumatic brain injuries from those bless. but for whatever reason, the president at the time, president trump, decided that he didn't want to admit that american soldiers were hurt in the attack. he wanted to play down and even demi great their injuries. even for a president from home we were used to hearing shocking things, it was kind of a sickening display. >> mister president, a question from, iran initially, you said you repeatedly to -- iran retaliated from the soleimani strike no americans were injured. we now know at least 11 u.s. service men were airlifted from iraq. can you explain the discrepancy? >> no i heard that they had headaches and a couple of other things but i would say that i can report that it was not very serious. >> not very serious. just some headaches. a little bit of a bellyaching, they wanted rides on airplanes? they wanted rides on helicopters? fly. that's what president trump said at the time. not very serious, not very serious. amidst those repeated, astonishing claims from the president about those battle injuries. cbs news reported last month that the doesn't of u.s. soldiers that were injured in that attack, either never heard back after the sent in their paperwork or, according to reporting from usa today, they were quote, discouraged from filing the paperwork to apply for a purple heart. wounded soldiers, discouraged from filing the paperwork at all to get a purple heart. purple heart is a solemn, sacred, commendation from the u.s. military. it also comes with a bunch of practical benefits including priority medical care at the va. it's an important thing. captain jeffrey hansen, was an officer at the base at the time of the attack. he himself was wounded in the attack. he told cbs news last month, quote, the messaging i was getting was just the political situation was not going to support more approval in a more approval of purple hearts. we have this clip from veterans day. >> when the word came down who was going to get a purple heart, we asked what the criteria was and who was going to get them in who wasn't going to get them and the message we got back was don't ask any more questions you are going to get what you're gonna get. and be happy that you're getting what you are getting. >> as i said, we covered the story a few weeks ago, we heard from a lot of you. because it was just galling. what a shameful chapter in our history. we talk about supporting the troops. how about supporting the troops, wounded in battle. by a foreign enemy attacking them for being u.s. troops. here is the update. tonight, we can report that thanks in large part of the cbs news breaking it wide open, today, the u.s. army announced that it is awarding a purple heart to 39 more american soldiers who were injured in that attack. purple heart nomination for an additional 11 u.s. soldiers are also being considered. when we heard the news today, we called captain hansen, who we interviewed last month. and i asked him for his response. he told us this tonight, i am extremely grateful for the army leadership who conducted this review in such an expeditious manner. the numerous leaders who work tirelessly to make this happen our validation that our professions take care of our soldiers to make this happen above all else. again, he himself, wounded in that attempt. it has taken nearly two years. but today, something astonishing and astonishingly cruel, that was done to dozens of wounded american service members, finally getting undone. e. a cold is not just a cold. unlike other cold medicines, coricidin provides powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure be there for life's best moments with coricidin. now in sugar free liquid. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? 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[daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. are you taking a statin drug to reduce cholesterol? it can also deplete your coq10 levels. i recommend considering qunol coq10 along with your statin medication. the brand i trust is qunol. what i've learned from so many years . . . . . . of living with hiv is to enjoy every moment. last summer, the democratic my name is hugo and i'm on biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment . . . . . . used for hiv in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to . . . . . . and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low, it cannot be measured by a lab test. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a build-up of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding . . . . . . or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv . . . . . . keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. governor of the great state of kansas, signed a mask rule. a mask requirement to stop the spread of covid. almost immediately, the republican control of legislature in that state, stripped the governor of her ability to enforce that mask requirement. so a statewide mask rule didn't really have been. only a handful of kansas counties decided on their own that they would keep a mask rule in place. so thanks to the action, you had most counties with no mask rules, some counties with a mask rule. and among other things, that created an opportunity for research. an opportunity to compare the performance of those counties. do mask rules work? well after a few weeks, the secretary of the health department in kansas put out this chart. tracking the spread of covid across the state. the line an orange, represents the handful of counties in kansas that were requiring mask. the line in blood, was everywhere else. everywhere without a mask rule. surprise, very clear results. the infection rate was way lower in places where people were required to wear a mask. because, look, science, masks do work. when she presented these findings to the public last summer, he bluntly explained how he called it a natural experiment in kansas. that kansas health secretary is a physician trained in family medicine, his name is dr. lee norman. he took the job in 2019. he has led the states covid response since. he stood alongside the governor during her press conference, he did his own daily briefing. in those briefings, well dr. lee norman, became known for and respected for being a blunt talker. a straight shooter. when the republican-led legislature in kansas, for example, undid the governor's ban on large gatherings early on in the pandemic. doctor norman released a statement blasting the lawmakers for having me kept the pandemic response. nothing fun, nothing fancy. whatever kansas legislators do doesn't reverse what the public needs to do. stay at home so we could beat the scourge, despite what leaders of the legislature say. we are so close, and they are doing politics. don't fall for it. i am so angry. shame well >> that was the kind of guy they had in charge of their covid -- blunt talking, no politics, let's just talk about the pandemic and public health on what needs to be done. here's the evidence. that is what he's been doing. until now. doctor leigh norman, has been pushed out. told to resign from his job as secretary of health in kansas. according to emails obtained by the kansas reflector newspaper. the governor's office told well dr. lee norman, that is blunt talk about covid that he's been so admired for was apparently exasperating -- with republican lawmakers. it was making it harder for the state governor to persuade republican legislators to okay policies, to try and keep the pandemic under control. too much straight talk. dr. lee norman toll the radio that that tension is the reason why he was asked to resign. he said that he feels like he was, quote, fauci out of his job. joining us now is doctor leigh norman, until recently was -- thank you for being here. i'm sure that this was a tough time for you. >> thank you rachel, always good to see you, even under the circumstances. >> well these are unusual terms. i'm sorry that you have been asked to leave your job. all i know about it is what i have been able to fall in the local press. and to the extent that you've been able to do interviews, let me ask if i misconstrued any of that, or anything else that we should understand about why you were told to leave. >> what no, you pretty well nailed it there, rachel. and i have always been a rather fine talker when it comes to things that i think the public needs to know. and i think what i love working in this administration. and i think that it was hard for me to not disclose and be transparent about the things that i thought the public needed to know. even if we needed to give them early information today. weather was tomorrow, a month, or year from now to correct that information as we got more information in. but i would like to put it out there, and speak the truth. but i think it was poorly received in some orders, needless to say. >> and to be clear, it doesn't sound like you and governor kelly had strong differences of opinion in what's needed to be done in kansas to try and hold the pandemic to try and mitigate the devastation of the pandemic. it sounds like the issue was your sharpness of tone. your acuteness of tone. it was a diplomacy issue, not policy differences. is that fair? >> it's really fair to say that i am not a politician. i am many things, i'm a doctor, an arm me colonel, many things, but a politician i have never been accused of being that. and i don't think it's really about sharpness of tone, although i have to say, when people misrepresent the facts very deliberately and they put the public in jeopardy because of their misrepresentation. what my retorts might hurt their feelings a little bit. but it is really not about peoples feelings when it's legislators for example. we need to correct misinformation to protect the public. well this isn't about egos or politician. this is about, what do we do to help get our public through this pandemic. >> dr. lee norman one of the reasons why wanted to talk to you tonight is because i wanted to hear from you what happened here. particularly because we've been following your earlier shred in kansas. it has been a beacon. but what has just happen in terms of you being pushed out of this job feels like a story about this country right now. you talk to casey about this. the hostility towards health officials. it is not unique. we saw that the national level, targeted for health officials up to a concluding doctor fauci. but we are seeing it in a lot of states around the country even with local county health officials. now that you have been on the receiving end of it, do you have any idea or suggestions about what the antidote might be? so more people like you aren't forced to resign so that people who speak bluntly and clearly in public health matters, are protected? >> you are absolutely right rachel, there have been hundreds of public health officials who have been retired, resigned, fired, pick the word. even stepped down. and i think that the public health is always political. whether it's around contraception, sexually transmitted in mrs., or things that we've talked about in the past. but it has never been so partisan. and i think the hardest, things particularly in the state like kansas and many other states, there is such bitter partisanship. especially in a state like kansas, where the governor is one party and the dominant forces in both houses of legislatures are on the other side. then it really gives partisan. and i think that what is lost in this is the fact that we should put peoples health first. and i think that a lot of time partisanship is trumping public health and it should be the other way around. and i think the only way we can do that is try to find the common ground in the middle. and i think that there is common ground, and that is where we are both afraid. people who don't want vaccines are maybe afraid of the side effects are the long term effects. people who get vaccinated are afraid of -- if we could start talking about fear, meeting in the middle, the maybe we could have some productive dialogue. >> dr. lee norman, former secretary of the kansas health department, recently pushed out of that job. sir, thank you for your service. and the army, thank you to your service for kansas. and thank you for being here. i know that you are nowhere near retiring, you're not the type. we expect to have you back here soon. >> thank you very much, i appreciate it rachel, good to see you. >> take care, will be right back, stay with us. ay with us credit card debt? 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(combative yelling) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. the governor of the great state of oklahoma is a man in kevin stitch, you probably never heard of him. he would like to change that. you would like to be more famous than republican politics. i say that because recently he picked a fight, and ill-advised fight, that really appears to have just been designed to raise his political profile in republican circles. he decided that he would claim that it doesn't matter what u.s. military borders are, it doesn't matter what the pentagon says, as far as he, the governor of oklahoma is concerned, members of the oklahoma national guard don't have to get vaccinated against covid-19. i have to emphasize he has really been grandstanding on this. he is holding press conferences on it. he was trying to squeeze as many political points out of this as he can. when all said and done though, he won't be the want to pay the price. he won't be the one who has to cash this check that his mouth has been riding. it's all the members of the oklahoma national guard that might have been listening to him, and following him down this path. because today the pentagon made very crystal clear that if the national guard members of oklahoma follow their governor on this, it will cost them their careers. this is the policy the air force laid out today in detail, outlining exactly what refusing to follow the vaccine requirement will mean if you are a member of the international guard. excluding members with pending or proved exemption request, international guard members that haven't initiated a vaccine regiment by the end of this month may not participate in drills, training, or other duty conducted under title ten, or under title 32. those with remaining -- individual ready reserve. to unpack that a little bit, i will tell you first the individual ready reserve as part of the military that doesn't train or trail, which means they don't get any pay or benefits. so involuntarily reassigning people to a part where they get no pay or benefits means they don't get paid anymore and they don't get any benefits anymore. that reference the title tenant title 32, that is the two different ways the national guard is activated. most of the time they operate under state jurisdiction. but sometimes they also act under federal authority, with the pentagon made crystal clear today as it does not matter for these oklahoma guys men and women when it comes to the vaccine status. if their governor has about sandbagging against writing floodwaters, or operating a vaccine clinic, or if it's the president sending them off to a war zone somewhere under federal authority. if they are training for either of those things, either either state or federal authority, they have to be vaccinated. or they are out, with no pay, and no benefits. the governor of oklahoma has been telling guardsmen and women in his state otherwise, for a month now in what appears to have been a political stunt. what he has been playing with is their careers. leading members of his own national guard off a cliff on this one. we now know the edge of that cliff will be at the end of this month. well done. if you allif you al hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ look! oh my god... i want my daughter riley to know about her ancestors and how important it is to know who you are and to know where you came from. ♪ we're discovering together... it's been an amazing gift. ♪ my retirement plan with voya keeps me moving forward. it's been an amazing gift. they guide me with achievable steps that give me confidence. this is my granddaughter...she's cute like her grandpa. voya doesn't just help me get to retirement... ...they're with me all the way through it. voya. be confident to and through retirement. do i need to pretreat my laundry? 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