documents falsely claiming that the justice department was investigating serious fraud in the presidential election and, therefore, advising georgia and other state legislatures, the states won by joe biden that in light of that serious supposed fraud in the election that the justice department was supposedly investigating, those states should reconsider sending bidenns electors to the elector college. in other words, they should think about sending trump electors to the electoral college, calling their states for trump even though biden had won. now, the broader picture here, of course, is that, you know, the u.s. justice department brought charges. but that physical attack really appears to have been just one part of a larger effort to flip the election results and keep trump in power even though he had lost re-election. the u.s. justice department for all of those prosecutions against allse of those individuals, they have shown no outward sign at all that they're investigating anyone other than those individuals, that they're investigating any other part of that plot to flip the election results. the u.s. justice department appears to d only be investigating, only be prosecuting rioter who is physically entered the capitol. nothing to do with the broader scheme to intimidate election officials, which in every state in theof country and under fedel law is a crime. so, you know, it is possible that the justice department is looking at that, and that may be we don't know about it. as far as we can see, there is nothing there as far as potential prosecutions. that left it to the january 6th investigation in y congress. and they have been looking at that. they have been looking at the january 6th attack as part of a larger plot to overthrow the election. that is just one physically violent component to a larger, organized scheme. and jeff clark, this trump justice department official reportedly drew up plans for the justice department to hold a press conference announcing that it was investigating massive fraud in theng election. jeff clark, who reportedly drafted a letter to georgia and to other states advising the states of this supposed investigation which wasn't actuallywa happening and thereb advising them they needed to hold off sending biden electors to the electoral college. they needed to re-consider their electoral e-states. this week that official, jeff clark, was o held in contempt f him refusing to comply with their subpoena for testimony and their subpoena for documents related to his role in this whole mess. and part of the drama that we all covered over the course of this week was the committee finding him in content and holding in abeyance the fact they will a refer him for crimil contempt prosecution. they can make a referral to the justice department to prosecute him for contempt if they wanted to. they did that for steve bannon. they have not yet done that with him. that will be t resolved shortly. here's the thing, though. as part of the process of holding jeffrey clark in contempt thisre week, again the committee did hold him in contempt. the referral to the justice department is another matter that remains to be scene. as part of the process of holding him in contempt, which is am formal process, the januy 6thpr investigation this week publically released all their doings thus far with the jeff clark, their letters to him and from him, their communications with his counsel. they also released the transcript of what happened when jeff clark actually showed up for his deposition. i mean, trump adviser steve bannon didn't even show up for his deposition. jeff clark did show up. but he still didn't testify. he refused to answer any questions at all while he was there. we can see that because the committee released the transcript. it really is 50 pages like, sort of eye crossing pages of him and his lawyer refusing over and over again to answer any question. and he's not asserting individually some specific source of privilege that gives him an excuse to refuse to answer each individual question. he won't say, in fact, why he's refusing. he makes these blanket gestures in the direction of privilege, but he doesn't actually claim any individual privilege. he just refuses to answer all questions. and after this goes on for pages and pages and pages, in what's supposed to be the middle of the proceedings, he and his lawyer just get up and walk out. here is a little section of it. i will say for maybe the fifth or sixth time, we're not going to engage in legal argument at this point. if you want to engage in legal argument in letters or court filings, we'res happy to do th, but we're not going to do that in this deposition. so i think we have reached an impasse. >> well, i have two follow-up questions. >> jeff chark himself jumps in. i would say we have not reached an impasse, but for today i think that we're done. clark's lawyer, we're done. yeah. we're done for the day. congressman. well, i want to follow up on this questionow about attorney-client privilege. who is the attorney and who is the client that are a covered b the privilege here? clark's lawyer: it's asked and answered. >> well, forgive me, but who is the answer and who is the client in the attorney-client privilege being asserted in your letter? we're happy to engage in that dialogue in correspondence with committee counsel, but we're not going to do it in this deposition. wow, okay. i yield back. where hed yields back to the chief counsel for the investigation, the top lawyer for the investigation who then says, quote, okay. well, i can tell you that we're not going to conclude this deposition, but then sure enough jeff clark and his lawyer decide they're concluding the deposition. theylu get up and they walk out. and, so, we can now see from what happened when he came in and refused to provide any testimony, that's why he was held in contempt. they subpoenaed him for testimony. he wouldn't testify. he wouldn't give any testimony. he also wouldn't give any documents to the committee. but you have to -- you always have to keep reading at this point. it is the reason why like whenever you go to do an interview off sight somewhere, if you get raw footage of somebody going somewhere, you always want the camera running from before people walk into the room and you want the camera running after you all say thank youte and it's over because the best stuff sometimes happens after you walk out of the room or after somebody decides it's over because after jeff clark left this deposition, after the committee counsel is like, no, we're not done here and clark and his lawyer got up and walked out anyway, well, the committee kept talking. the, investigation, their partf the deposition, they just kept going. we know from the transcript that they had to release this week that something quite interesting happened after jeffes clark lef the enroom. the investigative counsel for the january 6th investigation, the lawyer for the investigation hired to lead the inquiry here, after clark and his lawyer get up and walk out, he said, well, nevertheless, we're here. we're meeting. is an official meeting of the investigation. let's put on the record all the things i would have asked jeffrey clark about had the dude nott just up and stormed out. and for the purpose of getting it on the record, he gives this whole long list of things that they wanted to ask jeff clark about. and it's a big whole gamut. it runs for three or four pages in the transcript. they want to ask him about him potentially using personal e-mail and personal devices to do this government work. they want to ask him about his communications with president trump after the election about the election. they say they believe that jeff clark had never met president trump until after the election and they want to know about why it was they metno then and what they talked about as it pertained to the election thereafter. they want to ask him about his communications with trump campaign people. they want to ask him about his communications with steve bannon and rudy giuliani and the january 6th war room at that washington d.c. hotel. there is a whole long list of things they want to ask him about. right there in the middle of it there is this. we wanted to talk specifically with him about efforts that he proposed the department of justice take with respect to election fraud. we wanted to ask him, for instance, about a draft letter to georgia officials that he put forth that was the justice department asking georgia legislative officials to conveno a special session and consider the appointment of an alternate slate of inspectors. we intended to go through specificd representations and k for their basis. now get this. look at this. quote, i also wanted to ask him about metadata in that draft letter that indicates some involvement with the white house communications agency in the drafting or preparation of that letter. hold on. you wanted to ask him about -- about what? involvement by the white house? in that letter to georgia officials telling them they needed tote flip the election results. in this letter e here, this is e proposed letter reportedly drafted by jeffrey clark, letter to georgia from the u.s. justice department telling the state legislature in georgia that the justice department effectively wanted them to flip the election results in that state and declare trump the winner. do not send biden to the electoral college. so says the u.s. justice department. according to the chief investigative council, quote, the metadata in that draft letter indicates some involvement with the white house communications agency in the drafting or preparation of that letter. white house was involved in that? telling georgia and other states telling them to flip the results? here is why that is a head snapping development. after this deposition of jeffrey clark, this failed deposition of jeffrey clark where he refuses to answer any questions. he and his lawyer get up and storm out in the middle of it. a the transcript was released this week, including this fascinating record of everything theyin said in the room after jf clark and his lawyer left, after they publically released that document this week, jeff clark surprised everyone by telling theer committee, surprise, actually upon reflection, i'm pleading the fifth. he told them he's going to invoke his fifth amendment rights. surprise? what led him to do that? well, the chair and the vice chair have gone on the record publically, once on this show, once in the committee hearing room to say why it appears that jeff clark is now taking the fifth. >> obviously, he is aware that something went on that's illegal, and rather than be responsible and answer it, he's pleading the fifth. now the question is did you participate in these illegal activities in the white house as you know, he recommended a process by which the elections could be manipulated in certain states. >> mr. clark last night indicated that he intends to invoke the fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination. apparently because he believes testimony about his interactions with president trump would tend to incriminate him and r, thus, may subject him to criminal prosecution. >> when the chairman of the committee, betty thompson, and the vice chair of the committee made those comments this week about why it is that jeff clark is pleading the fifth, a couple of things stuck out a bit that i didn'tt quite understand when they first made those comments. chairman thompson saying, did you participate in those illegal activities in the white house? why is he saying that clark's potentially illegal activities may have been in the white house or with the white house? similarly, liz cheney, when she said that he believes testimony about his interactions with president trump would tend to incriminate him. why is it you are saying that jeff clark pleading the fifth has something to do with his interactions with president trump? what is it about president trump and the trump white house that is implicated in why jeff clark might be pleading the fifth? what he believes might incriminate him? to put an even finer point on it, you just heard from the chair and the vice chair of the investigation, here is adam schiff speaking with my colleague lawrence o'donnell. >> let's for the moment assume he's invoking the fifth amendment in food faith, which is to say he's invoking it because he believes he committed a crime. does that suggest that merrick garland's justice department should be more urgently criminally investigating what jeffrey clark was up to and who was with him in what he was up to? i want to be careful about my answer to your question. i will say generally that i think that the justice department ought to be investigating, for example, as i have said, the former president's actions in trying to overturn the election in georgia. any effort to overturn a lawful election as we have witnessed with donald trump ought to be investigated. i don't want to talk more specifically about mr. clark, but i will say, according to his lawyer at the 11th hour, he's making the assertion he did not make whener he appeared before r committee only weeks ago, that he believes his answers at least to some questions might incriminate him. now the questions most pertinent here are ones that go to efforts to get georgia to withhold the slate of electors or send a slate that doesn't represent what the voters of that slate decided, as well as an effort to similarly other states would hold their electors as well. >> ought to be investigated. the former president's actions in trying to overturn the election in georgia. the questions most pertinent here in terms of jeff clark taking the fifth amendment to avoid his -- to protect himself against self-incrimination appear to be the efforts to get georgia to withhold the slate of electors that were elected when joe biden won that state. you know, maybe that whole scheme to get georgia to flip its election results after the fact, maybe that whole effort was a crime. after nay released the transcript of this deposition and he got to see what happened there after he walked out of the room, he surprised everybody and announced that he would plead the fifth. one of the things he can read in black and white now just like the rest of us happened in that deposition after he was wrong. commit a crime in cahoots with the white house. what was the white house involvement in drafting that letter to georgia? because that letter to georgia may have been a crime. we've confirmed tonight with a source close to the committee that what's in the transcript of that deposition is accurate. one of the things the investigative counsel on the committee wanted to ask jeff clark is about metadata from that letter that suggests it was authored by the white house communications agency. a spokesperson for the committee telling us on the record today, quote, mr. clark will have to -- excuse me, will have another opportunity to answer these questions when his deposition resumes tomorrow morning, and we hope he chooses to cooperate since the spokesperson gave us that statement this afternoon, jeff clark hasta apparently contacted the committee and told them, actually, he won't appear for his deposition tomorrow morning, not even just to plead the fifth. he now says he has a medical issue, that means he can't come in and testify tomorrow at all, not even just c to take the fif. but this story further developed today when yet another lawyer involved in the same side of the same reported scheme to flip the election results, lawyer john eastman, he too has now advised the committee that he's going to take the fifth. he's going to invoke his fifth amendment rights against self-incrimination. quote, dr. eastman has a more than reasonable fear that any statements he makes pursuant to this subpoena will be used in an attempt to mount a criminal investigation against him. "politico" was first to report on john eastman taking the fifth today as they noted in their coverage, quote, eastman's decision is an extraordinary assertion by someone who worked closely with trump to attempt to overturn the 2020 election 02 results. as somebody who worked directly with the president to try to overturn the election results is taking the fifth saying he needs to invoke his right against self-incrimination. he worked with the president in those efforts. john eastman has become best known in this saga for his memos that laid out the part of the scheme by which vice president mike pence would refuse to accept the electoral votes from some states when he was supposed to be counting those votes on january 6th in the floor of the senate by trump -- excuse me, trump would thereby stay in power, eastman is the one who sketched out that scheme in his legal memos. there's another bit of involvement here by john eastman that may be more directly relevant to what's happened in this last 24 hours. as reported today in "the arizona republic" john eastman, like jeff clark, he was apparently also directly and personally involved in there pa of the scheme by which individual states got pressured that s they should not send in biden electors, even though biden had won their states. in an article today in "the arizona republic" about january 6th investigators contacting numerous officials in arizona recently asff part of their pa investigation, today the republic describes one of the matters thatth january 6th investigators discussed with the republican speaker of the house in arizona. quote, speaker bauers rebuffed a request by attorney john eastman, a law professor with chapman university. east man wanted bowers to help test a legal argument that state eastman reached out to arizona legislative staff on january 3rd wanting to discuss the upcoming meeting of congress on january 6th. he said he was representing then president trump. he said he wanted to talk with speaker bowers and others about his various reasons why quote, arizona electors could and should be objected to. according to a person familiar with the conversations. eastman spoke with speaker bowers and others on january 4th. east man claimed to them that there were all sorts of reasons for doubt about arizona's election results. wheniz pressed for details he acknowledged he was unfamiliar with the facts in arizona according to a person familiar with the discussion. i don't exactly know what the facts n'are, but i do know that you guys in the state legislator need to send trump electors to the electoral college or at least send no electors, do not send biden electors even though you have certified that biden won the state. he wanted to talk with bowers and others about his various theories about why arizona electors could and should be objected to. lawyer john eastman reportedly making that case directly to state officials in arizona pressuring state officials in arizona they should not send electors even though biden won the state. theyon couldn't say that biden won. john eastman reportedly made that case directly to state officials in arizona. now he is suddenly pleading the fifth in the investigation. that is the same case that lawyer jeff clark reportedly tried to make to state officials in georgia. jeff clark is suddenly pleading the fifth in the investigation. in the case of clark and what clark drafted to send to georgia officials, the january 6th investigators say they have evidence that what hean did the in trying to use the justice department to pressure a state into flipping its results, according to the january 6th investigation, mr. clark did not do that alone. metadata shows white house fingerprints on that document. now he's going to plead the fifth. we're going to speak with one of the senior members of the january 6th investigation in just a moment. this development in their investigation isop a sobering thing. people take the fifth, people taking the fifth all of a sudden unexpectedly, potential crimes committed and trying to overturn the election, and now sudden ly the question of whether those potential crimes involved not just advisers to the trump white house but people inside the trump white house itself who left fingerprints, who left digital metadata on their work that the committee now has. that's a lot. more ahead. son is back. bounce back fast with alka seltzer plus. with 25% more concentrated power. alka-seltzer plus. ♪ oh, what a relief it is ♪ so fast! also try for cough, mucus & congestion. we have to be able to repair the enamel on a daily basis. with pronamel repair toothpaste, we can help actively repair enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance so they only pay for what they need. (gasps) ♪ did it work? only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ spider-man no way home in theaters december 17th the xfinity black friday sales event is happening now ♪ lib on xfinity mobile.rty. liberty. ♪ now new and existing customers can get our best wireless deal of the year - up to $1,000 in savings - for a limited time only. on the most reliable network nationwide, plus nationwide 5g. act now and save up to $1,000 with xfinity mobile. so you can go all out on gifts for the family - during our best wireless deal of the year... the xfinity black friday sales event. click, call or visit a store today. this exclusive reporting we have about former justice department official, jeffrey clark. after the presidential election mr. clark reportedly drafted letters that he wanted the justice department to send to georgia and reportedly several other states essentially instructing republican state legislatures that they should look into flipping their election results to handing the election to president trump, even though biden had won in those states. this week the january 6th investigation voted to hold mr. clark in contempt for not cooperating. he had refused to give testimony or provide them any documents. he walked out of his deposition with his lawyer, but at that deposition, after he walked out one of the committee lawyers revealed this letter clark had drafted for the justice department to send to georgia state officials, the letter advising them to flip their election results, this letter contained metadata suggesting it came from the white house, specifically an office called the white house communications agency. we don't know exactly what that means. we've confirmed with a source close to the committee that indeed metadata from that letter suggests that the letter was authored by the white house communications agency. now jeffrey clark has decided as of this evening he is not only going to plead the fifth the next time he appears before the committee, but his next appearance before the committee will not be tomorrow as was previously scheduled. he now says he has a medical issue that precludes his attendance. joining us now is california congresswoman and member of the january 6th investigation, zoe lofgren, congressman lofgren, it's a real pleasure to see you. thanks very much for joining us. >> thanks for having me, rachel. >> i know that some of this is matters that's in the middle of the investigation and isn't necessarily publicly facing. everything i've suggested is publicly facing. let me ask you if i've misstated any of it? >> not that i'm aware of, no. it's interesting, isn't it? >> it is interesting. what is the significance, if we know it of the fact that there's white house metadata on that letter from the justice department to georgia state officials telling them to flip the election results? >> well, that's one of the questions we wanted to pose to mr. clark and that i hope we will yet be able to pose to him on the depositions now been rescheduled to december 16th i think. we have ascertained that his health condition is real. it's not a ruse. we did ask for evidence of that and are satisfied it's legit, so we've rescheduled. >> in terms of that letter, we do have the sort of parallel situations in which we know from public reporting that mr. clark was part of this effort to try to direct what appeared to be sort of the gravitas and the authority of the justice department toward an effort to induce states to flip their election results. we also know from public facing reporting that mr. eastman appears to have participated in a similar effort targeting at least legislative officials in the state of arizona. another member of your committee, adam schiff has been clear in his public remarks that he believed those efforts to pressure the states to change their election results that those were crimes. do you believe that those were crimes? do you believe that the potential criminal behavior as described in that public reporting is why mr. clark and mr. eastman are now fearing enough for their own -- fearful enough that they're invoking their fifth amendment rights? >> well, it could well be. it's worth reading what the fifth amendment actually says. no person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself. well, it looks like mr. clark and now mr. eastman think that there's going to be or could well be a criminal prosecution based on their actions, so they're in a position to know more than i am what they did, and i think it's a very troubling and quite possibly criminal. >> if there were -- was evidence either of state crimes, obviously interfering with or intimidating election officials is i believe a crime in every state. certainly it's a federal crime as well when it comes to federal elections. if your committee turns up sound voluminous uncontested evidence that such crimes were committed, what would the process be? obviously you guys can't bring it yourself. >> it's speculation to some extent. we're a legislative body. we're trying to get all of the facts so that we can tell the american people and also adopt legislation that would help prevent something like this from happening again. but certainly any information that we are able to discover will be made available to executive branch members who are prosecutors, either in state or the federal level. we're not doing this to keep secrets. we're doing it to shed light. >> one of the things that we've learned in local reporting in arizona and in michigan, if not in other states this week, is that investigators from your committee have made contact with local officials in those states. arizona republic had a big long rundown of all the different people at various levels of government who have been contacted by investigators from your committee. we've also had public officials in michigan say they've also been approached and have done interviews. can you tell us what the -- what the idea is behind that part of the investigation going out and talking to individual -- individual officials in states that might have been pressured? >> well, we sent our investigators around the country to get information where we have leads that something is amiss, so you know, mr. clark -- mr. eastman are not the only individuals with information. we're checking with others. and you know, we had more than 250 interviews so far. we've got more than 25,000 documents in our possession. we're working hard to pour through it, and you know, there's no one person that has all the information here. so it's a matter of putting all the pieces together as best we can, but we do believe that both clark and eastman have information that the committee needs. they have a right, if they think they're going to be prosecuted on a case by case, question by question basis to assert their fifth amendment right against testifying against themselves. the committee will then have to make a judgment on whether to allow immunity so we can get the testimony, and that's something that we'll have to consider. >> california congresswoman, member of the january 6th investigation, zoe lofgren. it is a real pleasure to have you here late on a friday night. i appreciate you for making the time, thank you. >> happy to do it. >> again, the breaking news that we've got here tonight exclusively that the january 6th investigation appears to have discovered that the incriminating letter that was drafted from the u.s. justice department to georgia state officials essentially inducing them to flip the election results in that state rather than just being the product of jeffrey clark, a single justice department official who's announced he's going to plead the fifth in that investigation, who has already been held in contempt by the investigation, rather than just being his work as has been described in public reporting, the investigation has discovered white house metadata on that document, which shows that it appears to be the product of the trump white house. if that product, if that work product is, in fact, a crime, it raises all new questions as to where this investigation is going. much more ahead hero tonight. stay with us. ead hero tonight stay with us the experts at safelite autoglass came right to me... with service i could trust. right, girl? 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(music) ♪ i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ when a truck hit my car, the insurance company wasn't fair. i didn't know what my case was worth. so i called the barnes firm. i was hit by a car and needed help. i called the barnes firm, that was the best call i could've made. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to know how much their accident case is worth. let our injury attorneys help you get the best result possible. ♪ the barnes firm injury attorneys ♪ ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ (music) ♪ the barnes firm injury attorneys ♪ ♪ i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ if you are going to join the united states military, roll up your sleeve. these are the 17 vaccinations that u.s. service members have to get before their initial entry to the military and basic training. there's two columns here, the ones on the left, hep a, hep b, the flu, measles, mumps, rubella, polio, tetanus, all those things. those nine are mandatory full stop no question. everybody in the u.s. military gets all of those first thing. the ones on the right-hand side of the screen and the right-hand column, those are regional and role specific, so they could be mandatory depending on where you're heading or what you're doing. today we got news that for members of the air force portion of the national guard and reserves, members of those forces that did not meet yesterday's pentagon deadline to get a covid vaccination, those service members are going to have a little more time to face the music, but i do bleen a little. an air force spokesperson telling the ap that for this weekend unvaccinated air guard members can report for duty for the drill weekend as usual. they'll have the opportunity to get the vaccine on the spot at their base this weekend. while they're there, commanders will use this opportunity to educate their personnel on vaccination requirements and the consequences of not complying with the mandate. that all needs to happen quickly this weekend because those consequences start on monday. as far as pentagon is concerned, if you're not vaccinated you're not deployable. we got a clear and uncomplicated order from the secretary of defense, whether or not troops are on active duty they have to get vaccinated against covid like they have to get vaccinated against all those other things so they're ready if they're called to serve. the defense secretary put out another memo making it clear what the ramifications are for military personnel. the secretaries of the air force and army will have to implement policies so that members of the national guard who refuse to get vaccinated, they won't be eligible for any federal training or for pay. all of which effectively means a slow but steady path towards being discharged out of the u.s. military. that affects not only your current military career. it affects your benefits. it means you can stop earning credits through the gi bill, for example, which is a huge deal. the pentagon has been very clear here. they're not playing games. get vaccinated or get out. if you are not vaccinated, you are not ready. we are not interested in mounting a military force that is not ready, and so you get the shot or you leave. and for most of the country this is just an issue between the pentagon and service members who for whatever reason are refusing to get vaccinated. but in the state of oklahoma, the republican governor there, kevin stit has decided to make this his personal standoff with the pentagon, one that he won't have to pay for, one that guardsmen and guards women in his state will have to pay for. in the past month he fired the previous head of the oklahoma national guard, replaced him with a new guy who put out a memo saying no matter what the federal rules are, oklahoma national guards members don't have to get vaccinated. should maybe check with the pentagon about that. now just yesterday, the republican governor of oklahoma along with that state's attorney general filed a lawsuit trying to argue that the vaccine requirement is somehow illegal. in the end, they will likely lose this fight and it will cost the taxpayers of oklahoma whatever it's going to cost them to fight this fight. it will cost the governor and the attorney general nothing in terms of their personal lives and their careers. in fact, they might even score republican political points for this. but the guard members who are following them off this cliff who are stuck between the orders of their governor and the very clear orders of the pentagon, if they decide to follow what their governor is saying, they are facing discharge and the loss of their entire military careers and their veterans benefits. so where does this go from here? joining us now i'm pleased to say is former secretary of homeland security during the obama administration, jeh johnson. he was general counsel of the defense department, general counsel of the air force. secretary johnson, it's a real pleasure to see you. it's been too long. thanks for making the time to be here. >> thanks, rachel. glad to be here. >> am i raising the relevant points here? are there other aspects you feel our viewers should know about in order to understand what kind of conflict this is and how it's likely to resolve? >> first, i think it's important to take a step back here. the active duty u.s. military and the guard in any state when federalized under the command and control of the president of the united states can be ordered deployed, can be ordered to take a hill, for example, under hostile fire, yet there's resistance to taking a vaccine ordered by the secretary of defense that so far has proven to be safer than aspirin. that's something i'll never quite understand. as you pointed out in your lead-in, there are somewhere between 9 and 17 vaccines that the u.s. military is required to take in order to deploy. so i will never understand this. now, from the more legal perspective, what's important for your viewers to understand is that a member of the oklahoma national guard wears two hats. one, you're a member of that guard's state militia working for the governor, but you're also a member of the united states national guard or the united states air force guard, and to be in the united states guard you have to be federally recognized. and to be federally recognized which is what guard members want you have to meet federal qualifications described by the department of defense. and as of august when the secretary of defense issued his memo, that includes getting the covid vaccine. and if you do not take the vaccine, you do not comply with the guidelines, you risk losing your federal pay. you're no longer able to drill with the federal reserves, and you risk being removed from the united states national guard. so this is not a complicated issue. this is not some great issue of federalism or the 10th amendment. it's simply if you're going to play in my league, you got to play by my rules. >> and when i first learned that the oklahoma governor was choosing this fight. we looked around to try to figure out if there was historical are precedent here. there is historical precedent from a few different areas in u.s. history including as recently as the 1980s during the reagan administration where some governors decided they didn't like particular deployments. they didn't like some of the things that the guardsmen and guardswomen from their state were being asked to do. we couldn't find any precedent for fighting in terms of readiness, for there being a dispute between governors to the extent they have control over their state guard troops and the federal government in terms of what it takes to be deployable, what it takes to be ready in military terms. is this in fact, new on those grounds? >> correct. >> that's right. >> so far as i can see, and i think i'm a pretty good judge of history. what guard members look forward to is federal pay. being in what we refer to as title 32 status, which means you have to meet the federal qualifications to be in the guard. you can't have it both ways. and so it's theoretically possible that somebody could leave the united states army national guard and be in a state's militia, but they're losing their federal pay. in that respect, in my view, the governor of oklahoma is doing a great disservice to his guard members if he goes down this road. >> and he does appear to be committed to going down this road. again, he will be writing the check, and they will be cashing it in terms of their careers and in terms of the impact on their livelihoods. former secretary of homeland security during the obama administration, jeh johnson, it's really, really nice to see you. come back soon. >> thanks, rachel thank you. >> all right, much more to come tonight. stay with us. e to come tonight. stay with us (tiger) this is the dimension of imagination. ♪ ♪ for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. - realtor.com's new collaboration tools made it easy for romeo and i to find the right home together. - 'cause we can see each other's favorites all in one place. - and go back and forth with comments. oh romeo, romeo, i love our new home. - realtor.com, to each their home. there are 50 schools in michigan today that are closed not just because of copy cat threats, but because student anxiety is through the roof. these kids have had enough of our crap. they're going to start demanding that we do something. and what can we do, senator? we have lots of bills that have been introduced. background check bills. we're going to have a magazine capacity bill. red flag bills. and primarily safe storage bills that could have, could have mitigated this whole tragedy. so don't say, mr. president, that there's no solutions. there are plenty of solutions. but where is the will of the majority party to do something? our students are suffering today. and we can't do nothing. >> that was michigan state senator dana pohlhanke speaking today at the michigan state legislature, this of course after four michigan students were murdered this week at their high school. a 15-year-old fellow student opened fire with a semi-automatic handgun that he had brought to school, killed these four students, shot and wounded six other students, and one teacher. this absolutely terrible case, we watched unfold over the course of this week. today the county prosecutor announced that in addition to charging the alleged shooter, this 15-year-old, they're charging him as an adult, charging him with four counts of first-degree murder and also terrorism charges, the prosecute err announced today her office is also charging his parents with four counts of involuntary manslaughter. she called their conduct in this instance, quote, criminal. the prosecutor explained today in a lengthy press conference that this 15-year-old suspect was sent back to class the day of the shooting. school officials had found a disturbing drawing he had made depicting a gun and bodies that had been blown apart by gun violence and bullets and the words "blood everywhere" and "the thoughts won't stop, help me." those drawings by the suspect were found on the morning of the shooting. the parents were called in to the school, shown the document, asked to get their son into counseling. the parents decided they would leave him in school that day and sent him back to class. what the school did not know but the parents did is they had just bought that son, they had bought the boy a gun for christmas. when they had come into the school to respond to that drawing, they did not, reportedly, check his backpack to see whether or not he had that gun with him. the prosecutor said he did have the gun with him at that time but nobody looked, and again, he was sent back to class. just a few hours later he would allegedly use that same gun to murder four of his classmates. as of tonight, the parents are nowhere to be found. state and federal authorities have been trying to find and arrest the parents for most of the day. they say they have sent their fugitive apprehension team to look for them but as of now, they are still mia. we'll be right back. stay with us. dissolves quickly. instantly ready to start working. so you can bounce back fast with alka-seltzer plus. now available for fast sinus relief. if you're washing with the bargain brand, even when your clothes look clean, there's extra dirt you can't see. watch this. that was in these clothes... ugh. but the clothes washed in tide- so much cleaner. if it's got to be clean it's got to be tide hygienic clean. no surprises in these clothes! couple more surprises. feel stuck with student loan debt? move to sofi and feel what it's like to get your money right. ♪ ♪ move your student loan debt to sofi— you could save with low rates and no fees. earn a $1,000 bonus when you refi— and get your money right. ♪ this is elodia. she's a recording artist. and get your money right. 1 of 10 million people that comcast has connected to affordable internet in the last 10 years. and this is emmanuel, a future recording artist, and one of the millions of students we're connecting throughout the next 10. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students, past... and present, can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. ♪ i remember when you were here ♪ that's mommy! ♪ and all the fun we had last year ♪ watch the full story at www.xfinity.com/sing2 it has been a week. it has been a whole week. whew. that's going to do it for us for now. see you again on monday. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. remember that supreme court argument that seems like a week ago, it was of course in the middle of the week. >> wednesday. >> one thing i was struck by at

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