bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. host of msnbc's "politics nation" and part of the action network, reverend al sharpton joins us. a lot of questions pertaining to congress this morning. >> i'm going through the "washington post." cooler it gets, more distracted people get. >> okay. >> mississippi, i don't see anything in here about mississippi, elise jordan. big day. >> they're missing out on covering mississippi drama, mississippi. we deserve full coverage as this supreme court case is center stage. >> what do you think? >> i don't really have that much faith that mississippi has terrific counsel that is going to be able to make the case, frankly, if i'm going to give my brutal -- >> to get the court off of -- >> to overturn roe versus wade. i'm not -- i don't have that much confidence. >> in the mississippi lawyers? >> yes. >> i'll say also, the hill is so steep. you look, and i know people don't like to think that the supreme court looks at opinion, public opinion, but you have, like, seven out of ten americans saying they do not want roe overturned. i looked at my hair. what did i do this morning? >> you look okay. >> that's tough. >> you can't get it down. people go, what do you put in your hair? do you know what i put in my hair? >> oh, my god. please stop. don't make it worse. >> it does nothing. >> don't touch it. >> can somebody spray that? >> it's like the old spillbird thing, goes wherever it wants. mika -- >> this is why he travels alone. >> yup. >> my point is this, in between the hair comments, is 70% of americans support roe v. wade. the precedent of next year, half century precedent. you look at this poll from abc news, and it's, again, pretty overwhelming. that one says 60% uphold, 27% overturn. everything i've seen over the years, overturning is one-third americans are there. i don't see the roberts court move away from the viability test. that's a pretty radical jump. i think they'll slowly but surely evolve in that direction, but right now, what do you think, jonathan? >> yeah, the roberts court tends to avoid the radical jumps. i think the three new justices appointed by former president trump, kavanaugh, amy coney barrett, and gorsuch, will be people listening today to oral arguments, which are not televised, but at 10:00 a.m., we can hear them talk for an hour or more about this. i mean, it'd be a radical departure. certainly, this has been the hope of a lot of conservatives, a lot on the right, for a long time, to bring a case like this to could potentially challenge and overturn roe v. wade. they feel better, those on the right, about this one than they have about other options. this is a much more sweeping decision than what we saw recently about the texas law. >> right. >> i do think public polling is, as much as they like to not say it matters, it is, at times, factored in. this would be a gigantic change for the nation, were this to happen. >> the question is, does this court really want to be the court that overturns the 50-year precedent that only 27% of americans support? i mean, again, while they look at the law and they follow the law, they also understand that they're in a constitutional republic. rev, again, you've got kavanaugh, who has gone along for the most part with chief justice roberts. i'm not sure what gorsuch is going to do because nobody is ever sure what gorsuch is going to do. but i do think it would be a dramatic, dramatic leap, that i just don't think the roberts court is going to be willing to take. >> the concern is that this is the best opportunity they've had to overturn it. the clarence thomas wing of the court, if there was such a wing. >> right. >> but i don't think that there's any indication that roberts -- and i think you're right about kavanaugh -- would go that way. the concern i have is two-fold. one, the people that would be most impacted by it are going to seek abortions anyway, which increases dangers, particularly among disadvantaged communities and communities of color. and, secondly, those moralists that can't divide personal views, religious or whatever we may have, from how you govern andgiving people the right to choose where they want to go in life. and the people that are more life until the child is born. they're pro life until the kid is born, then they're against any kind of support for the same children. >> yesterday, and we'll be getting into it a little later, you had a senator from connecticut give a very stirring speech, willie, about the culture of life. and the very people that are running around self-righteously beating their chests, talking about supporting pro-life issues are the very people who, of course, won't do what 90% of americans want and get universal background checks. won't make it harder for people who are mentally unfit to have weapons, dangerous weapons, to have weapons and go shoot up schools and synagogues and churches and country music coin concerts. they're beholden to special interests in washington, d.c., and not beholden to life. really, anybody i hear talking about being pro-life again in the age of covid, where they are deliberately lying, like dr. ronny jackson, deliberately lying to their people and putting constituents' lives in danger. this is not a pro-life party. it is not even close. people like marjorie taylor greene, all they want, nobody believes it. nobody is listening. they're talking to themselves because we've seen how little they value life. because they will lie to their own constituents about taking care of their families. >> well, there are many conservatives, you know, joe, who are principally objected to abortion, and today is a day that has been circled on the calendar. this is december 1st. this is as close as many conservatives believe they've come. this is the rational we heard from many people. why did you vote for donald trump? judges, supreme court justices, we can change the laws of this land if we get donald trump into office. well, he got gorsuch, then kavanaugh, and then justice comey barrett, as well. three supreme court seats filled by donald trump. today is a day that many people were looking to. they have the chance to overturn roe versus wade. remains to be seen what the court does today, but donald trump and the votes cast for him put conservatives in a position to have a shot at it today. >> yeah. mika, a lot of republican or republican violence over the past day or two on twitter, it makes me sad. get into it. tell us what happened. >> yeah. we'll get more on what chris murphy said, as well, on the floor. first, a lot going on in washington. let's turn to minority leader kevin mccarthy, unable to control the extreme members of his party. it stems from the most recent islamaphobic remarks from republican congresswoman lauren boebert, which have sparked a bitter battle within the republican party that spilled over onto social media yesterday. it was ugly. it started after extremist marjorie taylor greene tweeted, calling fellow republican congresswoman nancy mace trash for condemning boebert's bigoted remarks of omar. mace responded with colorful terms. these are sitting members of congress. from greene, just had a great conversation with president trump about nay si mace. i love president trump. he is our leader. >> how sad. how weak. >> to that, mace responded, quote, don't look now, but it is mtg unable to take the heat, running to the principal's office to tattle tale because she can't stand on her own two feet. bless her heart. this goes on. the bigger issue, willie, is controlling this unspeakable and, in some ways, disgusting behavior from erupting out into the public's fear. >> yeah. >> are you going to tolerate this or not, right, joe? are you going to tolerate islamophobia? are you going to tolerate calling a member of congres a member of a jihad squad because she is muslim? minority leader mccarthy apparently tried but failed to end the feud, at least, between mace and greene. after the meeting, greene suggested to cnn she wants mace to be primaried. hmm. when asked about that, mace told reporters, quote, all i can say about marjorie taylor greene is bless her effing heart. "new york times" summed it up this way, the carnival like behavior would amount to a sideshow if it didn't have real-term implications for campaigns and possibly a fractured republican majority in 2023. party leaders again chose to remain memorandum as their back bench was brawled and democrats took full advantage of the spectacle, joe. >> here's the problem with steve, donald trump's favorite majority leader steve, remember he miscalled him that? >> kevin. >> didn't know his name. >> that's what donald called him, steve instead of kevin. personal friend of mine, bruce springstein. anyway, kevin thinks he can control this, and he keeps thinking he can negotiate with somebody like the congresswoman from north georgia. you cannot negotiate with them. you need to go to the rest of the caucus and say, hey, if this is what you want, if this is what you want the face of the republican party to be going into in 2022, donors, if this is -- go ahead and take it because i'm not going to do it. this is the problem with kev, he is so desperate, he doesn't realize that, at some point, you have to tell people where to go. you follow me, and i will take you to the promise land. you don't follow me -- >> he looks so weak. >> so weak! >> just letting a nutbag just kind of call the shots, and the distraction of this, you know, little back and forth which, you know, i can't kind of help but to cheer on nancy mace. at the same time, i wish they were just reading some bills maybe and doing boring stuff that congress is supposed to do, instead of this dumb public spat. >> right. >> because we do have an islamaphobic representative who wants to just get twitter mentions and, you know, go for the shiny object. >> right. and this started when mace actually criticized a member of congress for her fascist comments about a muslim representative. hateful fascist comments, she called it out, so she gets attacked by marjorie taylor greene. and then greene is attacking her for saying she's pro-abort. again, a woman spreading conspiracy theories that probably led to the death of some of her constituents. it's all on her. she's talking about being this pro-life candidate. what she doesn't mention is that congresswoman mace was raped in high school, dropped out of high school, started drinking, got addicted to drugs, and it was ruining her life. she not only pulled herself out of that tailspin, but she was the first woman to go to the citadel. >> a school, by the way, i had friends that have gone to that make them break down and weep, just bitter, bitter agony. it is an extraordinary journey for this woman. i just think that congresswoman from the carpet capital of the world may have picked on the wrong citadel -- >> what kind of nasty human being brings up experiences like that as political warfare? >> we heard her attack boebert for apologizing for islamaphobic remarks. there is no bottom for marjorie taylor greene. there is no bottom. it is representative of a growing wing of republicans, particularly in the house, the back bench in the house, and it represents a danger for the gop. >> can i just stop you? >> yeah. >> this is not a little bit of a danger. >> significant. >> this is the very thing that people in the suburbs of atlanta, people in the suburbs of philly, suburbs of phoenix, maricopa county, they're like, hey, i like their tax policy. i'd like to pay less taxes. i'd like the small business to have less regulations. i'd like to cops to have a little more power. i like all that stuff. but i can't vote for a fascist. i can't go into crazy town. i'm going to vote for the democrat. >> gop is widely expected to take the house back next year. >> right. >> but it is this, something like this that could endanger that. it shows it is going to turn off those uburban voters. it also shows the republican party's inability to sort of funnel people together behind more acceptable, broadly palatable, general election candidates. they're too often willing to cave behind those on the fringes, often supported by former president trump, who can sail through in a deep red district, a primary, but those perhaps statewide in the senate, but even more in a swing district in the house might have real trouble if the democrats can put up a good candidate against him or to. mccarthy, to your point, is showing no signs of trying to get that under control. he is too concerned about following donald trump's marching orders. >> the mistakes kevin is making, mika, is if he continues this and allows the craziest people in his caucus to define his caucus, well, there are going to be narrow margins and he will have to go to the crazies and get them to support him. the thing is, if he is more of a main street republican, if he is more of a republican the way republicans were 10, 15 years ago, you talk about economics mainly, you talk about the things that actually matter to small business owners and matter to farmers and matter to, you know, republican party's natural constituents, 2022 is probably going to be a blowout. >> yeah. >> republicans will have a comfortable lead. and you can tell the craziest people in the caucus, hey, go pound sand. if you don't shut up, i'm going to strip you of your committee assignments. that's how this works. kevin is playing scared. when you play scared, nothing good happens. >> well, and, i mean, i know it is not lost on all of us here on the show this morning that it is not just a danger to the republican party. what's happening now, these comments we're talking about, are a danger to members of congress and to muslim americans. i mean, it's unspeakable, that these have gone unchecked. yet, minority leader mccarthy has yet to publicly condemn lauren boebert's islamaphobic remarks that sparked this all. even as another video surfaces of her implying ilhan omar was a terrorist. the latest video was from an event in september. watch. >> one of my staffers on his first day with me got into an elevator in the capitol, and in that elevator we were joined by ilhan omar. >> oh, my gosh. >> well, it was just us three in there, and i looked over and i said, "well, lookey there, it's the jihad squad." [ laughter ] >> i do have to say, she didn't have a backpack, so we're good. >> it was the same bigoted event -- remark she made at another event. she apologized to anyone in the muslim community she offended but did not apologize to omar directly. it is clear she is making this a road show. this is not just a one-off. a mistake. the two spoke by phone on monday, but both congresswomen admit the conversation did not end well, with boebert demanding an apology from omar. meanwhile, at a news conference last night, congresswoman omar played a death threat she received by voicemail. this is what we're all talking about, after the call with boebert. the remarks you are about to hear are offensive and graphic, but this is what happened. >> we see you muslim sand [ bleep ]. we know what you're up to. you're all about taking over the country. don't worry, there is plenty that would love the opportunity to take you off the face of this [ bleep ] earth. come get it, [ bleep ], you [ bleep ] muslim jihadist. >> the message said she would, quote, not live much longer. congresswoman omar has once again called on house republican leadership to hold boebert and anyone else who perpetuates islamophobia -- i have no words. >> that's why i'm here. >> say it. >> you said we're watching. i was just going to say, you actually do have words on this because you know about this. not whining about it. it just is what it is. words have consequences. when the president of the united states accuses me of being a murderer 12 times, guess what? we started showing up on kill lists. had to get security around our house 24 hours a day. you know, that's not fun. >> yeah. >> why did it happen? we had neighbors going, oh, your security. i go, yeah, you know the guy, you know the flag you have hanging up at your house? yeah -- >> on the flyers people were putting out. >> he's the reason i have to go, hey, how you doing? you don't like it. i don't like it. none of us like it. but words have consequences. it's been a pain in the ass. not only for me but for my children, for you, for your family. >> more than that. >> for our family. for everybody in the neighborhood. why? because of words. because there seems -- you know, again, maybe it's the age of twitter, people think they can say whatever they want to say, and everything will be fine. but there are some people that don't have guardrails. so you say this crazy stuff about people in the media or people in politics, and there's going to be some wingnut that is getting messages through his fillings, and the signal is coming from, you know, his tinfoil hat and the paper clips that he hangs over all the doorways, and, suddenly, they're going to get that message from donald trump. right? or they're going to get their message from one of these congresswomen. people get killed. there's a consequence to these words. kevin, there's a consequence. you don't want this happening. all right? republicans should know the consequences of hate talk. they should know the consequences of hate speech. they've got steve scalise who got shot up while playing baseball, right? >> kevin knows better. >> kevin knows better. steve knows better. i haven't heard if steve called this out, but, certainly, steve should call this out. because steve has seen what hate speech and all this talk, what it leads to. come on, let's -- we can debate about socialism versus libertarianism, everything in between. but let's just stop this nonsense. it's the short game. it gets nobody anything in the long run, but it might just get somebody killed. rev, what we're hearing is just -- you actually had somebody who said deeply offensive, fascist, anti-muslim remarks which, of course, these women have been dealing with since donald trump was giving rallies several summers ago, saying "go home," right? she even thought about apologizing and got slammed by marjorie taylor greene for even thinking about apologizing. >> no. you know, i watched you and mika go through the threats because of donald trump. and i've gone through threats. i was stabbed once leading a march. and what got me to have the courage to do what kevin mccarthy seems not to do, and that is start standing up to the fringe on my side of the spectrum, is that the guy that stabbed me, mrs. king talked to me, martin luther king's widow. i visited him in jail, and it was a hard thing to do. i forgave him. he said to me, looking me in the eyes, he said, "i felt bad how i almost took your daughters and father." he said, "you don't understand, reverend. i would have been a hero if i hurt or killed you." when i came back out, i talked to my ministerial friends. they said, "you can't be the same on the other side to him, playing to the hero side of a few fringe people." which is why i started unequivocally saying -- and you and i had these conversations -- rather than trying to mince words or be silent, just unequivocally saying, "no, that's too far. that hurts our movement. that's not what we're about. i denounce that." kevin needs to ask himself, not only what kind of speaker he wants to be, what kind of leader, what kind of man he wants to be. because if you can't stand up against what is wrong, you don't deserve to be a leader, and you don't deserve to be in leadership. it may not be popular, but it defines who you are. >> i'm sure you caught a lot of grief. >> absolutely. >> you said a lot of things that enraged people and, you know, people thought you were anti-semitic. your language was very hurtful to a lot of communities. as you move forward and you talk about mrs. king sitting down, her sitting you down and saying, "rev, we got to talk," people like kevin can see that, you know, as you move forward, any time there is an attack on a synagogue, "poll fitics nation" the first there. you're talking about it nonstop. you have the head of, you know, every group against anti-semitism. that continues. then we saw brunswick. what were you doing? you were making sure that everybody took brunswick as a unifying moment to say, hey, this isn't about black people. this isn't about what -- this is about white and black people doing remarkable things together. this is what america is about. we're moving forward. let the word go forth, you said. >> let the word go forth. 11 southern whites voted in a jury decision, what we march for people to do in this country, which is look beyond race and do what is right. we're mad about that? all of a sudden, it is meaningless. if they voted not guilty, we would have made it meaningful. but it's meaningless when we win, trying to bring people together, that's hogwash. we've got to be able to stand up and say that. >> yeah, great things happen. willie, it really is. you look at everything that's going on right now in the republican party, and you're just waiting for adults, any adults, some adult, just to stand up and say, "hey, enough is enough. enough of the meetings." say, "we're against fascism. we're against anti-muslim fascism, just like we're against anti-semitic fascism." >> yeah, and these shouldn't be close calls. this is the easy stuff in politics. someone says the stuff we've been hearing, and we lay it out. if you're the leader of the party, that's an easy thing to say, "knock it off." we're not talking about policy disputes. if you disagree with congresswoman omar on policy, her view on israel, other questions, that's the debate. what we're seeing now is something else. it is a game. mika is right, it is a game to a lot of these people. the problem is, they have a lot of people cheering them as they play the game. we saw it in the video with lauren boebert, the crowd laughing, cheering, clapping when she said what she said. we're going to come back to this. we want to turn to terrible and tragic news out of michigan. three students were killed and eight others were seriously a s school yesterday. 45 miles north of detroit, officers responded to a flood of 911 calls around 1:00 in the afternoon. the under sheriff says they arrested a 15-year-old student. the oakland county sheriff says the alleged shooter used a semiautomatic handgun that the teenager's father bought less than a week ago. 14 and 17-year-old girls and a 16-year-old boy were the victims. three other students are said to be in critical condition this morning. a teacher was shot as well. joining us from outside the school in oxford cowan ship, michigan, nbc news correspondent jay gray. what is the latest this morning? >> reporter: willie, joe, mika, good morning. we are in the middle of a parking lot here at oxford high school. it's filled with cars. haunting when you consider none of them should be here at this point, left as so many students and teachers fled this situation here. the school still locked down right now. this is still a very active and ongoing investigation here. there won't be any school in the entire district for at least a week, but parents and some of the students here say it is going to be tough to come back at all. >> can't say it won't happen. this can happen anywhere. so, yeah, i'm not sending my kid back to no school. he can't even sit down and get a lesson to know that i'm going to get a phone call saying my child has been shot, it's a shooting. no, that's devastating. it's crazy. >> i know these kids, they're hurting. they're sad. their parents don't know what to do. but it is going to be okay. god will heal everybody. >> reporter: hundreds in the town turned out for a memorial last night. this is the only high school in this small town. that means most everyone here either knows or knows of someone who was either lost or injured during the attack. there is an emergency response team on the ground at this point with counselors available to students, to teachers, to parents, to faculty and staff, anyone really in this community who is going to need some help. >> unfortunately, the scene is all too familiar. again, a 16-year-old, 14-year-old, a 17-year-old are dead, and three others in critical condition this morning. nbc's jay gray, oxford township, michigan. jay, thank you so much. mika? we mentioned earlier the comments from democratic senator chris murphy yesterday on the senate floor. take a listen. >> i listened to my republican colleagues come down here one after another today and talk about the sanctity of life. at the very moment that moms and dads in michigan were being told that their kids weren't coming home because they were shot at school due to a country that has accepted gun violence due to republicans' fealty to the gun lobby. do not lecture us about the sanctity, the importance of life. when 100 people every single day are losing their lives to guns. when kids go to school fearful that they won't return home because a classmate will turn a gun on them. when it is within our control whether this happens. you care about life? then get these dangerous, military-style weapons off the streets, out of our schools. you care about life? make sure that criminals don't get guns, by making sure everybody goes through a background check in this country. this only happens in the united states of america. there's no other nation in the high income world in which kids worry about being shot when they go to school. it happens here in america because we choose to let it happen. we're not unlucky. this is purposeful. this is a choice made by the united states senate, to sit on our hands and do nothing while kids die. it doesn't even involve any political risk. the changes we're talking about in order to make our schools safe places, they're supported by the vast majority of americans. republicans and democrats. >> you know, the senator should know, he represents connecticut, the state that endured sandy hook. and since sandy hook, you look at the numbers. they're overwhelming. almost 90% of americans support expansive background checks. universal background checks. background checks that will go as far as we need to go to make sure that the people who are buying guns are law-abiding citizens. also, tougher registration for military-style weapons. ar-15s. i say registration, tougher background checks. no registration, tougher background checks for ar-15s. making sure that that gun, which has been a weapon of choice for so many mass shootings through the years, is harder to get by people who are ill equipped to handle guns. i'm going to say also, there is a responsibility, and this was in sandy hook, and i'm not exactly sure. you grew up in a gun culture like me. mika grew up, they always had several fw guns in their house. same with me. but i'll tell you what, my kids can't get to them. they could try all they wanted to. they could never get to them. i think so much a part of this comes down to basic gun safety. if the nra hadn't stopped, like, doing their job on preaching gun safety like they did in the '50s '60s, and became a lobbying outfit in d.c. when gun owners across america are getting as rich as they can, scaling millions of dollars off the top, maybe they'd be concerned. maybe they would be teaching people. maybe congress would even pass a law saying, okay, you have a gun in the house, fine. secure it. keep it from your kid. keep it in a safe place. keep it locked. you and i know this. i know a lot of people watching don't know this. you go into people's house at thanksgiving, they have shotguns and they're up against the wall. guess what? they're in a locked case. ain't nobody getting to them except the person that, you know, knows how to get into it. >> well, the nra just by being so extremist, and by their unwillingness to concede anything which has always been the strategy, we need some common sense reform. it is the same thing we've been talking about for years. no high volume magazines. we need basic background checks. why is there person-to-person transfer in so many states? it is insane that someone can buy an ar-15 without having any background check. that is true in many states around the country. >> yeah. i mean, of course, this wasn't an ar-15. we're just talking in general. >> yes. >> about gun laws. my god, rev, i can tell you, in pensacola several years ago, when we had -- pensacola hadn't had this problem in a while, but, you know, started having gang violence starting to spread across parts of the city. law enforcement i'd call and say, "what the hell is going on?" they said, "guns all over the place." we were already a gun culture in the south. people would go to the parking lot and open the trunk, and opens wander up and buy it. person to person, no background check. we can do a better job. we can respect second amendment rights and, at the same time, we can keep our kids safe in school. it is a false choice to say we can't have universal background checks and a strong second amendment. >> no, it is certainly a false choice. and it has nothing to do with the second amendment. it has, again, to do with demagogues playing to what they consider to be popular to fringe people. it is interesting to me, the hypocrisy. you don't want background checks on people carrying weapons that could kill people, but you want all kind of voter id for people to vote. >> right. >> i mean, it doesn't make sense. you need all of this identification to vote, but you don't need identification to buy an ar-15? i mean, give me a break. i think we really need to get serious here. and the normalizing of what we saw yesterday in the school in michigan is what's concerning, because it's almost not even a top story anymore. >> right. >> when we see the shootings. in many communities -- i preached a 1-year-old kid's funeral because he was hit by a stray bullet. i'm telling kids in our communities, you are complaining you can't find a job, but you can find a gun and hurt other people? all of us, everywhere, has got to condemn this kind of debauchery that we are submitted to. >> and you look at the hypocrisy. again, you go back to the hypocrisy. people claiming to be the pro-life party are the same people that are for no gun safety, against any gun safety whatsoever, against universal background checks to protect our children, protect the mentally unfit who might commit suicide, use an available gun to commit suicide, that, you know, will go shoot up schools. then you talk about covid. the very people lying to their constituents about how to stay safe, they know better. the doctors know better. then they lie. i don't understand, just the hypocrisy. we can talk about being for the death penalty. fry them all. fry them all. i mean, again, how does this party call itself the pro-life party? >> discussions about the supreme court earlier, and the nra has been neutered because of the scandals, but there is no political will on capitol hill to do anything about guns. the biden administration passed executive orders here or there, but those are all on the margins. despite speeches like from senator murphy, there doesn't seem to be a groundswell or an effort to have more sensible discussions. you talked about new york, the possibility to expand the ability for people to carry guns in cities like this one. >> it is a terrible, terrible situation we're facing, that they may allow gun carrying openly in new york city. in a time that we've seen almost daily shootings. homicides going up. they had been going down for many years. the incoming mayor, who i know very well, eric adams, may inherit a city where people can openly carry guns because of this supreme court. we ought to be going the other direction rather than heading this direction, but this is very real and very possible in new york. >> well, willie, again, the question that i've had since newtown is, who could be against universal checks? who in good faith could be against universal background checks? nine out of ten americans support that. republicans support it. the majority of nra members support it. the majority of every idealogical group supports universal background checks. why not do that? why not require gun safety, more rigorous gun safety at home, so 15-year-old kids can't get hold of guns, 17-year-old kids can't get ahold of ar-15s and go to kenosha. so our children understand that they can't do that. and the parents or others understand, if you don't lock your gun up and if somebody does, you're going to be responsible. there has to be a way, again, to enact gun safety laws that protect our children and protect our families. >> well, we don't know all the details yet, but it appears to be exactly what you described in this terrible case in michigan. you had a 15-year-old high school sophomore who took a gun that was purchased by his father on black friday, so just a few days ago, the sheriff says. he was loading -- the kid was loading the gun, again, when the deputies got there. thank god, they stepped between him and a loaded weapon, got the weapon away from him. they said he was about to shoot seven more people. he had three magazines with him, they believe. that's a difficult case, if the father bought it legally on black friday, it's on him to lock it up. we still don't know exactly what happened. to rev's point a few minutes ago, as long as we're talk about guns and handguns, chicago yesterday crossed 1,000 homicides for the year with a month left to go. that's the most homicides -- excuse me, cook county, encompassing chicago. it is the biggest number since 1994. they still have a month left to go as they count the numbers there. the vast majority of those are gun deaths. so there is a sickness in america, no question about it, mika. >> there really is. when you think about the -- between social media and school shootings and covid, i'm looking at a video of kids in the classroom in oxford who are trying to keep the door closed because the shooter might come in. they climb out the window methodically. they're practically in order about it because they're used to this concept. the anxiety that our children, that this generation is growing up with, is incomprehensible. republicans, they kind of own it. i don't know what else they want to own at this point. this entire 40-minute block of television has been about the danger the republican party is putting on the american public. and they will do nothing at this point. they will say nothing. it's got to stop. still ahead on "morning joe," amid new concerns about the latest strain of covid-19, one vaccine maker has this message. don't freak out. we'll talk to the u.s. surgeon general about omicron and what the biden administration is doing to prepare for its arrival in the u.s. plus, donald trump's former chief of staff mark meadows is set to appear before the house select committee investigating the january 6th capitol attack. we'll talk to congressman adam schiff about what his cooperation could mean for that probe. and as we head into the holiday season, supply-chain bottlenecks are showing signs of easing. steve rattner joins us next with charts on that. wake up the kids for the charts. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. this is the new world of work. each day looks different than the last. but whatever work becomes... the servicenow platform will make it just, flow. whether it's finding ways to help you serve your customers, orchestrating a safe return to the office... wait. an office? 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>> i wish we knew. we're looking at it very carefully. >> reporter: as the omicron variant spreads, the world health organization is advising people 60 and older, and those with comorbidities like heart disease and cancer, to postpone travel. the white house covid response team says there are at least 226 confirmed cases across 20 countries. >> one thing has become clear over the last 20 months. we cannot predict the future, but we can be prepared for it. >> reporter: the cdc is expanding its surveillance to four of the busiest airports in the country. new york's jfk, newark, atlanta, and san francisco, with increased testing for specific international arrivals. this illustration shows the omicron variant compared to the delta strain. notice how many more mutations it has. turns out, it was on the move earlier than we thought. the first known cases reported in botswana on november 11th. officials in the netherlands also say the strain was apparently already in the country at least a week earlier than previously believed. still, u.s. officials say it could be two weeks before we have more solid information. as americans prepare for the holidays. >> i would not change any plans, but that doesn't mean you should be cavalier about it. >> reporter: stocks tumbled again. the dow dropping more than 650 points. >> the recent rise in covid-19 cases and the emergence of the omicron variant pose downside risks to the employment and economic activity and increased uncertainty for inflation. >> reporter: concerns are growing about the effectiveness of therapies and vaccines against the variant. regeneron says its monoclonal antibody treatment may not work as well on omicron as it does on other strains. >> we started with potent antibodies. we have to look at how much the hit is. more importantly, we have to get ready for the next one. >> reporter: moderna's ceo warns he expects a material drop in existing vaccines' protection against omicron. pfizer applied for the first emergency use authorization of covid boosters for 16 and 17-year-olds. there's no timeline on when the fda could act. >> let's bring in white house reporter for the "associated press," darlene superville. tomorrow, president biden is expected to announce an enhanced winter covid strategy. darlene, what can we expect to hear from the president? >> thank you. that's right. so the president said, as a matter of fact, yesterday, when he was in minnesota on a trip, that he's going to be giving this speech tomorrow to outline a winter strategy for defeating covid. he said it would not include more lockdowns or more shutdowns, but that it would be more about increased vaccinations, encouraging people who aren't vaccinated to get their vaccinations. people who have only had one shot to go ahead and get their second shot. encouraging people to get their booster shots. and that it would have the -- the strategy would have more to do with increased testing to find cases and possibly detect the omicron variant, if it is already here in the united states. >> and your colleague, zeke miller, has new reporting that the white house really looks at covid-19 as the driver of all issues with inflation. businesses struggling to hire. the president's sinking poll numbers. is this going to, do you think, be enough of an explanation for the economy as it carries on this way? how big an issue can omicron moving forward and the fear of the virus be the driver solely of what's happening with the economy? >> well, it can certainly be a big factor, as we already saw with the initial outbreak of the pandemic and then with the surge of the delta variant. but there are always other factors that come into play when the economy isn't doing well. but covid is only just one part of that. but when things aren't going well for any white house, every president looks for a scapegoat, someone to point the finger at. in this situation, in this instance right now, covid is affecting so much of what the president wants to do that it is very easy to point the finger at covid-19. >> white house reporter for the ap, darlene superville, thank you very much. joe, a lot of issues and questions around omicron as we head into the holidays, which could complicate things. >> it could. you know, the thing is, everybody is going, it may be worse than ever. >> right. >> it may not work on this. let's just wait and see. nobody knows. there are 226 cases worldwide? everybody is saying, it may be -- maybe. we don't know. just relax. we may not be able to drink water when omicron comes. i think we will. >> everyone knows that's not water. [ laughter ] okay. >> it burns a little going down. seriously, i just, you know, we have it to cover it. i understand we have to cover it. the speculation is crazy. prepare for the worst, hope for the best. and if you're at home, keep calm and carry on. unless you're a yankees fan, willie. unless you are a yankees fan. one of the reasons i like being here is, of course, i got the "new york post." i got your daily news. shocking news in the "new york post." how? how do you justify this? >> oh, gary is back. >> gary is back! the laziest, without a doubt. i don't know gary or his parents. i'm sure they're fine, good people. >> nice guy. >> he's probably a wonderful guy. the laziest catcher i have ever seen in the history of baseball. there is a new york met rounding third base. he's running, and gary is staring at him. he's just like this. can you come up? he's just like this. he sees him running, and instead of getting down and, you know, blocking the plate, gary goes like this. he slides under the tag. let me tell you something. >> yup. >> you know, jonathan, you and i, we coached some baseball before. >> we have. >> if anybody on jack scarborough's team would have done that, i would have put them on waivers. go up to your mommy and daddy and tell them you'll go home for a couple weeks to think about that. block the plate and get down. willie, this guy, true or false, laziest catcher in the history of major league baseball. >> well, he doesn't love reaching for a ball that's not in the strike zone, if that's what you mean, joe. [ laughter ] he's a bit of a stabber, i'll give you that. he kind of stabs at the ball. sometimes that rolls to the backstop, giving the runner a base or two on some occasions. he's shown over the last few years flashes of brilliance at the plate. not a full season of brilliance, typically. >> yeah. >> he got a one-year offer from the yankees. he's been, like, on these, like, probationary status seasons for the last couple years. do we bring him back, not bring him back? gary will be back, but we do have some good backups, just in case. >> well, the good news for the yankees is he doesn't play hurt. he refuses to play hurt. so that means he is on the bench more. all right. gary sanchez coming back to your new york yankees. >> it says "embattled catcher" right there. >> that's our big signing, joe, in this time wher max scherzer is getting $40 million. we're bringing back gary sanchez. >> i'm sorry, what are the sox doing? >> let me check the -- yeah, no. >> at the trade deadline, they got pensacola's barnhill buffet all you can eat coupons, handing them out to the players. >> so far, they cornered the market on six or seven starters. paxton won't pitch again until august, coming off tommy john surgery. no one who is going to help us in the moment. >> e.r.a. was below 6.00. >> it's true. >> for those of you who don't follow baseball, that's about as good as having a catcher who refuses to bend over to tag somebody about to score. against your cross-town rival. former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, the legendary steve rattner. mom and dad, wake up the kids. steve has charts. >> i guess we're making the turn from sports to business? >> isn't it the same thing? ha-ha-ha. >> sports is more interesting. >> that was good. >> let's talk about the supply chain. >> yes, the supply chain. >> i piece by whittaker couple week ago was extraordinary. i don't know. the can-do guy in me, i can't figure out why they can't get this fixed. i hear they're making some improvements. what's going on, steve? explain to the great unwashed people like me what's going on. >> i'm going to try to do that, joe. first of all, people are buying more goods and less service. >> that's good? >> well, it is good for people who sell goods but bad for supply chain. a lot of stuff trying to move through the supply chain. people are trying the to buy a lot of stuff. look, we'll learn about inflation, jobs, things like that. let's take a look at a couple of charts. first, you heard and read probably about the long beach los angeles port. 40% of all our stuff we bring into the country comes through that port. this shows you the number of container ships waiting outside the port. back before october of '20, almost zero. you can see it hit a high of 86 ships floating around in the bay, waiting for -- >> what date was that? >> that was mid-october. >> now it is going way down? >> now it is going way down. it has been cut in half. as we sit here today, there are 43 ships sitting out there. biden said the port would operate 24/7. didn't seem to help that much. the los angeles city council threatened to put in fines if they didn't get the stuff out of there. that helped a bit. >> so do we expect this trendline to continue? >> as recently as a couple days ago, more ships were waiting, good news every day. >> dramatic. >> it is dramatic. >> as the supply chain goes forward, in the "60 minutes" piece we saw, they say, we grot got it off the boat. we don't have the truckers, the railroad supply. how about that? >> i'll address that very question. before i do that, i'll also talk about inflation a little bit. there are costs involved here. look what happened to shipping costs over the course of this pandemic. you can see way back at the beginning, it cost $1,500 to bring a shipping container from china to the west coast. that peaked at $2,000 a container. you're talking about a 15 times increase in the cost to bring a container. >> is this supply and demand or are people just bilking people? a little of both? >> yeah. if you have a shipping contain and can charge $15,000, you'll make a lot more money. that's all feeding into corporate profits. it is starting to turn down. you can see it's gone from $22,000 down to $17,000 at the moment. not great news but better news. if you want to get to your question about what happens after the stuff gets here, take a look at what our situation is with truck drivers. on the left, you can see how many truck drivers there are in the united states. we had about 1.5 million right before the pandemic. then, of course, it fell way off. it's come back, but it is still not back. the number of truck drivers is still not back to where it was in february of 2020. that red dot up at the top, 80,000 truck drivers we're missing. we need another 80,000 truck drivers. >> can i ask a question? >> sure. >> we've been reading stories for years about the poor truck drivers. soon, truck drivers aren't going to be needed because trucks are going to drive themselves. what are these poor truck drivers going to do? there's jobs for the poor truck drivers. where are the poor truck drivers i've been reading about for the past decade, about all their jobs are going away? jobs are here. where are they? >> jobs are here. 80,000 of them are not working. we had a shortage before. but this is the broader point across the whole spectrum of business. i was actually -- had lunch with a guy who owns the brooklyn nets, if you want to go back to sports, and he was talking about the ushers. 15% of them on a given night tend to decide, i don't feel like showing up at barclays arena. people are not fully getting back to work, for whatever set of reasons. we can debate the reasons. >> the truck drivers, though, i understand the ushers, but the truck drivers, i would guess, their livelihoods depend on this. i'm curious why they're deciding not to have these jobs when, again, every story i've read is, you know, about the endangered truck drivers soon going to be vanishing. now, we have more jobs. we have more jobs. >> more jobs. >> people aren't filling them. i know people will be on twitter going, oh, you this, you that, ya-da. maybe they don't want to work. great. i know a lot of people throughout time that haven't wanted to work, but they've had to work. i'm curious, perhaps this is, finally, the dawning of the age of aquarius, and we don't have to work if we don't want to. >> couple pieces. first of all, we have 11 million open jobs in this country, more than ever before. if you don't feel like driving a truck, if you don't want to be away from your family, if you don't like the $23.5, whatever you don't like, there are 11 million other jobs to pick from. it's become a workers' preference, really, what they want to do. that's number one. number two is that we do need to start automating trucks. we are going to start automating trucks. there will be fewer jobs for truck drivers. that's probably a good thing. the third thing is, you say, why do people not want to work? there's $2.3 trillion of extra cash sloshing around in people's bank accounts. i don't want to make this sound cavalier, but we put a lot of stimulus in this economy. people couldn't spend money for a year. all that money is in people's bank accounts. so if they don't feel like working one day, they don't feel like going to the barclays arena, don't feel like driving the truck, they don't have to at this moment. i don't want to make it sound cavalier. there are plenty of people in the country who were hurt by the virus and who are hurting, but there are a lot of people with more money in the bank account than they're used to having, and they have choices of what they want to do. >> it is not cavalier. you have 11 million open jobs, rev. it is a workers' paradise. you want to work? get the job out there. you pick. >> absolutely. i think that the fact that jobs are there is one thing, but i think steve is right. there are options that a lot of people have that they never had before. when you have people that were in one or two areas that now have five or six options, you end up with needing more people to become truck drivers or things that were narrower options in the past. >> right. >> i think that's what we are seeing, the chickens come home to roost. >> elise, you also have the freedom of people to choose, you know, some jobs they want to do and some jobs maybe they don't want to do. but there is that opportunity out there. i guess it is good for the economy. at the same time, the biden administration especially has to recognize that every time somebody sees a help wanted sign, every time somebody sees half of a restaurant shut down because they can't get workers for the entire restaurant, that actually breaks against them. >> well, if you think of a job that if you could get another job and be with your family all week and pass on being a truck driver, it'd be one of them. it is a hard lifestyle. >> right. >> people who drive trucks, they're gone for weeks on end. they're under time pressure to get a certain amount of miles in. and, you know, back in the day, it was a great way to have a good, upper-middle class lifestyle. but, you know, still without a college degree. now, today, with other options, and if the price -- have wages gone up at all with inflation for truck drivers? it's just such a hard career. >> yeah. >> then with the pandemic child care crisis, too, you have one person away, then you're down the child caregiver. >> so that's a problem. steve, thank you for being here. come back tomorrow. i saw you had a chart that i saw talking about how corporate profits are at record highs. >> corporate profit margins are at record highs. it is interesting why. if you want, i will happily do that. >> and how horrible it would be if we actually tax corporations a little bit more to pay for some of the social safety net that's been torn over the past 40 years. what in the world would happen, i ask my dear republican friends. what in the world would happen? record-breaking profit margins for corporations. still -- and, by the way, it is joe manchin that's saying, let's reverse the trump tax cut. for some reason, he can't get democrats to agree with him on that. >> well, you have to not only talk to your republican friends. you have to talk to kyrsten sinema who said she's not in favor of raising taxes on corporations or individuals, and that is a huge problem with the build back better bill. it's just not going to have the right tax stuff in it. >> well, i think we need to tax corporations more and the billionaires more. >> well, that's in there. the billionaires are in there. >> all right. steve rattner, thank you so much for your charts. greatly appreciate it. now, back to our bureau and an undisclosed location. mika? >> actually, washington. >> oh, you're in washington. are you in washington today, dear? >> yes, i am. there is a lot going on here today, which we've been talking about. >> yeah. how is the capital city? >> it's beautiful. i love washington. it is one of my favorite places on earth. but right now -- >> i'm glad you're there then. it is good you're in one of your favorite places on earth. >> thank you. >> i love new york very much too. >> all right. well, you just stay right there. >> i will, sweetie. >> honestly, let's get to the news at five minutes past the top of the hour. we have a lot to talk about, especially pertaining to the attack on the capitol an january 6th. the capitol rioter who used a taser on police officer during the attack is trying to get his confession thrown out of course. rodriguez says the fbi officers used coercive questioning and he wasn't aware of his miranda rights. the judge in the case is likely to rule only the interview conducted before he was mirandaized can't be used. this was at his court hearing yesterday. >> what do you want me to tell you? that i tased him? yes. >> why did you taiz him? >> i don't know. i'm a piece of [ bleep ]. >> trump called us. trump called us to d.c. >> tell me about that. how did he let you guys know to come to d.c.? >> if he's the commander in chief and the leader of our country, and he's calling for help -- i thought he was calling for help. >> what were your thoughts at the capitol when you tasered officer fanone or when you went into the capitol building -- >> i thought that we were going to save this -- i thought that we were going to do something. i thought it was not going to happen like that. i thought that trump was going to stay president, and they were going to find all this crooked stuff. we were going to -- i mean, we found out that -- we thought that we did something good. >> wow. joe, i want to pause right there. we have a lot more to get to. what do you make of what you just heard? >> well, i mean, it is pathetic. some of these people are pathetic. they came to washington, d.c. willie, they came to washington, d.c.. how much times have we heard him? >> they were used. >> they're saying, we're doing a favor for donald trump. donald trump told us to come up here. we were up here because the commander in chief told us. this is what i thought we were supposed to do. these poor, sad, pathetic creatures followed donald trump, then did horrible, horrible things that they have to pay the penalty for. you know, again, the guy who inspired them to do this is living large in mar-a-lago right now. >> that's the thing. donald trump is by the pool at mar-a-lago today, while the people he called to action will be sitting in jail cells, many of them. joe, this gets back to the point you were making earlier about that phone call that congresswoman omar received. there are people out there, even if it is a game to many of these politicians, these leaders, there are many, many people, as january 6th reminded us painfully, who get the signal. they hear something violent, they hear something that pushes them into the capitol. they hear something that calls them to taiz police officers or beat them with american flags. people are listening. your words matter. the things you say, while they may get you fundraising, they may get you attention on certain networks or on social media, there are people in the country who are listening and they will do some of the terrible things that we saw on january 6th if you say it loud enough. >> yeah. richard haass is here, president on the council of foreign relations. you talked about unrest in this country for some time. it is one of the challenges. we're talking about the recklessness of words of republican congress people who are using anti-muslim bigotry, attacking women of color who are in congress, and those words having consequences. death threats starting up. talking about what happened when the president called me a murderer, like, 12, 13 times. all the death threats that start up. we see all of these people who listen to what the former president said about, come to washington, d.c., and you have to tough. all this other stuff. we hear one federal judge after another federal judge, you know, drawing from these people, these sad, pathetic people. you know, that they came to washington, d.c., because they believed they were doing the duty of the commander in chief, who was calling them and telling them to come up and raise hell. >> you have two things going on. one, you have the normalization of behaviors that never should be normalized. the kind of almost legit maization, quote, unquote, of violence. >> right. >> then you have people being inspired, motivated, or incentivized to break the law. a lot of this will come down to legal questions, what was urged? was it close to acts of violence? whether those doing the urging are legally culpable. they are morally culpable. there is something deeply, deeply wrong when we mainstream this kind of rhetoric and this violence. >> yeah. again, it's really important. i can't say this enough. you have the republican party. you have the democratic party. you have the insurrectionist party. we know who is who. but for the sake of the republican party, the mainstream republican party, for their donors, for their activists, the republican party needs to start doing a better job calling out the insurgency party, to explain they are not one. i keep doing it here. you need to do a better job of it on the hill. it's not happening. mitch mcconnell did it on january the 6th and after. they need to continue doing this because, you know, what they've been doing is covering up any investigation into the january 6th hearing. they need to start actively playing a part. >> republicans have totally stonewalled this, with the exceptions of congresswoman cheney and congressman kinzinger, the two on the select committee. the senate scuttled the idea of having a bipartisan investigation into it. it's not just what happened january 6th. law enforcement officials since the day feel like the insurrection was an opening act. the idea of political violence is now far more part of the american culture than it has ever been before. there is great worries because of the dangerous rhetoric, because of what we've seen online and from political figures, that this is going to happen again. maybe not something one single, big event, but smaller events. particularly for 2024, there is going to be increased security concerns because of home-grown extremists, often right-wing groups looking to act out and act violently. they believe that is now part of the american political system. >> that's something, again, republicans have to call out. we've had this debate over whether what we saw was american fascism over the past four, five years. it certainly is when you see the violence attached. that was one thing that was lacking. mussolini in the 1920s would attack government buildings. violence became part of his movement, his organization, his fascism. this sort of violence needs to be called out by my former party, the republican party. not just for the good of the republican party but for the good of the republic, mika. >> again, it is dangerous. joining us now, democratic congressman adam schiff of california. he is the chairman of the house intelligence committee and a member of the select committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol. also with us here in washington is msnbc contributor and best-selling author of the "confidence code" series, katty kay. congressman schiff, first, let's talk about mark meadows, who has agreed to testify. is he fully cooperating with the committee? and i understand he has produced documents. have any of them been productive? >> he is producing documents. i can't speak to the contents yet. in terms of whether he is cooperating, time will tell when he comes in to be deposed. we'll find out whether this is a gambit or whether he is serious about cooperating with the committee. we don't know. i have to say, i'm a bit skeptical, given his track record, but we are going to find out very soon. >> there is a claim, i guess he continues to hold on to executive privilege a little bit. what do you know about his plans to cooperate? i know you can't comment directly on the documents, but do they give you hope that you will get some information as to what led to or what potentially led from the presidential -- from the president's office to the attack on the capitol? >> well, we think he has a lot to offer the committee, but i think at this point, it is still too early to tell whether this is a legal strategy to avoid being held in criminal contempt, or whether we're seeing the road that steve bannon is on. he made a decision to change course. we'll find out when he comes for the deposition. if he tries to assert privilege over things that are not privileged, it is clearly a legal strategy. we don't think there is a claim of privilege here, and we have to decide what to do if he makes -- >> contempt of congress? >> we won't take anything off the table. he, and others, have a moral obligation to come in and testify truthfully and completely. the current president is the holder of the privilege. he is not asserting privilege. and given the democratgravity o we're investigating, volent attack on the capitol, the privilege needs to give way to the public need to know anyway. >> what about jeffrey clark, will he be charged with contempt of congress? what will that look like? >> yes. my expectation is we will vote to hold him in criminal contempt and refer him to the justice department. we will hopefully take it up after we vote in the committee later this week in the house. and it is my hope that the justice department, like with steve bannon, will act promptly. mr. clark showed up, which bannon didn't do, but he showed up and then refused to answer pertinent questions. so the effect was the same as mr. bannon, to simply stonewall the committee. >> katty? >> mr. clark's lawyer is seeming to say there is no validity. is it just stonewalling? >> they're trying to come up with a basis to camouflage what is an effort to stonewall the subpoenas. >> with the aim of dragging it out until the next midterm elections? is that what you're thinking? >> that's what the litigation is for. they realize, i think, their claim is very weak, but they hope, nonetheless, to draw things out until they can delay justice enough that it is denied. but with respect to mr. clark, he was involved, reportedly, in an effort to use the justice department to overturn the election in georgia and perhaps other states, to use the weight of that department to urge georgia to withhold electors and then send a different slate. and also put out false claims of investigations into massive fraud. someone like that needs to be deposed. >> so staying there, the committee spoke with brad raffensperger? >> i don't know that i can comment on who we've deposed thus far, but he certainly has relevant information for our committee. i don't know that i can confirm he has been with us thus far. >> what about other members of the trump circle, like kayleigh mcenany and others who have been sent subpoenas. have they responded? will they be testifying? >> each person that we have subpoenaed responds in different ways. some are coming in and cooperating. others are refusing to come in at all. some are somewhere in between. i can't, until the committee authorizes me, disclose who is in what position. >> but you are getting refusals? >> we are getting refusals, and it is very likely that clark will not be the last that we need to refer for criminal contempt. >> willie? >> well, yeah, congressman, i wanted to ask you, as you look backward at january 6th, what's happening with elections moving forward. the sole republican official on philadelphia's election board is planning to resign next month. al schmidt, an ardent defender of the 22020 election resultsmet and he'll leave in january to go to a watchdog group. schmidt decided not to seek another term after winning re-election in 2019. schmidt said trump's attacks and the threats from his followers did not drive his decision. trump went after schmidt again on tuesday after the "inquirer" reported on schmidt's new job. trump referred to schmidt as a, quote, rhino, in name only, and the departure was great news. schmidt testified before the rules committee about threats made against him and the lives of his three children after the 2020 election. congressman, obviously, you're doing important work to look at january 6th, but 2022 coming up very quickly. obviously, another presidential election not long after that. how concerned are you as you look around the country about the kind of people who are being put in place, or at least endorsed by former president trump, who may, next time, try to work to swing the election in his direction should we run again? >> honestly, it is hard to overstate my alarm at exactly what you describe. it seems the lesson that donald trump and his acolytes learned from the failed attack on the capitol is the way to be successful in overturning the election next time is to go after these independent elections officials who did their jobs. many of them republican. as shameful as the actions of republican members of the house were in trying to overturn the election, you had a lot of courageous republican elections officials around the country at the local and state level do their job. they're now being hounded out of their posts. to me, that is the most direct threat to our democracy, and that is this effort to strip independent election officials of their jobs or duties, hand them over to partisans. it's how a democracy can be used to destroy itself. i think this has to be the primary focus of our efforts to defend our democracy. >> that's the bottom line. chairman of the house intel committee and author of "midnight in washington," congressman adam schiff. thank you very, very much for coming on this morning. joe, i mean, the frustration here is that we have, you know, former members of the administration, people working in the justice department not wanting to comply or claiming executive privilege, when a gang of thugs attacked our democracy, our capitol. committed crimes, hurt people, killed people, maimed people. i mean, this is a very dark time for our country, that simple questions can't be answered for the sake of our democracy. >> you know, it's just not a close call. we've been showing clips of the smash and grabs going on in the west coast. of course, as you know, i get really angry when i see that violence and i don't see people stepping in to actually restore order. makes me really angry when you have d.a.s that are too permissive and allow that to continue, the crime to continue time and time again. because it's usually the truly disadvantaged who are the ones who suffer the most from rising crime rates. yet, these woke das do nothing about it. then you go to washington, d.c., and you see images of thugs beating up police officers, as they go in and trash the people's house. as they go in to what really is the epicenter of western style democracy, not just in america but across the world, and that's not me being, like, an american exceptionalist, although i am. that's what the world sees, as the epicenter of western democracy, of western freedom, of western ideas, of western thought. and we have image after image of thugs going in because they got their feelings hurt, they lost an election. beating the hell out of police officers with flags. going in and spreading excrement across the walls of the united states congress, the hallowed halls of congress. just mass chaos. looks an awful lot like the smash and grabs on the west coast. yet, republicans are covering it up. republicans are apologizing for it. republicans killed a bipartisan investigation into it. they're not cooperating now. come on. come on, what separates you from the punks on the west coast? the punk das on the west coast that won't enforce the law. you're not enforcing the law. you're not getting to the bottom of this on the east coast. at the heart of american democracy, the heart of western democracy, it's just pathetic. speaking of pathetic, mark meadows writes in his book, he admits what we all knew. that donald trump, who was hopped up on something -- i don't know what he took on election night, you know, but -- >> debate night. >> first debate night. but whatever steroids mcguire was shooting in the bathroom, trump said, "give me three of those." he was hopped up on something crazy bad. we find out he had covid. mark meadows knew he had covid. trump knew he had covid. they went into the debate knowing he had tested positive for covid and put everybody in there in danger. i, for the life of me, i didn't understand it on election -- on debate night, i don't understand it now, i have no idea why they allowed that guy to bluster his way in without giving him a test. >> right. so mark meadows, chief of staff, who is obviously in the news right now for his upcoming deposition, writes a book that the "guardian" has an excerpt of. president trump had tested positive for covid prior, several days prior, to that first debate. meaning he attended a couple of rallies, including one in minnesota where we knee he cut it short, seemed under the weather. >> told him not to go, and he did anyway, knowing he had covid. >> apparently, the book reveals that he went to a previous rally a couple days prior and had tested positive before that as well. came back on air force one to speak to reporters. we know at least one member of the press pool on the plane contracted coronavirus around that same time. it certainly seems likely it was from the president of the united states. then he went to the first general election debate against joe biden. there were all these health and safety protocols put in place. testing was done on the honors' system. the trump team blew in late and said, we don't have time to be tested. even though biden and his team was tested. the trump family in the audience didn't wear masks that day, despite being required to do so. the biden family wore masks. trump team didn't. it was only a day or so after the debate when the president then announced that he, indeed, had covid, and had to be air lifted to walter reed. if this chronology is right, and from the former chief of staff so we have no reason to explode -- not believe it, it is irresponsible. >> they're punks who don't care about anybody but themselves. that's always been the case, but this highlights even at the highest level. even on the biggest stage internationally, they're behaving this way. again, i would love to know who was in charge of that debate and why they didn't stop it. i guarantee you, i don't care who you are, how late we are, sit your ass down. we're going to have a test or we're not having a debate. we'll let biden talk for two hours. we don't care. take the test. who didn't give him the test? i mean, it is ridiculous. it is -- >> it taks 10 seconds. >> of course he is not doing the test because he is positive. >> this is the kind of thing we tolerated too much from trump. trump has been able to bluff his way through everything, including -- i mean, can you imagine. we're talking about a president presidential debate. he's made all of these, as we would say, signifying about biden's age, and he is standing up there, covid positive, knowing he is putting biden and everybody in danger, and he's up there taking shots at people. >> yeah. >> they're just letting him do it. we have tolerated too much from trump. now, his own chief of staff is telling on him. when are we going to say to people, enough is enough? we're sitting here letting him dictate what happens to one of the two parties in the county when he would put people at risk in the middle of covid-19. after he told them to start shooting up some bleach. bleach as an alternative to some real scientific -- >> that's the larger point. you're seeing the merger of personal behavior and public policy. this is an administration that acted with disregard to the public health of the society, and then you had the president, if you will, personalizing that in his own behavior. to me, it is totally consistent. >> putting everybody at risk. >> totally. >> amy coney barrett mass superspreader event, put everybody at risk there. and how many people got sick from that? it's crazy, just the recklessness. rahm emanuel said never let a good crisis go to waste. you're here. >> good to see you too, joe. >> let's not let it go to waste. biden and his team have concerns about ukraine. what are the options? let we ask this, what's the most aggressive move we can make to send a message to putin that we're not going to back down like we did in '14, like we did in '08, that we're actually going to respond in kind if they go into ukraine? >> the answer is we're not. >> why not? >> because the military balance and the geography is tilted dramatically in russia's direction. obviously, everybody knows ukraine is not a member of nato. there's things we can do to strengthen ukraine. self-defense. there's sanctions we can threaten. the end of the day, putin is willing to put more chips on the table and has more capability and will. we're not going to offer direct defensive of ukraine. we are not going to war with russia over this. >> what about putting troops in poland? putting forces in poland. doing things in poland, which they'd love for us to do, that would actually embarrass putin, so he knows, if he moves troops into ukraine to flex his muscles, we're going to move troops and more defensive weapons into poland that will actually maybe make it not worth his while. >> that is a serious option. things we can and should do to strengthen nato. whatever putin might gain in ukraine could be strategically offset. that should be on the table. that's exactly the sort of thing we ought to be thinking about. you know, never letting a crisis go to waste, are there things we should have been doing all along with nato? one of the questions, bigger issue if the europeans will go along but -- >> we think the pols will, right? >> no question. but direct defense of ukraine i don't think is in the cards if you're talking about the united states or other european countries, going to bat for ukraine. that's not going to happen. >> again, for vladimir putin, us having troops in poland is just a nightmare. it is an embarrassment. it is a political black eye. we send more troops in, we send more defensive weapons in. they're not confrontational because they're not invaing but he knows. he goes to ukraine, it is not going to be a clean political win for him. >> we have to look at that. also, whether there's understandings we'd reach about things we're not going to do. if you don't want to go to ukraine, are there things we wouldn't do with putting troops in other parts of nato? up against the russian border. part of this is not simply russia's relationship with ukraine, but this is the end of the cold war, the dissolution of the soviet union, and nato enlargement. something on the table for ourselves should be what are we prepared to think about in an assertive and reassurance way? both should be on the table. >> let's go back to first principles. we shouldn't have signed an agreement with ukraine saying you give us nuclear weapons, we'll protect your territorial integrity, if we're not going to do it. you can't make the promises. same with taiwan. i'm sure when taiwan comes up, there are going to be people going, we can't do that. we have to do things. we have to inflict damage on enemies who would continue to spread mayhem across the globe. i know that's not, like, a really politically popular thing. you know what happens when we say, oh, there's nothing we can do, 500,000 people die in syria. that's all we heard day in, oh, there's nothing we can do in sir rah. 10,000 people dead. nothing in syria. 20,000 dead. nothing, 50,000 dead. nothing we can do. 100,000. you know what? i think joe biden and every other president that sits in the oval office, they learn something pretty quickly. we call that job, like, you're the president of the united states. it's not really the case. you're president of the world. you're president of the free world. i know a lot of people love to trash the united states of america, but everybody still looks to us. everybody still depends on us to protect freedom, to protect their interests across the globe. so we can't just keep sitting back. i'm not saying this, like, to you directly, but we can't say, oh, we can't do anything about ukraine. oh, we can't do anything about a taiwan, afghanistan. we have to figure out strategically how we make them pay a price. >> we also have to think through before, if we make commitments, as we did to ukraine, as we've done to a large extent in taiwan, we have to make sure there is capability behind the commitments. the problem with the budapest memorandum with ukraine, when they gave back their nukes, is we made commitments we weren't willing or able to meet. >> yeah. >> that is bad foreign policy. with taiwan, we've got a problem. we have commitments, not quite a formal security commitment, but 90%, and we don't yet have the capabilities that are available to make good on that. >> yeah. >> we have got to close that gap. so as we look around the world, the first order question, what are we prepared to do? then if we are able to do things, if we're willing to do things. the united states gets in real trouble when we allow a gap to open up between what we're able to do is what we are committed to do. that's the dangerous place to be. >> that's important with ukraine. i don't have the answer to taiwan. smart people like you have to figure that out. i will say, with ukraine, talk to the pols. if he goes into ukraine, turn poland into an aircraft carrier. >> biden administration, the rhetoric on russia has been tough, but there has been a reluctance to directly confront, at least on this issue. to this point, putin has backed down, but there are signals perhaps he is not willing to right now. obviously watching this closely. there is no imminent agreement to send anything. richard, since we're doing a tour of the world's hot spots, give us an update on iran, as talks are beginning to potentially restart. where do things stand there? >> not good. vienna talks, the third day. 30 seconds of background. 2015 agreement. iran nuclear, put limits on it. three years later, the trump administration unilaterally exited it. since then, the united states has slapped on all sorts of new sanctions. iran has advanced its nuclear program. we've done from having a year of warning before iran could make nuclear weapons if it wanted to under the agreement, to now several weeks or months. the question is, what do you do now? can you go back in the agreement? i don't think we can agree with the iranians on what the terms would be. they want sanctions relieved up front. we're not going to do it. that'd simply give them all sorts of capacity to cause mayhem in the region. they're not going to agree to a stronger agreement, a longer one. the administration is flirting with the idea, well, maybe we'll give you a little sanctions relief or freeze. the israelis and others think it is crazy. my guess is diplomacy is not going to succeed, and we'll enter a dangerous period. we're going to signal iran, if you do certain things that might be unacceptable, and the israelis are going to signal them. in particular, for the administration, it is a real problem. think about it. big foreign policy goal is to dial down in the middle east. they want to focus on china, focus on domestic stuff. guess what? the world isn't going to let them. iran isn't going to let them. the administration, soon, will have to make a fateful decision. if they allow iran to get nuclear weapons and get really close to them and stay there, why do we think it is going to stop there? what about the saudis? what about it? as bad as the middle east is, it could get a lot worse, real fast. >> i got to go to mika. we have great guests in washington. first, you brought up the saudis. give us an update. haven't talk about mbs lately, saudi arabia. are they still diplomatically backed into a corner? any movement towards making the steps needed for saudi arabia to mainstream themselves again? >> they'd like to. the latest idea is what's called sports washing. the saudis, for example, would have an alternative golf tour that would go there. they want to normalize things and show the rest of the world -- justin bieber giving a concert. they want to signal the world they're in and out of the penalty box. not sure whether the world will cooperate. they have a little oil leverage. obviously, the biden administration wants to see energy prices coming down. they haven't been that much. they've eased a little bit. what is saudi arabia going to do? if we're tapping the strategic petroleum reserve, will saudi arabia cut output to offset that? it'll be an interesting moment to watch. they're having a meeting saudis. it'll either exacerbate the friction between the united states and saudi arabia or it'll reduce it if they increase or reduce oil output. >> i hear mika whispering, joe will get to me soon. >> good morning, mika. what you got? >> it's been a fascinating conversation. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we have a lot more to get to though. still ahead on "morning joe," a prominent christian broadcaster who was anti-vaccine dies weeks after being hospitalized with covid. plus, u.s. surgeon general dr. vivek murthy will be our guest as americans are urged to get booster shots as soon as possible amid concerns of the omicron variant. also, two senators from both sides of the aisle. democrat kirsten gillibrand and republican roger marshall join us to investigate the origins of coronavirus and how we handled it. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ making mama so proud ♪ ♪ your voice is too loud ♪ ♪ ♪ amazing... jerry, you've got to see this. seen it. trust me, after 15 walks ...it gets a little old. 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>> you know, it is all the above. mika, let's start with the origins of covid. i do think it is important, did this come from nature or the laboratory? did it leak from a laboratory? there is a lot to be learned. if a plane crashes, we go to all lengths to find out why it crashed. as a physician, a patient dies, we want to do an autopsy or offer that to the family. we have 700,000 reasons why we need to explore this. more than just the origins, but let's look at our response. we made mistakes. let's look at the mistakes and learn from them. help future generations. the omicron virus variant is just another reason that we need to understand the origins of this virus. >> exactly. as we were talking in the break, senator gillibrand, there's so much we don't know moving forward. so this investigation is looking back but also looking at what is in front of us. >> mm-hmm. and looking at fundamental things, like how do we use the defense production act better? how come we don't have u.s.-based manufacturing on the ready? so the next time we have a pandemic, make sure we can produce the personal protective equipment here in america. make sure we can produce ventilators here in america. our manufacturing base, our made in america base, has to be strong for any type of pandemic in the future. we need to have the stockpiles ready. we need to have the nurses and the doctors and the hospital systems ready. a lot of that we've really not been investing in with a wide eye and a view towards how do we keep our national security strong. >> yup. >> roger and i joined together to look at this holistically, in the same way we looked at the 9/11 attacks holistically. we had a state of the art, non-political, non-partisan group that looked at the terrorist attack from start to finish. what we could have done better to prevent it. what we could have done to make sure another attack doesn't happen. those recommendations have been keeping us safe. we've had dozens of terror attempts in new york city. because there was a joint approach to security with cia, fbi, co-locating and sharing intelligence and keeping new york city safe from terror attempts, it works. we need the same thing. we need the cdc, cia, dod, hhs, and the best minds working to make sure another worldwide pandemic doesn't hit and see us unprepared. >> as leaders. joe, jump in. >> senator marshall, so i wanted you all to come on because of the origins question, which we really have no idea yet. we obviously need to participate. but just hearing kirsten talk about this, it really excites me that you all are looking at this holistically. i'll admit it, as a former republican, as a conservative, as a free marketer, my idea was, okay, yeah, let this go there. let's be as efficient as we can be. let's save money in production, then we can get i back here. then we see in the middle of the pandemic, wait a minute, we're not making enough ventilators in the united states. hold on, we have to depend on china to send us masks. wait, you're telling me, like, 90% of the medication, the pills made are made in china? it is kind of like our chips in taiwan. we have outsourced just basic things we need, not only for our national security but for our health. can you talk to what senator gillibrand was saying, about how we bring some of those abilities pack to our country domestically, so we're never in that position again? >> joe, you make a great point. in march of 2020, i was sitting in southwest kansas volunteering at an icu and er. we had eight icu beds but 1 1 patients. we had nine ventilators, and i had to call the white house myself and say, "please send us more ventilators." so, yeah, we've become very much overdependent on supply chains across the seas. i think there are ways we can incentivize and bring the supply chains back to america. i'm not sure we're ever going to be making exam gloves and gowns in america, but we can bring it to central america, south america, mexico, and we already are. in wichita, kansas, the aerospace industry stopped making airplanes and started making ventilators. there's things we can do to bring the supply chains back to america. >> senator gillibrand, you talked about the need to look at the origins of this. obviously, that's going to involve sensitive conversations with the chinese. are you convinced that the chinese will give you honest answers to what information they had in december, january of 2019 and 2020 about where this came from? >> they may or they may not. but when we were investigating the 9/11 terrorist attack, we had to get sensitive information from saudi arabia, from the saudi government. a lot of the information stayed classified for a very long time. families in new york were entitled to that information. president biden just declassified that information. that took a long time. we don't want to have that same mistake. we need to do the investigative work. when the most recent report was published, our intelligence services determined that it was ambiguous. they could not reach a conclusion on the origins. they did not have access to enough information. but there's a lot of scientific data. senator marshall and i had a hearing, which we had the participation of senator blumenthal and a lot of experts. and on scientific data alone, there is a great deal of publicly available information that needs to be absolutely studied, delved into by experts, that give us a lot of information about where this virus started, how it started, and whether it was from nature or from a lab. we also are learning a great deal based on these variants and how quickly variants are being created about origin. so we need a scientific lack at -- look at the issues which is deep and resourced. we also need to work with allies and adversaries such as china, to work from a scientific perfective. again, this effort is not about finger pointing and it is not about blaming. it is literally about getting to the bottom line. i think you can do that perhaps more collaboratively long term if you're you're looking at it from a scientific lens. i would not say it cannot be done. i believe it can be done. >> another one from joe. >> senator, i was going to ask you, what do we do about china? what do we do about, again, getting a long-term cooperation from china, which is going to be so necessary? we saw china from the very beginning, mat pottinger, a real hero in december of 2019, and they were -- they were trying to get help, government officials trying to get the chinese to cooperate, and they wouldn't send us samples, they stonewahled us. we saw the w.h.o. basically carrying china's water and wouldn't help us out. i guess long term, as senator gillibrand said, we've got to figure out a way to work together to make sure this doesn't happen again. any strategies in that realm, to build some sort of medical partnership with china? >> you know, absolutely. china is a bully. my dad taught me in grade school you have to stand up to china tore a bully, right, but we need an all-world approach as well. we've also called on the world health organization to go back and investigate this and they're starting that process, but i would just reference the dna lab bank. dr. xi shut done the lab bank in september of 2019. ego health should have lab data as well. the nih had lab data they've shut down as well. we have experts in there, we may find the grandfather or cousin of covid-19, i don't know that, but there's economic pressures and sanctions. it's no different than human rights issues, right. we can't look at this in a silo. there's not one solution. we have to figure out how to put pressure where the key points are. we are holding up some nominees right now from the white house that had relationships with china that we think were hiding some of this information as well, and yes matt pattinger did a great job and is a hero. >> senators kristen gillibrand and roger marshal, thank you both for coming together to work on this and coming here this morning. >> thank you. coming up, new york city , once the epicenter of the coronavirus pandemic, has seen a comeback. how is the city preparing for omicron? we'll talk to outgoing mayor bill de blasio about that. "morning joe" is coming right back. real cowboys get customized car insurance with liberty mutual, so we only pay for what we need. -hey tex, -wooo. can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ no one can deliver your mom's homemade short ribs. that's why instacart helps deliver the ingredients. and you add the love. ♪day to night to morning,♪ ♪keep with me in the moment♪ ♪i'd let you had i known it, why don't you say so?♪ ♪didn't even notice,♪ ♪no punches left to roll with♪ ♪you got to keep me focused♪ some people have joint pain, plus have high blood pressure. they may not be able to take just anything for pain. that's why doctors recommend tylenol®. it won't raise blood pressure the way that advil® aleve® or motrin® sometimes can. for trusted relief, trust tylenol®. like pulsing, electric shocks, sharp, stabbing pains, or an intense burning sensation. what is this nightmare? it's how some people describe... shingles. a painful, blistering rash that could interrupt your life for weeks. forget social events and weekend getaways. if you've had chickenpox, the virus that causes shingles is already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. christian broadcast network day star who had been vocally opposed to covid-19 vaccines has died just two weeks after contracting the virus. marcus lamm passed away yesterday morning at the age of 64. lamb and day star have been known to promote anti-vaccination views. they feature skeptics and health care professionals who promote alternative covid-19 treatments. in the shadow of the coronavirus pandemic looms another health crisis, the opioid epidemic. mayor bill de blasio of new york city joins us to talk about how new york is tackling both. the story we touched on this hour, new reporting that donald trump tested positive for covid just days before his debate with joe biden. that's according to a new book by mark meadows who served as trump's fourth and final chief of staff. "morning joe" is back live in just 90 seconds. nds. what the world needs now... is people. people who see flight a little bit differently. so it takes less fuel to bring people together... ...and make faraway places feel a little closer... ...with engines that power planes more efficiently. because seeing a better-connected world isn't far in the future. we're building it... now. ge. building a world that works. mom, hurry! our show's gonna start soon! i promised i wouldn't miss the show and mommy always keeps her promises. oh, no! seriously? hmm! it's not the same if she's not here. oh. -what the. oh my goodness! i don't suppose you can sing, can you? ♪ the snow's comin' down ♪ -mommy? ♪ i'm watching it fall ♪ watch the full story at www.xfinity.com/sing2 ♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." >> look at that, willie. >> we see it. >> nice. >> it's beautiful. >> it's a beauty. >> nice. >> it's going to be lit tonight, joe. >> it is the comcast commerce tree going to be lit tonight. children across new york city, the tri-state area and the world, will feel the -- their heartstrings tugged and pulled straight into the nbc experience store getting mom and dad's credit cards, cryptocurrency, and you can look and see right there, look at all the commerce that's going to be -- it's just beautiful. it's just absolutely beautiful. cryptocurrency will be falling from the sky, rudolph, instead of the red nose. what's it going to be, willie? >> bitcoin. >> bitcoin, yeah. bitcoin. that -- the big tree does get lit tonight, signaling the beginning officially, not really the holidays until the rockefeller tree is lit up and that happens tonight, yes, are there some wonderful items available, "morning joe" merchandise, a "sunday today" mug, it's all waiting for you in the nbc experience. >> experience the joy of christmas. >> so we have alease jordan, reverend sharpton, and i take another sip out of my "morning joe" available at the store, john hemere with us and katty kay in washington with me. we'll start with this, this hour, "the guardian" citing new upcoming -- the new upcoming memoir from trump chief of staff, mark meadows, reporting that donald trump tested positive for covid just three days before his first presidential debate with joe biden in september of 2020. i remember, joe and i, you were watching that debate with me and thinking something was up with him in terms of -- >> i said, he looks like a speed freak. what's that guy on. i think those were my exact words. >> they were and you're not joking. we could tell something was completely off with him. >> yeah. >> mark meadows says that trump returned a negative result from a different test shortly after the positive result. the candidates were supposed to test negative for the virus within 72 hours of the debate, but as meadows' reportedly writes in his book, quote, nothing was going to stop trump from participating. trump didn't announce until three days after the debate that he had covid. the white house said at the time the positive result was announced within an hour of receiving it. the white house had refused to say at the time when trump had received his last negative result. joe, i want to ask you a question. >> yes, ma'am. >> and, you know, i know that there are conversations that can be had about people in the white house who stayed, you know, some people criticized dr. birx for staying in there, but if you look at the position she was in, you know all the different dynamics of it from within maybe you wouldn't be so critical -- >> speed atlas after that. >> right. >> can i just -- >> i take dr. bishgs over that atlas dude any day of the week. is it different when the president of the united states is walking around with a deadly virus that he can spread to everybody around him? isn't that when you break rank, if you know this to be true and say something? >> yes, it is. this suspect isn't like a close call. mark meadows is a guy that made so many bad calls -- >> mark is not the only one who knew about this. can you imagine how many people? >> mark knows because of the book, had lunch with him several times, encouraged him to be a little more conservative fiscally instead of running up massive deficits. he was in charge for the freedom caucus. be for small government, balance budgets, and be responsible. we had that back and forth, me telling him, hey, record deficits. this is how we can bring it down. we had this communication going back and forth about why the republicans needed to be fiscally responsible, and they weren't. so i called him a few times during this period also, mark, dude, like, this guy has got to be responsible. and those -- just everything, of course, as usual, just fell on deaf ears. always the assurances, as mark would always do with the reporters, any reporter that's ever talked to him, hey, i'm the reasonable, rationale guy here, and i'm going to go in and take care of everything, and then he goes in and lets trump do whatever he wants to do. >> everyone is still too scared still to confront donald trump. just, as an aside, we always heard donald trump was such a ger ma phobe. >> right. >> i guess he doesn't care about germs and his behavior is never that of someone who is a ger mow phobe. covid super spreader. >> he doesn't care about giving germs to other people. he doesn't want germs himself. >> he is -- it's just gross. this is really gross at the end of the day. >> i don't know about his behavior, i don't know. >> come on. >> come on. he's leaking to the "new york post." >> murderous. >> it's mud russ. >> you don't know what he did and didn't do. >> i don't believe half the lies donald trump tells about himself. anyway, his behavior aside, he is a germ phobe, but he's a germ phobe about germs coming towards him, not going out. talk about it, talk about you know following this closely, covering the white house, this is a guy who, after he knew he had covid, he kept going to rallies, kept getting on air force 1, talking to reporters on the plane, they kept getting people sick, he went to the debate. he could have gotten biden and everybody else there sick with covid. it's really -- this is an extraordinarily reckless run for what he did. >> i want to know what else knew. >> we showed the footage of him walking out of the white house to be airlifted to walter reed. the fear in the building then, because so many reporters and staffers who felt like we were learning there had been a super spreader event a few days prior. the supreme court party, for lack of a better word, to have trump have tested positive, as i said last hour, for him to have gone to a series of rallies, come back, in close proximity with staffers, with reporters, we know of at least one reporter who got sick after interaction on the back of air force one with the president, and then the debate itself, it can't be overstated how after the president revealed his diagnosis, which, of course, came a few days after the debate, now we know he had at least one positive test prooirts the debate, how freaked out the biden team was by how reckless trump had been going there, not being tested, blowing off the guidelines. his family not wearing masks. i mean, obviously joe biden, in his late 70s, they were doing everything right, in terms of keeping him safe, trying to protect his health, and he was exposed a few feet away from someone on stage who had the virus and was contagious and pure anger. >> you know, i mean, now if i see somebody walking outside and they're wearing a mask, whatever, they can wear a mask if they want to. at the time, though, inside that debate hall, with covid going around the way covid was going around, the trump family not wearing masks, that was just virtue signaling, it wasn't science. it was stupid, stupid, virtue signaling, and reckless virtue signaling with their father on stage, again, with covid, knowing he had covid, spreading it around. >> that's exactly what it was, and in some circles ignorance is a virtue. i'm not going to wear a mask because this signals my freedom or something, and as you say, knowing that president trump had tested positive for covid a little more context, remember he had the big ceremony with amy coney barrett who had been confirmed as the supreme court justice, outdoor ceremony, but packed in the seats, concerns about spreading there, then gets on marine one, according to this book from mark meadows, to go to a rally in pennsylvania, gets a call from the white house doctor, do not let the president leave, he tested positive for covid and effectively the response was, you try to stop him. he gets on air force one, goes to pennsylvania, call to inform him he has covid, and he says that's bad news but i'm going to this rally. it's not surprising that donald trump didn't care about infecting other people but remains outrageous he went and knowing what he knew, and went to the rally and then stood on a stage with joe biden when he knew he had covid. mark meadows says they took a second test that showed president trump was negative. >> whatever. come on. >> he stuck that in the book. >> a popsicle stick that they put on his tongue and said it didn't fall off. >> i mean -- >> come on. >> undermined by the fact that president trump then tested positive an went to the hospital a couple days later. >> and sweat like a pig on stage. i mean, is -- as we say in the south, i don't think pigs sweat, but he was sweating on stage there and it was clearly, clearly in the throes of covid and again, as i said before, willie, hopped up on some steroids that mark maguire and barry bonds and jose canseco could only dream of having in the middle of their season. how reckless. >> and we all know, those of us, you and i, mika, that have known trump, he's a narcissist. he was not going to not have millions of people see him at the debate, rallies or whatever. what i don't understand is what's wrong with everybody that was around him. i mean, mark meadows and the family and others that knew in the white house, no one blew the whistle. i mean it's almost like he was -- he's running a cult. these people drunk the kool-aid. no one was responsible. the doctor that called and said he came up negative, nobody was responsible enough to stop this charade. i've long given up hope on donald trump, but what's wrong wrong with all the people around him? these are the people we expect to tell us the truth about january 6th, when they would sit up and risk their health and the health of everybody in the white house, marine one and all, and these are the people now that are going to give us the real truth about an insurrection? this is amazingly dangerous. >> it is. mika, the great irony is, for donald trump, if he had delayed the debate, so they got covid, let's do this, move this a week or two later, it may have made a big difference. that first debate -- >> you're right. >> was a turning point in the campaign. it was a lot closer than all the polls showed, and if you look back to figure out the one or two things that cost him the presidency, put that debate at the top of the list. >> i think you also brought up a great point in terms of who is in charge of the testing for that debate because i'm not sure why he got a pass on a covid test on a virus that can kill people. >> yeah. >> to use your word, it is murderous to walk around knowing you have covid not wearing a mask breathing on people, the people who work for you, and again, the people who worked for him, why they didn't blow the whistle as rev pointed out, when he was possibly infecting them. >> yeah. >> the whole thing is rather sick, actually. >> it is crazy. >> it shows, again, the cult-like mentality around president trump that pervaded this presidency and, you know, has threatened -- has killed hundreds of thousands of americans due to his inability to deal with this virus in a responsible way. even in terms of his own personal responsibility. >> well, again, circling back, just for his own interests, if he is a narcissist. >> you're right. >> for his own interests, him doing that, him sort of plowing through and doing that instead of waiting a week or two to do a debate could have been the difference between him winning and losing. again, this was so much closer than we expected, and he turned off so many voters with that debate. i mean, the few that were still persuadable were turned off by that, the northern suburbs of atlanta, philly suburbs, the suburbs of detroit, in wisconsin. very interesting indeed. still, sort of fixed on alease talking about his sex life. we're going to get past that. >> he exhibits risky behavior consistently, that is my point. if it was not so well documented in the press i would not have brought that up. it's fund mental. >> so much of those he would send press releases to the "new york post." >> why? >> come on. it's gross. >> acting as his own spokesperson. >> john miller. >> i need one of those. >> let's go to mayor bill de blasio, we like to talk to him including his freakish amsterdam plan to give junkies needles. >> how do you really feel? >> let's talk about new york city. we talked several weeks ago, open for business. i've said on the show the past couple days, for the first time excited when i was coming in. they flew us around washington, d.c. for 45 minutes because it was hard to get into laguardia. it's packed. went out to restaurants. they're tough for those vaccine cards. you got to show your vaccine card. the restaurants are packed. man, this city is bustling again. it's very exciting. and now here comes a variant that's going to make it look like, you know, will smith movie. wipe everything out again. i'm joking. what have we learned, and how are you preparing for omicron? i can tell you this. >> yeah. >> new york is not shutting down. >> no. >> people that have got the vaccines and the booster, they're not going to shut down because there are unvaccinated people that don't mind dying. >> look, first of all, vaccines work. this is the lesson. what have we learned? vaccines work and vaccine mandates get people vaccinated. the bottom line, you talked about at restaurants, our restaurants are thriving because you go there, whether you're an employee or customer, you have to be vaccinated. it's simple, prove it, go in, everybody knows the ground rules. >> zero deaths yesterday in new york city. >> thank you. >> that's incredible. >> because of vaccinations. 89% of adults, this is amazing, 89% of adults have had one dose of the vaccine. i would say this to every mayor, governor, ceo, it's time for mandates. it's time to make this across the board because that's what gets us out of the covid era. >> we were talking about planes. that's not your deal, but canada is going to have that requirement. you want to fly on a plane, want to fly in a little tube with like 250 other people for three hours, you can do it, but you have to have a vaccine. >> i think it's time for a total vaccine mandate for all air travel. especially in the united states. >> and train travel. >> yes. this motivates people. there's a lot of people on the fence. this is why we did the initiative with the restaurants, for example. a lot of people say, well, i don't want to be vaccinated until you say, there's a lot of good things in life you won't participate in. suddenly that opens folks' minds when you have a mandate for employees, when it's a choice between vaccination and your paycheck, vaccination suddenly looks really good. >> yeah. >> the bottom line is, travel, travel should be only for the vaccinated. that will keep everyone safe who is traveling, but also an additional incentive to get folks over the line. most unvaccinated it's not a rigid ideological matter. they need one more push. >> yeah. >> and it takes some, i'll be blunt, takes gut, to all the ceos and political leaders, you will get blowback, but people do ultimately follow it and that's what keeps us safe. >> willie geist is at our bureau on the coast, he has yeah for you, willie. >> i only wish, mr. mayor. let me ask you about schools, there was a lot of consternation over the last year and a half, rightly so, people wanting to get their kids back into schools. one of the good stories this fall, the schools have been very safe. what does it look like now as we head into the winter months? are there extra precautions schools will be taking and how concerned are you some may have to have closures if omicron flares, how concerned are you that you could go back to a place like you saw last year or does the advent of vaccines for children 5 and up sort of take that off the table? >> well, thank god we have those vaccines for our youngest kids now, but we need a lot more parents to go out and get their kids vaccinated. here in new york city with the older kids, the 12 to 17, 81%, that's great, but the younger kids we need to see more and omicron should be an incentive for parents to go out right now and get their kids vaccinated. schools are incredibly safe. we have every adult vaccinated, if you're an adult going into a school building you have to be vaccinated. that really created the consistency and the safety we needed. look, everything we know about omicron so far, vaccines will have an impact on it. the bottom line still is, get more people vaccinated if we want to hold off this threat. >> mr. mayor, the governor, governor hochul, declared a state of emergency with the new variant coming. there's not been a case yet, it's a matter of time. new york city was hit right near the beginning of this pandemic back in march 2020. we all so sadly remember. give us sort of the early warning system, if you will, in the city if this variant is picked up, what happens next? give us also an update in terms of the workforce in the city, on rikers island, people being vaccinated, corrections officers. >> our workforce, 94% vaccinated that is continuing to grow. more vaccinations of the folks that work in the jail system and expect that to go up quite a bit. we feel good about the fact that mandates consistently work with public employees. my only hope and wish is that more folks in authority would do them because it helps lead everyone else. when you have the public employee mandates it helps everyone else in the community get vaccinated. in terms of omicron, we're going to emphasize as much vaccination as many ways possible over the weeks ahead. hope this will motivate the folks who haven't crossed the line now, because it's the one thing, the one thing that matters most is vaccination. we did a mask advisory and said to people, it's important to use masks in indoor spaces, crowded outdoor spaces and we're going to keep that message out there. number one point, vaccination is the thing that has changed the whole reality, but there are still people aren't there. we have cold weather coming on. put aside omicron. cold weather, people indoors, holidays, gatherings, it's time to get vaccinated. >> all right. bring up something that makes us all very uncomfortable around this table, you get your amsterdam plan where you're going to hand out needles. i don't like it. i don't get it. maybe that's why i don't like it. i need you to educate me. go through this program. because the rev and i -- >> he hit me with it early this morning. >> come on, man. >> we were talking about you may run for governor. >> yeah. >> we don't know. we were talking about what's going on. as soon as i walked in, joe says, what is this amsterdam plan, rev? before i could sit down, my daughter ashley texted me and said are they going to be shooting up drugs in the park while i'm trying to get youth huddled together? i told them, have no fear, de blasio is coming and he will convert all of us. >> i don't know about that, but i lived in upstate new york for many years, i don't know that they're going to like this plan in big flats but let's hear it. >> you're right to ask the question. i asked the questions too when i first heard about it. this is an approach, we call it overdose prevention centers, that's what it is, an effort to save lives of folks we're losing right now. >> give the setup on the record breaking number of lives. >> it's horrible joe. we've had an opioid crisis for years in this country and it's ravaged urban and rural areas. you were talking about something that unites americans, we have as big a problem in new york city as west virginia. >> also down in florida, with fentanyl being one of the biggest reasons why everybody -- you know, so many deaths happening. >> and then covid made -- >> omicron. welcome to new york city. go ahead. >> there it is. patient zero. >> the -- what we've seen with covid, the crisis it created in people's lives, tragically a lot more people turned to opioids. over 2,000 opioid deaths in new york city in 2020. we've never seen a number like that. nationally over 90,000 opioid deaths in 2020. this is the all-time high. we cannot allow the status quo to continue. for the last 30 years in much of western europe, in much of canada, there have been overdose prevention cents, and it says, let's be blunt, there are people who are using opioids, we know this and can't be silent or ignore it. it exists in our society. a lot of people are shooting up in their bedroom, in the mcdonald's bathroom, stairwell somewhere, and a lot are dying. >> there's fentanyl in there. >> a lot of them are dying and these are our brothers and sisters, aunts, uncles, people are dying, the status quo doesn't work. okay. a model that's been used successfully -- >> you say successfully. you have studies that show this savings lives. >> unquestionably. 30 years, tens of thousands of people have gone to these overdose prevention centers around the world and not a single death because there's medical personnel present there. medical centers. i want this to be clear. it is a medical facility. >> not in a park. >> the opposite of in a park because right now it is happening in a park. it is happening in a mcdonald's. it is happening in someone's room where no one can see them and people are dying. you're coming into a medical facility. we're not happy you have an addiction problem, but we're going to work with you first to make sure if you use drugs you don't die in the process. second, we have medical personnel hopefully can convince you to start the pathway to treatment. >> right. >> it can be done safely and smartly. these centers do needle exchange. we have the same debate about needle exchange, understandable debate. because it savings lives on a huge level. then we do the work of trying to get people off the drugs and move them to a better life. >> speaking of europe, we have a european cosmopolitan with us who has a question for you. katty. >> so, mayor -- >> she didn't even flinch at that, by the way. >> yeah, whatever. >> she agrees. >> go ahead, katty. >> i'm so used to it, joe, now it goes over my head. >> yes. >> mr. mayor, can i -- getting back to omicron at the moment and you've asked people to put masks back on inside. if we're going to follow the science, the science would suggest we ought to have mask mandates back inside, what european countries are doing in the light of omicron. wouldn't that be the thing to do to tell people if you're going to be in a supermarket or crowded place you have to wear a mask until we know more about this variant? a shung doesn't quite cut it. >> we've looked at this and there's a consensus among our team, including our health leadership, the focus has to be on vaccination and if you over focus on masks you take away from the focus on vaccination. in my opinion when it comes to tragedy, you have to have a -- strategy, you have to have a leading element, and that's vaccination. if you get vaccinated, that's the difference maker. masks help. masks do not do what vaccination does. and the bottom line is there's still so many people who need to get vaccinated. the kids in new york city under 20% of that youngest group have gotten vaccinated. it's only been a few weeks, we've had the vaccine. we need to create urgency among parents. omicron, we don't know enough about it, but it's coming. go get your child vaccinated. that's job one and the way to protect us. >> all right. mayor de blasio, thank you so much. running for governor? >> joe, i'm going to go all over new york state. you can infer as you wish, i'm going all over new york state in january to promote my education plan we talked about on the show. i look forward to going and engaging the people of this great state. >> are you running for governor? >> well, you can draw your own conclusion. >> he just answered. >> i'm going to be talking to the voters and people of new york state. >> sounds like a yes. >> oh, my gosh. >> sounds like a yes. >> when you get up, to upstate new york, say hello for me. >> i'll say joe says hi. get some holiday merchandise for your family. >> exactly. >> mika, what do we have next? >> i'm going to take it here in washington. so much to say there, about what's going on in new york. joining us in washington is the surgeon general of the united states, dr. vivek murphy. a couple things from that conversation in terms of what mayor de blasio is doing, i want to start with opioids. because a lot of people, i've heard the argument, that it hasn't been given the attention that coronavirus has been given and it is arguable that opioids have ravaged this countries as much, what do you make of the mayor's plans and also of that argument? >> well meeshgs ka, i'm glad you asked because you're right, with the covid-19 pandemic, there are other critical issues that have been overshadowed that have taken a back seat that people aren't thinking about as much. the opioid epidemic not only continues to be a crisis but it is a growing crisis. we saw this year in recent data we crossed more than 100,000 overdose deaths in the last 12-month period. >> that's exactly what we looked at in the first year of coronavirus. >> so this is a growing crisis and in 2016 when i was surgeon general, i issued a surgeon general report on alcohol, drugs, and health calling out this crisis is one we needed to invest in treatment, harm reduction and recovery services. the mayor, and with his commissioner of health are doing, they are making an effort to really address this problem through harm reduction. we know harm reduction in other spheres like needle exchanges works. it's reasonable strategy for new york to consider. we have to do as much as we can to address overdose deaths. we have a pandemic crisis, but we also have an overdose crisis and we can't let that go unaddressed. >> working on multiple levels. covid and delta variant, possibly omicron, spreads more quickly and dangerously among the unvaccinated? correct? yes or no? >> we know that covid spreads much more dangerously among the unvaccinated. no question. >> given that, given that, and from what we have seen now in terms of the behavior of the american public as it pertains to vaccines, when we're facing omicron and the questions that we still can answer, if it turns out to be a highly transmissible virus that is deadly or perhaps worse than delta in any way, are mandates the only way to keep this country safe? >> it's a good question, mika. i certainly think that vaccine requirements work. we know that from hard data, right. we've seen a recent report -- >> has anything else worked? >> so interestingly, i will tell you, when delta came on the scene earlier this summer we saw vaccination rates go up significantly, especially in the states that were hardest hit by delta, and so interestingly, what you're seeing now is anecdotally reports of people getting their booster shots in the light of the news about omicron. i do think when people sense that there's a threat, see their family members and friends getting vaccinated it does give them motivation. the requirements do accelerate that, and they work fundamentally. here's the important thing for people to remember about requirement, they are not new. we have done -- put in place vaccine requirements throughout our history as a country starting when george washington required troops to get inoculated for smallpox, 1800s when schools started requiring vaccines, to when the military is required to get vaccinated and required in hospitals as well. it's a proven strategy, it's effective and frankly part of our history in protecting people from viruss. >> willie geist, to add to that motivation, given the time that has passed that we've been confronting this pandemic, people can see that the vaccine works. they can see the science playing out before their eyes and that must help a little bit. >> yeah. that's the thing. so many people have had this for so long and lived with it and done well, hopefully that would sway some people. dr. mur this, i want to ask you about omicron, when you look at the total case numbers, frankly they aren't very high across the country and not here in the united states yet, although you and others have said it's likely here. we've heard two stories from the manufacturers of the vaccines. one saying yeah, we believe our vaccine holds up, the other saying we're not sure yet. do you believe the level of alarm we've heard in some corners about this variant is warranted at this point? >> well, it's a great question, willie, and it's the right question to be asking right now because here's what we have to do, we've got to be ahead of the curve and we've got to act in ways that will safeguard us if there is bad news about omicron in terms of how transmissible, severe the illness that it cause or evade our vaccines. we don't know any of that is true yet, and that's really important to say. there is a lot of reports you're going to hear in the coming days that you've already heard from people taking one anecdote or a few and trying to draw broad conclusions from them. i will tell you from a scientific perspective, we know what studs need to be done. it will take several weeks for those to be done. one thing we know, we know in every other case of variants we've encountered our vaccines have afforded us some protection against those variants, particularly against hospitalization, severe disease and death. it will likely be the case that omicron will also receive some protection from the vaccines. we don't know exactly how much. that's what we have to figure out. it's important right now, people go out and get vaccinated if they're not, get boosted. if you are vaccinated and eligible for a boost. it's really the best way that you can help protect yourself against this variant and other variants. >> u.s. surgeon general dr. vivek mur this, thank you for coming on the show this morning. >> good to be with you. >> still ahead on "morning joe," another school shooting in america. what we're learning ability the victims of yesterday's deadly attack at a high school outside of detroit and the teenager suspected of opening fire. you're watching "morning joe." t climate change the word i think of is jobs. these investments are a win win win for this country. creating jobs, cutting energy costs, protecting our climate. so let's not waste any more time. let's get to work. my nunormal? fewer asthma attacks with nucala. a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala reduces eosinophils, a key cause of severe asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala. ow bizarre by omc ♪ no annual fee on ask yo any discover card.ala. no one can deliver your mom's homemade short ribs. that's why instacart helps deliver the ingredients. and you add the love. superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance. ow! i'm ok! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ only in theaters december 17th. biden: i know that climate change is a challenge ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ that's going to define our american future. i know meeting the challenge will be a once in a lifetime opportunity to jolt new life into our economy. so let's not waste any more time. let's get to work. welcome back. turning now to the country's latest school shooting, three students are dead and eight other people are injured after a shooting at a high school outside detroit. the suspected shooter is a sophomore at the school. nbc news correspondent meghan fitzgerald has the details. >> reporter: overnight, a michigan community in mourning coming together to remember three teenagers shot and killed in an attack on a school in be suburban detroit. a 15-year-old student, who has not yet been publicly identified, suspected of opening fire on his classmates at oxford high school. >> our teachers told us to get down, hide, barricade the doors. >> reporter: authorities releasing the identities of the three, ranging in ages from 14 to 17. madison baldwin, a senior yet to graduate, tate myre and hannah st. julian died. students barricading themselves inside a classroom as someone in the hallway claiming to have a badge tries to enter. >> sheriff's office. you're safe to come out. >> safe to come out. >> we're not willing to take that risk right now. >> i can't hear you. >> we're not taking that risk right now. >> okay. come to the door and look at my badge, bro. >> he said bro. >> red flag. >> the students, who believe it's the shooter, making a desperate escape out of the window. >> the suspected gunman described by police as a 15-year-old sophomore armed with a semiautomatic pistol firing at least a dozen rounds. authorities say they've received more than 100 911 calls and were able to apprehend the shooter, less than five minutes after the first emergency call. >> that, again, i believe interrupted what potentially could have been seven more victims. >> reporter: investigators say the gun was purchased by the boy's father days ago on black friday and the teen has posted photos practicing with it. >> our thanks to meghan fitzgerald for that report. coming up, the court will reconvene this morning for ghislaine maxwell's trial after hearing graphic testimony from witnesses who accused jeffrey epstein of unspeakable abuse. nbc's stephanie gosk has the details next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ jerry, you've got to see this. seen it. trust me, after 15 walks ...it gets a little old. ugh. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had 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[screams and laughter] yeah! xfinity brought us together after all. get started with xfinity internet and ask about wifi speed fast than a gig. click, call or visit a store today. jeffrey epstein ghislaine maxwell of sex trafficking took the stand detailing the alleged abuse she suffered. nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk has more from the trial. >> reporter: ghislaine maxwell's trial taking a disturbing and at times emotional turn when one of the four alleged victims in the case took the stand testifying under the assume nim jane, telling the court she was frozen in fear the first time jeffrey epstein sexually abused her at his poolhouse in palm beach. i had never seen a penis before. i was terrified and felt gross. she says she was 14, eating ice cream with friends at a summer camp for gifted young artist, when maxwell and epstein first approached her. that meeting, she says, leading to years of alleged grooming and abuse, including sexual encounters with epstein, other women and maxwell. maxwell pleaded not guilty to six sex trafficking counts spanning from 1994 and 2004. her defense team noting jane only met with law enforcement after epstein's death, telling the jury she was looking for money from a victim settlement fund. >> give us room. >> what are you going to be saying? >> larry told the court he recalled meeting jane when she was a passenger on epstein's jet. remembering her piercing powder blue eyes. he into jeffrey epstein and his rich and famous guests around the world, that often included ghislaine maxwell as epstein's number two and his go-to person to handle everything else not business related with his company. naming notable figures he's flown aboard in the past, including bill clinton, donald trump and prince andrew, none of whom are alleged to have committed wrongdoing in this trial. he later testified he never believed underaged girls were aboard and never saw sexual activity on the plane. >> that was stephanie gosk reporting. coming up, washington seems nor focused on confrontation than compromise and having a big impact at the ballot box for younger voters. we'll run through brand new polling on that front when "morning joe" comes right back. real cowboys get customized car insurance with liberty mutual, so we only pay for what we need. -hey tex, -wooo. can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ this is the greatest idea you'll ever hear. okay, it's an app that compares hundreds of travel sites for hotels and cars and vacation rentals like kayak does for flights. so it's kayak. yeah, like kayak. why don't you just call it kayak. i'm calling it... canoe. compare hundreds of travel sites for thousands of trips. kayak. search one and done. ♪♪ the only thing a disaster can't destroy is hope. ♪♪ donate now at redcross.org switching wireless carriers is easy with xfinity. just lean on our helpful switch squad to help you save ♪♪ with xfinity mobile. they can help break up with your current carrier for you and transfer your info to your new phone. giving you a fast and easy experience that can save you hundreds a year on your wireless bill. visit your nearest xfinity store and see how the switch squad can help you switch and save. it's the xfinity black friday sales event. learn how to save up to $1000 on select phones by visitng your local xfinity store today. ♪♪ . welcome back to "morning joe." it is 8:49. we are looking at the united states supreme court where a landmark case is going to be heard today, possibly a landmark case today, one of the most important cases on abortion to come before the supreme court in quite some time. fear not, supporters of roe v. wade elise jordan tells us that the mississippi lawyers are so incompetent roe v. wade will be spared. >> i'm just not happy with some of the other behavior going on in mississippi politics, but i think it's going to be interesting to see if justice roberts and justice kavanaugh decide to basically let states make their decision. >> right. >> on roe versus wade. that's the big question here. is the precedent enough where they're going to uphold it or are they going to maneuver around. >> it's going to be interesting. again, you've got a case that's really been precedent for half a century, about 70% of americans have supported upholding roe v. wade in all that time. i wonder if we're really going to see the division of the court into three distinct separate parts, the tree liberals, the three conservatives and john roberts ask brett kavanaugh and amy coney barrett. many people after last session were thinking it's sort of that 3, 3, 3 court on a lot of cases. this would seem to be if roberts has influence over brett kavanaugh, be one of those cases where he would preach evolution and not revolution. we shall see. let's bring in right now director of polling at the institute of politics at harvard university, the author of the forthcoming book "fight: how gen x is. >> we have a 42nd edition of the harvard iop youth poll, joe, the results are startling. >> first of all, tell me about who you polled. >> we polled actually -- the books and the polls were gen z. younger millennials, 25 to 29-year-olds, we talked to a couple thousand 18 to 29-year-olds, young americans, for the 42nd tame since 2000. and what we found was we're dealing with about 55 million americans, okay? after showing up in record numbers in the midterm elections, shattering all records in the 2020 presidential election, four, five states flipped from red to blue based upon the votes of young americans. arizona, michigan, pennsylvania, georgia, voters over the age of 45 voted red. younger people put biden over the edge. they've got serious concerns, they're ringing the alarm about the state of our democracy today. a majority of them say it's unhealthy or already failed. more people say it's failed than actually it's healthy, number one. number two, they've got serious concerns about the state of our climate and environment. number three, despite schools opening up, kids back on college campuses and the economy doing far better, we have a mental health crisis. a majority of 18 to 29-year-olds many times over the last several weeks have had thoughts of hopelessness, depression, and 25% have gone so far to think seriously about self-harm. >> let's put those numbers back up again. it's very important to see this is bipartisan pessimism about american democracy. look at that in trouble line where 39%, 49% republican, 37% democratic, 38% independent, not really that big of a difference in these numbers, not the wide gaps we see in others. so what about joe biden? how are they feeling about biden right now? >> his overall approval rating is at 46% among 18 to 29-year-olds. 47% among registered voters, down 13 points since the first 100 day window when we polled it for the first time. he's down ten points among democrats. you can see that the independent number, 39% and. >> bad number. >> bad number. >> yeah, yeah. >> that's obviously not going to get it done. tell us a little bit more about your polling. are there certain issues that are animating young voters? we hear a lot about climate change, this is the generation that's going to bring that to the forefront. what else did you find? >> younger people are judging the biden presidency on three things. one is dealing with the crisis around the economy and supply chain and creating jobs, one. the second is health care was also very important in this poll, and third is uniting the country, in addition of course to climate change, and a majority feel very strongly that the government is noting it enough to deal with climate change, which we said is not just a domestic priority but also a priority in foreign policy as well. >> something i found interesting about the poll was popularity of politicians, and can you talk about who is the most popular politician with this age group? >> no, because i'm not sure there is anybody really. >> well, yes, but of the -- it's bernie sanders right? >> sanders and biden have the same level of favorability. 46%. the difference is that bernie sanders unfavorable is better than biden's unfavorable because i think less younger americans are kind of familiar with that. but overall, that's the ceiling of this point. it's in the mid-40s. a lot of people were surprised at that. i went back to take a look at the eight obama years, maybe the last poll that we conducted during those eight years was his approval among younger white americans over 50%, and it averaged 50% among all younger americans over the course of his eight years. 51% his first years, 49%, it was african americans and the hispanic latino community that kept him above 50% for context. >> willie ice has a question. willie. >> good morning, john. when you look at that poll, if we can go back to it, about the state of american democracy. if you combined in trouble or fail, that's a majority of young people who think american democracy is in trouble or has failed and republicans have a higher number but it's relatively steady across the board. what do you expect as you talk to the people that you asked goes into all of this beyond the obvious that we've seen over the last year seasons the 2020 election? >> i think several things, one of which is i think there needs to be an improved civics education to talk about the very importance of income. we found that only 57% of all young americans say it's very important that america is a democracy. 57%, it's much higher among those with a college education. it's much higher among democrats and republicans, but that's something that's noteworthy. but in this research and in the other kind of qualitative research that i do, we hear concerns about clearly voting rights. we hear concerns about the role of money, we hear concerns about the electoral college. as we talked about at the beginning, you know, younger americans, they're just interested in compromise or interested in things working. it's at the heart of why they think our democracy is broken. >> john, let me ask you this. you say that the turnout was the difference in 2020 with young voters. is there frustration and questions about democracy? does that mean that there is the risk of a lower turnout in the midterm elections which -- to the benefit of the republicans and their concern about voting rights, does that also in many ways fuel them toward being involved actively in a lot of the voting rights campaigns and crusades. >> i think we have to keep a close eye on that. as of this moment, we have 37% of young americans say they will definitely vote in the next midterm. that's the same number we had at this stage in the last midterm and about 35% showed up, which was sadly a record for midterm elections. at this point it's okay, but we do need to be concerned about continuing to engage them pause the media landscape is changing so quickly, it's going to take real kind of innovation and entrepreneurship to connect with them to keep them engaged. ten seats went from red to blue in the midterm because of young people. >> we'd love to have you back. we want to talk about the mental health crisis that so many young americans are facing. it is -- i mean, it's beyond an epidemic. it is a pandemic, a mental health pandemic. we'll talk about that next time you're here. thank you so much as always. mika, finally this morning, speaking of young voters, you've got some breaking news. >> i do. i said to alex we need some good news today and acore gave me some. our long-time audio guy, he cues the music, david quanvie, we call him q, had a baby boy. look at this beautiful baby, this is kai aiyden quanvie. welcome to the world. baby kai and mommy jeannine are doing well. congratulations. we love you guys, and we always appreciate q every single day on this show. and that does it for us this morning. hallie jackson picks up the coverage right now. i'm hallie jackson live just outside the supreme court on capitol hill in for stephanie rule this hour, and this morning the battle over abortion rights in this country is reaching the highest court. in one hour from right now, the supreme court will hear arguments in a case that directly challenges roe versus wade, and nearly 50 year of precedence. it is a blockbuster case. it's coming from mississippi where the only abortion clinic left there is challenging a law banning most abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy, with only rare exceptions for medical emergencies or cases of severe fetal abnormality. here's the deal, mississippi wants the court to overturn two historic decisions, which say women have a constitutional right to abortion, the point of survival outside the womb generally thought to be around 24 weeks. the case will be decided by a court seen as more sympathetic with the 6-3 conserve tir , president trump explicitly said

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