It is part of the 1 billion grant from the Department Of Transportation that will bolster Infrastructure Projects in 47 states, d. C. And guam. Mr. Secretary, welcome to The Sunday Show. Glad to be with you. So were sitting here in Liberty Square in baltimore. You Just Announced a big project as a result of the bipartisan Infrastructure Law. Why here . And whats the significance . Several things made this one of the projects that made the cut for this years round of raise grants, a program we can fund a lot more of thanks to this new law. Were looking for projects that bring together a lot of our top priorities. That includes safety, economic opportunity, equity and climate. And a great Transit Vision can do all of that. Baltimore is an area where there has been a longstanding need for east West Connection and where sometimes in the past Transportation Decisions actually cut people off from opportunity. So what theyre going to do, adding bus lanes, creating safer and expanded transit, will help more people access services, access jobs, access schools, and i think sets this city on a more equitable path, which is why that local vision was so compelling. And lets talk more specifically about the east West Connection here in baltimore. There is the socalled Highway To Nowhere, which exemplifies a lot of what youre trying to accomplish with the bipartisan infrastructure. Talk about why the Highway To Nowhere is example number one for why this is so important. So, a good Infrastructure Project connects people. And it connects people to each other as well as to opportunities. Sometimes infrastructure can be the reverse. The Highway To Nowhere is an example of a stretch of road built, only about a mile and half, but the way it was put in demolished so many homes and really helped to wreck a neighborhood. And were trying to make sure that as we look forward, were doing the reverse, were connecting, not dividing, improving, not harming. As you might expect and as we see in so many places around the country, black residents displaced by that investment. It didnt serve Transportation Needs very well. I bring this up not to wallow in it or make people feel bad about mistakes of the past, but we have a chance to do something about it. And thats something were looking for among criteria for programs in the future, how to make something better, where maybe in the past federal dollars made something worse. What do you say to those critics and usually conservative critics who say that your focus on equity in this way, or just to be perfectly blunt, focusing in on the role race has played in Transportation Decisions, infrastructure decisions, what do you say to them who say youre making the wrong argument or you have no argument . Look what were doing is we are reconnecting people, who may have been disconnected or divided, i did discriminatory decisions in the past. That helps anybody. I dont know why anybody would be against reconnecting people who have been divided by discriminatory decisions in the past. The point is not to make america feel guilty, the point is to make america better and more equitable and more effective in moving people to where they need to go. The point of transportation is to connect. So if a transportation was ever used to divide, we have a responsibility, a moral one and very practical one, to fix it. The mayor was describing when he was a kid in baltimore, taking two hours to get to school. Two hour commute. Thats longer than it takes to get to baltimore from my home in washington, d. C. We can do better. Especially for people who dont have cars, who are disproportionately residents of color. This is something that makes whole communities better off. And it hurts no one to it tell the truth and do something about it. What is the economic argument for this . You make the transportation argument, but isnt there an economic argument also. Absolutely. There is 18 0,000 jobs along the stretch were supporting here. Connecting people to those jobs makes for a stronger economy and brings opportunity into neighborhoods that havent always had access in terms of folks getting to where those Job Opportunities really are. And we see this again played out across the country, where it is quicker to get to a city from a whole different state if you do have a car than to get across town if you dont have a car. Fixing that connects more people to the Job Opportunities that help them build well, and establish a Stable Family life with all of the social as well as financial benefits that that brings for family upon family in some of the underserved areas across our community and the country. I know it is now the bipartisan Infrastructure Law. Now there is talk about the build back better act, which is human infrastructure. Are there things in that legislation that is now being cobbled together that is important to you as the secretary of transportation . Absolutely. Yes. Most of the physical infrastructure work was contemplated in the bill just signed. There is more envisioned in the build back better law. Ill give you one example, it contains incentives to make it more affordable to buy an electric vehicle, a discount in effect for families thinking about getting an ev. They will never have to worry about gas prices again. The people who stand to benefit most from owning an ev are often rural residents, who have the longest distances to drive, they burn the most gas. They would gain the most by having that vehicle. These are residents not connected to electric vehicles viewed as a luxury item. If we can make an electric vehicle less expensive for everybody, more people can take advantage and well be building and selling more american evs which means over time theyll become less expensive to make and buy for everybody. Thats one example of something in the build back better legislation that would be great news on top of all the work that were going to be doing right now to deliver the bill that just passed. Thats plenty to keep me busy for a while. The last question, and the most important question for you, mr. Secretary, and that is this, you have any baby pictures to show us . How are the babies . Theyre great. We had a tough stretch with both of them in the hospital. Were past that. Theyre fully recovered. And theyre bringing us so much joy. Not a lot of sleep, quite a bit of work, but it changes your entire relationship to the future and to each other, and i think on this new adventure of raising these beautiful twins, a boy and a girl. And, you know, every parent gets that look in their eye when theyre talking about their kids, nothing can totally prepare you for it, but everything they told me is true, and then some about what it is like to be a dad. Well, i was about it say happy thanksgiving. But this is going to be a very happy thanksgiving for you and chasten and the twins. Pete buttigieg, thank you very much for coming to The Sunday Show. Thanks a lot. Joining me now to continue this discussion on infrastructure is congresswoman Debbie Dingell of michigan and Congressman Jamie Gomez of california. Thank you, both, very much for coming to The Sunday Show. Good morning. Good morning to both of you. Good morning. Congresswoman dingell, since you are there smack in the middle of the country in michigan, ill start with you, since im in congressman gomezs state. I want to put up this report card and it gives grades for both of your states. Michigan gets a d plus, california gets a c minus. Congresswoman dingell how will the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill help michigan improve that grade . There are so many different ways it is going to happen. First of all, our governor won campaigning on a motto of fix the damn roads. Sorry to use that word on a Sunday Morning but thats how people feel. We have a significant amount of money that is going to remove lead from pipes, michigan again taught the country about what happens when you have a Community Like flint that has lead in the water. 50 of the children in this country whose blood have been tested have lead in their blood. Now we have got that and several other cities that have lead in their blood. And the pandemic taught us disparities of high Speed Internet and those that have it and those that dont. And thats going to dress this problem, just for beginners. There is a lot of other critical things, but in this bill going to make such a difference in a state like michigan bridges that are crumbling, logistics being impacted because theyre so bad. I got home after we voted, that saturday, Infrastructure Bill got out of the car, was meet something people, i stepped in a pothole and went flailing everywhere and said, this is what the Infrastructure Bill is going to fix. And to your point about im glad to see youre okay, having fallen stepping into a pothole, make that clear first. You mentioned Benton Harbor, michigan, we put up a headline of an Opinion Piece in the Washington Post, another water crisis looms in michigan. Is Benton Harbor the next flint . As the report card showed a moment ago, california gets a c minus. How is the bipartisan Infrastructure Law going to excuse me going to help the golden state . Before i was in congress, i was a state legislator, State Assemblyman and i was the cochair of the Conference Committee on infrastructure. So california did take steps to start investing billions of dollars in our roads, bridges, water ways, and we started that a few years ago. But we couldnt do it alone. So we have been waiting and california has been waiting for the federal government to step in. And this is where theyre stepping in. And it is going to help deliver even more improvements on our bridges, our roads, and youre going to see a profound impact. One project in my district now that is partly federally funded is the 6th street viaduct. Hundreds of people are put to work. Mostly people of color, a lot of women and people who live in the area. So the bipartisan the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill is going to have opportunities to have targeted local hire, so people can get back to work, but also in good union paying jobs. So it is going to be a profound impact. And at the same time, this is just to make us more competitive in the future, and as Secretary Buttigieg said, this could have a profound impact on how people commute, how people get from their home to their job and back. And people can save 30 minutes, 20 minutes of commute time to be with their families, all of us are to be better off. All right, so lets look forward. Now when the senate goes back into session, you all go back into session starting tomorrow, starting next week, negotiations begin in earnest in the senate over the build back better act, put up some of the things that are in the framework. Once it comes out of the senate, it is going to come back to you in the house and i want each of you in the two minutes we have left to talk about what are your red lines . If the bill come backs from the senate and it doesnt include fill in the blank provision, you couldnt possibly support it. Congresswoman dingell. I dont think thats going to happen. I think most of the negotiations that occurred to get this bill passed in the house have happened. I will be very unhappy if paid family leave is not in there because i think were the only industrialized nation in the world that doesnt have it. But i also know that change takes time. And we got the commitment of republican and Democratic Senators to go to work on that, if for some reason joe manchin once again wins at doing something that is going to not i mean, thats going to harm a lot of people. I believe were going to get build back better done by christmas. It will make the difference in so Many Americans lives. Congressman gomez are you equally optimistic that it will get done by christmas . I am. I am. 95 of the bill has been cooked and negotiated. It was a thats why it took so long to get both of these bills, the Infrastructure Bill passed and signed into law, but also get build back better into the senate. And it is in a good position. There is great provisions in there, have transformative impacts and already having transformative impacts. The Child Tax Credit alone cut Child Poverty in this country from 40 to 60 . I have parents who come up to me with tears in their eyes and telling me that this Child Tax Credit, the fact that they can rely on it every single month, that it is changing how they budget, how they provide for their kids. So these kind of provisions are essential as well as the universal prek. Imagine that. Every single child in this country can start off in the right foot in their education. Youre going to i didnt get to go to preschool. My parents couldnt afford it. I turned out okay. But, you know what, imagine if i would have just started a little bit earlier and other people did the same thing. So were very confident that it is going to pass. All right. Congressman gomez, real fast, yes or no answer. If universal prek doesnt come back to the house and it is not in there, given what the senate will vote on, will you still vote for build back better . Im going to vote for i think it is going to be in there. All right. Congressman jamie gomez of california, congresswoman Debbie Dingell of michigan, thank you, both, very much for coming back to The Sunday Show. Coming up, later in the show, the latest on the new covid variant omicron. And what it means for us here in the u. S. . But, first, well bring you up to date on the january 6th investigation, subpoenas continue to be issued as a parade of depositions is set to start tomorrow. That is if the witnesses actually show up. More after the break. Stay with us. Actually show up more after the break stay with us superpowers from a spider bite . I could use some help showing the world how Liberty Mutual customizes their Car Insurance so they only pay for what they need. gasps did it work . Only pay for what you need liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Spiderman no way home in theaters December 17th there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. But with our new multicloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. vo for fourteen years, subaru and our retailers have been sharing the love with those who need it most. To unveil them to the world. Now subaru is the largest automotive donor to makeawish and meals on wheels. And the largest corporate donor to the aspca and National Park foundation. Get a new subaru during the share the love event and subaru will donate Two Hundred And Fifty Dollars to charity. You have always loved vicks vapors. And now youll really love new vicks vapostick. It goes on clear and dries quickly. No mess. Just the Soothing Vicks vapor for the whole family. Introducing new vicks vapostick. Every day in business brings something new. So get the flexibility of the new mobile service designed for your Small Business. Introducing Comcast Business mobile. You get the most Reliable Network with Nationwide 5g included. And you can get unlimited data for just 30 per line per month when you get four lines or mix and match data options. Available now for comcast Business Internet customers with no lineactivation fees or Term Contract required. See if you can save by switching today. Comcast business. Powering possibilities. Starting tomorrow, a parade of witnesses should start appearing for their depositions before the January 6th Select Committee to investigate the attack on the capitol. As they should because there is no guarantee theyll show up. Steve bannon didnt show up for his and got indicted after Congress Held him in contempt for defying his subpoena. Trumps Chief Of Staff mark meadows awaits his fate after not showing up for his deposition. And others like trump ally roger stone and sandy hook denier alex jones who were Hit With Subpoenas last week are expected to do the same. Im going to make a decision between now and December 17th based on the advice of my counsel. But it is very dangerous to go into this forum because they are not honest. This is a partisan witchhunt. Im probably going to declare the fifth, because these people are political criminals that have an ax to grind. Joining me now to discuss what this all means, civil rights attorney and msnbc legal analyst maya wily. Thank you for coming back to the show. The thing about the subpoenas that we have been seeing over the last few weeks is i want to put the calendar back up again. What is fascinating to me is that every day pretty much starting tomorrow someone is due in or a couple of people are due in to give depositions, we already have seen people say theyre not showing up. Mark meadows didnt show up, steve bannon didnt show up, those two characters are making it clear theyre not going to show up. Do you take the same message i take from the select committee by the way they plotted this out, theyre basically defying everybody to defy their subpoenas every day to sort of cement in the minds of the American People about what exactly theyre trying to what theyre trying to do and what theyre trying to show. I think thats an astute observation. The job of the committee, lets go back to the basics, it is supposed to uncover what caused january 6th, what happened that day, who is responsible if anyone for organizing it into something that was intended to be what it became and what to do to prevent it in the future. Thats a pretty big task given how many people were enveloped, involved and they started with hundreds of witnesses, who they were speaking with, we forget because we focus so much on the people not communicating with congress, that there are hundreds who are. And these subpoenas are coming for those who are have direct knowledge who are whose names are coming up in the hundreds of people, and i add one other thing that is very interesting to me about this. It is the folks that get closer and closer to the trusted circle of donald trump. People who scheduled him pointing them to conversations that he had or people he was in touch with, who are central figures in organizing this, alex jones, were talking about steve miller, folks who are directly connected to White Supremacist groups, conspiracy theories, and who have direct pipeline to donald trump, because if you also recall, we know that the Department Of Justice has already identified some of the hate groups that were involved in january 6th for criminal conspiracy convictions, potentially. We dont know what the evidence is going to show. But thats whats going on. And all of these concentric circles are starting to overlap with these subpoenas. Right. And actually, more to your point, lets play what our friend joyce vance told jasmine on this point about the number of people who have been cooperating with the committee and what exactly that means. Lets listen. But the real story here with the january 6th committees work is the volume of witnesses speaking to them without subpoenas. And the documents that were getting. And we see that reflected in some of these newer subpoenas, which contain information that is clearly coming from witnesses and theyre being very, very definitive. And, you know, maya, thats a very excellent point that these subpoenas are very, very specific and when you got someone like roger stone saying that, you know they are not being honest, hes going to get tripped up in this, isnt he . Hes been tripped up before. He does have a criminal record. G to plead the fifth, which doesnt mean hes guilty of anything. The point is, if you dont have anything to hide, why not come forward and share the information . It is a Bipartisan Commission there are two republicans on it who would be happy, i am sure, to kind of recover the reputation of the Republican Party here. And so really honestly i think joyce is dead right. It is the fact that the committee can point to statements that other witnesses, witnesses who like and supported and were working to help organize the rally on january 6th saying they were in communication with the white house, and members of congress, we shouldnt forget that either, from gosar to others, who actually knew and understood and were participating in the organizing, but are saying that donald trump was in the conversations, are saying that these are folks who were having conversations with donald trump. So it is both a legitimate line of inquiry, it is based in facts, given by witnesses who have no reason to be trying to set donald trump or any republican up for any kind of witchhunt and thats the most important thing to know and understand here. It is going to be a fascinating week and a fascinating month to see who shows up and who doesnt. Maya wiley, thank you for coming back to The Sunday Show. Coming up, a new covid variant detected everseas. Well bring you the latest on omicron and what it means for us here next. Stay with us. N and what it means here next. Stay with us like pulsing, electric shocks, sharp, stabbing pains, or an intense burning sensation. What is this nightmare . Its how some people describe. Shingles. A painful, blistering rash that could interrupt your life for weeks. Forget social events and weekend getaways. If youve had chickenpox, the virus that causes shingles is already inside of you. If youre 50 years or older ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. tiger this is the dimension of imagination. If youre 50 years or older ask you doctor alice loves the scent of gain so much, she wished there was a way to make it last longer. Say hello to your Fairy Godmother alice and longlasting gain scent beads. Try spring daydream, now part of our irresistible scent collection. A lot of whether or not were headed into a bleak or bleaker winter is going to depend upon what we do. Even when you have variants like this, and there is a lot of unknowns about this variant, we know from experience when you get a level of protection with vaccine and particularly now with the extraordinary increase in protection you get with the booster, even when you have variants of concern, you do well against them. Dr. Fauci giving some critical advice this morning as the new Covid Variant Dubbed Omicron is spreading in a growing number of can countries and sparking alarm here at home. Tomorrow, the United States will begin restricting flights from eight african countries after the variant was first detected in south africa. And new yorks governor has declared a State Of Emergency which allows hospitals to protect capacity by limiting nonemergency procedures. She warns that while the new variant has not been detected in the u. S. , its coming. Joining me now, dr. Patel. Welcome back to The Sunday Show. How worried should we be at this point . And what is so concerning about this particular variant . Yeah, jonathan, good to be with you. I wish it were a bit better news. So ill temper this by saying many of us in the Public Health community are worried when we seeing some like omicron, 32 mutations on the spike protein, and were worried not just because of the sheer number, those mutations are significantly different to the delta and some of the other viruses strains that we have dealt with. And that mutation, set of mutations makes it easier to transmit, easier for the virus to attach and potentially easier for the antibodies that our current vaccines to produce to not necessarily neutralize that particular strain. Now, all of this needs to be kind of born out over the next several weeks to see if thats true. Well see some of the studies over the next two weeks. Until then, you see some of the rather crude precautions being taken on travel, i make assumptions the virus is already here, the strain is already in the United States, so the best thing an individual can do, make sure theyre up to date on their booster if they have been six months over the age of 18 from the second dose or two months from the one dose of j j, now is the time to get a booster. And then also to take precautions, whether you have mandatory masking or not, just be smart about being in crowded situations where you dont novak know Vaccine Status of other people. Lets listen to what Vice President harris had to say when she was asked about this yesterday. I have been briefed and as the president has said, were going to take every precaution and so thats why we have taken the measures we have. I cant stress enough, one, if you have not had the booster shot, get the booster shot. Cannot stress enough the importance of getting vaccinated for those who have not been vaccinated. I will say what i say every time, because it remains true, they are safe, the vaccines are safe, they are free and they will save your life. So there you have the Vice President echoing your point about the boosters. I want to get your thoughts on i think you alluded to this in your initial answer, about the Travel Restrictions that are being put in place, you have African Nations now saying that theyre being unfairly punished over the new variant. Are the travel bans an overreaction, do you think . I do, but ill also say as a former policy person, what else can you do . And that becomes the answer unfortunately to a really bad question. I completely agree. Im glad we have this greek Naming System. It is so much better than what we were seeing before. South african variant. The only reason we know this was in south africa is because lets be candid, theyre much better about global viral surveillance than almost any other country including the United States. Were penalizing the people that are doing the job that frankly i wish we could do. But if we had done a better job almost every variant could be dubbed the United States variant because we would find it. And thats exactly what is happening with African Nations. And i want to put another reminder, African Nations, especially the 50 that are on most of the countrys kind of, quote, red list now for Banning Travel to and from, those are the countries that had 2 to 6 of their population vaccinated. So this is definitely just a this is what we were all worried about, global scenarios with low vaccination countries kind of being a reservoir or place for the variants to emerge. We can only hold ourselves responsible for that. Instead of Travel Restrictions, i would love to see much stricter Testing Requirements using pcr tests. We can see this on a pcr test, were seeing this strain on a pcr test, thats great. It would be much more useful to have mandatory pcr testing, and to do a much better job on surveillance on our end, which im hoping our country is doing. Dr. Patel, im telling you this, it is also a way of telling folks in the control room, i want clipped what you just said about south africa. Theyre so much better at surveillance. Thats why we know about omicron. Thank you very much for coming back to The Sunday Show. Coming up, all eyes are on a mississippi Abortion Case going before the Supreme Court on wednesday. A case that could decide the fate of roe v. Wade. 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As we await a Supreme Court decision on texas restrictive abortion law, the justices are about to hear arguments in another case that could pose an even more imminent threat to the constitutional right to an abortion. On wednesday, The High Court will take on a challenge to mississippis abortion law, which bans the procedure at 15 weeks of pregnancy. And unlike the texas case, which focuses on whether the federal government can intervene in a state law, the mississippi case takes direct aim at roe v. Wade. Joining me now, melissa murray, Professor Of Law at nyu, former law clerk to Justice Sonia sotomayor. And msnbc legal analyst. Melissa, welcome back to The Sunday Show. Okay. So we had you on when the texas case came up. And implications for that. This is a this is a different case than texas. Talk more about that. Theyre both the same in that they both deal with challenges to laws that are socalled heart beat laws, laws that ban abortion at a particular point in pregnancy, and in both cases they ban the abortion in advance of viability. Viability is the marker in pregnancy, where the fetus can survive outside of the womb. It is typically marked by 23 or 24 weeks. So texas law and mississippis law are both in violation of roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood Versus Casey Which stated states Cannot Ban Abortion before viability. Theyre similar in that way. They are two distinct challenges. The mississippi challenge was already pending on the courts calendar before they took up this texas challenge in september. Let me i was about to signal to the control room element two, in the petition filed by the Mississippi Attorney general lynn fitch, last june, this is what theyre arguing. Roe and casey are strong. The conclusion that abortion is a constitutional right has no basis in text, structure, history or tradition. Because the constitution does not protect a right to abortion, it provides no guidance to courts on how to account for the interests in this context. Explain that to me, because i thought thats what roe was all about, there is a constitutional right to abortion. But based on right to privacy. Thats exactly right. I will note and it is important to remember this, when mississippi first petitioned the court to take up this case in 2019, its ask was much more modest. Were trying to figure out if the constitution permits a state to restrict abortion in advance of viability. So in their view, a very modest ask that only dealt with the question of where the line was that the state could intervene to regulate abortion. After the court had taken up this case, and after september of 2020, when Ruth Bader Ginsburg died, mississippis ask became much more aggressive and assertive and thats when it made this request to the court, this invitation, if you will, to take up roe and casey and to overturn them on the ground they have proven to be unworkable. According to mississippi, technological advances mean the fetus can survive outside the womb at much earlier. 23, 24 weeks. This is highly debated by the medical community. Let me put up this opinion poll, should roe v. Wade be upheld . Keep as it, 62 , overturn it, 38 . So a majority of the country thinks that roe should be upheld. You are, as we noted, you were a law clerk for Supreme Court Justice Sonia sotomayor. And im wondering how much does popular opinion, how much does an opinion poll like that play in the deliberations of the justices, or does Public Opinion not factor in at all . Well, the justices deliberate in a black box. No one admitted to their conferences but the other justices. So no one actually knows what happens there. I think we all do know that the justices are susceptible to Public Opinion. They have to be because the court relies on its own legitimacy with the public in order to ensure that its decisions are on course. It is not like congress, not like the president , it cannot raise an army, it cannot withhold funds, all it has to make us obey with the decisions is its own legitimacy. They were not partisan, they were not partisan hacks. What they did was above board. For the first time in as long as there has been polling, the Supreme Courts Polling Numbers were abysmally low and many people saw that as the public response to what happened in the texas sb8 case. Melissa murray, every time youre on, i feel infinitely smarter than when i came in. Thank you for coming back to The Sunday Show. Thank you. Coming up, well discuss the charlottesville verdict that came four years after the deadly 2017 Unite The Right rally. Keep it right here. Unite the ry keep it right here are you tired of clean clothes that just dont smell clean . Downy unstopables inwash Scent Boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh way longer than detergent alone. If you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have Downy Unstopables inwash Scent Boosters. Swords Clashing had enough . No. Arthritis. Here. New aspercreme arthritis. Full prescriptionstrength . Reduces inflammation . Thank the gods. Dont thank them too soon. Kick pain in the aspercreme. After three days of deliberations, the jury in the civil lawsuit against the organizers of the 2017 Unite The Right rally awarded nine people who were injured 25 million in damages. The jury, however, was unable to reach a decision on federal conspiracy charges. Charlottesville has since struggled to move past the events that took place four years ago. But this trial sends the message that White Supremacist terror will not be tolerated. Joining me now are the attorneys for the charlottesville plaintiffs, Roberta Kaplan and karen dunn. Thank you very much for coming to The Sunday Show and it is great to see you, my friends. It has been a very long time. Thank you for coming to The Sunday Show. Thank you for having us. Roberta, we sat down for an interview in my podcast at the Washington Post four years ago after you and karen were hired by the integrity for america, a nonprofit Civil Rights Organization that helped to support the lawsuit. You were using the 1871 i think the klan law, to bring this suit. Talk about that law and why it was so important for the suit you both brought. So the ku klux klan after 1871 basically means what it says. It was a law passed by the Reconstructionist Congress after the civil war to stop the violent lynchings that were being done, perfect picture, during the rise of the kkk. And what happened in charlottesville, let me back up, it is one of the very few civil rights laws that applies to private conduct as opposed to governmental conduct. And our argument and our case was that what happened in charlottesville four years ago is exactly believe it or not what congress in 1871 intended to prohibit, just the modern version. So rather than wearing robes and hoods as you saw in that photo, they were on telegram and discord and they used the internet, but it was exactly the same thing. Thats the law that we use. And, karen, one of the things that came out after the decision was made, was handed down, that a lot of these organizations are, like, we dont have the money to pay this, where are we going to get the money to pay this, but was getting the 25 million reward, was the goal really to get the 25 million to the plaintiffs or was there something larger here . Well, jonathan, both goals are true. First of all, were going to pursue these defendants for the money that they owe our plaintiffs. And we will not let up on that. We are good at this. Were tenacious, we will persevere. And we will make sure that we pursue these defendants wherever they are. So thats the first thing. And some of them, including the groups, do have money. But your second point is exactly right. The numbers that we saw, both for compensatory damages and punitive damages,nd sent a very clear message loud and clear throughout the country that this conductry will not be tolerated and its clear that our jurors felt very strongly and they levied a judgment for multiple millions of dollars. Theyio assessed each defendant the case. Every single defendant that we brought this case against was foundwa to be liable and they we found to be liable for compensatory and punitive damages. The entire point of punitive damages is to send a message not just to these defendants but well beyond to anybody who thinks they can do this. And, you know, roberta, again, when you and i talked in 2017 about this particular case you were pretty confident that the result that we found out about this year was going to happen and you told me, quote, we have a sense of evidence before what happened of their planning of theha events that happened and you went on to say, and then we have a sense of evidence afterwards bragging about what they did and taking delight in the fact that someone was killed and that people were hurt. When the case was when you were arguing the case before a jury, how was the evidence how was the evidence received, do you think . So the evidence in that case as i previewed, may be perhaps over confidently four years ago, jonathan, though i think it turned out okay, is pretty extreme stuff. Its actually pretty atrocious. I think i said in my closing that i dont think the jurors had ever heard so many times about the book mine kampf or that they would hear so much. One of the atrocities was to try to desensitize the jurors. So, for example, the word Kike Directed at jews is a word you heard over and over and over again in the courtroom. They said the reason they did that was because they wanted to desensitize people to make it normal to use the word kike. The jurors saw through it. The verdicts that they reached, as karen said, spoke loud and clear about what they felt about each of the defendants. I wore this jewish star the entire time we were in the courtroom so w they knew at lea who i was and who i am. And i think that that doesnt work. I think they sent a message not only about what happened in charlottesville but as karen said, that promoting violence and engaging in violence based on hateful, atrocious beliefs about hitler or africanAmerican People or they would talk about reenslaving africanAmerican People, there was a horrific image we used called i hate to say it aloud. It was basically a tote bag for carrying an africanamerican in. That kind of imagery, despite their strategy, really resounded with the jury and they realized what we were talking about was very serious stuff, very hatefu stuff and stuff that is fundment a l i believe, antiamerican. Last question to you, karen. I dont know if there are any plans to bring other lawsuits like this, but are there any . Yeah. So i think this is just the beginning of these kinds of lawsuits when this conduct occurs. I think our case hassett an incredibly hopeful precedent. I think in our own case we have the best of all worlds. We are able to keep these defendants in litigation if we so choose under the claims we brought while simultaneously to prove a conspiracy for racially motivatedac violence and i thin we exposed their tactics. In closing i said to the jury, dont let this desensitize you. We lived in a bubble of hate and violence for four weeks all together and you feel yourself becoming desensitized, becoming numb to it. Mi right. And we said to the jury, dont let that happen to you. We would say to the country the same thing, dont become desensitized. Racially motivated violence has no place and under our laws in this country, we can go after it and we can prestrength. Karen dunn, roberta cap lain, thank you for coming to The Sunday Show and congratulations on a very worthy verdict. Thank you very, very much. Thank you so much. Y the charlottesville case, the arbery case and Rittenhouse Trial have similar themes. What happens when black people make the same claim . Plus, my allstar Panel Including congresswoman Maxine Waters ready to sound off to the latest news and the other sunday shows. Dont want to miss it. Ovens that flip up and away, grills that bring outdoor flavors indoors, and blenders that spin up healthy eating. Ninja foodi, be proud of what you make. New vicks convenience pack. Dayquil severe for you. And daily vicks super c for me. Vicks super c is a daily supplement with vitamin c and b vitamins to help energize and replenish. Dayquil severe is a max strength daytime, coughing, power through your day, medicine. New from vicks. Wayfairs Cyber Monday Sale is on now score unbelievable savings with our biggest sale ever like Ge Appliances up to 40 off rugs up to 80 off and lighting up to 65 off. Plus get bonus savings with a wayfair credit card and Free Shipping on thousands of products. Dont miss our cyber monday happening now through november 29th. Only at wayfair. Com. Deon, hand it over. Now how does that make you feel . 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They will be on trial for federal Hate Crime Charges in early february for Killing Arbery because of his race and color. The killers were held accountable in this case, but it has sparked important discussions about race, justice and equal treatment under the law. Take a look at how police approached Travis Mcmichael in the aftermath of the shooting of arbery. We are going to take your clothes. Were going to let you go home. Youre okay, sir. Such concern, such compassion for a man who just murdered someone. Would they have treated a black man the same way . Thats a rhetorical question. The more important question is this, at what point do black people get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to selfdefense . Joining me now, msnbc real analyst paul butler, author of chokehold. Brittney cooper. And the reverend al sharp ton. Lets go around the horn here on that question. At what point do we get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to selfdefense or is that just a pipe dream . Paul, ill start with you. Jonathan, selfdefense laws in the United States are about toxic white masculine knit at this. And this Old School View of men dont run, they fight, that means white men. Its more important to be macho than preserve life. We know when a white person is victimized, in most cases its another white person who is responsible. Theres in the a whole lot of talk about white on white crime, but its real. The data tells us selfdefense works much better for white men when they have killed a black man than the other way around. A blan man may get the benefit of selfdefense if the victim is another black man but not when his victim is white. Brittney cooper . We have a long history. The Winchester Rifle should have a place in every black home. Before king became a nonviolence guru his home was loaded down with guns. I come from a part of louisiana that is famous for the Deacons For Defense who in the mid 1960s took their guns and stood up to the klan precisely because the law would not protect black folks. I dont know how we balance this to a notion of nonviolence and a belief in the rule of law and a belief in democracy and an increasingly radicalized right and people who have bought guns at record levels during the Trump Administration and over the last couple of years. And so, no, the law does not typically stand for our right to defend ourselves, but you also have the very pressing issue that when folks who are who dont believe in your right to life or the value of your life are also heavily armed and have a radical view about White Supremacy and about the subjew gigs of black people, then weve got to begin to ask serious questions about what position does that put black people in and is there a way for us to think about what it means to defend ourselves and our communities without being restyled as the violent aggressive terrorist. Brittney, the run on guns, you can go back to the beginning of the Obama Administration when people were freaked out after they thought the Obama Administration was going to go after their guns. Reverend sharpton, you have been at the center of pretty much every racial incident where an unarmed or unarmed africanamerican has been hurt or killed. Youve been with their families. I would love your perspective on this question about whether or when selfdefense is something that could be utilized by africanamericans. I think you must deal with the fact that the law is based on the premise that blacks were not even equal or human, and when youre dealing with the fact that you have people that feel, as in the arbery trial, that just the presence of nonviolent ministers with bibles was intimidating or that a victim had long, dirty toenails, before you can get to selfdefense, you can get to we are equally looked upon by the law as human beings. They tried to paint in many of these cases that clearly because they were black you cannot apply the law the same way because blacks in and of themselves are not animalistic or less inhuman and are not in the definition of are you going to deal with selfdefense, you cannot ascribe the same thing to them that you do to others. I think the underlying racism has to be addressed and the law must have that in mind as we get to the law of selfdefense. So the assumption of selfdefense is never there for blacks because the assumption of equality is never there for blacks and thats what were wrestling with. When you can stand up in 2021 and talk about a black man who was killed had dirty, long toenails in front of a jury, when you can stand up in 21 say i do not want anymore black pastors that will intimidate the jury, that is the basis of why the law does not work because we have people who believe blacks are less than humans and should not have the same interpretation of law for them as would other people. Im glad you brought that up, reverend. I was going to ask paul about that. Let me have you listen, rev, to what kevin goff, the attorney for William Hrodey Bryant had to say after the verdict about what was going on outside the courtroom. Listen. Youve seen the efforts in the case to try and contain the carnival like atmosphere outside the courthouse and, you know, thats pretty rough. Youve got you guys doing your job and other people doing their jobs and, you know, this is america. It aint easy. Youve got you want freedom, youve got to work at it. And just to remind the audience, im sure they recognized that guy. Hes the same one who said that he called for a mistrial and had railed against the black ministers, the black pastors who were sitting in the gallery, you were among those, rev. Your response to William Hrodey Bryants attorney there. The use of carnival. We were having prayer vigils. You had some people protesting and you had media. When we have a gathering its a carnival. Were like elephants jumping through a fire hoop at a circus, and i think that this, again, is intentional wording to give the kind of signals they want to the public. If we were to calling white Evangelical Ministers a carnival or a circus, we would be ridiculed or dismissed as saying something bigoted, biased and desicable. To dismiss pastors who are having prayers with a grieving mother as a carnival gives you the kind of mentality were facing. Paul, i want to pick up on revs comments about the law. This is what i was focused on, particularly after the Rittenhouse Trial. I said on pbs that night that reading the Wisconsin Law as contradictory as it seemed, reading the Wisconsin Law, if i were on that jury and was instructed to follow the law, i would have been hardpressed to find rittenhouse guilty in that case because of the way the law is written. Should we really be looking to the longterm effort of changing legislatures so that folks can get in there and rewrite the laws so that there really is equal justice under law . Its a great point, jonathan. You have to look at who is the aggressor. Even when people of color are victims, we are stereo typed as aggressive and threatening. In the georgia case, Travis Mcmichael said mr. Arbery ran towards him like a running back. He was so aggressive he tried to attack their pickup trucks. Now thank God The Georgia Jury did not buy these racist tropes but so many jurors do. We now live in an era where we have Armed Vigilantes Protesting Black Lives matter protests. We have to be concerned about what the Rittenhouse Verdict expresses, whether it emboldens white men who want to take the law into their own hands, who want to bring guns to patrol Racial Justice protests. Brittney cooper, you have the last word. Whatever thought you have. Go. The thing is, ive been reflecting on the history of this moment. Lets not forget the black Panther Partys name was the black Panther Party for protest. That tells us something about the way black people have been thinking for many, many decades, about what it means to have to protect ourselves. Why do we live in a country that does not see any duty to black folks to protect us . We relied on black voters to turn this country to the left so we could survive a pan przemek, put a liberal government in the white house. But were still back to the 1920s discussions of taking a jog in the neighborhood, going out to peacefully protest. And let us also not forget that we are just about ten years out from the murder of Trayvon Martin who was on the other side of a defense about wherein his killer said he was defending himself after he clearly provoked the attack. So we are in a moment of great reckoning in this country about whether or not the country and our system of laws sees a duty to protect black life. The thing that makes us all feel disheartened. We know the resounding answer is no precisely because of the tops si turfy decisions. Rittenhouse gets off. Arberys killers dont get off. The country does not know which watt the wind is blowing and take a firm stance and say you cannot attack people as they are defending black lives, standing black lives, for simply being black people moving about the world and living and that is the concern that should concern us all. Amen, amen. Reverend sharpton, reverend brittney cooper, paul butler, thank you all very, very much for coming back to The Sunday Show. Its time for your moment of maxine with none other than congresswoman Maxine Waters. Well talk about gop crazy much and much more. Dont want to miss this. Nced healing ointment. Restore healthy skin, with no sticky feeling. Gold bond. Champion your skin. Its a most unusual day feel like throwing my worries away as an old nativeborn californian would say its a most unusual day its a most unusual sky not a sign of a cloud passing by if my heart wont behave in the usual way experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list event. 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That kind of nonsense may be why wanna be speaker Kevin Mccarthy says greene and nully censured paul gosar could be reinstated if republicans win the house. Meanwhile, mccarthy is hinting republicans may take away Committee Seats from democrats who dared to speak truth to the gops crazy caucus, including my next guest. You can hear her joining me now for your moment of maxine. Congresswoman Maxine Waters, chair of the House Financial Services committee. And yes. Proud californian. Yes. Thank you so much for coming back to The Sunday Show. And being on set. Im so delighted to be here. So happy youre in california. Thank you. Your reaction from what you heard from Marjorie Taylor greene and this threat from House Minority leader Kevin Mccarthy that if they retake the house, youre going to be removed from Financial Services. Well, you know, hes in a terrible situation over there. As a matter of fact, you heard the threat from Marjorie Taylor greene that he would not be speaker because he had not supported trump in the way he should have done. He needs to come back. He needs to point to something. Theyve tried to censure me. Im not surprised at all but as has been said so many times, i guess now hes being jammed by the crazy caucus and so now Maxine Waters is a target, but thats okay. Ive been there before and hell never win against me. Lets have a listen to Minority Leader Kevin Mccarthy, what he had to say during the gosar censure vote. Okay. I listened to the speaker talk about the highest standards. Madam speaker, when a democratic chair woman flew To Minneapolis and told an angry crowd during the trial to stay on the streets. Get more active. Get more confrontational, weve got to make sure they know we mean business. That high standard, the democrats refused to take action. Part of the reason why youre giggling is because i interviewed you after you spoke in minneapolis. Yes. This was during the Derek Chauvin trial. Thats right. It was clear to anybody with ears and who understands your history that when you were talking about confrontation, it was on the streets demanding justice. Thats right. When you hear the Minority Leader, another californian, by the way, screeching, because thats what he was doing about you. Thats right. Your reaction to him and what he says about you. Well, you know, i think first of all they dont have any good information. They dont care. They would like to make me, you know, the point of violence. Anybody that listened to what i had to say knew that, yes, i support protests. Yes, i support freedom of speech. Yes, confrontation is one of the tactics that was taught by Martin Luther king to deal with racism, to deal with discrimination, and so im not worried about what he has to say. Hes trying to make up a story to say that they have, you know, Maxine Waters who is preaching violence and this somehow will give them the opportunity to say that democrats are being not being equal in the way this they deal with the violence. When they have violence. Its fronting the system. This gold medal or whatever it is that should be awarded to him, i think thats so ridiculous but that is typical of who she is and how she acts and what she will say. She has no respect for anything, anybody, the constitution, the congress of the United States so we can expect anything from this crazy woman. Does she add ive been talking about the atmosphere of menace that is there on the hill. Yes. Is she the active driver of it, or is it Marjorie Taylor greene, Lauren Bobert or others . She is in the leadership of it. She has no committees. Shes been stripped of her committees because of her outrageousness. She walks around the floor with her jeans on sometimes, with a telephone in her back pocket like you see some of the street guys do and she outbursts oftentimes and so shes the leader of the outrageousness, and theres several of them including bobert and others. Just on this point of jeans on the house floor. Does that Break Decorum . Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Youre talking about she is not respecting the rules of the house or the decorum of the house. Thats right. And they have to go on the floor and ask her to get off and to go change her clothes and so this is how she acts. Weve got so much more to talk about and i am thrilled that you are going to stick around for the rest of these discussions. Coming up, my Panel Including Congresswoman Waters whos sticking with us will react to the latest news on this sunday soundoff. Keep it right here. Right, girl . Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. [female narrator] they line up by the thousands. 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Before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection, liver or kidney problems, are or plan to become pregnant, or are breastfeeding. For more information about side effects talk to your doctor. Be in your moment. Ask your doctor about ibrance. Most Bladder Leak Pads were similar. Until always discreet invented a pad that protects differently. With two rapiddry layers. For strong protection, thats always discreet. Question your protection. Try always discreet. Colorado Congresswoman Lauren Boebert apologized. She suggested i cant read this it makes me so mad and suggesting she was mistaken from a Suicide Bomber in the capitol. Congresswoman criticized and said they were made up and bigoted and is calling on house leadership to talk action against boebert. Kevin mccarthy said he is working to facilitate a meeting between the two congress women. Notably what he did not say is boeberts comments were wrong. Chair of the House Finance committee Maxine Waters and sophia nelson. Dean, i am coming to you first. I know how Congresswoman Waters feels about this. We talked about this a moment ago. Dean, lauren boebert. Congresswoman ilhan omar, what in the entire what is going on . Im muslim. Ive been writing about this since 2012. This is not new. Newt gingrich, herman cain. The result was hate crimes against our community. Boebert is doing what is a foundational principal which is demonize people at their face because it makes people happy in your base. Boebert has been doing this for months. Shes been calling Rashida Tlaib part of the jihad squad. Were muslims. Were involved in terrorism. Theyre not going to denounce it. This is who the gop is. They embrace bigotry. They use it. They have no policies but make people hate the other and they make some happiness in their base and this is a sad state of where the gop is. Sophia, as someone who is a member of the Republican Party, is dean right . This has been a foundational thing for the Republican Party for a long time. The brand of islamophobia as exhibited by lauren boebert. Jonathan, as the one person on this panel who use today identify as a jack kent republican. Those days are over. Lauren boebert has me concerned. For me as a black woman its something a little bit deeper. Its the way i see our White Sisters talking to sisters of color, particularly in the House Of Representatives. Its a demeaning way. To say she is a jihadist. Thats your colleague. I think Kevin Mccarthy continues to be a spineless i dont have words how disgusted i am. Hes make a deal with the devil. I think were going to a dark place because i think the republicans are going to win big in 2022 actually. They were very successful here in virginia in the last election so i expect more of this, not less of it, and i think facilitating a conversation between boebert and omar at this point is useless because this has happened time and time again. Shes called aoc, presley and talib the jihad squad. Shes not going to stop. Shes very intentional of what shes doing. Lets put up recent sampling of the republicans violent rhetoric. Boebert, Islam Mow Phobic remarks. You have Congressman Gosar and the animae video. Marjorie taylor greene, thats just one of two things. She got up into congresswoman cory bush, who moved her office and congressman yoh hof. Congresswoman waters, since youre the only member of the house on this panel and on the show right now, are the democrats going to hold onto the majority . How likely is it that when were sitting across from each other in 2023 that youre going to be in the minority . Well, were working very hard and we know that they are taking every action they can possibly take to demonize us and speak to their constituency out there. That apology you lewded to. They know what theyre doing. They fire them all up. So the apology means nothing. As a matter of fact, shes gone viral on that accusation. So we are working very hard and we know that weve got to not only tell the people what we have done but how we have done it. This has been a most responsible democratic caucus, for example. The president of the United States has led with build back better. We responded to the pandemic in a fantastic way. All of the stimulus checks that have gone out, the support we gave to the unemployed, the support we gave to Small Businesses and to restaurants and so weve not only had the c. A. R. E. S. Act but the American Rescue plan. Now were making sure we get rid of poverty with children, with having something that was worked on so hard by the members of congress to give this tax credit to families who are getting checks every month. And so weve got to tell the story about what we have done, how we have done it. The American People are going to be able to distinguish between us and them and in the final analysis were going to win. Were going to beat them. We dont take anything for granted. We know that theyre evil. We know that they lie. We know that they dont give a darn about facts and so weve got to overcome that with the truth. Theyre evil . I mean, thats a strong word, congresswoman. Worse than that. Evil. Evil. When you see the kind of attacks that you have talked about already, thats constantly being made by them, thats evil. And i want you to know, im under attack also. They tried to censure me and we beat them back with the majority that we have. And even Marjorie Taylor greene, i believe, has something up to expel me from the congress of the United States. Can you imagine people with this kind of attitude and these kinds of actions and this kind of racism that they display all the time talking about expelling me or anybody else from congress when, in fact, they shouldnt even be there . Because i was just about to say, wait, expel you . Yes. Yes. Given what theyve done . Thats right. Thats right. A lot of nerve. Im going to switch gears, dean and sophia, and talk about the january 6th committee. Yes. The fact that starting tomorrow a whole bunch of depositions are supposed to start happening, starting tomorrow. Yes. November 29th. How likely, dean, ill come to you first on this, how likely is it that were going to see more people defying their subpoenas . Or are we going to see more people coming forward and giving testimony the way theyre supposed to under subpoena . I think youre going to see some. I think its really important that the doj has indicted steve bannon. Sends a very clear message were not playing games. This is a congressional subpoena. Youre going to go to jail potentially if you dont comply with it. I Hope Congress will consider subpoenaing lauren boebart. Today is 1776. 1776 thats code for Violent Revolution to overthrow the government so trump can stay in power. I hope that congress doesnt stop with just some of the proud boys which they are subpoenaing and the oath keepers, but lauren boebart. She tweeted today is 1776 when she knew that was code for Violent Revolution for those on the right. I want that answer. To fee a, less than a minute. What do you think . Jonathan, what im concerned about is our founding principles. Our Founding Fathers gave us three coequal branches of government for a reason. Congress has Oversight Authority and what i do not like, whether its democrat or republican; that the Congress Wont even stand up for itself in this instance and understand that they want the right to issue subpoenas. They want people to comply with congressional oversight. I totally expect more defiance. I totally exmore im not showing up because thats the mood the country is now for a certain portion of us who dont believe they have to comply with congressional oversight. Thats a problem long term for this democracy. 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I remember when you were here thats mommy to unveil them to the world. And all the fun we had last year watch the full story at www. Xfinity. Com sing2 when you diminish, stop or block travel, theres a reason for that. Its to give you time to do that. Dont let this decision that was made about blocking the travel from certain countries go without a positive effect and the positive effect is to get us better prepared to rev up on the vaccination, to be really ready for something that may not actually be a big deal but we want to make sure were prepared for the worst. Growing concerns over the new Omicron Variant has the world on defense. Its not all doom and gloom if we take all precautions we need. My panel is back with me. Congresswoman waters, dean obidiwa. I had dr. Kavita patel on earlier. We were talking about this new variant, omicron. Why she likes the name omicron. She also had Something Else to say that i think was a bit like Smelling Salts for the rest of us when we were talking about these variants. Have a listen. Im actually glad we have this greek Naming System because its so much more than what we were saying before, quote, south african variant. The only reason we know this was in south africa, lets be candid, theyre much better about global viral naming than anywhere including the United States. Were penalizing the people that are doing the job i wish we could do. Right, dean . Such a common sense thing she said, yet it was the first time ive ever heard it said like that as dr. Patel is always want to do. Thats true. I will say when we get to the t variant i hope they name it the trump virus. Then it makes more sense than anything. Imagine if trump was in office right now, what racist term he would use for the term for the virus coming interest south africa . It didnt come from south africa. We need to help them expand their vaccination protocols. President biden acted swiftly, within hours of south African Ministry saying they found a variant there. He banned flights. President biden is doing what he thinks he can do to make it safer. Hes doing it swiftly. I applaud that. You know, dean, to your point about the t variant, i didnt use this sound in the previous block but Stephen Mille because it was Stephen Miller. Im going to read it. I dont want to show it. He said if President Trump was still in office, by the way, wed already have modified vaccines that dealt with the new variants which is a great point. No, its not. Anyway, im just putting that out there. Jonathan, he would have switched freaking believes to start drinking fantastic or drain know at this point. Thats what he would have done. The guy drinking bleach. Change the liquid youre drinking. Try a different cleaner. That would solve it. Come on, dean. Let be fair. He didnt say drink bleach, he said inject it. Senator bourasso was on fox talking about build back better. Have a listen. I view this as a back breaking bill for the country with the kind of expenses, the spending, the adding to the debt, the inflation, the taxes that are going to hit the American People. And, you know, for joe biden to say we have to spend even more money on top of inflation, to me this is alice in wonderland logic. Hes the mad hatter out here. Well, let me just say this, the republicans favor the rich. They gave big tax credits under trump and so now were stimulating the economy. As a matter of fact, one of the bills that republicans really love is what were doing for infrastructure where we have at least seven republicans join us and defy the leadership because they know how important it is to create jobs, to have contracts. Weve done an excellent job with build back better. Were doing an excellent job with taking care of the failing bridges and Water Systems that need repair in this country. This is stimulating work for the economy. This inflation that were experiencing is transitory. It is not going to be here long. And the president is responding to that already. Hes going to go and make sure that we go to our reserves and make sure we cause the use of those reserves so that the cost of gasoline can be reduced. He responds very quickly. Hes doing a great job. Build back better is absolutely fantastic. Its been good for the country and we are going to keep going. So you can say build back better is good for the country because youre a member of the House Of Representatives. Yes. The House Of Representatives passed it. Thats right. And sent it over to the senate. Yes. But you and i both know that when build back better comes back to the house from the senate, it might be the shadow of its former self. Do you have a red line . Are there provisions in the build back better act that you voted for that was sent to the senate that if it does not come back f those things do not come back to the house, that you could see yourself not voting for build back . This is a very important bill with very important things in the bill. For example, i as a chair of the Financial Services committee literally organize 1. 50 to 70 billion dialing with housing, people paying 50 of their income for rent. Ive dealt with not only Rental Assistance but putting money into firsttime home buyers, millennials, First Generation Home buyers. 10 billion into that. 25 billion into Rental Assistance. This is very important to me. I know its very important. If it doesnt come back from the senate. If all of those things are stripped out of the bill that comes back to the house, would you still vote for build back better . Just give me yes or no . Well, i want to just tell you this, that there are certain things that go beyond what i could accept. Im going to do everything that i can to look at what has been done and whether or not theyre equal compromises across the board, but i will reject some things that may happen on the senate side in stripping that bill, yes. Sofia, this is going to be a hard switch of gears here because i want to have you listen to governor reaves, mississippi, and what he had to say on Meet The Press about the arguments that are going to happen before the Supreme Court. If you read the constitution, there is nowhere in the constitution that prohibits individual states, states like mississippi, to limit access to abortion and the far left loves to scream my body my choice and what i would submit to you, chuck, is they absolutely ignore the fact that in getting an abortion there is an actual killing of an innocent unborn child. Sofia. Okay. Well, legally speaking, he has no idea what hes talking about. The reality is is that roe versus wade is the governing law of this nation right now. Abortion is allowed. It is a federal law which takes precedent over and preempts state law, which is why i was shocked to see the direction that the court has been moving towards because if you believe in Super Precedents like brown versus the board of education, roe versus wade, miranda, loving versus virginia, if you settle the law, you dont go back and keep tinkering for it. Im pro life personally, but the Law Of The Land is roe versus wade so states do not have the right to directly contravene the law that the federal government and the Supreme Court hassett ld as the precedent. Its a basic concept that they teach you in law school. Its not so hard. Sophia, im glad you pointed out you are pro life. There is a 63 conservative majority filled with three justices appointed by donald trump who explicitly said i am only going to nominate people to the court who will do away with roe v. Wade. How do you how does that fly to your mind being pro life and yet still possibly viewing that the court shouldnt do what they were sent to do given this majority . Listen, i may be pro life but im more pro america and pro freedom. Whats good for sofia nelson doesnt have to be good for another woman to make a choice for me. For me, roberts and kavanaugh are going to be the justices have you to watch. Theyre probably your swing votes. I think Amy Coney Barrett has been very interesting in some of her questioning on this case and others. Im not sure where she comes down, but i think kavanaugh and roberts probably make this thing a 54 and roe versus wade probably survives. I dont think mississippi law is what they will eventually pin the decision of the court on. Roe is a precedent of over 50 years. At the end of the day i would be surprised. Stare decisis is something we stand on. Thank you all very much for coming to The Sunday Show. Up next, what democrats can learn from a littlenelson, cong Maxine Waters, thank you so much. Coming up what democrats can learn from a little girl. Can learn from a little girl do i need to pretreat my laundry . Nope with tide pods, you dont need to worry. The pretreaters are built in. Tide pods dissolve even when the water is freezing. Nice if its got to be clean, its got to be tide. The snapshot app from progressive rewards you for driving safe and driving less. Okay, what message did you hear this time . Safe drivers can save using snapshot . Whats snapshot . What the commercial was about. I tune commercials out. Me too. Theyre always like blah, blah blah. Tell me about it. Im going to a Silent Retreat next weekend. My niece got kicked out of one of those. For talking . Grand larceny. How about we get back to the savings . [ everyone agreeing ] how a out we get back to the savings . When the chapstick goes on. Its on. Get yours on at chapstick. Com cases of anxiety in young adults are rising as experts warn of the effects on wellbeing caused by the pandemic. My hygienist cleans with a round head. So does my oralb my hygienist personalizes my cleaning. So does my oralb oralb delivers the wow of a professional clean feel every day. As weve learned with the final passage of the bipartisan Infrastructure Bill now law, governing is hard. As were going to be reminded during the continued and tortuous negotiations over the build back better act, legislating is hard, its chaotic, its messy. Just before thanksgiving i saw a tiktok video posted on twitter that illustrates this with hilarious clarity. If only real life legislating were this adorable. In the cup. Yay [ laughter ] ill get it. [ laughter ] when it comes to the build back better act, the lesson here for democrats is simple. Dont give up. Keep your eyes on the prize. Most importantly, get the juice in the glass. Im Jonathan Capehart. This has been The Sunday Show. 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S. , which is why it is more important than ever to get vaccinated and get your booster shot. Even when you have variants of concern, you do well against them. It may not be as good as protecting against initial infection, but it has a very important impact on diminishing the likelihood that youre going to get a severe outcome from it. If youre not vaccinated, get vaccinated. If youre fully vaccinated,