that will always be associated with rose, thank you for being a friend. a new hour of "american voices" begins right now. thanks for being with us. i'm alicia alicia. this hour, the verdict and the aftermath. what the kyle rittenhouse case reveals about the rule of law and accountability in america. plus, where we go from here, michael tubs, one of the youngest mayors of any major american city weighs in and tells us about his new book detailing his life story with the intersection of politics, race, and proof of what is possible. also ahead, the disconnect between the help democrats are securing for the american people and polling on how the american people view their job performance. when it comes to the party's promises on immigration, reforms have passed the house. we preview what could happen next in the senate. let's begin this hour with the ongoing fallout from the kyle rittenhouse trial. found not guilty on all counts. it is a revealing conclusion to a baffling trial and raises big questions about our justice system and laws regarding self-defense in a country where there are more guns than humans. our country's country culture used to preach gun ownership came with responsibility. no doubt it does. but in the wake of friday's verdict, some argue gun ownership comes with a get out of jail free card if you are white and claim self-defense. it certainly worked for kyle rittenhouse whose jury let him walk free, despite evidence showing him killing two men. in a piece for nbc their next an assistant law professor for the university of wisconsin puts it this way. quote, now that a jury in kenosha found rittenhouse justified, we're contending with a view of self-defense that transforms an active shooter into a privileged actor. we have normalized the absurd. this as we wait for conclusion in the ahmaud arbery murder trial in brunswick, georgia. much like the rittenhouse case, the defense is testing the limits of self-defense. arbery was shot and killed after a confrontation with a group of white men who claim they thought he might be responsible for recent break-ins in the neighborhood. this week in court, one of the defendants admitted arbery never threatened him before that. >> he did not threaten me verbally. >> all right. didn't brandish any weapons? >> no, ma'am. >> didn't pull out any guns. no, ma'am. >> didn't pull out any knife. >> no, ma'am, >> never reached for anything, did he? >> no. >> he just ran? >> yes, he was just running. >> he was just running. running away from men armed with guns. because arbery fought back for his life, defendant travis mcmichael now claims self-defense, which leads us to a point many are making now, the double standard with self-defense in america. the numbers speak volumes as "new york" magazine reports, if america permissive self-defense and abundant guns open a zone of killing, the precise borders of the rotator are shaped by white supremacy. in a 2013 study of u.s. homicides, the urban institute found that killings involving a white perpetrator and a black victim are 281% more likely to be ruled justified than kwasz a white perpetrator and white victim. joining us now, judy brown, former mayor of stockton, california, michael tubs, and civil rights attorney kristin gibson. new reporting digs into societal bias when it comes to self-defense. it reads, quote, the reasonable fear standard for self-defense has given rise to concerns that it is affected by the same racial bias that permeates the justice system. a mountain of social science research shows that black people, men in particular, more likely to be seen as threatening. how does this highlight the larger inequalities throughout our criminal justice system? >> i think it highlights it perfectly. it talks about why, you know, you have these two major trials that you just pointed out, alicia, going on right now. but at the forefront of both of them, at the core of both of them is that vigilanteism. and understanding that the kyle rittenhouse case -- there were three white victims. but at the core of it was the racial tension behind the shooting of jacob blake, the black man. and so when you're looking at these cases, you know -- and i will say that i think the two cases are very different. i think that the kyle rittenhouse shouldn't be the weather case. i'm glad you brought up arbery because i think when we're talking about the reckoning with vigilanteism and the racial biases and we're talking about the disparities in the justice system, particularly when you have a black victim versus a white victim, then you look at the ahmaud arbery case, which is the bellwether case, because that case really resembles the history that the black community has faced that you have three white men chased down a black men they presumed to be guilty, you know, by them alone, cornered him and killed him. >> this case shines a spotlight so brightly on so many parts of this that are broken. >> that's right, alicia. i think, you know, white aggression has always been protected by self-defense and community defense. whether it is someone who is at a protest -- remember the folks in st. louis who you w.h.o. brought their guns out because protesters walking down the street, whether it is someone jogging through a neighborhood, or it's someone walking home with skittles and an iced tea. white protection gets protected. it also turns out to be all the karens, where people are walking home or sitting at a starbucks, white aggression is protected. and so this privilege permeates our legal system. and then let's add to it a system that has jurors and judges who are from the community and who live with the bias and racism of those communities. and so unfortunately we keep trying to go to an unjust system for justice. and so the work that needs to be done is overhauling the legal system from the laws to the way that we conduct our jury trials. i want to turn to a new piece in the atlantic. he writes, quote, whether it's donald trump justifying his attempts to overturn the 2020 election, republican members of congress threatening their colleagues, or fox news hosts praising rittenhouse for, quote, doing what the government should have done, the desire to kill your components no longer confined to the dark corners of the internet. the principle that canonizes rittenhouse as a saint for defending his city from reuters and the mob that stormed the capitol as martyrs is the principle that the slaughter of the right's enemies is no crime. i think of you, michael, and the fact that you undoubtedly look at these issues as someone who has served as a mayor of a city. what does the rise of this violence, of this vigilanteism -- what position does it put mayors of these towns, local leaders in? >> it puts mayors and leaders in a position to lead. we know we're talking about not a 2021 issue, but 400 plus years of a history of white supremacy, of vigilanteism, of settler clonism violence. as leaders we have to say enough is enough. there's no reason why someone should feel justified walking to a protest with an ak-47 and murdering two people. it goes to teach us what the black lives matter movement was trying to teach us all along, that all lives can't matter until black lives do. in that instance we have two white brothers who are now murdered, one permanently disabled and the killer walks around free. because in this country the legal system has not been just. but the fact the legal system that be mechanism through which caste has been maintained. as i said previously, we have to at the core begin to dismantle and build the country, build the legal system, build the society we all deserve to live in. when we're all safe and able to live to your ripe old age, it starts with leaders not being afraid to speak truth to power and calling out what this is, a continuation of the white supremacy that brought our country to the brink of division during the civil war and brought our country to a brink of a coup just a couple months ago. >> right. kristin, this is why you hear so many people saying the system is not broken, the system is working exactly as intended. you had judge bruce schroeder making several headlines for his antics during the trial. i wonder, that behavior, highly unusual. what does it reveal about the importance of electing state judges? >> well, you know, alicia, you nailed it right on the head. it's about elections, getting out there and voting, increasing the diversity on the bench. and increasing the diversity within law firms in and of itself. you know, a lot of times when they're looking at leaders who can then become judges, they look at the law firms. they look at the leadership amongst the law firms. and if we don't have leadership function law firms that we look to to fill our judicial positions, our diversity pool is decreased. so we're talking about increasing diversity amongst the law firms, as well as all across the bench. and that's by giving opportunities to diverse members, but also making sure that the law firms as well as judicial positions retain them as well. it all goes to diversity. >> amber ruffin had this to say after the verdict, take a listen. >> it's not okay for the judicial system to be blatantly and obviously stacked against people of color. it's not okay for their to be an entirely different set of rules for white people. white people have been getting away with murder since time began. i don't care about that. i care about you. and i can't believe i have to say this, but you matter. you matter. every time one of these verdicts come out, it's easy to think you don't, but you do. you matter. >> judith, this is part of the point, which is these efforts are not meant not only intimidate, they are meant to distract, they are meant to deflate, and they're also meant to change the contours of what protests looks like for this country. for someone who's been a part of this efforts, what do you say about the necessity that they continue on in this fight? >> you know, alicia, it's hard because people are traumatized by this unjust system time and time again. but i'll tell you this. we have been in this fight since the beginning of this country, since the col lonization of this country, since black people landed on this land, we have fought back. and we have made progress, and we have to keep and continue on, because our freedom is not here yet, but our freedom has only come because we have continued to fight. and so we can't retire, we can't be scared. we have to keep pressing on. >> judith, kristin, thank you both so much. michael, you are sticking with us because -- next, we take a look at his new book offering new perspective about race, racism, poverty, and politics. later this hour, infrastructure reform now law in the house has sent the president's social spending bill to the senate. victories are high, popularity is low. the disconnect with dems. first to richard lui tracking breaking news out of atlanta. >> alicia, flights and operations resuming slowly at heartsfield jackson international airport after a security scare today. a gun accidentally firing at a security checkpoint there. passengers and employees nearby panicking. the country's busiest airport and that check-in line very large. but people on the ground saying they found a probated item going through a checkpoint x-ray. the tsa agent told the passenger to not touch anything during the search. then the passenger, quote, lunged at the bag, grabbed the gun. the gun went off and the passenger ran out of the airport. here's what one eyewitness told us. >> absolute disbelief. i mean, you hear about it and you read about it, but just being in the middle of it, it's something that i thought i'd never experience in my lifetime. >> the tsa says three people sustained nonlife-threatening injuries. the agency putting out a statement that read, in part, firearms, particularly loaded firearms introduced an unnecessary risk at checkpoints v no place in the passenger cabin of an airplane and represent a very costly mistake for passengers who attempt to board a flight with them . that incident briefly halted departures from the airport. officials gave the all-clear just before 3:30 p.m. no reports of arrests so far. more voices right after this. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? 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(gasps) ♪ did it work? only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ spider-man no way home in theaters december 17th [ sneeze ] ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ are you ok? oh, it's just a cold. if you have high blood pressure, a cold is not just a cold. unlike other cold medicines, coricidin provides powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure be there for life's best moments with coricidin. now in sugar free liquid. wayfair's black friday sale is on now! score unbelievable savings with our biggest sale ever! like ge appliances up to 40% off rugs up to 80% off and lighting up to 65% off. plus get bonus savings with a wayfair credit card and free shipping on thousands of products. don't miss our black friday happening now through november 27th. only at wayfair.com. nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like: try hypnosis... or... quit cold turkey. kidding me?! instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette with xfinity home, you can keep your home and everything in it more protected. i can wrangle all my deliveries. thanks, hoss! and i help walk the dog from wherever. *door unlocks* ♪ ♪ well, i can bust curfew-breakers in an instant. well, you all have xfinity home, with cameras to home security monitored by the pros. *laughs* learn more about home security or get our self-monitored solution starting at just $10 per month. in 2016, voters in stockton, california, elected the city's first black mayor, michael tubbs, just 26 years old at the time, make history, becoming the youngest person to serve as a mayor of a major city in the united states. he's now the author of the new book "the deeper the roots: a memoir of hope and home." he's back to discuss his unlikely journey into politics. mieshlgs my friend, you're very young to write a memoir. you have been telling your story since the you arrived on the scene. what about it did you want to set straight? >> so much of my story had been told through me through reporters or documentaries, and i felt it was important to give my perspective of what it was like to grow up in poverty in a place like stockton. what is it like to be raised by three amazing women? what was it like to go from south stockton to stanford and what it was like to be the first black mayor. even before that, a 22-year-old council member during the time of black lives matter, during the time of donald trump as president and how did i navigate those interactions and contradictions. as a nerd, i remember reading the memory wars about the transition from youth to adulthood. >> all my favorite people are nerds. the book reads as a tribute to the black women in your life. it was by far my favorite part of the book, you talking about your three moms, your mom, grandmother, and aunt. it was not lost how much that mirrored your wife's book about the three mothers of the civil rights movement. i love that tie-in. it's like if you were completely symbiotic. how did their life experiences, those three women, help shape both your identity and your decision to get into politics? >> their life experience has infused me with the values that guide me today. they taught me about determination and self-determination. they taught me about responding to adversity and watching how they struggled gave me my policy perspective. watching my mom working hard, going to check-cashing places, never getting her nails done, and struggling to pay the bills is what gave me the passion to get the guaranteed income work. stressed education and providing educational opportunities for me and my sibling made me think of education as the way out and explains why i went to college and why a big part of my time as mayor was spent on expanding educational opportunities. so in every policy i discuss, i try to center my mom, aunt, and grandmother and people like them and how i can help them do what they're doing in terms of raising families, providing for children, and helping to create the world we deserve to live in. >> when you talk about being a nerd and loving memory wars, i think about a kid going to the library and being able to read this book, part of what i think is really helpful is, it's not just a series of successes. in fact, you write in great detail about your election defeat in 2020. in the book you write, quote, i was the youngest mayor and now i was the youngest ex-mayor. yes, i lost, but not because nothing changed nor because things were worse, nor because i changed. i lost because i had shown what was possible and because progress comes at a price. i was proud of having made people so uncomfortable that they launched a four-year-long disinformation campaign against me, saddling me with every anti-black trope, that i was lazy, i was stealing money from the city, i was a crook, and i was a criminal. i was and am none of those things. i was effective, i was bold, i was in love with possibility, and i remain those things. that backlash to progress is now popping up in so many forms across this country, michael. how do progressives counter these attacks while they are fighting for social change? >> i think a big part of it is knowing that these attacks are coming. i didn't understand. i thought everyone was happy with scholarships or everyone was happy with homicides being reduced. i didn't spend enough time thinking about, okay, who will be upset with that? i think the second thing is, we get so focused on governing and doing, but governing fundamentally is about relationships. we have to make sure we're talking to our people because they might not feel the direct impact of the great work we're doing, so explaining. i'm not a facebook fan, but that's where people are. we have to hold them accountable to communicate to people because there's so much disinformation out there. people are scared, stressed, and tired, and people aren't going to do the research you would expect them to do. we have to do a better job of saying this is what we're doing and this is why it's good and this is how it's getting better. that's one of the things i should have done better while i was mayor. >> you know, i've watched your ascent and i cannot wait to watch what it is you do next. the former mayor of stockton, california, michael tubbs, thank you so much of his new book is out now. still ahead for us this saturday, biden's week of big wins, will they give his party a leg up in the midterms? we'll take a look at what democrats are already doing to reform u.s. immigration policy, including why some advocates say even more is needed. you're watching "american voices." i thought i was managing my moderate to severe crohn's disease. then i realized something was missing... ...me. my symptoms were keeping me from being there for her. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is the #1 prescribed biologic for people with crohn's disease. humira helps people achieve remission that can last. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. learn how abbvie could help you save on humira. pack your bags and cashback. earn 5% on travel purchased through chase with chase freedom unlimited. you do this for everyone? i try. hm... excuse me, ma'am! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. wondering what actually goes into your multi-vitamin. at new chapter. its innovation organic ingredients and fermentation. fermentation? yes, formulated to help your body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness well done. president biden turned 79 today and he's got legislative wins to help celebrate. this past monday he signed the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill into law, ensuring clean water and high-speed internet for all americans, the largest investment ever in public transportation and electric vehicles. friday, after months of negotiating, the house passed biden's build back better act. it includes universal pre-k, paid family leave, a cap on medicare costs and immigration reforms. all of it accomplished by democrats, no help from republicans. instead of working with dems to make all of that possible for the american people, minority leader kevin mccarthy decided to do whatever he could to derail the bill's passage. how? by giving a record-breaking nearly nine-hour floor speech, among the longest and arguably most rambling recitals in history. >> they're big carrots and they chop them and charge you more and you buy them. >> however, mat schlapp did something this week to own the libs. he's officially banned the muppets from attending c pack. joining me now, debbie garcelle powell of florida, and congressional correspondent nichols wu. the president has shrugged at comparisons to fdr, but here's a memorable moment this week from the house floor. take a listen. >> just a few weeks ago, congresswoman abigail stanberger said nobody elected joe biden to be fdr. >> i did! >> nichols, do biden's achievements in his first 11 months amount to a new deal? when you talk to the white house, do they plan to lean into that sense of vision? >> it's certainly something democrats are talking up right now. i mean, being in the house chamber that evening, you could feel the energy from house democrats, as sleep deprived as they were. they saw this as a legacy-defining achievement. the question is whether or not this will be something that will stand the test of history the way the new deal did at the depths of one of the worst crisis crises in national history. let's see if the american people end up giving president biden as much credit for this achievement. for that matter, the line from the white house and democrats on this is now that they've done this, they just need to sell it to the american people. what i heard from democrats on the hill and elsewhere, that's the ball game here. if the american people know what's in this whole package, then they'll like it. >> debbie, that is the whole ball game. that is a big ball game. you have been on all sides of this. you have done the legislating. that is hard work. and then there's the work of going out and selling it. you think of something like obamacare which later became very popular. how do democrats ensure that they connect the dots for voters right now? >> yeah, alicia, that's a great point. let me just say that we need president biden to go all over the united states: i would love to see him come down to south florida to sell floridians the investments that he's making to finally tackle our infrastructure, which is crumbling. he is putting people back to work, people that don't need a college degree, good-paying jobs. the build back better bill that was just passed on the house floor yesterday, which is very exciting to see, the cost of child care is going to go down. the cost of prescription drug prices is going on down. these are things that americans have been looking for that they've been waiting for more than a decade. and i think it's important also to draw the contrast that this was a plan, an economic plan, a combined plan by biden and the democrats. yes, the infrastructure bill was passed in a bipartisan fashion, but republicans overwhelmingly have tried to obstruct any progress. and we need to draw that contrast by being present. it can't just be by sending emails or social media messages. i expect to see the president all over the united states. president biden, happy birthday. come down here to miami. we need you down here so that you can tell everyone what a great job we're doing as we govern. democrats know how to deliver for the people. >> unfortunately, debbie, there is no greeting card that quite captures the sentiment you just shared, happy birthday, please come down to florida to be on the stump. nichols, this is not done yet. we're not done yet. still has to go through the senate. that is other obvious piece of this. your sense of where this goes from here, the time line on it, and what the sticking points are going to be in the senate. >> there's still a lot more to go here. i mean, this has to go through senate, parts of the bill still have to go through the parliamentarian, the rules referee of the senate. not to mention it has to pass muster with centrist joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. some of the pressure points with the bill are things that could change in a way that could alienate anyone in the democratic party right now, state and local tax deduction, immigration, and potentially paid family leave. all of the things that could change in the senate. if they move too far in one direction, you'll end up losing progressives when it comes back to the house. democrats are really hoping they can get this through by the end of the year, but we'll see what happens on that front. congress will move as fast or as slow as it wants to sometimes. >> that is -- no truer words have ever been said. former congresswoman debbie garcelle powell, thank you. nichols wu, thank you. next, the world's biggest tennis stars demand answers about the whereabouts of peng shuai, and chinese state media only making matters more confusing. plus, why now could be the make or break moment for democrats to make good on their promise to reform our immigration system. stay with us. ♪ i'm a reporter for the new york times. if you just hold it like this. yeah. ♪ i love finding out things that other people don't want me to know. mm-hmm. 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"sesame street" has a new kid on the block who happens to be asian american. a moment of progress that has some republicans outraged. a mom progress that has some republicans outraged. a moment o progress that has some republicans outraged. , a moment progress that has some republicans outraged. hat has soe republicans outraged ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance so they only pay for what they need. (gasps) ♪ did it work? only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ spider-man no way home in theaters december 17th [gaming sounds] [gaming sounds] [gaming sounds] just think, he'll be driving for real soon. every new chevy equinox comes standard with chevy safety assist, including automatic emergency braking. find new peace of mind. find new roads. chevrolet. now you see me. now you don't. now you see me. now you don't. now you see me. now you don't. we see you. so we designed our new no7 pure retinol range for your skin. informed by 15 years of scientific research; and formulated to be gentler to skin. powerfully targeting the appearance of dark spots, wrinkles, and boosting radiance. only from no7. there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems,...and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ask your doctor about once-monthly cabenuva. immigration reform in america. democrats promised action. are they delivering? they're trying despite the revival of old scare tactics by republicans such as paul gosar. here's that excuse in his own words. >> for this cartoon, some in congress suggest i should be punished. i have said decisively, there's no threat in the cartoon other than the threat that immigration poses to our country. >> calling immigrants a threat, nothing new. it's a racist scare tactic exhausted over decades demonizing all who come seeking a better life a trope that's fueled political campaigns. unfortunately propelled policy, focusing on building walls and deportations. the house passing the spending bill, which includes the most extensive reform nshz three decades, allowing over 6 million undocumented people already in the united states up to ten years of work authorization and protection from deportation. now it is up to the senate. of note, the senate parliamentarian has twice rejected similar attempts by democrats to include immigration reform in the infrastructure bill. but even if it passes, immigration advocates say more is still needed. joining me now, erika andiola, chief advocacy officer for raices, and the director of immigration hub, former adviser on immigration to then-senator kamala harris. erica, i think when i describe it as a massive move, you will take issue with that, and i do want to get to that moment. sergio, can you just walk people through the measures that are currently in this bill and the impact they would have, and then from there we'll talk about what needs to be done in addition. >> great. first of all, just really happy to be here and still so excited about this big win of immigration being included in the bill yesterday, the most transformative policy since the new deal under fdr. the immigration provisions in the build back better act would include protections for over 7 million undocumented immigrants and families living in this country. this includes dreamers and farm workers and tps holders and many undocumented immigrants who were essential workers and have been essential workers to help keep our country going during one of our darkest moments these past two years. it would include work permits, protections for deportations and the ability to travel. this is absolutely transformative. and now this battle moves over to the senate, and we fully expect the senate democrats to bring us home. they'll bring this proposal before the senate parliamentarian, and this proposal was designed specifically to meet the senate reconciliation rules and to pass muster with the senate parliamentarian. she rejected two previous proposals on citizenship, and i want to be clear. we will still continue fighting for citizenship. this is a moral issue and this is an issue of justice. and so we must continue to fight for that. and at the same time, we need to move this proposal forward and we need to make sure it is passed into law. >> erica, i think through the list of things that sergio just ticked through, i think it's really easy to get lost in a sea of policy when what we're talking about is someone who has lived here for years to go visit their mom in another country, they can't do that because they don't have the proper paperwork, people who have worked in this country, who have paid taxes in this country, now being able to do that legally and on the books. you know, in some ways, these minor changes that are actually incredibly significant in the life of a person, in the life of a community. even this piece, though, hinges on the senate parliamentarian as sergio said, and your organization has called the role of the parliamentarian into question. tell me why. >> well, you know, we have to put things into context. we have been promised, by we, the immigrant community, my family, my community members who've been undocumented for many, many years. and we have been promised by the democrats that they were going to do this decades ago. we've been fighting for this thing for about ten years, and yet we still don't have it. and so what we want to make sure is that democrats don't hide behind the parliamentarian's ruling to say that they tried and then go empty-handed at the end of the year, at the end of the day. so our message is, listen, you have the tools, you have the majority. it's a slim majority, but it's a slim majority and you have the tools to get it done, so we're not going to accept excuses. they're not going to hide behind the parliamentarian. we could have saved us a lot of trouble and they would have ended the filibuster a while ago, but they haven't. now we're asking them to use what they do have at their hand to get it done. >> are you going to tell me what it would look like not to hide behind the parliamentarian? >> what that looks like is making sure that, you know, at the end of the day there is a way to do this and if it is the vice president, the presiding officer when the bill moves forward, she can say we're going to go ahead and add this, right? and we're going to, you know, not necessarily listen on the recommendation. it's not a ruling. it's a recommendation from the parliamentarian and we're going to do something that's going to help millions and millions. we're asking the vice president to commit to do that and we're asking the senate leadership to commit to getting it done. i'm stow tired of listening to politicians over and over again. when, as you said, these are real livelies. my mom couldn't even go see her own mother when she passed away in mexico and there's millions and millions of people waiting for an opportunity to be able to go back and forth, to be able to live free too, be able to work and that's all we're trying to do and they have another opportunity. they can miss it this time around. >> part of what i found so interesting because i've spoken with both of you many times is to see your two names on a buy line together. as she talks about the vice president, you have worked with the vice president, you have advised the vice president. you have a sense of what she is and isn't willing to do. am when you suggest this is the role she is going to need to play, is this what you think will play out? >> i pleevl that the senate democrats, including the majority leader, including senator durbin and including senator mendez and other champions need to make sure we get to a yes with the senate parliamentarian. the pieces passed by the house are included in the final package that the senate also passes and that is what is signed into law, which includes transformative relief for millions of people. and i believe the vice president wants to see this as well. >> when i think about what representative gosar has said, nothing new, right? nothing we haven't heard before. and it is both meant to rile up their base but it is also meant to scare democrats, who don't want to go home to their district and have to deal with this as an issue. what do you say to those democrats? >> listen, we have lost many opportunities of past immigration reform because democrats are scared. and the fact is that they lost elections, not necessarily because of immigration but because they haven't been able to give the motivations that our communities need to go out. what scares me the most is if we continue to lose elections in the future, we have somebody like trump come back, right? if we have -- we lose the house, if all these things happen, guess who loses the most? communities of color, immigrants and we saw that with the trump administration. we're asking democrats it takes courage but we are asking you to actually keep the promise that you have made. and take the step, right? get the courage. we immigrants have already done so much in this country. for this country and we have showed our own courage. we're asking them to show theirs. >> erica, sergio, thank you both. still to come. they couldn't stand it when big bird got vaccinated and now they're upset over the new muppet on "sesame street." doesn't the gop have real things to worry about? and going to chat with actor, john leguizamo. that and more, minutes away, only on msnbc. minutes away, only on msnbc. re she was. you can always spot a first time gain flings user. ♪ great care starts with understanding... we all have different needs. that's why unitedhealthcare offers more benefits to help more people in more ways. so call us today to get medicare with more. our medicare advantage plans give you zero-dollar copays on tier 1 and mail-order tier 2 prescriptions. you'll also enjoy zero-dollar copays on primary care doctor visits, zero-dollar copays on preventive dental, and free yearly eye exams. so, take a closer look. with unitedhealthcare we'll help you get the care you need. got medicare and medicaid? 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great shirt, by the way, fantastic. and i have to get home so yob can see you interview john leguizamo. >> reporter: and how it shapes conversation and that's what we'll talk about with him tonight. good evening and welcome to ayman. fallout from the kyle rittenhouse verdict. we'll look at what message it sends about white vigil ante justice. plus the white house finally signed the build back better vote, and actor and

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