different picture, a truly alternative reality so intense democrats desire to produce big transformative change for the voters. the democrats can appear from the outside completely consumed by policy differences. democrats, so scarred by four years of norm busting on the other side of the aisle and devoted to restoring our institutions, can same paralyzed around questions like blowing up the filibuster to enact their agenda, out of fear of what republicans will do if they regain control. this wide and widening gulf between how each party functions has produced a split screen moment in american politics that is unprecedented. on the republican side there is fallout today from the censure of arizona congressman paul gosar. he posted a video depicting the murder of his democrat colleague congresswoman ocasio cortez after ted cruz took to social media to accuse liz cheney of having trump derangement syndrome cheney hit back and hard with a response that cuts to the major problem within the republican party right now. that it is completely beholden to the disgraced expresident. listen. >> i think trump broke ted cruz. ted used to say he was a conservative. but now he is so desperate for political approval that he will even advocate, suggestion succession. and i think that a real man would be defending his wife and his father and the constitution. >> we are at the real man stage the republican demise. cheney there referencing the brutal and deeply personal set of attacks that were lobbed by then candidate donald trump against ted cruz until cruz just like the rest of the republican party completely capitulated to donald trump and his whims. >> whatever he wants to say, i actually think he's a very unstable person. his father was with lee harvey oswald prior to oswald's being shot. i mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. >> add to this the nasty attacks by trump on ted cruz's wife, the person he's married to. you would think any one of those attacks would be disqualifying when it comes to going on to win one's political support. but not for ted cruz. instead, ted cruz today is one of the expresident's biggest boosters. and his party, hostage to donald trump and his delusions of a stolen election is forced to twist itself into knots to defend the most extreme trump allies, people like paul gosar who remains so unrepentant about what he did that he retweeted that violent video that gothill him censures after the censure vote in the house. what mccarthy focused on was how much democrats might rue the day. mccarthy said the vote would mean members in influential position would need the position of a majority to keep those positions in the future even though democrats have targeted their colleagues with similarly or metaphorical violent imagery. mccarthy wasn't the only one to preview having so ominous on wednesday. indeed, this has become a growing mainstay of the gop pushback on democratic majorities this year. when republicans are in the majority, where is that going to end? representative schiff roy said. here's what speaker pelosi had to say about the threats by the republicans that they would receive payback. >> the inference that i draw from your question, that we should have not censured mr. goesor for his behavior for fear of something that republicans might do in the unlikely case they might win congress. even if we do, we can't -- i am not exempting that's going to be the case. i am going everything in my power to ensure it isn't. not because of mr. gosar, but because of democracy, whicher undermining every single day. when you see their behavior on the floor they shouldn't have a gavel anywhere near them, ever. >> she has a point. all of this as pelosi and the democrats are doing what they do best, what they believe they were sent to do, govern. house today moving forward with a sweeping and potentially historic bill that is the centerpiece of the biden agenda, a roughly $2 trillion package intended to address the climate crisis and a social safety net. a vote could take place as soon as today. democrats advancing their agenda as republicans accommodate the most extreme members win their party. that's where we start this hour. ashly parker is here, also joining us, jackie alemany and former top state department official rick stengel is here. lets' stick a pin in the clash between biden and ted cruz and go to the biden agenda. jackie, what is the latest. >> we are currently in the house waiting on whether or not the house democrats are going to vote on the build back better resolution, whether it is going to push through and they will be able to go home for the holidays having accomplished something. as you noted there are two parallel realities, universes, going on here right now. while we are scrambling to ask democrats about whether or not especially those six moderate democrats who were potentially holding out as they were waiting for the cbo score, whether or not the estimates lined up with the biden white house had previously estimated with regard to the $1.7 trillion infrastructure package. we have also been scrambling to ask republicans dramatically different questions. it has been quite disorienting actually, asking about cbo scoring, to then rushing to ask republicans about whether or not they are going to disavow their colleague for retweeting and amplifying death threats, and why they won't. liz cheney is one of the rare republicans to actually rebuke paul gosar. and you so her not hold back that fire on ted cruz. but the loudest voices in the room continue to be people like marjorie taylor green. and we have seen silence from republican leadership so far, which really comes across as a direct or tacit support or endorsement of paul gosar's behavior, and the behavior of this faction of the house freedom caucus that is gaining increasing power in the republican conference. >> disorienting is the perfect word for it, ashley. as sit here i have got my colleague garrett haake's he can change with kevin mccarthy, and i have got speaker pelosi's comments on how they are going to sort of communicate about the infrastructure bill. let me start with pelosi. i think jackie is right to sort of hit this -- these sort of two lines of questioning for the two parties. one about extremists within the ranks, and the other about legislation. let me show you speaker pelosi first. >> joe biden is very committed to messaging this. as you see, he's already on the road. been to baltimore, maryland, new hampshire, michigan, just in the last few days, since the bill -- the bif bill was signed. and now to build back better. so i think there is no substitute for the bully pulpit of the president of the united states especially when reinforced by the events we will have throughout the country as well as the mobilization of the grassroots of people who know what this means in their lives. so i think that the shall we say the messaging on it will be immediate, and it will be intense, and it will be eloquent. and it will make the difference. >> that's the speaker talking about the messaging on a, by any analysis transformative piece of legislation one that donald trump sought and failed to achieve for four years. let me show what you the leader of the other party said today to garrett haake. this is where his attention is. >> why is it that the only thing republicans will punish one of their own members are in this congress is speaking out against donald trump. >> how is it -- i don't understand your question. >> the only republican member who has been been in any way punished by the conference this year is liz cheney who lost her role, she lost her role in the republican conference. i know you were there. >> it was an election. she didn't get punished by that. she lost an election. i'm sorry. people go up for election all the time. there is no basis there. >> why do republicans not feel compelled to hold any punishment on any of their members on any of these hands democrats have been so upset about? >> really? let's talk about that since you raised the issue. democrats were upset? were they upset when maxine waters -- >> [ inaudible ] >> thank you for your question. i get to answer it in the manner in which i have the right to. >> kevin mccarthy can't quit lying. he was caught on a hot mic talking to someone at fox news, i can't remember who b the need to get rid of liz cheney. they whipped votes against liz cheney. why not own it if it is so popular? >> well, both parties, if very different ways as jackie said, have different sorts of messaging problems. i don't want to imply that they are created equal. but the democrats have the challenge that, as you said, biden has passed some legislation that is truly transformative, and there is a central irony there. if you look at the polling a lot of his policies and the things he pass ready popular. but he himself, and his presidency, are not doing particularly well in the polls. you showed leader pelosi. she referred to the bif bill. i doesn't have the pocketbook kitchen table buzz that matters to the voters who joe biden said he was elected to serve. we have leader pelosi talking about how they are concerted, what they really need to do is go out and sell this stuff and explain how the things in the bill -- the infrastructure bill thats paed, the covid rescue package that past, the social spending bill that looks like it may pass -- how those are actually impact families. what free pre-k-3 will mean, what new bridges and roads mean. that's their messaging problem. then the republican one is far more simple in some ways but also complicated because when they want to talk about democrats in disarray, that's a favorite republican talking point, they very fairly get asked, you have a member that put out a video that showed him killing a female democrat and attacking the president united states. that's an incredibly hard thing to try to deal with when you fundamentally, as kevin mccarthy so far has refused to condemn that. >> rick i want your thoughts on all this. but i have got something else that happened today that i want to show you. first your thoughts on -- i think jackie and ashley describe the -- sort of the spectrum, right? you have got to cover the challenges for one party that is trying to push through these huge, huge pieces of the biden agenda with a whole lot of success, but nothing is -- you know, it's called sausage making for a reason. then the other side, which is sort of unrepentalant proliferators of violent imagery. >> yes. i mean, you are right to call out the false equivalence of this and the both sides-ism of it. the democrats are trying to govern. there are policy differences which i believe was the phrase you used in the introduction. that's perfectly acceptable in a party. that's what we like about democracy. the other side is a party without any content at all, without any posses. it is the trump's weaponization of grievance has become the politics of vengeance. all they know how to do is punish people, or not punish people that should be punished. that's not a governing party. so it's not a split screen in the sense that's equivalent. i mean the democrats are trying to govern. the irony of this all, as ashley pointed out is that even when you pass something that's transformational voters don't feel it right away. they don't feel it for years. and so, yes, the democrats have to go out and talk about what they did. but unfortunately, voters are not going to feel it necessarily in their pocketbook. they are not going to see the bridges repaired right away. they are not going see those roads fixed. so that's a -- that's a difficult problem? rick, i want to show you something else that happened today. this is a republican senator named john kennedy. >> i don't know whether to call you professor or comrade. >> oh, my goodness. >> senator i'm not a communist. i do not subscribe to that ideology. i could not choose where i was born. i did not -- i do not remember joining any facebook group that subscribes to that ideology. i would never knowingly join any such group. there is no record of me ever actually participating in any marxist or communist discussions of any kind. my family suffered under the communist regime. i grew up without knowing half of my family. my grandmother, herself, escaped death twice under the stalin regime. this is is what is seared in my mind. that's who i am. i remember that history. i came to this country. i'm proud to be an american. >> rick, i want to choose my words carefully because i am sure kennedy will take a victory lap on another channel tonight. this is a disgrace not just to the country, not just to the united states senate. it is a disgrace to the party of ronald reagan who described the united states of america as a shiny city on the hill not because it was bright or shiny but because it was a beakon for people like this biden nominee. what do you do with a party that is at best stupid, at worst, flagrantly racist? >> well, it also just smacks of mccarthyism and the house of un-american activities period, where people for affiliations were called out as being communist. it's just an insulting question on every level, on the political level, on the level of humanity. of course her answer was inspiring. i mean the whole point of our system is that people can escape from authoritarian systems. and the republican party has become the party that supports authoritarian government. it's really -- as you say, ronalds reagan is not just turning over in his grave. he's spinning in his grave. >> jackie it is a window to what you try to convey on this program you say every day. >> we talked about this earlier this week. but the timing is especially unfortunate for republicans that you can directly contrast the outrage you are seeing from the house gop conference over the 13 republicans who voted for policy because, as these republican lawmakers who supported the bipartisan infrastructure bill have said, they are getting millions of dollars to repair bridges and roads for their constituents in their districts and there is no way they could have voted against this infrastructure investment, versus the lack of outrage that you are seeing from the party and from the house gop about paul gosar's tweet. when you put that back to back as i did in my questions to republicans throughout the week several admitted, yes, when you put it that way, it does -- it does not bode well. it doesn't look good for the party. but, look, this is why this is potentially problematic for leader mccarthy. and as he's looking ahead to the house gop potentially taking back the majority next year. being in the mushy middle the way he is, being silent on the extremists in his conference makes it so that people who are a little bit more moderate, the don bacons of the party might not support him either. don bacon told us yesterday that he had questions about mccarthy's leadership that he would like to see mccarthy be more independent of trump and support members of the party who are making decisions based on policy. >> i don't know whether to laugh or cry, ashley, when i hear people say they would like someone to be more independent of the biggest electoral loser in modern american history. the guy lost the majority in the senate. he lost the white house. he turned -- mccarthy is a minority leader. what dot the white house -- i know the white house doesn't have a lot of patience for engaging publicly around any of this. i also know they do watch these symptoms, the president's effort to heal the soul of the country is not making inroads on the right. >> it sure isn't. and not only is it not making inroads. but, if anything, one of the political super powers that president biden had when he came to office was even people, republicans who maybe didn't support him etiologically, he was sort of this unoffensive guy, your unoffensive uncle or grandfather. and now he has lost that, at least among that trump base that you are talking about not making inroads in. and i would point to -- i can't say on air the origin of it, but the let's go brandon chants that started in stadiums and bars and are now being shouted in churches, being sold on shirts, signs, they are sort of in every aspect of civic life. that's a reflection of the fervent anger and animosity that a lot of this country feels towards president biden, which makes what he promised during the campaign, that he could restore bipartisanship and work across the aisle, take the temp down a lot more difficult. >> rick, i know the white house feels like the deliverables speak for them in place where is they are chanting these awful things. that some of those people may get caught up in the frenzy of the moment, but at the ends of the day, they have shots in their arms, they have boosters coming their way, their kids have vaccines. they have money in their paycheck. that it is about outputs, it is about governing for every american, something the last president didn't even pretend to try to do. other than that, what can they do? >> well, once upon a time politics of the thing speaks for itself, res ipso locate for doesn't exist anymore. nothing speaks for itself. when we have politics that devolve into tribalism nothing you see on other side makes an impression at all because believing is seeing. they have a certain attitude that can't be repulsed by fact. in fact, the republican party and trumpism is taking all of these pages out of the authoritarian playbook, custom is basically to say that empirical facts are not real, everything is possible, and nothing is real, as they say in russia. and that's very, very difficult for us. because what you might have happen -- this is what you have been inching toward is we could have a natural democratic election and elect a party that does away with our democracy. that's not what the founders wanted to have happen. >> is it an unbelievable state of affairs. ashleyiacy and rick are sticking around. when we come back, we will talk with a member of congress on yesterday's censure vote, its importance, and what comes next for her and her colleagues as threats of violence among the gop ranks continue. plus, we know what it takes to be a republican senate hopeful these days, tightly embracing donald trump's election lies. add arizona attorney general, and now senate candidate to the list of participants more than a year after president biden's victory there. he is launching a, quote, investigation into 2020. but we have exclusive new audio that shows quite clearly no one knows thinking about what they are investigating at this point. later in the program, trying to get to the program of what happened on january 6th. working hard to uncover the full picture. the latest reporting and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. don't 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this little wearable sends my glucose numbers right to my phone or receiver. and the arrow tells me which way i'm heading and how fast. so it's easier for me to keep my glucose in range. and the more time i spend in range, the more i can do. if you're on medicare, learn more at dexcom.com. violence is on speed dial. i have seen an exponential increase in violence. we expect to be called out in restaurants or maybe on streets or attacked for our policies. but we don't expect to have a member who is stoking the fires of violence in the context not only of president trump, who spent four years violently attacking members of congress, and these are members of color as well, which makes it even worse. >> congresswoman sheila jackson lee on the threats of violence coming from members of congress, and the importance of democrats' vote yesterday to censure and remove republican paul gosar from his committee assignments actions to make up for the violent rhetoric his party not only allowed but will be using as a way to govern. joining us, the house impeachment manager during donald trump's second impeachment trial. i want to ask you your feelings in the body and personally about yesterday's censure vote? >> i feel that members of congress don't want to censure their colleagues. that's not something that individuals should revel in. i think there was a great degree of sub dewed nature on the part of the democrats in the democratic party having to go through this. but of course we have to have reverence for this body, for the house it self. that means that members have to conduct themselves in a certain manner. the fact that we even have to go through magneto meertsds right now because of threats to members of congress, because of the concern that we have that members do not lieutenant congress itself. those who are charged by their constituents to uphold the law. you know, this is in fact the greatest symbol of democracy, and it's not being respected. you know, i am also very upset and frustrated, disappointed in my republican colleagues who know that what paul gosar did was obviously incorrect. and the lack of leadership on the part of kevin mccarthy. listen, the republican conference could have taken care of this in their own conference, could have done what was needed to ensure that paul gosar acted appropriately. they didn't. and so democrats had to do that, along with at the same time democrats taking the lead and voting for those things that are going to relieve americans. we see republicans taking credit for the c.a.r.e.s. act, for the bipartisan infrastructure bill, and they are going to take credit for build back better legislation that they wouldn't even vote for. >> yeah, i mean -- everything that you just listed is the evidence that they know they are on the wrong side of the legislation. and liz cheney and adam kinzinger's votes make clur they know they are on the wrong side of history in terms of yesterday's greenlighting of dissemination of violence. to me, that makes it worse. they have got two people who see politics in just -- there aren't many more conservative people in elected government than liz cheney. for her to be able to see clearly the danger of talking about murdering a colleague makes clear that under truth serum they must be able to say that, too. what does it say that they can't, and won't? >> well, it says something about, again, the leadership of the republican conference, and the leadership of the republican party, that they are not only going to stifle -- attempting to stifle the voices of those within their party which is causing others who i'm sure would vote if they felt they had the freedom to do that but are afraid of primaries and are afraid really of power more than anything else. this is the scary part, that they are not interested in legislating. they are not interested in upholding the tenets of this institution, of american values, of our democracy. they are only interested in retaining power. mitch mcconnell did that when he was the majority leader in the senate by being mr. no, by never moving forward any legislation that came out of the house. and we are seeing kevin mccarthy doing that now by coming up with false equivalentsies for not being a leader and only being interested in potentially being a speaker to reprimand and to keep his party in line. >> kong woman alexandrea ocasio cortez made a similar point about false equivalencies. >> when the republican leader rose to talk about how there are all of these double standards and list as litany of all of these different things not once did he list an example of a member of congress threatening the life of another. this is not about a double standard. and what is unprecedented, and what is tragic is the dissent of transgression in this body. >> where do you go from this place of acknowledging and having it sort of conveyed not just in this country, but around the world, and on the american right there is no bottom, not even, as the congresswoman said there, threats of violence against a colleague? >> i think we have to keep -- continue pressing on. individuals like you and like myself, who at one point in time were republicans need to continue to speak to those that we know are on the other side to come into the light, to come out of the darkness. and at the same time, we need to continue pressing forward with the good work that's happening here, whether it is our president going to glasgow and letting them know that america is back and america wants to do the right thing, to us passing this agenda, that the president has outlined for us, defending our democracy while at the same time making investments in equity, making investments in the american people. i know that the people of the virgin islands that i represent are so excited by the infrastructure plan and what it's going to mean for our ports, for our roads, for infrastructure, and for jobs, right, skilled jobs. we know that 175 million jobs a year are going to be created by that legislation. and build back better is going to be a game changer for so many of us that want to bring equity. it is the economic development that i came to congress to work on. so i think that while we are defending our democracy by things such as the january 6th select committee and ensuring that voting rights and other things are defended, and calling out republicans when we need to, we are going to keep pressing forward with the president's agenda, with the democratic agenda, to ensure that all americans have a leg up as we come through this pandemic. >> congresswoman thank you for spending time talking to us. >> thank you. new exclusive audio that shows investigators looking into non-existent fraud in arizona pushed by an attorney general looking to catch the expresident's attention are now admitting that they know nothing about what they have been tasked to do. that stunning story is next. now, nurtec odt can not only stop a migraine it 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vaughn hillyard obtaining recordings from state election investigators from the attorney general's office in arizona who are still investigating the 2020 election more than a year later. on the tapes, the investigators tell adrian fontes, a former election official in maricopa county that they do not -- not only do they not believe the 2020 election was stolen. they also might not really know how elections work either. take a listen. >> i mean, is your boss that desperate in his primary that he has to the to push this [ bleep ] about stolen election. >> nobody is talking about stolen election at all. >> then why -- i mean, that's what this is about. at the end of the day, this is a false narrative that's been proven false over and over again. we know it's not real. i have a feeling you guys know it's not real. and i kinds of feel bad that you guys are even here because, like i get the feeling from -- that you guys [ bleep ]. i am sorry you have to do it. but i am happy to answer. >> well you have to think of it this way. when i worked at the police department, somebody comes in and makes a complaint. we investigate it. have you had a chance to look at early voting election voting plan and the voting plan and all that stuff from the election department. >> i am going to be perfectly honest i don't know how this -- i volunteered to be the election integrity velt investigator at the amount of g. office. it is a new thing. it is a new thing. we didn't have it before. >> didn't have it before. >> he along with the maricopa county board of supervise including several republicans who continued to stand up and say this was a fair election conducted righteously and this was a fair election. >> there was no fraud. >> it is not fraud. >> and joe biden won. >> joe biden won. then you have that individual who is a special agent from attorney general mark bernardeau vich's office who is part this election integrity unit here that is now investigating the 2020 election. this is from earlier this month. a year later, essentially coming in after the cyber nine gentleman audit was conducted and looking to work through in their version work through outstanding questions that they still are still outstanding. >> there aren't any outstanding questions. >> attorney general mark bernardeau vich is run forth the u.s. senate. blake masters, another republican candidate for the u.s. senate was just at mar-a-lago two weeks ago. mark bernardeau vich was essentially pummelled by president trump over twitter and in statements for not doing enough to investigate this election. this is an hour long interview in which the serb agent was will with adrian fontes. if we can listen to a little bit more of it. >> absolutely. >> obviously, you know about the audit. >> that was almost air quotes. >> it was. so the audit, i said, you know, the cyber ninjas conducted the ought it. so there was a lot of controversy over different u.s. ish us. all we are trying to do is get an idea -- we don't know a lot of the processes. that's just the paper ballots, correct? >> well, that's the only kind there are. >> i mean, people voting at the machines later on. >> i don't know what you mean by that. >> if i walked into a ballot place, did they do electronic voting at all? >> no. >> okay. so everything is a paper ballot? >> yes. >> okay. i'm a little confused. >> well, i'm a little surprised. >> well, because -- >> like, i'm literally a little bit surprised and disappointed by the nature of that question. >> right. >> you don't know that in arizona every ballot, every vote is on a paper ballot? there is no such thing as a voting machine in arizona. >> okay. >> there is the fact that you are using that term is disturbing. >> so my understanding is at some point either shortly before the election or shortly after, some of the information that was -- that came in through ballots, i don't know if it is scanning or how they tabulate -- i am not a computer person -- you know how information gets into that server, right? >> no. >> okay. well it would be helpful for you to have that background before. >> so the only place that there were questions raised about arizona's voting olympians was in right wing disinformation ask. it is so pervasive it miss informed the investigator. how does this continue to go on. >> i think that's the heart of this question. i reached out to the attorney general of arizona's office, they have no comment at this time. but this is them working through potential indictments here. we are talking about the attorney general of arizona. ultimately it would go the court of law. somebody would have to be found guilty of wrongdoing. but we lived through that for months with the cyber ninjas working through it this year. every one of the candidates are questioning the 2020 election. you have the u.s. senate candidates like masters, brnovich now who is conducting his own investigation with the official office here, and what you just heard was a special agent there. you know, i am not inside of hi mind, but clearly we all heard what his questions were there, and seemingly not knowing the basics of arizona elections including the fact that elections are conducted on paper ballots in the state. >> rick, the bad guys are winning! i mean, this is someone who seems to not have any ill intentions that i can hear on an audio recording, but he doesn't have the basic facts about an election he has been brought in to investigate after three audits and the cyber ninja fraudit. what breaks a cycle of disinformation, again, so pervasive, that an entire election is being waged based on a lie? >> it's scary. i mean, it's the authoritarian's playbook which comes from alice in wonderland, which is verdict first, evidence afterwards. there is a story in arizona papers today about trump and giuliani calling right after the election trying to find more than 10,000 votes to overturn what happened there. and there has been a year audit where there was no damage. but since every candidate in arizona, republican candidate, is disputing the validity of the election, evidence doesn't matter. that's the problem. that's what's so dangerous in our politics now where there is no empirical fact that one side accepts. and when you can't have acceptance of facts in a democracy, that's when a democracy, as we were saying, votes itself out of existence. it's really frightening. >> jackie, do any of the republicans, and the arizona congressional delegation want to give up their seats because they are so concerned there was fraud in the 2020 elections? >> absolutely not. i think we need to take closer look here at someone like bernardeau vich. he was one of the few attorneys in a swing state who stood up against president trump. he went on fox news in november, 2020 and said there was no signs of election fraud, that we were not able to determine that anything affected anyone's vote is what i am reading a block quote from that interview and that there were -- 100% there weren't any statistical anomalies or errors. this is a guy who is now pushing this investigation for strictly pill reasons. he was castrated by trump -- actually -- sorry, castigated by him on twitter, and through emails targeted by him. now he's trying to win a primary to become a u.s. senate to represent arizona. and that is the only reason why he's going back on his initial statements defending the arizona election. and i think that this is a pattern that we are seeing over and over again. i actually would be curious if we went and looked at some of the other attorneys general, republican ones who defended president trump in 2020 and see if they have shifted now that they have come under such scrutiny and attack for not embracing these false claims. >> it is an unbelievable turn even for republicans who after voting for donald trump had to concede the reality that he had lost. it is some incredible reporting. thank you for sharing it with us. jackie, thank you. rick sticks around. after a five their year pause, president biden welcoming the leylanders from mexico and canada to the white house hoping to showcase for the world a sense of solidarity after the trump era. the latest from the white house today is next. ext. ♪ christmas music ♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ if your dry eye symptoms keep coming back, what?! no! over the counter eye drops typically work by lubricating the eyes and may provide temporary relief. xiidra works differently, targeting inflammation that can cause dry eye disease. it can provide lasting relief. xiidra is the only fda-approved non-steroid eye drop specifically for the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. one drop in each eye, twice a day. don't use if you are allergic to xiidra. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied to the eye, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. after using xiidra wait 15 minutes before reinserting contacts. 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[upbeat music] i booked our hotel on kayak. it's flexible if we need to cancel. cancel. i haven't left the house in a year. nothing will stop me from vacation. no canceling. flexible cancellation. kayak. search one and done. as i observe investors balance risk and reward, i see one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. your strategic advantage. president biden meeting with the leaders of canada and mexico earlier at the white house ahead of the trilateral meeting set to begin shortly. he is attempting to repair relations with our neighbors after years of tension. last time the leaders met together was june 2016 during president barack obama's last year in white house. while relations, some new problems, new challenges have emerged from a.p. reporting, canada's justin trudeau arrived in washington with concerns about buy american provisions in the president's proposed $1.85 trillion social services plan. mexico's priorities heading into the summit were to obtain concrete advances on immigration, a more equitable access to covid-19 vaccines. we're back with ashley parker and rick stengel. just set the stage for the trilateral meeting which is happening, i think, in a few minutes. >> sure. so, you know, president biden, just to go back a little bit, when he took office, one of the things he was determined to do was repair relationships with allies around the globe and kind of declare america is back. and he was met with some understandable skepticism, in part from leaders who had seen the past four years under former president trump and as his administration went on by some of his own actions such as unilaterally withdrawing from afghanistan. so, you know, these are our neighbors to the north and the south. they are a priority. biden made sure to do his first virtual summits with trudeau and then the mexican president, and this is the meeting in-person. there was an individual meeting between each of them and now the three men will come together and what's interesting is they're not really promising many deliverables. we don't expect that many specifics out of this meeting, but what we do expect is, again, canada and mexico to welcome sort of this more friendly and conciliatory tone but on issues such as trade and immigration, which were flash points under trump, there's still some tensions there that they come to washington wanting to address with president biden. >> rick, it is hard to -- ashley covers this every day so she has this granular understanding of it. but it is hard to articulate how hard it is to be in a fight with canada and mexico for four years as an american president. it is hard to not get along with either of them. talk about how much work there was to do for this president and this administration on the diplomatic front. >> well, it's hard to do that, nicole. it's also incredibly dumb. when you look at canada and the united states and mexico, it's the largest gdp in the world. it's larger than china. it's larger than the european union. we, you know, going back to the three amigos summits that president bush started, this should always be something where we're linking arms and yes, there are disagreements, but the problem is that it's not that it's hard to heal the breach. i think they've already done that. even the issues being discussed, discounts on electric vehicles that are larger in america than for canadian vehicles, those things are all reconcilable. what mexico and canada are worried about is the american turn towards autocracy. will the democrats still be around? i mean, you know, they're going to heal the breach for now, but they're looking ahead to the midterms. they're looking to 2024. >> you know, rick, that's something that ambassador mcfaul has said after president biden's first trip to europe. that's something i have heard from people who have worked in your space, in diplomacy, and at the state department. what is -- i mean, there's no remedy. you can't predict who's going to win future elections. how dow yo navigate that? that is a problem that no white house has had to navigate, ever. >> yes, i mean, i think the way you navigate it is you do what you can in the short-term, and i think the canadians see that and the mexicans see that. i mean, countries have their own interests and they each -- each of those respective leaders represents their countries' interests. they're trying to do what's best for them right now but they're hoping for the best in the future. i mean, they -- trump did change the north american free trade agreement. there were some benefits to what he did, the usmca agreement. i think mexico would agree with that and canada would agree with that. same people would say, yes, let's proceed on that basis, but you know, they don't have a crystal ball either and they're concerned. >> ashley, i know from my time in government that a president sort of on the heels of a domestic accomplishment, it changes just the dynamic in the room. it sort of changes their swagger and their momentum when they walk into a meeting with foreign leaders. is there anything detectable for this president coming off his big win on infrastructure? in these first bilats? >> well, i would say, not just infrastructure, but a thing that senior white house officials have stressed with us is also coming off of what they consider a pretty forceful leadership role from the united states at the climate summit in glasgow. one of the issues on the table is climate change, and they think, again, coming off of glasgow, where china did not show up, where russia did not show up, where biden believed the u.s. played a strong and forceful role, is another thing that going into the summits gives him sort of the wind at his back or at least a little bit of swagger and confidence in these meetings. >> ashley parker, rick stengel, thank you so much for spending time with us. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started. k br. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started >> there's room to grow... >> ...and lots of opportunities. >> so, what are you waiting for? >> apply now... >> ...and make a difference. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ >> man, i love that song! no one can deliver your mom's homemade short ribs. for starters, your mom doesn't have a restaurant. if she did, it would be impossible to get in. she'd become famous overnight. she'd get talked into franchising everything. and at that point, they wouldn't really taste like your mom's short ribs. no one can deliver your mom's homemade short ribs. that's why instacart helps deliver the ingredients. no one feel stuck withr mom's hstudent loan debt?. move to sofi and feel what it's like to get your money right. (phone chimes) ♪ ♪ ♪ i jump up on the stage ♪ ♪ and do my money dance ♪ ♪ i throw some money up ♪ ♪ and watch the money land ♪ ♪ i do my, i do my i do my money dance ♪ move your student loan debt to sofi - you could save with low rates and no fees. earn a $500 bonus when you refi... and get your money right. ♪ i do my money dance ♪ at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. even walking was tough. i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. cosentyx can help you move, look, and feel better... by treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting...get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections some serious... and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms... or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms... develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. at 1:49 p.m., i received a frantic call from then chief of united states capitol police, steven sund where he informed me that the security perimeter of the united states capitol has been breached by hostile rioters. chief sund, his voice cracking with emotion, indicated that there was a dire emergency at the capitol, and he requested the immediate assistance of as many available national guardsmen that i could muster. immediately after that 1:49 call, i alerted the u.s. army senior leadership of the request. the approval for chief sund's request would eventually come from the acting secretary of defense and be relayed to me by army senior leaders at 5:08 p.m. about three hours and 19 minutes later. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. more than ten months after the deadly capitol insurrection and many burning questions remain. among them, a definitive timeline, specifically, why did it take so long for the national guard to get to the scene of the insurrection? the account you just heard, that was from former commanding general of the d.c. national guard, major general william walker, when he testified before congress way back in march. major general walker claimed he would have acted sooner but dysfunction at the pentagon and restrictions put in place leading up to that day slowed the national guard's response. but now that timeline is in question and foggy again. a brand-new 150-page report from the defense department's inspector general says decisions made by pentagon leadership were reasonable in light of the circumstances that kbised on that day. and they directed major general walker twice to send in troops. "washington post" reports this. "army secretary ryan mccarthy first notified major general william walker by phone at 4:35 p.m. that walker was authorized to send troops to capitol hill and then called the general again to reissue the deployment order." about 30 minutes after mccarthy originally conveyed it. an unidentified army witness told investigators with the independent inspector general. that's according to a newly released report. walker, though, in an interview with the "post" yesterday called the statements inaccurate and uncorroborated. and the fact that so much is still so unclear and unknown about what occurred that day is why the january 6th select committee is working so hard to uncover the full picture. according to new reporting in politico, a whistle-blower says he worries the u.s. capitol police is getting off too easy. that whistle-blower told politico that he participated in a 90-minute interview with committee investigators last week. the panel's tactics both before and during the interview had him worried the committee was too close with the capitol police department to conduct an open and honest review. meanwhile, the man now charged with contempt of congress for defying the committee's subpoenas, steve bannon, appeared virtually in court today where the judge signed off on his not guilty plea but scheduled another status hearing for next month, sooner than what was requested by bannon's team. the many, many questions still unanswered about january 6th is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. john heilemann is here, an nbc news and msnbc national affairs analyst. he's the host of the hell and high water pod cost on the recount. also joining us, daniel goldman is here, he was majority counsel for the democrats during donald trump's first impeachment trial and a former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. he is now a candidate for new york attorney general. and david rohde is here. john heilemann, i want to start with you specifically on this new reporting but more broadly on sort of the fog of the day that hasn't really been completely lifted. what do you make of that? >> well, nicole, i mean, look, you know, there's that saying, the fog of war, and you know, there was a lot going on that day, a lot going on that we could see and a lot that even the things that were visible has taken a long time to assemble a real clear picture of just what was happening in broad daylight and then there's the question of what was happening behind the scenes. i'm reading those accounts, though, and you know, it seems to me there's a dispute now between the army and the head of the capitol police, basically, around the question of, was he -- did he receive an order twice? the first order, now there's a version that's now in the record of this inspector general's office that says the first issue order was issued at 4:35 p.m. and another order was issued second, follow-up order had to be issued after 5:00. i will, you know, obviously, walker's pushing back on that and on that timeline, but it's not that far from the timeline that he suggested, which was basically, he said, you know, he didn't get an order until after 5:00. the question is, did he get an order at 4:30? to me, the capitol was breached at 1:50 p.m. i was up there. and that's -- in either timeline, the question is still, why was the first order not issued for nearly two hours after the initial breach of the capitol? that's the question that seems unresolved to me in both these time lines. >> yeah, i mean, dan goldman, you're the investigator among us. tell me what your read is of this reporting, and i think what john heilemann is getting at is we're nowhere close to an answer to the question of why was it in the 4s and not the 2s? >> that's exactly right. i totally agree with john. it's really a distinction with little difference, whether he received the call at 4:35 or 5:08. and i don't think we should be spending a lot of time arguing about it. the one thing i would do if i were an investigator, and i'm surprised, i haven't read the full report but it doesn't sound like the pentagon inspector general did this, i recall a press conference by maryland governor larry hogan where he talked about how nonresponsive the pentagon was to his request to send maryland national guards to help with the insurrection, and he said he waited and waited and waited. he was calling everyone. he waited for 90 minutes, whatever it was, so this is a -- an account of the d.c. national guard, but we also have an account on the record by the maryland governor, and i do hope the january 6th committee meets with governor hogan, where he has said that the maryland national guard also was stymied from going. and as an investigator, you look for corroborating evidence. so, here we have general walker talking about how it took forever for the pentagon to get to the -- to give him the okay, and you have governor hogan saying the same thing about the maryland national troops. we're starting to see a set of facts that it appears as if the pentagon is trying to rewrite to some degree and i think it's incumbent upon the january 6th committee to get to the bottom of what exactly what happened that day. >> let me just read a little bit more of the reporting, because it gets sort of to where your questions, i think, are aiming. dan goldman. "post" adds this. mirroring his senate testimony, walker told the inspector general's investigators that he was stunned and frustrated during a 2:22 p.m. conference call when city officials asked for national guard assistance and senior army officers, lieutenant generals charles flynn and walter piatt advised against providing it. at 2:22. other witnesses interviewed as part of the investigation said that piatt was concerned about public blowback over the sight of uniformed personnel potentially confronting political protesters, that the army needed a plan before inserting soldiers into the crisis. so we know from the ig, dan goldman, that at 2:22, walker was, quote, stunned and frustrated. but what do you want to know about what happened between 2:22 and 5:00 to deal with what amount to concerns about confronting donald trump's backers? >> well, i want to know what was going on between the white house and the pentagon. i want to know the calls that mark meadows was having at the time. i want to know the calls that others, senior officials in the white house -- i want to know whether donald trump was talking to mark milley or defense secretary esper at the time. i would like to know exactly what the communications were between the white house and the pentagon during that delay from 2:22 to 4:35 or 5:08 or whichever it is, two hours or two and a half hours. that, to me, is really the crux here. did they relay to the pentagon that you should not authorize the national guard to go to the capitol to stop the insurrectionists, and particularly did they do that over the objection of anyone in the pentagon? but i worry a little bit that this appears to be a lot of witnesses trying to make the pentagon look better than perhaps they were or trying to cover for donald trump and the white house. but there's something amiss here. >> so, john heilemann -- >> hey, nicole. >> yeah, go ahead. >> i'm looking at my phone now, okay? from january 6th. at 3:05 p.m., i have a text message from a senior congressional democrat, elected member of congress, saying that they, meaning members of congress, were in undisclosed locations. defense department turned down national guard request, the best and worst of times. the moment we're praying that the media get the story out about how trump incited and wouldn't send help. now, i'm not saying that that's the truth. but i'm telling you that at 3:00 in the afternoon, a senior democratic member of congress, who was in an undisclosed location, having been driven out of the building, believed that that was the truth and was signaling to help to the media to raise the question of what they were hearing, and this is someone who's fairly close to nancy pelosi but is not nancy pelosi. they were hearing that this is exactly what was happening at 3:00. they were hearing that the guard was being held back. trying to answer here, dan goldman's question. i think it's the right question to be asking because my contemporaneous reporting suggests there were some senior democrats in that moment who thought that was exactly what was happening. >> well, and the contemporaneous reporting, dan goldman, just to come back to you as the investigator, it was never revealed that donald trump ever called the national guard. i believe the vice president ultimately got involved because the vice president's life was in danger. and we know from subsequent reporting as well that the vice president refused to leave the building. we know that it came up in the impeachment trial, that kevin mccarthy called donald trump, told him to call off his supporters. he put out a statement saying, i love you, instead. i mean, you take everything that's public-facing and it's pretty clear where investigators need to dig deeper. i wonder if you think this enhances the import of that kash patel subpoena and if you think that might be one that the committee pursues more fervently. >> it's a very good point, nicole. kash patel is the most partisan political operative, perhaps, of anyone that has worked in that administration. he started doing that kind of nefarious investigating under congressman devin nunes in the house intelligence committee before i got there, and he continued during the ukraine affair, you may remember, nicole, that he delivered information about ukraine to donald trump even though he had nothing to do with the ukraine -- the ukraine docket, so kash patel has been in the middle of a lot of things, and then he was moved over to the defense department after gina haskell, the cia director, rejected and threatened to resign a request to have kash patel become the deputy cia director. so he is an operative -- he is essentially an arm of donald trump, and that subpoena, to the extent that he would tell the truth, and his testimony, i think, would be incredibly valuable here. but my guess is that there are other witnesses that were around him, and there are emails or text messages that would give investigators a pretty good sense of what kash patel was doing that day. >> and david, this all becomes, i think, more urgent, looking at the way that steve bannon has defied his subpoena and turned it into a bannon-esque, i don't know what you would call it, encore of his years in -- >> carnival. >> carnival. yes. thank you. this is what you report. the question, of course, is how the public will see the bannon case. american democracy is entering a strange and perilous period as bannon's case plays out in the months ahead, americans will have to decide whether his theatrics are a threat to democracy, performative branding or a mix of both. the former federal prosecutor said there is a substantial federal interest in bannon's case proceeding as quickly as possible. he adds what can be of greater interest than an attack on the heart of democracy in the united states. there isn't a sort of federal prosecutor, a person out of the sort of right, left, center that hasn't been corrupted by trumpism in sort of doj circles who doesn't see this case that way, and it's just important to point out, and i know you talked to a lot of them in your reporting, that the only people who view the bannon case as tangential to the very essence of our democracy and the rule of law are the people totally captive to donald trump. >> it's true. and then bannon was in court again today, and his lawyers tried to delay. they pushed judge nichols, who's hearing the case, saying they didn't need to appear again until january, judge nichols rebuffed that and they'll be meeting before then but that is the strategy, the earlier questions about what happened at the pentagon, the strategy is to run out the clock, delay the proceedings, hope the republicans take the house, and i checked with the select committee on this. their legal mandate runs out at the end of this congress. it runs out in early january of 2023. so, the clock is ticking. bannon will delay as long as he can. other trump allies will delay. and you know, if the republicans take the house, we may never have answers to these questions. >> john heilemann, what is your sense of sort of the momentum that is behind the scenes, not visible to us, of the 1/6 committee? >> well, my sense of it is that there's -- that, well, first of all, i think, my sense is there's always been a high degree of determination on the part of the members of the 1/6 committee to try, the understanding that they're on the clock, as david just said, and understanding that they need to move fast. you know, as is often the case in congress, nicole, the understanding of the need to move fast sp not necessarily -- does not necessarily mean that they move as fast as they should be moving and their definition of fast is sometimes not what the definition of fast -- that might be suggested by the timeline, that might be suggested by the kinds of impediments that might be faced. the very practiced delaying techniques, whether they are performative performance art or a threat to democracy, i think to david's question, i think in steve bannon's case, they're definitely both and he's got a lot of lawyers who are good at delaying, and i think there's some members of committee staff who are frustrated that they are not further down the line than they are right now, and that they think they're still miles away, miles away from a real interim report by the spring, which was sort of the target date that chairman thompson was kind of aiming for and that a lot of work, a lot of work, particularly not in terms of some of these public subpoenas but in terms of the kind of electronic work on the phone calls, the text messages, the emails, the electronic communications they issued with much fanfare these subpoenas for earlier in the fall is nowhere near where it needs to be to do the kind of real investigation, the kind of real counterintelligence and intelligence investigation that they need to do to get a full picture of this. that there are -- they're making some progress on some of these witnesses, some, not enough, not fast enough, but there's a whole other piece of this investigation where they are way behind, and i think that that is creating not rifts, not necessarily dissension, but some tension among certain members, members of the committee and certain members of the staff of the committee. >> dan goldman, i want to ask you if you know anything about that but to john's point about documents and discovery and this story that documents can tell, you know a lot about that from your career as a prosecutor but also from the first impeachment. i want to read this reportin. kimberby, the girlfriend of his son, donald trump jr., boasted to a gop operative that she had raised $3 million for the rally that helped fuel the january 6th capitol riot. in a series of text messages sent on january 4th to katrina peerson, the white house liaison to the event, guilfoyle detailed plans. they represent the strongest indication yet that members of the trump family circle were directly involved in the financing and organization of the rally. this feels like the follow the money piece of the investigation. would you assume that the committee has everything that propublica has seen? >> no. i would not assume that. i think a lot of times that i dealt with, people will leak to the press anonymously rather than come out, you know, nonanonymously, unanonymously, so it's not necessarily true. there were many times when the press would report things about the ukraine matter that we had not seen because people were scared to come forward. so, that is an issue. but you raise a really good point and that was the point that i wanted to make. first of all, this committee will issue a final report one way or another, no matter what -- who has testified or who has not testified. so, the longer this goes, the more it will push back into election season and potentially even after. but my guess is we're going to see a report before the election. second, the much more important case to this investigation is the documents case, then steve bannon's case. because if steve bannon does not reach some sort of a deal where he agrees to testify, and he goes to trial, he is not going to be compelled to testify if he's convicted. that's not what this is about. so, that's kind of a side show right now. but the real issue are these documents that are stuck in court now because of donald trump's assertion of executive privilege over, you know, notwithstanding joe biden's decision that it doesn't apply. that is where a lot of this information is going to be found, and that's what we should be focusing on. >> david, and i guess that leads me to my last question for you. chairman bennie thompson said on tuesday that the committee won't rush the effort to make it clear that it has given the former north carolina congressman, mark meadows, multiple opportunities to cooperate. they are prepared to hold him in contempt, but they will not rush that. what is your sense of where those efforts stand? >> i think meadows will delay as well but i agree with dan. this is -- it's up to these judges. it's up to the circuit court that's now considering the records case and the national archives has to release these documents. i believe there are hundreds of pages of documents, you know, trump's schedule that day, certain emails and communications and documents don't lie. happy that people leak to the press but you know, dan might agree, the best source for a reporter or an investigator is a document, and so that's the central case here, and i hope that moves quickly forward through the court system and there's a quick and clear verdict that results in the release of those documents. that's the most important evidence, i think, at this point, of all. >> we'll stay on it. david, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. john heilemann and dan goldman are not going anywhere. when we come back, we'll ask dan goldman about his newly announced campaign for attorney general of new york in the face of what he calls an existential crisis that threatens the rule of law in the entire country. plus the economic numbers that just might make you rethink the way the economy is going right now. here's a hint. it's a whole lot better than people feel it is. and with covid vaccinations for younger kids off to a roaring start, what is safe, and what is not advised as families head into the holiday season? "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ no one can deliver your mom's homemade short ribs. for starters, your mom doesn't have a restaurant. if she did, it would be impossible to get in. she'd become famous overnight. she'd get talked into franchising everything. and at that point, they wouldn't really taste like your mom's short ribs. no one can deliver your mom's homemade short ribs. that's why instacart helps deliver the ingredients. motrin works fast to stop pain where it starts. like those nagging headaches. uncomfortable period pains. and disruptive muscle aches. you can count on fast, effective relief with motrin. you get more with aarp medicare advantage plans from unitedhealthcare. like $0 copays on tier 1 and tier 2 prescription drugs. 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in so many cases is both bad management and dangerous for the city of san francisco. - we are for criminal justice reform. chesa's not it. recall chesa boudin now. he was the democrats' not so secret weapon during the first impeachment of donald j. trump, fighting to hold a president accountable for abusing his power. but daniel goldman says he's not quite done fighting. he announced this week he's running for attorney general of new york, the state's top law enforcement official, to again tackle today's big fights, and what he calls the existential threat to democratic ideals and the rule of law. we're back with new york attorney general candidate dan goldman and john heilemann. okay, so, tell us what -- tell us what this campaign is about for you. >> well, nicole, over the last several years, we've seen how important the new york attorney general's position is with its broad authority and leticia james has done a very good job, an effective job. she's investigated donald trump, the trump organization. she's filed numerous lawsuits to sort of uphold fundamental rights and basic freedoms against the trump administration, and she filed a lawsuit to dissolve the nra for misusing its charity. so, the reach and the authority of the new york attorney general goes, obviously, it's quite broad in new york but goes beyond that. and as we were just talking about the january 6th insurrection, and the fact that someone like steve bannon can just completely ignore a congressional subpoena, and then become a martyr to a number of -- to millions of people who, i guess, are supporting the concept of just no rule of law in this country, and the idea that donald trump has kicked off a trumpist approach where the truth isn't truth, facts aren't facts, and democracy is dead, really just got to me, and i felt like i, having been on the front lines with impeachment, having been on the front lines trying cases and prosecuting cases as a prosecutor, it felt like it was a calling and a time for me to get back in the arena, not only to represent the people of new york and new york is an important state in terms of leading the nation in its policy, but also fighting these big fights of voting rights around the country, states restricting voting rights and allowing for donald trump to successfully engineer a coup where he was unsuccessful this year. reproductive rights, climate change, these are all major, major issues that i would like to address, and the new york attorney general has incredibly broad authority to try to tackle these and many other problems. >> dan, you said this, what the attorney general does is directly related to my experience in prosecuting mob bosses, white-collar criminals, leveling the playing field by going after insider trading, impeaching the president of the united states, there is no one else i've heard of who will run who has the experience of holding the privileged and the powerful accountable and that is, at the end of the day, the crux of what the attorney general's role is. don't take this personally, but i think a lot of people feel that congress failed at holding donald trump accountable, impeached twice, not convicted either time, and so far, i know the prosecutions are ongoing, we don't know what we don't know, hasn't been held accountable in manhattan or new york state. do you have any sense or any vision for what you would look at or whether he could or would be held accountable in new york? >> i have no sense -- i don't know what the facts are as part of that investigation, and one thing i will not do is promise to investigate any individual. that, to me, is very contrary to the rule of law that i believe in so much. so, i'm not going to sit here and say, i'm going to go after anyone. what i will tell you is that i have always gone after the powerful, and i'm unafraid to do so. so, if there are facts presented to me about anyone, no matter how powerful, no matter how wealthy, no matter how dominant, such as, you know, corporate america, big tech, big banks, i will hold them accountable, and part of the reason i want to run is i want to get back to a equal democracy where everyone is treated equally. there is one standard of justice. and i think, frankly, that's the way that we get out of the conundrum that we're in. at some point, somebody has to take the lead and make sure that everyone is treated the same and eventually, eventually -- it may take a while, but eventually, that is going to win out because at the end of the day, we are the world's greatest democracy and those of us who care about it need to step up and fight for our democracy. >> you know, john heilemann, that is the fight sort of on the streets too. i mean, even at a local level. and you look at all of the state -- i mean, we cover the near total ban on abortion in texas all the time. 33 states have passed voting restrictions predicated on a lie, that there was fraud in 2020, that bill barr said did not exist anywhere. the fights, i think, even democrats in washington would concede, are increasingly in the states. >> yeah, i mean, look, there's no doubt that attorneys general across the country are at the very sharp end of the spear, so to speak. i think that's not the right metaphor, but are on the cutting edge, the bleeding edge, whatever, of where the most contentious political issues, they intersect with legal issues and those are, in fact, the most contentious political issues we have is where law and politics come together, where democracy is at stake, where fundamental individual liberty is at stake, where human rights are at stake, our civil rights are at stake, where voting rights are at stake, those are being fought as much on a state-by-state basis, maybe more than they are being fought at the federal level and so yes, i think i agree with all that. i do think the question, nicole, one of the questions is that, is this -- is new york state going to be a place where those issues are litigated in the way that they're being litigated in texas or the way they're being litigated in georgia or the way they're being litigated in some other parts of the country? you know, new york is obviously a place that has a lot of criminal activity and has had a lot of high-profile prosecutions and the attorneys general who have represented the state have become national figures. i think dan is right that there's no state in the country that doesn't have a debate, that doesn't have cases, that doesn't have challenges that go to what are these large, national, in some ways existential issues, but i would say right now, at least, so far, the state of new york has not been the primary venue for some of the kinds of things you're talking about and the question is whether it will be in the future and whether that's something that has to kind of come from the ground up or is that an agenda in some ways that the attorney general here can drive and i'm curious, dan, how you think about that. >> it's a very good question. and i think ultimately, to deal with some of these state-specific issues, we're going to have to be, if i were attorney general, very creative. i charged the very first bitcoin securities fraud case in the southern district of new york, and the general ethos of that office is to be aggressive and to be creative and to push law enforcement so that the bad guys are caught. even if what they're doing may be new and novel and not fit within the traditional model so i've done that. but i agree with you, john. there are some things that are part of our existential crisis, such as climate change and environmental justice that have a national impact. particularly some of my ideas about holding corporate america accountable for their representations about their environmental justice, their social justice, their governance programs. no one is really checking to see whether the fossil fuel company and corporate america more broadly are really doing what they say they're doing. i think that can have a huge impact. some of these reproductive rights issues will be resolved by the supreme court. we'll have to see what happens. but some of these voting rights issues, i think, there's room for creativity in making sure that democracy is -- remains our calling card here. and that's ultimately what a lot of these laws that nicole is referencing are attacking. they are trying to make some of these states anti-democratic. >> and with shocking and disturbing success. dan goldman, thank you for spending time with us. john heilemann sticks around. despite what you hear from the right, the white house thinks it has a winning story to tell on the economy. what the biden administration needs to do to get the truth out about our economy. that's next. that's next. no, he's not in his room. ♪♪ ♪♪ dad, why didn't you answer your phone? ♪♪ your mother loved this park. ♪♪ she did. ♪♪ wayfair's black friday sale is on now! score unbelievable savings with our biggest sale 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"the new york times" points out this morning the significant gap between perception and reality when it comes to the economy. here are the facts. retail sales are rising faster than expected. savings accounts, checking accounts, more flush, paychecks are up, unemployment is way down thanks to a surge in jobs, a surge even more dramatic than we'd originally thought. this week, the bureau of labor statistics said it had undercounted job growth by some 626,000 jobs over four months this year. a huge, huge number. one that could be its own jobs report. all that is really, really good news, really, really good economic news and yet, 70% of the american public says the economy is in bad shape. that is a 12-point increase since last spring. consumer sentiment is at a ten-year low, largely thanks to a surge in inflation, so what is going on? it's the best of times and the worst of times? what does the president do? joining our conversation is donny deutsch. john heilemann is still here. so, donny, first of all, what is your view of the economy? what are its strengths and what are its weaknesses? >> look, everywhere you look, the economy is strong, from the bottom to the top. if you look, wages are up. the bottom 50% in this country has seen their worths growing 30% in the last year. obviously the stock market's booming, unemployment, you ticked it off. i mean, other than inflation, and that's a big other, you can't -- a.c.e. is going on every single cylinder. however, inflation is where the rubber hits the road for so many people. they go in and the consumer price index is up 6%, their bread is more expensive, their gas is more expensive. quinnipiac had a poll, very similar to what you said, basically, if you ask people about their own personal financial doing, 65% said it's either good or excellent. you ask them the direction it's going, 61% say it's going in the wrong direction. how do we fill that gap up? you flip what i just said. make it -- basically ask the simple question to people, the ed koch question, how are you doing? are you better than you were four years ago? this is your economy. you made this work. you got back to work. you got your vaccines. you know, you're out there. it's your -- it's everybody's economy. it's your economy. how are you doing? so, basically, start asking people the question that they're already answering, that they're feeling good and stop making the economy an abstract thing and make it about, how are you doing? >> so, donny, we've had enough conversations and i have now covered democrats long enough to understand that even with facts on their side, sometimes they end up losing an argument when they have sort of the right answer, the right facts. they have the good intentions to do right by the people that they serve. . how do you make sure that doesn't happen on this all-important question of who's worried about your personal economy? >> you just call the democrats weenies? i think you did. >> i did not. let me -- so, here, i'll put -- i'll turn this around. >> i'm kidding, i'm kidding. >> no but it's actually a good point. republicans rarely have the facts on their side, and they can manage to fight democrats to a draw. democrats, in all the times we've been having these conversations, have all the facts on their side and they're losing on these questions of the economy. >> i would put an economic s.w.a.t. team together. biden can only do so much. biden is not this great communicator at this point. whether you love him or not, he's just not. i would deputize six governors, six senators, six congressmen, six local state assembly -- get a team of 20 to 24 people who are just on message pounding the facts. don't, you know, really, it shouldn't be on the president. so, whoever you deputize, hakeem jeffries, take the governor of this state, take 24 of your most telegenic, across the board, politicians, get them in a room, say, guys, this is your message. you're carrying the torch. you are one of the chosen 24, if you will, and basically have the democrats send them out everywhere, create a team. don't just leave it to biden. unfortunately, biden right now is not the great communicator. >> so, john heilemann, inflation's real, and no, i have not seen any democrat downplay how much angst that gives people, but there is seemingly a challenge here on getting the rest of the economic picture conveyed successfully. what did you sort of see and hear in your weeks out shooting "the circus"? >> i think, nicole, that -- and i never -- i think everything donny said, as donny and i have talked a lot about this over the course of the last year and we're kind of on the same page about it. i mean, look, i hear, having been out for the last, you know, couple months talking to a lot of people in a lot of states, blue states, red states, you hear a lot of anxiety and i think the anxiety is, people don't, i think, think about a lot of these things in the kind of coherent, clear, rational way that we think they do, and it's part of the problem the democrats sometimes have, which is they say, you know, here's this policy. you like this policy. we're going to give you this policy. and therefore, you're going to like us. as opposed to, you're scared. it's been an incredibly difficult two years where your economic fortunes, the state of your kids, the state of your health, the state of the country has been up for grabs, and this free-floating anxiety grips people about what's coming next. and one of the things that i think even a lot of voters who give biden and the administration quite high marks on handling covid, not necessarily perfect marks, and again, they get blamed for things that are not their fault. was the delta variant joe biden's fault? no. but it is the case for many americans that they felt like the rug got pulled out from under them when they were on track in the middle of this year. it seemed like, you know, joe biden said in june, july, we kind of round the corner, we can declare independence from covid and then slam, comes delta. is that -- again, is that joe biden's fault? it's not but i think for a lot of people they feel whipsawed by it so they look back and they look back and say, there's no doubt that the country, economically, in terms of the pandemic, the country's in a better place today than it was a year ago. but then, what you're asking them to do is look forward and that's the reality of politics. politics is about the future, not the past, and it's -- you want -- the administration wants credit for all the good work it's done. it's going to want to run on the accomplishments of getting the infrastructure bill passed and it hopes getting build back better passed but in the end, the thing you need to address with voters is what they think about their economic prospects, their social prospects, the prospects for the pandemic in the future and right now, there's not been a lot of -- a powerful messaging that's been done that makes people feel confident about what's coming, and until they feel confident about what's coming, you're going to continue to see a lot of these bad poll numbers on the right track, wrong track numbers and on the administration, i fear for joe biden's sake. >> and so much of it is that piece that literally nobody in politics has any professional training and talking about, and that is just this collective anxiety and i would add grief. i mean, i think people don't know what to do with the lost year and i think even heading into the holidays, i think they can do the normal stuff, but that conjures up anxiety as well. this conversation is to be continued because this is everywhere. this is not really have a partisan bent. it is what people are talking about. donny deutsch, john heilemann, thank you so much for joining us. up next, how americans should approach the holiday season with covid still very much out there and a thing. our medical expert weighs in. in ♪ my songs know what you did in the dark ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ i'm on fire ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em... ♪ bye mom. my helpers abound, i'll need you today. our sleigh is now ready, let's get on our way. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes. must be carried across all roads and all bridges. and when everyone is smiling and having their fun i can turn my sleigh north because my job here is done. it's not magic that makes more holiday deliveries to homes in the us than anyone else, it's the hardworking people of the united states postal service. do you take aspirin? plain aspirin could be hurting your stomach. new vazalore is the first liquid-filled aspirin capsule clinically shown to cause fewer ulcers than plain aspirin. vazalore is designed to help protect... releasing aspirin after it leaves your stomach... where it is absorbed to give you the benefits of life saving aspirin... to help prevent another heart attack or stroke. heart protection with your stomach in mind. try new liquid-filled vazalore. aspirin made amazing! any minute now, the fda is expected to approve the authorization of boosters of pfizer's covid vaccine for all adults over 18 years old. it's a move that drastically increases the number of americans eligible for a booster. the news comes as the white house announced as of yesterday nearly 10% of the country's 5 to 11-year-olds have already had their first covid shot. all these factors create a vital next step toward reducing covid. the one question on everybody's mind, is it safe for me to meet with my family and how big is too big for thanksgiving celebration? here's what dr. fauci had to say monday. >> if you get vaccinated and your family's vaccinated, you can feel good about enjoying a typical thanksgiving, christmas, with your family and close friends. if you're with your family at home, goodness, enjoy it with your parents, your children, your grandparents. there's no reason not to do that. >> let's bring into our conversation, msnbc medical contributor dr. bhadelia, university of boston emerging infectious diseases research. how big is too big? >> hey, nicole, it's not an easy question because it depends, as dr. fauci said, about whether everybody in your group is vaccinated and also if there's anybody in that group that might be vulnerable, medically vulnerable, and if they've been boosted yet or not. so i would say it depends on your comfort but i want to echo what dr. fauci said. we are better off this year than we were last year. yes, we're heading into a surge but more of us are vaccinated. here's one other way you can layer protection. get those rapid tests. take those before you go to a large gathering. have other members of your family get tested as well, particularly if there's somebody in that group who is medically vulnerable so you can protect them. also ask, if you think you're going to have somebody who's unvaccinated at that gathering, you could ask them to take that rapid at home test and that might keep you guys safer at all. and ask them to get thing. >> we'll all go together down to the cvs. i want to ask you about boosters. it got confusing. i went and got line. why is the fda seeming to lead from behind now? >> i think you asked me this when they approved a initial booster. the problem is the data is evolving every time we look at it and currently what it shows is that in fact, immunity antibody dis are waning for everybody. the question has been going into this winter surge, this winter this particular, getting everybody's antibody dis up, is going to be important. there's been an ongoing conversation. is this a dose maybe six months out gives you more immunity? that's what it's looking like more and more. that's the reason i think the fda is now looking at expanding that coverage. >> i live in new york. i've lived in new york, the northeast, and felt a lot of comfort since after labor day. it's ticking back up in the northeast. what do you think the future holds for the whole country? >> i'm on critical service right now and we're seeing patients with covid again and many of those are unvaccinated. i think you are likely to see, northeast never saw a true delta wave so you might be seeing pockets of the northeast now who were unvaccinated being infected and that is sort of spilling over with potential sort of you know, infection among the vaccinated with breakthroughs as well. i think you're going to see the cases go up over the next couple of months. i think the hospitalizations, i hope, knock on wood, maybe not as severe because of how many of us have been vaccinated then maybe in the spring as more of us get vaccinated, you may see a plateauing in the cases and we may get to this balance with this disease. >> doctor, thank you so much for being part of our conversation. quick break for us. we'll be right back. r conversatn quick break for us we'll be right back. growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. ♪♪ hi mr. charles. we made you dinner. aww, thank you. ♪♪ hi, i'm steve and i live in austin, texas. i work as a personal assistant aww, thank you. to the owner of a large manufacturing firm. i've got anywhere from 10 to 50 projects going at any given time. i absolutely have to be sharp. let me tell ya, i was struggling with my memory. it was going downhill. my friend recommended that i try prevagen and over time, it made a very significant difference in my memory and in my cognitive ability. i started to feel a much better sense of well-being. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. another powerful moment from our interview with huma abedin. she was opening up to us on her young son, jordan, and telling us how she talks to him about his father. and the 18 months he spent in prison as a result. here's more of our conversation. what does your son know about what anthony did and his time in jail? you took him there. >> in chapter is something we teach our children. not born of their authentic experiences. where he, jordan, was always very close to his father. he still is close to his father. he knows that his parents are somewhat public and you know, we've consulted with therapists about how to talk to him, age appropriate conversations. we've had those with him. in fact, the first time, when he was 3, he asked us, mommy, why do strangers talk to you and daddy on the street? is it because you work for them? children are so much smarter than we realize and they're soaking in everything. when i told him i had a book coming out, the first thing he said was does this mean those men are going to come back? >> photographers. >> yes. so he has some sort of understanding that mom and dad being out in the world is something public, but we've decided that our son is going to only know the truth from us. we're going, he's going to need to learn some hard truths and with love and support, he's going to be okay. >> you can catch the full conversation on demand on peacock. just go to peacocktv.com/deadlinewhite house and sign up for free to watch. thank you for letting us into your home. the beat starts after a quick break, so don't go anywhere. aft break, so don't go anywhere. ♪ baby got back by sir mix-a-lot ♪ unlimited cashback match... only from discover. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. no, he's not in his room. ♪♪ ♪♪ dad, why didn't you answer your phone? ♪♪ your mother loved this park. ♪♪ she did. ♪♪ with xfinity home, you can keep your home and everything in it more protected. i can wrangle all my deliveries. thanks, hoss! and i help walk the dog from wherever. *door unlocks* ♪ ♪ well, i can bust curfew-breakers in an instant. well, you all have xfinity home, with cameras to home security monitored by the pros. *laughs* learn more about home security or get our self-monitored solution starting at just $10 per month. welcome to the beat. we are tracking a lot of important stories tonight. let me tell you. we have a few things planned for you, actually. steve bannon was back in court formally. he's facing potential jail time and a judge that is not playing around. my breakdown on that with a special guest later this hour. also, new action in washington with biden inching closer to what many people say will be a historic spending plan if it sounds like didn't he just win a spending bill? we're getting new reports from the speaker's office that they will move forward on a vote on the second spending plan tonight in the house. then a breaking story we have been reporting on. an oklahoma execution dramatically halted just hours before it was set to begin today. this is an important story. it is about justice, it is about real people's lives and so much more as we've explained and i can tell you, we have a special guest on this difficult subject tonight.

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