Transcripts For MSNBC Alex Witt Reports 20240709

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>> reporter: alex, it's very significant for a couple of reasons. for starters it's unprecedented in nature and also crystallizes the scope of the january 6th committee and their congressional authority. you have the chair and vice chair of that committee releasing a set of scathing statements overnight aimed at steve bannon but also at future witnesses who are toying with the idea of following in bannon's footsteps. and right now they have their sights laser focused on mark meadows, the former president and chief of staff who refused to appear for his deposition yesterday. here's what they said in their statements. quote, steve bannon's indictment should send a clear message to anyone who would try to stone wall our investigation. mr. meadow's actions today choosing to defy the law will force the select committee to force pursuing contempt or others to enforce the speen op. you have republicans toy wg the idea of threatening democrats should this come around if they retake the majority. you have jim jordan, a trump ally, he's the top republican on the house judiciary committee. he tweeted biden eviscerated executive privilege saying they could call up the president's chief of staff ron klain. let's listen to what they had to say on our air this morning. >> i think that must be the strategy to see if they can run out the clock and see if they can regain control of congress again. and i think that ought to send a message about what it would mean if republicans took control of congress. because it's not just mr. bannon or mr. meadows who seem willing to defy the rule of law, but republican members of congress that are saying things like stand with bannon. >> reporter: so a michigan democrat, he's a member of house democratic leadership, clearly onboard with the justice department's decision to indict bannon but also calling on jim jordan's strategy here as jordan of course is looking ahead to be in the control of the house once again. >> okay, thank you so much for that. i'm joined now by analyst carol lam. how do you interpret the contempt of congress case? it's never happened before in history when an executive privilege claim has been made. so how strong a case is this against steve bannon? >> the strength of the case is one question, alex. how are they going to get the end point is another question. when something gets tossed into the criminal law arena prosecutors like everything to be very clear. they like the law to be clear. they like the defenses to be clear. they like the evidence to be clear. there's -- there are many things that steve bannon and his lawyer can do in this case to slow things down, which is probably the ultimate goal here. they can file a number of motions based on the -- i'm sorry, the executive privilege. and that is going to take a judge -- if a judge doesn't really move things along, that could slow things down considerably. there may even be the possibility they can take an appeal before the trial on some of these issues, and that will slow things down as well. i will say, though, that the department probably had a slightly easier case here in terms of deciding whether to indict bannon because at the time when this roll-up to january 6th was happening bannon was in no way an actual government official. so that weakens to some extent his claim of executive privilege. >> yeah, he left government employ in 2017. carol, when you looked at the indictment, was there anything in it you were surprised by? and was there anything not in there you thought would or should be there? >> no, it was a pretty straightforward indictment. they did point out he was no longer a government official at the time of these events and that he had not been for a long time. but what they included -- included the fact not only he didn't appear to testify and he didn't produce documents, but that he in no way made any effort to try to accommodate congress' request. he didn't present logs saying these documents exist but i can't produce them for this reason, which is very, very typical and expected and in fact was request by congress in this instance. so the lack of even attempted good faith compliance with the subpoenas is very, very clear from the indictment. >> do you think as a prosecutorial weapon this is going to compel others to appear? >> well, look, you know, contempt is -- it is rarely used, but it is oddly for our legal system it is coercive in nature. # the reason you have contempt charges to try to force the person to comply. and you'll notice although it is a misdemeanor not a felony the punishment requires a minimum of 30 days in custody. that's on each count. and he was charged with two counts here, not testifying and not producing documents. so the whole nature is coercive, and it is meant to try to get people to comply with the subpoena. so it may make no difference at all to steve bannon. he may be happy to go to jail, but it may make some difference for others who have been subpoena. >> well, happy to go to jail. carol, please standby. we're going to come back to you in a moment because soon we're going to learn the fate of kyle rittenhouse, the illinois teenager who killed two people and wounded a third during the unrest last summer in wisconsin. in fact the city is on edge as it reprayers for monday's closing arguments and ultimately a verdict in this very polarizing trail. allison, another welcome to you on this saturday. the jury was sent home for the weekend, but there's still some action expected at the courthouse today. what's that about? >> reporter: yeah, the judge is expected to make a decision on whether or not to accept the prosecution's request for lesser charges. he has indicated he is inclined to accept some but not all of them. he said he will probably not accept the lesser charges as it relates to the first person kyle rittenhouse shot and killed joseph rosenbaum, because he says he thinks that would be something would be overturned on appeal. but he did indicate in other instances he was open to accepting and inclined to accept the prosecution's request for lesser charges. that could be something like moving from intentional changing reckless homicide down to kind of a lesser charge there. so we're waiting to figure out exactly whether or not the judge will accept all of those requests, which requests he will accept. it was a complicated day in the courtroom yesterday as he went through all of those and went back and forth even arguing with the prosecution as they considered some of those different ideas, different suggestions. closing arguments are set to begin on monday. each side has 2 1/2 hours to make those arguments and then jury instructions will begin. alex? >> okay, good thank you for that. we'll wait to see what happens on that front. so back with me now msnbc legal analyst carol lam, and i want to tell our viewers you were also a judge because prosecutors requested that judge allow the jury to consider lesser versions yesterday. what does that tell you? and does it signal the prosecution losing some confidence? >> well, you know, that is a normal take away that if the prosecutors have asked the judge to include what we call lesser included offenses, and that means if the jury decides to acquit the defendant on a charged count, they can still -- they can still consider a lesser included offense if the judge so instructs them and find him guilty of something that doesn't have all the requirements of the charge count but still find him guilty of something, and that something probably carries a lesser penalty. when prosecutors do that, and, you know, no one really eknows entirely how the evidence is going to come in at trial. when prosecutors do that the take away generally is that they're willing to take a compromise verdict from the jury, you know, something lesser than they charged. but it's not that unusual for that to happen. and the defense is also given the opportunity to ask for lesser included offense. but in this case i think the defense decided, no, we're going to go for it, and we think he has a good chance of getting acquitted. >> so judge shroeder has become quite controversial in this trial. >> it's a mistake, well that's unusual not to have at least somebody in here. though, dr. black is what branch? i think we give a round of applause to people who served our country. all right, anything else? let's hope for 1:00. i don't know. i hope the asian food isn't coming -- isn't on one of those boats in long beach harbor. but let's aim for 1:00. >> if the court makes a finding that the actions that i had talked about -- ♪♪ >> -- were done in bad then i think both elements for mistrial -- >> i mean some of that was just weird. how do you view his actions the last couple of weeks? >> alex, despite popular sentiment judges do actually have personalities, and it's always a dangerous thing for judges to start ruminating on the bench and sort of talking out loud while they're thinking. and i think this judge has done that. it was a long trial. i think he's sort of known for doing that. he has strong opinions about things. i think what's important here is what was actually done in the presence of the jury and what wasn't done in the presence of the jury. i think a lot of his more unfortunate interactions with the prosecution were done outside the presence of the jury. and in that case although no prosecutor like to be berated by a judge, that's sort of par for the course. >> but it feels like he's been adversarial towards the prosecution, overall. do you think he's been a neutral umpire in this trial? >> there have been times when i felt that -- there was one time in particular the prosecution asked the defense be held to the same standard with the prosecution with respect to a prior ruling of the judge. and the judge basically said, well, when i signed that order i wasn't paying much attention to it. i'm paraphrasing here, but i don't see what the harm is. but i do think the judge is important to be perceived as a neutral arbitrator. but candidly it's safer for a judge to be harder on the prosecution because there's no appeal for a prosecutor if there's an acquittal. if there's an acquit double jeopardy attaches and the prosecution cannot appeal and say the prosecution wasn't fair to say. it's safer for the judge to pick on the prosecution. i think you could interpret this partly as the judge thinks the prosecution represents the state and has a -- you know, has the burden of proof and has a duty to be very professional and very straightforward and up front up things, but i do think he has been harder on the prosecution than he has on the defense. >> i look forward to see youing you again. meantime the sister of republican congressman paul gosar is going to join me next to talk about a violent video he tweeted this week and whether this is the brother she's always known. k and whether this is the brother she's always known. at t-mobile for business, unconventional thinking means we see things differently, so you can focus on what matters most. whether it's ensuring food arrives as fresh as when it departs... being first on the scene when every second counts... or teaching biology without a lab. we are the leader in 5g and a partner who delivers exceptional customer support and 5g included in every plan. so, you get it all, without trade-offs. unconventional thinking, it's better for business. new reaction to a violent video depict agrepublican congressman stabbing new york representative alexandria ocasio-cortez to death. congressman paul gosar shared an anime cartoon video depicting himself killing aoc and turning his sword on biden. congresswoman jack we're speer yesterday introduced a recommendation to censure gosar. >> we have censured members of congress for using unparliamentary language or criticizing the speaker. this goes far beyond that. >> kevin mccarthy said he wanted to -- and paul gosar is making these threats against alexandria ocasio-cortez. we have to take them at their word. >> so joining me aright now is jennifer gosar. she's paul gosar's sister and has been advocating that he should be held accountable for his actions. this can't be easy for you, jennifer, but i want to start with saying we're not showing the video here on msnbc, but what went through your mind when you saw it? >> it made my heart race. it made -- i turned red. i felt heat. i was nauseous, and i felt incensed, absolutely incensed, alex. horrified. >> jennifer, is this the brother that you always knew? and i'm curious when was the last time you spoke with him? >> years ago. it would be probably five or so years ago. this wasn't the brother i always knew. we are a family of ten. he is the first and i am the tenth. and when i was a little girl i would stay awake at night, the nights before he would come home from college waiting to see my golden property. i mean, i couldn't sleep. i would be so excited, wouldn't want to go to bed, just adored him. and he was by and large a sweeter -- a sweet person to me. so as a child that's what i knew of him. but for at least the past 12 years i've known him to be an outward bigot, xenophobe, misogynist and now fascist. >> 12 years, 5 years, i want to get to the time frame in a moment. but the congressman did not respond to msnbc's request for statement. he did confirm his office made the video and accusing detractors of gross mischaracterization. he's described the video as, quote, a symbolic cartoon adding the hero of the cartoon goes after the policy monster of open borders. so you're painting him as something of a villain, but he sees himself as a hereo, jennifer. do you, first of all, think he truly believes the things that he says? >> absolutely not, alex. absolutely not. it's just abject crap, and i would sure like to use the b.s. word right now because it's utter -- right? every statement even dating back to the conference he said he denounced talk about white racism. he wasn't actually just saying he doesn't want to talk -- he doesn't want to be connected with racism. what he was saying was that the opposite, he was continuing to communicate, and he continues to communicate with his brothers and sisters and other christian white nationalists because let's just say what it is. this is an enabled movement on multiple fronts. we have congressional leaders who are now what klan, because america first is our historical title and that dates back to the early part of the century of the 20th century where actually that phrase is used by the klan. and now we're overtly using that in the republican party. i want to distinguish between normal people that believe in conservative fiscal policy, government to those that are klansman. i don't believe they're blanket all of them. but it's clear more and more that the ranks of their fascism is overt, it is growing and they feel emboldened because no one holds them accountable. >> so jennifer, you say you noticed a sharp difference five years ago. i'm going to ask was there noticeable change in him after he met donald trump? was he ever someone, your brother i mean, to display any tacit diplomacy? we already know you can't explain that to donald trump. >> five years ago on a personal level i gave up, alex. there was going to be no personal level of sphere of influence i could exert or i had exerted any level of positive impact. so five years ago at a personal level i gave up. at this level now i'm reengaging to really to pull my brother out of a cult, right, to pull him out from enabling and empower the cult's continuous work because it's a very active, and although he's a buffoon when he talks, he's active and really engaging those people that want to hear that message. they want to feel better about themselves. they want to feel like they're not losing something. and so in that respect five years ago i gave up at a personal level. and now i'm reengaging, right, at a public level. 12 years ago was actually when i noticed a stark difference because he first ran for office, and he ran on a platform with connecting himself. and so as a person who's worked in very diverse spanish speaking communities for over 20 years now i was shocked, nauseated, aghast and horrified. so for me that change started actually prior to trump. it's only been more emboldened by and connected to trump. >> yeah. so i want to talk about your mom because she has sided with him. she was quoted in a 2018 interview, it was in "the new york times," saying she shared his philosophy and policy. and that was when he tweeted this in response. quote, you can't pick your family. what's mom saying now? >> you know, honestly, i don't -- i will deflect and i don't want to bring, you know, that part of our lives into it. because what i have heard over the past few years from people across the country as they say thank you, this is happening in my family and i'm struggling, you give me courage to keep -- push back, right? to keep bringing decency, to keep bringing integrity. and in that respect i think, you know, my mom whatever her views are, she is not in the public eye. she is not run for office. she has not espoused a phrase like wuhan virus that gets even our gold medalists like denisa sunisa lee it gets her pepper sprayed. walk in your communities and see how our asian neighbors and family members and friends are looking at the public. it seems to me palpable they're concerned. it hurts my heart that is how people live their daily lives. now, my mother has her right to her views. i don't agree with them. but i don't want to discuss her publicly because she's -- she's a woman living in her community live her life. she doesn't do those things that my brother does. and really my property deserves the spotlight for this. and i really actually want to spotlight the hand wringing, no action of like leadership. the censure, do you know what the censure really is? they will put him on the floor like a bad boy and read him the censure. they won't take away his committee. they won't do anything else. again you're seeing a double standard between him and marjory taylor green because at least -- >> you want to see more than censure for your brother? potentially moved from congress? well, that's something voters have to do but -- >> no, i don't think they have to actually. alex, i think there's actually a legal argument to be made. i am not a lawyer but i have talked to legal scholars. and what is true about this is that, yes, censure is an appropriate first step, agreed, let's go there. but let's actually give it some teeth. let's take away his committee assignments. he's a senior member in the house. they're not in the majority right now, but the minute that or when it would change, right, here he is again in the leadership position like holding for foreign affairs committee and others, right? so that's something to be very concerned of. the second thing is that the 14th amendment from what i understand, it's not so much that he would be expelled, that speaker pelosi can say from what scholars told me, there's no legal precedent on this matter, so it can be done, right? to say, no, sir, you have forfeited your seat in your conduct in conspiracy to commit treason and endanger and threaten the lives of a fellow member of the united states. you have forfeited your life to be an active member of congress. you either take me to court or get a two thirds vote to vote me back in. that is actually possible. and it's an avenue no one is really talking about that can be explored. >> you know what, jennifer, i'm going to wrap this up saying if you ever decided to run for congress you'd have my vote because you have extraordinary character. and i know this is very difficult for you, but you're seeing big picture. i hope you guys have a peaceful thanksgiving and i really appreciate your candor. thank you so much. coming up next, everyone, my guest is urging the president to make a move he says will help bring down gas prices. that story coming your way. pri. that story coming your way ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ ever notice how stiff clothes can feel rough on your skin? 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and is there any expectation for a time when costs will come down? >> reporter: well, you know what? that is anybody's guess at this point, alex, because a lot of analysts are saying, no, they do not expect inflation to come down anytime soon. they expect it to last until at least 2022, well into 2022, but inflation as you said it is at a 31-year high. inflation stands at 6.2%, and this is according to the bureau of labor and statists. in fact, here in the southeast which includes florida, that number is even higher at 7.2% jump since october of 2020. and as you said, you know, food prices have surged nearly 5.5%. americans are definitely feeling the pain at grocery stores. some of the items that have experienced the biggest surges including those staples like beef, chicken, dairy, eggs, sugar and coffee. and again, analysts say that you can expect to pay more this thanksgiving holiday and beyond. >> we anticipate this is going to last well into 2022. we actually -- you know, would have expect to see prices increase just a smidge more before they actually start coming down. but the supply chain constraint and the price inflation we anticipate seeing well into 2022. >> reporter: and americans are also feeling the pain at the pump. gas prices have hit their highest levels in about seven years. the current price for a gallon of unled nationwide $3.41. >> that's not even the size i've seen it here in new york and california here as well. thank you so much. joining me now is california congressman ro khanna, a democratic congressman of the house agriculture and oversight committees and also a deputy whip for the progressive caucus. i know you've been feeling the pinch certainly in california. when i was out there last i was like, what, filling up the car with gas. i want to talk about inflation overall and the gas prices. we're going to get to that in a moment. first, though, steve bannon is being indicted by a federal grand jury for contempt of congress. how dramatic of a move is this? does it send a message to anyone who's thinking of not cooperating with the committee? and do you think it ultimately compels more testimony from those key figures? >> alex, yes i do. it sends a message no american is above the law, that when congress asks for basic documents. when congress asks for you to testify, you comply. and what's important to realize here is steve bannon wasn't working at the white house. he wasn't even actually on the campaign. he was a private civilian. he should do what any american should do which is comply with congress' request. >> okay, and we will see what happens on monday. we know he'll be in court for an appearance then. let's go to the gas prices because right now the national average for gas is roughly $341. about a year ago it was $3.18. you have democrats calling to release supply from the strategic petroleum reserves. i think that's something you've supported, correct? haven't you talked about that? >> yes, alex, i have. i was back home all week. gas is almost $5. we need immediate leaf for the working class and middle class. the tapping of the strategic petroleum reserve would help. but the real long-term solution is to invest in renewable energy, electric vehicles. there was none of that investment over the last four years, and that's led to the volatility. if we had more electric vehicles, more renewable energy we wouldn't have this surge of dedemand and we'd have more price stability. right now given the crisis we need to have the strategic petroleum reserve tapped and put more pressure on opec. >> well, supply is not keeping up with demand. i know you recently confronted the ceos of the oil companies in a house oversight hearing. it was all about the fossil industry's efforts to mislead climate change. as these companies are struggling to meet demand, how do you balance roughing them up versus the role they must play in daily life right now? >> i don't think asking them to tell the truth is roughing them up. these oil companies weren't willing to say that past executives who had said burning fossil fuels doesn't cause climate change had said those statements are false. second, they all support the paris accords. under the paris accords you have to have some transition to renewable energy and electric vehicles. the european oil companies are reducing production 1% or 2% every year. that's a gradual decline. the problem here we haven't had that renewable energy or electric vehicle increase. so i would say let's double down on that. let's solve the immediate need but let's make sure we really have price stability in the future by investing in clean energy. >> okay, you're trying to hit on all fronts here. but when you and your house colleagues are trying to work next week the plan is to build back better. the complete analysis, that's going to take longer. your moderate colleagues demand to see the cbo score before they vote. so can you give us the potential time line, what that looks like right now to get that vote? >> here's what i don't understand, actually. they keep saying trust the president, trust the president. i don't understand why we're putting trust in this bureaucracy. the president's economists are much better. but in any case i believe they're going to get the scores, the relevant scores this week. speaker just sent out a dear colleague saying many of the scores are already in consistent with the president's numbers. and then we need to pass this because it's going to mean relief for the american working class. i mean it's going to be a tax cut for the working class. $300 for every family with kids per child of the earned income tax credit which is a working class tax credit cut. so basically you're putting more money in the pockets of folks struggling with higher prices. >> yeah. and, you know, in good faith you voted to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill last week. did you have some sort of assurance senator joe manchin was onboard with build back better? sore was it urgent enough to pass infrastructure that it didn't matter in that moment? >> we had the assurance of the white house, the president who said here is the framework, $1.75 trillion. it's going to have child care, money for climate, the biggest investment in climate ever. it's going to help seniors. and i had the commitment of 50 senators on this framework. and when i've spoken personally to senator manchin i'm convinced he wants this to succeed. >> six of your progressive colleagues voted against the infrastructure bill. they were apparently not convinced of senators manchin and kyrsten sinema in agreement there. do you understand their position? >> i do. i respect them. i mean, first of all, they wanted $40 billion for lead pipes, what it will take to really solve the issue. the bipartisan infrastructure bill had $15 billion. i thought it was a step forward but they want more. and they understand the build back better bill is so necessary for their districts, for making sure that it helps working families. so what they're saying is we need to make sure that we deliver the entirety of the president's agenda. i'm convinced we will, and i'm hopeful we'll have a unanimous democratic vote on the build back better bill. >> and that could happen when? can you guesstimate when that could happen in the house? >> it should happen soon after thanksgiving if not before. i know we've made tremendous progress. the committees are on the same page. i'm actually not that concerned on the house. i think the speaker always delivers the house. she's a masterful legislator. i don't know how she does it. time and again she delivers. and i'm confident the president will be able to do it with senator schumer in the senate. >> okay. congressman ro khanna, if i do not speak with you before thanksgiving, have a wonderful one and i'm thankful every time you're on this program. >> i'm thankful for you, alex. have a wonderful thanksgiving. inside the grand jury's decision to indict steve bannon, what it could mean for other members of trump's circle. d mear members of trump's circle. i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? 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(swords clashing) -had enough? -no... arthritis. here. new aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme. hearing is important to living life to the fullest. that's why inside every miracle-ear store, you'll find a better life. it all starts with the most innovative technology. like the new miracle-earmini, available exclusively at miracle-ear. so small that no one will see it, but you'll notice the difference. and now, miracle-ear is offering a thirty-day risk-free trial. you can experience better hearing with no obligation. call 1-800-miracle right now and experience a better life. there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems,...and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ask your doctor about once-monthly cabenuva. criminal charges against former trump advisor steve bannon for contempt of congress comes as more ex-trump aides are subpoenaed in the house investigation into the january 6th attack on the capitol. a federal grand jury indicted to former white house chief strategist on two counts for contempt of congress. one for refusing a subpoena to testify in front of the committee. the other for refusing to supply documents requested by the panel. it's the first time someone has been prosecuted for contempt of congress when executive privilege has been asserted. for more i'm joined by ana shekter, an nbc news senior investigative producer and meredith mcgraw. ladies, welcome to you both. bannon expected to turn himself in on monday. that's going to be a pretty shocking sight. what message do you think the committees are trying to send by following through on these contempt charges? >> this is so interesting because steve bannon had been so delighted and thrilled to be at the center of trump world early on before -- before the election. and then he was sort of excomuneicated and wound up spending time in europe fomenting the right and trying to stir up the far right fervor to expel migrants from countries all across europe. and so this indictment is so interesting. it's indicative of him coming back to the u.s., further trying to ingratiate himself with trump world. he's looking to the future and i'm talking to january 6th and the lead up to january 6th this time. and he probably sees this our adjacent being trump world ajace want looking forward. so by him refusing these subpoenas this is going to raise his profile amongst the maga crowd, which is what he wanted to stay close to. so we can look to others, yeah. >> what about mark meadows? he failed to appear for that scheduled deposition in front of the house committee friday. what are the chances trump's former white house chief of staff could face similar charges to bannon? >> well, we have to wait to see how the reporting comes through because we have a long list not only meadows but others who were close to trump who are getting subpoenas and we'll have to see one by one who's responding to them and who's not. so it's a fascinating time right now, and monday is going to be a big day to see -- and to see those pictures, too, of steve bannon back in the spotlight. it might be where he wants to be. he enjoys going against the grain and fighting against anything he sees as the left he wants to fight against. >> so in terms of seeing who's coming, meredith, another 16 ex-trump aides were subpoenaed this week and that includes trump's former press secretary, so what are the chances they're going to be more willing to cooperate after seeing what's happened to steve bannon? >> i think the message the committee has been trying to send especially with the indictment brought against bannon is that nobody here is above the law, and they're asking all of these people to -- to respond to their subpoenas and to respond to their requests and to follow through. but the former president has made clear to his former aides, his advisors, anybody who's been caught up in this that they should follow his lead in exerting executive privilege over all of this. can he wants to take this all the way to the supreme court if that's necessary. and in some ways that's going to slow roll this whole process. >> meredith, i'm curious, what has been the reaction to donald trump not condemning the people on january 6th who went to the capitol shouting hang mike pence? >> so this week john carl, an abc news correspondent, he's coming out with a new book and he released some audio. and in that audio of his interview with trump he asks the former president what he made of those chants, "hang mike pence." and trump said it was common sense and he defended those people for making those comments. it really is pretty remarkable to listen to. and especially as we're leading up into mid-term elections, and as the former president and even the vice president himself are thinking about a potential run for president, too, there's some, you know, political challenges there. but the audio is really remarkable to listen to and trump doesn't back down and he does defend these people who were, you know, putting the vice president's life in danger. >> it is utterly shocking, in fact. ladies, thank you so much. you want it, you got it. the message one state is sending about booster shots as officials see an uptick in covid cases coming your way in the next hour. coming your way in the next hour (calls dog) buttercup... 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