august in which he shot three people, killing two of them. it happened during unrest in kenosha that followed the police shooting of jacob blake. just months after george floyd's killing in minneapolis. >> once i take that step back i look over my shoulder and mr. rosenbaum was now running from my right side and i was cornered from in front of me with mr. ziminski and there were people right there. >> take a deep breath, kyle. >> rittenhouse told jurors he feared for his own life before he decided to open fire. >> did mr. rosenbaum say anything to you? >> no, he instructed mr. rosenbaum to get him and kill him. that's what i heard. >> and you were running what has been referred to the southwest corner? >> yes. >> in addition to rittenhouse's testimony heated exchangexchang. we also heard surprising testimony from another witness about one of the victims. rittenhouse's trial sparks debate about what constitutes self-defense. got a lot to unpack here. gabe gutierrez following the trial with us from kenosha, wisconsin. danny and paul butler and danny having a lot of experience on the defense side of things and paul on the prosecuting side of things. gabe, let me start with you. you were wrapping up the last hour telling us about the moment that jurors saw. but i'd like you to take us a step further before kyle rittenhouse took the stand, the defense had one of those moments that had to make them gulp when testimony that they thought was going to take place did not. explain the moment. >> yeah, chuck. so, yes, a lot of drama in this courtroom behind me today. we'll start with that. we'll start with what happened earlier this morning with the defense calling one of its witnesses. the roommate of gage grauszkreutz. he was the third man that rittenhouse shot and wounded. but this witness had said in a conversation with his roommate, he said that he posted on social media that he wished he could have killed rittenhouse. when he got on the witness stand and the defense was asking about that, he essentially said he'd lie. he said he had made up the whole thing because of some threats that he had been receiving and that his roommate had been receiving and that he said it was a bad call but that he made it up. now, chuck, you watched movies about the testimony and all of a sudden a witness gets up there and says something that stuns the courtroom or doesn't go the way the counselor was expecting, that is kind of what happens. the defense said no further questions and that was unexpected. but the headline today is this testimony from kyle rittenhouse very emotional as you just heard and a lot to unpack there. he used words that he felt like he was ambushed. this was something he was trying to paint the case of self-defense. also asked about why he got an ar-15 style rifle. he was asked whether he knew he wasn't supposed to have it as a 17-year-old. he tried to argue that he couldn't have a pistol but picked out the ar-15 because, quote, he thought it looked cool. so, that's a line of questioning that the prosecution was trying to get at. one other thing i want to point out, chuck. this is something that covering this case from the very beginning. following the police shooting of jacob blake. right now or just at the end of the defense's questioning of rittenhouse, they talked about when he left the scene. when he had shot those three people and killed two of them. when he left the scene, the defense tried to make it clear that rittenhouse intended to turn himself in. but you'll remember, chuck, rittenhouse left the scene and turned himself hours later, the next day, to the antioch police department. part of the reason this attracted so much attention, chuck, in this cases hit on all the hot button issues, excuse me, throughout the country of second amendment, self-defense, vigil anteism and i was speaking with jacob blake's family following the shooting and they were furious that kyle rittenhouse was able to leave the scene and they contended that kyle rittenhouse would not have been allowed to leave if he had not been white. if he had been black, for example. that came up in the sense that rittenhouse claims that he was told by a police officer on the scene to get back and basically to go home. and someone questioned whether he would have been allowed to do that if, you know, he had been black. but rittenhouse contending that he wanted to turn himself in and he just couldn't because the police department in kenosha was blocked off. the police department had previously said it was a very chaotic scene and they were trying to figure stuff out. they didn't know rittenhouse was the one who had pulled the trigger. a lot to unpack. we're now in recess. kyle rittenhouse expected to come back and keep testifying after breaking down on the witness stand. according to a reporter inside that courtroom, the jury looking at him sympathetically during that testimony when he broke down, chuck. >> gabe gutierrez, i know you have more reporting. i'll let you go. paul and danny, i want to play those two moments that gabe described. basically his testimony regarding what he did before shooting mr. rosenbaum and what he did after. let me play the control four and five, if we could role those bites together, please. >> during the evening, was there any friction between your group and protesters/rioters? >> no. the only type of stuff that happened was the person that attacked me first threatened to kill me twice. >> okay. >> and the person who threatened to kill you we now know as mr. rosenbaum. >> yes. >> before august 5th of 2020, had you ever seen him before? >> i did not. >> did you do anything to upset him? >> no. >> after he throws the bag and he continues to run, he's gaining speed on me. a gunshot is fired from behind me directly behind me. and i take a few steps and that's when i turn around and as i'm turning around mr. rosenbaum is, i would say from me to where the judge is coming at me with his arms out in front of him, i remember his hand on the barrel of my gun. >> and why didn't you just keep running? >> when i was over there, there were about 100 people surrounding those cars and there was no space for me to continue to run to. >> okay. so you turned around? >> yes. >> and as you see him lunging at you, what do you do? >> i shoot him. >> and how many times did you shoot? >> i believe four. >> paul butler, let me start with you on the prosecution side of things and start with and we'll work our way backwards here a little bit. it's pretty clear and it's been pretty clear throughout this trial that the judge has not been on the prosecution's side. we can't say whether they have been on the defense side, but it's been i think a pretty tough time for the prosecution in general. it feels like the prosecution doesn't care. that they've really tangled with the judge. i was shocked when i heard a prosecutor say to a judge, stop interrupting me. just sort of blew me away. i don't think i had seen that before. paul, your reaction. >> the prosecutor faces an uphill battle in this trial, chuck. they may be going -- when we look at these, a defendant has a constitutional right not to testify. they can't comment on that silence in front of the jury. so, the judge and the defense thought that the prosecutor was trying to get the jury to confer that rittenhouse was hiding something from the police. that could be grounds for a mistrial. because this case appears to be going well for the defense, they may actually want the case to go to the jury, if they think that rittenhouse will be found not guilty. >> what do you think, paul, i mean, there's more that the prosecutor is going to be able to do on cross-examination. what do you think the prosecution needs to accomplish going forward now? >> so, chuck, the prosecution has presented mr. rittenhouse as a trigger happy, vigil ante. on direct examination from his own defense attorney, rittenhouse came across more like a boy scout who was there to provide medical aid. what the prosecution has to do now is to dirty rittenhouse up. evidence that the judge won't allow. part of the concern and controversy this afternoon was about an earlier incident in which rittenhouse sees people who he thinks are looting at a cvs and he says i wish i had my gun so i could shoot them. the judge won't allow the jury to hear that evidence. >> let me play some of this back and forth between the judge and the prosecution. again, you know, it's not something you see every day, particularly between the prosecution or prosecutor and a judge. you sometimes see this between a defense attorney and a judge. let me play these back and forths. number seven and number eight, guys. >> he's commenting on my client's right to remain silent. >> no, your honor. i am making the point that after hearing everything in the case, now he's tailoring his story. to what has already been introduced. >> the problem is, this is a grave constitutional violation for you to talk about the defendant's silence and that is in your right. you're right on the borderline and you may, you may be over. but it better stop. >> understood. >> first of all, your honor, this was the subject of the motion. i'm well aware of that and the court left the door open. >> for me. not for you. >> my understanding -- >> you should have come and asked for reconsideration. i indicated a bias towards denial is what i did. held it open with a bias towards denial. why would you think that that made it okay for you, without any advance notice to bring this matter before the jury? you are already, you are, i was astonished when you began your examination by commenting on the defendant's post-arrest silence. that's basic law. it's been basic law in this country for 40 years, 50 years. >> danny, i'm sure it's not the first time that a judge has reprimanded either a prosecutor or a defense attorney. i guess are you surprised that wasn't done in chamber? are you surprised they didn't bring him before it. done that blatantly in front of the jury, wow. >> chuck, that's why you have me here today. this is the one area i'm an expert in. getting yelled at like a judge. if that judge is watching, you know exactly who you are. it happened to me fairly often, maybe not to mr. butler. but in this case, it was well deserved. you saw the reasons and kind of legal concepts if you're not someone who watches a lot of court tv or court events. but i mean we're talking about bed rock rules. the judge is right. propensity evidence, character evidence as we call it. you can't introduce bad things that a defendant did in the past and say, oh, he did bad things before. he's doing bad things this time. and the other things and other bed rock principle. you can't comment on post-arrest silence. a lot of folks know that. all lawyers trying a case, especially a prosecutor this experienced knows without question that you cannot even comment on post-arrest silence. no more than you can stand up in closing and say something like the defendant could have testified and he didn't. that would be an immediate grounds for mistrial. it's grounds for a mistrial here and you notice the magic word the defense used. if it's granted with prejudice then jeopardy could attach and no retrial in that event and it can't happen if it's the result of prosecutorial misconduct. then you could have that jeopardy attached and no retrial. >> and, danny, before rittenhouse took the stand, i would have been asking you. how do you, how do you not find out until you bring a witness that you've deposed supposedly and you know what they're going to say and you put them on the stand and they don't say what you think they're going to say. that seemed like malpractice. >> that is the worst thing to happen. no amount of preparation you find with witnesses. no matter how often you speak to them. you don't know what they're going to say when you get up there. i'm sure paul had this experience, too. you're rock solid on what you think your witness will say. they get up there and say something totally different. when that happens you can see us lawyers shuffling ahead in our papers and asking ourselves, do we really have any more questions or is it time to bail? >> i've done that myself with questions. oh, that's what they're going to do. okay then. segment's over. paul butler, look, i'm curious -- you said something earlier about, hey, they have to sort of change the narrative on kyle rittenhouse here. he went down the road of video games. that seemed like a dead end. and it didn't seem to get at what i think most people are wondering, which is why did you put yourself in that position in the first place and you're 17 years old. you know, who thought that was a good idea? but they haven't -- it doesn't feel like they have gotten to that point yet. what are your thoughts? >> i think you're right, chuck. so, the video games were, the conversation about video games was designed to present mr. rittenhouse as this person who assumes a persona and playing these video games where he shoots all these folks. i'm not sure how effective that was. the jury has to decide whether mr. rittenhouse was the aggressor in this case. if he started the fights with the three people who he shot, he can't claim self-defense. but if rittenhouse was attacked first, then he is entitled to use force to save his own life. the prosecution is, again, trying to present a picture of this teenager who was reckless and a little bit trigger happy but i think the defense is doing an effective job of countering that narrative about mr. rittenhouse. >> danny cevallos and paul butter, you have been invaluable to us. as always, i appreciate your expertise to us. thank you. msnbc coverage of this trial will continue. the second testimony resumes after lunch, which we just found out from the judge will be approximately 2:00 p.m. eastern. coming up, the incendiary videos and repeated election lies. the toxic environment within the republican party driven in part by donald trump is making capitol hill a place qualified candidates want to avoid. later as president biden heads to baltimore to sell his plan, making the road more treacherous for his agenda. the mid terms less than a year away. you're watching "meet the press daily." . hi. i'm noninvasive and i detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers, even in early stages. early stages! yep, it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. count me in! me too! at t-mobile for business, unconventional thinking means we count me in! see things differently, so you can focus on what matters most. whether it's ensuring food arrives as fresh as when it departs... being first on the scene when every second counts... or teaching biology without a lab. we are the leader in 5g and a partner who delivers 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[ ferry horn honks ] i mean just cause you look like someone else doesn't mean you eat off the floor, [ chuckles ] or yell at the vacuum, or need flea medication. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ we are back. the last 48 hours has beignet another stark reminder that a brand of toxic politics is truly ascendant right now, especially on the right. it's also been a reminder of how moderate republicans are really just sort of anybody who isn't part of the radical right over here are being squeezed by these toxic political forces or in congressman fred upton's case being threatened. he was one of 13 house republicans and 19 senate republicans who voted for president biden's bipartisan infrastructure bill, literally a bill that goes to bridges and roads. very controversial things as you might know. those republicans are now facing a backlash from former president trump. congressman upton says received death throats following his votes. we will play you part of a voicemail that they shared with us here at msnbc news. it contains offensive and disturbing language and we don't want to amplify hate speech but considering the degree to which the political environment has turned this toxic and potentially dangerous, we thought it was important for viewers to hear it. you need to hear this. >> traitor. that's what you are, you're a [ bleep ] piece traitor. i hope you die. i hope everyone in your family dies. you [ bleep ] people voted for dumb [ bleep ]. you're -- >> i hope former president trump is proud of this moment. the threats against congressman upton comes as paul gossar is not apologizing but doubling down showing him killing -- all comes as the former president raised money for the house republicans on monday by reportedly telling donors that the real insurrection took place on election day. all of this comes as liz cheney continues to beg her party to change course. here she was again yesterday. >> i love my party. i love its history and i love its principles. but i love my country more. i know this nation needs a republican party that is based on truth. one that puts forward our ideals and our policies based on substance. one that is willing to reject the former president's lies. one that is willing to tell the truth. that millions of americans have been tragically misled by former president trump who continues to this day to use language that he knows provoked violence on january 6th. >> i should note she was receiving an award that happened to be given in the state of new hampshire, home of presidential politics. folks, though, in this environment no wonder that a republican widely views as a reasonable and experienced member of the party does not want to come to washington but a celebrity tv physician who traffics sometimes in some odd remedies, shall we say, like dr. oz reportedly does. all add up to a recruitment problem for republicans. bigger than that, a problem for our democracy and we'll have more on that, next. ke you can act quickly. that's decision tech, only from fidelity. 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rationale and everyone in america said of course. the toxicity in american politics and repercussions in congress and on the campaign trail. joining me on capitol hill and also with us the "boston globe" james and following the chris sununu decision very carefully. cook political report jessica taylor and former rnc chair and msnbc political analyst and potential candidate for office and i say this because that's why i'm having you on mr. steele. it's michael steele. let me start with sahil and let me start with something here because a statement put out that comes across as very normal when it comes to mr. paul gossar and his video that showed him killing a co-worker. as they said here in any other job in america if a co-worker made a video killing another co-worker, that person would be fired. mr. mccarthy needs to decide if he will stand with the american people on the side of law and order or continue to support viilous and chaos. for about a month when marjorie taylor-green came in you could argue for a few moments last cycle during the whole steve king, kevin mccarthy would at least try to discipline some of these crazy radical members. is there an effort now? i mean, it looks like there has been nothing, not a word said by leadership here in any significant way. >> that is correct, chuck. it has been radio silence and nbc news has reached out to kevin mccarthy's office to ask about this gosar tweet which appears he has taken down yesterday without responding to it. mccarthy has not said anything. meantime, the far right members of the caucus who have been more aggressive lately. marjorie taylor green targeting the 13 republicans who voted for that infrastructure bill calling them traitors. which by the way happens to be the word a caller issuing death threats used multiple times in that call. it is a staggering reflection of how poisonous and tribal politics have become in washington that a bipartisan bill so thoroughly bipartisan it was written with the help of mitch mcconnell, rob portman, lindsey graham to build roads and bridges is now getting, is now motivating people to issue threats to their members of congress. why? because it goes to joe biden's desk. that is a bridge too far for some people. that's how far things have moved. by the way, mccarthy has not weighed in on upton either. >> not at all. that's his own member, right? that's his side but i guess he's retiring and he voted for impeachment so he can't get caught helping him. is it that tribal? wrong side of trump. >> he certainly wants to stay on the right side of trump. that is a big part of mccarthy's calculation. speaker 12 months from now and he believes he needs donald trump's support to do it. he criticized this infrastructure bill multiple times but has not offered a criticism of it. he called for a bill twice this size that would includes roads, bridges, public transit and written by the same group of people who developed this bill. regardless if he or joe biden won that election. you have to think of the message this sends to phil scott in vermont and governors being recruited by republicans to run for senate. what do they think when they look upon congress and voting for a bipartisan infrastructure bill gets you this response from members of your base. >> sahil, as if you're anchoring this segment. that's a terrific transition. james, look, i have been hearing for months that chris sununu's issue was not whether he wanted to get into a tough campaign with maggie, but whether what would happen if he actually won and the single biggest impediment was what was he going to do when he got there. i would like to remind him his father served in the senate and father was a white house chief of staff. both guys know washington well and i'm guessing they gave him the blunt truth. >> that's right, chuck. i think the important thing also to remember for a lot of people in america, of course, you want to stay in the state capital. why would he want to go to washington or even here in massachusetts you have charlie baker, a very popular governor who has no national ambitions and wants to stay in massachusetts. chris sununu made it very clear. this is the most fascinating part of yesterday's surprise announcement. he does have national ambitions. i don't know if he's going to run for president. he's not rejecting washington. he's rejecting the senate and serving in the senate. so, his bet is that the way you advance in american politics in say four or eight years is to not be in the senate, which, of course, has been the path and the entire incentive system to how you raise low dollar fund-raiing and national name recognition is to do that. he is making the opposite bet for the future of the american party. >> it's still a pretty good bet historically until barack obama not a single sitting u.s. senator in my lifetime that had made it to the presidency. so it's still a pretty good bet. pretty quickly, james, this doesn't make maggie hassen less vulnerable. but is it because the primary can get so trumpy in new hampshire that the best general election candidates don't want to do this? >> that's exactly it, trump is a factor. two things are true and i'll be short about it. republicans were left yesterday without a plan b. absolutely no one stepping up to run as a major candidate to be back by washington to get the major money. the second thing is maggie hassen still the most vulnerable democrat in the united states senate and be true even if she had as one person put it, a b minus candidate running as a republican, still a very competitive race. >> it's still the environment and in some ways running against a sitting governor could have diluted the referendum aspect of the campaign. there's actually a mediocre track record for sitting governors sometimes challenging sitting senators. jessica taylor, this is your, you're always tracking to see who is next. i looked at yesterday and said, oh, chris sununu is out and dr. oz is in. this is why we think it's not a slam dunk. >> it was sort of whip lash yesterday. republicans and democrats that i talked to yesterday even the day before, you know, certainly some hesitation among sununu. they largely expected him to run. as james said, there really wasn't a plan b and the next possible and it was so quickly said that she wasn't going to run. and then you have all of these very messy primaries in states that republicans have to keep in their column. i think pennsylvania is one that is shaping up to be that because republicans are looking for an alternate candidate after donald trump has endorsed and in the midst of a child custody hearing where his ex-wife has alleged that he was abusive towards her and their children. the testimony is just absolutely brutal. and, you know, but the type of candidate that they wanted to get in is not a dr. oz type candidate by any means. when i look at the map, there are slightly more openings for, there are 20 republican seats up compared to 14 for democrats. and those five open seats that republicans have to keep in their column, pennsylvania, north carolina, ohio also an incredibly just messy primary where they're running to be how extreme they are. it's not hard to imagine that chris sununu may not want to be in the same type of senate with brooks from alabama or j.d. vance and eric from missouri. but we also do have to look at the fact that just this environment as we saw last week where we saw, you know, a 12-point swing in virginia. a 14-point swing in new jersey is very bad. and, you know, you can get b/c candidates that can win. we are going to be doing an overview that goes on friday and virginia/new jersey take and while the recruitment has not been good for republicans, the environment is very bad for democrats right now. >> i'm curious. going on this whole, is nevada the only senate race in the real battle ground where trump and mcconnell aren't fully at odds? >> well, even in georgia, though, you have some hesitancy with herschel walker early on. >> i don't count that, but i hear you. >> they do seem to have rallied around. arizona very late primary, you know. i'm not sure with trump continuing to bash him after 2020 he wants his swan song to probably be losing in a primary, even if he gets in. >> well, this brings me to you, michael steele. and look i know you have been unapologetic about your feelings about trump and if you run for governor of maryland in a republican primary, you're not changing your views on him. but i'm curious, is there a part of you that worries you may be banging your head against a wall? >> well, that's always the case. it was the case in 2002 when i ran for lieutenant governor with bob burlick. running against the democratic establishment. you always have that sense, yeah, i'm going to bang my head up against the wall whether a general election or primary. what this panel really draws out at the very end of it is how much more like the house the senate may become. and that's why you have a lot of very highly qualified, very capable, smart, very traditional republican candidates like sununu saying i think i'm going to stay in the governorship. when i look at a race in maryland, i have to look at it through the same lenses as a primary situation as any republican would given what seemingly the republican base is endorsing and supporting. but at the end of the day, you're still left with the fundamental question. can you win a general? you can win a primary all day long, but baby that's not the game. the game is winning the governorship. the game is winning the u.s. senate race. and that's where the republican party, i think, has enormous potential to lose ground. because it's playing a very short myopic game out of fear for trump and it raises a lot of money. when it's all said and done, if you don't have good quality, caliber candidates who can actually govern at the senate, house and state level, guess what happens in the next and future cycles. that's actually where someone like larry hogan has proven here in maryland what good republican governance can look like. now the question becomes for both the party and the state, do we want more of that? >> you know, here's the issue i feel like you're going to run into in your primary, michael. you know you'll have somebody that is going to think, oh, the easiest way for me to beat you beat michael steele is to play the trump card in a primary. i know you're going to make the argument, who else can win a general election and i think you have a strong argument there. but that is a logical argument. logic is not working. i'm not even saying it to get a laugh. look at the fred upton attacks. none of this is logical. this is about bridges and roads. these are bills every one of these republicans would have supported had donald trump signed the bill. right. literally the exact same bill. so, it's illogical, but it could work. what do you do? >> it could. but you still got to run the race, baby. i just can't deal with the position of what may be. if i get in the race, i'm going to run the race. i have a record here in the state as a county chairman, as a state chairman here in maryland. as an activist. my credentials as a conservative have not changed and my views on trump and that has nothing to do with the kind of republican i am or the kind of leadership i bring. and so, yeah, you have to still run the race. you still have to make the case to the base, such as it is. but i think the base is bigger than just those who are screaming trump or for trump. and that's part of any challenge whether you're in massachusetts or maryland that you're going to have to play out is, okay, identifying your base, raising that base in such a way that you can get to that primary and then going into a general election against what in this state will be, you know, a challenge because we're outnumbered 2-1, chuck, as you know here in maryland. but larry hogan, charlie baker and other republican governors out there have held up a light that i think the party needs to follow and pay attention to. add to that now glenn youngkin in virginia and we'll see how this narrative plays out. >> are you concerned, though, if you're the nominee you get through this because you do convince enough right leaning independents and all those to maybe get into your primary and do this but the brand of the party is a guy like kevin mccarthy not doing a thing about paul gosar and mitch mcconnell staying silent and things like that. you know, there seems to be a lot of appeasement. look at the let's go brandon chant. >> sure. >> i'm sorry. on the floor of the congress, you know, on of the floor of the united states represents and people think this is funny to do. come on. >> i agree. none of those people live in my state and they're not my constituents and so i'm not going to run my race based on what some republican does else where. what i'm going to run the race on, if i run it, is going to be the value i bring to the citizens of the state, the opportunities to deal with our economy and our school system and a post-covid environment and to make sure that that's the messaging, the conversation i have. we like to nationalize races particularly for those of us in the dmv because we're in the center of all the national politics. people live their lives differently on the ground here than they do in places like washington and in the official washington. i know how we live in my parents' neighborhood in d.c. but i'm not going to put that in front of me what i'll put in front of me are what the people of the state want and those republicans who want to, you know, have their crazy fun slogans do it else where and not in my backyard. >> jessica, james, michael, big panel on what we think is a pretty big topic. anyway, thank you all. appreciate it. up next, inflation. soars to levels not seen in three decades. driving up prices on items that consumers run on every day and eaten into all the wage gains we had seen. major problem for the white house as president biden heads to baltimore to talk infrastructure and supply chain issue. you're watching "meet the press daily." that guy needs to chill out! ♪ say it's all right ♪ ♪ say it's all right, it's all right ♪ ♪ have a good time 'cause it's all right ♪ ♪ now listen to the beat ♪ ♪ kinda pat your feet ♪ ♪ it's all right ♪ ♪ have a good time 'cause it's all right ♪ ♪ oh, it's all right ♪ there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include 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forecast hitting highest levels in three decades with everything costing more and eating totally into wage gains we have been seeing. senator manchin made it clear that he is concerned this build back better bill could worsen inflation and today's news could delay getting the agenda passed. mike is in baltimore ahead of the president's visit and joins me now and stephanie. i want to quote somebody from "new york times" who said free joe biden. so, i guess this is event one. is this going to be, are they going to do events outside the mid atlantic or stick to the pennsylvania/maryland zone? >> interesting question, chuck. we heard the president is hitting the road and that's not always translated into results. but this is an interesting sort of choice in terms of the first event of the bipartisan infrastructure road show. if you had asked me in march, you know, what is it going to look like and how is the president going to celebrate when he passes this? i would say maybe a high-speed rail project in the midwest and maybe a highway project in ohio and maybe a bridge in cincinnati. and instead i think this tells you everything about the political pressures that they're facing. it's a port project in baltimore. part of that is about the supply chain challenge which is a real political drag on them right now. and part of that is because they're really looking for some good news and in the port of baltimore actually a story to tell here about sort of public private partnership and where investing is already delivering results because the problems that they're facing are mainly out west at the port of los angeles and the port of long beach. the port of baltimore because they deepened the port here and because there's a big rail project actually that will allow them to double the capacity that they're able to off load here this is an example that the president will come and say government investment where the president will say the government working with the private sector can deal with issues. this is sort of an example the president can point to, to some good news. but we know there's a lot of bad news. in terms of the road show, i think you'll see much more of the cabinet hitting the road than the president. part of that will be because the president will be dealing with the sausage-making here in washington. sean patrick maloney is sounding a public alarm bell and i think the white house is hearing it because i think you'll hear some administration officials later in the day. >> chuck? >> i think they want actual members of congress there. go ahead, steph. >> i would point out one of the stories they'll tell at these ports, listen, we're going to clear up the logjams with cargo ships. the problems continue, we've got a trucking shortage. then when those trucks make their way to the mall, there's not enough people in retail jobs. so the question the administration hasn't answered. we're going to be creating millions of jobs. news flash, millions of jobs are open right now and going unfilled and nobody is answering why. the way we're getting some jobs filled is increasing wages. wages get increased, which is what we all rooted for, what are businesses doing on the other side of that? they're then charging us more for everything we buy and we're going, oh, my gosh, look at prices. >> mike, let me let you go here, but let me let you go on this out question, which is, the white house has tried to -- i don't want to say they've dismissed the inflation issue but they've tried to minimize it, oh, it's temporary. oh, it's this. i say, even if this is temporarily eating a bigger bite out of my paycheck, that isn't money i get back later. do they acknowledge they've got to feel the inflation pain a little better here? >> yeah, because they've been talking about the as transitory, that's the term of art. but in fact more and more estimates are showing that that's not the case. the other thing you hear from administration officials is this is a year over year increase. prices decreased last year because of the pandemic. ultimately they're trying to make the argument that it's the pandemic, stupid, not the inflation, stupid. but one of the key votes here holding up the reconciliation bill, as you related, joe manchin, he's concerned about inflation. that's the audience of one that they have to make that case to. >> memoli, i'll let you go. stephanie, let's finish this up. so we've got the wage gains, increases in prices, that eats back into the wage gains. what stops this circular sort of spiraling upwards of inflation? what puts a halt to it? >> listen, michael is not wrong. this is not inflation in isolation. this is 100% connected to covid. and we should remind our audience, and frankly the administration should as well, they knew it was going to be a complicated and bumpy economic recovery. that's why we have expanded child tax credit. you've got families of 60 million children in this country getting on average $460 a month because of that. you're worried about people on fixed incomes, all of us are, but come next year that inflation adjustment will be up 5.9%. so they've made those adjustments. they knew this was going to be rocky. but the question, well, when are prices going to go back down, here's the dirty little secret. why would they? there's a record amount of household savings in this country. we might not like these high prices but we're lining up to pay it. we've got booming consumer demand, we have booming consumer spending. you're right, we can't get a new dishwasher because an enormous amount of people are renovating their kitchens because they've saved so much in the last year. >> is there anything the fed can do? >> yes. >> is there anything the fed should do, let me put it that way. >> absolutely. and there's huge criticisms of jay powell that yes, the fed was massively accommodating in the darkest days of covid and they probably should be. but we're clearly in a strong economic recovery. why the fed is continuing to buy up paper, buy up stocks and bonds, over the next year, keep rates as low as they are, doesn't make a lot of sense. when you've got the federal reserve, when you've got wall street cheering on what the fed is doing, and the far left cheering on what the fed is doing, you have an enormous amount of people in the middle going, uh, this is too much. >> so, bottom line is, this is something that this has got to just work itself out, and, you know, the democrats are the ones in charge so they're going to pay the price of this sort of short term economic frustration? >> and it's unfortunate, but the democrats don't do a great job of telling their economic story. yes, this inflation number is not a good one. but they've got a great economic story to tell, right? 5 million jobs created. 200 million people vaccinated. those vaccine numbers tie directly to the economy. you couldn't open the economy without getting america healthy again. we are seeing economic recovery. what the biden administration isn't doing is selling that, and they can. >> where are we going to get the workers for these service sector jobs? doesn't this have to come from immigration at this point, since it's pretty clear we don't have americans that will do these jobs? >> yes. you just nailed it, chuck. and that's going to take some time. i said it before, everyone is saying, oh, my gosh, these infrastructure projects are going to create jobs. what we need is, who are the people who are going to fill those jobs? nobody's answered that. >> and it's a huge problem. and i do think maybe it's something that can unlock the immigration stalemate. who knows? stephanie ruhle, always great to have you. thank you. >> great to be here. >> you can always catch stephanie 9:00 a.m. weekdays right here on msnbc, a great way to start the day. that does it for us this hour. we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press daily." msnbc coverage 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progress, we must keep taking steps forward. we believe the future of energy is lower carbon. and to get there, the world needs to reduce global emissions. at chevron, we're taking action. tying our executives' pay to lowering the carbon emissions intensity of our operations. it's tempting to see how far we've come. but it's only human... to know how far we have to go. good to be with you. i'm chris jansing, and we are waiting for the resumption, any time now, of what has been a highly emotional and at times incredibly contentious afternoon at the kyle rittenhouse trial. rittenhouse took the stand to defend himself against homicide charges. he's accused of shooting and killing two men and injuring another during racial protests in kenosha. rittenhouse remained composed under questioning from his lawyer until he started talking about the moments just before the shooting. >> i look over my shoulder and mr. rosenbaum, mr. rosenbaum was now running from my right side, umm, and i was 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