head of the committee doing all of this in just a moment. today's most recent group includes some familiar folks. press secretary kayleigh mcenany. trump senior advisor stephen miller. and also a guy named johnny mcentee. he may not be as familiar to you, it is possible that the name rings a bell. he was so powerful inside the trump white house he has been called the deputy president. which of course, we don't have in this country. we've got a vice president, we have a chief of staff of president. not a deputy president, it does not exist. now we are learning as set of shocking new details that is sort of trump ego johnny mcentee did. and how effective the ran the united states government. but before all this, he actually went viral a decade ago with this video, i actually remember seeing this video, he was the quarterback for the university of connecticut football team. impressive. he successfully through all these trick shots. these unlikely shots. and again, it is really impressive that he did that. but it is what mcentee did after college that has brought him the most notoriety. after a staffer at fox news said, he joined the trump campaign, then as the candidates body man. which is the person who goes everywhere with the president, carries us luggage, get some snacks, arranges his hotel. you could see him here, working in what people may call an an ideal office face in the trump tower. that is real dedication. they're back in default, until 2018, when he was fired by white house chief of staff john kelly. he failed to pass a background check, reportedly due to online gambling and issues with this taxes. so then the 27 year old was escorted out of the white house grounds by security. that was short lived, after john kelly left the white house back in 2019, trump rehired him, through his election campaign. because johnny mcentee was nothing but loyal to the president. and donald trump values loyalty above everything else, even though he does not reciprocated, ever. after a month, back at the, job trump put him in promotion. despite having the experience, he appointed him the white house personal officer. that is actually a pretty big job, in any white house. and in that position he would oversee the vending and hiring of everyone from investors to cabinet members. everyone thought that wasn't a good idea. as the report in the atlantic, from john carl's new book, from the trump administration, when trump oversaw the office, i have never said note anything that you've ever asked me to do, but i am asking you to please reconsider this, i don't think it is a good idea. trump took that about as well as you can imagine, through a temper tran, trump reported the screen that the -- >> few people never listen to me, you are going to do what i tell you to do. >> so he got the job, and immediately embarked on this ideological idea to purge the white house of those who were in positionally low -- to donald trump he hired a number of new trap that worked in his agenda including liaisons, you might think of them as kind of spies to various cabinet agencies who used to bully those officers into doing the president's bidding. or harass employees who were perceived as working against the trump agenda. in one example, one of mac and cheese enforcers noticed a low level staffer, in the department of housing, had liked a post from the popstar taylor swift on instagram. specifically, this post. she encouraged her fans to vote in once photo, and displayed cookies, decorated with the bidens a. -- that is nice, but that incident was escalated all to the white house chief of staff, who reprimanded the staffers balls. and another particularly notable anecdote, one of mcentee's committees got caught trying to remove a plaque on the wall honoring -- again it was like a nameplate with a bunch of name plates, there wasn't some big shrine to miles taylor in seniority, taylor of course the one employee of dhs who later revealed that he wrote in the book, anonymously, of how he was resisting the trump agenda from within. yes, on one, hand these anecdotes are kind of funny but they were real states of -- as i said he had a very serious and powerful. jump his time in the white house personal office went beyond petty squabbles. his team advised the president over the hiring and firing of cabinet officials. when one of mac and cheese and forces were hard to work with the department of defense, he told those around him, quote, i'm going to the pentagon to fire secretary of defense mark esper, and those deep state bastard's. you know what's, he did. mcentee's office wrote trump a memo recommending that he fired him, who they believe was working against trump's agenda. among other concerns, refusing to use the military to, quote, protests last summer. imagine that, they wrote that one, and donald trump listen. and six days after the memo he fired him. and it is worth noting, similarities between mac and cheese behavior that was encouraged in applauded by donald trump and the kind of ideological enforcers that you see crop up in authoritarian governments in the past. the purging of this allies which is infamous sufficiently loyal leaders in the movement. like many authoritarian,'s mega tea was not concerned with democracy. remember, there is a reason why the january six committee wants to talk to him. on january, first johnny mcentee texted mike pence a memo including the memory of thomas jefferson to incorrectly suggests that pence had the authority to overturn a state elector. remember, this was the grand plan, right? it was part of the eastman memo, to throughout the results of the election and essentially effectively appoint trump the winner. part of the pressure campaign to get pence to go along with the coup, in fact, to be the trigger man for the coup. but this is not really about just one white house staffer, johnny mcentee, was just a distance elation. obtaining powered any cause, subverting democracy, purity tests, demands of loyalty, that is how trump wants to run america. we saw a lesson in florida of when the ex president, told republicans, that they could not have won the gubernatorial race without him. even though the candidate kept an arms length. we're seeing now that the republicans are now calling for their 13 colleagues who crossed the aisle to vote to vote for the bipartisan bill to be removed from their committee assignments. to be clear, that is wild. that is the kind of punishment reserved for members of congress who engaged in a gracious conduct. here's an example, chris collins, he lost his committee see when he was indicted on insider trading charges. when either republican steve king, lost his first sympathizing for white nationalism. georgia republican taylor greene, lost hers for promoting racist anti -- and advocating file-less against her members of congress. that is the bar. for what people to lose their way -- the purge right? enforcer, you like that. imposed well you want to punish their colleagues for voting for a bipartisan roads and bridges bill? it's not about policy, it's about complete and total loyalty. as the presidency, donald trump and his deputy john mcentee built and cold inside the federal government that compensated a violent insurrection. it's the vision that they had now actively cultivated on 40 american governments once again, should he be allowed back into the halls power? olivia troye serves and aides to mike pence before resigning. she is not director of the republican -- and she is the former chief of staff for security. he also resigned during the trump administration. with the prom on mac and cheese employee to try to remove that name plane bearing his name, that i mentioned moments ago, he now serves as a cofounder for renew america. olivia troye i'm curious first of all from the inside of how this tracks with your experience, the description of mcentee in this kind of obsessive paranoid quasi-authoritarian enforcement of loyalty. >> i think it's very accurate, it actually gave me chills and it reminded me of what it was like especially when johnny, as we call them inside the white house, was appointed to head of presidential personnel. this was early in 2020, i remember having conversations with senior cabinet people like, head of homeland security at the time, who had a conversation with me and said i cannot stuff qualified people right now because johnny is blocking them. i can't get anyone through the headline. this is placing qualified people in positions of national security, right? and this is the guy who was in charge of all of this. when we invest in the fear, the fear is real. it was well known that there were social media attempts being conducted at a conversation with him directly, where he told me to watch my every move. to be careful. i chuckled a bit when i saw the tillerson portion because i remember a moment earlier in spring where i was really angry during a meeting where i lost an argument with someone, when i didn't agree with, when it was related to the pope. and i came back and explained to him, that same night. i had to call him a knock on the door. he said, are you trying to get fired? and i was super confused about that. for being blunt in meetings, or for what's? >> he said, i don't think that she's a fan of trump, you should really watch your back, you should be careful on. that that is just so astonishing to me. i'm allowed to listen to whatever music i want. but when you talk about, what was mentioned in the article, this is sort of how this white house was run, and that is what i fear for the future of our country when so many of these people are in power like this. and they remain in power. here's the irony here, right? at some level, because i'm talking above you, and i want your feedback on this. because i'm talking about, you can be paranoid and be right, right? in the sense that, it's true, that a bunch of people in the administration viewed the president and the inner circle around him as a bunch of paranoid social paths are going to destroy the country and viewed their mission as essentially making sure that they couldn't. so, then running around, being like or the deep traders in the deep state, it's motivated by they were indeed sociopath. that is the original problem miles. that all of this flows from. >> look, first of all, i didn't know olivia story before. if i know that playing tillerson would've been fired, i would've been fired we earlier during the administration. but to your point chris, i'm going to stay this, when the hell are trump supporters going to wake up? what else do they need to hear to understand that the man they support was viewed by his own lieutenants as a dangerous authoritarian overseeing a bunch of mini dangerous authoritarian's. we are not talking about a bunch of disgruntled employees, which is what the president says we. are we are talking about his own former chief of staff. his own former national security adviser. the list goes on and on, these are people who sounded the alarm, and said that trump's lieutenants are acting like the gustavo. alyssa, who is one of his spokespeople, just at the other day, that she feared a second term would deep in the united states into a thorough narrative -- so the concern israel, and i will validate what idlib you said about this john carl story, it's completely accurate. and you mention, that plaque, that same person to pry my name off the plaque was the same person staffers at dhs were worried was literally going to come in and shut out the place. they were worried he was going to come in and potentially should people, his response to that chris, was, but if they support crump, they have nothing to worry about. that was essentially their response. that sounded scary to me like some of hitler's lieutenants, who famously said, you have nothing to fear, if you have nothing to hide. these were the type of people, donald trump surrounded himself with indian. >> i should note, i am not familiar with that story, actually. i did not know, i did not hear that one. one of the people in atlanta mentioned, i will shudder thinking what it will look like in a second term, he johnny mcentee is already working on his list of names. -- why you've got all these people worried about full spectrum democratic breakdown it is pure distillation of what trump wants in finding the people that will carried out in mcentee or in jeffrey clark, in the doj. >> that's exactly, it people are being placed in positions, out of loyalty. they were being play specifically in a senior officer and laying the groundwork, and that was what was so concerning in the lead up to january six is that watching this, especially having worked, there i had grave concerns about the fact that people were being shuffled around, i knew how they felt about him, i had heard the comments in the summer when he took a stand on what was happening with the protests. there was all this talk about insurrection act and everything, and the president at the time wanted to use military force for every possible solution that he wanted. that's what he. did he would turn to the military for, it people took a stand, and stood against it. so i think it is concerning about people rise to par like, this and the type of people that they place to do their bidding. they are loyalists. and they're willing to be loyal. and do whatever it takes disdain's good graces. i'm part of the problem, miles, the sort of trump addressing the republican party at that event doral which is happening on his property is his own way of sort of paying liberal tribute. he is obviously trying to overstate his own, he wasn't that problem in that race. he was a drag on that race. and yet, at the same time, it is the case that any support for the republican party at large, would down to his benefit. does empower him. and those two strike me as indistinguishable, at this moment in american democracy. >> chris, there is a stunning level of silence among republicans, still about donald trump, they all know these things to be true, the own know that donald trump has led to violence, there is actually danger for the public safety standpoint because they say those things behind the scenes and engage with them but they are still afraid to speak, up because he wields this massive -- that he wants to deploy the election. that is concerning. of course, whether or not donald trump is going to spend that money on candidates that he endorses, because, he wants to keep it for himself for a come back. but he is wielding that as another tool to install the earth among republicans to get them to remain loyal to him. that is why olivia does what she does, that is why i launched renew america movement, frankly, so we can support the good guys who are willing to stand up and go after the bad guys and frankly, i don't want to make this seem oversimplistic, this is a fight between good and evil. and i know that sounds hyperbolic but we are talking about some truly evil people in the former presidents rank. some very sick people who would love nothing more than to re-install donald trump into the white house, to have an authoritarian president, and the fact that a survey showed that millions of americans believe that he should be violently reinstalled into the white house, is a demonstration of how bad this is gotten. olivia, miles. thank you both. don't go anywhere the chair of the january 6th select committee is here to talk about the ten new subpoenas, including stephen miller and kayleigh mcenany. plus, i'll get's reaction to donald trump's midnight hail mary to block those documents being turned over to the investigation. all that after the break. don't go away. all that after the break don't go away. don't go away. [gaming sounds] [gaming sounds] just think, he'll be driving for real soon. every new chevy equinox comes standard with chevy safety assist, including automatic emergency braking. find new peace of mind. find new roads. chevrolet. ♪ when you have nausea, ♪ find new roads. ♪ heartburn, ingestion, upset stomach... ♪ ♪ diarrheaaaa.♪ try pepto bismol with a powerful coating action. for fast and soothing relief. pepto bismol for fast relief when you need it most. all ten of the people who were (swords clashing) -had enough? -no... arthritis. here. new aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme. just subpoenaed today, we're all working the trump administration on january six. summer staffers who until now are relatively unknown, backed a few names i had to go back and double-check. there's trump's former person illicit subsistent, nicholas lunar, with a former oval office operations coordinator molly micheael. some are of course household names like trump senior advisor, child separation mastermind stephen miller. the committee wrote to him quote, based on your own public statements, you are aware of and participated in efforts to spread false information, about alleged voter fraud. and the 2020 election, as well as efforts to encourage state legislatures to alter the outcome of the election, by among other things appointing alternative slates of electors descend competing votes tonight in states congress. in addition you in your team prepared for trump's remarks to the rally, on january, six year at the way house that day, and you are with mr. trump when he's spoke at the stop the steal rally. also, kayleigh mcenany. as white house press secretary, you made multiple public statements from the white house in elsewhere in reported fraud in the november 2020 election, the individuals that attacked the capitol echoed on january, six you are with trump -- and popped in and out to join mr. trump as he watched the attack on the u.s. capitol later that afternoon. the chairman of the january six committee, that just issued those subpoenas, benny thompson in mississippi, joins me now. congressman. says a large group of folks just in the last few, days it seems to represent, an investigation that is both moving quite quickly and expanding. to sort of take down the totality on the run up to january six. how would you characterize where you are in your investigation? >> first of all, thanks for having me chris, what i would tell you is we are in the midst of following the facts and circumstances, that got us to january six. the 16 individuals we have subpoenaed, this week, have knowledge as to what occurred before january six, as well as what occurred on january six. a lot of it is in the public domain. some of it you shared on your program. but we think it's incumbent upon the committee to get them on the record, in sworn testimony. as to what actually occurred, and what did they do, during that time. some of the individuals or household words, some of them are not. this is the body of work that our committee is doing. as you know, we've interviewed over 150 people. in this process. the people we want to talk to directly now, are people who we think have evidence as to what really went on in terms of the planning, of the stop the steal rally. that morphed into an insurrection. and we want to see whether or not they actually contributed to that insurrection. >> i want to read to you a quotation from the letter of who we just spent to mr. mccarthy. you are president in the oval office of office when former president pence discuss the audit process, in listened as giuliani suggested seizing defending moaning machines because of fraud. according to public accounts you are also involved with communications and various federal agencies including loyalty to former president trump. and you specifically discouraged a number of individuals of seeking employment after the election, as it would appear to be a concession of president trump's defeat. how sensual a figure to do you view mcentee? >> well there's no question. he is part and parcel, to this big lie. that we having to deal with. and part of which you heard, and really read just then, is how all of this was created. if you put the lie out in front of the public, that the machine somehow changed the outcome of the election, or that certain officials in certain parts of the country, we're not loyal to the president. we have people, who are working in this administration. who are not loyal to this president, we are a democracy. part of our challenge, that we are having to address, is whether or not, what occurred came almost to the point of destroying this great democracy of ours, and if indeed what can we do to protect it. part of it is getting to the evidence. the phone call made to the secretary of state in georgia, by the president. saying, he only needs a few thousand votes. and he can take georgia. all of those things bring into question, as to was this part of a bigger plan. the fact that officials in arizona, michigan, pennsylvania were all put under pressure, to change the outcome of illegitimate election. over 60 lawsuits as you know, were filed. on behalf of trying to change the outcome of the election, a majority of the judges that heard them were trump appointed judges. who say we can find nothing illegal or improper, with the conduct of the election. the people we want to talk to, by issuing the subpoenas, and under oath, we think have significant information, as to what went on. some of them, are suspects. we want to know what went on at the hotel. we want to know why felons were brought in to assist this effort. in those felons who had been pardoned, by this president. some time, you get judged by the company you keep. and some of the company that brought itself to the stop the steal rally, obviously have records that are suspect. >> final question for you quickly here. friday is the deadline for the first documents subpoenaed by your committee, requested by your committee from the national archive. the president has tried to intervene in court, despite the fact that biden's administration said there is no executive administration claim here. there's no hearing earlier, that judges yet to issue a ruling. what is your expectation of how that process will play out? >> our hope is that the judge will rule in our favor. it's clear, that we are a duly chartered committee. developed by the house of representatives. but as you know, trump history, is when you disagree with anything, you go to court. so we are not surprised, we are not surprised about the emergency filing he did last night. we appreciate a quick decision by the judge. so we are confident, that we would have sound footing. and we will get those records, that will help us make the case, as to what really occurred, leading up to january six. in who participated in the stop the rally that turned into an insurrection. >> congressman benny thompson who said the chair of that committee, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> coming, up the faction of right-wing activists who spent their careers trying to destroy public education, now think they have the perfect weapon. just ahead. first, the story of the january six insurrection is facing multiple felony charges, who fled to belarus. it's a wild story. stick around. stick around. we'll be right backight bac -had enough? -no... arthritis. here. new aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme. hey hun hey, get your own vapors don't thank them too soon. relax with vicks vapobath or with vicks vaposhower. take a soothing vicks vapo moment wherever you chose. well, would ya look at that! it was an accident. i was— speaking of accidents, we accidentally left you off the 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an officer's body cam, she's wearing a gas mask, in one of them, which is creepy, and. weird and shows that he was planning something, or at least indicating. in the criminal complaint, he was in the crowd, where he began verbally assaulting police officers. he allegedly yelled at one officer, you have quote, no pride, no on, or you're nothing. according to the complaint he threatened the officers saying that you will be overrun by the crowd. he said, i'm willing to die, are you? the fbi said newman went to shut the barricades into the line of third lease officers and punch them until he was successful and breaking down the barricade. he then use the barricade as a battering ram, striking officers with it. now newman learned that he was wanted by the fbi, he fled the country. he is now seeking asylum in the welcoming arms of the former soviet republic of belarus. they seem like an incredibly random place for an american on the lamb but it does make some real sense. belarus's infamously the last dictatorship in europe, held by alexander, who has been in power for more than 25 years. lukashenko, and russian president, our allies, though they have a complicated relationship. the belarusian leader is seen as a scourge on the european union. in fact, they are accusing him of intentionally trying to encourage the migrant crisis. he is doing the thing where he accepts people, brings them to the border at pullen, polish officials are not psyched about, that they say this 3000 pieces are masked at the borders today, trying to enter the eu, courtesy of shank. oh you may remember another dramatic incident, earlier this, year in may, he forced the landing of a commercial flight, traveling through its airspace in order to arrest a passenger. a dissidents belarusian journal. and now lukashenko, and his authoritarian have found themselves in possession of an incredible propaganda victory. in the form of one where they are healing at the victim of political prosecution, this, week he gave an interview to state did tv, which aired in a segment called, goodbye america. he detailed his journey, saying that he flew into the eu on a business trip and traveling through switzerland. he said he arrived in belarus on foot, after wading through sikh infested swamps. in the interview, he told the belarusian that he doesn't believe it committed any crimes and alleges that the insurrection was a false flag, fabricated by the u.s.. when >> they went along with his stories describing him as a very simple american who sought justice, asked uncomfortable questions, but lost almost everything and being persecuted by the government. that idea, that people who are literally recorded on, video attempted to overturn the election, our political prisoners, ice not just spreading in belarus. it has become the line of white wing a media. in an entire fraction of the republican party, believes it. i [interpreter] i [interpreter i've been telling everyone... the secret to great teeth is 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time. find the plan that fits you. call the number on your screen now, or visit healthmarkets.com for whatever effect, the healthmarkets critical race theory scare tucked it may have had on the election last week, it was clearly a hit. fox news audiences, and possibly some persuadable voters, -- yahoo news poll from last month found that 50% of americans have heard of crtc. and has widespread as it is, now the issue is used in white wing messaging was basically invented out of whole cry by one guy. christopher russia. he was the first one to start peddling the idea of critical race theory as some kind of grieve thing to america last year. as he admitted, in the new york times, it's all part of a much bigger an older conservative effort to essentially got public education. according to her, i've aloft a new terrain in the cultural war, and demonstrated a new strategy. with that, then he was getting ready for a new face of his offensive. we are right now preparing a strategy of links teach to the institutions. in practice, this means promoting the traditional republican school choice agenda. private school about, his charter, schools home schooling. public schools are waging war against american children and american families, he. said families, in turn, should have a fundamental right to exit. >> michelle goldberg, who wrote that, piece joins me now. your column was clarifying because it really showed me the degree how this was old wine, in your bottles. the project here from roof over. another >> there has been a long project to discredit public schools and we've seen lots of iterations of. it i am old enough to remember secular humanism being taught in public. schools sexual education being taught in school. so there is many many iterations of. this i mean, i think that this is obviously responding to something real. it's responding to sort of student changes in the ei changing, largely, at the administrative level to have been interpreted to mean a whole scale revision of the way racist taught in american school classrooms. and i think this is really not happening. one of the interesting things about virginia is that, part of the reason this issue has been fulfilling in virginia, is that the schools were closed for so long. longer than in most of their states. and there is a lot of parenting frustration over. that i think that a lot of that anger is justified. the schools will, where people were at home, if they were being beaten about their white privilege somebody would've seen it. and they didn't. so that is not with this is about. >> i think that you make a broader point. i think that there is a few things at the scene part kind of like using crtc as this kind of wedged weapon for political purposes, there is the fact that there has been actual changes in some of the rhetoric around race, some of which is incredibly important a good, some of it which i think is not. great, and a little flin flon-y and hostility from the sort of industry that has grown up that we will train. people but then there is the broader thing of, the role of public education. you wrote. this the many reasons of why education was such an instant -- instead diary issue in virginia governor's race -- because america's response to covid was politically polarized, schools shut down were longest in the blue, states and was severe only six states had fewer in person these last year. one of the really distrusting effects of that was that i found sometimes a few looking cross where people were trying to justify longer school shutdowns we're minimizing the import in a public education. which seem like the opposite of what you want to. do oh, it's not that big of deal people aren't, school i kept saying, no it's a really big deal because public education is really important. >> i think through the looking glass is we are exactly. right before covid, you have the right trying to say that online education could be a substitute for public schools. when they were pushing sort of private charter schools. everybody, at the, time progresses and understood that that was preposterous. i think that the shutdowns have created a huge amount of just normal with the public schools that is very ripe for the right to exploit. and they are now exploiting, not just in terms of crtc bands, but also in terms of becoming campaign of privatization and vouchers. this could be really damaging to both public education, and to the democratic party. we should, say actions in the poll showed that, two thirds of people think that the schools actually did a good, job or variance and someone of balancing help and safety with other issues. there was a very little split between parents and non parent, i myself would answer yes to that same issue. i think new york city schools did a good job. but, i am also thinking, i really don't want that to ever happen again. i really want to make sure that we preserve, expand, and protect public education as i know you do as. well michelle goldberg, always a pleasure, thank you. >> thank you. >> still to, come the surgeon general, like what's to talk about, post vaccine season could look. like and what to do with what you call that aaron rodgers problem. the answers will be right here. s will be right here sure points. and its temperature balancing so you both sleep just right. save $1,000 on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed. plus, free premium delivery when you add a base. ends monday. frequent heartburn? not anymore. the prilosec otc two-week challenge is helping people love what they love again. just one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn. because life starts when heartburn stops. take the challenge at prilosecotc dot com. do you struggle to fall asleep and stay asleep? qunol sleep formula combines 5 key nutrients that can help you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up refreshed. the brand i trust is qunol. last week we found that one of the most famous athletes in america was misleading everyone about its vaccination status. the quarterback of the green bay packers, aaron rodgers, revealed that he contracted covid. substantive, that we learned that when he had been asked about whether was vaccinated. he said yes, i'm immunized. he was not actually vaccinated. later, he went on a podcast and disclosed that he did not actually get that covid vaccine. the interview was almost an hour-long during which he basically explained why he is against the vaccine. and on, it included a lot of crazy stuff. >> to my knowledge, there has been zero long term studies around sterility, or fertility issues, around the vaccine. i have been taking monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, zinc, vitamin c, and i feel pretty incredible. >> first, the vaccine does not cause fertility issues. and none of those things that he's taking, other than the monoclonal antibodies, have been proven to treat double blind critical trials of covid. you can imagine, that all of that was not well received. fans accused him of lying. he lost an endorsement. deal packers, i felt terrible about this, lost this week. it was just awful. so today, aaron rodgers went back on that same podcast and tried to clean up the messy meet. >> i made some comments that people might have felt were misleading. to anybody who felt miss led by those comments, i take full responsibility for those comments. >> the thing is, the story is not about aaron rodgers. this is about how there is so much misinformation out there, flooding very fast in society. that has prompted the surgeon general, the nations, lead taking unprecedented move releasing the step-by-step, misinformation cool to to help people come back conspiracy theories, lies, in their own social groups. he joins me now, doctor vivek murthy, good to have you here. >> thank you so much chris, good to be with you. >> i have complicated feelings about him, what for understandable reasons, he's just a guy with bad views on this. which are a dime a dozen. i would just say that the real problem is he has the platform now and he's going on this podcast despite all this. i wonder, when you hear him say that there's been no long term studies of the fertility issue, that is technically true in terms that there's been no long term studies about anything, because it's only been around for a year. what goes through your head when you heard that? is that a defeat-able complaint? or is that just someone looking for a reason? >> it is a good question. when i talk to people who are concerned about the vaccine or hesitant, this is what i tried to understand. what are the real concerns, interest, and tried to second step back and look at the bigger picture. a couple of things become clear. if you're goal is to reduce your chances of having covid. if you're goal is to help you through the pandemic, then clearly, getting vaccinated is your breath passed away dirt. and he will get that, not just with clinical trials, but administering more than 400 million doses of this vaccine in the u.s. alone. two things have become very clear from that experience. number one, these vaccines are highly effective, if effective from preventing hospitalization and death. to, a remarkably strong safety profile, which we always take for granted, but that's always been the case. so, that's what the data tells us. but this is what i think we have to remember from this instance, number one, if you have a platform, if you have a voice, you have to use it responsibly. especially in an era like this where there can be confusion. you can really hurt people, with misinformation. second, who you get your health information from matters. i don't ask my electrician for medical advice. and i don't ask my doctor for advice on what to do for my electrical problems at home. we've got to make sure we ask questions about the vaccine from credible medical experts. people who studied science, who practice medicine, people like your doctor or your health care provider, in the local department of health. that is how we're gonna counter information, and make the best decision for ourselves and our family. i am lucky enough to be able to do with nikki minaj's cousins friends, whenever i have any issues that come up, so i've been consulting with him on the side. >> i guess the problem about this is that trump to leash unsure that you're talking about, is that i don't trust the messengers when. there is no way to get out of that trust relationship. you see what i'm saying? i think there is a lot of people who say that i don't trust doctors, i don't trust mainstream medicine, i don't trust quote unquote big pharma. and you can tell me all this data, but i don't trust the actual data. well >> i'm glad you brought this up. a lot of people legitimately fall into that category. some of them had a bad experience. >> which is not wrong. >> i totally understand that. but this is why it's important for all of us to recognize, even if we're not medical professionals, we have a role to help people understanding where they can go for information. sharing our own experience. one of the reasons, chris, that i issued information, is because i wanted to call attention to the profound challenges that we are facing again in this pandemic. it's addressing the avalanche of misinformation that is coming our way. the reason today, that i issued a community tool kit is to now provide concrete tools that can empower people to number one, be able to understand where the information they're getting is accurate or not. be able to have a conversation with the family member. you don't have to be a doctor, in order to help somebody understand and know what your decision was. you can empathize and help them perhaps lean towards talking to a credible medical expert. and in this moment, we still have 60 million pulp people who need to get vaccinated. we need everyone to look around and talk to the family and friends, ask them if they're vaccinated, if they're not, help them answer their questions or direct them to people can. >> i want to ask how people should be mentally preparing for this winter? cases are starting to go up in europe right now. we have a map that shows that cases are going up more than the eastern european countries which are less vaccinated. the cases in the u.s. are up a little bit over last. week and one thing we've learned about covid is, cases go down. they don't stay the same. we have not really reached suppression levels. so we are going to have outbreaks. the case is going to be around, we got 60 million people unvaccinated, and people are unvaccinated as community the transmission, their risk of getting breakthrough cases will go up. how should those who are vaccinated, and in areas that are highly vaccinated, be thinking about risk as we go into a winter where i guarantee you we will see more cases? >> that's a good question. as the winter approaches people are going indoors, and we know that the virus can transmit better. but here is what is important for vaccine people to remember. you are much better off, now, then you are last year. and why is that? because even if there are virus in the community, your risk overall is still much lower if you're vaccinated. second, your risk of getting seriously ill ill, or hospitalized, is remarkably lower. that's why during this last delta, wave the majority of people who were hospitalized and who are dying from covid-19 were in fact unvaccinated individuals. finally, remember, two more things, if you are eligible for a booster, it's worth going out and getting that booster. that is a way to extend the protection that you have as quickly as we get into winter. but also remember that the precautions that the cdc is recommending, wearing masks, what is still helpful in times like this when we saw a lot of viruses circulating. i am often optimistic that we are getting to better. police cases will come, down and we will keep them at a manageable level. >> that is not going to happen this winter? >> -- that is why we have to continue to be cautious. but just remember, you are so much better if you are vaccinated. we cannot people forget about the. because i hear about breakthrough, this doesn't really matter to get vaccinated? absolutely. it saves your life. it keeps out of the hospital. >> also, there's a perverse inversion that happens. the people who are most likely to be vaccinated and doing things like masking, and people who are at least attuned are the people who are at least likely to be vaccinated. that is both a cultural, regional, situation where cases go up and the people in those parts of the country are also getting the most freaked out, right? you have this weird sort of cycle and i am worried about that as we get into the winter because i want people to recognize that the vaccine really does offer tremendous protection. >> it really does. and there's something interesting about what you just, said we see this in the misinformation here as well, the people who are unvaccinated, are much more likely to believe the misinformation that is out there. and nearly 80% of the people neither believe or think that it may be true, many of them are in fact, tilting towards those who are unvaccinated. >> thank you so. much that is all in on this tuesday. night the rachel maddow show starts right now, good evening rachel. >> good evening chris, thank you much much appreciated. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. when there is a lot of focus on washington in the news, sometimes we like to do a thing sometimes, we like to do a thing where we look beyond the beltway. look at newspapers around the country to see how the national news is playing around the actual mission. and not just in the capitol. that's something that we try to do sort of frequently here on the show. we've done that on covid a number of times. we've done it around big political issues, issues like impeachment, for example. i find it to be sort of a helpful reset. sort of a slice of the news world that gets you out of the beltway mind-set for a minute. well today, house speaker nancy pelosi's staff, they seem to have had a similar kind of