>> and how nikki haley's call for presidents to be cognitively tested is one for the irony hall of fame. >> person, woman, man, camera tv, they say that's amazing, how did you do that? >> "all in" starts now. >> good evening. i'm in for chris hayes. the u.s.'s unemployment has dropped to 4.6%. in fact, this year has seen the largest one-year drop in unemployment since 1950, according to the white house, and the dow closed above 36,000 for the first time ever this week, spurred in large part by unprecedented levels of government stimulus. and yet joe biden is an exceptionally unpopular president. in fact, he is the most unpopular president at this point in history at this point in history with the exception of donald j trump. they have tangible year one accomplishments, dating back to the american rescue plan, passed without a single republican vote and signed into law earlier this year. the american rescue plan was a massive $1.9 trillion stimulus package that provided direct payments, checks of $1,400 to americans in need, extended beefed-up unemployment benefits and expanded the child tax credit, providing up to $3,600 per child, which studies estimate could cut child poverty this year in half. biden is overseeing the waning pandemic, the worst of the delta wave appears to be behind us. businesses are reopening. life is slowly returning to some sort of normal in many parts of the country. and many americans are vaccinated the virus. the number is now nearly 200 million vaccinated and rising now that kids are eligible for the shots as well. and yet, despite all that, biden and his party took an absolute beating in virginia this week, when former democratic governor terry mcauliffe lost to republican glenn youngkin, a private baron who ran on a platform of right wing platform. >> newly unearth documents reveal mcauliffe's administration actively pushed crt. >> he also was a social warrior. >> i want to see our curriculum change. >> mcauliffe running for a proxy on biden's record for vaccinations, on stimulus and the economy, got beat by a guy pushing coded white talking point. a plurality of voters called the economy their top priority. there are a few reasons for this disconnect where voters can look at a rebounding economy and still reject the party that is overseeing a clear economic recovery. first, the democratic party is absolutely terrible at messaging and taking credit for its accomplishments. we all know that. second, the most salient economic indicator for many americans isn't the dow, the stock market or even tax credits or infrastructure legislation. it's gas prices and inflation, which are undeniably on the rise. and third, plenty of voters are happy to take those tax credits and direct payments and then turn around and vote for the guy who is talking about culture politics, anyway. that is in large part because of one giant elephant in the room, fox news. fox functions as a republican propaganda machine and it creates an environment in which critical race theory can become a powerful political talking point, despite it not being taught in virginia public schools, by pumping a steady extreme of crazy into people's homes night after night. >> the american confederacy, the southern confederacy was built on a similar kind of critical race theory and equity. >> civilization ending poison, but it's everywhere. how widespread is it? we can't be sure until we finally get cameras in the classroom. >> they took god out of our schools and then the left replaced it with crt, this marxist religion. >> i've never seen an ideology burn so quickly through society. we don't even know who is behind it, where it's happening. >> i've never figured out what critical race theory is, to be totally honest. >> and so if democrats want to counter this crazy, at some point they need to meet it head on. touting biden's accomplishments is simply not going to be enough. so-called popularism, the notion that politicians should run on a platform of popular ideas, ignores the fact that people just don't care that much about policy and they often don't trust their elected officials to actually get anything done. as democratic strategists write in an excellent new opinion piece for "the new york times," in the heat of a campaign, popularism fails because republicans will not let democrats ignore race. mr. youngkin dragged race into the election, making his vow to ban critical race theory a stump speech. they go on to argue, instead of ignoring race, democrats must confront it and explain that powerful elites and special interests use it as a tool of division to distract people of all working races while they get robbed blind, then pivot back to shared interests. that's their message and this is not just an abstract conversation about political strategy and the op-ed pages of the times. this is something the democrats need to start taking seriously. republicans are feeling emboldened after their win in virginia, they took away a message, we can do nothing to help people in their lives and still win on a platform of bs. if the democrats want any shot at holding a governing majority, they need to get their act together, and get their message heard and connect with voters in an emotional, not just a material way. we have the president and co-founder of the progressive strategy hubway to win and the co-founder of the news aggregate site front page live who previously spent two decades as a reporter at fox news until he quit in 2017. thank you both for joining me. tori, let me start with you. what i loved about your op-ed, you pushed back against people who said let's talk policy. you said rightly, you say republicans will not let democrats ignore race. but many democrats will still say, nope, we need to change the subject and talk about what we need to talk about. what do you say to them? >> i say to them, you can look to the other election that we had in 2021 for the right playbook and that was the election in georgia. we had senators warnock and ossiff prepared for a massive campaign and that campaign didn't assume the republicans would drop off at all, in the way i think we've seen those assumptions play out in virginia. and what's more, they confronted the right's racist dog whistles head-on and pivoted quickly to share interest in jobs, the economy, health care and justice. and in doing so, not only did they keep enthusiasm up, but they also managed to pull moderates into a direction of a multiracial majority. and, you know, terry mcauliffe just didn't do that. we had a scenario in virginia where we had turnout up by 7% compared to 2017, but the republicans in virginia actually had their turnout up to 15%. so that's why we have to win in 2022. >> it is undeniable that there is a symbiotic relationship between fox news and the republican party and especially donald trump, and not just the opinion hosts, who i know you have criticized since leaving the channel, but the so-called straight news site, which has been all in on the nonsensical critical race theory this year. you have a daytime fox host saying let's go brandon all the time, this new ridiculous anti-biden chant. >> you've just described a litany of stories that fox perpetuated that never realized itself in actual politics. so much of what is said is the fantasies of the hosts who aren't necessarily journalists, but they are sometimes called anchors. that's a problem when people are being gaslit with propaganda. i do think part of what happened in virginia was youngkin's taking advantage of critical race theory and pushing that hard against mcauliffe, but, frankly, the history of the way in which virginia votes change particularly when there's a change of presidency. but there's always a problem. kids don't show up for gubernatorial races like they do in presidential races. and youngkin did a very good job of parroting a lot of trump's rhetoric without standing too close or talking too much about him. that was politically smart. what democrats need to do is fight back. the democratic party, the left has always been afraid of billionaire's money. the republicans aren't and it's making a huge difference. and frankly, fox isn't necessarily a symbiotic operation with rnc, nor has fox always had a symbiotic relationship with republicans on capitol hill. what they are attracting, what they are serving is the audience, because the audience eyeballs leads us to commercials and commercials is where the money is. so they're going to continue to say things, and as long as people choose to believe it, it's not just fox and it's not just television, it's also social media and we have a really horrible problem. misinformation and disinformation is the problem. >> that's a fair point. you can argue that facebook is matching fox news these days. tori, it's blaming fox about the record, but we can't ignore the failures, can we, the fact that democrats are not good at telling their own story. i didn't see the american rescue plan get mentioned at all in the race this week. >> in fact, mcauliffe was running away from some of the accomplishments that biden has put forth so far. it's definitely something that democrats need to contend with as we head into 2022, and i'll just reiterate, we know the way to win in 2022, we have to offer something new to americans. there are 80 million americans who voted for this president to deliver, you know, on climate, to deliver on care, to deliver on jobs, and we've got to push the conservative democrats and the gop out of the way to really make that happen. when we do, we're poised right now to make historic gains for the american people. and that will give us what we need to really pull enthusiasm, pull the enthusiasm gap up. >> i have to ask, i really do appreciate you doing interviews like this and speaking plainly about fox as you have done in recent years. i have to ask, you were there two decades at fox when the channel as a whole pushed right wing bs about xenophobia after 9/11. did none of that other stuff bother you, weigh on your conscious when you were there for two decades? >> i had a lot of arguments. i shot my stories straight. i did see stuff that was crooked, it was off of the lanes of real journalism, but again, cable television in the early days, all msnbc and fox wanted to do was beat cnn in the ratings and everybody was scrambling for news stories in order to win the audience's attention. that began to change, you know, during the iraq war when the president of the president of the united states at that time, george w. bush, said that there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq and we went there under false pretenses and things began to change at that point. i stuck around for a long time. my wife and i had fought a number of times that it was time to go, but because of life and family stuff, that didn't happen until the actual election of donald trump and i was out there on the campaign trail with him for two and a half years, almost, and it was absolutely clear to me that i had to get out and take a little break from all of the nonsense of what has become our politics. it's not serious. social media and fox make up stories out of thin air just to keep people's attention and keep their anger and their fear trudging along as we get to the commercials. >> well, at least you're not there now, as tucker carlson's talking points. appreciate your time tonight. >> thanks very much. today the trump doj official who reportedly plotted with the former president to overturn the election appeared before the january 6th select committee to give testimony. what the committee wanted to know and what they actually learned, well, you'll find out after this. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ discover card i just got my cashback match is this for real? 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(tiger) this is the dimension of imagination. ♪ ♪ with xfinity home, you can keep your home and everything in it more protected. i can wrangle all my deliveries. thanks, hoss! and i help walk the dog from wherever. *door unlocks* ♪ ♪ well, i can bust curfew-breakers in an instant. well, you all have xfinity home, with cameras to home security monitored by the pros. *laughs* learn more about home security or get our self-monitored solution starting at just $10 per month. do you remember the guy in trump's justice department who reportedly tried to take his boss's job and help trump overturn the election. he served in the justice department and he was the acting doj for the civil division in the final days of the trump administration. he was all over the report last about month about trump's attempts to overturn the election. he met with trump personally and urged the justice department to overturn the election, and called the georgia proof of concept. he's the guy who tried to take his own boss' job. clark eventually informed acting attorney rosen that trump had offered to install him in rosen's place and told rosen he would turn down trump's offer if rosen would agree to sign the proof of concept letter. jeffrey clark has denied he plotted to oust the attorney general. he wouldn't sit down for a voluntary interview, but he was subpoenaed by the house investigating committee. so today clark appeared before the committee, and appeared before the panel for less than two hours. his attorney provided a letter saying mr. clark will abide by a future judicial decision, but for now he must decline to testify. clark's complete failure to cooperate today is unacceptable. we need the information that he is withholding and we are willing to take strong measures to hold him to his obligation. we have a national correspondent of politico who has been reporting on his deposition and she joins me now. betsy, do you have any sense of how the deposition itself went after the letter? >> that's right, the deposition clearly went quite badly. clark was in that room with his lawyer for no longer than 90 minutes. we know clark and his lawyer delivered this letter that i obtained to members of the committee and we can say with a high degree of confidence that committee investigators were not particularly impressed. the gist of this letter that i read and that we have published at politico is that because trump has tried to use executive privilege to block other people from playing ball with the select committee, that means that jeffrey clark, additionally, shouldn't have to play ball with the committee. but there's one hiccup, which is on august 2nd of this year, trump's lawyers sent out a letter specifically saying that clark and other senior doj officials wouldn't need to worry about lawsuits if they decided to cooperate. that letter specifically said trump would not go to court to try to block them from cooperating. that letter is the reason so many other senior doj officials have testified to congressional investigators and it's the reason we have such detailed knowledge of the role that clark played in the president's efforts to reverse the election outcome because those other officials have testified, because they were given the green light to testify. and in that testimony they've shared lots of information that is not particularly flattering for the former president and for mr. clark. >> but as you say, trump didn't block these former officials from testifying. he showed up today, so what was the point of not saying anything? what was the point of showing up? >> in the letter that we obtained, clark says that he was delivering the letter, he and his lawyers put it together because it's supposed to be a gesture of respect to congress. basically they decided not to totally stiff-arm the investigation, they made an appearance. the way they describe it in the letter, it's supposed to be some sort of signal of good faith. that said, the lawyer who accompanied clark to this deposition is a story in and of itself. that lawyer is an attorney from georgia named harry mcdougal. he was co-council with sidney powell in a conspiracy laden lawsuit that powell brought after the 2020 election in georgia as part of an effort to try to reverse the election results. mcdougal is the kind of lawyer who would potentially be a fact witness for this committee because he was connected to that effort. the lawsuit that he signed onto contains really whacky stuff about hugo chavez and dominion machines. that's the person that went into this deposition with jeffrey clark to advise him on how to handle it and that's part of the reason i think investigators have signaled they're very unhappy with the way this afternoon went. >> so that's the way that jeffrey clark shows respect for congress, he takes a sidney powell associate with him to congress. what are democrats going to do about this? what is bennie thompson, the committee chair going to do? they talk a good game, but will there be any action against these defiant trumpists? >> the simplest step is vote in the committee and vote on the house floor to hold him in contempt and ask the justice department to prosecute clark. the committee did that with bannon. if they decide to take that step with regard to clark, then the committee is essentially taking this pot congressional potato and handing it over to doj and hoping that doj takes the steps that they would want to take, namely prosecuting these folks who defy their subpoenas. that said, the other step the committee can take, which is more dramatic, and which one member of the committee, jamie raskin, has floated is the idea of inherent contempt, which is a tool congress hasn't used more upwards of 100 years, but where congress takes people into custody who defy congressional subpoenas. that would be extraordinary, but raskin has floated it. >> i'll believe it when i see it. you mentioned steve bannon. what has happened to steve bannon? has he faced any consequences? do we have a timeline on when merrick garland is going to make a decision? >> the biggest change that's happened is biden's nominee to head the dc u.s. attorney's office has been sworn in. so now that office, which makes the decision as to whether or not to prosecute steve bannon, is headed by someone who is a political appointee who has been confirmed by the senate. it's possible that attorneys in that office were waiting to have senate-confirmed leadership before moving forward on this issue regarding whether or not to prosecute bannon. of course, the most senior leaders in the department are also going to weigh in on this decision. one thing which people may not be happy to hear, i've talked to every smart lawyer i know about whether or not they think doj will bring charges against bannon for contempt. most, but not all have said they think doj will. i've talked to people who are smart, serious, normal lawyers who know this inside out, who said it's possible that the justice department will decide it's too politicized and they just don't want to bring the case against bannon. it's not a foregone conclusion that bannon faces charges. i think it's more likely than not, but i wouldn't bet the farm. >> me either. great reporting as ever, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. coming up, everything you need to know about the new covid treatment that reportedly reduces the risk of hospitalization or death by 89%. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back with the details. if you have blood pressure, a cold is not just a cold. unlike other cold medicines, coricidin provides powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure be there for life's best moments with coricidin. now in sugar free liquid. this is wealth. ♪ ♪ this is worth. that takes wealth. but this is worth. and that - that's actually worth more than you think. don't open that. wealth is important, and we can help you build it. but it's what you do with it, that makes life worth living. principal. for all it's worth. 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(gentle music) ♪ ♪ don't be fooled by the bike. or judge him by his jacket. while ted's eyes are on the road, his heart stays home. he's got gloria, and 10 grand-babies, to prove it. but his back made weekend rides tough, so ted called on the card that's even tougher. and the medicare coverage trusted by more doctors. medicare from blue cross blue shield. by your side, no matter what. that's the benefit of blue. find your local blue cross and blue shield plan at benefitofblue.com emergency planning for kids. we can't predict when an emergency will happen. so that's why it's important to make a plan with your parents. here are a few tips to stay safe. know how to get in touch with your family. write down phone numbers for your parents, siblings and neighbors. pick a place to meet your family if you are not together and can't go home. remind your parents to pack an emergency supply kit. making a plan might feel like homework, but it will help you and your family stay safe during an emergency. there's some great news today in the fight against covid-19. a new treatment for covid that appears to dramatically cut the risk of hospitalization and death. it's a pill made by drugmaker pfizer. the company says clinical trials have been so successful in cutting the rates of death and hospitalization in high-risk adults by 89%, that they have stopped the trials early and are asking for emergency use authorization from the fda as soon as possible. former fda commissioner scott gottlieb says he believes we could be in the final stages of the pandemic. >> i think it's the end of the pandemic, at least as it relates to the united states, is in sight right now given all the tools we have to combat this disease. this pandemic may well be over at least as it relates to the united states and we'll be in more of an endemic phase of this virus. >> given how many premature victories we've declared, i'm not so sure about that assessment myself and i'm curious about what my guest thinks. joining me is celine gounder, who served on the covid-19 advisory board. thank you so much for joining me. first off, explain to us what this experimental drug is. how effective do you believe it is based on what pfizer has told us? >> this new pfizer drug shares a lot in common with other drugs we use to treat viruses like hiv or hepatitis c. it has a different mechanism of action from the merck drug molnupiravir, which is also an oral pill that could be used to treat covid, that is also going to be reviewed by the fda. >> so, doctor gander, former fda commissioner scott gottlieb, he says the pandemic could be close to over. but over 1,000 americans died of covid-19 yesterday, more will die today and tomorrow and they will continue to fill hospital beds and leave children behind, plus breakthrough infections are a thing and winter is coming. are we really that close to the end of the pandemic or have we been here before? >> the pfizer drug, the merck drug, these are promising, but a major obstacle here to them having an impact is being able to give them very early in the course of the infection. so the pfizer drug had astounding results of 89% prevention of hospitalization and death, but it had to be given within three days of the onset of symptoms. and so for these drugs to really be game-changers, we have to have a revolution in our health system. essentially you need to be able to walk into your corner drugstore, get the test. if you the rest positive, they screen you to make sure it's safe to give you the medication and you're able then to walk away with the pills without an additional visit. you shouldn't have to pay a co-pay. if you don't have insurance, it should be for free. if that does not happen, it's very unlikely that these drugs are going to have a significant impact here. >> yeah, just so hard to anticipate and predict. such a resilient virus. dr. gottlieb talked about the pandemic being over, but he added the caveat, at least as far as america is concerned. this, of course, is a global pandemic. according to "the new york times," over 51% of the global population has been vaccinated. if we look at how the data breaks down, the u.s. and canada are at 68% with at least one dose, europe is at 60%, only 8.7% of the population of africa is partially vaccinated, one dose at least. so as long as this uneven distribution continues, do we have any chance of ending what is a global pandemic? >> i think we declared mission accomplished back in may, june or so, far too early. and i hope we learned from the experience with the delta variant that as long as you allow the virus to spread anywhere in the world, new variants, which are more infectious, potentially more virulent, can emerge elsewhere and threaten our own recovery. right now in this country, it looks like we may be at the beginning of a new resurgence. we are about three to four weeks behind europe. they tend to predict -- their patterns tend to predict what we see here and they are seeing a resurgence. the numbers have come down and now they look like they're hovering and are about to come up and i think the next few weeks will tell whether they are going to hit 'a resurgence. >> great, feels like i've seen this movie before. one last question. there is still an ongoing argument amongst politicians about whether it was the right move to close schools during the pandemic, especially pre the delta variant. in hindsight, what do you think as a scientist about how we happened school closures during the pandemic? was it justified? >> well, i think it depends on when. i think in the spring of 2020, absolutely. and i think we had to act out of an abundance of caution at that point in time. i think by the fall of 2020 we understood that if you combined masks, improved ventilation and testing, you could have kids back in the classroom safely. the problem is not every school district had the resources or desire to do so, but we know we can get kids back in the classroom safely when you implement those other measures, and not to mention that now we also have vaccinations to further protect students and staff as well. >> yeah, that debate will carry on. one last quick question before i let you go. do you have any advice for somebody watching at home who says, i'm fully vaccinated, i'm good, holidays come, no restrictions for me? >> look, we know that there's still a risk of breakthrough infections. vaccines provide a relative risk reduction, so a percentage risk reduction relative to how much virus is in the community. it's not perfect. so if you are around people who have covid and there's a lot of covid in the community, you are still at risk. >> it's not a message people want to hear and i understand why. but it's a message that has to keep getting out. dr. celine gounder, thank you for your time. nikki haley is calling for cognitive tests for older politicians. it seems like maybe she's forgetting something or someone. that's coming up next. >> person, woman, man, camera, tv. okay, that's very good. if you get it in order, you get extra points. hey, guys! they have customized solutions to help our family's special needs... giving us confidence in our future... ...and in kevin's. voya. well planned. well invested. well protected. for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. discover card i just got my cashback match is this for real? yup! we match all the cash back new card members earn at the end of their first year automatically woo! i got my mo-ney! it's hard to contain yourself isn't it? uh- huh! well let it go! woooo! get a dollar for dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover. i booked our hotel on kayak. it's flexible if we need to cancel. cancel. i haven't left the house in a year. nothing will stop me from vacation. no canceling. flexible cancellation. kayak. search one and done. from what i hear, if you look at mr. pillsbury, the leading authority on china, he was on a good show, i won't mention the name of the show, recently, and he was saying that china has total respect for donald trump and for donald trump's very, very large brain. >> regardless of what mr. pillsbury or even china's opinion of donald trump's brain may be, the 45th president's time in office raised massive questions about whether or not his brain was up to the task. and so it makes it hard to believe that his former u.n. ambassador was talking about donald trump's successor when she said this. >> if you're going to have anyone above a certain age in a position of power, whether it's the house, whether it's the senate, whether it's vice president, whether it's president, you should have some sort of cognitive test. just like you have to show your tax returns, you should have some sort of health screening so that people have faith in what you're doing. >> i don't even know where to begin with that. number one, nikki haley's former boss never shared his tax returns with the public. he went to the supreme court not once, but twice, to prevent new york state authorities from getting his financial records. and number two, does she really think anyone, even donald's closest aides, had any faith in his cognitive abilities while he was in office? did trump himself? >> the radical left was saying, is he all there, is he all there, and i proved i was all there because i aced the test. i took it at walter reed medical center in front of doctors and they were very surprised. they said, that's an unbelievable thing, rarely does anybody do what you just did. their last questions are much more difficult, like a memory question. it's like you'll go person, woman, man, camera, tv. so they say, could you repeat that? so i said, yeah. so it's person, woman, man, camera, tv. okay, that's very good. if you get it in order, you get extra points. >> incidentally, i took the test, too, when i heard that you passed it. it's not the hardest test. >> i bet you couldn't answer the last five questions. they get very hard, the last five. >> one of them was count back from 100 by 7. >> nikki haley was around for all of that, and if she doesn't remember that, maybe she's the one who needs a cognitive test. you know, person, woman, man, camera, tv. yes, i got it. coming up, on the subject of cognition, the latest from the insane saga of rudy giuliani. that's next. what you'll need, and help you build a flexible plan for cash flow that lasts, even when you're not working, so you can go from saving... to living. ♪ let's go ♪ so you can go from saving... to living. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ discover card i just got my cashback match is this for real? 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>> all the networks. >> oh, my goodness, all the networks. wow. all the networks. we have toe forget about the law. >> we see now what was always apparent. they were incompensate people. rudy guiliani went from respected mayor. with lies as his hair die tripped down his face. now msnbc has gotten video. where guiliani was asked about his wildly false claims about the voting machine company. >> sometimes i go and look myself when stuff comes up. this time, i didn't have the time to do it. it's not my job in a fast moving case to go out and investigate every piece of evidence that's given to me. otherwise, you're never going to write a story. >> yeah. why bother with fact checking when you can just make something up. the molto of all true trumpists. peter stone is an investigative journalist who's reported on rudy guiliani for the guardian, the atlantic and most recently for new york magazine where he says prosecutors are probably screwed. guiliani said he didn't check some of the false accusations he made before he made them. what kind of legal trouble does that put him in? >> i would think it would put him in a good bit of legal trouble. because as prosecutors have told me. former prosecutors, that kind of statement is exactly what happened -- what got rudy guiliani's license suspended in new york. the fact that he was -- went ahead and made statements in the courts, in public, and in other venues, statements that were just totally false. and having made a statement like that in the deposition is in some way giving him rope to hang him on. i think it's going to make his prospect for getting out of this -- much bleaker. it's not over yet but right now it seems to be moving in a direction where he will have some real problems with the ultimate verdict in this defamation lawsuit. it's only one of two, as you know. there's another one coming as well. so guiliani is basically hanging himself here in some ways. >> is there any reason to think that donald trump could get intertwined in these lawsuits? >> i don't know about the lawsuits, but in terms of the investigation underway in new york by the southern district which is looking at whether or not guiliani broke a old lobbing law that requires people who act as agents of a foreign government or officials or entities to register the justice department that does have a potential link to trump. because what guiliani was doing in ukraine on behalf of trump, working with -- or talking to ex prosecutors, government officials in ukraine as they sought dirt on joe biden, as part of his effort for trump, it overlapped. the question will be whether the justice department and prosecutors pull together enough evidence. they seem to have a lot of evidence. they wouldn't have been able to get a judge to authorize a raid on his apartment and office back in april where they picked up 18 electronic devices, cell phones, and computers, with enormous amounts of material involving guiliani and his interaction with ukrainian officials. they could never have gotten this kind of authorization from the court, the judge, but it would show that they had a lot of hard evidence. >> now that's -- >> peter, what is -- what is -- i was going to ask, what is the status of that investigation into guiliani, do we know? >> a special master was appointed new york courts that some of this should be protected by lawyer-client privilege. the special master in the court has gone through almost all of the material i-think there are three outside standing matters now as we reported just the other day where guiliani may be able to hold on so some of this electronic equipment. but the prosecutors seem to have pe enormous amount of material already in her hands. and it's coming to a time when we could see charges, potentially brought in the next couple of months if they feel like they have sufficient evidence to charge him on violations of what's known as the foreign agencies registration act. there could be other charges as well potentially. >> and guiliani associate was recently convicted on campaign finance charges. what are the chances that impact on jum and all the legal trouble he's already in at bottom soint soon. >> well, guiliani was not implicated in the illegal campaign contribution scheme. but it was one of two soviet-born men who were guiliani tapped to help him obtain information in ukraine that would damage biden. that information turned out to be largely speculative, almost entirely speculative and was widely debunked. parness, though, while guiliani was not implicated in the trial just concluded, another trial coming up, another scheme that he was involved with where guiliani may have dib may be implicated in some fashion. he had a company he started with another friend that was called fraud guarantee. the name is almost a joke when you hear the charges, because fraud guarantee was used -- sold to investors as a way of protecting them against rip-offs and fraud. turns out that -- >> wow. >> $2 bhrl given by over half a dozen investors to this company and mr. parnass and his associate who was convicted and pled guilty is now in jail, they took almost all that money and used it for personal possessions. you know, high living, basically. cars and other things, jewelry, all sorts of things they wanted. >> afternoon -- >> we've run out of time. >> i have to talk briefly. what happened to rudy guiliani? a rot of people look at him. whatever you think about his politics, he was a serious guy after 9/11. how did he become this parody figure now? >> people are trying to figure that out. it's a head scratcher. a well known republican operative charlie black told me for the story that he thinks it has a hot to do with his getting mixed up with donald trump. i think that's a lot of it. but i think there's also perhaps other factors involved. but he certainly put all his bets on, you know, trying to keep trump in power and he took a lot of actions that are now getting him, you know, in a good bit of legal scrutiny and could ultimately lead to, you know, a conviction against him. he says his -- >> it could be -- >> license could be suspended -- >> a bizarre and to rudy guiliani's long career in public life. peter stone, we'll have to receive it there. thank you for your time and your reporting. that does it for "all in." this week i'll talk about what critical race theory actually is. make sure you stick around until 10:00 on sunday night because one year to the day after rudy guiliani held his infamous press conference at four seasons, not that four seasons, it's the premier of the delightful four seasons total documentary. that's sunday right here on msnbc. the rachel maddow show starts now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening. thank you, my friend. much preached. thanks for joining us. happy friday. this was good news. there was a bunch of good news today and this is the news that i woke up to today that i almost couldn't believe. the trial took about 1200 people who got covid, and within five days of starting to show symptoms, half of the people in the trial got the drug,