it's like a few sentences. [laughs] and she is expressing her agreement an acceptance of another elizabeth warren tax the rich idea. in this case rich corporations, tax on corporations that report over billion dollars in profit in minimum tax that 15%. senator warren is now the junior most democratic member of the senate finance committee which she got on specifically to get her hand in tax writing. she has chairmen -- on her side and now senator sinema, tonight they issued the statement saying that works for me and the infrastructure bill. >> now on the, so let me just ask you this because i know you've been covering the slightly, the objections such as we understand them from senator sinema haven't in part about how the build back better bill was going to be paid for. she was objecting to lots of the proposals because she does not pay for. now one thing she is in favor of his this corporate minimum tax rate, does senator manchin also say he is in favor of that corporate minimum tax rate. because if so that means we're gonna get a corporate minimum tax rate. >> he has not said he's opposed. he has plenty of time to say he is opposed [laughs] and i mention english that basically means he's on board. >> for now. [laughs] >> yeah it does sound like senator manchin's on board with this. this is the time to jump up in a position if he does. and he's not doing that. so if the white house is supporting this approach because they need taxation to pay for this and senator sinema is really the only democrat who standing in the way of the taxation package that was already in the bill, which is a bunch of things that they kind of already know how to do, like raise the top income tax rate things like that. >> well the problem though with all of this is whether or not any of these objections and the supposed wish list from sinema and manchin are real, or whether there real goals to make sure democrats don't do anything and they get all the credit. if they like being centers of attention and holding the stop and making sure nothing happens, the longer the delay the more special interests lobby forward and pay campaign donations, then you know this is now the perfect opportunity for senator manchin to say i haven't waited on that corporate minimum tax, but since it's been discussed now i'm totally against it. everybody gets to go back to the drawing room and he gets to collect for the next ongoing weeks until this thing ultimately plays out. am i showing my cynicism? >> here is my optimistic guest, rachel, you know me i'm an optimist. my optimistic guest, i remember now this is someone who has not had the chance to speak to senator manchin, or senator sinema about this, the person who's about to say this, and i don't expect to get that chance, i believe joe manchin is trying to make a deal, and still i have no idea what senator sinema is trying to do, but she is getting closer it's down like she's getting closer. >> she said yes to anything. >> she said yes to a thing. >> she said yes to a thing. >> we can put our flag in that you said yes to a thing. [laughs] stop the presses. >> we are almost there. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you, rachel. >> president biden was actually late leaving the white house tonight to go to virginia where he campaigned for terry mcauliffe the democratic candidate -- got a late start because he squeezed in last-minute meeting with two senators, by this time you really should be able to guess which two. senator joe manchin and senator kyrsten sinema met with the president before he left for virginia. now it is unclear whether each senator had a separate meeting with the president, or if they were all in the room together it would be better if they were all in the room together. they could reach an agreement. but it is possible that senator sinema, or senator manchin each have separate agendas that they want to discuss privately with the president. the new hot topic of the day that was surely part of the discussions tonight, was that new tax proposal by the chairman of the senate's tax writing committee ron white, who is rewriting a tax proposal from the newest democratic member of that committee elizabeth warren. designed to create a minimum 15% tax on corporations that report over one billion dollars in profits. senator angus king who is not a member of the finance committee joined senator warren and -- in a written statement about the proposal saying the corporate profits minimum tax will ensure companies that report over one billion dollars in profits to shareholders pale east a 15% tax rate on those gigantic profits. based on estimates for similar proposals, this proposal would generate hundreds of billions in revenue over ten years. the most important thing said about that proposal the heyday, came in a written statement from the perpetually silent senator sinema, who said this proposal represents a common sense step toward ensuring highly profitable corporations, which sometimes can avoid the current corporate tax rate, pay reasonable minimum corporate tax on their profits just as every day arizonans and arizona small businesses do. i look forward to continuing discussions with the white house and colleagues to expand economic opportunities, retain america's economic competitiveness, and help arizona families get ahead. senator sinema has been the single most difficult democrat to police on the tax side of the biden infrastructure package, the part of the bill that actually pays for the rest of the bill. campaigning for democrat terry mcauliffe tonight, president biden said this,. >> i have people working today than just before the pandemic started. household wealth is up, people are buying more things, manufacturing is up, we're on the move, we are on the right track, but we have more to do. if you are looking for someone who's going to keep your cotton growing and growing, the man behind me is the man to get it done. >> a new poll by usa today says the governor race is a tie, it could not be tighter with terry mcauliffe at 45.6%, and glenn youngkin at 45.2%. president obama campaigned for terry mcauliffe over the weekend, the mcauliffe campaign is in effect keeping president obama on the campaign trail in virginia through this television ad. >> virginia, you have a lot of responsibility this year. not only are you choosing an ex governor, but you are also making a statement about what direction we are heading in as a country. i know terry mcauliffe, and i can tell you as governor no one worked harder for their state. i also watched terry stand strong on the values we all care about, protecting every citizen's right to vote, fighting climate change, and defending a woman's right to choose. >> the republican candidate for governor virginia is focusing his closing measures to voters on banning books. including a book that when the pulitzer prize. this is the subject of his latest campaign ad. >> as a parent it is tough to catch everything, so when my son showed me his reading assignment, my heart sunk. it was some of the most explicit material you can imagine, and met with lawmakers they could not believe what i was showing them. their faces turned bright red with embarrassment. they passed bills, requiring schools to notify parents when explicit content was assigned. it was bipartisan, it gave parents a say, the option to choose an alternative for my children. it was so grateful. but then governor terry mcauliffe vetoed it, twice, he doesn't think parents should have a say. he said that. he shut us out. glenn youngkin, he listens, he understands parents matter. join me in voting for glenn youngkin. >> the book was beloved which won the pulitzer prize in 1998. her son was lucky enough to be a sign that book in his high school advanced placement english class when he was a senior. her son brett murphy survived the experience of holding tony morrison's poll surprise-winning book in his hands, and went on to serve as an intern in donald trump's white house. the young man is now a lawyer for the national republican congressional committee where he spent every day trying to help raise money for republicans support donald trump's lies about the elections and dreams of returning donald trump to the presidency. we don't know why his mother's reaction was to donald trump's self favorite method of sexual assault that we all heard on the access hollywood video, but after that she was still very eager to get her kid an internship in the trump white house. we later in this hour we will be joined by the distinguished professor daniel williams who is now the dean of graduate studies at howard university she previously served as the chair of english department, and is the president of the tony morrison society. we begin tonight with the presidents campaign for his legislative agenda, and his campaign to hold on to the governorship of the state of virginia for democrats. leading off our discussion tonight is larry sabato thank you very much for joining us tonight, i just want to go straight to where president biden said tonight in virginia about this book controversy. >> he's closing his campaign, he's gone from banning a woman's right to choose, to banning books written by a pulitzer prize and nobel prize winning author, 20 morrison. my wife jill, went to princeton and interviewed her, let's be clear, this is a guy who doesn't know much about anything. >> how is this look controversy playing in virginia? >> it's playing with exactly the people you would expect, lawrence, conservative republicans who are going to vote for youngkin anyways as long as they show up. this is designed along with youngkin ridiculous attacked on critical race theory which isn't even taught in virginia schools. amazing isn't it the way these connections are to a black woman, and two black theory of race, all of these things seem to connect, they are all dog whistles. this is typical, but it is designed to get the republicans out to vote and it is working. the enthusiasm level of republicans as several orders of magnitude higher than democrats, and it has been growing over october. that is the problem for mcauliffe -- >> pointed out tonight that youngkin's own son went to georgetown trap which is a 40,000 dollar a year private school, at least 40 maybe more, at least 20 morrison is required reading. let's go to another subject here this republican candidate is endorsed by normal trump, but he doesn't want donald trump in the neighborhood during the campaign. joe biden talked about that tonight let's listen to that. >> he won't allow donald trump to campaign for him in the state, and he's willing to pledge his loyalty for trump in private, why not in public. what is he trying to hide. is there a problem with trump being here? is he embarrassed? >> larry, i suspect we're going to hear from donald trump tonight about that? >> while you would think so. terry mcauliffe said at one point he would pay to have donald trump and his entourage flown to virginia so he can make a personal appeal for glenn youngkin. but i would like to put it this way, trumpism glenn youngkin's view just an acquaintance, not a friend. he was once the friend while he was wearing for the republican nomination, he said lots of great things about trump he was thrilled that trump has endorsed him five times. but now he barely knows how to wheel the name, you are going to see a lot of that in 2022. it's typical of what's going to happen next year. >> so what is, was -- does the mcauliffe campaign really want to stress the word trump from here on in? what's the best approach for the mcauliffe campaign at this point? >> the best approach for mcauliffe, it's obviously to enthuse democrats. he is trying to do that bringing president obama all the other democratic stars in, president biden to the extent they can. they are doing. the problem for mcauliffe is, he can't control the embarrassment in d.c.. it has been embarrassing. the fact that you still have democratic senators, house members parading between for the cameras daily, and not getting the job done. mcauliffe i know, was more or less promise that it would be done before the election, well before they had hoped, but certainly this week. here we are, the president is getting ready to go abroad, we were expected to have both bills at least sized up for passage, and people are still arguing about details. it is depressing for mcauliffe he can't control it, he is deeply angry about it, and he should be. he is doing what he can do. well that was joe biden still laying getting over there tonight was the last minute with senator manchin, and senator sinema, i'm sure joe biden feels that at least the strongly about this as terry mcauliffe does. if we get to a point on election lie, and we wake up the next day and there is a republican elected governor of virginia, and we still don't have an agreement among congressional democrats on the infrastructure, the two track infrastructure bills, will that be the reason? >> i would put it if not at the top, towards the top. you have to also include the fact that president biden's ratings have been falling because of covid, because of the economic problems related to it, but one thing democrats could actually have done, and i suppose still do, it's to pass those two big bills and to prove the democrats there is the reason for voting. democrats actually do deliver on their promises, right now they cannot say that. >> what about the possibility the speaker is trying to get this done is least passed through the house the bipartisan bill that has already passed through the senate so the president can sign that as soon as possible, possibly even before he leaves on thursday? >> that would be a big plus. i am sure the mcauliffe campaign would be delighted, because there are specific parts of that bill that very much applied of virginia. terry mcauliffe having been governor for four years does exactly how they would apply, he would talk about the details of that. so the other bill i don't even think anybody knows what's in it, the build back better bill, it will take us three weeks to figure out within their. we know what's in the infrastructure bill, why not go ahead, past that, get it signed. get mcauliffe to talk at some length about a specifically project here in northern virginia, hampton roads, richmond suburbs, these things are concrete and they would help him. tina polsky he larry sabato thank you so much for starting us off tonight we really appreciate it. joining us now is the former campaign manager and senior -- president barack obama his political analyst and i just want you to invite you to pick up where larry left off, would help in virginia? >> well first of all i agree with larry sabato that youngkin's book ad may help with her now. but i think it's going to help -- glenn youngkin is closing his campaign the way he might imagine in 1966 this is virginia of 2021. but there is no doubt that this democrats being able to celebrate a big legislative package they will have concrete results are people in virginia, would be helpful there is no question about that but i agree with larry turnout is key here. now the polls show republicans -- when you look at the early vote numbers i think it's less presence there. but at the end of the day it's going to be a close race and i think even if terry mcauliffe wins they will have to step back and say we won virginia by ten we're not gonna win by ten again even if he wins, some of that you need in virginia bow app and with swing voters this surround base and you've got a year to basically try and fix that, there is no doubt if you have two major pieces of legislation that you can do storytelling in every town in america every family in america. that is most important subsequent things to do for people but it's also great political material that every incumbents can live off of, and every challenge say that the republican incumbent they're running against all these things that would have. if you're in the white house, and you know this discussion, and you know there's been this kind of oh, where there is basically an informal vote around the room about should we push for passing the bipartisan senate bill through the house immediately, as fast as possible. and then get to the other part of the bill later, or should we keep them both tied together? would you be voting for let's ask the speaker to try to get it through as fast as possible on its own? so we can have a bill signing ceremony at least on that? >> lawrence you know this really well. from an optic standpoint, and also to help with virginia, of course you'd say let's celebrate the one. the problem, is with that comes all of the deal, making and you don't have big margin. no margin in the senate and very low in the house. that really is the most important thing, you can't do anything risky that would unravel. it's incredibly important. she's basically saying she's okay with the paid force, and i think that probably is the bigger shifting point, then the programs that are going to get afforded, probably later on the one or two yard line. here so if everybody says yeah that's, fine because you know it will help the virginia, we've all come to agreement. of course you do that. but things are super precarious, you've got to put that principle first, which is you don't want to do anything dumb, that might help you in the short, term but that will unravel in the long term. >> that meeting, that last-minute meeting that the president had tonight, just before rushing off to virginia, it seems that he is hoping, in each one of these, meetings to be the final deal closing handshaking so that they can go public, and it didn't quite get there tonight. i assume, he'll be trying to use every hour, before he leaves town on thursday. >> absolutely, i've seen him up, close he's a good closer, he holds people to their, word he's a great listener, and that's one of the reasons that i think he's been such an effective negotiator to his, career including now sitting behind the desk at the oval office. i think that's what he wants. he wants to get this done to help with virginia. he wants to get this done before it goes overseas. most importantly he wants to get it done for the american, people and i think they made a very important, point if you want to go back in report to your shareholders accentuated, this is going to help everybody in america whether they voted for joe biden or not. for everybody who voted, in volunteered, and contributed, you would go back and say it's only because of you, that were able to deliver. and i think you have to report that to the shareholders, the sooner we can do that the better. >> this is what you'd be consulted on in this way house if you are still there. let's get to the point where both bills are passed. and you've got two different bills, which means you have the opportunity for two different signing ceremonies. do you have a separate signing ceremony on the bipartisan bill, infrastructure bill? and do you invite mitch mcconnell, because he voted for it? and if he comes, do you hands him one of the bill signing pens? >> i think, you obviously need to talk about these as a piece. but why not take the opportunity to show that you can bring republicans together, how could he do that in washington but then you go out on the road, and talk about the infrastructure. then i think with build back better, i don't think there's a lot of knowledge outside of people who are paying very close attention about what's in the bill. democrats are a little bit behind the eight ball there. you have to go out there and talk about the home health care, and the health care expansions. and pre-kindergarten. you have to go out there and do that for basically the next year, i think you'd want to talk about these with the same language, the same values. this is all about happening to the middle class. we're trying to help people get into the middle class. working families. the wealthiest country and companies, and individuals are paying for, it so that's all under one umbrella. i think you want to have the opportunity lawrence, to show this is one we're able to bring together republicans and talk about the infrastructure piece. which is a little easier messaging. i think that's more familiar people. still important, and taken for granted, but i do think the elements of build back better, democrats earned deficit right now. most of america in terms of what they know in the democrats. they're arguing about it, it's two trillion, is it three trillion, and the really important program and developments i don't think i've been listed. yet there's plenty of time to do. that i think that's with the white house and democratic member of congress should make the cornerstone of the, next year making sure you go to every, hamlet in america, and speaking in great detail about how people are benefiting, and, who paid for those benefits average families are enjoying. >> david plouffe, thank you very much for joining us tonight, we really appreciate it. thank you. coming up, arizona secretary of state katie, hobbs who testified in the senate, today about her threats, that she and her family have faced, she will join us next. join us next join us next bipolar depression. it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda 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when your family is getting through a, and when you're worried about the safety of your children, and your husband, why not look at it and say, well i have served, i have done my services secretary of state of this state. it is now become an untenable, it's unsafe. i'm not going to continue to do this. >> i was elected by the voters of arizona to do a job. i took an oath to uphold the constitution of the united states, in the constitution and laws of arizona, and i have done that. i am going to continue to do the job that the voters elected me to do, i don't have another choice here, because if it wasn't, me who else would be here doing this, and, this is the kind of thing we have to continue to stand up to, it's why i'm running for governor, we need leaders who are going to stand up and protect our democracy. and tell the truth about what our constituents need to, here whether it's elections, or the pandemic, or whatever else. if folks want to join in, they can go to katie hobbs dot org, but i'm going to keep doing the job that voters of arizona elected me to do. >> there is more testimony at the hearing today, from others who participated, including a republican, an election official who talked about the threats to his, life that he has been subjected to. and he has decided, that's, it i'm not going to run for reelection. i'm not going to keep doing this. and i, come back to this because, i don't want anyone taking it for granted, that this happens to you, and then you just continue to do your work. my first question to myself, if i was in that situation is, am i going to continue to do. this and i have strong doubts that i would. under the circumstances you're in. i want to kind of grant you, the courage that you're actually displaying in, this and not taken for granted. what was it like for you to hear from this other official today? i know you've heard it from, others that they've had, they're done, they're quitting, they're getting out of this. >> i think this is one of the biggest threats to our democracy, and to election administration as we look to the, future is that we are losing a really good election officials. this is a skilled area, that's highly specialized, and its people for the most part is step up to be public servants, they're not elected officials. and we're losing a lot of those folks, we've seen turn over an hour, office at local election offices in arizona, and this is a big concern moving forward. in terms of how elections are going to be administered. by either parties, and people with a partisan agenda, or folks who are professional and want to uphold the integrity of the process. >> how do you feel about the integrity of what will be your next election, where you will be running, in the election for governor? >> we elect election officials. i took an oath, as i said, to uphold the constitution of the united states, in the constitution of the state of arizona. and the fact that i'm going to be on the, bell it whether it's for running freely election or governor. i'm going to continue to do the job i was elected to do. and uphold that oath that i took, and i take extremely seriously. >> will republicans in the state, we, the republicans in the state of arizona, are they just interested in tampering with the presidential election, or are they interested in tampering with all of the elections for all of the offices in arizona? >> i think that what you saw play out in arizona, with the sham audit, is exactly designed to justified, tampering with future elections, to justify making it harder for people to vote, and, so certainly we are going to see these kind of attacks on our elections, continue to play out. intel people are held accountable, for these actions. >> if this terror campaign works. the ultimate version of it working, is the honest people, who are terrorized out of these jobs, will be replaced, by these trump cultists. >> that's absolutely a reason to stand strong and not let them win. i'm not going anywhere. >> arizona secretary of state katie, hobbs thank you very much for joining, us thank you for doing the work that you do, and i am so impressed, that you continue to do it. >> thank you. >> coming up, the biden administration continues to make progress, in overcoming the coronavirus pandemic. in ron desantis florida. the state surgeon general that he appointed, is refusing to say if he has been vaccinated. has been vaccinated. wealth is your first big investment. worth is a partner to help share the load. wealth is saving a little extra. worth is knowing it's never too late to start - or too early. ♪ ♪ wealth helps you retire. worth is knowing why. ♪ ♪ principal. for all it's worth. when you're driving a lincoln, stress seems to evaporate into thin air. which leaves us to wonder, where does it go? 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florida state senator, had to ask him to leave her office, after he refused to wear a mask, even after she told him, that she has a serious medical condition. joining us now is democratic florida state senator, gina poll. ski her district is parts of robert and palm beach counties. thank you very much for joining us, tonight we very much appreciate it. we've all right about this meeting, and it's reported as you throwing the surgeon general out of your office. because he, would not wear a mask. how, tell us how the dialogue went. he came in, and you asked him to wear a mask. in what happened? >> hi lawrence, thanks for having me tonight. yes he requested a meeting, because the senate has to confirm his position. he is not confirmed as of yet. so we asked for a meeting, i have a please wear a mask sign on the outside of my office. i was wearing a mask, my aid was. he came in with two aides. i asked him to put on a, mask any would not do so. and unfortunately, this dialogue went on for quite some time. it became kind of a debate or negotiation. where he kept trying to deflect and offer alternatives. except the simple alternative of putting a little piece of fabric over his face. for a few minutes, well i got a chance to talk to him. so it was really quite disturbing. especially since he is supposed to be the top health official in the state. of 21 million people. and i told him i had a serious health condition, hoping that would gain some sympathy, and get him to put on a mask. but he still refused. >> you are immunocompromised, he's a doctor. he's supposed to know better. we now know, that he is not serious about public health. but we also know, through his own words, that this man, is an abject liar, because this is his public explanation, in writing. about why he would not wear a mask. when you asked him to. he said, it's important to me to communicate clearly ineffectively with people. i cannot do that when half of my face is covered. now, that was one thing to say two years ago, when only doctors and dentists had been wearing these masks. but we have all been wearing them. we have all been talking to each other, clearly. easily, it is in office environments and in other indoor environments. in that is a lie. every word of what he said about why he wouldn't wear a mask. is a lie. do we have any idea, other than possible orders from the governor? the truth of why he wore a mask? >> i wish i could figure out and get into his. head i said to him specifically, is there a reason why you cannot wear a mask, i was trying to be understanding if there was a problem, and he would not give me an answer. he kind of smiled smugly, and tried to turn the conversation. and he kept trying to engage. me and here we were standing in a small room, and having the exact interaction that i was trying to avoid, of being with people who are not masked. it's not a large area at all, so, i don't know what's in his mind. he's obviously anti-, mask anti unfit to be the surgeon general. he didn't care about my health, so imagine how he would care about the health of 21 million floridians. i really hope that this nomination gets pulled, or if it does, not that the senate refuses to confirm him. >> he is such an already confirms public liar. the most important human communication, every day in this country, and the world, takes place through masks. and that is communication among surgical teams. surgeons and everyone else working in the surgical theater, are all masked, all the time. in every word they say to each other's, clear it is understood. in every word is a matter of life and death. in this lying, doctor is now saying, that he was afraid you would not understand the words he was, saying if he had a mask on. >> i said specifically to, him when he would not put on a, mask he said i don't like to do interviews with a mask. and i said i can hear you, perfectly i conducted dozens of, meetings in my office, of 100 percent compliance, no one's ever complains, about putting out a, mask and i haven't had to go with telling them that i have a serious medical condition. and i had to go to that step with him, and he just didn't respect my wishes. he came to my office. and that's really the shame of, imagine a doctor who does not respect the wishes of someone who's telling them, that they need this accommodation. and he wanted me to accommodate him, to go into the hallway, or outside, it just didn't make any. since he came to my, office to seek my vote, it's dumbfounding, i don't understand where he was trying to do, i don't understand his position, and honestly i'm so scared for this person to become our next surgeon general, for any length of time. what about the next public health emergency that we have, how is he going to handle it. he's not using any of the tools that we have available to, us with masks and vaccines. he's not interested in the. in the other major issue we will have an our hands is childhood vaccines, and they're not happening at the rate they're supposed, do and he is coming off as anti vax, so how is he going to handle that next public health emergency. it's truly frightening. >> he actually wrote in the wall street journal that he things, will not stop the spread of covid-19. it is a desperate situation for public health in commercial. >> thank you very much for joining us i'm sorry for what she had to go through. >> thank you. lawrence >> coming up, the president, of the tony morrison society, will join us next. society, will join us next society, will join us next we have to be able to repair the enamel on a daily basis. with pronamel repair toothpaste, we can help actively repair enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. is struggling to manage your type 2 diabetes knocking you out of your zone?te lowering your a1c with once-weekly ozempic® can help you get back in it. oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! my zone... lowering my a1c, cv risk, and 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it has been a sign for some high school seniors in advanced placement english class. is now part of the closing message of the republican campaign for governor, in virginia. joining us now, is professor dana williams, she is the dean of graduate studies at howard university. she formally served as the chair of english department and is the president of the tony morrison society. professor williams, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i just want to give you an open microphone, an open field, for your reaction to what you are seeing in this virginia governor's campaign. them using the beloved as a device for the republican candidate. >> thank you so much florence for the invitation. i think it's interesting in a number of ways, on the one hand, literature professors of course all over are really interested in the conversation because we think of censorship a lot, we talk about it, we understand it's implications. but on the other, or anything that has people talking about 20 morrison is something that we can get excited about. not just beloved, but a number of her books have been on the banned books list. son of solomon, paradise -- and we understand all of the reasons why, everything from the content there and the kind of material that's in the book explains why some people want to ban it. but, on a deeper level, we also have to think about it from the perspective of a conservativism that really doesn't want to have the kind of conversations that beloved has. that book really forces us to grapple with racial history, it forces us to grapple with the contradictions. a big part of beloved actually is about that conflict between the past and the present. on the one hand, the narrative thrust is really about forgetting the past. the characters have finally escaped is slave mint and they want that not to have to think about it again, even as they are supposed plantation owner was good comparatively. but, there is no such thing of course is good enslavement. so they want to forget that. but then there's this character who says maybe we can't just forget, not only do we have to remember but we have to grapple with and confront the past and the present movement. so, the book really does incredible work for all of those reasons. so, in some sense, it's banned for the same reasons that it's actually a wonderful work to read. >> yeah, and to see it used literally in a campaign, tv ad. they don't mention the book -- and possibly the reason, obviously the mansion was the reason they don't mention the book is that it is a great book -- and if you don't mention what the book is, for most people, you're gonna completely defang the whole powering concept of that commercial. >> yeah, i agree. but what the book tells us and really the controversy around it tells us, is that ultimately even as we are reluctant to admit there are limits to open thought in our society, in subsidence. we don't really believe in intellectual freedom, or intellectual pursuit as much as we tend to think we do. and then, we also have to think about the book and the banning in a major election as a reflection on choice, or ideas of choice in education. so on the one hand, you're arguing for the choice of parents to be able to make decisions. but then you are also arguing that we teachers and curriculum the designers, and writers, don't really know how to make good choices and books. of course, we teach us about those things that have been erased and there are some things that only fiction can bring to life. there are some stories that you can't tell historically, and then when we have the tradition of historical racers in the u.s., it's really important for books to do that work. tony morrison was as clear about that is any writer that i have ever read. >> the you mentioned the possibility of it actually attracting attention to tony morrison, which i hope it does. as we leave, give us your top three must read, go out and buy right now, tony morrison books. >> oh, absolutely. paradise is probably the first on my list because it challenges us to think about american democracy. i would say we, i really enjoy god bless the child, the last book that tony wrote. and then son of solomon is probably this top of my list of all books, not just morrison books. >> that's a better way of putting it, all books, professor daniel williams thank you very much for joining us tonight. appreciate it. >> my pleasure, thank you. >> tonight's last word is next. thank you. >> tonight's last word is next >> tonight's last word is next bipolar depression. it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no 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that is tonight's last word, the 11th hour with brian williams starts now. some some wall, good evening, once again 280 of the biden ministration. and there is breaking news indeed tonight, on the january 6th investigation. washington post reporting the house select committee expected to subpoena one john eastman, he is the pro trump lawyer who outlined scenarios for overturning the election results, in trump's favor. the post reports quote, it will happen chair bennie thompson said in an interview tuesday of a subpoena for eastman. who played a key role in a legal operation that was run out of a command center at the willard hotel, in washington, in the days and hours leading up to the january six. house investigators are also focusing on getting more witnesses to coo

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