effects on your retirement funds and your ability to borrow money. it could bring a halt to social security benefits, medicare benefits. millions of jobs could be wiped out. why would washington even think of risking all of that not to mention the catastrophic impact on america's standing in the world? to be clear, raising the debt limit is to cover money already spent during the trump administration. raising the debt ceiling right now does not authorize any of president biden's future spending plans. and to start us off this hour, we have nbc news capitol hill reporter leigh ann caldwell, jake sherman, and yamiche alcindor. yamiche and jake are both msnbc contributors. jake, i saw a tweet where you tweeted some news and it was prefaced with two siren emojis. that's not the tweet i'm talking about. bring us up to speed on this offer from mitch mcconnell to chuck schumer today. >> mitch mcconnell offered -- told republicans he would offer a short term debt ceiling increase until december or an expedited reconciliation process. what he's offering is republicans would support a short term debt ceiling offer which takes a lot of pressure off this process and would allow democrats to get the reconciliation process done and include the debt limit in that reconciliation process. not entirely clear that all republicans are on board. not entirely clear that chuck schumer is on board. but a significant offer from mcconnell to schumer in this increasingly tense standoff. >> so in some ways, is this a no-win situation for chuck schumer? accept a deal and we're back here soon, or reject it and look like he's obstructing a solution. >> yeah, it's not an ideal position for anybody, geoff. i mean, it's not an ideal position to have this debt limit fighting always happening. and this would also line up the debt ceiling with government funding at the beginning of december. so really not a great situation. but it does not seem -- it seems increasingly clear that republicans are not going to back off their filibuster and increasingly clear that democrats are not going to go the reconciliation route, that 50-vote process that they could raise the debt ceiling, they're not going to use that right now. so mcconnell is trying to give them a roadmap out of this mess. again, not entirely clear that this is a viable roadmap at this moment, but it is a potential de-escalation in these tensions and a way out. >> leigh ann, we have another vote coming up on the senate floor in an hour, 3:00 eastern, this was prescheduled. what does this development mean for that vote, leigh ann? >> it's unclear, geoff. as jake mentioned, this is just an offer. this is a proposal by leader mcconnell to leader schumer and something that he's still going to give to schumer. we don't know if schumer is going to accept it. we don't know if this changes the calculation at all. but we do know that republicans were planning to block this vote that was expected to take place. now, geoff, we knew something was afoot when a last-minute scheduled democratic caucus meeting was supposed to take place behind closed doors at 1:00 today, and then about ten minutes before it was to start, it was canceled. and so that was an indication that there were perhaps some negotiations and conversations happening between the two leaders. now, this is something that has come to the brink. this is the most dire of a standoff that i've seen in a really long time up here on capitol hill. especially because, you know, leader mcconnell wasn't asking for anything as far as passing this debt limit. but he was trying to tell democrats how to do it. and that is pretty extraordinary within itself. and this is something schumer just would not accept. of course there are political consequences for schumer if they do it in this reconciliation process. they have to put a number on it, they would have to do a vote-a-rama and take lots of difficult votes especially for the members who are up for reelection in 2022. but i will say the talk about a carve-out for the filibuster relating to the debt limit has really shaken this movement in the sense that it has started these negotiations and these conversations happening between the leaders. and this filibuster talk was happening because i am told by my sources that the mood and the feeling among democrats was extreme frustration and extreme anger toward leader mcconnell, worse than people have seen in a really long time, and there is just such an anger toward him that people were willing to do this filibuster carve-out. so there is some movement. but one of my republican sources did say this is just an offer and they anticipate it not being a done deal just yet. it could still take quite some time. >> i can understand the democratic anger, because the message from mitch mcconnell to democrats was essentially overcome our obstruction in order to raise the debt limit on your own. yamiche, i understand you have new reporting from the white house about all this. what's the latest? >> i was just in a meeting where president biden was meeting with top white house officials and ceos from different corporations and they were essentially hammering home the point that the debt ceiling needed to be raised. treasury secretary janet yellen said the u.s. would need to try to avoid catastrophe, hardship, and pain, and that the only way for the u.s. to keep its reputation and the only way for the u.s. dollar to keep its gold standard among all of the other nations globally was to raise the debt ceiling. we also heard from the president who himself said this needed to happen, he was calling on congress. the new thing is you also heard from essentially nonpartisan ceos of banks saying, look, whatever way this guess done, it needs to get done. you heard from the ceo of citi as well as the ceo of jpmorgan, all saying the same thing, which is that this has to happen, that the u.s. economy could not take a debt ceiling being reached and that the u.s. had to pay its bills. they were also hammering home the idea that this would really and has already really shaken up the market. so we also heard from the president of nasdaq who is saying, look, just the talk of this, how close we're coming to the brink, the fact that we're in this stalemate over and over again, it's already having investors be very, very nervous, and that's already impacting the u.s. economy. so that was are actually a firm message from the white house but also from ceos saying this needed to happen. this news of a short term deal that could happen, it puts the president in a tough position because he of course is going to have to decide how he wants to play this, if he wants to back having the short term deal or if he maybe wants to move off the idea of seeing reconciliation as maybe being too problematic. one other thing, it was extraordinary, extraordinary to hear president biden talk about the possibility of backing a filibuster carve-out. it would have to be done by the senate and all 50 democrats. let's remember president biden has not budged from his position that the filibuster should not be messed with. that comes as james clyburn has been saying over and over for months that he wanted a filibuster carve-out for voting rights and civil rights. that was an extraordinary development last night. >> and yamiche, i want to come back to that, we have to fit in jake, who has a deadline and has to leave us soon. yamiche is reporting about the pressure from corporate leaders. it's interesting, aside from all the political posturing, at the end of the day senate republicans, mitch mcconnell, i'm sure they're getting calls from corporate donors who are saying, don't let this country default. >> yeah, they are. i think that obviously lawmakers are very sensitive to that. everybody understands a debt default would be a cataclysmic event, i don't think anybody wants to see it. but everybody was stuck in their own corners. joe manchin today suggested that he would not be open to a carve-out of the -- a filibuster carve-out for the debt limit. he said his position hadn't changed. so i don't really understand -- you know, i don't really understand where that would have gone. i think it was an option, but i think that option was taken off the table. that all said, it does seem like some of the pressure perhaps got to republicans. but again, we're in the middle of the story, geoff, and we don't know how this is going to turn out. as leigh ann suggested, we don't know if republicans are going to line up behind this offer, although i expect they will. we don't know if schumer is going to accept it, because again, we'll be back here in about 90 days, which is very difficult. >> and we should underline that, right now this is an offer, this is not an agreed-upon deal. jake sherman, we'll cut you loose, we appreciate you spending part of your afternoon with us. yamiche, let's talk more about this. the president, before this offer was made, yesterday the president talked about a carve-out to the filibuster as a means of raising the debt limit, he said that is a real possibility. to your point, that cat is already out of the bag. you could argue that not raising the debt limit is an existential issue, but much in the same way he's talked about voting rights, suppressing the vote being an existential issue. >> the question i would love to pose to the question is why is it a possibility to change the filibuster for the debt limit but not for voting rights, not for american democracy, given the fact that whip clyburn, who was crucial to electing president biden, he's been saying for months there needs to be some sort of a carve-out for civil rights, there needs to be free access to voting. we're seeing republicans all over this country move at such lightning speed to change the voting laws after 2020 and president trump's lies about the election and his loss in the election. so now in some ways it's really in the democrats' court to try to figure out how to change this here. it doesn't look like anything can be done on voting rights if you have the filibuster in fact. it's fascinating to hear president biden talking about changing the filibuster. he was not talking about changing the first for any one topic. the white house has been saying, the debt ceiling, this is about the u.s. economy, it's about a catastrophic impact on the u.s. economy and people's lives. but when i talk to other democrats who are frustrated with the president, they say, isn't voting also a critical issue, how are democrats going to win in 2022 or '24, my sources are telling me, if republicans are allowed to change the rules in voting and they don't face any sort of consequences? >> yamiche alcindor and leigh ann caldwell, appreciate both of you. coming up, breaking news, four injured in a school in texas. the search is on for the suspected gunman, an 18-year-old student. also coming up, mark zuckerberg strikes back. how 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comcast business powering possibilities. breaking news this afternoon as we're following another school shooting. another scene that's all too familiar in only one country in the world. a high school in arlington, texas. students rushing to escape the building. s.w.a.t. teams with guns pointed in every direction. it's not happening in europe, not in asia, south america, africa, australia. there's only one place we see scenes like this happen regularly, and that's the united states of america. four people have been wounded, including at least two of them shot. one police official says some already in surgery. and authorities say they do not believe this was a random act of violence. they say it appears to have started as a fight in a classroom. the suspected gunman, they say, is still on the loose. his name is timothy george simpkins. he's 18 years old. police say there were two officers already on campus and were on the scene just moments after the shooting. >> not knowing if your kid is safe or has been shot is the worst feeling that any family member, any friend can ever experience. >> as we mentioned, these buses, we've seen quite a few here trailing into the schools. >> yes. i've never seen so many buses in my life. my son sent me two videos of a fight going on in there. and another shot, gunshots going off. and to hear that and know that your kids are a part of that is terrible. >> we're glad that man's son is safe. we later saw a caravan of school buses. you see the video there, taking those evacuated students to be reunited with their parents. nbc's kerry sanders is following the latest developments for us. kerry, what more have you learned, who was wounded, what their conditions are, and the search for the suspected gunman? >> reporter: we do know that four people are injured or wounded. we're getting some information right now. this was from an off-camera breesing. our nbc producer al hinkle sharing with us that one victim who was injured was a teenage girl who suffered a small abrasion and she's already been discharged from the hospital in good condition. there is a 15-year-old, we assume at that age, a student, in critical condition. he's still in surgery. a 25-year-old who is in good condition. and an adult female who is pregnant, treated and released at the scene. so that's the information that we have just now from an off-camera briefing. as you noted, we saw the picture of the suspect they're looking for. we're now looking at about four hours or so since this incident, since this shooting happened on campus. the authorities say it happened on the second floor, the second story of the school there in a classroom where they believe the person you see on the screen here took a gun and began firing in response to a fight in the classroom. now, parents, understandably, have been freaking out because they got limited information from their children that there was a shooting on campus. the students have now been systematically taken off campus. one by one, they're being placed in school buses and going down to a nearby performing arts center where they're being checked in by the authorities. they're taking photographs, they're matching all the information they have on each person who is coming out of the school, and then they're getting an opportunity to reunite with their family members. as you can imagine, parents anxious throughout the day, after hearing about this. there is a long, long line of traffic right now just to get into the performing arts center. and it will probably be like that for several hours. we did have an opportunity to speak to one of the parents there who has three students at that school. listen to what he had to say. >> my daughter called me, she was crying. she gave me this address and i come to pick her up. >> reporter: and just about every parent dealing with the same anxiety. the authorities implemented a very quick plan when they had a school shooting on the campus there. it's a plan that they put into place, mandated by state law. and among the things that they have had to do by texas state law is make sure that every person who works on campus, not just the teachers but from the teachers to the administrators, all the way down to the custodial staff, everybody needed to be trained on what to do in the event of a school shooting. and early indications, it appears that folks who have been trained used that training today. again, a suspect remains at large. the authorities are on the hunt. geoff? >> nbc's kerry sanders, kerry, thank you for that live update there. joining us is retired atf special agent in charge and msnbc contributor jim kavanaugh, and also chief carmen best. chief best, give us a sense what have police are doing right now in the search for the gunman. how are they narrowing down where he might be, this 18-year-old suspect? >> right now they're probably trying to contact family members, friends of this young man, and found out, you know, where he might hang out at, where he might go, who he might be close to that he might be trying to travel there. certainly they're trying to reach out to him. the first thing i would do is contact his closest family members and see if they were in contact with him or could be in contact with him, give him a message, ask for his surrender, tell him he's going to be okay, that kind of a thing. >> and chief best, i'm sorry to cut you off, we'll go live to texas, we're getting an update from law enforcement officials. >> he is in the icu, out of surgery at this point in time, that's great news. we'll keep him in thoughts and prayers, and their families. we have an adult male, not in surgery, but in good condition. then we have a female that was also maybe grazed by a bullet or injured in some way, i don't have all the facts. that person is expected to be released hopefully today. so two will remain in the hospital, which continues to make hopefully a speedy recovery. again, we need to make sure that we pray for them and also pray for their families. the good news is our suspect is in custody. timothy simpkins is in custody. he is currently in the police station at odd cribs in arlington, texas. detectives are talking to him at this point in time. he will be charged with aggravated salt with a deadly weapon, three counts. good news, all our student have now been evacuated from the school. we had about 1,700 students here at timberview high school. we're glad they're safe, we're trying to unite them with their families and ensure they have victims' services. we know this is a tragedy, a traumatic incident for these high school kids, so we have a tremendous amount of fbi, arlington police department victim services that will hopefully talk with them and help them through this tragic incident. also i want you to know that we've increased security with additional police officers at all of our schools in arlington. now, all the schools have been locked out, not locked in, but locked out, meaning nobody can get into the schools in the arlington and mansfield independent school district. we are going to immediately release that and make sure that the parents can come in and they can be released. a lockout means that they are free to move within the school itself. so -- but nobody can enter those schools. this is going to be a long term, continuing investigation and processing of the crime scene. i will tell you again, i'm very proud to be part of this community. the grand prairie police department, mansfield police department, mansfield independent school district, and our federal partners. it will be a long term criminal investigation which the arlington police department will be the lead on the criminal side. the fbi is helping us here, and will process the crime scene. we have atf that we do have a weapon that was recovered. it was recovered in the streets in grand prairie, grand prairie police department recovered that. it is going to be turned over to atf to run ballistics. more to come on that. i also just want to talk a little bit about social media. we've been having a lot of social media comments about threats to our schools from young kids. i want the message to be out there that this is not something to continue. we will investigate you. the federal government will also -- our partners will be able to investigate you if you're not living in our city. and we will bring you to successful prosecution. so i'm just pleading with the community out there to try to stop any type of threats that are coming through social media. and i'm going to turn it over to the chief. >> thank you, kevin. i'm the chief of the grand prairie police. our teams have finished searching the school. we didn't find any additional threats. the suspect is in custody. a lot of our law enforcement resources were being diverted with inaccurate social media threats. i've got a call to action to parents. take a look at your kids' social media. if they're putting out threats on their schools, they're going to be arrested and they're going to be prosecuted. it's very important that you get involved with your kids' social media. during the entire onset of this event our teams were being distracted by accurate information at schools all over north texas. parents should look at the social media accounts of their kids. the last thing i'll say, the collaborative effort with the arlington police department, the grand prairie police department, the marshals' north texas fugitive task force, mansfield isd, worked very well together to get the suspect into custody very quickly. i can tell you there is no danger to the public. the public is safe and the suspect is in custody. as it relates to the weapon, our officers have transported a weapon they located in the street. we cannot confirm yet that it is the weapon. we believe it may be the weapon. it is being transported to our partners at the alcohol, tobacco and firearms team to do some analysis to determine if it's the right weapon. arlington police will run lead on any investigative efforts. grand prairie police department will be there to support them however they can. it was a handgun, .45 caliber weapon that was collected. >> chief of mansfield. i hope you'll see here is the response you'll get from texas agencies. we'll respond appropriately whenever the call comes out and we'll respond in unified responses. what that means, you just saw the mansfield police department is here standing alongside of the mansfield isd, with grand prairie and arlington, all of our federal partners are here. we brought this to a very quick resolve, and without incident. i think it should be noted that everybody responded well and they respond appropriately in this. and i want to thank each and every one of y'all for being here. i also want to thank our viewers for sending us those leads. and again, i would have to echo the same thing in our city. if there is those false allegations that are going on social media, we are not going to tie up resources with those. we are going to prosecute those. we can't tie up resources, especially at an event like this, to track down unsubstantiated leads. i would ask you to please continue to be involved in your children's lives, just like the chiefs are saying. be involved in what's going on in your schools. and know for sure that we are going to be standing here side by side with you. thank you all very much for your participation and thank all y'all for being here. >> donald williams, mansfield isd, associate superintendent for communications. i want to begin by stating it's been pretty impressive to see the tremendous work that has happened with the local law enforcement agencies. they worked extremely well to be able to bring this particular situation to its closure. the next things i want to mention as it relates to the reunification process for our students. we have 1,700 students that are heading over to the mansfield isd center for the performing arts. we're working through that process with our parents and our students right now. we have counseling support that's there. we also have our student nutrition team that's there as well. >> so we have been listening to a news briefing from law enforcement officials there in mansfield, texas. the headline from the assistant chief of the arlington police department is that the suspect in this case is now in custody, 18-year-old timothy -- the 18-year-old suspect in that case, and that two of the folks that were injured in the shooting remain in the hospital but a speedy recovery is expected. i want to bring back in chief carmen best and jim kavanaugh who were with us before this press briefing started. chief best, you were speaking when we had to go to these police briefing. we heard the assistant police chief there say that the processing of this crime scene will continue. give us a sense of how that will unfold. >> yes, certainly. first let me say i'm greatly relieved that the suspect in this case, the 18-year-old young man is in custody with no injury to him or anyone else, subsequent to the folks that he injured at the school. it could have turned out a lot of different ways. that's good to know. so the investigation will continue. there will be all sorts of evidence that will be collected, any sort of bodily fluids, pictures of the scene, video of when he came to school, trying to figure out all the circumstances involved as they determine what charges, what evidence to support the charges. there will still be a court case that follows. that's going to take all the normal processes that happen in these situations. witnesses identified, victims identified, evidence collected, fingerprints collected, any blood matter collected, any video they have will be collected. the video will be impounded. any evidence they get will also be utilized. there is a handgun, we're not sure at this point, it appears it's the one involved. they're doing testing to make sure that that's accurate as well. there will be a lot more followup. there will be questions about who knew what when, if this was, you know, random and unplanned or if someone knew more information that could be provided beforehand. so a lot of investigation to follow. >> and we also heard from the assistant police chief there that the suspect, timothy simpkins, is going to be charged with three counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. jim kavanaugh, you have kids all around the country going back to school in a pandemic, facing this epidemic of gun violence. in this instance, at this high school, we learned from law enforcement there were two officers embedded in the school, "embedded" is the word the law enforcement officers used. they were on the scene within moments, yet that wasn't enough. what more needs to be done? >> you're not going to beat the trigger finger of the assailant, no officer can, even if we have an officer standing next to every student, a person can pull a gun and pull the trigger in the blink of an eye, and in multiple rounds. what students need to know, if somebody thinks they're going to bring a gun to school, says they're going to bring a gun to school, you can see the bulge under their shirt, you need to alert the school resource officer or a teacher, that's a courageous act, because even though they may not have come to school intending to commit a mass shooting, they can get in a fight and pull out the gun and start shooting, which is what people can do on impulse, when they're all carrying guns and not trained, it becomes literally the wild west. there's a fight, you know, there's an argument, and then the person with the gun gets the gun. you see that in a lot of road rage cases as well. so students need to also understand those security drills. when you hear a shot, don't think it's something else, don't think it's a backfire, it's not a firecracker, it's a shot. implement your own strategic plan to run, hide, fight. implement the school's plan to go where you're supposed to, lock the doors, barricade, be quiet, go on social media, if you know where the shooter is, tell the police, call 911, text them, text the police, text your mom or dad if you know where the shooter is located. and don't open the door if someone says it's the police. you have to make sure it's the police. you would hear multiple people with multiple radios, and/or call 911 and verify that that's the police outside your classroom door, don't just open the door. report anything that's threatening, carrying weapons, you think they're planning something, and you can reduce these instances. guns, the chief laid out what the for instance process is going to be today. but, i mean, this case is a slam dunk. we could get the last lawyer out of law school an our ago when they would win this case. you know the guy's identity. he's captured, and you're probably going to -- if this gun turns out to be it, the ballistics are going to match. the victims are going to testify, he shot me, they were all unarmed. it's not going to be a difficult case. what we need to look behind is, how did he get the gun? and in a third of those cases, geoff, we found out that a lot of times the students would take it from the dresser drawer at home. and they just got a home from home and went to school and killed people. other times, it's a stolen gun. other times it's an illegally supplied gun. about a third of each. so they need to find out, did some adult criminally supply them that gun and if he did, that person needs to be charged federally. >> and chief best, on that point, this point of kids with guns, our team was struck by a recent study that looked at surveys of students between the years 1993 and 2017. and it found that about 6% of students recorded carrying a gun to school during the previous year. so 6%, that's a lot of guns in schools and probably more than a lot of people would expect. does that surprise you? i mean, how do you control for that? >> honestly, it doesn't surprise me, because we do have a proliferation of handguns throughout society at every level. students are able to access handguns. as was noted earlier, from a parent, from a friend, they're available in great quantity in our society. so the fact that 6% admit to carrying a handgun to school is not a surprise. and depending upon where you are in this country and the population, that number could be higher than that, to be honest. we need to work on every avenue, multiple against for limiting the proliferation of handguns in society and making sure we have common sense gun laws, that we close the loopholes. but even with that, there are still going to be those who are able to get their hands on a handgun or other type of firearm, weapons, and bring it to the school. so we do need to continue with the preparation, the practicing, the drills, and the evolution of being better able to handle and respond when these situations occur. >> carmen best and jim kavanaugh, appreciate your insights. still ahead, the spreading oil spill along california's coast. new information on a possible cause. and new questions about whether critical time to contain it was squandered. also coming up, mark zuckerberg on defense. how the facebook founder is reacting to a whistle-blower's testimony. ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ subway® has so much new it didn't fit in our last ad. like the new artisan italian and hearty multigrain bread. it's the eat fresh refresh™ at subway®. it's so much new there's no time for serena! wait, what?! sorry, we don't even have time to say they were created by world class bakers! oh, guess we did! seriously?! my bad. michael: more than 100 years ago. simi: two branches of our family split apart. david: but now, ancestry helped connect us to our ancestors and each other. 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emergency debt limit extension at a fixed dollar amount to cover current spending levels into december. a fixed dollar amount. the goal, apparently, is for mcconnell to force democrats to own a number to raise the debt ceiling beyond that. the bad news for the country is we could be right back at this same standoff in a couple of months. we are awaiting on a response from senate majority leader chuck schumer. as soon as we have that, we'll bring it to you. we're also following new details from the massive oil spill in southern california where a catastrophic disaster is happening. a full account of the economic damage and long term environmental impacts could be weeks if not months away. authorities have located the oil leak, it's a 13-inch split in a section of concrete encased pipe. they suspect the tear may have been hooked by an anchor spewing 144,000 gallons of heavy crude oil into the pacific for some 18 hours. and there are new questions today about what happened during that time, after reports that the oil company may have waited to shut down operations and alert authorities after they learned a breach had occurred. joining us now is chad nelson, ceo of the surf rider foundation. it's good to have you with us. one of the reasons i wanted to speak with you is i think surfers are one of the most honest, effective ambassadors for ocean protection. given the focus on the cleanup right now, know you've said once the oil is spilled, it's too late. how are folks there in huntington beach dealing with this? you've already suffered economically from the pandemic and now you have to deal with the oil spill. >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, it's amazing, the weather has been beautiful for the last few days. if you go down to the beach at huntington beach, there's not a soul on the beach, not a surfer in the water. normally at these times there would be thousands and thousands of people using that coastline. so it's having an ecological impact as you talked about, but also recreational and an economic impact as well. >> so lots of people in huntington beach, newport beach, laguna beach, they say after this oil spill, it's finally time to end offshore drilling. do you share that view? >> absolutely. i mean, we see this happen time and time again. drilling is spilling. and you hear about loose regulations, lack of notification. so it is really essential. if we want to stop seeing these kind of impacts, we ultimately need to stop drilling in our oceans and ultimately get off oil. >> the surf rider foundation, i know from experience, you routinely hold beach cleanups, i participated in a couple of them when you used to live out there. but you are encouraging people not to try to join the official cleanup or not try to save wildlife that they might encounter that have been affected by the oil. why is that? >> yeah, that's correct. i mean, there's an incredible outpouring of interest to get out and help out, which is wonderful, but we're reminding people that this oil is actually highly toxic. it includes benzene and hexane in the oil, so it could absorb into your skin. the folks out cleaning it up right now are formally trained and wearing white tyvex hazmat suits. i'm sure in the coming days we'll want people to be out there and try to find oil to report to the authorities. but right now you could do more harm than good. so at this time we're leaving that to the officials. >> when is the expectation for when you and your friends might be able to get back out in the water? >> it's really hard to tell. we've been kind of blessed by some pretty good weather over the last several days so we haven't seen a lot of new oil washing up. however up in santa barbara, when they had a spill in 2015, it took five or six days for all the oil to watch onto the beaches and it came as far south as 100 miles south of santa barbara. i think we'll have to wait to see what happens with the weather over the next three or four days. and that will be a good indication of what's to come. >> what had the water quality of the pacific been like before all this? i remember when i lived out there, word was if it rained on a tuesday, don't get in the water on a wednesday because everything that's on the streets is going to wash off into the ocean. is that still the case? i mean, what were things like before the oil spill? >> you know, generally in southern california these days, if it's dry and the weather is good, the water's pretty clean, so you can get out there and surf and swim without risk of getting sick. we do still have the problems, and we tell people not to surf or swim 72 hours after a rain because of that urban runoff. >> chad nelson, the surf rider foundation. appreciate your time, appreciate your willingness to join us this afternoon. >> thank you so much. >> sure thing. straight ahead, after a day of damaging testimony, facebook founder mark zuckerberg breaks his silence. how he's defending the company he created. omeone who 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"the argument that we deliberately push content that makes people angry for profit is illogical." haugen alleged facebook put profit over the public good and allowed misinformation and conspiracy theories to flourish, and she pointed to the very top of her former company. >> mark holds a very unique role in the tech industry in that he holds over 55% of all the voting shares for facebook. there are no similarly powerful companies that are as unilaterally controlled. and in the end, the buck stops with mark. there is no one currently holding mark accountable but himself. >> joining us now are gordian reporter, carol cadwalader and "new york times" technology reporter mark howland. how do you assess mark zuckerberg's statement? >> as frances haugen said, they're trapped in their own lies and deception and trapped in this cycle of denial and until they break out of this cycle of denial and acknowledge some of the many problems that are ongoing, then there's sort of no chance of fixing them. and, you know, what do we see? the first thing we saw is facebook's ceo went out on the news and accused her of stealing these documents and mark zuckerberg comes out and says, this is such a false narrative, how could anybody believe of this our company, i can't believe how it's been so mischaracterized. i don't think a crisis control professional would have advised that route. sorry, i'm going on now, but that, again, speaks to this power of this one man at this company, which is in itself a massive problem, as that clip showed. >> it's an interesting point you make, and mike, picking up carol's point, you had the facebook policy communications manager, andy stone, he tried to point to haugen's short time with the company and her specific role at facebook in an effort to undermine her testimony. but if anybody watched her testimony, she said that about herself, when she was asked specific questions about other parts of the company, she said i didn't work on that project, but here's what i know based on the documents and here's what i know having worked there. give us a sense of your view of things. her testimony and facebook's reaction to it. >> 100%. i think the reason he's been so effective as a witness, a credible witness, that i've seen is just, a, she's speaking the language of facebook, she knows how to sort of talk about how things were run internally, how people sort of think about things internally. a lot of the stuff she was talking about as far as incentives and growth go really jibe with the reporting i've done over the years in talking to folks who work there. again, she's not willing to go out of her depth on saying, look, i didn't study this area, this is not my area of expertise, this is what i was interested in. but just looked at the documents. they will sort of speak for themselves. i'm very curious, just as carol was mentioning, on how facebook is responding, specifically one of their people yesterday called the documents stolen, makes me wonder if they're going to go after the witness in a more aggressive way. it's unclear. they haven't said anything to me right now. but i'm very curious to be watching that. >> carol, another question about the substance of the testimony here, because mark zuckerberg is calling frances haugen's claim about the facebook algorithm illogical. let's listen to what haugen said yesterday. >> the dangers of engagement based ranking are that facebook knows that content that elicits an extreme reaction from you and more likely to get a click, a comment, a reshare. facebook's own research says they cannot adequately identify dangerous content. as a result, those dangerous algorithms that they admit are picking up the extreme sentiments, the division, they can't protect us from the harms that they know exist in their own system. >> so carol, what about that? facebook admits that they rely heavily on ai, artificial intelligence. they admit to the challenges posed by the algorithm. is regulation the answer here? >> i mean, i think what's absolutely brilliant about what she did yesterday is that she totally cut through the free speech debate. facebook is uncomfortable occupying any of the debate about free speech, they just go, oh, there's nothing we can do about this stuff, we're not going to censor what's going on on our platform. you do get into a complicated argument then. the algorithms, this is something the company controls. in the u.s. election, we saw this controlled experiment. we saw what happened when facebook changed the algorithm before the election to downgrade this virality of this toxic content and we saw what happened when it was switched back on. i think it's pretty easy to see, like for the sake of sort of public discourse, which was healthier. so yes, i do think it was a stroke of brilliance that she's now -- finally we've got the focus on something other than free speech. >> carole cadwalader and mike isaac, appreciate both of you. that will do it for this hour of "msnbc reports." my colleague hallie jackson picks up the coverage, next. eope living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles, and confusion, as these may be life threatening... ...or uncontrollable muscle movements, as these may be permanent. these are not all the serious side effects. now i'm back where i belong. ask your doctor about latuda and pay as little as $0 for your first prescription. we gave new zzzquil pure zzzs restorative herbal sleep and pay as little as $0 to people who were tired of being tired. i've never slept like this before. i've never woken up like this before. crafted with clinically studied plant-based ingredients that work naturally with your body. for restorative sleep like never before. as we come on the air this afternoon, breaking news on a potential, potential off-ramp to this debt ceiling showdown. nbc news confirming mitch mcconnell now offering chuck schumer maybe a path forward to extend the debt limit into december. we're waiting to see if democrats will take that offer. we're also waiting to see if a planned test vote on the debt ceiling will take place as planned for this hour. that's what you're looking at live on the left side of your screen. we're on the hill, we're at the white house, we're also following breaking news from arlington, texas, where police just announced they've arrested the suspect

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