to torpedo it with a filibuster just 12 days out from when the u.s. is expected to default on its loans. the crucial question this morning, what are senate democrats going to do about it? right now they're huddling behind closed doors with senior white house officials. this hour we're tracking a change that could help thousands of americans get out from under crushing student loans. how teachers, social workers, and members of the armed services could get their debts cleared. and we're also dig spoog a brand new report that shows just how effective vaccines are at preventing covid deaths. in fact, listen to this. vaccines prevented 39,000 deaths among medicare recipients in just the first five months of this year. the report coming as we learn two-thirds of americans are now fully vaccinated. we'll get to that in a moment. we're going to start this hour with the high stakes standoff over the debt ceiling. our correspondent is with us. our white house correspondent monica alba at her post. and our msnbc senior business correspondent stephanie ruhle also joining me on this wednesday. let's start with allie. we just learned white house officials met once again with senate democrats this morning, and the meeting coming as the senate is set to hold another vote on the debt ceiling this afternoon. all signs seem to say that vote is going to fail. what happens after that? >> that really is the question here on capitol hill. that meeting as it was breaking up, we heard from senators in there who said the debt ceiling came up but the bulk of the conversation was about the build back better agenda and the ongoing negotiations about reconciliation and the larger social infrastructure package. but what we are starting to see emerge is two sides that remain entrenched. republicans saying they're not negotiating for anything. they're just saying democrats need to do this alone. democrats on the other hand saying they're not going to do this through the reckon sill yigs mechanism. instead there's a discussion because as you mentioned this vote today is also likely to fail again. there's now discussion among democratic senators about a potential nuclear option. it allows them to go forward with a narrow 51 majority. they need all 50 democrats on board. one of the key senators is senator joe mench who said he's reticent to touch the filibuster. we have not heard from him about this instance, but i'm going to ask him when he appears in a few minutes the larger thing here, though, craig, is there's been a lot of conversation about filibuster reform before. we've heard it from democrats on voting rights, gun violence prevention and other policy priorities. the question will be if democrats decide to move forward in this way, activists and advocates will start to question them. why is it okay to use this on the debt ceiling but not on the other priorities that democrats have. we're not there yet. right now this is just in discussion, but it's the key thing we're keeping our ear to the ground for. you need all 50 democratic senators on board to do it. at the same time, there's a hope from some democrats they can get republicans out of the way. the thing that's consistent between both sides is they each want the other party out of their way but done in a specific america fichl that happens to be the mechanism the other party doesn't want to use. >> monica, president biden, he has lots of fires that are raging on capitol hill right now. there's the infrastructure bill. there's the safety net bill that's going to be considerably smaller than the original price tag and now the debt ceiling fight taking up a lot of oxygen. what kind of pressure is the president under? and what is he saying about the filibuster? >> he is ramping up pressure on republicans, specifically by talking about the real world ramifications, but to allie's point of what she was talking about in washington parlance, nuclear option, filibuster, what does that mean? basically changing the rules in order to potentially make this happen. the president offered a lot of credence and credibility to that possibility last night when he was asked about this. it gives it a lot of momentum. essentially that's a bit of a green light for democrats to continue exploring that possibility, though. we know that's something right now they aren't committing to. it's under discussion. take a listen to exactly how he responded to this question and whether he would support it. >> are democrats considering using a nuclear option to raise the debt digit using a carveout to raise the debt limit? >> i think that's a possibility. i'll be on the phone until this is finished and maybe meeting in person. >> reporter: the president said he wants to be in touch with mitch mcconnell. it's unclear if they've spoken today or if the call will take place later this afternoon. but democrats know that that conversation may not necessarily move the needle and that's why they need to go ahead with their own options and path forward given they're only 12 days to figure out this issue of raising the debt ceiling. that's why the president is inviting all the bank ceos and business leaders to the white house for a meeting that will take place in person and virtually to talk about what happens if the u.s. for the first time ever defaults on its debt. this is the president yesterday. you had him in michigan talking about this through the lens of his infrastructure agenda and what he wants to accomplish. today he's going to try to make it real in terms of the people who would suffer if this did take place. we're talking about social security, military salaries being frozen potentially. there are so many different things the president is going to want to highlight in this meeting to, again, try to point the finger at republicans and say if you're not going to do anything on this then yes, in their view, in the white house view, get out of the way. we will try to do our own thing which as of last night it seems he has potentially blessed. but then it will be a huge problem for the president to try to justify why he hasn't supported democrats going with the nuclear option on things like voting rights and gun reform legislation which his party has pressured him to do over this summer. >> what biden is doing in bringing the business leaders in to talk about the debt ceiling is saying hey, republicans, i'm bringing in your daddies. right? those gop lawmakers look at these business leaders. these are their heros. this is who they want to get the big donor checks from. if the united states defaults, that doesn't mean all the federal workers aren't going to get paid. that impacts our credit rating in all the ways we borrow that will get more expensive. the ceo of jpmorgan is the biggest lender in the country. he said this will be catastrophic. when they come out of the meeting, most likely they're going to say quit playing politics. this is going to hurt all of us. that's biden's plan. he also wants to say to the business leaders, let me talk to you about my infrastructure plan. critics like to say this is a social safety net that's going to keep people from working. they're going to be living off the government. it's not. this real plan behind the bill is to create real economic empowerment, whether it's through child care so people can go to work or free community college so they can pursue better careers on their own. all of this is tied to natural economic growth, and he wants to make that case to business leaders so they can get on board as well. >> help folks understand who are watching or listening on the radio, hypothetically for the first time in our country's history if we do default. what happens? people who are watching may not understand what that could mean for them. help us understand that. >> well, you know, immediately devastating for your 401 k. we heard that this morning. i had the sec chair on my show. your credit cards, car loans, mortgages, that's going to get more expensive. you think about the united states. right? our credit rating. we're like the strongest foundation of the house. if suddenly the foundation is shaky and we're saying the u.s., the strongest there is, we might not pay our bills, that changes who we are on the world stage, and when we want to come out and borrow again, people are like you know what? i'm going to need more collateral. you're not such a good borrower. >> here's the thing. it seems as if we do this. we play this game with our debt ceiling -- >> in embarrassment. >> yes. every year, maybe every year and a half. there's got to be a better way than this. allie is not with me right now, but monica, are you there? monica alba? >> i'm here. >> allie is back. >> allie, we've talked about how tricky this situation is for democrats. what about the republicans? we know where the leader stands, mitch mcconnell, but what about senators in the past who have shown a willingness to break with the party on certain big issues, like romney or murkowski? >> reporter: in this instance, on this fight, they're not on board to break with their party. and that's what's important here. if they were, you would need 10 republican senators to join with all 50 democrats to raise the debt ceil. the reality where it stands right now is the 10 senators don't exist, and in the inverse, when democrats say they want to do this by a simple majority vote, they've asked unanimous consent for that. that means they need all 100 senators to agree. and we heard from a republican senator this morning that there are republican senators who would object to the way forward the way democrats want to do it. again, this all comes back to the mechanism which my colleague asked about yesterday. listen to what mcconnell told him. >> how is that easier than not filibustering and passing it? >> that would require getting consent from every single republican to lower the threshold to 51. i can't imagine that would happen. >> and again, that has been the consistent problem here. the thing that you have to think about c though, with republicans, and the reason we're waiting here at these empty microphones for senator joe manchin is you need to find a way forward, and you have to do it somewhat quickly because the debt ceiling limit is not one of those you can just play around with. this is a cemented deadline that matters and congress can't just push off. it's either going to be that republicans who have not negotiated at all on this. they've simply set their line and said we don't want anything. we just want democrats to do it and they really want democrats to do it through reconciliation, and democrats said that's a nonstarter. now we're starting to see different methods form where they could find a way to go it alone. >> and a reminder for folks who may wonder why we hear allie but no longer see her, that camera is now trained on those microphones outside senator joe manchin's office because we expect the senator is going to talk and take some questions. when that happens, we'll take you back there. and then we'll see allie again as well. but for now, allie, thank you. stephanie ruhle, thank you. monica alba at the white house, a big thanks to you as well. a lot more to get to on this wednesday including thousands of migrants making that dangerous trip right now from colombia to our border. also big tech under pressure. new calls for congress to crack down on social media platforms in the wake of that bomb shell testimony from the facebook whistleblower roughly at this time yesterday. mark zuckerberg's overnight response. first up, folks with student loans listen up. pay attention. the biden administration moving to relax the rules for a student loan forgiveness program that could help more than a half million people. we're going to have details on that next. details on that next. is struggling to manage your type 2 diabetes knocking you out of your zone? 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[ tires screech ] this is it. this is it. oh my god. target enough people. then the people... become the weapon. ♪ ♪ what is it? you don't know what this is. ♪ ♪ who is he? ♪ ♪ in business, setbacks change everything. so get comcast business internet and add securityedge. it helps keep your network safe by scanning for threats every 10 minutes. and unlike some cybersecurity options, this helps protect every connected device. yours, your employees' and even your customers'. so you can stay ahead. get started with a great offer and ask how you can add comcast business securityedge. plus for a limited time, ask how to get a $500 prepaid card when you upgrade. call today. woman: my reputation was trashed online. i felt completely helpless. my entire career and business were in jeopardy. i called reputation defender. vo: take control of your online reputation. get your free reputation report card at reputationdefender.com. find out your online reputation today and let the experts help you repair it. woman: they were able to restore my good name. vo: visit reputationdefender.com or call 1-877-866-8555. some breaking news right now. in texas this is the scene above timberview high school. this is arlington, texas. timber view high school is currently on lockdown. we're told the police department are on the scene investigating what appears to be an active shooter situation. we do not have a lot of details right now. but we can tell you that police are on the scene at timber view high school because there is an active shooter. students, staff, locked in class rooms. offices as well. no visitors being permitted at this time. right now you can see fire trucks, some other emergency vehicles outside this massive high school there in arlington, texas. we're working to gather more information as information becomes available. we will, of course, pass it along to you. before we get off the shot here, really quickly, let's try and describe a little bit more of what we're seeing for folks maybe listening on the radio. you see presumably parents trying to get closer to the school to find out a little bit more information. you can also see police appear to have set up a perimeter around this high school as well. we do not have control of the camera here. but the camera showing a full parking lot as well as again more fire trucks and emergency vehicles as well. timber view high school. arlington, texas on lockdown. active shooter. we are working feverishly to try to get more information. meanwhile, teachers, social workers, military memberings, other public servants listen up. the biden administration says it is making a major change to a program that could wipe out your student loan debt. you have to meet some requirements but they hope the changes will make it easier to navigate the program. kelly o'donnell is following this story from the white house. so kelly, how does it work? and to whom does it apply? >> well, this is an opportunity that the department of education is taking to look at a program they have that they felt was being underutilized and to try to make changes and to try to eliminate some of the bureaucracy and some of the things they've learned have been impediments to people getting this benefit. and it is the public service loan forgiveness program. and so if you work in public service for a period of ten years, so those job descriptions you just described, you could be eligible to have loan forgiveness for your student debt, and what they look at are payments you've already made. your qualifications based on the kind of job that you hold, and there's a process, of course, for applying to this. and what they had found is that there were things like people who had made payments at a different time and under different employment. those payments weren't counting. trying to streamline that to get people to a point where if you give back to your community by working in these areas of job description that are considered public service, is there a way for the federal government to forgive student loan debt? so it's a change to an existing program trying to make greater use of it. and they estimate that as many as 550,000 people could be eligible. so if that's the kind of work you do, if you have that kind of debt, worth checking into this and applying and getting through all the particulars. in our conversation, i'm sure we're leaving out important steps people would need to meet, but the theme is there's a lot of pressure politically to try to forgive student loans in a broad way. that has not been something the administration has gotten behind. they've talked about a $10,000 limit. this is a specific program that already exists for people who take on the debt to get their education, and then give back into their communities by the jobs they do. particularly as we've seen, over the covid period where people in law enforcement, medical professionals have been on the frontline. this is a way to try to streamline a benefit they may be able to take advantage of. >> is there a website or do we know -- >> there is a website. and the formal name of the program is public service loan forgiveness. the department of education website can get them to the right place for this. and there's some new deadlines they're putting in place and that kind of thing. it could be a way for people to get some help from their debt as a function of giving back, having worked ten years in public service would be one of the qualifiers. >> all right. head to the department of education website if you'd like to get more information. up next, a power of vaccines. some big new data from the department of health and human services. covid vaccinations prevented more than 10 0,000 hospitalizations and saved the lives of 39,000 seniors between january and may of 2021. at the same time, we've crossed another troubling new milestone. "the washington post" points out that covid cases among children topped americans 18 and up in august for the first time. what you need to know at this point in the pandemic, next. point in the pandemic, next. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ did you know that your clothes can actually attract pet hair? with bounce pet hair & lint guard, to unveil them to the world. your clothes can repel pet hair. look how the shirt on the left attracts pet hair like a magnet! pet hair is no match for bounce. with bounce, you can love your pets, and lint roll less. - [announcer] at southern new hampshire university, we never stop celebrating our students. from day one to graduation to your dream job, that's why we're keeping your tuition low for the 10th year in a row. - [student] the affordability and the quality of education, it can be enough to change your life. - [announcer] as a nonprofit university, we believe in making college more affordable for everyone. - southern new hampshire university, it was just amazing experience. - [announcer] find your degree at snhu.edu. ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ more than 68 -- 67% of american adults are fully vaccinated. in the last month more than 18 million shots have gone into the arms of americans as we have fascinating new data showing in many parts just how many lives vaccinations may have saved. according to hhs, vaccinations reduced 265,000 infections. 107,000 hospitalizations and 39,000 deaths among med dare recipients between january and may of this year. ron allen is outside a health center in harlem where people are getting vaccines. i want to bring in a doctor. let me start with you, the report from hhs. vaccinations linked to a drop of hundreds of thousands of cases in hospitalizations. how do we see that example into more shots in arms? >> uh-oh. we appear to be having -- you know what? you're on mute. >> so this is just more proof that vaccines save lives. we've been able to see by walking through a hospital how things change when that vaccine became available in terms for example of nursing home cases, deaths, they fell. so i think this provides a lot more information just to be able to give people to say yes, vaccines save lives and change the trajectory of the pandemic. but unfortunately, some people aren't receptive to that type of data, but it's becoming something that takes a lot of effort to evade anymore. >> ron, a lot of talk about new york city's vaccine mandates. the city now says that more than 96% of teachers are vaccinated. now the governor of new york said tuesday she's considering more mandates. what are you hearing from people there about that part of the story? >> well, the bottom line is that these mandates are forcing people to get vaccinated and the rates are going up. in the case of teachers when the deadline came, the numbers of teachers getting vaccinated and educators increased significantly. it was the same thing in the health care sector. the governor is now trying to increase the categories of workers who are required to get vaccinated in health care. for example, now it will become health care workers who work in mental health facilities, for example. and there's a lot of pressure on local leaders here like the mayor to expand the mandate to include new york police, firefighters, corrections officers. those categories, especially first responders often face to face with the public. in the case of the nypd, that's been a contentious issue. there's been a lot of pushback from the police. at one point their vaccination rate was below 50%. it's moved up over 60. the mayor was asked today in a briefing when he was going to mandate that for the cops. here's what he had to say about that. >> everything is about doing things in a particular manner if you want to get the best outcomes. so that's what we're examine right now. again, we're ready to say it. when we believe we have something, whatever the approach, we will. but it's just not as simple as, again, push a button and everything moves the way you want. we've got to set up any approach we take, meticulously. >> that's because there's a lot of pubback from the police unions. in new york vaccinations are required to get into restaurants, public spaces, museums, a lot of buildings. so on and so forth. we know out in los angeles the city council is looking at a similar pressure that would require sweeping changes to how vaccination mandates are enforced in terms of requiring people who want to go into restaurants, gyms, bars, coliseum, the other sports venues as is the case in new york to be vaccinated. there's that in new york, california. in the middle of country, there's a lot of resistance and pushbacks to even mask mandates. so the country is moving on these different tracks as it has been throughout the pandemic. again, the bottom line in places like new york, the mandates are pushing the vaccination rates up. and that's what people want for the most part in these communities. >> all right. clearly on a busy road there. thank you, doctor. we have to get back to capitol hill now. senator manchin at the microphones. let's listen in. >> it's important to understand we need to do tax reform. i think the corporations pay their fair share and make sure we're caring for children. children at the beginning of life to help them and also our seniors at the end of life, to give them the dignity and the quality of life of living in your home if you desire to do that. these are all things we can set priorities. this is not a heavy lift. i think also lowering the price of drugs. it makes no sense at all that we don't go out and negotiate. the da does a tremendous job. medicaid does it. why doesn't medicare? these are things we can agree on easily. and also i've been very clear when it comes to who we are as a society and a nation. and why we are still the hope of the world. i don't believe that we should turn our society into an entitlement society. i think we should be a compassionate, rewarding society. i think that fairs best for all of us. compassion means taking care of those who can't take care of themselves. whether they're young, have some type of a challenge in life, whether it be mental or physical. those are responsibilities that we have. and we can all meet those responsibilities. and i feel very strongly about that. and we will continue -- this is going to take time to get this done. getting this done quickly is not going to benefit anybody. let's make sure we do it and do it right. on the default that -- the crisis that we have time zones, timetable for, we are not going to default as a country. we will not default. that's the responsibility we have. as senators and congressmen, 535 of us are responsible to protect this great country. and equal branch of government. i truly implore both leaders, my caucus leader and the majority leader is chuck schumer. and the basically the minority leader is mitch mcconnell. i implore them to engage, start working, work this out. this should not be a crisis. i've been very, very clear where i stand, where i stand on the filibuster. i don't have to repeat that. i think i've been very clear. nothing changes. the bottom line is we have a responsibility to be the adults. our leadership has the responsibility to lead. and that's what i'm asking, imploring them to do. we should not have these artificial crises. we are not going to default on our debt. we are still basically the currency of the world and will remain that. anybody who thinks different is basically speculating for the sake of theatrics. let's get on with the business of this country and making sure the people have the opportunities. get through this covid crisis that we have right now, it plays. accept the science and get vaccinated, please. help us move forward. this is what we're asking everybody to do. so the only thing i can say at this time to leader schumer and to minority leader mcconnell is please, lead. lead. work together. this is a democracy. democracy only works when all sides work for the same common goal, and that is to keep the united states of america united. thank you all. >> debt ceiling for reconciliation? -- >> all right. there you have it. west virginia senator joe manchin. not taking any questions. but speaking before reporters there, talking about the debt ceiling. he said that nothing has changed regarding his position on the filibuster. there had been some speculation there might be a carveout to allow democrats to do it on their own with a simple majority. you also heard at the beginning they were talking about rolling back the tax cuts from 2017. i want to get a little bit more insight and perspective. some analysis here. allie was just there. shouting questions at senator manchin as he walked away. and i believe we have allie back with us there on capitol hill. a little disappointed he didn't take any questions, but we did hear from senator manchin. what do you make of what we just heard? >> reporter: well, he said that he didn't think that he would speak again after this, but there are certainly still questions here that need to be answered. especially when you think about what he said on the debt ceiling. he implored his colleagues both on the republican and democratic side to move forward on this, but there has been no comedy on this issue in terms of the fact that both mcconnell and schumer have said they're not going to do what the other wants them to do effectively. so certainly still questions on that. and that's one of the things that i shouted after him as he left. whether or not he was advocating for democrats to go forward on the debt ceiling through the reconciliation process. that's a mechanism that schumer and other top democrats have said is a nonstarter for them, but that is the mechanism that mcconnell has wanted them to use on this overall. there was some clarity, and this is a number we have been reporting and hearing from our sources over the course of the last few weeks on this. there was clarity from him on his number for the larger social infrastructure package which is 1.5 trillion that is far lower than progressives have wanted to go on this. i imagine in the coming hours, frankly, we could hear from senator bernie sanders saying that for him, he wanted this to be 6 trillion, so laying the mile marker where it is is not where he wants to be. it flies in the face of what biden has been telling democrats. he can get manchin and cinema to to 1.9 to 2.2 trillion range. clearly 1.5 is -- although he said this will provide answers, there's more questions here. >> and again, to be clear that 1.5 trillion or 2 .2 trillion, this is over ten years. correct? >> yes. yes. over ten years. but one of the ways they could try to keep that cost down, and this was in conversation were progressives. is sunsetting some of those clauses. the thing is, we don't know the policy priorities for manchin and cinema that must be in or must be out to get them to this $1.5 trillion price tag. it's kind of hard to draw a map to where to go if you don't know where you're trying to get. >> let me ask you while i have you quickly here. senator manchin comes out. occasionally you'll see him take questions from reporters. senator sinema, what's her deal? there's rarely any sort of public statement made about where she stands or doesn't stand on spending or to your point priorities. why is that? >> i think that's the question frankly all of washington is trying to grapple with right now. because my colleagues here have had multiple instances where they've gathered with her at elevators and askeder a where she is at issues and she said i'm physically at the elevator. there's not much engagement with her and reporters. that is every lawmaker's decision, whether or not they like to engage with us on the issues. when you're at the center of negotiations and hundreds of lawmakers are waiting to hear where you stand on these issues, it behooves you to communicate them publicly. there are colleagues who don't know where she stands on this. it adds to the confusion and mystery of the process. >> allie following that breaking news. thank you. let's get back to the other breaking news in texas. an update now on the school shooting at timberview high school, arlington, texas. the arlington police department tweeting a few moments ago they are doing a, quote, methodical search and working closely with another police department, the mansfield police department and other agencies. they're going to be announcing a parent staging location soon, and they're going to send out that information shortly. as you can see here, emergency vehicles still surrounding the perimeter of timberview high school. this is a massive high school in arlington, texas. class rooms on lockdown. offices on lockdown. no one being allowed to enter or leave the school. our local nbc dallas fort worth affiliate, kxas reporting multiple people have been shot. i want to bring in jim kavanaugh, a retired atf special agent in charge, former hostage negotiator for the atf. he's also an msnbc terrorism analyst. and jim, here we go again. having a conversation that we've had far too many times. another school shooting at a high school in the united states of america. let's start with this tweet that just put out. the methodical search of the high school. what does that look like, jim? what are they doing? do they go classroom to classroom to make sure the shooter is not in there holding hostages? >> yes. they move fast in there. the plan is always to locate the shooter or shooters, isolate them, and evacuate behind them. locate, isolate, evacuate. the danger is they haven't located them yet. you may have students here on their phones that can even watch media and contact the outside world, and the issue here is make sure you're barricaded, you're locked in, and you do not open the door unless you're absolutely sure that it is the police. don't open the door because someone says it's the police. this is critical if you have a shooter loose in there and squad hasn't located them. these things can get over quickly, but stay barricaded until you verify you're opening only for the police. you'll know. you'll hear the radios. if there's any doubt, call 9-1-1 and ask. the critical thing now is locating the shooter to stop the shoot snchlgt. >> jim, we're going to go to our local affiliate for a moment and listen to some parents of students who are inside that high school. let's just listen in for a few moments. >> he said apparently what happened to him is in english class there's a -- a fight broke out. a teacher walked in and tried to get between it. he got shot and then shots started ring. that's all we know. this is second-hand that i'm hearing from my kids. >> what year is your son? >> i got one that's a junior, 16, and the other one is 14 and is a freshman. >> they're both in there? >> one is is here. >> reporter: you've been texting back and forth with him? >> yes, sir. >> reporter: have you got any video yet? >> i did -- he took a picture. he's supposed to be sending me two different videos that show the school i guess either the fight that was going on and now they have cell phones. i don't know what was actually caught on camera. i'm still waiting for him to send it. >> reporter: if you get it, can you show it to me? >> yes. >> are you hot? >> reporter: yes. >> are you sending this in now? >> reporter: yes, sir. >> you were listening to a parent there. a student at the high school in arlington, texas. again, students, staff locked in classrooms. this is -- i think we may be -- can we go back, guys in the control room? let's listen back in. >> i haven't got a response from him in the last five minutes, but they're telling us where to go to pick them up. but i haven't seen any buses. i wonder, like, how they're going to get our kids there. i kind of want to wait until my son tells me they're escorting him out. they're still telling me the shooter is inside. i want to wait until i get a text from him before i leave. >> reporter: what's your name? >> andrea redic. >> reporter: what year is your student? >> he was supposed to be a student at lakeridge but came here because of the football team. >> reporter: good luck. and you've been getting correspondence with him? >> i have. he doesn't know much. he said he heard a shooting. he doesn't know much himself because he's inside of the class. but we did hear that the student and a teacher did get shot. i'm telling him to make sure he listens and follows the instructions to get escorted out. >> reporter: thank you very much. >> you can see the gunshots here. >> oh, my god. oh, my god. >> we're going to get -- we're not going to show that. we haven't seen the video. we don't know what's on that phone, but you just heard from two parents there. the second parent, the mother saying that her child told her, again, not a confirmed report, but a parent -- we just heard the parents say that her student, her child said that a student and a teacher had been shot. we just got in a statement from the mansfield independent school district. and that's -- that is where timberview high school is, part of the mansfield school district. i'll read it as i'm reading it. the update is that the building has been cleared. and we are currently solidifying our reunification process so that parents and guardians can reunite with their students. thank you. and they go onto say there are a number of law enforcement agencies that are investigating an active shooter situation at timberview high school. jim kavanaugh is still with me. jim, and again, i assume that you can see the images here of the fire trucks and emergency vehicles that are outside this massive high school in arlington, texas. but it sounds like they're starting the reunification process. if they're doing that, presumably the shooter has been identified or is that a stretch? >> the building being cleared means the shooter is in custody, dead, or isn't in the building. they would reunite the students with the children even if they were evacuated behind the shooter. in other words, if they could isolate him in an area, evacuate everybody behind and reunite the parents. we still don't have the answers. if the witnesses we heard heard on nbc dallas, if that information holds true, and as you said, it is not verified. if it holds true, it may be just a little slight piece, very minor piece of the news in a tragic situation that it's not a planned massacre. so what we may have is a fight broke out, a teacher steps in to break it up. somebody pulls out a handgun and starts shooting. now, that's a bad situation, but it's not a situation where someone or multiple people are coming in with rifles in a planned attack that can kill really a lot of people. if this is true, the student might have ran and hid, could be hiding in a room. could have already been apprehended. i used to be the assistant special agent in charge of dallas. both the pds are very good. you can see the response, how quickly they're there. if everybody holds tight and listens, squad commanders will let everybody know what to do. >> the mayor of arlington saying that at least two people are hurt. that's coming from the mayor of arlington, jim ross. arlington police confirming multiple victims in the shooting. also telling folks to go -- telling parents to go to the student nutrition center at 151 mansfield web road. that information coming out just a few moments ago. also coming out a few moments ago, jim, the atf dallas is involved in this investigation. again, that was -- those are your people. the atf's involvement, what does that tell us? >> atf is always involved when there's guns and violent crime. they're going to be there and there will be fbi agents and other agencies there. texas rangers, the texas troopers, the department of public safety. everybody shows in. they'll want to track down any conspirators and see what charges need to be levied. we don't know if this information is going to hold. there's a lot of investigation. these pd's, mansfield and articling son have great detective bureaus. what they need is the layering on of the help from the state and the feds to make sure there's no loose ends. everything gets done quickly. we don't -- when you have more agents than detectives, you get things done quickly. that keeps the community safer. it's an all hands on deck when these things happen. we see it all the time on the news. we see the troopers and atf and local officers all -- you know, last night yesterday afternoon in nashville, we had an atf agent shot in the head in an undercover operation in serious condition in vanderbilt hospital. the assailant was killed. i mean, we have atf agents shot in memphis. they're out in the streets. one shot in chicago this year. they're out in the streets trying to do the work. police officers getting shot. dea agent killed in tucson this week. others wounded. law enforcement is always out there trying to stop the violence. >> we want to update really quickly here, the reunification spot. it is apparently changing. if you know someone in the area. timberview parents are being told to reunite at the center for performing arts 1110 west debbie. it's the center for performing arts. if you have a student or loved one there at timberview high school. let us now, kxas is our affiliate there. let's listen in just a bit to their coverage for a few moments. >> the highway, the state trooper is also here. so we have, like, a lot of units of police here. >> reporter: and tell us a little bit more. you said you have seen -- you've also encountered some parents who have stopped and trying to get information, get to the school. tell us more about that. >> yeah. we saw a hispanic mother walking by here and she asked us because she saw the mic up came by, and we said do you know something, and she said we're getting information like you and she was running all of the way there with the cops and saying, i listened to her saying "where is my kid." the police told her to cross to the other side. she is on the bridge with a phone in her hand trying to call her daughter. and she is saying she didn't answer me, she didn't answer me. it is a tough situation with the publics. more cops, they're getting in the school. this is still active. and when we get more information we'll give it to you. >> it is just terrifying. the information is coming in from different sources. in case you see that mom again we're hearing about a parent reunification point, the center for performing arts, 1110 west devy. i cannot imagine the fear and the worry of that mom and so many others right now as that situation continues to develop. >> police are still searching the building, there is a lot of unknowns at this point. we know the students are on lock down and this is a very scary situation for everyone involved, especially for those parents that don't know what to expect and they have to wait in this area. everyone will be there, they have to wait to get information, so that is a very harrowing situation for parents who are dealing with this. >> and she, of course, trying to call her daughter. of course there are many students in there who have phones, no doubt calling their parents, calling their loved ones to tell them i'm in this building. they are still inside of this campus right now. the school is still on lock down. i guess the start of about 9:30 or so this morning, about an hour and a half into this, this is a school that remains on lock down. no one is remaining on that campus. what we're hearing from law enforcement and of course the direct is that students and staff are locked into offices and classrooms as police officers go do that methodical search. >> federal agents are there at the scene as well. they are getting help and that would be a traditional response to a situation like this, a shooting at a school. there are lots of law enforcement at the scene just trying to assess exactly what is going on. for us we may not get a lot of detailed information until police have a handle on what is going on inside. we do know that there were, at least two people injured. we do not know the extent of the injuries, but those people were attacken to hospitals. we had that confirmed by arlington mayor jim ross. they are prepared for more just in case you see there is several ambulances staged in the parking lot here with paramedics. lots of crew there just to make sure that no one is hurt. >> yeah, exactly. in that conversation he spoke about the victims, but he didn't know the severity of the injuries to the individuals. we're waiting for that information, too. the first, you know, the first point of information is the loved ones of these victims. they are waiting because there are multiple people shot. we don't know what that word means, multiple. >> we have been listening to kxas, our affiliate there in arlington, texas. the high school on lock down, students locked in classrooms. one parent telling a reporter there that her child texted her that a student and a teacher had been shot. the mayor of arlington smoke a short time ago and this is what the mayor had to say about it. >> i know that we have at least two people injured. i don't know the severity or who was injured. i know police are on scene. they have a command post set up at a high school and that they are actively looking to a pry he needs the suspect of this suspect. i know in these situations our biggest concern is making sure that everyone in that school is as safe as we can make them. i know the police department were there. they responded, they set up a command most and they're suring that everyone in there is safe and getting the kids out there as soon as we possibly can. we have the command post there to ensure the safety of that community and get that person apprehended. >> that was the mayor of arlington a short time ago. jim ross, we see a number of cool buses. and again from this point, it looks like they're pulling in and this is a different vantage point. we should point out to our viewers that we don't have control of the cameras. jim cavanagh is still with me. jim, again, this is a sprawling high school in arlington, texas. so it is naturally going to take law enforcement longer to scour that school. so go door to door, to make sure that students are safe. what else is happening right now in that crass room? in that school, i should say. >> you know one of the first things you do is you have a report of eyewitnesss, and so there is student there's that know who the players are. so what you do is you say who is the shooter. they tell you who he is. kids know the run of these buildings. they know every door and every exit door, every hiding place, and so after the shooting if it unfolded as the witnesses described, the student could have run to hide somewhere, maybe to an exit door. the parkland school shooter left the building and was captured a few miles away. and actually left, so sms they they leave the premises, too. or they could be hiding and the police locate them. but the police will know the identity of the shooter. this is a big leap because a lot of times the shooters identity is not readily known. not until they're captured or shot or they commit suicide. but here the identity will be known, and him or her, we don't know if it is a boy or a girl, but the identity of the shooter will be known to the officers that get there quickly and the way it would unfold, the isd police, i'm sure they have school resource offices right on campus to respond, and they go in basically with a swat light. they're trying to locate, isolate, and evacuate. and the swat commander becomes the on scene commander to get it moving. they say the building was cleared. we only heard reports of two shots so far. if all of the students will hold tight, wait for the police commands, don't open the door unless you're sure it is the police, we could get through this without a whole lot of carnage. >> we see a caravan of school buses being lead to this high school being escorted by police there. we have seen roughly a half dodsen or so a few moments ago, but now we see even more school buses going there. presumably to get the kids out of that school. trying to reunite them with their families, but you see bus after bus. and jim but i also imagine that these cell phone that's are in high schools, i imagine these come in handy in a big big way in situations like these these days. >> our young people are so adept at using them and how quick they can type on those, you know, being a pinball man in a digital world, but they use these devices like with lightning speed, and they can communicate the whereabouts of the shooter, identify the shooter to the police, quickly to their parents, to outside sources, and that no doubt would have come to play in this case in is a great sign to see the school buses here. what they decided is that we can safely evacuate these children and bring them to the family reunification center which they located near by. to meet with their parents. that is a great sign. i think it looks to me like swat commanders have this in hand. whether or not the person is deceased, in custody, or located, this is a positive sign. they would not be bringing school buses here in this volume if there was any danger at all. swat would not allow it. this means they know it is safe, they can bring the children out, and bring them to the family reunification center. >> jim, we have covered enough of these together. we do not see law enforcement frantically running toward the school or frantically running from the school either. again, at this opponent the school is still reportedly on lock down amid this active shooter investigation, but the signs are right now that it is somewhat under control. i want to bring in retired seattle police chief and msnbc law enforcement analyst carmen best

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